Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Hangtime on November 18, 2005, 02:33:28 AM
-
While plowing tru Boston's Gun Bible I found this... every once in awile yah run into something that makes yah stop and think. The subject is manditory weapons confiscation, and the reaction of at least this guy has to the senario of forced compliance to repeal or further erosion of the second ammendment.
Dear Peace Officer:
I do not want to kill you. I do not even want to wound you. I admire your courage and the commitment you have made to help others, often at risk of own your life when you act as a Peace Officer. I hope you will not forget what it means to be a Peace Officer and come for me, because if you do, one of us will die. It may be you. I have done nothing wrong. I do not intend to. However, the government that you serve has passed too many "laws" that are, as Marbury v Madison (5 US 137) are "repugnant to the Constitution" and are therefore "null and void of law". I am sure to accidentally break one of these "repugnant laws," some day. The end result is that same government is systematically destroying the Unalienable Rights which our Constitution says shall not be infringed&endash;very specifically, my Right to Keep and Bear Arms.
I am not some wacko lunatic, however I can no longer stand idly by while an out-of-control government hell-bent on "democracy systematically enslaves decent people" which is socialism with a "human" face. I cannot allow the current corrupt-judiciary to use its power to destroy my Unalienable Rights and my country. That government and that judiciary has begun to use you to arrest and kill people just like me&endash;people who believe that the Declaration of Independence, Constitution, and Bill of Rights mean what they say.
You do not know me, but you see me every day. I may be a businessman, a truck driver, or an executive. I could be a housewife or a salesman. However I am Free, therefore I am armed, as Free-Americans have been since the Mayflower Compact. Know this: I am determined to keep the freedoms that only an armed people may retain. With my rifle, I can hit a man-sized target at 800 yards on a bad day. At shorter distances, in the blink of an eye, I can hit a head-size target with a handgun. You do not even want to think about what I can do with my shotgun. I do not wear a uniform. I do not drive a marked car. I do not wear camouflage. I could be your own secretary, or your barber. I might be the guy who delivers your bottled water, or the parcel delivery lady. You do not know who I am, or what arms I have, and you never will. I am millions. I am America. I am Free.
However, I know you. I know your uniform, your car, and your work schedule. I know where you work, and where you live. This is good for you, because not only am I no threat to you, so long as you act as a Peace Officer, for I am also prepared to assist you when you are threatened. You may think that there are not many of me left, but believe me, there are many, many more than you can imagine. When the chips are down, we are the ones who are truly on your side. On your side, that is, so long as you honor your Oath and continue to be a Peace Officer.
We are on your side if you are one of the majority of peace officers who are not corrupt and who have not sold out to the fascists, socialists and communists who will do anything, say anything to destroy the Free America our fathers, grandfathers, and Founding Fathers bequeathed us. No, I am no threat to you, but your bosses in government do not see it that way and will try to tell you otherwise.
They think that I, and my arms, are a threat to them, and they are planning to send you for me, just as they've sent armed, dangerous officers on select little missions for years, taking out targeted individuals. On their orders, you may succeed in murdering me for my beliefs. On the other hand, you may not.
Whether or not you succeed in murdering me, as federal agents murdered Vicki Weaver and her son in Idaho; or as those same federal agents murdered 81 men, women and children at Waco, Texas; there will be others who will rise up in my memory, as I now rise up in honor of the innocent lives taken by the jack-booted thugs and black-clad imitation ninjas who think it is fun to murder Americans&endash;who have somehow become convinced that it is their job to murder Free-Americans.
I am prepared to die, honoring my sacred Oath as an American I utter every time I take the Pledge of Allegiance, that is, to defend and protect the Constitution of the united States of America and the Republic for which it stands. Are you prepared to die to violate the Oath you took? You see, our government is out of control. You know it if you have not been thoroughly brainwashed. You have seen it if you are not blind. It is likely that you, like many others, have been too concerned with your job, your family, and your pension, to say or do anything about it. Deep down, you know I am right. However, you think you must follow orders. Please remember the many who claimed they were only "following orders" at the Nuremberg Trials and what happened to them when Justice finally raised Her Sword and exacted punishment for their lack of thinking.
So, must you simply "follow orders?" Are you going to murder me for having the courage to stand up for the country and the principles in which you believe? Are you going to go along with unconscionably illegal, unconstitutional orders, just as those "good" German soldiers followed their orders? Are you going to be a Peace Officer or a jack-booted thug? There is little difference between a street outlaw who murders and robs; and a thug in uniform that murders and robs under color of law. The result is the same -- property confiscated, lives ruined, families ripped apart, murder committed, and a free nation destroyed.
Look at history. Look around the world. As we move toward Socialism, our country moves closer and closer to losing the Constitution forever. Are you going to enforce unconstitutional "laws?" Are you going to be part of the private army of socialist dictators masquerading as "democratic representatives?" Alternatively, are you going to do your part to recapture America? Are you going to keep your eyes and ears open? Will you let me know when the jack-booted thugs in the SWAT teams have targeted me? Will you let your fellow officers know that their corrupt masters are selling them down the river? Do not come to kill me, because I do not want to kill you. If you do come, you may succeed&endash;if you get lucky. However, do not count on luck, because it will probably be hard--damned hard. Like millions of other Americans, I am the son or daughter of a nation of riflemen--citizen-soldiers who have a rich heritage of beating the best the enemy can send against us. We are resourceful. We understand weapons and tactics. You are foolish if you intend to be our enemy. If you do not succeed in the end, and you will not, here is what you can expect:
Ambushes of SWAT teams; the wholesale slaughter of all the jack-booted thugs who have murdered innocent Americans on the orders of their socialist masters; targeted assassinations and kidnappings of anti-Constitution judges; assassinations of anti-American, anti-gun politicians; demolition of your jails, precinct houses and other gathering places giving you and your compatriots no rest or respite.
By your willingness to be a good little Nazi, you will have unleashed a civil war. It does not have to be that way. You can do something about it. It is easy. Read the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights. Although you took an Oath to defend them, you do not see much of them in your training, do you? Today, these documents are considered dangerous by the government, just as King George found them dangerous over 200 years ago. Why do you suppose your leaders lead you to oppose the very rights you swore to protect? Why do they want a disarmed public? You know the reason. It has nothing to do with controlling crime. It has everything to do with using you to disarm, fine and control your fellow American Citizens.
Do not fall for it. Do not force me to defend myself, because you may not survive.
Unsigned.
Source Link (http://www.nakedgov.com/dearpo.htm)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Assuming that only 1% of american gun owners refuse and fight, that would mean 2,400,000 weapons in the hands of 750,000 partisans fighting a guerilla war right here on their own territory. I'm still thinkin about this one.. and thinking about how much damage just 10,000 or less dedicated insurgents in Iraq are doing to our 'national will' to continue the conflict over there...
Interesting.
-
Just a tad bit on the "White Suprem side of Life". I too believe in the "Right to Bare Arms"...But that post Hang is like placing cheese in a broken trap and begging the Rats to come. No win situation.
Yes I believe our current Govt is running amuck and changes need made. A time and a place for everything. It's like the "Old Bull & Young Bull" joke.
