Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Furious on November 29, 2005, 11:48:32 AM
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Why not engage?
Why not engage after you have "extended" to 3.5?
Why not engage when you have the advantage (altitude, speed, aircraft performance, etc.)
If you are heavy otw to target, ok, I get that. If you have 5 guys behind you, ok, I get that. But the ultra timid flyer running when the cards are stacked in his favour, that I don't get.
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Score mongers coupled with poor pilots who will never get better because all they can do is run and look for AFK planes on climbout.
My guess anyways.
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Well, on the last map before this one, there was always a big fight over 41. Every time I'd go out there, there's be 50+ enemy cons heading South to the island field (52?). I'd come from 44, so have a bit of time to climb out. I'd arrive over water near 41 at 10k (not too high), and see no less than 2 dozen low-alt cons heading S. Seeing that I'm usually in a 190a5 there's no way in hell I'm trading my safety to go into instant death at the hands of no less than 5 LAs, 6 spits, assorted 38s and 51s and even though those 3x formations of b24s are tempting I'd never survive to even get into guns range. In THAT instance I'm just going to turn back home, descend, come in lower and try to lure a small chunk of the horde off (say, just 5-6 planes) that I might someday, if I'm having the best day of my life, be able to cope with.
Sometimes they're not running from you, sometimes they're running from all the friends you have with you.
Other times they're just LA7 dweebs that don't bother engaging.
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Originally posted by Furious
Why not engage?
Why not engage after you have "extended" to 3.5?
Why not engage when you have the advantage (altitude, speed, aircraft performance, etc.)
If you are heavy otw to target, ok, I get that. If you have 5 guys behind you, ok, I get that. But the ultra timid flyer running when the cards are stacked in his favour, that I don't get.
Because the reward in the game has become the "attaboys" for landing a bunch of vulch kills, along with the 'score' and the perks.
The reward isn't to get locked into a fight that you might die in, because you won't get an "attaboy' for dying if you make a mistake.
Kinda sad really
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I say its alot of new pilots not really sure of what to do. I know when I first started in the MA I kinda just flew around watching and learning. Didnt want to engage in case I did something "wrong" . Wasent really sure about all the rules and such.
Who knows?
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Guppy to me the reward is to get home safely. Even if I have only 5 assists and no kills. Even if I never fired a shot (sadly that happens a lot). The reward for me is that "you have successfully landed" notice. Hey if I get a score once in a while that's great. Rarely do I get "wtfg" when I get a few kills, and I don't mind/care. I think people get carried away with that mentality. The score notice is nice, but it only means something to the pilot that earned it. Every time I see "xxxx landed 12 victories of an f4u1c" I think "how much of those were vulches?". And I'm probably right. On the other hand, when *I* see my name saying 4 victories, I can say "3 of those I earned!" to myself. So the score should stay, I like it enough for that, but my main reason for the mission is to go out, engage the enemy, and return safely. I will limp home for a sector, glide 20 miles with a dead engine from 15k, ditch gear up so I don't slide off the runway, all when I've got no kills to "display".
But then I might be the odd duck.
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My reward is fame, fortune, and hot women!
Thanks, Aces High!!!
-- Todd/Leviathn
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So... you're still waiting for the reward, then?
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Originally posted by Krusty
Rarely do I get "wtfg" when I get a few kills
That's because nobody likes you. :huh
Amen Furious.... it is getting old.
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
My reward is fame, fortune, and hot women!
Thanks, Aces High!!!
-- Todd/Leviathn
:lol
Are there any hot men out there for me?
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Hot men? Very few. Lukewarm boys? Gobs of 'em, mostly in the MA >:D
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Originally posted by Krusty
Guppy to me the reward is to get home safely. Even if I have only 5 assists and no kills. Even if I never fired a shot (sadly that happens a lot). The reward for me is that "you have successfully landed" notice. Hey if I get a score once in a while that's great. Rarely do I get "wtfg" when I get a few kills, and I don't mind/care. I think people get carried away with that mentality. The score notice is nice, but it only means something to the pilot that earned it. Every time I see "xxxx landed 12 victories of an f4u1c" I think "how much of those were vulches?". And I'm probably right. On the other hand, when *I* see my name saying 4 victories, I can say "3 of those I earned!" to myself. So the score should stay, I like it enough for that, but my main reason for the mission is to go out, engage the enemy, and return safely. I will limp home for a sector, glide 20 miles with a dead engine from 15k, ditch gear up so I don't slide off the runway, all when I've got no kills to "display".
But then I might be the odd duck.
You and me both. :aok
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Originally posted by Krusty
Guppy to me the reward is to get home safely. Even if I have only 5 assists and no kills. Even if I never fired a shot (sadly that happens a lot). The reward for me is that "you have successfully landed" notice. Hey if I get a score once in a while that's great. Rarely do I get "wtfg" when I get a few kills, and I don't mind/care. I think people get carried away with that mentality. The score notice is nice, but it only means something to the pilot that earned it. Every time I see "xxxx landed 12 victories of an f4u1c" I think "how much of those were vulches?". And I'm probably right. On the other hand, when *I* see my name saying 4 victories, I can say "3 of those I earned!" to myself. So the score should stay, I like it enough for that, but my main reason for the mission is to go out, engage the enemy, and return safely. I will limp home for a sector, glide 20 miles with a dead engine from 15k, ditch gear up so I don't slide off the runway, all when I've got no kills to "display".
But then I might be the odd duck.
I'd agree with you in a scenario, where living makes a difference. The MA is what it is and my dying while trying to get better is a better reward then landing. Sometimes I actually win the fight too which feels even better.
Does that mean I never land? Nope. If the fight dries up and I'm still alive, or if the ammo is gone, I'll go home, but since no one really dies and planes are free, I might as well take a shot even if it's me that ends up in little pieces, which happens more often then not :)
I'm not telling you how to fly the game btw. That's your call. But I do believe the emphasis for way too many is to see their name in lights with those 8 vulches attached.
I don't know that it will ever change either, but to each his own.
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what Sand said.
Hap
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Originally posted by Guppy35
I'd agree with you in a scenario, where living makes a difference. The MA is what it is and my dying while trying to get better is a better reward then landing. Sometimes I actually win the fight too which feels even better.
Does that mean I never land? Nope. If the fight dries up and I'm still alive, or if the ammo is gone, I'll go home, but since no one really dies and planes are free, I might as well take a shot even if it's me that ends up in little pieces, which happens more often then not :)
I'm not telling you how to fly the game btw. That's your call. But I do believe the emphasis for way too many is to see their name in lights with those 8 vulches attached.
I don't know that it will ever change either, but to each his own.
Even in the MA, flying to live is the only way to go for some of us. With this mindset, I get more excitement than I would if I didn't care about dying. Scenarios just heighten the excitement because no one is fighting simply for the sake of fighting. There's an objective and more than just notional penalties for failure.
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Originally posted by Sandman
Even in the MA, flying to live is the only way to go for some of us. With this mindset, I get more excitement than I would if I didn't care about dying. Scenarios just heighten the excitement because no one is fighting simply for the sake of fighting. There's an objective and more than just notional penalties for failure.
Does that mean you engage only if the advantage is completely one sided in your favor? Do you ever put yourself in a position where you are at the disadvantage?
Not asking that sarcastically, just wondering.
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If I see a con that's 3k directly above me I will try to move out of the way and reengage on a slighly more balanced footing. If I see a con that's higher than me but far enough out (like 3k or so) then I'll make an attack and if that fails I can always lure them down onto my terms. Flying to live doesn't mean (for me) avoiding conflict. It just means I don't HAVE to dive into that ball of 12 red planes on the deck if I don't have any chance whatsoever of getting a shot off before being killed. On the other hand, when I see one lone green caught in that 12-red mass, I will go in even if it's just to distract the enemy to clear the friendly's six. Do I always? No. Do I often? Yes.
It's just a game. Making it back to field is the reward for me, but if I don't I can try again. And again. And again. Risks are part of the game, and I've had many a good fight with other players. Doesn't negate that I still enjoy the thrill of landing at the end of it.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Does that mean you engage only if the advantage is completely one sided in your favor? Do you ever put yourself in a position where you are at the disadvantage?
Didn't you know, Dan? Historically nobody ever, ever, ever flew at a disadvantage because that would get them killed. That includes the people who had to fight all the people who flew with advantages.
Hm... wait... does not compute.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Well... I won't actively seek a disadvantage at the merge. I'd rather have an advantage, but I'll take neutral merge when I can get it.
Now, if you're talking strictly numbers, I won't wade in 1 versus 3 (or more) unless I have some good energy going in and an exit already planned. So, I may be at a disadvantage in numbers, but the energy can equalize somewhat.
On the other hand, going into a fight with a 3v1 advantage isn't all that challenging (or fun).
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Originally posted by Sandman
On the other hand, going into a fight with a 3v1 advantage isn't all that challenging (or fun).
Agreed. Often I'll just keep going when I see that. No fun to waste all that time and effort jockeying for a kill (even if you can get it) when clearly it's being dealt with already.
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Didn't you know, Dan? Historically nobody ever, ever, ever flew at a disadvantage because that would get them killed. That includes the people who had to fight all the people who flew with advantages.
Hm... wait... does not compute.
-- Todd/Leviathn
That's a distortion of the survivalist mentality. Everyone fights at a disadvantage alot, it's inevitable. In an arena with 400'ish people you are going to get caught with your pants down around your ankles plenty in situations beyond your control. The difference is a survivalist will not intentionally fight at a disadvantage in situations that are within his control.
Zazen
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Originally posted by Zazen13
The difference is a survivalist will not intentionally fight at a disadvantage in situations that are within his control.
Which basically goes to the heart of what I stated: it is not historically accurate. It's a fine way to fly if you so desire, but that's about it. Then again, you already knew that. :)
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by Zazen13
That's a distortion of the survivalist mentality. Everyone fights at a disadvantage alot, it's inevitable. In an arena with 400'ish people you are going to get caught with your pants down around your ankles plenty in situations beyond your control. The difference is a survivalist will not intentionally fight at a disadvantage in situations that are within his control.
Zazen
So if the dar bar is bigger for the bad guys in a sector you don't go up?
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maybe for zazen, but not for me lol
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well sometimes i fly at a disadvantage because that's the only way to get a lot of players to engage in the first place.
plus i'm extremely confident even when fighting from a "disadvantage" no matter what plane i am in or up against.
alt, speed, #'s and planes are just tools that can be used for *or* against someone. unfortunately, there are also simply just a lot of "tools" in the skies.
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I have no problem with new guys flying timid since they really don't know what's going on. However, the guys Furious is talking about are mostly not noobs. These guys are the l337 scoring bnz types that know the game very well, that only engage when an enemy isn't looking or is engaged w/ multiple bandits, or just flat out only look to vulch. Make no mistake, these guys are seasoned vets that do this. And we all know who they are.
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Originally posted by Stang
Make no mistake, these guys are seasoned vets that do this. And we all know who they are.
AHers or the Bengals?
:rofl
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I'm sure I've posted on this sort of topic a million times but I will do so again for the sake of this discussion. As most know I am a survivalist, let me define that for you. A survivalist is a person who seeks to sustain his life through adversity however possible. Allow me to illustrate how I think it, I abide by these laws everytime I take-off in a fighter it's kind of like the 3 laws of robotics:
1) Engage the enemy in an effort to preserve my life and the lives of my squad/teammates.
2) Destroy enemy aircraft as long as it does not conflict with the first law.
3) Fascilitate the strategic objectives and goals of my Country/Squadron within the context of the area I am fighting so long as it does not conflict with the first two laws.
So, we can summarize my laws as Life, Death and Country/Squadron in that order. I have played with these three laws in different orders but none are as fun to me as 1) Life, 2) Death, 3) Country. The game takes on an added excitement factor when self-infused with a genuine fear of dying. Yes, I suppose this makes a person more timid, but prudently so, selectively timid is the same as selectively aggressive. Blindly aggressive is the same as reckless abandon, blindly timid is the same as cowardice. So there is a constant balance.
One thing I know about myself is I fight better when I care about dying. By that I mean, yes, I am more descriminating in my engagements but even when caught at a disadvatage I really, really want to live so fly like my pants are on fire. The old saying desperation is the mother of invention applies. When I am flying with no concern for my virtual demise I am not so inspired, I'll get lazy and do things that I would not normally do just because I am not thinking of the outcome. For example, I will latch onto someone's 6 who did something dweeby to me this hop or the last and make sure I kill him even if it means letting one of his buddies kill me. This I would not do if I was flying to survive. Flying with no concern for dying makes for very unrealistic fights. I'm doubting many pilots were willing to accept certain death just to knock another plane down if they had other alternatives.
Just because people are running don't assume they are cowards or even survivalists. People do run out of ammunition and gas, people do like to egress from a fight to regain some altitude before re-engaging, people do like to return to base after they get several kills, people do not like to blow the E required to reverse 180 degrees into an enemy who is conserving E some distance away on their 6 o' clock. These are all facts and reasons to leave a fight even if there are co-alt/co-E planes that wish to engage them.
