Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: storch on November 30, 2005, 06:41:47 AM
-
go and fly it against a spitV or even a spitVIII. the CT would be a good venue this week, until Friday when the set up changes. please post your impressions/results here.
-
I noticed a huge improvement.
Still checking it out, though.
All the best,
Crumpp
-
Originally posted by Crumpp
I noticed a huge improvement.
A5 has been improved?
-
Wot?
Well off I go, checking :D
-
Originally posted by MANDO
A5 has been improved?
I think HT modified it's 0beca1p setting!
-
Neg, it's not the A5 that's changed. It's the SpitV. A5 outperforms the V a bit better now. Other than that, it's the same 190 we've had since the last major patch (when the 190s were redone I mean)
-
Storch,
I have not since v2.06 has been released. What changes do you notice? I'll give it a go tonight though.
Originally posted by Sable
I think HT modified it's 0beca1p setting!
It's what?
-
Originally posted by Krusty
Neg, it's not the A5 that's changed. It's the SpitV. A5 outperforms the V a bit better now. Other than that, it's the same 190 we've had since the last major patch (when the 190s were redone I mean)
I'm not so sure, it's more about a change in the balance/CG and the way the plane stalls or more importantly how it doesn't. I'm able to pull it much further in high AoAs and not viciously drop the right wing. but it coulde be as you say as well.
-
It's been that way since the 190 models were redone (and yet the official word is "no FM changes were made".
-
Originally posted by Krusty
It's been that way since the 190 models were redone (and yet the official word is "no FM changes were made".
I'll take your word on it Krusty but I play the model almost every day and I first noticed it monday. I kept my opinion to myself and flew it exclusively yesterday. It is playing very pleasently and balanced. It wasn't prior to monday at least not to the extent we are currently experiencing, for me anyways.
-
Ah, well I fly it often myself as well, but had not noticed any new changes. I thought what you were describing was the change we felt when the 190 3D models were redone.
-
If you notice a change in how the 190's fly and can't figure out the reason you might want to look at the way the fuel is loaded and used now versus the older versions of AH...
-
A5 felt really good to me too when I flew it. But then again I never really flew the A5 much, only the A8. The A5 still isn't as amazing around the stall as the uber 51s and 47s though
-
A8 still sucks arse. Can't even pull a loop well. I was struggling very hard against a spit16 and an la7 in the a8, in a situation where an A5 would have killed 'em both easily and kept on going.
-
A5 seems same to me.
-
LMFAO, you guys kill me. The A-5 is unchanged.
-
LMFAO, you guys kill me. The A-5 is unchanged.
I was born at night, but it was not last night.
BS. It has changed in the CT. I don't know about the main.
All the best,
Crumpp
-
I had the impression that the FM is the same in the CT as the main.
Just the fuel burn is different.
-
I had the impression that the FM is the same in the CT as the main.
From what I understand there is a setting that they can adjust the stall characteristics for all aircraft. It raises the AoA the plane can pull IIRC. That is what it feels like has happenend to the FW-190's in the CT.
It very much feels like the same FM when AH2 first came out with the instability that occurred over the last two patches gone.
All the best,
Crumpp
-
If there is any difference the difference is for all planes in the CT.
Difference in the stall limiter. That is the way AoA can be changed, if you use stall limiter.
No FM changes have been made to any 190's since 2.00 and certainly not in the last patch.
-
ok then if you guys say so but I don't use the stall limiter or combat trim. I'm able to stay in flat turns with all the spits currently in the CT setup for about 2-1/2 turns with ease. maybe it's just me though.
-
Difference in the stall limiter.
Right. I don't fly with stall limiter either. Someone needs to check the stall speeds out.
All the best,
Crumpp
-
OMG! Look!! A Black Helicopter!!
:noid
Originally posted by Wilbus
If there is any difference the difference is for all planes in the CT.
Difference in the stall limiter. That is the way AoA can be changed, if you use stall limiter.
No FM changes have been made to any 190's since 2.00 and certainly not in the last patch.
You are 100% correct Wilbus.
-
The stall limiter is a heckable option. Who uses it? dunno, never would.
So HTC? Is the FM not the same?
-
Originally posted by Crumpp
From what I understand there is a setting that they can adjust the stall characteristics for all aircraft. It raises the AoA the plane can pull IIRC. That is what it feels like has happenend to the FW-190's in the CT.
This setting change only the configuration of the stall limiter if I'm not mistaken.
-
Exactly Straffo.
Stall limiter or no stall limiter. If there are changes the changes are server made and setup by the CT criew. Not by HTC.
The FM is entirely client based afaik.
-
ok then, what ever didn't occur I hope it continues to occur ad infinitum.
-
Originally posted by storch
ok then, what ever didn't occur I hope it continues to occur ad infinitum.