For years I have believed that soon will be a time for a "Free America."
Until then I merely sit in amusement and awe. How long will it take for the present and future American Govt to realize that we need strict controls over our Borders? Lady Liberty holds a newer meaning today than she had in the 1920's.
Let America go back to the times of pre WWII and the isolation that FDR wanted for America. We can no longer be the Worlds Big Brother and try to make everyone play nice in the sandbox.
Get America out of the decaying corrupted UN. Watch the World react as we recall ALL ambassy staff from every Country. Seal the Borders at Mexico and Canada. Recall All our American supporting troops from EVERY Country. Use our own oil, we have plenty. See what happens then Worldwide.
I am not White, Black, Yellow or Red... I, sir am an American that is tired of being kicked around by the rest of the World.
I believe in a "Free America!"
GBA,
Mac
-
Assuming that only 1% of american gun owners refuse and fight, that would mean 2,400,000 weapons in the hands of 750,000 partisans fighting a guerilla war right here on their own territory. I'm still thinkin about this one.. and thinking about how much damage just 10,000 or less dedicated insurgents in Iraq are doing to our 'national will' to continue the conflict over there...
Even more interesting is that you think your country is no better than an unstable 3rd world midget as what goes with internal stability. Funny how none of us who live in your so called socialist countries never feel the need to fight against our own government. :huh
IF there will be a civil war AQ will use up all the confusion and you have an immeidate infiltration at your hands. That's when and where the fight will move to your soil. Forget Iraq.
So if you gun owners are smart, you'll forget any plans for a civil war. Anything else and you've become the true enemy of your nation.
-
Well that's kinda tellin the pot black.
Tell a Finn not to raise up and defend their Country in the 1940's and ask those that did if they'd do it again.
Oh and don't forget... this fight started on OUR soil. Now we've taken it to their backyard. Bet the Finns wished they could have done that during WWII.
By all means, this is not a personal attack.
Just my 0.02.
with Respect,
Mac
-
From some of the stuff I've seen and read there is a possiblity that anyone resisting could find themselves fightin U.N. Troops.
The way some of the international laws were writtin right around the Kosavo thing and since then......................... ....
-
Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Funny how none of us who live in your so called socialist countries never feel the need to fight against our own government. :huh
well, like, duh. you've been *socialized.*
-
the letter is a sentiment that should be pulished maybe but never sent..
I have had occassion to be around a lot of cops... I see and talk to em in a relaxed atmosphere allmost every day (the shooting range for 6 agencies is on the property of the plant I run)
They come in to BS... they are frustrated too but... they are pretty robotic.. the good ones are fed up and barely surviving... looking for the out.. but..
They are trapped and they have a heavy foot on their neck... their bosses are socialist politicians and the rules are made by socialists.. they are under the microscope at all times and free will and individualism is beaten out of em..
I have not yet met one who did not believe in the right to keep and bear arms uninfringed... but.. they tell me that all those sour faced new afirmative action weasels those sour faces losers that they jerk their thumb out at in disgust... those little nazis don't like you... they are eager to enforce nanny laws...
There was no shortage of willing alphabet soup ninjas to slaughter citizens at ruby ridge and Waco.
The on the job cop has it pretty rough.. the citizens they see are all lying scum and their bosses are even worse.
Hopefully... a constitutional supreme court will make some rulings that cool everything down..
As rights are removed more of the gun culture heads toward the letter writers thinking....1% turns to 5% or 10% What needs to happen is that gun freedoms be restored in such a way that the number of unhappy gun culture types gets down to 0.001%
It would be impossible in this country to stop a dedicated force of 1% or more of the gun culture.
Sending in the blue hats would cause more people to join the letter writer.. lot's of dead jibberish speaking blue hats.
lazs
-
:noid
-
Geez.... if there were no guns, you guys would have to find something else to be paranoid about losing. :rolleyes:
-
yep.. they would probly put some sort of prohibitive tax on gasoline making it like $6 a gallon or something... or make us all drive on the wrong side of the road next..
lazs
-
AWMac I don't think you can compare the attack of another nations military to raising a civil war through legislation opposing militia.
A civil war is the worst and shameful thing ever to happen to a nation. And it would be the greatest gift you could ever give to your enemies. If you love your country you will not raise your arms against a fellow citizen.
-
"I cannot allow the current corrupt-judiciary to use its power to destroy my Unalienable Rights and my country."
I thought it was "inalienable"?
"I am prepared to die, honoring my sacred Oath as an American I utter every time I take the Pledge of Allegiance, that is, to defend and protect the Constitution of the united States of America and the Republic for which it stands. "
lol Holy Smokers. Not too far from a radical insurgent's rhetoric. Put a towel on this guys head and a Koran in his hand and you just can't tell the diff.
-
Ripley, The Finnish Civil war.. also refered to as your War for Independance produced the only eastern european country that would not fall to the Russian Communists.
It was a viscious struggle, with the minority (anti-communist rural civil population, armed to the teeth) winning despite being outnumbered 4 to 1. It was also a very dirty war with 3/4 of the deaths non combatants.. after the armed struggle ceased.. slaughter of prisonors and civilians in refugee camps. Brutal indeed.
I have a heluva lotta respect for your lil country standing up to the russians, and demanding self-determination and self goverment. Yes, your great granparnets paid a hell of a price.. but just outta curiosity, was your family White or Red during that Finnish Civil War?
-
Originally posted by Curval
"I cannot allow the current corrupt-judiciary to use its power to destroy my Unalienable Rights and my country."
I thought it was "inalienable"?
"I am prepared to die, honoring my sacred Oath as an American I utter every time I take the Pledge of Allegiance, that is, to defend and protect the Constitution of the united States of America and the Republic for which it stands. "
lol Holy Smokers. Not too far from a radical insurgent's rhetoric. Put a towel on this guys head and a Koran in his hand and you just can't tell the diff.
Nothing wrong with feeling passion about your country, however when you partake in strapping bombs to women and children to do your dirty work, or sawing heads off on live tape, then I'd say its a bit overboard...:confused:
-
How about shooting a nursing mother in the face, or burning to death 83 americans? How about marching your military thru a peaceful rally, burning, shooting, bayoneting as you go..
I doubt seriously American Riflemen will resort to the tragedy of Finland or the insane tactics of the moslem insurgents.
Don't you?
However, I can see American Rifleman doing just what they did over 200 years ago... Liberty is always unfinished business.
-
How about using white phosphorus?
-
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Nothing wrong with feeling passion about your country, however when you partake in strapping bombs to women and children to do your dirty work, or sawing heads off on live tape, then I'd say its a bit overboard...:confused:
I don't disagree...I am just saying they "sound" alike. But...you "have" had a few nut-jobs who have taken this close to that extent...David Koresh...Tim McVay (sp?).
-
Originally posted by Curval
I don't disagree...I am just saying they "sound" alike. But...you "have" had a few nut-jobs who have taken this close to that extent...David Koresh...Tim McVay (sp?).
Everyone does, its just that Allah has the market on nutjobs these days...if they'd just take out that "72 virgins" part they might have a hard time recruiting testosteroned-arab teens...
