Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Wilfrid on November 28, 2005, 01:13:14 PM
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Not wanting to admit he was getting beaten, he called to Willie, "That S.O.B. is really lucky! All right, we’ll get this guy now!" With the MiG at his four o’clock, he nosed down to pick up speed and energy. Cunningham watched until the MiG pilot likewise committed his nose down. "Gotcha!" he thought, as he pulled up into the MiG, rolled over the top, got behind it. While too close to fire a missile, the maneuver placed Duke in an advantageous position.
Vietnam shootdowns (http://www.acepilots.com/vietnam/cunningham.html)
SAN DIEGO - Rep. Randy "Duke" Cunningham pleaded guilty Monday to conspiracy and tax charges, admitting taking $2.4 million in bribes in a case that grew from an investigation into the sale of his home to a wide-ranging conspiracy involving payments in cash, vacations and antiques.
Takes 2.4 mil in bribes (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051128/ap_on_go_co/congressman_s_house)
Very sad if true.
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The poster-boy of everything wrong in American politics. I hope he does time, and I hope others learn.
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Just goes to show you, being a damn good pilot, does not make you a good man.
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If Martha did time for lying while not under oath about something she did that wasn't even illegal but Clinton got a slap on the wrist for lying repeatedly under oath, and the DoD acquisitions civilian got jail time for feeding contracts to Boeing, what is Duke going to get? He has to cough up a house and some property like rugs and stuff, but the real question is how much jail time does he get?
Unless congress and the justice dept decide to make an example of him, my bet is he does little to no jail time, just like Bill Clinton.
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Heya Wilfrid! It's been a while! Are you still playing AH at all?
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Originally posted by Mickey1992
The poster-boy of everything wrong in American politics. I hope he does time, and I hope others learn.
:aok
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I didn't see this coming. (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=153118&highlight=cunningham)
;)
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Hi Dowding, it has indeed. I've been out of AH for about a year. Don't see you around these here parts too much either :D
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Originally posted by eagl
If Martha did time for lying while not under oath about something she did that wasn't even illegal but Clinton got a slap on the wrist for lying repeatedly under oath, and the DoD acquisitions civilian got jail time for feeding contracts to Boeing, what is Duke going to get? He has to cough up a house and some property like rugs and stuff, but the real question is how much jail time does he get?
Unless congress and the justice dept decide to make an example of him, my bet is he does little to no jail time, just like Bill Clinton.
Ya know... Cunningham was the chairman of the House Intelligence subcommittee on terrorism and human intelligence. You have to wonder what else Randy may have given away for money.
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Showtime 100 :( Down ...Damn Shame. To me, He was a Hero.
http://www.arance.net/end_of_the_show1.htm
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Originally posted by Sandman
Ya know... Cunningham was the chairman of the House Intelligence subcommittee on terrorism and human intelligence. You have to wonder what else Randy may have given away for money.
No, I strongly don't think he'd have gone there.
I think most likely he rationalized that he wasn't really doing anything that hurt anybody, something that manifestly could not be true if he was selling intelligence data.
I think that is positively not true, and it would have been looked at in the context of this investigation. You know they ripped his finacial records apart looking for any wrongdoing on his part.
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It's obvious this is due to post traumatic stress disorder. I say give him a pass.
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Proof that politics can ruin a good man.
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I am very dissapointed. He always seemed like a straight up guy, but I have no stomach for such blatant corruption. He needs to do the 10 years because he violated the public trust put in him, and also so others in positions of power understand there is a price to be paid for this type of action.
dago
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It is regrettable, but the only place he'll do 10 years is as a lobbyist making a million a year
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Ah man, I'd just watched an extrodinary bit about him on the History Channel, the one that details all the various Aces and all. It was a really well done, CGI and all, bio.
Sad. Certainly not the way one would like to be remembered.
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I remember when the info on the house and the investigation came out last year, everyone was adopting a "wait and see" attitude. Well, you cant get more damming than a confession. I do not believe he is a bad guy. He just couldnt resist temptation. I made the point when this first came out that many of our greatest aces were "colorful" to say the least, and didnt have the most successful of private lives. Being a hero gets you some slack in alot of things, and I really think if he had not been so obvious about it that most people really wouldnt have cared one way or the other. He just did everything big. I dont think this in any way detracts from what he did as a pilot in battle. Its just a lesson that even the best of us have weaknesses.