Flying to survive does not mean you do not fight at a disadvantage. Flying to survive simply requires you not fight at a disadvantage if other options are available. I don't care how good you are in this game as a survivalist or not you are going to find yourself at a disdvantage ALOT. There is always a balance between getting kills and making yourself vulnerable to attack, everytime you engage you are making yourself vulnerable to attack in some way. Show me a survivalist who never fights at a disadvantage and I'll show you a career vulcher or a guy who gets very,very few kills few per unit time so is basically harmless anyways. We all fight at a disdvantage, the difference is a survivalist doesn't go out of his way to put himself in situations of disadvantage.
Zazen
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I just like to kill stuff and see it blow up. That's fun.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by Stang
I have no problem with new guys flying timid since they really don't know what's going on. However, the guys Furious is talking about are mostly not noobs. These guys are the l337 scoring bnz types that know the game very well, that only engage when an enemy isn't looking or is engaged w/ multiple bandits, or just flat out only look to vulch. Make no mistake, these guys are seasoned vets that do this. And we all know who they are.
This is true and these are the guys that have gotten intoxicated by the 'attaboys' for landing 8-10 kills every run. It's clearly not unique to AH, as score mongers exist in any game. I'm sure the old AW types can immediately name the guys who did it back then. Part of the problem is these guys help set the tone for anyone new coming in and the goal becomes getting that 'attaboy' for landing so many kills.
I had one of those guys get me twice yesterday when I was defending a base with a couple of good guys. Multiple bad guys above us and the guy that got me would never engage unless I was busy with others. Each time I was turning with 3 of his buds and he blazed through in his P47N from on high and got me. He later landed 6 kills to a chorus of 'attaboys'. At no point was he a part of the fight until I was low and slow with his buddies.
If that's how he wants to play it, so be it. It's his dime. But I do believe it's that emphasis on getting "wtg!" from landing many kills that sucks people in.
Funny how you don't see it for a couple of landed kills. Chances are the guy actually earned those. It's for the 8-12 vulches that the 'attaboys' rain down.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Funny how you don't see it for a couple of landed kills. Chances are the guy actually earned those. It's for the 8-12 vulches that the 'attaboys' rain down.
That's just the sound of insecurity seeking validation via proxy.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
So if the dar bar is bigger for the bad guys in a sector you don't go up?
I'd never base my decision to fly in an area or not on dar bars. You just have to fly accordingly. I'd much rather be the only green with ten red guys around than one of ten green with one bad guy around. You just have to fly accordingly. I do not vulch, so often when cap is established at a base I'll fly alone to the enemy base re-enforcements are coming from to interdict, often I will be the only green in the sector.
Zazen
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Originally posted by Furious
Why not engage?
You might get shot down.
Why not engage after you have "extended" to 3.5? [/QUOTE]
b/c you must extend to 3.5 K AND have a 10K alt advantage
Why not engage when you have the advantage (altitude, speed, aircraft performance, etc.)[/QUOTE]
b/c you might lose that advantage by engaging
If you are heavy otw to target, ok, I get that. If you have 5 guys behind you, ok, I get that. But the ultra timid flyer running when the cards are stacked in his favour, that I don't get. [/QUOTE]
and they mostly seem to be in Spit 16's these days...
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Originally posted by BKKing
and they mostly seem to be in Spit 16's these days...
:huh
I haven't been on in a few days, but did the Spit16s go from fighting to running? Thus far the Spit16 has been a refreshing change from all the La-7s et al that used their high speed to run at will.
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Originally posted by Karnak
:huh
I haven't been on in a few days, but did the Spit16s go from fighting to running? Thus far the Spit16 has been a refreshing change from all the La-7s et al that used their high speed to run at will.
I think that's part of the issue, half the guys in Spit16s are converted La7 pilots, so still fly like they are in the La7.
Zazen
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i'm weird cuz i fly an la-7 like i fly a spitXVI.
:aok
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Originally posted by Elyeh
I say its alot of new pilots not really sure of what to do. I know when I first started in the MA I kinda just flew around watching and learning. Didnt want to engage in case I did something "wrong" . Wasent really sure about all the rules and such.
Who knows?
Doing something wrong is the only way you're going to learn.
Fight, win/die, evaluate, re-up.
Btw, I see this thread as becoming another Zazen thread where he throws his hands in the air justifying lame tard cherry picking runners. He already wrote one essay. Im waiting for the next.
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Originally posted by Morpheus
Btw, I see this thread as becoming another Zazen thread where he throws his hands in the air justifying lame tard cherry picking runners. He already wrote one essay. Im waiting for the next.
Don't tempt me! :O
Zazen
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Originally posted by Krusty
Well, on the last map before this one, there was always a big fight over 41. Every time I'd go out there, there's be 50+ enemy cons heading South to the island field (52?). I'd come from 44, so have a bit of time to climb out. I'd arrive over water near 41 at 10k (not too high), and see no less than 2 dozen low-alt cons heading S. Seeing that I'm usually in a 190a5 there's no way in hell I'm trading my safety to go into instant death at the hands of no less than 5 LAs, 6 spits, assorted 38s and 51s and even though those 3x formations of b24s are tempting I'd never survive to even get into guns range. In THAT instance I'm just going to turn back home, descend, come in lower and try to lure a small chunk of the horde off (say, just 5-6 planes) that I might someday, if I'm having the best day of my life, be able to cope with.
Sometimes they're not running from you, sometimes they're running from all the friends you have with you.
Other times they're just LA7 dweebs that don't bother engaging.
LMAO it's not the ladweebs that run, it's the 190 twit's! hee hee :-)
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This is true and these are the guys that have gotten intoxicated by the 'attaboys' for landing 8-10 kills every run.
Hell Dan, they get to have their names on the front page of Hitechcreations Website if they score potato enough.
I always say, get a good rank in aces high, take a screen shot of that chit, print it out on little business cards and hand that watermelon out at any of your local bars and or clubs to the chicas. They dig it. A 133t aces high score jockey.
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Originally posted by Stang
I have no problem with new guys flying timid since they really don't know what's going on. However, the guys Furious is talking about are mostly not noobs. These guys are the l337 scoring bnz types that know the game very well, that only engage when an enemy isn't looking or is engaged w/ multiple bandits, or just flat out only look to vulch. Make no mistake, these guys are seasoned vets that do this. And we all know who they are.
Damn, my covers blown!:( :eek:
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Originally posted by Shane
well sometimes i fly at a disadvantage because that's the only way to get a lot of players to engage in the first place.
plus i'm extremely confident even when fighting from a "disadvantage" no matter what plane i am in or up against.
alt, speed, #'s and planes are just tools that can be used for *or* against someone. unfortunately, there are also simply just a lot of "tools" in the skies.
Most are just twit's!:D
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hit sprites
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Shane, the la7 for you is a crutch.
I'm not going to tell people how to fly. But I will say this. If you land kills in any spitfire, la7, niki or hurri, and still think you are some "great pilot" at this game, then you have problems.
Go ahead, get kills in those plane, do whatever you need to to compete with other pilots at different skill levels, just don't think for a second that you are a great pilot in AH.
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You're not truly great until someone accuses you of cheating. :)
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Originally posted by Kermit de frog
Shane, the la7 for you is a crutch.
I'm not going to tell people how to fly. But I will say this. If you land kills in any spitfire, la7, niki or hurri, and still think you are some "great pilot" at this game, then you have problems.
Go ahead, get kills in those plane, do whatever you need to to compete with other pilots at different skill levels, just don't think for a second that you are a great pilot in AH.
ROTFL
spare me.
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Originally posted by Sandman
You're not truly great until someone accuses you of cheating. :)
Still waitin for that day, aren't ya...
;)
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and waiting........
and waiting............
and waiting.................
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Originally posted by Kermit de frog
Shane, the la7 for you is a crutch.
I'm not going to tell people how to fly. But I will say this. If you land kills in any spitfire, la7, niki or hurri, and still think you are some "great pilot" at this game, then you have problems.
Go ahead, get kills in those plane, do whatever you need to to compete with other pilots at different skill levels, just don't think for a second that you are a great pilot in AH.
i do the same thing in whatever plane i fly. the la7 just allows me to chase down runners and deal with hordemonkeys such as yourself in a quicker manner.
any time you wanna see how you measure up in your plane of choice, just ask.
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Originally posted by Stang
Still waitin for that day, aren't ya...
;)
Not really. I have a life.
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Without risks, you have no rewards. Those that think making it back to base is a reward are just fooling themselves into thinking they've accomplished something.
I'd rather risk it all and take out 5 with me as I go down then to wimper back home without even have given a mean face to someone.
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You presume too much lazersailor. You presume "enjoying making it home after a mission" means "hiding and running from every enemy."
Well check my score (Krusty1) I do okay. I also enjoy making it home after a mission. To me, those that are so die-hard furballers are the type that wouldn't bat an eye at HOing 50 planes in a row and ramming one then reupping and doing it again. It takes no effort. You have disdain for those that like to land? I have disdain for those that don't find it necessary.
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I have disdain for those who refuse to put themselves in any sort of danger.
I can up and make it back to base every single time. But there's no challenge in this. There's no challenge in picking fights I am guaranteed to win. There's no challenge in running away from a fight if you have the ability.
Though, this does have another word this is often referred to as.
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Again, you presume too much. Nobody said that these things are associated with the thrill of landing after a mission. You just assumed that only cowards do as much. You sir are wrong in that respect.
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A. Fight everything.
B. Fight selectively.
C. Fight nothing.
You guys make it sound as if there are only two categories, A and C. The typical "survivalist" is neither.
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Originally posted by Sandman
A. Fight everything.
B. Fight selectively.
C. Fight nothing.
You guys make it sound as if there are only two categories, A and C. The typical "survivalist" is neither.
Precisely. :aok Being selectively aggressive is being aggressive at the right time in the right place and is really an extension of Situational Awareness. You have to judge multiple E states correctly in an instant and judge multiple planes' intentions friendly and enemy accurately at a glance, knowing intuitively when to press the attack and when to consolidate your E and position to re-evaluate the situation. This is quite the mental workout in a complex multi-plane engagement. If you misjudge any single factor one instant you may be back in the tower the very next instant.
Not to take anything away from the Spit jocks that pick a foe, latch onto his 6 and hammer away until someone is dead all but oblivious to everything else,but that does not require nearly the same degree of continuous mental accuity and vigilance. Certainly it requires some flying skill, good manual dexterity and reflexes.
I'm not judging survivalism vs. any other mode of play. I am just of the opinion that flying just to 'blow stuff up' with no regard for making sure you yourself are not one of the things 'blown up' is far more simple than flying to 'blow stuff up' and also keep from getting yourself 'blown up' in the process.
As a survivalist there is always a precarious balance between living and killing. Fly too safe and you live of course but you do not kill. Succumb to the reckless abandon of blind aggression and you kill but will not live. It's maintaining this equilibrium in a typcial chaotic and dynamically changing MA engagement that makes survivalism an interesting way to approach the game.
Zazen
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You have nothing to gain from flying and dying but eternal glory. Nothing happens if you die. Nothing happens if you live.
But the memories live on forever when you really push the envelope, when you risk it all, when you realize you might not make it back, yet you still fight harder.
Anything but this is cowardice.
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Here's the thing though... If you're not trying to live, you're risking absolutely nothing.
Cowardice... in a video game. That's rich. :rofl
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You're not pilots practicing skilled ACMs, ... you're gamers twisting joysticks to entertain yourselves... some find fun where others don't.
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Originally posted by x0847Marine
You're not pilots practicing skilled ACMs, ... you're gamers twisting joysticks to entertain yourselves... some find fun where others don't.
ROTFLMFAO
Yessssssssssssssssssss!
I knew you would reply to this thread. I KNEW IT!
hahaha let the partay begin.
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Originally posted by x0847Marine
You're not pilots practicing skilled ACMs, ... you're gamers twisting joysticks to entertain yourselves... some find fun where others don't.
:aok
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bombers can't run Mr Dot Double Dot.
You have Geos to cash. Be gone.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
You have nothing to gain from flying and dying but eternal glory. Nothing happens if you die. Nothing happens if you live.
But the memories live on forever when you really push the envelope, when you risk it all, when you realize you might not make it back, yet you still fight harder.
Anything but this is cowardice.
Nothing makes me 'push the envelope' more than fear of dying. When I fly with no fear of dying I really don't give a crap about the outcome, I get lazy and careless, if I don't fly well and die, who cares, fresh plane for me. I learn alot more fighting my bellybutton off to live thru a fight than I do when I don't care about my virtual fate.
Zazen
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teh be scared of meh...
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Originally posted by Morpheus
bombers can't run Mr Dot Double Dot.
You have Geos to cash. Be gone.
You're up late for a school night, boy. You should run along before your mom gets pissed.
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lol oh so clever as always sandy.
Coming from a guy who cashes minerals for fun. :aok
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Originally posted by Morpheus
Coming from a guy who cashes minerals for fun. :aok
Minerals?
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Don't forget the gang bang factor ... if you're in a sector and the dar bars show odds are against you, you know that if you engage and get slow you'll just end up getting swarmed. And a lot of the people you'd "engage" will just run to their buddies when you do ... so you get swarmed.
If you wanna attract enemy fighters fly a Yak or P47 ... at least that's what I've noticed.
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had a guy tonight come screaming in 10 feet off the deck vulch me, reverse and run back to his CV. I rolled and started following him only to watch him auger infront of me because he was too busy looking out his 6 probably zoomed in on me.
yes, top of the line sticks we have in the MA.