-
Agreed.. Koresh and McVeigh were nutjobs, but two entirely diffrent brands of nutjobs. Koresh never attacked anybody. McVeigh belongs in the same closet as the Atlanta Bomber and the Unibomber. Neither are representitives of average american riflemen.
Percentage wize, the nutjobs represent a inhumanly small percentage of the population.. yet the anti-gun lobby use them as propaganda poster boys for infringement of the very rights that insure the citizen remains in control of his own destiny.
-
Hi Hang,
At one time in my bygone youth, I might have endorsed the sentiment of such a letter, but not anymore. Personally, I'd rather lose the right to keep and bear arms than resort to murder, kidnapping, and and assassination in a misguided attempt to hang on to my firearms.
Please do not misunderstand me, I am grateful for the ability I have been granted to own guns, and I will do whatever I can within the political system to maintain that right, including donating to lobbying organizations, making calls to representatives and so on. But the issues for which I am willing to disobey the magistrate even to the point of being willing to die, are only those issues where to obey the magistrates commands would be to go against what God has commanded. Accordingly, if a law is passed requiring registration and the magistrate says, "you will register your guns" then I will begrudgingly register them, if another law is finally passed banning firearms ownership and is upheld by the SC, then I will regretfully part with my firearms. God forbid that I would resort to murder, kidnapping, or assassination in an attempt to resist what is biblically a matter of indifference.
- SEAGOON
-
You guys are getting your words confused.
You are confusing the words "Civil War," with "Revolution."
There will be no civil war here.
However, I give the revolution 6-7 years to start. And I'm not kidding.
-
Originally posted by Hangtime
but just outta curiosity, was your family White or Red during that Finnish Civil War?
Most likely it wouldn't matter, if the person is a typical example of the population. Most of the population were "socialized" after WWII during finlandization. There's no way a typical finn would question the authority of the goverment or it's policies. It's just the same in the US, the values taught at school and by the media are just a little different. Herds of sheep...
-
Originally posted by Hangtime
Agreed.. Koresh and McVeigh were nutjobs, but two entirely diffrent brands of nutjobs. Koresh never attacked anybody. McVeigh belongs in the same closet as the Atlanta Bomber and the Unibomber. Neither are representitives of average american riflemen.
Percentage wize, the nutjobs represent a inhumanly small percentage of the population.. yet the anti-gun lobby use them as propaganda poster boys for infringement of the very rights that insure the citizen remains in control of his own destiny.
Well, I could say that the above sounds much like your average Musilm's response to all Musilms being religious nutjobs hell bet on strapping on a bomb or cutting someone's head off on the internet.....it is not representative or all Musilms. Islam is the religion of peace etc.
-
Hangtime that's an interesting question and I have to admit I've never laid much thought on that. The civil war doesn't get much publicity and most people do not want to dig the past. It's a horrible thing when neighbours start to kill eachothers.
I'm glad that the whites won anyway.
And to mora: There are several things the government does I disagree with. So far the benefits outweigh the disadvantages though. I have the option to migrate the day I get enough of it.
-
Originally posted by beet1e
How about using white phosphorus?
Willy Pete is ok but Nape and Snake is more effective.
-
Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
I have the option to migrate the day I get enough of it.
What would happen if all the places to migrate to were worse? What would you do then?
-
Originally posted by Seagoon
Hi Hang,
At one time in my bygone youth, I might have endorsed the sentiment of such a letter, but not anymore. Personally, I'd rather lose the right to keep and bear arms than resort to murder, kidnapping, and and assassination in a misguided attempt to hang on to my firearms.
Please do not misunderstand me, I am grateful for the ability I have been granted to own guns, and I will do whatever I can within the political system to maintain that right, including donating to lobbying organizations, making calls to representatives and so on. But the issues for which I am willing to disobey the magistrate even to the point of being willing to die, are only those issues where to obey the magistrates commands would be to go against what God has commanded. Accordingly, if a law is passed requiring registration and the magistrate says, "you will register your guns" then I will begrudgingly register them, if another law is finally passed banning firearms ownership and is upheld by the SC, then I will regretfully part with my firearms. God forbid that I would resort to murder, kidnapping, or assassination in an attempt to resist what is biblically a matter of indifference.
- SEAGOON
Hmmm...
DEMANDING OR COMPLYING WITH REGISTRATION IS BETRAYAL
Article VI of the Constitution designates the Constitution as the supreme law of the United States, and specifically states that it prevails over all state constitutions and statutes. Further, Article VI requires all legislative, executive, and judicial officers of the U.S. government and of the state governments to take an oath to obey the Constitution. Some of these officials may hate firearms and the power they give to the citizenry, but that is irrelevant — they must treat the Second Amendment as they would the rest of our Bill of Rights.
All state officials — judges, representatives, law enforcement officials — know these facts, but many are corrupt and ignore them. Their sworn word means nothing to them, nor does the Constitution, nor do the rights of the constituents for whom they work unless it suits their own political agenda. It is against this conscienceless species of human that decent Americans must continually fight, in California and in the rest of the United States.
If you believe you have the right to keep and bear proper militia arms in order to defend yourself, your family, your home, and your country, and if you believe this right is recognized in the Bill of Rights, then you cannot register or turn in any firearm whatsoever. You may rationalize it any way you wish, but if you register a firearm you are implicitly agreeing with the proposition that your right to own that firearm is nonexistent, and that such ownership is dependent upon permission from the government. Registration equals betrayal of yourself, your family, your ancestors, your birthright, your country, and your Constitution. Period.
Full Article, here: (http://attrition.org/technical/firearms/open_defiance.html)
Seagoon, I respectully submit your views (edit) on this particular subject are flawed and stand outside the national heritage of my ancestors vs the heritage of yours.
...there is no right to kill people who are doing their duty.
---- Bill Clinton, after Waco, 5 May 1995
I disagree. Our forefathers (not yours) killed plenty of redcoats and hessians who were doing their duty and in defense of the duly constituted government at that. The jews of the warsaw ghetto had every right to kill the germans and polish collabaorators who were 'doing their duty', enforcing the duly enacted laws against jews bearing arms. Our own prosecutions at Nurenburg established a clear precedent that men can and will be executed for 'just following orders'.
Sometimes to preserve freedom men must be killed. Simple as that. This is why the Second Ammendment guarantees us that IN AMERICA, the governemnet and it's agents must never be allowed to outgun the common people. The Founders could not predict precisely when such a time would come again.. but they knew for sure it would come again. Thus they guaranteed in the stongest terms each citizen his private arms. When their treason against our rights leaves us no other choice.. the day they come to get our arms some americans will elect to give them the ammunition first.
That is what firearms are for, and as Finland and Switzerland can attest, no people can long remain free without them.
-
I allways remember my oath. It's to uphold and defend the CONSTITUTION of the United States. Not the government itself.
-
^^^^
Exactly. Succint, accurate and directly the point.
-
Originally posted by beet1e
How about using white phosphorus?
Naaah, napalm is easier to make and handle.
-
their would be no need for the armed citizen against his government if the government simply kept up their end of the bargin and obeyed the constitution.
lazs
-
Hi Hangtime,
We live in a nation ruled by laws. Our supreme law is undeniably the constitution, but even that supreme corpus of law is subject to ammendment and is, for better of for worse, also subject to the final interpretation of the Supreme Court.
