Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: LePaul on November 17, 2005, 04:53:17 PM
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Back in Aces High 1, it wasnt unusal to see fuel porked down to 25% at certain front line bases.
Now in Aces High II, fuel doesnt seem to be hit at all yet ordinance seems to be consistently whacked. And its usually the same lone Typhoon driver strafing in and porking it at a few fields.
(And all sides are guilty of this, please dont take this as something only one side does.)
Is there any chance ordinace can be hardened to dissuade those who do this?
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Only if and when the FH porking gets addressed. Ground pounders want their eggs and fighter jocks want their planes. Don't see why we can't have both myself.
Oh yeah...strategery and w1nTehW@r...what was I thinking?
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If I remember correctly a Typhie can take 2 1000 lb bombs.
A P47N can take 2500 llbs of bombs and a bunch of rox.
Are you like suggesting maybe 3000 llbs of ordinace to take out a bases ordianace?
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From what Im seeing, they're straffing it, no bombs involved.
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Originally posted by LePaul
Is there any chance ordinace can be hardened to dissuade those who do this?
No.
Ammo and barracks are the only way to slow down the horde
Divebombing heavies are already beyond the point of absurdity as is being able to take out half the feild/town in a single pass.
Killing ord is the only way to protect the CV
And keeps GVs from being carpet bombed every 30 seconds
I would however like to see ordinence go down in increments up to and including zero availability based o how many bunkers are killed.
Say the less bunkers are up the lighter the bombs are that are available.
and zero bunkers = zero bombs
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Originally posted by LePaul
Now in Aces High II, fuel doesnt seem to be hit at all yet ordinance seems to be consistently whacked.
When fuel can only be brought down to 75% and cant be used as a valid stratigical target whats the use in hitting fuel?
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It's all cause and affect.
Closer bases = more furballs and more low alt bombers
More low alt bombers = more porked ordnance and troops
There is no arena that will be all things to all people. No matter what, there will be whining.
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LePaul, I am with you on this. I watched the same tiffie strafe down
the troops and ords at 3 bases last night. The reason he got away with
this is I am such a rotten shot in an AA gun.
The troops/bunkers need to fixed so that the only way to take them down
is bombs, rockets, tank guns 75mm HE or larger or ship guns, 5 in. or larger
no machine guns/20mm cannons.
Mike
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Just because someone porks your base dont whine LEARN TO RESUPPLY!
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IMO, the only real solution to solve the whole deal concerning ords/trps/barracks and etc etc strats, is to fundamentally change the strategic logistics concept of the game.
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...or better yet defend it. That's the whole purpose of a DEFCAP.
ack-ack
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if ya got a Tiffie Porkin yer Fieild take ya a Osty go park it right beside the Ords bunker and cook the Tiffie when he does in on it lol, Just a thought =]
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Is taking up a formation of empty B24's and heading to the nearest furball on the deck something you are having withdrawl's from? Is the extra time needed to fly from an adjacent base to pork the FH's distressing? Is that the real complaint, no more 500' bomber runs with the added bonus of luring fighters into a set of 'death star' bomber guns? Some fun that.
If someone is going to bomb from 5K or 10K, having ordinance at an adjacent base won't help. No ordinance at an adjacent base does cut down on 500ft bomber runs.
When some people, such as 990000, bomb fields just to pork the FH, others will jabo, just to pork ordinance! Having ordinance porking ability in four 20mm's, IMO, is great! Without even looking at a response, I know you feel differently. :mad:
One thing I have learned playing this game is that a certain percentage of players idea of 'fun' is to deliberately ruin others ideas of 'fun'! This isn't new, or news. For the record, LePaul, I don't consider you a butthead.
Regards,
Malta
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Originally posted by Wolf14
When fuel can only be brought down to 75% and cant be used as a valid stratigical target whats the use in hitting fuel?
With only 75% fuel those LA7s will run out of gas about the time they get to the end of the runway.
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Originally posted by stantond
One thing I have learned playing this game is that a certain percentage of players idea of 'fun' is to deliberately ruin others ideas of 'fun'! This isn't new, or news.
Plenty of fun to be had. If you get tired of your standard routine, ruining someone else's fun can be an enjoyable diversion. ;)
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Originally posted by me62
LePaul, I am with you on this. I watched the same tiffie strafe down
the troops and ords at 3 bases last night. The reason he got away with
this is I am such a rotten shot in an AA gun.
The troops/bunkers need to fixed so that the only way to take them down
is bombs, rockets, tank guns 75mm HE or larger or ship guns, 5 in. or larger
no machine guns/20mm cannons.
Mike
Not just any type of cannon rounds easily takes these things down.
It takes the big ones to take em down easily
In a tiffy I'd say yea they go down .
But try it in a 109F4 and usually you nead at least two passes to take out a singel bunker
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there is also another option.
Hotpad
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Originally posted by xxxxxxx
Is taking up a formation of empty B24's and heading to the nearest furball on the deck something you are having withdrawl's from? Is the extra time needed to fly from an adjacent base to pork the FH's distressing? Is that the real complaint, no more 500' bomber runs with the added bonus of luring fighters into a set of 'death star' bomber guns? Some fun that.
If someone is going to bomb from 5K or 10K, having ordinance at an adjacent base won't help. No ordinance at an adjacent base does cut down on 500ft bomber runs.
When some people, such as xxxxxx, bomb fields just to pork the FH, others will jabo, just to pork ordinance! Having ordinance porking ability in four 20mm's, IMO, is great! Without even looking at a response, I know you feel differently. :mad:
One thing I have learned playing this game is that a certain percentage of players idea of 'fun' is to deliberately ruin others ideas of 'fun'! This isn't new, or news. For the record, xxxxxx, I don't consider you a butthead.
Regards,
Xxxxx
The composition is horrible, but the sentiment is good.
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Originally posted by outbreak
Just because someone porks your base dont whine LEARN TO RESUPPLY!
ha ha ha... resupply??? half of the folks are too proud to leave the plane in the hanger and take a M3... there are a select few (including myself) that will run a M3... heck, thats the first thing that i do when i log in... i check the bases and run supplies for awhile..... i look at it this way... more supply runs... more perk points.... more tigers for me to lose... ha ha ha
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
The composition is horrible, but the sentiment is good.
I was going for 7th grade level. You think I missed it by much?