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Lately, I've noticed that people launch IL2 into busy sectors. Why?
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hit sprites.
The answer to and reason for everything.
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being able to see them under the nose you mean moot?
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Running is the #1 form of defense - you may never win, but hey, at least you'll never lose as long as you time your escape right.
Besides, the MA is full of planes that do over 350mph TAS at deck and the bases are placed on average 30miles away from each other. If people venture out at about 15miles and meet at the middle point, basically 1~2 minutes of running will get someone to homebase when they start to dive.
Even a La-7, the fastest non-perked plane, might not be enough to catch down its temporaries in time, if they turn around and dive full speed towards home. The most popular planes in the MA easily reach over 450mph at dives and then slow down and stabilize at speeds over 360~370mph typically. In about a minute or two it reaches home base, and more likely, within about 30 seconds it would be able to meet other friendlies to seek help.
So, when anybody can do this, why the hell should anyone expect any plane to actually fight? Its not cowardice, its not newbie stuff. It's basically the simplest, most rational choice of behavior - why risk a fight that might take minutes and has a considerable risk, when you can run for 30 seconds and reach home?
Not everyone is a serious flyer nor a combat buff. Expecting them to "honor" some imaginary code of "combat" and fight everytime you want a fight, is just plain stupid and selfish. Many MA gamers are casual/light gamers who don't necessarily share the same views on "fun", as you miserable, complaining "vets" gathered at this spot.
Besides, the terrains, the planeset, the basic system, etc etc.. everything is geared to make people act that way. Why, I don't recall any of the most vocal whiners here in this post ever supporting (for example) something like longer bases distances... perked latewar aircraft.. RPS.. or any other ideas that might have been able to stop people from acting this way.
Nope. Most of you here wanted furball friendly terrains, short bases distances (because flying a long time is boring), no perks for late-war vehicles (since it inhibits their own planes most of the times), and etc etc..
And after all that, contributing a very hefty, conservative public opinion that helped make AH MA stay as it always was - unchanging, stagnant, chaotic, unstructured - and now start to complain about people that don't fight anymore.
Basically, like it or not, you guys had it coming.
As long as the terrains, planes, and gameplay stay this way, people will always act this way. That's how the game is structured.
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Yeah, the game lost some appeal when they removed that.
Gamey as it was, there was nothing as great as meditating the con's trajectory while blind to it, or from an off angle/distance, and seeing those hit sprites appear out of the blue.
Kweassa, you're right, there's a category some 'miserable' vets fall into.
I'm a selfish, greedy bastard, and getting kills I haven't earned means nothing to me.
Sufficing myself to victories without peril is a snore.
The reason for fighting is to come out on top. You're not going to come out on top without fighting. Turning home is self-defeating, why up in the first place? There aren't any non-combat vehicles yet, except for the goons... Were a boxer to step out of and run away from the ring, by the logic of your post, he'd not have lost the bout.
Turning away from any fight is vain.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Without risks, you have no rewards. Those that think making it back to base is a reward are just fooling themselves into thinking they've accomplished something.
I'd rather risk it all and take out 5 with me as I go down then to wimper back home without even have given a mean face to someone.
I'd rather take out 5 and rtb with the kills. Im vain and like to see my name in lights. That is my reward, no fooling.
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Hey,
we cannot all be fearless aces with steel nerves and hawk eyes! You need targets! We RTBing Timid Dweebs (TM) are your targets, you dont have to worry about us, even if we have alt advantage, go figure. :D
Cowardice, thats great ... :lol
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Watching paint dry isn't cowardice, nor is sitting on your thumb.. that's likely to be taken for a #4 or #5 or whatever, but that's not my intent.
I have nothing against Kweassa, and I won't hold it against a 'teammate' in the MA if he runs away with his tail between his legs if it's just the two of us as a swarm of red appears ahead.
But that doesn't mean I agree it's the best choice, nor what I'd do in his place.
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Originally posted by Kermit de frog
Shane, the la7 for you is a crutch.
I'm not going to tell people how to fly. But I will say this. If you land kills in any spitfire, la7, niki or hurri, and still think you are some "great pilot" at this game, then you have problems.
Go ahead, get kills in those plane, do whatever you need to to compete with other pilots at different skill levels, just don't think for a second that you are a great pilot in AH.
Again with the my plane is better than your plane thing.
Curious to know what plane you have to fly to be a great pilot.
AM6? KI84? Tempest?
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Hurri Mk1 :D.
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Originally posted by Elyeh
Curious to know what plane you have to fly to be a great pilot.
AM6? KI84? Tempest?
Typhoon, of course. Its great top speed, insanely lethal guns, outstanding acceleration, and excellent instant turn require more skill than anything in the entire game.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by moot
Were a boxer to step out of and run away from the ring, by the logic of your post, he'd not have lost the bout.
Strange mentallity for sure.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Running is the #1 form of defense - you may never win, but hey, at least you'll never lose as long as you time your escape right.
Besides, the MA is full of planes that do over 350mph TAS at deck and the bases are placed on average 30miles away from each other. If people venture out at about 15miles and meet at the middle point, basically 1~2 minutes of running will get someone to homebase when they start to dive.
Even a La-7, the fastest non-perked plane, might not be enough to catch down its temporaries in time, if they turn around and dive full speed towards home. The most popular planes in the MA easily reach over 450mph at dives and then slow down and stabilize at speeds over 360~370mph typically. In about a minute or two it reaches home base, and more likely, within about 30 seconds it would be able to meet other friendlies to seek help.
So, when anybody can do this, why the hell should anyone expect any plane to actually fight? Its not cowardice, its not newbie stuff. It's basically the simplest, most rational choice of behavior - why risk a fight that might take minutes and has a considerable risk, when you can run for 30 seconds and reach home?
Not everyone is a serious flyer nor a combat buff. Expecting them to "honor" some imaginary code of "combat" and fight everytime you want a fight, is just plain stupid and selfish. Many MA gamers are casual/light gamers who don't necessarily share the same views on "fun", as you miserable, complaining "vets" gathered at this spot.
Besides, the terrains, the planeset, the basic system, etc etc.. everything is geared to make people act that way. Why, I don't recall any of the most vocal whiners here in this post ever supporting (for example) something like longer bases distances... perked latewar aircraft.. RPS.. or any other ideas that might have been able to stop people from acting this way.
Nope. Most of you here wanted furball friendly terrains, short bases distances (because flying a long time is boring), no perks for late-war vehicles (since it inhibits their own planes most of the times), and etc etc..
And after all that, contributing a very hefty, conservative public opinion that helped make AH MA stay as it always was - unchanging, stagnant, chaotic, unstructured - and now start to complain about people that don't fight anymore.
Basically, like it or not, you guys had it coming.
As long as the terrains, planes, and gameplay stay this way, people will always act this way. That's how the game is structured.
Man, if you are married I sure feel bad for your wife when she is not in the mood to have sex. Do you write her a book too?
Have Sex With Me Agenda?
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ooooo, burn!
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Originally posted by Kermit de frog
Shane, the la7 for you is a crutch.
I'm not going to tell people how to fly. But I will say this. If you land kills in any spitfire, la7, niki or hurri, and still think you are some "great pilot" at this game, then you have problems.
Go ahead, get kills in those plane, do whatever you need to to compete with other pilots at different skill levels, just don't think for a second that you are a great pilot in AH.
oooooooooooo ... O' "great pilot" of the Aces High skies ... please let us all in on the secret of becoming a "great pilot" ... what plane(s) must we fly to achieve such greatness.
I HATE tards that measure "greatness" by what plane one flys. Myopic people at best.
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true slap. it's not what one flys but rather how one flies what one flys.
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Yep, its not about the equipment.... its how you use it!
:D
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And exactly what, in your opinion, consitutes a great pilot? You make it sound as if kills in an LA or Spit, etc. are never valid or earned.
So tell us what are the criteria for greatness so we'll all have a clue.
Originally posted by Kermit de frog
Shane, the la7 for you is a crutch.
I'm not going to tell people how to fly. But I will say this. If you land kills in any spitfire, la7, niki or hurri, and still think you are some "great pilot" at this game, then you have problems.
Go ahead, get kills in those plane, do whatever you need to to compete with other pilots at different skill levels, just don't think for a second that you are a great pilot in AH.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Besides, the terrains, the planeset, the basic system, etc etc.. everything is geared to make people act that way. Why, I don't recall any of the most vocal whiners here in this post ever supporting (for example) something like longer bases distances... perked latewar aircraft.. RPS.. or any other ideas that might have been able to stop people from acting this way.
Spot on.
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You are too thick headed to understand my asian writting maniac, that perking planes will only make people act like bigger ******* in them.
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Kweassa's suggestions are only "spot on" if you take them in reverse, seeing as they would probably have the result of making people even more timid. Are you more likely to run if it'll take you 5 minutes to get back to the fight, or 20? This is confirmed in that this sort of timidity was less common in AW, where base distances were typically closer. The AH MA terrains typically have featured bases which are just a little too far apart to be ideal for "arena-style" combat. Kweassa's "advertising" of his idea reminds me of a Ron Popeil infomercial (I mean that as a compliment, as the latter gentleman is quite good at what he does). It's presented as the best thing since sliced bread, but in practice it'd just end up forgotten on the back shelf once the novelty wears off.
I suspect another large part of the timid behavior in AH stems from the "name in lights when you land" kill message setup, as someone else noted.
You will never have an arena with NO runners whatsoever, but it's possible to reduce them to a minimal amount. Sometimes running isn't such a bad thing; running away from a horde to deny them the skill-less kill just out of spite is very much in the "hate thy enemy" flight sim tradition.
J_A_B
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It's not the perks so much, IMHO. It's the short base distances.
With close bases, you can get to the fights faster, but you can also disengage with greater ease. I think that longer base distances would also reduce the effectiveness of the horde.
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Originally posted by Morpheus
had a guy tonight come screaming in 10 feet off the deck vulch me, reverse and run back to his CV. I rolled and started following him only to watch him auger infront of me because he was too busy looking out his 6 probably zoomed in on me.
yes, top of the line sticks we have in the MA.
Had a guy trying to B n Z my low Spit IX in a Tempest last night. I think I was frustrating him as I could turn tight enough at the right time to avoid it as he was going light speed.
I finally just took it as low as I could get, and here he comes again from way on high, I turned tight again and right into the turf he went. That had to have been discouraging :)
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On frac, the number one biggest piece of crap map that Aces High has ever seen... The bases are so far apart that you need to pack a lunch so you dont go hungry just on the way to the fight.
Also, even with its bases being very far apart, there are nothing but hordes of red or green, nothing inbetween.
We have a huge percentage of the MA being new.
We also have at times 650 to sometimes 700 players on now.
With all those players, and many of them being new, they are going to horde, and remain in the saftey of their green force field around them. That's just the way it is. Nothing against them. They are new, they have no idea what is going on half the time anyways. Just follow the leader that's all.
It doesnt matter if its small, or large, near or far, the hordes are now bigger than ever and here to stay. Hopefully when ToD comes out some of this hording will even out. I miss the nights, when prime time consisten of basicly 250 or 300 players who just wanted to fight. There was still base taking, but it happened on a completely different scale than it does now.
Back then it was, furball until everyone dies on one side and its pushed back to one field or the other, that field got vulched eventually, then captured. The furball then moved on and was between another two bases.
Now its up in a mass of 70 heavies with 6 goons, bomb the living hell out of anything that can be bombed and drop 60 troops over the town. yay.
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Originally posted by Morpheus
I miss the nights, when prime time consisten of basicly 250 or 300 players who just wanted to fight. There was still base taking, but it happened on a completely different scale than it does now.
Back then it was, furball until everyone dies on one side and its pushed back to one field or the other, that field got vulched eventually, then captured. The furball then moved on and was between another two bases.
Those were the "good old days".
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Originally posted by Morpheus
On frac, the number one biggest piece of crap map that Aces High has ever seen... The bases are so far apart that you need to pack a lunch so you dont go hungry just on the way to the fight.
Also, even with its bases being very far apart, there are nothing but hordes of red or green, nothing inbetween.
We have a huge percentage of the MA being new.
We also have at times 650 to sometimes 700 players on now.
With all those players, and many of them being new, they are going to horde, and remain in the saftey of their green force field around them. That's just the way it is. Nothing against them. They are new, they have no idea what is going on half the time anyways. Just follow the leader that's all.
It doesnt matter if its small, or large, near or far, the hordes are now bigger than ever and here to stay. Hopefully when ToD comes out some of this hording will even out. I miss the nights, when prime time consisten of basicly 250 or 300 players who just wanted to fight. There was still base taking, but it happened on a completely different scale than it does now.
Back then it was, furball until everyone dies on one side and its pushed back to one field or the other, that field got vulched eventually, then captured. The furball then moved on and was between another two bases.
Now its up in a mass of 70 heavies with 6 goons, bomb the living hell out of anything that can be bombed and drop 60 troops over the town. yay.