Well I tried it but not sure I felt any difference.
But if you happen to be right I agree with your above statement.
-
The A5 always was light on the controls ever since AH2 came out.
If they changed something(really doubt it,in fact I don't believe something has changed) might be on how the other aircraft perform in relation to the A5.
Though I agree with Nathtard it can't still compare to uber Flap dropping P-47s and P-51s.
-
Originally posted by Glasses
If they changed something(really doubt it,in fact I don't believe something has changed) might be on how the other aircraft perform in relation to the A5.
DING DING DING!! We have a winnar!
-
But Grits and Glasses I thought that had been said already?
Krusty said eraly on Neg, it's not the A5 that's changed. It's the SpitV. A5 outperforms the V a bit better now. Other than that, it's the same 190 we've had since the last major patch (when the 190s were redone I mean)
Basicly the same thing but people didn't quite buy it ;)
-
since the last major patch (when the 190s were redone I mean)
[/b]
I didnt buy it because I dont think it changed even in the last patch other than 3D model. They have not changed and they sure as hell are not changing daily as some say.
-
I didnt buy it because I dont think it changed even in the last patch other than 3D model. They have not changed and they sure as hell are not changing daily as some say.
Grits it is possible in the CT to change the stall characteristics of all the aircraft. It's been done before during scenarios.
Now I asked if it had been done this time. The CT volunteers said no. However there was a definate stability to the FW-190 which did not exist before. As the CT developed problems, I did not get to check 1G level stall speeds in the CT. The test in the main showed that there were not changes in that arena to the FM.
All the best,
Crumpp
-
Originally posted by Crumpp
Grits it is possible in the CT to change the stall characteristics of all the aircraft. It's been done before during scenarios.
Not to be irritating, but this is the first I've heard of this. Would be interested to hear how to do it.
- oldman
-
Originally posted by Wilbus
Krusty said eraly on
Basicly the same thing but people didn't quite buy it ;)
Nobody wuvs me :(
-
Originally posted by Krusty
Nobody wuvs me :(
I wuv you ;)
-
You only wuv me for my LW skinning abilities!
-
Not to be irritating, but this is the first I've heard of this. Would be interested to hear how to do it.
It can be done AFAIK. Talk to TK. Just like damage can be adjusted as well.
All the best,
Crumpp
-
Originally posted by Crumpp
Grits it is possible in the CT to change the stall characteristics of all the aircraft. It's been done before during scenarios.
Now I asked if it had been done this time. The CT volunteers said no. However there was a definate stability to the FW-190 which did not exist before. As the CT developed problems, I did not get to check 1G level stall speeds in the CT. The test in the main showed that there were not changes in that arena to the FM.
All the best,
Crumpp
Man, I can't believe this debate is still going on! There is only one thing that can be changed between arenas and that is Stall Limiter AOT. One more reason to never fly with Stall Limiter on.
HiTech addresses this conspiracy theory months ago. If 2 arenas have different fuel burn rates then planes will, say it with me, perform differently in either arena based on fuel weight and distribution, i.e. COG.
There is no way to change the Flight Model of any plane in the arena settings. To continue to believe so is, well, delusional.
-
Posted by Hitech in this thread. (bad spelling and all)
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=151542&perpage=50&highlight=arena%20flight%20model%20change&pagenumber=2
05-27-2005 12:33 PM
StallLimitAOA, only has an effect when your have the stall limiter enabled. It is simply the degres before stall AOA that the stick is relaxed.
So if storch is flying with the stall limiter enabled it could change it's ablity to stall, but would not effect any type of plane differently.
If you do not have stall imiter enabled, there is no setting that can change anything about how the planes fly, let alone a setting that would effect 1 plane type.
HiTech
Again
05-27-2005 02:05 PM
Then the plane will fly exatly like it would in the main arena.
On thing you might consider is if the CT is using a different Fuel burn rate. You would always be ariving at the fight heavyier than you would for an = time in the main. But I assure you there is no change in the flight model between arenas other than what I have spoken about.l
HiTech
You can believe what you wish but you are only deluding yourself.
-
Originally posted by Crumpp
It can be done AFAIK. Talk to TK. Just like damage can be adjusted as well.
All the best,
Crumpp
conspiracy theories again ?
-
Originally posted by Crumpp
Grits it is possible in the CT to change the stall characteristics of all the aircraft. It's been done before during scenarios.
If you do not have stall imiter enabled, there is no setting that can change anything about how the planes fly, let alone a setting that would effect 1 plane type.
HiTech[/b][/i]
-
Grits,
It is a mute point now as the arena is not even up to test again or check settings.
One possible explaination is all that I offered not conclusive evidence.
HiTech addresses this conspiracy theory months ago.