Regards,
Malta
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Gotta agree with Drediock here----when ya are getting steamrolled (by some certain country who operates as a large borg cube), porking barracks/ammo is the only viable way of stopping, or at least slowing, them. Most improbable that the rest of the steamrollEEs are gonna band together and fight the horde....no fun being beaten up by a half dozen tiffys and la7's every time ya up, and MOST folks in this game just wanna have their furballs and log, NOT join waves of jabos to attack undefended bases
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I have no problems with sides getting steam rolled..............the speed at which the front moves does not cause combat to stop............
Furthermore ordinance is used both in defence and attack..........
It does seem very unreal that ordinance is stored in buildings that burst into flame after being hit by a few rounds of 20mm................. or 2 x HE shells from a tank
This is an arena setting (albeit the default one)............HT could set it to 1000llbs at the drop of a hat.......... no upgrade.............no patch.
Even at this setting 2 x fighter bombers could take the ordinance out at any field (and only 1 at small fields) but at least it would present some challenge to the Pork.
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Successful games have play balance, so no one prtion dominates the others. In this game, every tactical move has a countermove. Rather than complain about ordinance porking (or troop porking, FH porking, strat porking, GV porking, etc, etc) -- why not just use the antidote? If you cant get bombs: rearm, resupply, or up from farther out.
You want ord? There are ways to get it. It may be unwise to ask for game revisions, because strngthening one part of the game harms others -- and if the balance is lost, people will get bored and stop playing. You could end up with no one to bomb.
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Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance.
That is all.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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OK Lev, fine, ordnance. Like spellchecker has ANY place in the BBS discourse.
EDIT: This was supposed to be light and clever, but sounds a little peevish. Sorry if misconstrued, just trying to be amusing.
PS you left out the second "n" in ordINance several times. :lol
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:aok
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I think some structures should be more resistant to strafing. Fuel tanks and AA fine. But hardened structures or buildings shouldn't go 'Pop' as easily. Thats what bombs are for.
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Again, Virage, remember that the structures on bases arent supposed to model the way bases really are. They're icons for game functions, as applied to the capability of a single base.
So the question in AH2 isnt ever really "could an ordnance bunker go down that easily?"
It should be, "is the balance (between base effectiveness and the methods of blunting that effectiveness) out of whack?"
I honestly dont think it really is. Bases are captured, bases are defended, maps are won -- there isnt any foolproof, reliable way to "beat" the system. (OK, having read Channel 200 -- nothing is FOOL proof, but you know what I mean.) I dont think anything needs to be changed, except maybe our strategic behavior and our expectations.
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you want to stop the easy pork? then turn ack accuracy up. within 1k of field AA should be hyper accurate, not the 1 hit in 4 passes like now.
AA is a joke as it is now. maybe we need quad 20s and quad 50s and lots of them on fields. make it require buffs or multiple fighters attacking @ 1 time to deack a field and/or pork fields n survive.
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I still want to hear the rationale that it is okay to pork FHs but not okay to pork troops/ordinance. Nobody has tried yet. There have been a few weak attempts about the hardness of the various structures but not the concept that one is okay and the other is not.
The mentality of this is the issue. Fighter jocks get frustrated when there are no FHs avalable on the front lines so they take a Dora/Typhie up and take out the ord. I see no difference in these tactics whatsoever. It is simply an attempt to restrict the other folks from opposing you. While that IS in fact a valid strategerie for winning the war, it is also done quite often without base capture in mind and simply as a way of greifing other players.
Just admit it, both sides of the equation are equally to blame. I don't know the solution but I do recognize the problem for what it is...folks who would rather pi$$ off other folks than engage them in simulated air combat.
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I can agree with Edbert and say that as long as there are bombers in the game then someone will think its necesary to take out FHs to help take a base. That used to be the tactic 4 years ago when I started playing. Take Lancs to 15-20k, use laser bombsite, drop 2k of bombs on each FH and then take out the VH and deack and capture. I dont totally agree with your statement
folks who would rather pi$$ off other folks than engage them in simulated air combat
I dont think all the bomber pilots are trying to ruin the furball, (theres probably a couple that do it on purpose to pi$$ someone off) they want to capture the base, and as long as there are enemy planes in the area they will do what ever they can to get rid of those planes. Including bombing the FH's.
The counter to that is taking out BHs and/or Ordnance on the opposing fields so they cant bomb the FHs. Thats perfectly acceptable to me also.
However I also agree with Whels, we need more ack,(twice as much) and quad 20's and 40's would be nice. FHs and ordnance bunkers need to be harder. Most bunkers I've seen are built with 10" concret walls and roofs and then covered with 2 feet of earth. .50, 20mm and 30mm should not be able to take out a bunker like that, nothing short of a 1,000lb bomb to take out ordnance. And all though I think FH's should be harder I cant not think of a rational why to explain why you shouldnt be able to blow one up with a 500 or 1,000lb bomb. I would like to see it take 5,000lb to take out a FH or double the number of FH's or add reventments where aircraft are parked. Also increase the hardness of the CV's say to 18,000lb to sink a CV and within a certain time limit
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Originally posted by Simaril
It should be, "is the balance (between base effectiveness and the methods of blunting that effectiveness) out of whack?"
I'm suggesting that the game is imbalanced by a lack of hardness on base strat targets. It allows a fighter to pork a field too easily imo.
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Originally posted by whels
you want to stop the easy pork? then turn ack accuracy up. within 1k of field AA should be hyper accurate, not the 1 hit in 4 passes like now.
AA is a joke as it is now. maybe we need quad 20s and quad 50s and lots of them on fields. make it require buffs or multiple fighters attacking @ 1 time to deack a field and/or pork fields n survive.
Been saying it a long time, would really cut down on the pork-n-vulch gang.
Make ack Max leathality and make all puffy ack mannable/killable only.
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Whels, dont forget we used to have higher Ack accuracy a couple of years ago and a lot of people complained about super uber ack and eagle eyed gunners that could take out a plane at 3k. and the ack got toned down. Last night I deacked a base and only got one ping on me. on one gun position I flew straight at it, didnt even jink or move from side to side. Ack never touched me
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Only read the 1st couple o posts but i think It's a great idea to harden the ammo "bunkers". FHs come back up quickly not so with ord. At least that way 1 dweeb in a uber ride can't take it all down. Everybody gets there fun.
While we're at it, harden the CVs some.:aok
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The obvious answer?
Remove all ordinance and fuel from bases and place the disabling/reducing for both back to the ordinance and fuel factories inland. That way, if you want to pork ordinance and fuel, you have to organize a sortie inland and bomb the factories.
But that's just my opinion.
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Originally posted by Mister Fork
The obvious answer?