Sounds about right. So, you have a choice, adapt your style and tactics accordingly to re-find the 'fun' for yourself or piss and moan incessantly about 'the bygone good old days' when everyone fought you your way just because you wanted them to. I for one fight humans for their innate and infinite ability to adapt, adaptation is what seperates us from AI and the lower animals. One thing is as certain as death and taxes 'people' as a group will not change, a 'person', however, has limitless capacity for change, so the onus is on you, the individual, to change and adapt to the 'group'. To expect the 'group' to change to conform to your wishes is like expecting gravity to make objects fall UP, it defies the laws of the universe and will never happen no matter how much you or anyone else may wish it to.
Zazen
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Originally posted by Sandman
It's not the perks so much, IMHO. It's the short base distances.
With close bases, you can get to the fights faster, but you can also disengage with greater ease. I think that longer base distances would also reduce the effectiveness of the horde.
If someone is going to disengage/run, thats just what they are going to do, regardless of the proximity of a nearby base. Running to a closer base or a further base is just ... running ... period.
Longer distances between bases contributes/feeds the horde. Back in the "Pizza" days, once a small horde started, it grew quite fast due to the fact that the distance between the bases did not allow an "intradiction" group to get up and get to the base under "vulch" fast enough to possibly stop the capture, nor would this distance allow a reversal of capture before the horde moved onto the next target. As fields were captured, they horde grew bigger and mowed down everything in its path.
Maps like FesterMA, with fields closer together, allows an end-around on the horde and fields can be recaptured if the horde DOESN'T leave some protection behind ... which they rarely do. Hence, even tho they still move as a horde, they really don't contribute much to the overall resetting of a map ... their actions a nullified.
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Sounds about right. So, you have a choice, adapt your style and tactics accordingly to re-find the 'fun' for yourself or piss and moan incessantly about 'the bygone good old days' when everyone fought you your way just because you wanted them to. I for one fight humans for their innate and infinite ability to adapt, adaptation is what seperates us from AI and the lower animals. One thing is as certain as death and taxes 'people' as a group will not change, a 'person', however, has limitless capacity for change, so the onus is on you, the individual, to change and adapt to the 'group'. To expect the 'group' to change to conform to your wishes is like expecting gravity to make objects fall UP, it defies the laws of the universe and will never happen no matter how much you or anyone else may wish it to.
Zazen
So this is the old, if everyone else jumps off the bridge, I should jump too argument? :)
When with the horde, act like the horde?
It's not my responsibilty, I was only following orders?
Having visions of defendents at Nuremberg right now with their explations for why they had no accountabilty. They were just adapting to the crowd :)
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Sounds about right. So, you have a choice, adapt your style and tactics accordingly to re-find the 'fun' for yourself or piss and moan incessantly about 'the good old days' when everyone fought you your way just because you wanted them to. I for one fight humans for their innate and infinite ability to adapt, that is what seperates us from the lower animals. One thing is as certain as death and taxes 'people' as a group will not change, a 'person', however, has limitless capacity for change, so the onus is on you, the individual, to change and adapt to the 'group'. To expect the 'group' to change to conform to your wishes is like expecting gravity to make abjects fall UP, it defies the laws of the universe and will never happen no matter how much you or anyone else may wish it to.
Zazen
LOL Zazen I love how you talk high and mighty when even the newest of newbs can kick the holly hell out of you. You dont impress me, you never have, you never will. So keep the preaching for someone who gives a chit.
And for your information, no one ever faught the way "I" wanted them too. The just used to fight. That was my point genious.
What would "adapting" to the hordes be in your mind? To join the countless nimrods with their heavy 38's and 51's and bomb the hell out of any base in my way all the while staying within the saftey of my horde? Or wait, I know... Only engage an enemy when the enemy itself is engaged with several other friendlies.
You go from one thread to another preaching you're god awful bullchit. Whats even more hysterical is that you are preaching to those of us who know how much of a chump you are. You're only kidding yourself.
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Originally posted by DipStick
Those were the "good old days".
One thing I have noticed. Those that cling to the past and do not adapt are the ones complaining incessantly. Those that 'go with the flow' apapting their style, plane-choice and tactics to accomodate the dynamically changing MA environment are having a great time. A product of this nature is ever evolving, the nature of the engagements of the MA evolve with it over time, if you, the player, do not also evolve you are going to become frustrated as is evidenced in this thread. No matter how much you wish it so the 'old days' are but a foot-note of the past like AW is. No matter how much you may wish to return to that Utopic era it isn't going to happen. Adapt to the MA of today and re-find your 'fun', because no matter how much you complain, whine and piss n' moan the MA is NOT going to adapt to you, believe that.
Zazen
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Originally posted by Zazen13
One thing I have noticed. Those that cling to the past and do not adapt are the ones complaining incessantly. Those that 'go with the flow' apapting their style, plane-choice and tactics to accomodate the dynamically changing MA environment are having a great time. A product of this nature is ever evolving, the nature of the engagements of the MA evolve with it over time, if you, the player, do not also evolve you are going to become frustrated as is evidenced in this thread. No matter how much you wish it so the 'old days' are but a foot-note of the past like AW is. No matter how much you may wish to return to that Utopic era it isn't going to happen. Adapt to the MA of today and re-find your 'fun', no matter how much you complain, whine and piss n' moan the MA is NOT going to adapt to you, believe that.
Zazen
You really are retarded aren't you?
Who said anything about clinging to the past?
What he said was he missed the good old days. That's not to say he is refusing to change. Really there is nothing to change about the way he flys or I. There are just more targets around. The only thing tactical about MY Aces High is how im going to win a fight. The difference between now and then is like I said, more targets to deal with.
The ones who need to adapt are the players who only give a crap about taking bases and winning the war.
Stop taking what others say and pulling it out of context and into something that fits your needs to make some moronic point that everyone already knows to begin with.
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Originally posted by Morpheus
You really are retarded aren't you?
Yup, I'm definately an idiot, a dolt, a stupid person... ;) Pay no attention to me, I am a moron, I obviously have no idea what I am talking about. :rofl
Zazen
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Originally posted by Morpheus
Whats even more hysterical is that you are preaching to those of us who know how much of a chump you are. You're only kidding yourself.
Naw I'm not kidding myself, I have long ago come to terms with the fact I am a chump. ;)
Zazen
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Originally posted by Guppy35
So this is the old, if everyone else jumps off the bridge, I should jump too argument? :)
When with the horde, act like the horde?
It's not my responsibilty, I was only following orders?
Having visions of defendents at Nuremberg right now with their explations for why they had no accountabilty. They were just adapting to the crowd :)
Developing a strategy to defeat the tactics of an enemy rarely involves adopting the same tactics yourself. I'll use the TnB fighter as an example, someone is down low with some obvious skill in a turnfighter, you wish to engage him but are not in a turnfighter, the best way to defeat him is NOT to turn with him, the best way to defeat the tactics of a turnfighter is to do the opposite actually. In your case with the horde, one tactic I use with my wingman, just the two of us, to defeat a horde of 10+ is the drag and bag method. One of us will go into the horde with some E in a fast plane, make some half-assed passes to get their attention then pull a few out, the other comes around and shoots 'em off, then we just keep looping over and clearing 'em off one another until we run out of targets then we go get some more.
The point is adapting means not expecting the MA to automatically provide you with the type of engagement you want simply because you wish it so. You must get creative, change up the planes you fly and the way you fly them to manipulate the enemy into your type of engagement. My favorite whine in the MA is the Spit drivers complaining they can't find anyone willing to turnfight...duh... well unless the other guy is also in a Spit or an equally manueverable plane, of course you can't. If you are really the stick masters some of you so humbly *cough* think of yourselves as fly a plane that does not have an innate turnrate advantage over 95% of the planes in the MA, instead fly a middle of the road plane, I guarentee you will have more of the kind of fights you seek in short order. My Typhoon is a good example, there is not a plane in the set that won't take a stab at getting into a knife fight with a Typhoon, almost none except perhaps La7s run from me.
So, adaptation is a dual faceted process, you change yourself but also learn to manipulate your environment to meet you somewhere in the middle.
Zazen
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Typhoon, of course. Its great top speed, insanely lethal guns, outstanding acceleration, and excellent instant turn require more skill than anything in the entire game.
-- Todd/Leviathn
Great top speed of a typhoon is only "great" below 5k, otherwise, many other planes have a higher top speed. Only other non perked planes faster than a typhoon are the La7, 190D9.. And if you are out of wep, than the pony and 1 other plane are faster on the deck. Most planes get faster as they increase altitude so many planes are faster than the typhoon above 5k.
Acceleration on a typhoon is very poor. Unless you have altitude to dive away, you are not going to out run a spitfire assuming you both started out doing 200mph. The spitfire will close in to the typhoon because it has better acceleration.
Instant turn is great if you are on the guys six and want to go for the lead shot in a turn. But all the spitfire pilot has to do is not do a flat turn, and keep turning, in about 13 seconds the spitfire will be on the typhoon's six.
Insanely lethal guns, eh, they are powerful, but sometimes I still have to get 4 shots to kill a spitfire or at least hurt it. Besides, spits have the 20mm as well.
I repect those P38 pilots because it's a challenging plane to master. I repect those 190D9 fighters that actually fight without running away. D9 isn't exactly a turn fighter. Basically anyone who turnfights in a plane known to be a poor turnfighter. Those guys want a challenge and are getting one.
What I just said above was in defense to what was said by Leviathn.
You can be a great pilot in a spitfire, hurri, C205, La7 mossie, GREAT. Have fun. Fly anything you want. REread my earlier post. And for the spitfire pilots that were upset in this thread. I didn't mean to get you upset.
If I flew a spitfire vs spitfire against some of you here, I'd probably lose in the first turn. I'm just used to fighting without outturning my enemy.
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Originally posted by Kermit de frog
I'm just used to fighting without outturning my enemy.
I have some bad news Kermit. :confused: I have been told on these boards, much to my chagrin, that unless you DO turn with the enemy, you aren't actually fighting. So, you don't fight, I'm sorry to have to break this sad news to you. :O
Zazen
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Bottom line is the safety flyers are very boring to run into and fight. They are timid at best and can rarely match skill if they fall off their perch and get slow. Once they do all they have left in their bag of tricks is running.
Last night was a perfect example. I upped at a field where I saw two red cons and low and behold the two red cons were "Major Nelson" typhoons.
Unfortunately I forgot to change planes so I was in a Seafire, I decided, since I was up I would give some chase. So to make a long boring story short. The typhs made some week BnZ, long extension passes, I killed one and pinged up the other so he ran. Boy what fun.:rolleyes:
If your style is the safety dance, that is your choice, but don't believe for a second that there is much skill or greatness in flying safe.
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Ah, I didn't mean run away or extend 5k.
All I need is 1k extention if neccessary.
No more sad news Zazen.:D
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Originally posted by Kermit de frog
Most planes get faster as they increase altitude so many planes are faster than the typhoon above 5k.
[/b]
This is a complete non-issue. Even if you take the Typhoon above its optimal speed altitude, you can always dive down to it in a hurry. A Tiffie at 12k can dive away from just about anything.
Acceleration on a typhoon is very poor. Unless you have altitude to dive away, you are not going to out run a spitfire assuming you both started out doing 200mph. The spitfire will close in to the typhoon because it has better acceleration.
[/b]
Slow speed acceleration in the Typhoon is extraordinary. This allows a capable pilot to yank hard for an instant turn, then let go for a beat, allow it to accelerate again, then yank again. Thus if the Typhoon can force the Spit below 200mph, he can easily accelerate away. But then I expect you already knew this.
Instant turn is great if you are on the guys six and want to go for the lead shot in a turn. But all the spitfire pilot has to do is not do a flat turn, and keep turning, in about 13 seconds the spitfire will be on the typhoon's six.
[/b]
Not an issue.
Insanely lethal guns, eh, they are powerful, but sometimes I still have to get 4 shots to kill a spitfire or at least hurt it. Besides, spits have the 20mm as well.
[/b]
Better check that connection if you can't get easy kills with four 20mm cannons. Spits have 20mm Hispanos, but they have half as many. Thus the Tiffie should be twice as lethal as any Spit model and equal to the F4U-1C, the premier vulch machine.
You can argue about the Tiffie's weaknesses until you're blue in the face, but the only real weakness the Tiffie suffers is a poor roll rate that hampers it in scissoring fights. It is otherwise one of the finest fighters in the entire game if flown to its strengths. How do I know? Well, gee, I only flew the thing exclusively for over a year way back when. You'd think I learned a thing or two about it in that time.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by SlapShot
If someone is going to disengage/run, thats just what they are going to do, regardless of the proximity of a nearby base. Running to a closer base or a further base is just ... running ... period.
Longer distances between bases contributes/feeds the horde. Back in the "Pizza" days, once a small horde started, it grew quite fast due to the fact that the distance between the bases did not allow an "intradiction" group to get up and get to the base under "vulch" fast enough to possibly stop the capture, nor would this distance allow a reversal of capture before the horde moved onto the next target. As fields were captured, they horde grew bigger and mowed down everything in its path.
Maps like FesterMA, with fields closer together, allows an end-around on the horde and fields can be recaptured if the horde DOESN'T leave some protection behind ... which they rarely do. Hence, even tho they still move as a horde, they really don't contribute much to the overall resetting of a map ... their actions a nullified.
I disagree. Escaping to a friendly base is easier if it's closer, IMHO.
Also... during the pizza days, it seems to me that the horde whines weren't nearly as shrill as they are today. Something has changed.