The law of our land currently guarantees my ability to own firearms, subject to a myriad of other restrictions (for instance, I may not own fully automatic weapons without a special license, I may not carry a handgun on my person without another license, I may not enter a school with a firearm, etc., etc., etc.) However, should the law be changed to further restrict my rights to the point where my ability to own a gun is effectively nullified, and that ruling be upheld by the Supreme Court, then within the framework established by the founders I have no recourse but to comply, become an outlaw, or rebel.
The above is also true regarding my first amendment rights to free speech. These are also restricted by various laws. Let me give you an example of one such infringement, current federal law makes the following actions illegal: "shouting and/or gesturing, and communicating (either orally and/or with signs and/or by my demeanor and/or expression) demonstrating, praying, distributing materials, carrying signs, sidewalk counseling" when they are conducted on public or private property within a certain distance of an abortion clinic. These restrictions, brought about in the 90s, have effectively ended demonstrations, counseling, and embargoes aound abortion clinics. This law was created to eliminate a form of free speech that many found objectionable.
Now regardless of what you think of abortion, here we have a case in which the first ammendment is restricted that is clearly not the same as the sensible restrictions on shouting "fire"or inciting others to illegally injure or kill another citizen.
Now did I betray the constitution and your forefathers by not actively rebelling against this act? I found it to be a gross and grievous violation of my first ammendment rights which shamefully manipulated the commerce clause to end public political and religious dissent on a controversial subject, and roughly the equivalent of barring protests, prayer, or attempts to distribute literature outside of slave markets in the 19th century. Most people in this forum probably would not see it as a betrayal and certainly not something to start a revolution over. In fact, they'd probably condemn me as a looney if I tried.
But you see that is the problem - determining when to revolt is a matter of private interpretation. You see the point at which we must rebel as the legal nullification of the second ammendment of the bill of rights, I, on the other hand would never go so far as to begin a revolution over the issue of firearms ownership.
I set the bar for disobeying the law at the point where the magistrate tells me to do something that God forbids, or tells me not to do something that God mandates. So in Saudi Arabia I would be meeting with other Christians to worship on Sunday regardless of the fact that it is illegal to do so, and I would bear the consequences. As far as revolution is concerned, i.e. actively taking up arms against the magistrate and pursuing the violent overthrow of the government, I would probably not do that unless the situation became unbearable and where continued inaction would result in the deaths of others. For instance, were I a Kurd living in Iraq under Sadaam's regime, I would have undoubtedly decided that not pursuing a revolution would have been a violation of the 6th commandment calling to do all I can to preserve the lives of others from being unjustly taken.
So here you can call me a betrayer of the "Sons of Liberty", and that may well be true, but in these matters we have a very different interpretation of what can be endured and what can't. I simply don't find that my right to my Lee-Enfield is God given and thus absolutely inalienable.
- SEAGOON
-
Originally posted by beet1e
Geez.... if there were no guns, you guys would have to find something else to be paranoid about losing. :rolleyes:
I am not worried about losing my teeth due to poor dental care,
I am not worried about my liver due to alcoholism.
I am not worried about some Prince marrying a butt ugly woman.
I am not worried about some Irish guy blowing up my department store (just Arab guys)
I am not worried about a criminal breaking into my home, my city is quite safe, and I am well-armed to boot. :D
dago
-
Seagoon, yer a rational man. The trigger points for armed defiance against authority for you and I differ.. and that is acceptable. I suspect should you see personal evidence of abuse by that authority against members of your congregation you will act.
The nation you now call home came into being at the point of a gun.. in armed resistance against lawful authority. I might also call your attention to the Oath of Fealty you will take as a citizen of the United States Of America should you decide to take it:
I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.
Should the supreme law of the land, I.E. the Constitution and it's Articles of Ammendemnt be abridged unlawfully I'd expect you to do your duty.
-
"You do not know me"
The author is wrong. I received plenty of training on spotting extremists of this nature and have been pretty successful thus far in picking them out. A very small number of them are actually dangerous. The vast majority are full of plenty of angry words and angst but are too chicken to actually try anything.
I don't need to discredit them. People who hold up scum like Koresh as some sort of folk hero do a good enough job of making themselves look foolish. That's the sad part about it.....that entire movement might get a whole lot more agreement from the general population if they didn't go out of the way to make themselves look like a bunch of nutcases.
J_A_B
-
maybe.. maybe not. Good friend of mine, known him for 20 years. A pilot. Pillar of the community. Ex marine, like his dad and brother.. who I also know very well.
Bumped into him down at the rifle range.. and up to that instant never had any idea he was a Rifleman. As is his brother, his brothers wife, his kid, the guy across the street, another up the block, my landlord, my kids neighbor, my doctor, his partner..
all unknown to me to be involved in shooting untill I picked up a rifle and went to the range.
of course, I'm not 'trained' (brainwashed?) into 'recognizing' these 'dangerous' nut jobs that think that Waco was a disgrace, that gun contorl is an insult against the rights of free men.. but hey; again, what do I know.
apparently I didn't know anything at all.
-
Originally posted by J_A_B
"You do not know me"
The author is wrong. I received plenty of training on spotting extremists of this nature and have been pretty successful thus far in picking them out. A very small number of them are actually dangerous. The vast majority are full of plenty of angry words and angst but are too chicken to actually try anything.
I don't need to discredit them. People who hold up scum like Koresh as some sort of folk hero do a good enough job of making themselves look foolish. That's the sad part about it.....that entire movement might get a whole lot more agreement from the general population if they didn't go out of the way to make themselves look like a bunch of nutcases.
J_A_B
HMMMM......................
For the record I do not and did not support or agree with Koresh and those with him.
I DID AND DO VERY STRONGLY OBJECT TO THE WAY THAT SITUATION WAS HANDLED!
He and those with him had and still have the right to be nut cases if that is what they were. To my knowledge they were doing NOTHING to harm anyone. If we deny others freedom and liberty because we think their just nutcases then we will be denying ourselves freedom and liberty because someone is going to at some point decide we are nutcases. You are free to swing your fist where ever you wish BUT that freedom STOPS about 1 ft. from my nose! Go past that and we will have problems. Yet someone somewhere within our country has and will continue to object to any reaction I might make to your fist coming at my nose as violence. Never mind that you started it. Happening in schools all the time.
A great deal of what was claimed agianst those people was pretty much discounted.
The weapon the ATF claims was converted has never been seen by anyone but the ATF???? There is another thread on this BBS regarding ATF abuses.
Law Enforcement has it TUFF no question. I agree with Laz published perhaps but not sent. The vast majority of our Law Enforcement are good people trying to do a very difficult job.
-
^^ well said Wrag. My sentiments, on the button. Thanks.
-
Some of you only seem to think your men when you own a gun. Thats the sad part. Without it you dont seem to be much of anything at all. I own a gun. I lived with them all my life yet if it was gone tommorrow, I doubt id miss it at all. I dont need to wear the baggage you guys seem to carry around.
Imho, some of you more frequent posters (no names, no pack drill) are pretty disturbed in the head. Quite intelligent in many respects but very disturbed.