Remove all ordinance and fuel from bases and place the disabling/reducing for both back to the ordinance and fuel factories inland. That way, if you want to pork ordinance and fuel, you have to organize a sortie inland and bomb the factories.
But that's just my opinion.
Sounds like a fun solution -- guys who like the strategic (as opposed to tactical) elements of the game havent had much impact of late. The current factory strat system supplies points, but the impact on capture is indirect enough, and dealyed enough, that it isnt very gratifying.
With your suggestion, the buff guys could have a huge impact on base capture without dropping hangars. We might actually see less furballer frustration, because buffers' activities wouldnt have to take away the dogfighters' fun. The capture guys might find themselves escorting a raid, or upping en masse to intercept one (like happens with HQ raids), rather than rushing around porking ord/troops at a half dozen bases.
This idea wouldnt hurt any of the core constituencies, and woudl reward behavior that comes closer to "historical" situations. I think it would be a winner all around.
But, I have a feeling its too dramatic a departure from current practice for HTC to try it.
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At first I read Fork's idea and thought it would create more problems, then I read Simaril's and think this might actually work. But may be difficult to coad, especially with HTC working on TOD.
With this system it would appear that bombers would not need to necessarily attack bases, but attack strat targets.
If I'm a furballer then bombers attacking strat targets and reducing ord and troops has no affect on my style of play. I play to engage in air combat and dont participate in base capture or winning the war.
If I'm a strat player and play to capture bases and win the war then I have to protect my strats and also bomb the enemy's strats to help win the war.
I could see a strategy of attacking enemy bases but only to take out the Bomber hangers from any bases that are near my strats.
Bombers hit strat targets like Ordnance Factories, for every 25% of damage, reduce bombs tonnage and types available,
ie:
Ordnance Factory 100% - all bomb sizes and rockets available
Ordnance Factory 75% - 500lb and > and rockets available
Ordnance Factory 50% - 250lb and > and rockets available
Ordnance Factory 25% - only Rockets available.
Ordnance Factory 0% - no ordnance
Bombers hit strat targets like Barracks/Troop facilities, for every 25% of damage, reduce Troops available
Troop Facilities 100% - 10 troops available
Troop Facilities 75% - 8 Troops available
Troop Facilities 50% - 5 Troops available
Troop Facilities 25% - 3 Troops available
Troop Facilities 0% - no troops available
with this damage + availability you can still wage war just not as effectively. Less troops available then you need more goons to transport troops. Smaller bombs? then you need more bombers to attack targets.
Ordnance factory will regenerate with time or players can resupply similar to HQ repair.
This still does not prevent the bomber type from bombing FH's if they really want to so I would still be in favor of increasing the hardness of hangers, double the ack and raise its lethality, add mannable 88's for air and ground targets.
Maybe it would work and maybe it wont. We have to have our dreams...
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MajorTom & Simaril, I think we're onto something here.
I like the idea of reducing the troops, fuel, ordinance, and others for bombing the large factories.
That way, those who furball, always will furball and porking bases is no longer an issue - you gotta pork the country - or at least, earn it.
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Porking Ordinance? How did that get passed? Did you contact your councilperson?
A rule established by authority; a permanent rule of
action; a statute, law, regulation, rescript, or accepted
usage; an edict or decree; esp., a local law enacted by a
municipal government; as, a municipal ordinance
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I think there is a solution here but I wouldnt include Fuel, unless you mean drop tanks for extended ranges. Limiting fuel would impact both the furballers and the strat players. mostly the furballers
The only setup with Fuel you could use that would lessen the impact for fighters was if fuel was distributed by gallons.
ie: if Fuel is 100% then all planes get full tanks. if Fuel is 75% then only 800 gals of fuel available per plane. 50% then only 600 gals available, etc.
For me what was always wierd about fuel porkage was the percentages.
Fuel is down to 75% so a Yak or LA would have less fuel than a P-51 or a P-47. Even more lopsided 75% fuel doesnt even affect a bomber, it only affects the fighters. its worse when it was 25%, some planes are pretty worthless at 25% fuel availability, but even at 25% fuel a Bomber can still fly out 1 or 2 sectors and drop bombs.
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In real life, your fuel factories would be a very valuable asset to protect ~ if a raid was upped, the consequences of not defending that factory would have an immense impact on your ability to do future battles. I like it alot. Every army and airforce feeds on it's ability to put fuel in the tanks.
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I agree that ".In real life, your fuel factories would be a very valuable asset to protect "
But as Lazs and others have pointed out before, for at least the last 4 years I've played, this aint real life.
I agree that "the consequences of not defending that factory would have an immense impact on your ability to do future battles. "
Which might work well in the CT but porking fuel in the MA will impact the strat players and the tactical (furballers) players, which was one of the points we were discussing was a way to balance out the needs for the strat players and the tactical players
I personally dont like the idea of someone having the ability to go to one or two spots on the map and reduce the fuel available for everybody.
Fuel factory damage in the CT might be a good idea, but I dont think its good for the MA
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Originally posted by MajTom
Last night I deacked a base and only got one ping on me. on one gun position I flew straight at it, didnt even jink or move from side to side. Ack never touched me
Happens to me all the time...from the Ack/Osti end. The Bandit flys directly at me and I fire and fire and if he doesn't kill me he goes 20 feet over my head. Heck, I have had them fly right into my Osti without being able to hit them. Of course they go down, but not from gunfire. And this is from somebody who has lots of hours in Ostis/Ack. Much more than any other aspect of this game.
Last night I could usually only up one Osti per base because I would up, VH goes down, Osti goes down. Change base. rinse and repeat. In a lot of cases the FHs were up but nobody was upping fighters. The VH is the primary bomb target, tank target. If anything needs hardening, it's the VH.
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Some have brought up some good ideas, some have made this a complaint that anything that affects fighters is a bad thing.
I wasnt suggesting this as a bomber limitation as some are using it for. I noticed it most often whenever GVs were nearby and I couldnt equip my P-38G with rockets and bombs.
Edbert: The flying Ive done with my squad (Wings of Terror)...we havent taken all the fighters down in a long long time. Its mostly been to move a CAP over the field to keep it supressed, JABO the town and try to get the goon in. Then, once the field is ours, everything is available minus the VH, which is something we take down first. I havent seen the FH porking you're referring to.
But as others pointed out, the strat system isnt working well.
You cant kill a field's fuel supply to 0% (and that would further annoy the fighter guys). But, in a few swift passes thru the somewhat inefective AI ack, the ordinance can be brought down all over the battlefront by one aircraft with cannon.
Im not suggesting hardening it because its unfair buffs can come in NOE and ruin your field. I'm simply saying its pretty unbeleivable one aircraft can disable something so easily.