Before AH, when we flew WB, it seems that the bases were much further apart. I'm not sure if they actually were or maybe it was just the lack of an onboard AWACS radar that made the distances seem longer.
-
Here is your earlier post ...
Originally posted by Kermit de frog
Shane, the la7 for you is a crutch.
I'm not going to tell people how to fly. But I will say this. If you land kills in any spitfire, la7, niki or hurri, and still think you are some "great pilot" at this game, then you have problems.
Go ahead, get kills in those plane, do whatever you need to to compete with other pilots at different skill levels, just don't think for a second that you are a great pilot in AH.
Here is your latest post ...
Originally posted by Kermit de frog
Great top speed of a typhoon is only "great" below 5k, otherwise, many other planes have a higher top speed. Only other non perked planes faster than a typhoon are the La7, 190D9.. And if you are out of wep, than the pony and 1 other plane are faster on the deck. Most planes get faster as they increase altitude so many planes are faster than the typhoon above 5k.
Acceleration on a typhoon is very poor. Unless you have altitude to dive away, you are not going to out run a spitfire assuming you both started out doing 200mph. The spitfire will close in to the typhoon because it has better acceleration.
Instant turn is great if you are on the guys six and want to go for the lead shot in a turn. But all the spitfire pilot has to do is not do a flat turn, and keep turning, in about 13 seconds the spitfire will be on the typhoon's six.
Insanely lethal guns, eh, they are powerful, but sometimes I still have to get 4 shots to kill a spitfire or at least hurt it. Besides, spits have the 20mm as well.
I repect those P38 pilots because it's a challenging plane to master. I repect those 190D9 fighters that actually fight without running away. D9 isn't exactly a turn fighter. Basically anyone who turnfights in a plane known to be a poor turnfighter. Those guys want a challenge and are getting one.
What I just said above was in defense to what was said by Leviathn.
You can be a great pilot in a spitfire, hurri, C205, La7 mossie, GREAT. Have fun. Fly anything you want. REread my earlier post. And for the spitfire pilots that were upset in this thread. I didn't mean to get you upset.
If I flew a spitfire vs spitfire against some of you here, I'd probably lose in the first turn. I'm just used to fighting without outturning my enemy.
Can you say ... BACK-PEDDLE !!!
I am relieved to know now, because I use to fly the P-38 quite a bit and got fairly proficient in it, that I can still fly my Spitfire (my favorite plane) and still feel MANLY !!!! and someday, maybe, be known as a "great pilot".
-
I disagree. Escaping to a friendly base is easier if it's closer, IMHO.
easier ? ... What the heck does that have to do with it ... they are running cause they can't or are afraid to fight ... period ... distance to the base makes no difference ... a grapefruit will always run without consideration as to base proximity.
Also... during the pizza days, it seems to me that the horde whines weren't nearly as shrill as they are today. Something has changed.
Maybe you had wax in your ears back then. The whines were as loud if not louder ... hence ... FesterMA, OZKansas.
Before AH, when we flew WB, it seems that the bases were much further apart. I'm not sure if they actually were or maybe it was just the lack of an onboard AWACS radar that made the distances seem longer.
Never flew WB.
-
Also... during the pizza days, it seems to me that the horde whines weren't nearly as shrill as they are today. Something has changed.
Yeah, actually something did change. The game.
The MA general population consists of mostly new playrs. Back when we had Pizza I can remember seeing a new player maybe once a week. Now I see one or two every night that I will log in. Im also seeing alot of old players leave. I can think of a dozen or so old players right off the top of my head who called it quits because of what direction the game was headed in. They didnt like it, so the left. So what you have is out with the old in with the new. Only now you dont have the old teaching the new. You have the new teaching the newer. And the new is teaching the newer to run when in trouble or even when he feels he is in trouble, run.
SO the key for them is to stick together, in big, massive hordes. And that's why the hordes are so bad today. And so much bigger than they were in AH1 when we had the pizza map.
-
Originally posted by mars01
If your style is the safety dance, that is your choice, but don't believe for a second that there is much skill or greatness in flying safe.
I don't play a game to be 'great' at anyone else's game just mine. I play to have 'fun'. Flying to survive is 'fun' to some including myself. Being a 'great' Spit jockey is a totally different game than being a great Typhoon driver which is different from being a great 38 driver etc. That is what makes this game so interesting, especially to people who fly multiple types of planes. There's about 90 million ways to skin a cat in air combat and each plane is good at some of those but not all of them. In this game there are great everything's:
Great Turnfighters
Great E-Fighters
Great Marksmen
Great Cherry pickers
Great Bouncers
Great Survivalists
Great Vulchers
Great Furballers
Great Ostwind Shootists
Great Tank Drivers
Great Gunship Drivers
Great Team Players
etc. etc. etc.
To be so presumptuous as to assert that one form of 'greatness' is somehow more pure and valid than another is frankly, disgusting elitist BS. In terms of people enjoying the game, which is why the other 98% of us pay and play, being great at something, anything, or maybe even several things is reason enough to keep paying HTC our $15 a month. We're terribly sorry if what we enjoy doing and are to varying degrees 'great' at is not what you think it should be, our apologies, be sure to get in line to smooch our hairy arses. ;)
Have A Nice Day!
:aok
Zazen
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Originally posted by Morpheus
Yeah, actually something did change. The game.
The MA general population consists of mostly new playrs. Back when we had Pizza I can remember seeing a new player maybe once a week. Now I see one or two every night that I will log in. Im also seeing alot of old players leave. I can think of a dozen or so old players right off the top of my head who called it quits because of what direction the game was headed in. They didnt like it, so the left. So what you have is out with the old in with the new. Only now you dont have the old teaching the new. You have the new teaching the newer. And the new is teaching the newer to run when in trouble or even when he feels he is in trouble, run.
SO the key for them is to stick together, in big, massive hordes. And that's why the hordes are so bad today. And so much bigger than they were in AH1 when we had the pizza map.
Care that people run from you?...fly a faster plane...It's not complicated...Nothing runs from me unless I permit it ;)
Zazen
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Originally posted by Zazen13
I have some bad news Kermit. :confused: I have been told on these boards, much to my chagrin, that unless you DO turn with the enemy, you aren't actually fighting. So, you don't fight, I'm sorry to have to break this sad news to you. :O
Zazen
Your absolutely right ... you are NOT fighting ... you are simply killing ... which is the bottom line.
A sniper that sits on top of a building picking guys off 1 by 1 from 300-400 yards that are involved in a gun battle in the streets below ... is he is involved in the "fight" ? ... nope ... he is simply killing.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Your absolutely right ... you are NOT fighting ... you are simply killing ... which is the bottom line.
A sniper that sits on top of a building picking guys off 1 by 1 from 300-400 yards that are involved in a gun battle in the streets below ... is he is involved in the "fight" ? ... nope ... he is simply killing.
I have a good friend who was a Sniper in Viet Nam, he is going to be sad when I tell him he was not actually 'fighting' for his country. :(
Zazen
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A family friend of ours was over in afghanistan who is a sniper and used the 50cal. He would agree and basicly said the same thing slapshot just said.
Of course he is fighting for his country you dumb sob. But he is not fighting hand to hand (aka dog fighting).
God you are just as dumb as they get.
"Watching at a man eating his breakfast from 1000 yards out just before he is blown in half is alot different than looking a man right in his eyes as he's shooting back at you. " Those were his exact words.
-
Originally posted by Morpheus
God you are just as dumb as they get.
Yup, I'm dumb as a doorknob! ;)
Zazen
-
Originally posted by Morpheus
But he is not fighting hand to hand (aka dog fighting).
So, only turnfighters can dogfight, E fighters who use energy management, speed and marksmanship cannot by definition dogfight according to you?
There's going to be alot of P51, F4U, F6F, P47 and Fw190 pilots that are going to be very sad they lied in their after action reports during WW2 saying they were in a dogfight with Spits, Zekes, Ki's, 109s when they actually weren't according to your narrow definition. :(
Zazen
-
Originally posted by Zazen13
I have a good friend who was a Sniper in Viet Nam, he is going to be sad when I tell him he was not actually 'fighting' for his country. :(
Zazen
Oh ... you made me feel bad ... NOT ... at times you can be very intelligent and at times you can be very stupid. In this instance ... you were very stupid.
I too have many friends that were in Nam and they would understand the context in which I posted ... and not have a problem with it. Twist it any way you like.
-
Originally posted by SlapShot
you can be very stupid. In this instance ... you were very stupid.
Yup, you guys have me pegged, I'm very, very stupid! ;)
Zazen
-
Originally posted by Zazen13
So, only turnfighters can dogfight, E fighters who use energy management, speed and marksmanship cannot by definition dogfight according to you?
There's going to be alot of P51, F4U, F6F, P47 and Fw190 pilots that are going to be very sad they lied in their after action reports during WW2 saying they were in a dogfight with Spits, Zekes, Ki's, 109s when they actually weren't according to you. :(
Zazen
Twist some more ... Yes those men FOUGHT ... FOR ****IN' REAL ... we are discussing gameplay in a virtual online game that has no consequence of death ... stop with the stupidity.
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Yup, you guys have me pegged, I'm very, very stupid! ;)
Zazen
No ... not very, very ... but calculated stupid. ;)
-
Don't confuse fear of Dying, with the fear of Living.
No one wants to die. However, there are very few people out there who aren't afraid of living.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Twist some more ... Yes those men FOUGHT ... FOR ****IN' REAL ... we are discussing gameplay in a virtual online game that has no consequence of death ... stop with the stupidity.
Whether there is an actual, tangible consequence for dying or not should not alter the the definition of accepted fighter combat dogma. Either E-Fighters are able to, by definition, furball turnfighters in the classic sense employing E fighter tactics or they are not, in real life or in the game. Wether the real pilot dies actually and the simulating pilot only dies theoretically should not change the facts. In another thread I quoted the US Navy's definition of a furball, the US military and RAF sure as hell didn't consider it only a furball if their E-Fighters turnfought the enemies' turnfighters. I guess we had better get the US Dept. of Defense on the phone to inform them that according to the mighty Slapshot, Morpheous and Mars, they are incorrect and need to ammend their fighter combat manuals accordingly. ;)
I can just see the WW2 pilots interviewed after a fight, "Well son did you actually turn with the zeke?"
"Well no sir, I used my speed and firepower to bleed his E vertically then killed him as he stalled out."
"I'm sorry to hear that my boy, no kill for you, you didn't actually 'fight' him, had you turned your F4 with the zeke it would have been a real fight and you would have got credit for the kill"
"Sir, that makes me very sad, I killed him using my planes attributes to negate his advantages as I was tought"
"That may be but, you are the 15th F4 pilot I've taken AAR's from and none of you turned with any of those 30 Zekes, that was no furball at all! Cowards!"
Give me a break! :rofl
Zazen
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zazen.... it's pretty simple really... they are telling you that you are as boring to fight as you are to read.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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BIG FRIGGIN YAWN
:lol lazs ya beat me to it by 1 minute! It will cost you 2 stolen kills next time we're on! ;)
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Originally posted by lazs2
zazen.... it's pretty simple really... they are telling you that you are as boring to fight as you are to read.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
I'm truly sorry to hear that, it just breaks my wittle bitty heart! It does! Seriosuly! Believe me! Please believe me! No, I'm not kidding! Honest! ;)
Zazen
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Whether there is an actual, tangible consequence for dying or not should not alter the the definition of accepted fighter combat dogma. Either E-Fighters are able to, by definition, furball turnfighters in the classic sense employing E fighter tactics or they are not, in real life or in the game. Wether the real pilot dies actually and the simulating pilot only dies theoretically should not change the facts. In another thread I quoted the US Navy's definition of a furball, the US military and RAF sure as hell didn't consider it only a furball if their E-Fighters turnfought the enemies' turnfighters. I guess we had better get the US Dept. of Defense on the phone to inform them that according to the mighty Slapshot, Morpheous and Mars, they are incorrect and need to ammend their fighter combat manuals accordingly. ;)
I can just see the WW2 pilots interviewed after a fight, "Well son did you actually turn with the zeke?"
"Well no sir, I used my speed and firepower to bleed his E vertically then killed him as he stalled out."
"I'm sorry to hear that my boy, no kill for you, you didn't actually 'fight' him, had you turned your F4 with the zeke it would have been a real fight and you would have got credit for the kill"
"Sir, that makes me very sad, I killed him using my planes attributes to negate his advantages as I was tought"
"That may be but, you are the 15th F4 pilot I've taken AAR's from and none of you turned with any of those 30 Zekes, that was no furball at all! Cowards!"
Give me a break! :rofl
Zazen
ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZ ZZzZZZZZzzZZZZZZZzzzzz
oh ... ummm ... sorry ... did you say something ... yup ... just what I thought.
ZzZzZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzZZZzzZzZzZ ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Originally posted by SlapShot
ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZzZZZZZzzZZZZZZZzzzzz
oh ... ummm ... sorry ... did you say something ... yup ... just what I thought.
ZzZzZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzZZZzzZzZzZ ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Your most intelligent, articulate and well thought out reply yet! Congratulations! ;)
Zazen
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Originally posted by Karnak
Score mongers coupled with poor pilots who will never get better because all they can do is run and look for AFK planes on climbout.
My guess anyways.
Heh, I should be an outstanding pilot then cuz I been shot down more ways than anyone in here.