-
Hey, your entitled to an opinion. As a point of fact I'm the same guy I was six months ago when I didn't have a weapon in the house. wasn't 'sacred' of a damn thing then, ain't any more or less scared now. What has changed is my level of awareness on the issues surrounding gun ownership.
BTW, what's that Roo in yer avatard holding, anyway?
-
Originally posted by scspook
Some of you only seem to think your men when you own a gun. Thats the sad part. Without it you dont seem to be much of anything at all. I own a gun. I lived with them all my life yet if it was gone tommorrow, I doubt id miss it at all. I dont need to wear the baggage you guys seem to carry around.
Imho, some of you more frequent posters (no names, no pack drill) are pretty disturbed in the head. Quite intelligent in many respects but very disturbed.
Hmmm......... that IMHO seems like an assumption?
-
"I DID AND DO VERY STRONGLY OBJECT TO THE WAY THAT SITUATION WAS HANDLED!"
So do I, and so do most people with a brain. It was obviously a SNAFU of monumental proportions. Waco is used as an example of EVERYTHING being done WRONG. Nonetheless, Koresh was still a nutcase who makes for a very poor poster child. Randy Weaver is a better choice.
Hangtime--people who may have fantasies about killing me are indeed potentially dangerous. I don't care to go home in a box. You call it brainwashing....I call it knowledge which helps ensure my safety. Here's a clue--we aren't "brainwashed" at the academy into thinking that these people are somehow a threat to the federal government. No, we're taught how to deal with people who are potential threats on an individual level. By "potentially dangerous" I mean dangerous to ME. The number one goal of the job, above all else, is to go home at the end of your shift.
As far as the second amendment is concerned....I think I've always been a pretty consistent supporter of it, and the rest of the constitution too. I consider the 10th the most-abused Amendment though, ahead of even the second.
I think the anti-US Government crowd fixates on the wrong targets to an extent. Local police don't enforce federal law....state law and local code are the tools of the trade. Isn't "states rights" one of the rallying cries of the anti-federal government movement?
J_A_B
-
Originally posted by Hangtime
maybe.. maybe not. Good friend of mine, known him for 20 years. A pilot. Pillar of the community. Ex marine, like his dad and brother.. who I also know very well.
Bumped into him down at the rifle range.. and up to that instant never had any idea he was a Rifleman. As is his brother, his brothers wife, his kid, the guy across the street, another up the block, my landlord, my kids neighbor, my doctor, his partner..
all unknown to me to be involved in shooting untill I picked up a rifle and went to the range.
You are capitalising "Rifleman" and writing about these people as if it were some kind of masonic organisation. Is it?
...and, just for the record you sound as if you are being indoctrinated.
-
Originally posted by J_A_B
"I DID AND DO VERY STRONGLY OBJECT TO THE WAY THAT SITUATION WAS HANDLED!"
So do I, and so do most people with a brain. It was obviously a SNAFU of monumental proportions. Waco is used as an example of EVERYTHING being done WRONG. Nonetheless, Koresh was still a nutcase who makes for a very poor poster child. Randy Weaver is a better choice.
Hangtime--people who may have fantasies about killing me are indeed potentially dangerous. I don't care to go home in a box. You call it brainwashing....I call it knowledge which helps ensure my safety. Here's a clue--we aren't "brainwashed" at the academy into thinking that these people are somehow a threat to the federal government. No, we're taught how to deal with people who are potential threats on an individual level. By "potentially dangerous" I mean dangerous to ME. The number one goal of the job, above all else, is to go home at the end of your shift.
As far as the second amendment is concerned....I think I've always been a pretty consistent supporter of it, and the rest of the constitution too. I consider the 10th the most-abused Amendment though, ahead of even the second.
I think the anti-US Government crowd fixates on the wrong targets to an extent. Local police don't enforce federal law....state law and local code are the tools of the trade. Isn't "states rights" one of the rallying cries of the anti-federal government movement?
J_A_B
Yup.. and you sound like every other level-headed local policeman and county officer I've run across. No bones, here. I don't consider the police an enemy on any level.. nor do I consider the the Federal Government per se as 'the enemy'... they ain't crapped in my personal bowl of cream of wheat yet. I have yet to encounter a cop that didn't react to common courtesy with coutesy... as apparently the vast majority of cops behave.
I have been present when an FAA official got high and mighty, and I've also witnessed some mighty offensive and arrogant breaucratic crap. Such is life.
Regardless, there seems to be a growing outrage amongst the 'gun culture' that a smart man would deem worth notice.. something that untill recently has escaped my notice.
-
Originally posted by Curval
You are capitalising "Rifleman" and writing about these people as if it were some kind of masonic organisation. Is it?
...and, just for the record you sound as if you are being indoctrinated.
In a way yes. I don't have a rifle to hunt 'game'. Having a rifle is a responsibility. It a unique sense of propriety to an American Tradition.. often an intangible that those from places where no such tradition exists often misunderstands.
-
In my opinion, the biggest threat to our nation are city dwellers and surburbanites who never get out into the real world and never experience any way of life except their own sheltered existance. Call them city-slickers, yuppies, whatever you want.
I'm talking about people who think stuff like:
"I don't need a gun, so I don't see why you'd want one either".
"I don't need a 4x4 so you shouldn't be able to have one either"
"I live in an apartment and don't own any land so I don't care if they use eminent domain on yours for that new Wal Mart"
"I don't know how to actually build anything myself so I don't care if they make it illegal for you to build what you like on your own property"
"I don't like the noise that (road, airport, railroad, etc) makes, despite the fact it was there for 50 years before I moved here"
....and so on.
The whole attitude of "it's okay to ban anything I don't personally use" and "if that law is good for NYC and LA it must be good for rural WVa too!" is what's wrecking this country. It's kind of like how the Durango & Silverton RR is increasingly under fire from the yuppies moving into Durango (now that Boulder and Aspen are too expensive) and the yuppies don't like the steam engines....nevermind that the railroad has been there since the 1880's, founded the town, and the yuppies shouldn't have moved there if they didn't like coal smoke. No, ban the train to suit their narrow-minded selfish way of life!!!
And that presents a problem for the people who truly treasure the Constitution....because instead of the federal government being the root of the problem (as opposed to its actions being a symptom), it's half the people in the country who are the problem. What can be done?
Yeah, it's pretty clear I don't live in a big city. I used to live in the Cleveland area....never again will I live in a major urban area. I feel sorry for people who spend their entire lives in a city and never see the country as it really is.
J_A_B
Oh, and surburban sprawl is the tool of Satan, if there is such a thing as a tool of Satan.
-
Originally posted by Curval
You are capitalising "Rifleman" and writing about these people as if it were some kind of masonic organisation. Is it?
...and, just for the record you sound as if you are being indoctrinated.
OK this is hard to explain.
IMHO what Hang is trying to say is ............
you're dealing with a group of people with a certain mindset. Trying to explain this mindset is VERY difficult! If it is some kind of organization it is a voluntary one that many are a part of without realizing it.
This far and NO further is a portion of the mindset.
They value their freedom AND, this part is important, accept the responsibilty for that freedom.
That responsibilty includes giving, acknowledging, and assuring the freedom of others.