That's all. Not a whine. Just a suggestion about upping its hardness. If someone ones to pork every fuel or ordinace along the front....I would think it would require something beefier.
Peace!
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As long as the 110G can destroy FHs or just about any other ground object in one or two passes tops, perhaps we should defer any discussion about the ease of disabling ordnance. The 110 serves as a perfect substitute for bombers when somebody disables ordnance.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Just make the damage model for obj like the gv model. Some obj will be armored so as only bombs or he shells will damage. This will end the cannon toting fighters disabling everything.
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Why not just make every friggen thing invincible, including the planes.
Then we can either have air races or go play volley ball in happy town. :)
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"Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. Ordnace. Ordnance. Ordnance. "
That is all.
-- Todd/Leviathn
Ordnace..................... lol
Hiya Lev :)
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In less words it seems that a group of player, maybe not the majority, but a well listened bunch at least, wants this simulation as a neverending turn and shot, and turn and shot, and again and again......
There is no need for structures, no need for rwys, maybe no needs for landscape, trees, they need only a space to ride in the merry go round and a button to fire; better if the map is reduced to a room confined by walls, so the enemy won't run straight for long.......once this was a simulation trying to recreate at least some aspects of real life, nowadays the password is "this aint real life".
And still I'm asking again what's the purpouse of DA???
Wasn't it created for duels??
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Stegor, you've been here since 2000 and you don't yet know the difference between a duel and a furball? Or was that a troll? Regarding the initial aspects of your post...I have not seen anyone on either side of the discussion suggest that there should be none of the things you listed. Perhaps you really were trolling or simply not reading carefully.
Assuming you were serious let me try to explain what I see here. There are folks who like to carry eggs and blow stuff up, nothing wrong with that whatsoever, it is a large aspect of this game and should not be eliminated. It is frustrating for these players to find that a significant number of their bases do not have ordinance because a SINGLE fighter pilot has taken out their ability to play the way they want to.
Is that a fair assesment LePaul?
On "the other side" of this discussion there are folks who like to fly fighters and blow other players up, nothing wrong with that whatsoever, it is a large aspect of this game and should not be eliminated. It is frustrating for these players to find that a significant number of their bases do not have FH because a SINGLE bomber pilot has taken out their ability to play the way they want to.
See the problem here?
We cannot and should not remove destroyable objects, killing them is part of the game and part of base capture.Killing them accross a large front is also part of strategery and war-winning. I could argue that we need to make it harder for a single pilot to close so many airfields (ord by a fighter or FHs by a bomber) on a single sortie, but I cannot think of a way to prevent that which does not also introduce other problems.
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Originally posted by LePaul
You cant kill a field's fuel supply to 0% (and that would further annoy the fighter guys). But, in a few swift passes thru the somewhat inefective AI ack, the ordinance can be brought down all over the battlefront by one aircraft with cannon.
Im not suggesting hardening it because its unfair buffs can come in NOE and ruin your field. I'm simply saying its pretty unbeleivable one aircraft can disable something so easily.
Peace!
LOL Feild ack loves me. Particularly the lazer variety.
But it shouldnt be too surprising that 1 aircraft should be able to take out an ammo bunker in a single pass.
Hell one man with a hand granade or a well placed match could do considerable damage to an ammo bunker or ammo dump.
Ordinance is only slightly volitile when exposed to other exploding things.
Personally I'd like to see chain reaction explosions when the ammo bunkers explode LOL
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
As long as the 110G can destroy FHs or just about any other ground object in one or two passes tops, perhaps we should defer any discussion about the ease of disabling ordnance. The 110 serves as a perfect substitute for bombers when somebody disables ordnance.
-- Todd/Leviathn
Without eggs I've never been able to destroy a FH with just the guns of a 110 in even two long passes unless its already been damaged by something else first
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Never? Either you havent tried it or you've got really bad aim.
It can be done in one pass, here's 1 and a few hits on 2nd pass to finnish it off. Done off line, no different from MA settings. If you dont beleive me you can try it yourself.
http://www.furballunderground.com/freehost/files/1/fh.ahf
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The problem is that the MA is starting to approach a situation of "Suppose the had a war and nobody came". What I'm observing is that the first "defense" of a threatened sector is to pork ord and troops two levels deep on the attackers side of the lines. This is virtually impossible to prevent, for all the reasons folks have stated here.
Sure, it is good tactics to prevent your attacker from having the resources needed to press his own attack. But what I'm now seeing is that the defenders more or less abandon bases and even whole sectors once the enemy troops are porked. Which tends to make the game rather futile to play for everyone but the pork-runners.
Easiest fix? Reduce the down time on troops and ord to 10 minutes. So, yeah, a Tiffy can neuter a field in two passes - but if it has to all be done again 10 minutes later then they've delayed the offensive, not halted it completely, and the front stays alive.
-DoK
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10 minutes, yeah right.
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Originally posted by Morpheus
10 minutes, yeah right.
Pick a number, then. Having an entire front stagnant for an hour because of one or two pork-runners is absurd.
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Edbert, you are here from 99, well tell me, can you say this Sim is the same of that time? Is people flying the same manner? Are the players involved in all the aspects of the game like it was?
I am not trolling, I see a continuous amount of requests to make fighter fly more easily and safely.
You can't destroy fuel, even harder to destroy Hangar, requests to harden ordnance, requests to harden CV so you can't interrupt planes upping, requests to give less efficacy to naval guns cause they interfere with furballs or something.....this is not a troll.
More this situation generates more confusion trying to compensate things for the "other side complaints", so for hardened structures, we have had a less effective ack..... the result of all this is here, strategy has gone, lonely porkers flying useless missions, bombers unused or used only for NOE missions, suicide mission everywhere, maps stretched, but with airfield neared each other, a cloud of fighters eternally whirling just above grass..and so on...
Maybe the pattern of the AH player has changed, but how much can you last playing again and again one only aspect of the game?
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Pick a number, then. Having an entire front stagnant for an hour because of one or two pork-runners is absurd.
Um, resuply. Either via M3 or C47.
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Originally posted by Morpheus
Um, resuply. Either via M3 or C47.
When troops and ord are porked two levels deep that's not likely. If this is the answer, it should be worth a big pile of perks to do resupply runs.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Pick a number, then. Having an entire front stagnant for an hour because of one or two pork-runners is absurd.
I'm sure rshubert will be along shortly to tell us how it's not the pork-runner's fault but rather a failure by the side that was porked to provide a defensive CAP to stop him before he does his dirty porking deed.