I been killed by cherry pickin, HOing, stupidity (on my part), skilled foe, stupidity but lucky (on my foe's part), gang-banged, friendly fire, ack, wife ack, rocket, tree, hillside, blackout, red out, wing rip, pilot wounded, typing, chute-shot, and some dumb sumbit## testing his Hispanos on the rw at same time I'm trying to take off.
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Your most intelligent and well thought out reply yet! Congratulations! ;)
Zazen
ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzZZzzzZZ ZZzZ
what ... oh .... you again !!!
ZzzzZZzZZzzZZZZZzzzzzzzzZZZZz zzzzzzz
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Originally posted by SlapShot
I disagree. Escaping to a friendly base is easier if it's closer, IMHO.
easier ? ... What the heck does that have to do with it ... they are running cause they can't or are afraid to fight ... period ... distance to the base makes no difference ... a grapefruit will always run without consideration as to base proximity.
[/B]
This is a game. There is no fear. There is no cowardice. No bravery. No heroes. Within the confines of the arena, there are no ethics. This is just a game.
There is simply tactics. Not everyone shares your objective. Likewise, they won't share your tactics.
Don't expect for a moment that you can prove your manhood in the arena.
It's a video game. Nothing more.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzZZzzzZZZZzZ
what ... oh .... you again !!!
ZzzzZZzZZzzZZZZZzzzzzzzzZZZZz zzzzzzz
You remind me of a little kid who doesn't want to hear his mother tell him to go clean his room so puts his hands over his ears shouting Lalalalalalalalalalalala hoping she'll stop telling him something he doesn't want to hear. ;)
Zazen
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Originally posted by Sandman
This is a game. There is no fear. There is no cowardice. No bravery. No heroes. Within the confines of the arena, there are no ethics. This is just a game.
There is simply tactics. Not everyone shares your objective. Likewise, they won't share your tactics.
Don't expect for a moment that you can prove your manhood in the arena.
It's a video game. Nothing more.
BINGO! Give this man a prize! He UNDERSTANDS what so many others fail to. :aok
Zazen
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Originally posted by Sandman
This is a game. There is no fear. There is no cowardice. No bravery. No heroes. Within the confines of the arena, there are no ethics. This is just a game.
There is simply tactics. Not everyone shares your objective. Likewise, they won't share your tactics.
Don't expect for a moment that you can prove your manhood in the arena.
It's a video game. Nothing more.
There is no fear ? ... I beg to differ. If there was NO FEAR, then why the heck not turn around and engage .... instead of escaping to the nearest field or pack of friendlies ? ... cause they fear dieing a virtual death ... they fear the possibility of someone calling them a "newb" on CH 200 ... etc.
If this is JUST a game, then they need to treat it as such ... grow a cheekbones and mix it up ... nothing lost ... nothing gained if you win or lose. It's really not that hard of a concept.
What's up with the bravery, heros, eithcs ? ... no one is discussing that ... we are talking about RUNNERS !!! Next think ya know, you'll start talkin' politics and world affairs.
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Originally posted by Zazen13
You remind me of a little kid who doesn't want to hear his mother tell him to go clean his room so puts his hands over his ears shouting Lalalalalalalalalalalala hoping she'll stop telling him something he doesn't want to hear. ;)
Zazen
LOL ... you remind me of an arrogant little kid that THINKS that he is smarter than everybody ... and he is ... in his own wittle world ... but in the real world ... he is nothing but a bore.
Now leave me alone. Go play in the playground and let me get back to my nap.
ZzZZZzzzzzzzZZZZZzzzzZZZZ
P.S.
and its ... La7la7la7la7la7la7la7la7la7la 7la7la7 whenI don't want to hear what Mom has to say ... :p
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Originally posted by Zazen13
BINGO! Give this man a prize! He UNDERSTANDS what so many others fail to. :aok
Zazen
I don't know about that.
Amongst the players who've been around a while there is trust, commaraderie, sacrifice, and so on. Granted it's not of blood and sinew, but there is a reason friendships formed in AW, WB, and AH have grown beyond the game and lasted so long.
And there are those in the MA who have ethics. The problem may be that those who hold themselves to some kind of code are in the very small minority now.
The game is what you make it.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
If this is JUST a game, then they need to treat it as such ... grow a cheekbones and mix it up ... nothing lost ... nothing gained if you win or lose. It's really not that hard of a concept.
Yes I've had an epiphany, I agree with Slapshot now , I am going to start flying nothing but a Zeke, so everyone turn fight with me and don't try to dis-engage (run) or E Fight me, ever, please! I'm begging! Fight my way or i'll cry ad nauseum on the BBS and on 200 until the end of time until the day everyone starts playing the way I want them to because I am too stubborn to adapt! ;) Grow a cheekbones everyone! Please!
Zazen
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Originally posted by SlapShot
There is no fear ? ... I beg to differ. If there was NO FEAR, then why the heck not turn around and engage .... instead of escaping to the nearest field or pack of friendlies ? ... cause they fear dieing a virtual death ... they fear the possibility of someone calling them a "newb" on CH 200 ... etc.
Different objectives call for differnt tactics.
If this is JUST a game, then they need to treat it as such ... grow a cheekbones and mix it up ... nothing lost ... nothing gained if you win or lose. It's really not that hard of a concept.
I have a cheekbones and it works fine thankyouverymuch. This is little more than another, "Fly my way" whine.
What's up with the bravery, heros, eithcs ? ... no one is discussing that ... we are talking about RUNNERS !!! Next think ya know, you'll start talkin' politics and world affairs.
Hmmm... grow a cheekbones... don't run... turn and fight. You imply that to do otherwise is cowardice. Cowardice being the opposite of bravery. Do they still teach English in school?
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Yes I've had an epiphany, I agree with Slapshot now , I am going to start flying nothing but a Zeke, so everyone turn fight with me and don't try to dis-engage (run), ever, please! I'm begging! Fight my way or i'll cry ad nauseum on the BBS and on 200 until the end of time until everyone starts playing the way I want them to because I am too stubborn to adapt! ;) Grow a cheekbones everyone! Please!
Zazen
LOL ... your OCD would not allow it. If you ever got into the TnB thing, you would start "ticking" all over the place ... you wouldn't be able to fly at all.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
LOL ... your OCD would not allow it. If you ever got into the TnB thing, you would start "ticking" all over the place ... you wouldn't be able to fly at all.
Nah, the Lithium I'm on prevents that, I'll be ok, thanks for caring though! :O
Zazen
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
I don't know about that.
Amongst the players who've been around a while there is trust, commaraderie, sacrifice, and so on. Granted it's not of blood and sinew, but there is a reason friendships formed in AW, WB, and AH have grown beyond the game and lasted so long.
Can't argue this. I've been flying with the same guys forever. Some of us started flying online when it was just 1v1 and games like Aces High were unimagineable.
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I have a cheekbones and it works fine thankyouverymuch. This is little more than another, "Fly my way" whine.
Nope ... its simply a ... "turnaroundandfightyabiggrapef ruit" whine
Hmmm... grow a cheekbones... don't run... turn and fight. You imply that to do otherwise is cowardice. Cowardice being the opposite of bravery.
Again with the cowardice and bravery stuff ... listen carefully ... THERE IS NO SUCH THING IN ACES HIGH. That stuff is reserved for real life scenarios not virtual worlds.
Your either one who "fights" or one who "runs" ... your scared or your not. Simple.
Do they still teach English in school?
Wow ... classic quote ... I'll have to remember this one to use in another post at the appropriate time so I can be as cutting and witty as you. Can I use it with your permission ?
-
Slapshot do you like to cash geos? I mean do you and the boys at IBM pass the time with some good old fashion Geo Cashing? Hell honkey, I think I might pass out from the freakin intesity that this activity would bring.
I dont see how Mr Dot Doubly Dot can handle that chit. Amazing. My hero to say the least.
Btw, dont you have some political analyzing to do in the Oclub Mr Dot Doubly Dot? I am humbbled by you're presence. You "big dogs" (roflmfao) in the oclub as you put it, are just too cool for me. I mean how could someone compete with a middle aged Geo Casher like you?
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Nah, the Lithium I'm on prevents that, I'll be ok, thanks for caring though! :O
Zazen
I try ;)
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Again with the cowardice and bravery stuff ... listen carefully ... THERE IS NO SUCH THING IN ACES HIGH. That stuff is reserved for real life scenarios not virtual worlds.
Your either one who "fights" or one who "runs" ... your scared or your not. Simple.
Let me see if I understand. There is no cowardice and there is no bravery (hmmm sounds vaquely familiar somehow), but there is fear.
Okey dokey. Have it your way.
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Originally posted by Morpheus
Slapshot do you like to cash geos? I mean do you and the boys at IBM pass the time with some good old fashion Geo Cashing? Hell honkey, I think I might pass out from the freakin intesity that this activity would bring.
I dont see how Mr Dot Doubly Dot can handle that chit. Amazing. My hero to say the least.
Btw, dont you have some political analyzing to do in the Oclub Mr Dot Doubly Dot? I am humbbled by you're presence. You "big dogs" (roflmfao) in the oclub as you put it, are just too cool for me. I mean how could someone compete with a middle aged Geo Casher like you?
(http://seafoodhaccp.cornell.edu/Images/bobber.gif)
Keep fishing, little man.
-
This is a game. There is no fear. There is no cowardice. No bravery. No heroes. Within the confines of the arena, there are no ethics. This is just a game.
There is simply tactics. Not everyone shares your objective. Likewise, they won't share your tactics.
Don't expect for a moment that you can prove your manhood in the arena.
It's a video game. Nothing more.
Making yourself believe this is just a way of accepting how big of a coward you are.
-
You'd like to think that, but it doesn't diminish what a snot nosed punk you are.
Grow up. Boy.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
I don't know about that.
Amongst the players who've been around a while there is trust, commaraderie, sacrifice, and so on. Granted it's not of blood and sinew, but there is a reason friendships formed in AW, WB, and AH have grown beyond the game and lasted so long.
And there are those in the MA who have ethics. The problem may be that those who hold themselves to some kind of code are in the very small minority now.
The game is what you make it.
You just said a mouthful.
I spent 10 days in July traveling to England for Legends, and then staying in France, exploring Normany with people I 'met' through Airwarrior. I'd never seen them face to face until then, yet they'd become friends via that goofy game and this one. You'd have thought I'd known them forever. It was that positive of an experience.
And when two of my kids were killed in a car wreck at the end of August, the crowd from Airwarrior and those who migrated here came out of the woodwork to offer help and support. It was amazing how the community I'd become a part of through Airwarrior and then AH could do that. I don't know if I'd have made it through those first few weeks without that net to fall into outside of my immediate family.
I think that's what we keep hoping to find here in some way shape or form. A shared interest in WW2 history and aircraft that gets beyond that via the friendships formed via the game.
I don't know why it's harder to find in AH, but clearly there are those who keep trying to make it happen. It may be just me, but in the end the "community" should go beyond the game.
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Originally posted by Sandman
Let me see if I understand. There is no cowardice and there is no bravery (hmmm sounds vaquely familiar somehow), but there is fear.
Okey dokey. Have it your way.
Thanks !!!
extra pickels ... cut in half please.
Cowardice and Bravery are acts ... while fear is emotion. Fear can be realized in AH, but I would very much like to see someone commit acts of bravery and/or cowardice in AH.
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Ah... I see your point.
There's only one emotion I've ever felt while flying in AH. I'm not sure if it's fear. More like panic. Hands tremble. Heart pounds. Pulse throbbing in my ears. Tops of my ears turn red and heat up.
Unfortunately, I've never felt this in the MA.
This only happens during a scenario where losing an aircraft was more than just losing an aircraft. It meant game over.
It's absolutely the best feeling one can get in a game. I truly hope I can get it in ToD.
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Originally posted by Sandman
Ah... I see your point.
There's only one emotion I've ever felt while flying in AH. I'm not sure if it's fear. More like panic. Hands tremble. Heart pounds. Pulse throbbing in my ears. Tops of my ears turn red and heat up.
Unfortunately, I've never felt this in the MA.
This only happened during a scenario where losing an aircraft was more than just losing an aircraft. It meant game over.
It's absolutely the best feeling one can get in a game. I truly hope I can get it in ToD.
Most definately. Probably more likely to happen in a Scenario where you are in a role. You look out and the planes with you are the same type and the same group on the same mission. If you are escorting buffs, they're out there in the distance adding to the feeling. Bad guys slash through, flak goes off, planes are burning, your head is on the swivel and for those moments, the computer becomes your cockpit and it sucks you in so that within the limits of your imagination you are in the cockpit.
Been there done that a few times. Always looking for it to happen again. It is what you play the game for, hoping to retrieve that feeling.
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I may be a snot nosed punk, but at least I'm not a coward. Nor have I made concessions that I am a coward.
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Originally posted by Sandman
You'd like to think that, but it doesn't diminish what a snot nosed punk you are.
Grow up. Boy.
LOL listen to yourself old man! You hold yourself to the highest regard while spewing the same watermelon you detest.
Fat old men acting like children are no more grown up than children acting like children.
Think about it genious, you're arguing about a game. How grown up can you be? How grown up can anyone here be? LOL Please.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
I may be a snot nosed punk, but at least I'm not a coward. Nor have I made concessions that I am a coward.