That includes accepting the responsibilty for having a leathel weapon within your control and knowing it is a leathel weapon and acting accordingly. And KNOWING that because you have control of that leathel weapon you WILL be held to a higher standard of LAW then those that do not.
That includes the responsibilty of learning when, and how, this weapon should be used and when, and how, it should not.
That also includes the responsibilty for SELF DISCIPLINE, and SELF CONTROL. Meaning you NO LONGER have the luxary of throwing those screaming, spit spewing, tauntrums the liberals seems so fond of. Because if you do and you have a weapon and a liberal is present, that liberal will be POSITIVE you are going to kill someone. You KNOW in your heart and mind you won't, but the liberal can only see what is in their own heart and mind and only expect you to act according to what THEY BELIEVE, and quite possibly what they KNOW they would do?
You can call it endoctrination or what ever. But many consider it a badge of honor. When around such people it's very soothing! Yep soothing. You know they value your freedom, liberty, and rights as much as their own AND they value highly your right to DISAGREE with them! YOU KNOW WHERE YOU STAND!
These are not gang banger types. They will not threaten you or anyone with leathel force unless they are provoked. That provocation will in almost every case withstand scrutiny in a court of law and result in the justification of the use of that leathel force. You are quite safe around these people. Perhaps the safest you can ever be.
These are the kind of people that willing come to the support of law enforcement. Even risking their lives in such actions. They believe firmly in the Rule of Law. And disagree firmly with the rule of men.
hmmm........ not sure I am able to convey this properly. Many have tried and most have done a much better job.
Hope that i've helped some all the same.
-
Originally posted by J_A_B
In my opinion, the biggest threat to our nation are city dwellers and surburbanites who never get out into the real world and never experience any way of life except their own sheltered existance. Call them city-slickers, yuppies, whatever you want.
I'm talking about people who think stuff like:
"I don't need a gun, so I don't see why you'd want one either".
"I don't need a 4x4 so you shouldn't be able to have one either"
"I live in an apartment and don't own any land so I don't care if they use eminent domain on yours for that new Wal Mart"
"I don't know how to actually build anything myself so I don't care if they make it illegal for you to build what you like on your own property"
"I don't like the noise that (road, airport, railroad, etc) makes, despite the fact it was there for 50 years before I moved here"
....and so on.
The whole attitude of "it's okay to ban anything I don't personally use" and "if that law is good for NYC and LA it must be good for rural WVa too!" is what's wrecking this country. It's kind of like how the Durango & Silverton RR is increasingly under fire from the yuppies moving into Durango (now that Boulder and Aspen are too expensive) and the yuppies don't like the steam engines....nevermind that the railroad has been there since the 1880's, founded the town, and the yuppies shouldn't have moved there if they didn't like coal smoke. No, ban the train to suit their narrow-minded selfish way of life!!!
And that presents a problem for the people who truly treasure the Constitution....because instead of the federal government being the root of the problem (as opposed to its actions being a symptom), it's half the people in the country who are the problem. What can be done?
Yeah, it's pretty clear I don't live in a big city. I used to live in the Cleveland area....never again will I live in a major urban area. I feel sorry for people who spend their entire lives in a city and never see the country as it really is.
J_A_B
Oh, and surburban sprawl is the tool of Satan, if there is such a thing as a tool of Satan.
Dang! Right on!!!! SIR
OOPS came to mind right after I posted. These are the kind of people that IMHO DON'T accept the resposibilty for their freedom, don't understand the nature of their freedom, or care about their freedom, until someone tries to take it. They totaly miss the part "I am not free unless you are free". Hmmm perhaps they just don't understand it? Probably don't understand the difference between freedom and liberty either.
-
Yup. I can't do any better than that. Again Wrag.. thanks. Just got off the phone with my buddy the pilot. Asked him the same question. Here's what he said, word for word. I wrote it down, because he got kinda quiet and said 'This is important'. Here goes..
This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. Without me, my rifle is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than the enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me.
I will.
My rifle and I know that what counts is not the rounds we fire, the noise we make or the smoke.. We know that it is the hits that count. We will hit. We will hit HARD.
My rifle is human, just as I am human, because it is my life. So, I will learn it as my brother. I will learn its weaknesses, its strengths, its parts, its accessories, its sights and its barrel. I will keep my rifle clean and ready, even as I am clean and ready. We will become part of each other.
Before God I swear this; My rifle and I are the defenders of my country, our rights, our future. We are the masters of our enemy. We are the saviors of Freedom.
So be it, until victory is ours and there is no enemy.
I asked him where he heard that and he laughed. "I'm a Marine. We memorize it or get the livin crap kicked out of us. I had to recite that during a tear gas familiarization. If I screwed it up, I'd have to go back in again... not likely to be something I'd ever forget."
Go figure. Whelp.. here's to The United States Marines.
-
Originally posted by Hangtime
BTW, what's that Roo in yer avatard holding, anyway?
Cougar Hotas stick. Need to make it a tad bigger methinks
-
:rofl
Hang! I too am an Ex-Marine. I knew where that came from soon as I saw it. I still remember boot camp! IMHO that is one of the things that can happen in a persons life that if they go through it is NEVER forgotten!
It has been said many times "Once a Marine always a Marine".
BTW I think that and my upbringing made me a Rifleman.
Still have a soft spot in my heart for the M-14.
Note: EVERY Marine no matter if they be a cook, mechanic, truck driver, what ever they are assigned to do after boot camp is first and foremost a RIFLEMAN!
That is Marine Corps basic!
to you and tell your friend Semper Fi :)
-
Originally posted by beet1e
How about using white phosphorus?
I always figured White Phosphorus or napalm would be just what the doctor ordered for a swat team.
Dont you have an arm to break?
-
"They believe firmly in the Rule of Law. And disagree firmly with the rule of men."
HUH?
Just who made the Rule of Law? Aliens from outter space?
Hang explained it better than you in one sentence. He essentially said I simply could understand because I have not grown up in your gun-culture, and he is right.
The stuff you wrote is just fluffy "God Bless America" rhetoric with a bit of liberal bashing thrown in for good measure.
-
scspck.. I believer that anyone who has spent his life with firearms and then doesn't trust his friends and neigbors and fellow man with one is.... very obviously... insane. How do you walk the street or drive a car? any of your dangerous fellow men could nut out and vere over the line or curb and run you over..
jab... you are pretty much correct except that most of us do not make a hero of koresh.. we do feel that he had rights tho. moreso.. we fear a government who would not only kill a nut who had harmed no one but.... kill 80 other men women and 28 children just to get to him..
in Randy Weavers case it is even worse... the man did everything he could do to hide from government and be as harmless as possible and they hunted him down like an animal and trampled his (our) rights and slaughtered his family... for no reaon at all.
seagoon... I think that you may be hanging on to your last vestiges of being british... Here... the constitution and the founders expected that unconstitutional laws would be met with defiance... they felt it was the way things should be. If a law comes out and says that free speech only applies to what you can say so long as no one else hears it.... and... the supremes make it the "law of the land" is it right? do you quit preaching? or... do you change your preaching to suit the new guidlines?