Except he probably won't, because in this case the porking issue revolves around something that affects him rather than others.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
If this is the answer, it should be worth a big pile of perks to do resupply runs.
I'd be in favor of this.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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I totally disagree with the initial purposal.
Instead of having ord unporkable the fuel should be porkable to 25 % again.
Porked fuel should not mean everyone gets half fuel but instead the amount of fuel available to take with you.
With fuel at 75% max fuel per fighter being 150 Gallons, 50% 100gallons and 25 50 gallons.
I think its totally inappropiate to give 75percent to all, while that is 80gallons on a 109 and 300 gallons (or something around that, not sure of the correct amnount) in a P47.
For bombers use a diffrent value, but same amount for all.
Apart from that the whole base-taking needs a rework in form of front-line-taking together with valueable strats back in the country which dont come back up within minutes so its worthwhile bombing em. Something like having resource points per side, gaining resources with cities, primary and secondary factories, oil fields, mines and resource ships (coming from the off), Storing them in depots.
Once one country runs out it lost and the map gets reset, where loosing resources never hampers any plane availability in general but there are 2 ac factories per country for the 2 most effectively used plane (aka fighters with most kills).
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
LOL Feild ack loves me. Particularly the lazer variety.
But it shouldnt be too surprising that 1 aircraft should be able to take out an ammo bunker in a single pass.
Hell one man with a hand granade or a well placed match could do considerable damage to an ammo bunker or ammo dump.
Ordinance is only slightly volitile when exposed to other exploding things.
Personally I'd like to see chain reaction explosions when the ammo bunkers explode LOL
Heh, I seem to be on that minority that AI ack hones in on lethally too! :)
Ok, if you want a hand grenade level hardness on ordinance, then lets be fair and make fuel something that can go to zero. So instead of knocking down Fighter, Vehicle and bomber hangars, lone fighters can prowl the arena and take out fuels everywhere. Then when this happens, revisit my suggestion about hardening the ordinance....and maybe you'll see my point.
Its not about shutting down bombers and preventing hangars elsewhere from being downed. Its simply a matter of one player having so much affect on the gameplay. If it took a lot of effort by several people to do it, ok, I could buy that.
Ultimately, I dont care either way. I'm just pointing out that it seems pretty remarkable one player can bring ord to 0% but fuel cant.
And if, at the worst, Ive pointed out the strat needs a few tweaks, well....cool :)
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Originally posted by LePaul
[...]
Its not about shutting down bombers and preventing hangars elsewhere from being downed. Its simply a matter of one player having so much affect on the gameplay. If it took a lot of effort by several people to do it, ok, I could buy that.
[...]
Exactly.
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Originally posted by LePaul
Its not about shutting down bombers and preventing hangars elsewhere from being downed. Its simply a matter of one player having so much affect on the gameplay. If it took a lot of effort by several people to do it, ok, I could buy that.
One player in a formation of Lancs can take out all of the fighter hangars at most fields. Do you agree that this, too, represents an unbalanced effect on gameplay?
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Apples and oranges, why are you dragging in buffs and fighter hangars into a ordinance hardening issue?
You're also being very narrow in your scope. One big buff, at a small airfield, could do what you say. Not at a larger field.
Get off your anti buff soapbox, that's not what this is about.
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Originally posted by LePaul
Get off your anti buff soapbox, that's not what this is about.
This is not anti-buff, so quit your whining. What I'm pointing out, and what you completely fail to understand, is that the door swings both ways. I agree that a single player, by destroying ordnance, can affect gameplay in an unbalanced manner for buffers and jabo folks. I also recognize that a single person in a formation of Lancs can adversely affect gameplay for those who fly fighters as well. That's not apples to oranges, and it's impossible for you to claim as much. These two things clearly go hand-in-hand.
On the bright side for ground attack players, the 110 can fulfill the same roll as most Jabo because it sports an incredibly destructive guns package. That does not, however, help the level bomber jocks.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by LePaul
One big buff, at a small airfield, could do what you say. Not at a larger field.
Wrong.
B17's-24, and Lancs can.
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More likely a flight of Lancs would just tear the runways to hell and render the field useless for all air traffic. But that's not important right now ...
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
The problem is that the MA is starting to approach a situation of "Suppose the had a war and nobody came". What I'm observing is that the first "defense" of a threatened sector is to pork ord and troops two levels deep on the attackers side of the lines. This is virtually impossible to prevent, for all the reasons folks have stated here.
Sure, it is good tactics to prevent your attacker from having the resources needed to press his own attack. But what I'm now seeing is that the defenders more or less abandon bases and even whole sectors once the enemy troops are porked. Which tends to make the game rather futile to play for everyone but the pork-runners.
Easiest fix? Reduce the down time on troops and ord to 10 minutes. So, yeah, a Tiffy can neuter a field in two passes - but if it has to all be done again 10 minutes later then they've delayed the offensive, not halted it completely, and the front stays alive.
-DoK
Actually what I see is the attackers abandon the whole area not the defenders.
Typically those attackers are trying to horde bases that are or are next to undefended.
Me being one that hates the horde warriors upon seeing this make it my solemn duty to up and pork the barracks at as many nearby feilds as possible. Thus forceing the horde to either go to some other undefended area whereby I do it all over again or attack a feild that has at least some sort of defence going for it at which point I leave it alone.
the main problem I have with the hordewarriors is as soon as they meet any kind of real resistance they stop and go someplace where there isnt any.
By porking the troops in areas where there arent any defenders I'm doing them a favor by makin them earn the bases they take as opposed to playing solitare tic tac toe
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I like buffs
when they are burning:)
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Originally posted by stegor
Edbert, you are here from 99, well tell me, can you say this Sim is the same of that time? Is people flying the same manner? Are the players involved in all the aspects of the game like it was?
Not even close my friend, not even close. Most of the changes are for the better though IMHO, the vast majority. When I started there were five or six planes and 50-75 player on during prime time. The only thing better about the game then in my opinion was there was little (none?) of the other players acting like 12 years olds and purposely trying to ruin another player's ability to fly his plane of choice.
Originally posted by stegor
I am not trolling, I see a continuous amount of requests to make fighter fly more easily and safely.
You can't destroy fuel, even harder to destroy Hangar, requests to harden ordnance, requests to harden CV so you can't interrupt planes upping, requests to give less efficacy to naval guns cause they interfere with furballs or something.....this is not a troll.