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I'm pretty pissed and let down about this. (I'm Conservative, and I know his history)
Still, its refreshing to see the guy take responsibility and refrain from the song and dance.
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Originally posted by Gunthr
Still, its refreshing to see the guy take responsibility and refrain from the song and dance.
I'd like to see it that way, but......
He didn't "take responsibility" until he was 100% going down in flames. Now he has a plea agreement and is testifying against his co-conspirators.
After what he did pull I have serious doubts that he'd being doing what he is if he thought he might get off.
Examples from the Pleae Agreement:
a. On or about May 1, 2000 Coconspirator No. 1 paid $70,000 (with personal check no. 1039) to defendant, which defendant deposited into his personal back account at Union Bank of California in San Diego County, California;
b. On or about May 1, 2000, Coconspirator No. 1 paid $30,000 (with personal check no. 1040 to defendant, which defendent deposited into his personal bank account at Congressional Federal Credit Union in Washington, D.C.;
That is blatant stuff, not this quasi hidden property stuff, but blunt bribery. In the Plea Agreement it goes on from "a." to "zz."
PDF of the Plea Agreement (http://news.findlaw.com/wp/docs/crim/uscnnghm112805plea.pdf)
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yup I'm fairly dissillusioned. who woulda thunk it. I have to agree with karnak on this, it seems if he thought he might skate he woulda kept denying the charges. he should do time.
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Originally posted by rpm
Proof that politics can ruin a good man.
Yup or he was ruined from the begining and somone said his hero status "would make him a shoe in for politics"
Either way the guy is a crook and a hero at the same time. Can't deminish from it.
Good people have an image of combat "heros" as good wholesome people.....of wich many are. But keep in mind "a Hero in combat is often a coward that got cornered" I don't know who said that but I remember reading while reading about a guy that won a silver star.
Not to say this applies directly to Cunningham, the guy is an Ace and a big one at that. I'm really dissapointed to learn this and think what RPM here says is valid in this situation. Ok i'm not sure where I'm going with this, Cunningham is a Hero and a crook at the same time.....but still a hero.
A bunch of Air Force Brass over dinner once asked him what's best way the USAF can improve it's K/D ration in air to air combat in 'nam.
Cunningham's answer was something to the effect "use navy pilots"
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Originally posted by Karnak
I'd like to see it that way, but......
He didn't "take responsibility" until he was 100% going down in flames. Now he has a plea agreement and is testifying against his co-conspirators.
After what he did pull I have serious doubts that he'd being doing what he is if he thought he might get off.
Examples from the Pleae Agreement:
That is blatant stuff, not this quasi hidden property stuff, but blunt bribery. In the Plea Agreement it goes on from "a." to "zz."
PDF of the Plea Agreement (http://news.findlaw.com/wp/docs/crim/uscnnghm112805plea.pdf)
well either way today he went in front of the mics and cameras and in a tear filled speech admited that he did wrong and violated the publics trust. Refreshing indeed.
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(http://www.washington.edu/alumni/columns/dec98/boyington.jpg) "Show me a hero, and I'll show you a bum."
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http://dukecunningham.org/
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He passed for over 29,000 yards and has 35 rushing TD's.
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Most of Americans pointing fingers, feeding the witchunt, are probably stealing cable TV.:confused:
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:lol I'm probably the exception, but I've never met anyone who stole cable TV...
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Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy
Most of Americans pointing fingers, feeding the witchunt, are probably stealing cable TV.:confused:
how would you steal cable TV for very long? why would you put yourself in a situation that could be potentially embarrassing for a few pennies per month? it must be a french thing. :D
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Originally posted by storch
how would you steal cable TV for very long? why would you put yourself in a situation that could be potentially embarrassing for a few pennies per month? it must be a french thing. :D
A few pennies? My cable bil is $140 a month.
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Originally posted by ASTAC
A few pennies? My cable bil is $140 a month.