At what point does your new country turn into your old one? and do you care? where would you go if you did?
lazs
-
Originally posted by Curval
"They believe firmly in the Rule of Law. And disagree firmly with the rule of men."
HUH?
Just who made the Rule of Law? Aliens from outter space?
Hang explained it better than you in one sentence. He essentially said I simply could understand because I have not grown up in your gun-culture, and he is right.
The stuff you wrote is just fluffy "God Bless America" rhetoric with a bit of liberal bashing thrown in for good measure.
Curval, growing up in a gun culture does not make us bad men.
It makes us VERY[/b] bad men.
:D
-
Originally posted by Curval
"They believe firmly in the Rule of Law. And disagree firmly with the rule of men."
HUH?
Just who made the Rule of Law? Aliens from outter space?
Hang explained it better than you in one sentence. He essentially said I simply could understand because I have not grown up in your gun-culture, and he is right.
The stuff you wrote is just fluffy "God Bless America" rhetoric with a bit of liberal bashing thrown in for good measure.
Hmmmm thought everyone knew and understood what the rule of law vs the rule of man was?!?!
Rule of law vs rule of men.
Rule of law.......
The king can't do chit! if the written law says he can't. Neither can parliment.
Ya man wrote the laws but did so to set down specific standards. This far and no further. Certain things are protected from abuse.
Rule of men
They change the laws as the feel they need to get the result they want.
Standards are not set and the King or whoever can make changes as they go. Nothing is protected from this.
Problem here and now for some of the people is they see the rule of man gradually destroying the rule of law.
Don't you mean "couldn't" understand?
Fluff? hmmm maybe so but for many it is, it simply is. As too God Bless America? LOL OK sounds good to me :)
Liberal bashing? Maybe? But that is the way they act far too often! Rabid screaming spit flying frothing at the mouth rants in the media etc........ And IMHO gettin tired of being classed as a criminal by these people for just wanting my rights. So a little verbal bashing may be a good thing. Maybe it's past time for a little verbal bashing? For far too long people like me have been sitting back and watching this garbage.
-
What King? Very few monarchy's have any real power these days. Your definitions aren't very relevant at all.
-
Yer nit-pickin Curval. Tsk, Tsk. You get the point, and it IS relevant.
Uganda (and the rest of Africa)
Turkmenestan, Uzbekistan
Ecuador, Columbia, Peru, Venezuela, etc
Russia
Lybia
Saudi Arabia
Somalia
UAE
China
Thailand
Cambodia
Cripes there's 50 more.. all of 'em hot spots where civil rights have been usurped and trampled upon routinely by the Goverment or Warlords at it's/their convienience.
C'mon.
-
Why did Wrag use the term King? My guess is some vague reference to places like the UK. It was rather lazsesque. I notice the UK isn't on your list though....hmmm.
-
LOL!!
Relax Curval, no need to get yer parlimentary feathers in an Uproar.. you guys eventually defanged yer King and instituted a Parlimentary Democracy; and your particular happy lil Island is a freakin paradise compared to the ****-holes where the Rule of Men is a tyrannical reality.
How'd you manage to slant this into an international pissing contest, anywho??
-
Originally posted by Hangtime
How'd you manage to slant this into an international pissing contest, anywho??
hehe
Don't be so naive Hang...these threads always end up like that. Perhaps I (forgive the expression) "jumped the gun".
;)
-
Originally posted by Curval
Why did Wrag use the term King? My guess is some vague reference to places like the UK. It was rather lazsesque. I notice the UK isn't on your list though....hmmm.
Hmmmm.........
sooooo......... hmmmmm..... you decided to take this personal?
Never mind that a King was, quite possibly, part responsible for the birth of the U.S.A. with help from a parliment that seemed to largely ignore repeated attempts by then loyal subject seeking redress????
OK! ... take off with it, REALLY GET GOING with it, here is some more ammo for it.... cause I used the term king or parliment. Lets see how creative you can get?????
Sad really, but... hmmm... seems kinda liberal? Responding to the use of the a term or a word like king is far more important then the effort put forward to explain the concept, and thus, understanding the concept is NO longer possible, or needed, or necassary, because now insult has been given.... huh?
Trying to remeber the term for that technique. Seem to recall someone giving a name to it. It IMHO is very like the child putting finger in the ears and saying LA LA LA LA very loudy to avoid hearing what is said.
I've come to hold the opinion that their are many people that don't WANT to understand that particular subject. They use many ways to avoid it. One that often works is to concentrate on ways to make the person trying to communicate angry or frustrated rather then to listen in a honest attempt to understand, or think upon what is put forward. Seems genuinely dishonest to me but.... hmmmmmmmm..... why make input to such a discussion if NO honest effort is going to made to understand?
Is It a FEAR thing? FEAR that one might actually understand? And in that understanding there may come anger at their condition?
Is this person corrcet???????????
"According to my observations, mankind are among the most easily tamable and domesticable of all creatures in the animal world. They are readily reducible to submission, so readily conditionable (to coin a word) as to exhibit and almost incredibly enduring patience under restraint and oppression of the most flagrant character. So far are they from displaying any overweening love of freedom that they show a singular contentment with a condition of servitorship, often showing a curious canine pride in it, and again often simply unaware that they are existing in that condition." ~~ Albert Jay Nock; The Memoirs of a Superfluous Man
OK i put this low because it will either be ignored or seen but please NOTE I put forward questions and made no accusations!!!!!!!! Wanna see where this goes :)
That and see if what I put here is actually read word for word or...........
-
To address the original post, the right to keep and bear arms is the one right that guarantees us all of the other ones. The government should fear the populace, not the other way around. There is no desire for revolution or civil war, but there is the ability to execute a successfull revolution because we are all afforded the right to defend ourselves against all threats, foreign and domestic, and a very large percentage of Americans take advantage of this right. We maintain the ability to stop the government from making us slaves, be it an idealogical or physical definition of the term. That is what the ones that argue against the declaration of this right don't or won't understand. It is not a matter of fear, it is not a matter of providing sustinance, it is a matter of keeping those that naturally move to ever increasing restrictions on our citizens in check by the simple fact that we as a people can repeat the history made 230 years ago.
"You know they value your freedom, liberty, and rights as much as their own AND they value highly your right to DISAGREE with them! YOU KNOW WHERE YOU STAND!"
Funny you said that. It made me realize that every single person I know that believes in strict constitutional interpretation also allows discussion without trying to overtalk, ridicule, or insult who they are talking with. Almost every liberal (not democrat) that I know refuses to listen to other ideas, resorting to interruption, insulting, or changing the subject at hand to avoid addressing problems with their beliefs.
Last comment, comparing Islamic extremists to those that profess their loyalty to the constitution of the US in a statement that offers brotherhood but promises a fight if they are wronged is simply stupid.
-
Originally posted by Lazerus
To address the original post, the right to keep and bear arms is the one right that guarantees us all of the other ones. The government should fear the populace, not the other way around. There is no desire for revolution or civil war, but there is the ability to execute a successfull revolution because we are all afforded the right to defend ourselves against all threats, foreign and domestic, and a very large percentage of Americans take advantage of this right. We maintain the ability to stop the government from making us slaves, be it an idealogical or physical definition of the term. That is what the ones that argue against the declaration of this right don't or won't understand. It is not a matter of fear, it is not a matter of providing sustinance, it is a matter of keeping those that naturally move to ever increasing restrictions on our citizens in check by the simple fact that we as a people can repeat the history made 230 years ago.