More this situation generates more confusion trying to compensate things for the "other side complaints", so for hardened structures, we have had a less effective ack..... the result of all this is here, strategy has gone, lonely porkers flying useless missions, bombers unused or used only for NOE missions, suicide mission everywhere, maps stretched, but with airfield neared each other, a cloud of fighters eternally whirling just above grass..and so on...
Maybe the pattern of the AH player has changed, but how much can you last playing again and again one only aspect of the game?
I pretty much agree with everything you wrote there. My only issue with LePaul's request is that he want to make it harder for a lone fighter to take away his ability to carry eggs but does not want to remove the ability for a sinlge buff to take away my ability to fly a fighter.
Again, IN MY OPINION, this is a childish request, and just another indication of how low the sportsmanship aspect of this game has fallen.
EDIT: For the record, in case anyone misunderstood. I do not have a problem with closing the FHs during a field capture attempt (although a strong CAP makes more sense and renders the captured base both useable and defendable) or porking ord to keep a CV alive. Those are legitimate aspects of the strat/land-grab/war-winning game. My issue is with the widespread porking of forward bases just to kill off a front.
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I've seen alot of great ideas in this thread. MAybe HT can pull some adjustments out of it assuming they agree there is a need.
With more players on most of the time, and a higher level of accuracy on bomb drops, I do believe there is a need for adjustment.
I would caution that the factories only idea is risky because potentially 1 squad could remove ordinance (for example) from and entire country in one good pass. I think the hardness is thre better approach.
A good step was moving the FHs out of line so that 1 formation of B26s can't flatten them in one pass. More is needed however and I hope HT agrees.
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Originally posted by Edbert
I pretty much agree with everything you wrote there. My only issue with LePaul's request is that he want to make it harder for a lone fighter to take away his ability to carry eggs but does not want to remove the ability for a sinlge buff to take away my ability to fly a fighter.
Again, IN MY OPINION, this is a childish request, and just another indication of how low the sportsmanship aspect of this game has fallen.
Wow, could you make this a bit *more* of a personal attack? Please? I dont quite feel villified completely yet, Edbert.
Im impresed how you've turned a simple idea for hardening ordinance into how I am now the evil source for all things that make Fighter Hangars go down. Its a strat discussion. And clearly, anyone who doesnt agree with you is a very poor sport. Im sorry to say, that reflects very poorly on yourself.
I mean, call me kooky, but its just a game...and I was just floating a suggestion. No one here has called you childish or commented on your sportsmanship as a result of your ideas.
Perhaps the old addage "If you cant say anything nice, dont say anything at all" should apply?
If you want to comment on the ideas posted, have at. But if all you intend to do is flame the posters for not agreeing, well...back away from the keyboard, count to 10 and get a grip, dude.
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Originally posted by GooseAW
I've seen alot of great ideas in this thread. MAybe HT can pull some adjustments out of it assuming they agree there is a need.
With more players on most of the time, and a higher level of accuracy on bomb drops, I do believe there is a need for adjustment.
I would caution that the factories only idea is risky because potentially 1 squad could remove ordinance (for example) from and entire country in one good pass. I think the hardness is thre better approach.
A good step was moving the FHs out of line so that 1 formation of B26s can't flatten them in one pass. More is needed however and I hope HT agrees.
expanding on the factory idea.
ok each country could have 1 major factory per catagory(ammo/fuel/troops) near HQ, with more supplimental support fatories(supply depots) in each zone.
now if u only kill the zone supply depots, fields go down to 50%, cause u still have some supply coming in from the main factory. if u only kill the factory but not the supply depot maybe 75% available. now if u kill both
then reduce (fuel/ammo/troops) quantity available down to 25%.
make the factory complex huge and hard to kill, supply depots large but easier to kill.
have ammo/fuel/troop bunkers on field when they go down, the supply depot closest to field will send out a supply convoy. if it makes the field
then it resupplies the field to full up. BUT if u interdict the convoy
field is not resupplied. give those mossies and jabos reason to convoy hunt ! same thing with trains from main factories to depots!
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Originally posted by LePaul
Wow, could you make this a bit *more* of a personal attack? Please? I dont quite feel villified completely yet, Edbert.
Im impresed how you've turned a simple idea for hardening ordinance into how I am now the evil source for all things that make Fighter Hangars go down. Its a strat discussion. And clearly, anyone who doesnt agree with you is a very poor sport. Im sorry to say, that reflects very poorly on yourself.
I mean, call me kooky, but its just a game...and I was just floating a suggestion. No one here has called you childish or commented on your sportsmanship as a result of your ideas.
Perhaps the old addage "If you cant say anything nice, dont say anything at all" should apply?
If you want to comment on the ideas posted, have at. But if all you intend to do is flame the posters for not agreeing, well...back away from the keyboard, count to 10 and get a grip, dude.
Guess I hit a nerve.
You seem to be the one taking things way to seriously and definitely too personally rather than me. I merely pointed out your selfishness, the truth hurts sometimes I guess.
If the terms childish and selfish are incorrectly placed (they are not insults they are descriptive terms to anyone who can remove their ego from a rational dicussion) then what would you call a request to change the game in ways that would hurt other players just to make you happy?
Okay to unpersonalize it then...in my opinion ANYONE who wants the game changed and other players penalized in order to make themselves happy is childish and a poor sport. That also applies to furballers who want indestructible FHs. Is that better?
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I dont know where to begin....so Ill just roll my eyes :rolleyes:
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A kitten has been born.
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meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeow.
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Originally posted by Sandman
It's all cause and affect.
Closer bases = more furballs and more low alt bombers
More low alt bombers = more porked ordnance and troops
There is no arena that will be all things to all people. No matter what, there will be whining.
.........
Maybe not, Simple fix to all this crap ? Sure , just 3 small Islands, 3 small bases, that can not be crippled or killed, far enough away from the rest of the bases, and independent of, and have no impact whatsoever on, the outcome of the struggle for the total war on the map.
Simple as that....
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I dont like how easy it is to pork stuf such as fuel, ammo and barracks.
Bombs should be required to despatch these items not single straffing runs...........
Particularly with respect to ammo......
My view
Ammo should be in hardened bunkers requiring 1500 to 2000lbs each
Fuel should be tougher than now at least 1000lbs or there should be double the number of fuel stores per field currently.
Barracks should not support supplies...........hangers should support supplies.
Barracks should support only troops............
at air fields these should be considered para's and so there will be less of them. (probably the same as now)
at ports and gv fields these should be considered infantry or marines and the number of barrack objects should be increased 5 fold if not more IMO.