Ease up on the porn. ;)
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It's a shame that a man that has accomplished so much in the past (not just in the Navy either) has to throw it all away for some money.
I appreciate and applaud that he had the moral fortitude to admit he committed an offense and take responsibility for it. Quite refreshing given another administrations actions about responsibility. For that I can respect the man, not the offense he committed.
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Originally posted by ASTAC
A few pennies? My cable bil is $140 a month.
ok then does that justify theft? BTW mine is around US$60.00 for satellite.
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Originally posted by Maverick
It's a shame that a man that has accomplished so much in the past (not just in the Navy either) has to throw it all away for some money.
I appreciate and applaud that he had the moral fortitude to admit he committed an offense and take responsibility for it. Quite refreshing given another administrations actions about responsibility. For that I can respect the man, not the offense he committed.
Yer joking right?
Go look at the record on this one. He kept denying it until they nailed him... responsibility my rear.
Oh and... $2.5 million > BJ.
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What a shame. I used to have a high regard for the man.
This gives us just a little insight into what the politics of this country have become.
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Originally posted by ChickenHawk
This gives us just a little insight into what the politics of this country have become.
I suspect that there have always been corrupt politicians. This is not new.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Oh and... $2.5 million > BJ.
nope. the ramifications of that infamous act of oval office fellatio is that by an overwhelming majority teenage girls now view oral sex as not being sex. so getting a tubesteak toothbrushing is now no big deal. secondly he is, or was, just a congressman not the President of the United States of America.
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Originally posted by storch
nope. the ramifications of that infamous act of oval office fellatio is that by an overwhelming majority teenage girls now view oral sex as not being sex. so getting a tubesteak toothbrushing is now no big deal.
Clinton didn't set that standard. It's been around for quite some time.
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Originally posted by storch
nope. the ramifications of that infamous act of oval office fellatio is that by an overwhelming majority teenage girls now view oral sex as not being sex. so getting a tubesteak toothbrushing is now no big deal. secondly he is, or was, just a congressman not the President of the United States of America.
Agreed ... $2.5 million > Presidential BJ > Congressional BJ
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Hi GTO,
Originally posted by GtoRA2
Just goes to show you, being a damn good pilot, does not make you a good man.
Very true, and very insightful.
In my time in Washington, I quickly found that power and money had a horribly corrupting influence that extended to both sides of the aisle, and that unless a man or woman in and of themselves had a strong conscience, a clear ability to dilineate between good and evil, and a committment to doing what was right rather than what was expedient regardless of the consequences, they would inevitably fall prey to all kinds of petty corruption. Nothing in their past life will safeguard them from that - regardless of whether they were a war hero or a school librarian.
A famous, but probably apocryphal, exchange attributed to Winston Churchill sheds a lot of light on what goes on in Washington D.C. As the story goes, Churchill asked a woman if she would sleep with him for a million pounds, to which she answered, "yes, I probably would." He then asked her if she would sleep with him for 5 pounds, to which she answered "Of course not, just what do you think I am!" To which Churchill answered, "Madam, we have already established that, now we are haggling over the price." The point is, if you go to Washington, and you have a price, trust me, someone will find it. You don't even need to go looking for temptation in politics, it will come calling on you.
- SEAGOON
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The point is, if you go to Washington, and you have a price, trust me, someone will find it. You don't even need to go looking for temptation in politics, it will come calling on you.
- SEAGOON
Another darn good reason for me never to go into politics.
I'd take every dollar anyone was willing to give me. :)
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edited
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Originally posted by storch
nope. the ramifications of that infamous act of oval office fellatio is that by an overwhelming majority teenage girls now view oral sex as not being sex. so getting a tubesteak toothbrushing is now no big deal. secondly he is, or was, just a congressman not the President of the United States of America.
Beejers haven't counted as sex for a long time... since I was around 16. ;)
ed: Oh, and Cunningham is a great example of everything that's wrong with this country's government. Lock his bellybutton up. One down, 434 to go.
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Roma Victor.