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/lmao.gif)
-
The blue wizard's hat fell off.
-
Originally posted by beet1e
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/lmao.gif)
Hmmm...........
Well guess we know where this person stands? Doing his best to change the direction of this thread. Guess this one doesn't want to discuss or even try to understand?
Sooooo we got someone trying to use one of the above misdirection techniques so they don't have to look and think????
-
Originally posted by wrag
Never mind that a King was, quite possibly, part responsible for the birth of the U.S.A. with help from a parliment that seemed to largely ignore repeated attempts by then loyal subject seeking redress????
OK! ... take off with it, REALLY GET GOING with it, here is some more ammo for it.... cause I used the term king or parliment. Lets see how creative you can get?????
Sad really, but... hmmm... seems kinda liberal? Responding to the use of the a term or a word like king is far more important then the effort put forward to explain the concept, and thus, understanding the concept is NO longer possible, or needed, or necassary, because now insult has been given.... huh?
Trying to remeber the term for that technique. Seem to recall someone giving a name to it. It IMHO is very like the child putting finger in the ears and saying LA LA LA LA very loudy to avoid hearing what is said.
I've come to hold the opinion that their are many people that don't WANT to understand that particular subject. They use many ways to avoid it. One that often works is to concentrate on ways to make the person trying to communicate angry or frustrated rather then to listen in a honest attempt to understand, or think upon what is put forward. Seems genuinely dishonest to me but.... hmmmmmmmm..... why make input to such a discussion if NO honest effort is going to made to understand?
Is It a FEAR thing? FEAR that one might actually understand? And in that understanding there may come anger at their condition?
Is this person corrcet???????????
"According to my observations, mankind are among the most easily tamable and domesticable of all creatures in the animal world. They are readily reducible to submission, so readily conditionable (to coin a word) as to exhibit and almost incredibly enduring patience under restraint and oppression of the most flagrant character. So far are they from displaying any overweening love of freedom that they show a singular contentment with a condition of servitorship, often showing a curious canine pride in it, and again often simply unaware that they are existing in that condition." ~~ Albert Jay Nock; The Memoirs of a Superfluous Man
lol Wrag.
There's no need to repeat yourself.
King = bad
Liberals = bad
Nature of man = bad
I get it.
Run for the hills and arm yourself. The man is coming.
-
For your consideration:
Mohandas K. Gandhi: "Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act of depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest. If we want the Arms Act to be repealed, if we want to learn the use of arms, here is a golden opportunity. If the middle classes render voluntary help to Government in the hour of its trial, distrust will disappear, and the ban on possessing arms will be withdrawn." Mohandas K. Gandhi, Autobiography: The Story of My Experiments with Truth, Chapter XXVII, Recruiting Campaign, Page 403, Dover paperback edition, 1983.
-
curval.. constitutionalists and libertarians love people but hate humanity... liberals and socialists love humanity but hate people.
this is how it works... those who would have power over others allways start out with "safety"... for your own good.. you will shoot yourself... then heap on a little "cost".. "it will cost everyone for one mans freedom!" (they fail to explain how that after they ban whatever it is they ban..... that costs don't go down)
next.. if you don't kneel yet they throw in... "for the children" How can anyone be against some minor loss of freedom to save the children? (they don't explain why no less children are killed or how the more money they take "for the children" the more dangerous it is for the kids and the dumber and more vicious the kids get) It takes a villiage...
and... if that doesn't work fast enough.. we gotta do it for the whales or mother earth.. we need to control your lives to save the earth.
lazs
-
I was pretty well lit when I wrote that last post, but after reading it I can't apologise or disagree with the spirit of what I wrote. I just find it ironic that the socialist from over the pond found it laughable. The sad part is the many in my country that feel the same way that he does. Fortunately, the overwhelming silent majority is waking up. Hopefully we will get back on the train of thought that made this country what it is. With any luck we will create a third party that is true to the beliefs of the people of America that make it work.
Change is a good thing. We need it.
-
you can't really argue with a socialist because.... they got nothing... if the "for your own good" or "for the children" arguement doesn't faze you then they got no power over you and they got no arguement... If you try to use facts they use "feelings"..
They got nothing.
Now, most of em realize it and are all a twitter over the conservation movement... this is their last best chance to destroy all personal rights.
Evil is wanting power over others lives. Evil is the ban and the buerocrat. Evil is thinking that people are too stupid and dangerous to run their own lives.
lazs
-
Originally posted by J_A_B
In my opinion, the biggest threat to our nation are city dwellers and surburbanites who never get out into the real world and never experience any way of life except their own sheltered existance. Call them city-slickers, yuppies, whatever you want.
Although I agree with your general sentiment (most people are so sheltered that they're never exposed to the harshness life also contains) I gotta disagree with the "real world" bit.
The world they live in is as real as the one you live in. Different aspects of the same thing.
You are biased because of your social legacy, actions and environment, as am I. I find it hard to judge people too harshly for operating according to the same rules as me (although with other variables).
Compared to the average Iraqi, I am pretty sure both of us live sheltered, comfortable lives. I'd still be bold enough to say we live in the real world though.
We try to shape our surroundings so they fit us and our group. This sometimes results in clashes with other groups. The basic mechanics in both groups is the same though.
-
Originally posted by lazs2
Evil is wanting power over others lives. Evil is the ban and the buerocrat. Evil is thinking that people are too stupid and dangerous to run their own lives.
lazs
Agreed. I'd like to add one thing though.
Evil is indifference as well. If you are indifferent to the suffering of your fellow man, it is a strong indicator of evil I think.
It is as always a balancing act. I will say this though; you cannot leglislate compassion into people. Only thing you can do is to try to create an environment where it is encouraged.
oops double post, my apologies>
-
santa.... I would agree with you. I believe that socialism is evil because of what you said... extorting help from people is evil in that it makes people more selfish... How many starved in the great depression? worse economic disaster ever in modern times... the answer? so far as anyone can tell..... nobody. People helped each other.
I would not let someone starve but I would not give one penny to the government to "help" people if I didn't have to.
Welfare hasn't made the poor better off... it has just made more poor and made people less likely to help em. "I gave at the office"
It is interesting to note that per capita, based on income... the red states give far more than the blue ones to charity.
socialism is evil.
lazs
-
"Peace Officers"--as long as ya don't confuse state troopers with 'peace officers'.... state troopers serve no purpose other than government revenue enhancement via the pockets of honest people who didnt bother to put their @$#% brakes on during a long downgrade, and didnt notice the **** with the radar gun behind the tree.....lowlifebottomfeeding knuckledraggingsonsabiches... ..but, I digress...back to your thread:mad:
-
In the town next to mine a police officer has been fired for telling the press about the cities policy of ticket "quotas" for revenue.
He will probly come out very badly even tho he has proof.. He will be made an example of.
This is simply about tickets... imagine what would happen to a cop who didn't believe in gun confiscation.
lazs