As for game play and strat considerations I still believe that the airfield should be removed from the land grab objective. A system where towns, ports and cities defended by Gv type fields have to be captured would move attention away from the airfield. Airfields should be gained or lost when their logistic supply routes are gained or lost through the capture of towns, ports and cities. In this model rides are always available but strat decides the availability/replenishment rate of drunks, supplies, fuel and ord..............capture points are never at fields but deep in towns, cities or ports.
a % of destroyed town buildings (not all of them) has to be achieved before capture is possible. There would be big towns(cities) and small towns (as now) as well as towns at ports.
when a field is evacuated due to loss of all logistic supply routes then the field remains dead for a set time (1 or 2 minutes?) before the other side can use it.
With the exception of this dead time opposing fighter forces can always be at adjacent fields whilst the furball is not mixed with the land grab unless its a consequence of the land grab.
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The problem with making everything "harder" is that it encourages the horde mentality. It's a catch 22.
Edit to add: I do agree that you shouldn't be able to strafe anything down.
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Originally posted by DipStick
The problem with making everything "harder" is that it encourages the horde mentality. It's a catch 22.
And hurts those being horded,
Leave it the way it is.
bombers shouldnt be taking off from front line bases anyway
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I like Tilt's idea but it'd take some serious time to implement.
I agree that heavy bombers using froward and/or smaller fields doesn't make much sense.
I disagree that ord/bar porking is only done to stop The Horde - when I checked in last night Rooks were the smallest side and along one front our barracks were porked 3 bases deep. As has been stated by others, the ease with which one lone player can completely stall an entire front of the arena for a very extended period of time is an imbalance.
Having more barracks and ammo depots makes some sense, but that will take time to implement (modify maps).
I think a quick fix is possible, something which could be quickly put into place which wouldn't require reworking maps or retooling lots of host code. Maybe a combination of fixes. Some ideas (most mentioned already):
- Shorten the repair timer on bar/ord.
- Big whopping perk bonus for resupplying a base.
- Taking down ord only affects bombs, rockets still available for dealing w/GV's.
- Taking down bar reduces the lift capacity by half - so you need 2 goons/m3s to capture. (To those who say "that won't stop the Horde" ... count how many times in a night you hear "Anyone got a goon for this field?" ... now imagine that it takes 2 goons.)
- Harden bar/ord so that they can't be porked by cannon fire alone.
These are easy to implement (based on what I know of the host code) and could have an immediate impact on keeping fronts from stalling out because of the compulsive habits of a few players.
-DoK
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I don't know what time you logged on "last night" or what time zone "fornicalia" is in but the rooks where the horde last night! :D
At one point it was like 230 rooks V 140 or so on other sides! Not a whine was just the first time I've seen that lopsided a count in a while.
As for leaving the rockets up, there just plain worthless against hvy armor anymore.
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Originally posted by CHECKERS
.........
Maybe not, Simple fix to all this crap ? Sure , just 3 small Islands, 3 small bases, that can not be crippled or killed, far enough away from the rest of the bases, and independent of, and have no impact whatsoever on, the outcome of the struggle for the total war on the map.
Simple as that....
Sounds like the FFA area in the DA.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
And hurts those being horded,
Leave it the way it is.
bombers shouldnt be taking off from front line bases anyway
...and "front line" bases are usually separated by more than just 30 miles.
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Originally posted by GooseAW
I don't know what time you logged on "last night" or what time zone "fornicalia" is in but the rooks where the horde last night! :D
At one point it was like 230 rooks V 140 or so on other sides! Not a whine was just the first time I've seen that lopsided a count in a while.
As for leaving the rockets up, there just plain worthless against hvy armor anymore.
El Lay is PST. So I guess I checked in around midnite on the East coast.
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yup, over 230 rooks on last night.
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Originally posted by CHECKERS
.........
Maybe not, Simple fix to all this crap ? Sure , just 3 small Islands, 3 small bases, that can not be crippled or killed, far enough away from the rest of the bases, and independent of, and have no impact whatsoever on, the outcome of the struggle for the total war on the map.
Simple as that....
In a seperate arena so there is no interaction with others not of your faith. Out of sight, out of mind. You don't have to worry about the dirty little war and everybody else doesn't have to see your indestructable little sandbox.
Simple as that.
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Originally posted by Lye-El
In a seperate arena so there is no interaction with others not of your faith. Out of sight, out of mind. You don't have to worry about the dirty little war and everybody else doesn't have to see your indestructable little sandbox.
Simple as that.
How would what CHECKERs said effect you in anyway? It wouldn't. I think it's funny how you guys constantly tell us to go to the DA. Why is CHECKERs request so unreasonable that you had to type the same old worn out phrase stated above? You know they also have a nice long strip in there specifically for people to kill the toolsheds. If donut tells us anything it's that given the chance to be at FT or winning the war, many prefer FT. So maybe all the toolshedders should go ahead and hop in the DA. That way, you guys can dive bomb and blow yourselfs up to your hearts conteint. Oh wait, you won't do that b/c you'd have no ones fun to ruin:aok
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Well, it could also be more people were at FT because after clamping an enemy base for capture they found that there weren't any troops within 30 miles.
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Originally posted by DipStick
Edit to add: I do agree that you shouldn't be able to strafe anything down.
Agreed
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What always gets me in these discussions is the lame excuses people advance for keeping a flawed system in place. "Why don't you resupply" (why, so another single typhie can come in two minutes later and pork again?) It's the only way of slowing down the horde (Well, if you can't get your act together and defend your bases when an obvious push is on, then the horde shouldn't be slowed down). Why don't you defend your bases (If the troops/ord were hardened, it would make sense to defend a base. You may not be able to take a typhie out on his first pass, but you probably could on the second. But with one pass attacks, all the odds are in the favor of the attacker).
There really is no reason why a single plane should be able to take down troops and ord in a single pass.(Unless of course you count encouraging furballing and discouraging anyone who enjoys playing the game with an eye toward flying buffs or capturing bases). Harden them to the point where they require multiple passes and you do encourage all the things that the pro-porkers claim is the responsibilty of the defenders _ resupply and sustained defense. Keeping the way it is now, keeps AH as a porkers paradise.
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If I hear one more furballer on a base CAP tell me to not drop ords on a FH I swear to God I'll scream.
Check that, I'll scream after I drop the FH's.
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Originally posted by Baine
There really is no reason why a single plane should be able to take down troops and ord in a single pass.(Unless of course you count encouraging furballing and discouraging anyone who enjoys playing the game with an eye toward flying buffs or capturing bases).
You've got it Baine, you understand completely and you are correct. The test now is do you also agree with this statement?