Don't fool yourself. You may very well be a coward, but you'll never find out in a video game.
This just in... it's not real.
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See Rule #4
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Hmm, tell me. What have you added? You dont even fly.
Atleast I havent seen you for years.
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Yet he has a gazillion more posts than you morph, if that's even possible.
2,999 and one month to go... get after it.
:noid
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See Rule #6
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See Rule #4
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There's only one emotion I've ever felt while flying in AH. I'm not sure if it's fear. More like panic. Hands tremble. Heart pounds. Pulse throbbing in my ears. Tops of my ears turn red and heat up.
OH !!! ... its fear !!! ... no bout adoubt it !!!
I get this everytime I am in a good fight ... doesn't matter where ... I have no prerequsites for where this feeling has to take place.
Win or lose ... the adrenaline rush is what keeps bringing me back ... altho I would have to admit that the rushes are getting far an few between these days.
That is why I push ... FIGHT ... its the next best thing to sex.
You do know that "running" makes your pee-pee smaller ? ... ;)
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He flies Morph and he's a killer.......... BEWARE! He might just take you to the DA.
sandmn :lol
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Originally posted by Sandman
Ah... I see your point.
There's only one emotion I've ever felt while flying in AH. I'm not sure if it's fear. More like panic. Hands tremble. Heart pounds. Pulse throbbing in my ears. Tops of my ears turn red and heat up.
Unfortunately, I've never felt this in the MA.
This only happens during a scenario where losing an aircraft was more than just losing an aircraft. It meant game over.
It's absolutely the best feeling one can get in a game. I truly hope I can get it in ToD.
Well if you fly scenarios as 'good' as you fly in the MA I guess those feelings are very short lived. ;)
PS... Zazen you don't have the cheekbones to fly a Zeke for a week much less a whole tour. :p
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See Rule #6
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See Rule #6
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #5
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
I may be a snot nosed punk, but at least I'm not a coward. Nor have I made concessions that I am a coward.
So you're not a "game coward"?, that and .99 will get you a Fish sandwich at McD's.
Studies do suggest some gamers do try to live vicariously via gaming, geeks and losers in daily life can log on to their favorite game and transform into their uber mean on-line persona of "Babykiller#1" or "D3athSnIP3r"... who of course can do all the things on-line s/he cant accomplish in reality... like talk all kinds of trash without getting pummeled into dust, make grandiose claims of bravery and skill.
Military games especially because even the most non warrior limpdick panochia can claim to be a "vet skilled pilot" who speaks of what they "fly" as if it were real... the sad part is; it's more real to them than they want to admit and when loggin off means going back to being a fat no GF lewser whose testes have yet to drop... life sucks, so they wrap themselves in their on-line badass personality
Meanwhile you'll notice real military/law enforcement guys who have been in the she-it rarely brag about the skill & bravery of their actions, they were just doing their duty, their job... they also know bravery and stupidity walk hand in hand down the valley of death.
Surviving so all your brothers can go home drink a beer or F some random Susie Rottoncrotch is all that matters... it's up to others to say what happened was "brave"... you'll never ever get that experience from a game, nor can you ever appreciate what real warriors had to go through to earn the "bravery" & "skill" tags some gamers assign themselves... it cheapens the meanings to a pathetic level.
One guy is brave for dodging bullets, the other says hes brave by, uh...twisting a joystick?.. are you Fing serious? twisting a joystick in a fake atmosphere for 2 years makes one a "vet pilot"??.. what about the guy who flew 30 missions over Iraq?.. what do you think goes through his mind when he sees some gamer geek post about being a "vet pilot"?
Reality check: AH2 is FAKE, fake vets, fake pilots, fake kills, fake acms, its all make believe... and so are any lofty titles you choose to assign yourselves.
I would just love to see one of the bigger mouths attempt a few of those high G turns you all take for granted, unless you know wtf you're doing AND are in exceptional physical condition, you'd be too fatigued to fly home... if you hadn't already passed out & crashed.
Then again how can the Gumby pilot get tired when HE CAN EVEN MOVE IS OWN FEET!!!
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Originally posted by SlapShot
You do know that "running" makes your pee-pee smaller ? ... ;)
You see, there's a reason we call it "extending" and not "running". ;)
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Originally posted by Sandman
You see, there's a reason we call it "extending" and not "running". ;)
:rofl ... brilliant !!!
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See Rule #5
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See Rule #5
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Critical mass achieved somewhere a few pages back.
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Originally posted by moot
Critical mass achieved somewhere a few pages back.
Any hit sprites in this thread?
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Originally posted by SlapShot
That is why I push ... FIGHT ... its the next best thing to sex.
You must be doing IT wrong, sex that is, sex is WAAAAYYYYY better. :eek:
Slappy, please tell me you're not one of those guys whose wife comes into the room and says, "Take me now or lose me forever you big stud!" and you reply, "Not now dear I'm stallfighting in my dweebfire, it's more fun!" :O
Zazen
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No. Many online games have no real person to person contact. You never even speak to the person on the other hand.
But when you fly with a squad for almost 2 years, you realize AH is different. When squad mates call you on the phone to ask how things are going.
You have people like Rod367 (might be a different name) who goes out of his way to help others, and then when he needs help, the whole community rallies to help him.
People like Blammo who's son went missing for a little while. I could be wrong, but I do believe that some people in that area helped look for his Son.
I forget the names, but the family that took in the displaced family from Louisiana after katrina.
And the thing that pains me the most is that I had to cancel my subscription because of money and time issues. I won't miss AH, I'll miss flying with the NDM every Tuesday and Saturday night. (Though i will be flying again in the future.)
This proves that Aces High is way above and beyond what most online communities could only dream to be.
Now tell me that things like Bravery, Cowardice, and Skill don't exist in the eyes of this community.
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I don't think I'd go so far as to call it proof, but hey... your perceptions are exactly that, yours. You're free to reject my reality and substitute your own.
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
This is a complete non-issue. Even if you take the Typhoon above its optimal speed altitude, you can always dive down to it in a hurry. A Tiffie at 12k can dive away from just about anything.
[/b]
Slow speed acceleration in the Typhoon is extraordinary. This allows a capable pilot to yank hard for an instant turn, then let go for a beat, allow it to accelerate again, then yank again. Thus if the Typhoon can force the Spit below 200mph, he can easily accelerate away. But then I expect you already knew this.
[/b]
Not an issue.
[/b]
Better check that connection if you can't get easy kills with four 20mm cannons. Spits have 20mm Hispanos, but they have half as many. Thus the Tiffie should be twice as lethal as any Spit model and equal to the F4U-1C, the premier vulch machine.
You can argue about the Tiffie's weaknesses until you're blue in the face, but the only real weakness the Tiffie suffers is a poor roll rate that hampers it in scissoring fights. It is otherwise one of the finest fighters in the entire game if flown to its strengths. How do I know? Well, gee, I only flew the thing exclusively for over a year way back when. You'd think I learned a thing or two about it in that time.
-- Todd/Leviathn [/B]
I remember you saying that you flew the typhoon for a year or so.
Remember, the typhoon has changed ever since AH2 came out. Little changes mean a lot.
The typhoon can't out dive some planes. Lots of planes can at least keep up with it in a dive.
If you get a spitfire below 200 and you a yourself are going below 200, you are not going to out accel the spit. The yank and release for a beat doesn't work when going vert.
Ideally 2 or 4 pairs 20mm, there is a difference yes. Twice as lethal, no maybe 1.5 times as lethal. But definately more lethal. Take into account the other ammo you carry.
I have films where 20mm's light up the entire plane nose to tail on multiple passes, yes the bullets are spread out so less damage. Point is, it still takes multiple passes. Assuming you were arguing that last point.
Oh slapshot, please point out my "back peddeling". I don't see it yet. Thanks.
Thanks for responding back levi.
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Originally posted by Kermit de frog
Point is, it still takes multiple passes. Assuming you were arguing that last point.
Not if you can aim Fwoggy.
;)
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I have films where 20mm's light up the entire plane nose to tail on multiple passes, yes the bullets are spread out so less damage.
that has to be alot of porn you are downloading.
tiffy hasnt changed that much. Its still as easy as ever. no harder to fly than any La7 or P38.
Btw, I do have news for you on the P38. It is one of the easiest planes to fly.
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Yeah Stang, on some people's keyboards.
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Originally posted by Zazen13
You must be doing IT wrong, sex that is, sex is WAAAAYYYYY better. :eek:
Slappy, please tell me you're not one of those guys whose wife comes into the room and says, "Take me now or lose me forever you big stud!" and you reply, "Not now dear I'm stallfighting in my dweebfire, it's more fun!" :O
Zazen
I said the next best thing ... How much next I didn't think I needed to quantify.
"Take me now or lose me forever you big stud!" ... at that point, I would auger like a lawn dart ... I'm afraid that you would say ... "Wait dear ... I got to land this sortie otherwise I will be "ticking" all over the place and it will ruin my K/D" ... and the mood is lost.
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Oh slapshot, please point out my "back peddeling". I don't see it yet. Thanks.
Keep looking ... you will see it ... your welcome.
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Originally posted by Furious
Why not engage?
... But the ultra timid flyer running when the cards are stacked in his favour, that I don't get.
Is he running, or is he on autopilot while he's away taking the trash out?
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Originally posted by x0847Marine
snip....
Then again how can the Gumby pilot get tired when HE CAN EVEN MOVE IS OWN FEET!!!
I havent read teh whole thread, but this comment alone makes you an instant ignore target.
Like someones intrinsic value drops when they need a wheelchair? Think (if that be possible) of the president who led America through the depressiona and WW2 -- would you dis his tenacity and courage? You think you could show more cajones than he did?
Is that why you're an "x-marine" in North Hollywood instead of a leader remembered by history? Because you can move your feet?
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AH is a game, yes. But anyone who thinks it's "just a game" hasn't been paying attention. This community has been around since 1987. It has its lore, its patriarchs, its fallen, its lineage, its lingo, and its sense of value.
-DoK
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This community has been around since 1987.
That's one of the things which sticks out in my mind. Some of the younger kids weren't even born yet when it got started.
J_A_B
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Oh slapshot, please point out my "back peddeling". I don't see it yet. Thanks.
Keep looking ... you will see it ... your welcome.
Slapshot, if ya want to discuss something, you are gonna need to speak up and say something. Please point it out sir. If ya want me to re read something that's not there to waste time, go somewhere else.
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OK ...
Here you say ...
I'm not going to tell people how to fly. But I will say this. If you land kills in any spitfire, la7, niki or hurri, and still think you are some "great pilot" at this game, then you have problems.
Go ahead, get kills in those plane, do whatever you need to to compete with other pilots at different skill levels, just don't think for a second that you are a great pilot in AH.
but after being verbally spanked ... you go on to say ...
You can be a great pilot in a spitfire, hurri, C205, La7 mossie, GREAT. Have fun. Fly anything you want. REread my earlier post. And for the spitfire pilots that were upset in this thread. I didn't mean to get you upset.
If I flew a spitfire vs spitfire against some of you here, I'd probably lose in the first turn. I'm just used to fighting without outturning my enemy.
So in one post, anybody that flys spit, la, hurri ... has no clue and could never achieve the "great pilot" status ... and then you backpeddle and say that they can.
You then go on to admit that you have absolutely no clue as to how to fly a Spit and that some of us could beat you in one turn. So, bottom line, you really have no clue as to what it takes to survive in a Spit, that can just about outturn every plane out there, but cannot (except the XIV and the XVI) run away from anything. Once engaged in a Spit ... you have to fight till your dead or they are all dead ... no chance for escape. Try that for awhile ... I bet you wouldn't last a week.
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Once you get into a slow fight on the deck with a spitfire and have dumped all your E and are now slower than the spit, there is no where to go be finish the fight til death in the typhoon.
If there is a pony or la7 or d9, once slow, you can't get away unless you dive when the other guy is behind you and going in the opposite direction. That will give you a head start and allow another merge to happen.
If I'm flying a spit and don't have to fight another spit, I'll most likely win the fight only because I will have the better turning plane. This only applies if the other guy is in a turning fight.
As for the example of me backpeddeling, I did say that you can be a " great pilot in a spit, hurri..." meaning the plane will allow you to fight better. I did not say a great pilot in general. Which is why I said to reread my earlier post. Fly those planes to help you. I hope that clarified it for ya.
Remember, if the 189D9 pilot turns with a spitfire, he has to beat the spitfire pilot for he will not beat the spitfire plane in the turns.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Because the reward in the game has become the "attaboys" for landing a bunch of ........... kills,
This is the reason..............
There is no shame in the game................
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yes!! bring back the "xxx shot down" message!!
:aok
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1) Nominate a range based cross country channel
put "shame" messages on this channel (keeping down total arena traffic)
Goober crashed
Goober bailed
Goober shot down
Goober captured
2) Tie system kill tally reports to Perks earned.
eg a threshold of 2 kills and 2 perks (or 3 or 4 to be decided) before the announcement is made
This will encourage wannabe aces to fly planes that have higher ENY values or at least pick fights with ac of similar ENY.
3) Reward 30% plus damage assists with minor perks and only give full kills when 65% plus damage is down to one player.