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Originally posted by Tarmac
Beejers haven't counted as sex for a long time... since I was around 16. ;)
ed: Oh, and Cunningham is a great example of everything that's wrong with this country's government. Lock his bellybutton up. One down, 434 to go.
that was when, last week?
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Midnight,
I didn't realize that clintoon was your personal hero and life guide. As to the cost, had clintoon bothered to have a fraction of the responsibility that Duke showed there would have been far less cost during his administration. It seems that his lack of ethics is still as strong as ever. He is still blaming everyone but himself for his presidential record.
Cunningham for his faults, which are significant and inexcusable, is still heads and shoulders above clintoon. He admitted his failure in a court of law and then resigned as a felon should, unlike your hero.
Had clintoon admitted he screwed up I could honestly respect him. Instead he dragged the country through an investigation for an act he could have stood up like a man and admitted instead of lying, including under oath. Perjury is still a felony. His legacy is that he is a spineless liar and nothing much else.
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Originally posted by Maverick
Midnight,
I didn't realize that clintoon was your personal hero and life guide. As to the cost, had clintoon bothered to have a fraction of the responsibility that Duke showed there would have been far less cost during his administration. It seems that his lack of ethics is still as strong as ever. He is still blaming everyone but himself for his presidential record.
Cunningham for his faults, which are significant and inexcusable, is still heads and shoulders above clintoon. He admitted his failure in a court of law and then resigned as a felon should, unlike your hero.
Had clintoon admitted he screwed up I could honestly respect him. Instead he dragged the country through an investigation for an act he could have stood up like a man and admitted instead of lying, including under oath. Perjury is still a felony. His legacy is that he is a spineless liar and nothing much else.
that pretty much sums it up for most American Men. :rofl at the clintoon thing, hadn't heard that one before.
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Originally posted by storch
that was when, last week?
sometimes I wish. :)
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Originally posted by storch
that pretty much sums it up for most American Men.
Most American men where?
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Originally posted by Maverick
Midnight,
I didn't realize that clintoon was your personal hero and life guide. .
Jeeez Mav. Where you been?
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Originally posted by Maverick
Midnight,
I didn't realize that clintoon was your personal hero and life guide. As to the cost, had clintoon bothered to have a fraction of the responsibility that Duke showed there would have been far less cost during his administration. It seems that his lack of ethics is still as strong as ever. He is still blaming everyone but himself for his presidential record.
Cunningham for his faults, which are significant and inexcusable, is still heads and shoulders above clintoon. He admitted his failure in a court of law and then resigned as a felon should, unlike your hero.
Had clintoon admitted he screwed up I could honestly respect him. Instead he dragged the country through an investigation for an act he could have stood up like a man and admitted instead of lying, including under oath. Perjury is still a felony. His legacy is that he is a spineless liar and nothing much else.
You're right. Lying about a blowjob is way WAY worse than taking $2.4 million in bribes.
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Sandy,
It's not just that he lied, it's that he showed himself incapable of telling the truth until compelled by overwhelming evidence. It's also that he lied under oath.
I realize that there are quite a few folks who do not think that is a bad thing, I do.
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I don't think he should have lied either. He should have had the balls to tell the court to piss off.
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Why did he have to go under oath for a blow job in the first place? Without knowing the facts, it's even more disturbing than lying about it.
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The BJ came to light in the PJ harrasment case. He was sworn in talking about Paula, not Monica.
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Originally posted by Sandman
I don't think he should have lied either. He should have had the balls to tell the court to piss off.
if he had stepped up to the plate and admitted the multiple affairs without hesitation or remorse everyone would have understood and few would have condemned him and many would have applauded him. we all have foibles. looking at hilary every day must be tough, but listening to her every day is surely unbearable. lamentably what he demonstrated is that he has no balls and ultimately that he's not very bright either. all of these factors combined to make him an excellent democrat and the darling of yurapee'ns, NOW and liberal women everywhere. That's why they all love him so, they have almost all things in common. :D
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I find it odd that Cunningham didnt even try to hide the fact that he was taking bribes, I wouldnt think that he is a stupid man..that seems to leave arrogance.
I hope that McCain doesnt fold to pressure in his current investigation..it will probably make Abscam look like pitching pennies.
shamus