There really is no reason why a single player should be able to take down FHs in a single pass.(Unless of course you count encouraging bombing without opposition and discouraging anyone who enjoys playing the game with an eye toward flying fighters and practising their ACM).
If you do then good for you and your intellectual honesty. If you don't then you are just another whiner wanting the game changed to suit your tastes (nothing "wrong" or evil with that, we all are guilty of wanting what we want from time to time) at the expense of other folks being able to enjoy THEIR game (and I think that is selfish and an example of poor sportsmanship).
See? Both camps are equally guilty of this, you should not try and hurt the other players just to make them play your way. Play the game the way you want, but let them play their game too. These maps are more than large enough for all of us to have fun, but if your idea of fun is preventing others from having theirs then AH would be better without you...IN MY OPINION.
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OK ... at one level you're right, a single bomber flight can remove fighters from a field just as a single fighter can remove troops and bombers from the same field.
But there are two gaping differences.
One is the time investment. Popping a Tiffy to 10K, scooting over to the enema base, and then porking bar/ord takes a lot less time than hauling Lancs or B17's up to some reasonable altitude and then lumbering along to target. So there's one big difference - time investment and, as a result, frequency of occurence.
Then there's another big difference - rate of success. A Tiffy Porker at 12K is virtually unstoppable if he gets within radar range of the base. Partly because its a fast plane, partly because it takes so little skill to succeed with the 1.0 pass needed to pork bar or ord, and partly because the porker doesn't give a damn if he dies (and certainly doesn't care about fighting anyone until after the deed is done).
A flight of heavies at anything under 5K stands a much smaller chance of success. Granted, those B17's or Lancs down low may gobble up some figters in their defensive fire, but odds of them getting to drop are much, much lower than the high speed porker. (Not that I'm advocating NOE heavies, mind you.) And if the heavies are at altitude their odds of a direct hit on all the FH's is far from that of the odds of a porker hitting the bar/ord.
And there's a third difference. A flight of heavies can affect one base - maybe two if they don't get intercepted. A single Tiffy can remove troops and ord from 3 or 4 or more fields - and probably in less time that it'd take a B17 to climb to 15K.
And while I'm at it ... a fourth difference. Most of the time I see heavies attacking a base as part of a capture attempt. Porking is a defensive tactic (except when protecting a CV from coastal fields). A couple flights of B24's can make a capture attempt at *one field* hard to stop, a couple of Tiffy Porkers can make any capture attempts along an entire front impossible to accomplish because of the game mechanics of the host.
So, in terms of gameplay, we are really talking about two completely different things, even though they end up resolving to a common theme.
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Originally posted by SuperDud
How would what CHECKERs said effect you in anyway? It wouldn't. I think it's funny how you guys constantly tell us to go to the DA. Why is CHECKERs request so unreasonable that you had to type the same old worn out phrase stated above?
Because you want to play in the MA but you want to special sandbox. You don't want to be subject to the same thing as everybody else in the MA. You want indestructable hangers. You want Airfields to be uncapturable. You already have Fighter Town ringed in and isolated. Now runways are getting vulched and we get calls for super ack. And still you say you want to play in the MA, just terrformed to your specifications. You got Fighter Town and the AirQuakers post more complaints about it than anybody. I think you don't want a seperate AirQuake arena because once the novelty wore off it would be mostly empty.
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I've got to agree that a single buff shouldn't be able to shut down all FHs. People complained about it, and HTC changed the layout of bases so now there are FHs off the main pads, to make single pass shutdowns much more difficult.
I didn't even complain (that much) back when we had the old calibrating system, which made it virtually impossible to guarantee a hit.
I don't see any problem with a flight of buffs coming in and shutting down a base because
a) the dar bar gives ample warning that big, fat slow-moving targets are approaching, so hop into an FW and have at em and
b) It takes a lot more effort for a group of flyers to get together, organize a raid, take off in buffs and climb in formation to attack the target. Such effort usually also involves taking along a goon, which has all the self-defense capabilities of a baby in a carriage. Instead of porking fields, typhies could be hunting goons.
I'm not saying don't make troops and ammo indestructable, just make it so a single fighter can't shutdown a sector with a single pass. It seems like a fairly reasonable request.
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A single player cannot take down FHs in one pass..HELLO!
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Originally posted by Baine
... just make it so a single fighter can't shutdown a sector with a single pass. It seems like a fairly reasonable request.
Where can I get one of these fighters?
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Originally posted by GooseAW
A single player cannot take down FHs in one pass..HELLO!
Correct it takes a single player two passes minimum for small and medium fields with either a Lanc or B24 formation . (on the small field no additional pass is required to also take out the VH)
With a Lanc formation it really requires a single player 3 passes to take out all the FH's on a Large field although it is possible to take them out in two if some critical hangers are already soft. (too risky to try)
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So long as hordes exist, with numbers nearing 100 at times now in a single massive glob moving from base to base to base, you can suck it up and deal with ord being porked. And troops for that mater. It is really the only way to slow down or stop a horde in todays AH.
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Why not use the back-up main arena for a fightertown map with 3 bases with troops disabled? Sorry if this has already been put forth in one of the previous 100 posts.
Dmdmax
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Originally posted by Tilt
Correct it takes a single player two passes minimum for small and medium fields with either a Lanc or B24 formation
You can take down all the FH's at a medium field in one pass.
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Originally posted by Morpheus
So long as hordes exist, with numbers nearing 100 at times now in a single massive glob moving from base to base to base, you can suck it up and deal with ord being porked. And troops for that mater. It is really the only way to slow down or stop a horde in todays AH.
Amen to that brother
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Originally posted by Donzo
You can take down all the FH's at a medium field in one pass.
what they need to do is staggar the FHs around the base more so that no more then 2 FH's or BHs can be taken down in a single pass. no matter what angle the bombers come in at
Like so (just make beleive the "........" dont exist LOL)
FH-----------BH---------------FH
I............................ ...........I
I............................ ...........I
I............................ ...........I
I............................ ...........I
BH........................... .......BH
I............................ ...........I
I............................ ...........I
I............................ ...........I
I............................ ...........I
FH-----------BH----------------FH
Also I'd like to see them change the way bombs can be dropped from heavies from the ability to drop 1 or two at a time to halfloads.
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Originally posted by GooseAW
A single player cannot take down FHs in one pass..HELLO!
Small and medium bases ,yes. Large not cuz are 7 fhs ,spred out. If you drop 5-6000 lbs inbetwen 2 FHs on the same pad, they both go down , no need to aim for each Fh