Gang bangers collect assists where as duelers tend to collect kills......shorter daisy chains
4) when qualifying under 2 above ........ list kills and assists in the report.
"Goober" (Spit IX) awarded 3 kills and 2 assists.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
AH is a game, yes. But anyone who thinks it's "just a game" hasn't been paying attention. This community has been around since 1987. It has its lore, its patriarchs, its fallen, its lineage, its lingo, and its sense of value.
-DoK
Maybe it's just nostalgia, but I think the community has seen better days.
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Assists should be broadcast along with kills. Been saying that for a while. Promotes teamwork.
Shame messages won't do much but promote more running.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Assists should be broadcast along with kills. Been saying that for a while. Promotes teamwork.
oh i see. you want to give the lesser hordemonkey gangbangers their day in the sun.
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Originally posted by Shane
oh i see. you want to give the lesser hordemonkey gangbangers their day in the sun.
Believe it or not, some players actually help each other set up kills. This usually results in a higher assist-to-kill ratio.
But I see your point - it could possibly promote more slobberdonkeys.
But if there was a more draconian threshhold for kills and assists, then maybe.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Assists should be broadcast along with kills. Been saying that for a while. Promotes teamwork.
Shame messages won't do much but promote more running.
I liked what AW had, I forget the actual name, it was the combat log or something, you could access it from the ready rooms. But it had every combat occurence in the arena for the past hour or two. It was exactly like what we have for historical scenarios AAR analysis.
So and So shot down player X assisted by player Y and Z etc.
Was very interesting to dissect an engagement sometimes and did not clog up the text buffer.
Zazen
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Assists should be broadcast along with kills. Been saying that for a while. Promotes teamwork.
Absolutely. In addition, I'd like to see shared points for designated wingmen.
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Originally posted by Tilt
1) Nominate a range based cross country channel
put "shame" messages on this channel (keeping down total arena traffic)
Goober crashed
Goober bailed
Goober shot down
Goober captured
2) Tie system kill tally reports to Perks earned.
eg a threshold of 2 kills and 2 perks (or 3 or 4 to be decided) before the announcement is made
This will encourage wannabe aces to fly planes that have higher ENY values or at least pick fights with ac of similar ENY.
3) Reward 30% plus damage assists with minor perks and only give full kills when 65% plus damage is down to one player.
Gang bangers collect assists where as duelers tend to collect kills......shorter daisy chains
4) when qualifying under 2 above ........ list kills and assists in the report.
"Goober" (Spit IX) awarded 3 kills and 2 assists.
I think that a kill buffer message that only comes out when you have earned so many perks may be beneficial.
But kill messages are neither here nor there. I like to see my name in lights of course, but I don't fly to see my name in the system messages. Some of my finest sorties I have only landed one kill, or I've been killed. Most of my high kill sorties have been mindless vulching or cherry picking sprees, and the kills don't mean a thing. Except of course that we took a base, which is of course also meaningless :)
You know that many of the pilots whose names you see XXXX landed 5 kills in a Spit we just vulches. And you also know when a pilot lands a bunch of kills and he has fought well like "Fester landed 8 kills in a Spit 1." or something like that. We know who the good pilots are :)
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Perks aren't really that true a measure of anything given the rate of vultching and number of low-alt bombers around.
I know we've had prior discussions about the fact that the only visible reward is the WTG's after landing a multiple kills. I think assists should be broadcast. But I do see the point of maybe it encouraging more dog piles. Maybe we need a kind of "third man in" rule like the NHL (you know, like, Hockey ... remember that sport?) has. Maybe only the first two planes who tag an enema stand a chance of getting the kill and assist. Everyone else is just being a good samaritan.
Heheh ... boy you watch yourself get stranded in a hurry with a rule like that, huh?
-DoK
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Why not just take the kills landed message out of the game completely. You'd still see who you shot down or who shot you down, but there would not be any sort of arena wide 'attaboy'.
No point then in avoiding the fight if you aren't worried about getting your 'attaboy' fix by landing those 15 vulches. Might just decide to fight it out then or attempt to learn to get better at ACM if the reward has to be found within yourself.
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"No point then in avoiding the fight if you aren't worried about getting your 'attaboy' fix by landing those 15 vulches."
What is the point? They surely would vulch you that 15 times even without the landed kills -message and after that kind of vulch fest it is kinda pointless to engage with little fuel and even less ammo?
I think it is fine as it is now.
I rarely get to land my kills anyway as the 190 is not that fast and I come to my senses always a bit too late...
Then again, flying certain planes I'd rather ditch that let others see what I have been flying. ;)
-C+
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I'm not so sure that the "attaboy" landing message changed the way people play very much. Before that, the game would broadcast each individual kill number (something like "Kill #12 by Leviathn"). While that didn't encourage flying to live necessarily, it certainly didn't dissuade horde-like behavior or vulching. Of course, you could always tell who was vulching by the frequency of the kill announcement. Such a system in today's crowded arena would be completely unworkable, nor would many find it desirable.
Maybe a route more like ship guns is in order? If you die with more than two kills, it also announces your kill total to the arena. Something like "Leviathn died with 4 kills in a Spitfire Mk. V of +++ The Blue Knights +++" would work. That would still give "attaboys" to those who kill a lot, and while it would not necessarily stop hording or vulching, it could encourage some players to fly more aggressively.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Experienced players have graduated from caring about perks and kill messages. But the newer players ... that's all they have, and that's what molds their style of play.
...
And giving the kill total messages upon death would likely promote more aggressive vultching and porkrunning. Assume the worst in people and save yourself the disappointment.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Experienced players have graduated from caring about perks and kill messages. But the newer players ... that's all they have, and that's what molds their style of play.
[/b]
I agree, but I also think that the arena has hit a critical mass as far as numbers go. Back when I first started flying AH in very late beta, far fewer people played the game. That meant a tighter-knit community, and it also meant that reputations were easier to earn (or be stuck with). We knew who the vulchers were, who the timid cherrypickers were, and who the furballers were; the labels came easily, and you couldn't hide what you did from anyone. Respect was the commodity, not perks or "attaboys."
Now the effort required to make a name for oneself has increased dramatically with the ten or twenty-fold increase in arena numbers. Since players invariably attempt to find the easiest way toward a goal, and since the arena now renders most players anonymous and unable to carve out a reputation, things like hording, vulching, and the like become the easiest ways to gain recognition. With so many people in the arena, it also becomes the only really feasible way to measure players against one another when you have so many different names. Plus the ease of gaining perks and vulch/horde kills means that perks and "attaboys" have become the new commodity. This drives behavior accordingly.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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some of you fellows really need to find real life. it's a cartoon game, you.
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Who said it wasn't, stork?
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Yeah ... I think we're basically in agreement.
The thing I think we need to realize is that vultching and gangbanging have always been, and will always be, part of the game. The rewards system won't stop either. What we can strive for, though, is to have the reward system do a better job of promoting other styles of gameplay.
ToD may fix this. I dunno. I haven't looked close enough at it yet. The MA is still where people "make their bones."
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The only way vulching would ever go away is if people stopped upping from vulched fields, or if they gave the airfields an ack package representative of a late war german airfield - (lethal enough that you would stand a real high chance of getting shot down on your first pass or two).
And gangbanging and hording will never go away. One change I could think of that might mitigate it would be if there was an icon limit which restricited the number of icons that were displayed - so if there were say over 10 aircraft in close proximity it would only show you the nearest 10 icons or something to that effect. This would simulate the confusion of being in the middle of a swirling ball of fighters - and if you get the typical 15+ vs. 4 base attack, many of the would be gangbangers are now going to be struggling to spot their targets amongst their fellow horde members. Meanwhile the outnumbered few will still be able to clearly spot the closest threats - and it now becomes very profitable for guys from the outnumbered side to up from a nearby field and start picking off members of the "SA reduced" horde.
This would give the outnumbered a leg up (and a historical one - there were many cases were one or two fighters could score big against large disorganized formations, because the latter were spending so much time avoiding running into each other that they were bounced easily), and cause many of the gangbangers to go elsewhere - they would quickly get bored of looking at a sky full of friendlies and get bounced by guys who were sneaking up on them easily.
One thing that might make a neat addition to this would be some sort of "formation" command that would allow groups to formate on one pilot. The effect would be to remove the fellow members from the "icon limit" - the kicker would be to have this "formation" function turn off if the pilot strayed more then say 600-800 yards from the formation lead. In this way you could get an organized group of aircraft over a target without blowing all your SA - but as soon as the formation broke up for a big furball you would be back to the basic icon limit (thus keeping people from just creating one big country formation or something and "gaming" the system).
I'm sure that would require way too much coding, but it would be neat to see people actually flying in formation, and avoiding the current vulching horde technique.
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Not showing planes wouldn't work. But not showing the neon except on the dozen nearest planes could prove interesting. The vultchers could still see planes rolling down the runway, but the process of reducing the field to that state would become more complex if you had such overwhelming odds.
Has there been any studies on how many targets the typical fighter pilot could track without electronic assistance?
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
I agree, but I also think that the arena has hit a critical mass as far as numbers go. Back when I first started flying AH in very late beta, far fewer people played the game. That meant a tighter-knit community, and it also meant that reputations were easier to earn (or be stuck with). We knew who the vulchers were, who the timid cherrypickers were, and who the furballers were; the labels came easily, and you couldn't hide what you did from anyone. Respect was the commodity, not perks or "attaboys."
Now the effort required to make a name for oneself has increased dramatically with the ten or twenty-fold increase in arena numbers. Since players invariably attempt to find the easiest way toward a goal, and since the arena now renders most players anonymous and unable to carve out a reputation, things like hording, vulching, and the like become the easiest ways to gain recognition. With so many people in the arena, it also becomes the only really feasible way to measure players against one another when you have so many different names. Plus the ease of gaining perks and vulch/horde kills means that perks and "attaboys" have become the new commodity. This drives behavior accordingly.
-- Todd/Leviathn [/B]
Nice observations. I think people are motivated by simply having fun moreso than becoming popular, questing for reputation or recognition in a video game. I don't know many people that would be willing to devote their precious discretionary free-time playing AH in a way that was not fun for them simply to impress or earn some highly subjective measure of respect from others over the internet. That is not to say some do not enjoy some form of recognition, but I think that recognition is just something that comes incidentally from being naturally good at whatever it is the individual personally finds fun. Earning recognition is not a prime source of motivation in and of itself. If people did things to attain a reputation or recognition that they did not find fun I am doubting they would be motivated enough to be good enough at it to garner the attention they seek. I definately don't think removing a merely incidental recognition reward or adding another form of incidental recognition reward would motivate people to fly in a way that they do not personally enjoy or derive pleasure from.
Zazen
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Not showing planes wouldn't work. But not showing the neon except on the dozen nearest planes could prove interesting. The vultchers could still see planes rolling down the runway, but the process of reducing the field to that state would become more complex if you had such overwhelming odds.
That's exactly what I was thinking - keep the plane there, just turn it's icon off.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
What we can strive for, though, is to have the reward system do a better job of promoting other styles of gameplay.
I've always thought a "reverse perk" system would be cool.
Something like everybody starts flyin only 1945 or the 'perked' planes we have now, then when your score (k/d, k/h, etc... / 4) get high enough you only can fly 1943 planes, get better only 1942 planes, etc... That way the noobs or unskilled would be flying the fast rides and the better players would fly the old planes "like a badge of honor".
It would create alot more variety of planes used and seen in the arena and add some 'fun' to the game again. Plus it might help to even things out between the lesser skilled and the uber pileits.
Food for thought anyway.
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Originally posted by DipStick
I've always thought a "reverse perk" system would be cool.
Something like everybody starts flyin only 1945 or the 'perked' planes we have now, then when your score (k/d, k/h, etc... / 4) get high enough you only can fly 1943 planes, get better only 1942 planes, etc... That way the noobs or unskilled would be flying the fast rides and the better players would fly the old planes "like a badge of honor".
It would create alot more variety of planes used and seen in the arena and add some 'fun' to the game again. Plus it might help to even things out between the lesser skilled and the uber pileits.
Food for thought anyway.
That would be an interesting experiment.
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I personally don't mind flying older stuff ... but remember the torrent of grape juice that hit the fan with ENY went into effect and folks couldn't fly the P51D and La7. I'm afraid a lot of players either don't want or can't handle the challenge of learning other planes. And folks would just comit sewercide to get their rankings down if it meant being able to fly "their planes" again.
Maybe have a sliding scale on the boast messages. Like you need to land at least 5 kills in a La7 or Spit 16 to get a boast message broadcast, 4 kills in a P51D or D9, and so on. I have a lot more regard for the person who lands 2 kills in a Yak9 or P51B than the one who lands 7 in a Tiffy.
I think there's some combination of changes that could have a positive effect. I really like the idea of only showing neon for the 12 closest planes. One of those lost art skills is being able to read what's going on in a cloud of dots without having all that heads up info.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
One of those lost art skills is being able to read what's going on in a cloud of dots without having all that heads up info.
I've been playing around with this lately ... found that you can bounce a heck of a lot of people if you stay out of icon range until you get into the sun and make your approach from there.
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Id much rather have a hair on fire white knuckled 3 minute dogfight,win or lose than a plebian 12 run vulchfest.
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If you are seeing boast messages you must care about them. They get turned off when I log in. They just take up text space.