Please feel free to point out where any "conspiracy" is mentioned?? What a silly thing to imply.
Clifra Jones, your post's delivery is one of the most childish and idiotic I have seen in ages.:confused:
If you have any experience whatsoever with MMOL games, settings can and do change on occassion when servers are swapped, programs loaded, etc...
HTC just went through a rather busy episode with the servers IIRC? They were down for several hours due to difficulties.
Of course we can also use the "we are all just crazy" that fly the FW190 explaination too.
:eek:
Pass the Fruit and Nuts.....
All the best,
Crumpp
-
Originally posted by Crumpp
Grits,
It is a mute point now as the arena is not even up to test again or check settings.
It is a moot point because the man who wrote the coad says there is no setting that can cause what some have felt. He also says that he did not remodel or change the 190's, P-38's, P-47's, 109's or any other flight model of a plane that existed before any patches which did feature new 3D models and new aircraft types unless it was noted in the release notes.
Some of my squadmates said they thought the K-4 was slower than the old G-10, or that the roll rate was not what it was. I tested it and found them identical in every way, every testable flight characteristic on any plane that someone has said they "feel" there was a change, I found there was none. No, stability is not measurable, it is inheirently a subjective quality, but given what I have found on testable traits of aircraft behavior that have been claimed to have changed and have not, why should I believe it has? When the massive preponderance of testable evidence I have seen clearly proves nothing has changed why should I believe something has changed just because it cant be tested? Thats just illogical.
I believe you and others that say they can feel changes, I think you are wrong, but I do believe you, however, just because someone believes something does not make it true. Although I may state my view strongly sometimes, it is not personal towards you or anyone else.
-
He also says that he did not remodel or change the 190's, P-38's, P-47's, 109's or any other flight model of a plane that existed before any patches which did feature new 3D models and new aircraft types unless it was noted in the release notes.
If you go dig that thread out, Grits, you will see I confirm that when it came up on the FW190 graphic update. No FM changes were made at that time from when AH2 was first released.
This has been a recent development in the last two patches. First the FW-190 FM became extremely erratic, then on the Italy map, it became very stable.
I don't know what it is or the cause. The behavior of the aircraft in the game is not the same as it was when AH2 was first released and it is not mine or the others who fly the FW190's imagination.
I believe HTC when they say that no FM changes have been made. I also know from developing other flight sims that other changes in the program can have a profound effect on the behavior of FM's ending with unintended results.
All the best,
Crumpp
-
190A-5 is delightful to fly but i must admit... it doesnt feel right. 190A-5 is suppose to be a dog in r/l compare to 190A-4, A-6, and A-8. From now on when i fly 190A-5 i must imagine that im flying an Fw-190A-3... lol
-
Originally posted by Crumpp
I don't know what it is or the cause. The behavior of the aircraft in the game is not the same as it was when AH2 was first released and it is not mine or the others who fly the FW190's imagination.
Just to satisfy myself, I have an archived copy of beta 1.97 or somewhere thereabouts before AH2 went live. I will confirm what version it is, fly around some, do some tests, and see what I can find.
-
I flew the A5 last night, and I think it's exactly the same plane I quit flying a while back. It's good, but thoroughly outclassed by all the other allied planes.
Uberplane of the era, it is not. Lucky you might be. Lucky I was not.
Perhaps, as I've hoped, the overall aptitude has dropped. Lawd haf mercy.
-
Well I have an old install file for AH1 as well... I think it is 1043 or something. If you'd been flying 190s right when AH2 came out you'd not question whether things were different. They are. AH2 changed them a lot. There was no change with the new graphics for 190s, but there WAS for 109s. Specifically roll rate. If you have a second machine install 2.0 patch 2 or 3 or something and note the 109E roll rate. Then try AH1 roll rate. Then try 2.06 roll rate. The roll rate jumped noticably when 2.0 came out, and dropped again the instant 2.06 came out. This for 109E and K4, not so much the others.
EDIT:
I'd like to clarify something. I'm not a "LW Conspiracy nut". I don't think the LW planes are being intentionally hindered blah blah blah. Good or bad, whatever, for whatever intentions, there *have* been certain key changes. The increased turn capabilities of the Fw190 was a change that came about with 2.0. That's all I've advocated in this issue. Not that HTC is out to get us.. whooo...
Whether HTC intended it, there have been certain changes. None recently to the 190s, but there have been them.
-
Originally posted by Krusty
Well I have an old install file for AH1 as well... I think it is 1043 or something. If you'd been flying 190s right when AH2 came out you'd not question whether things were different. They are. AH2 changed them a lot.
[/b]
I WAS flying 109's and 190's when we switched to AH2, ask Crumpp and Storch, since I always fly on the side with the least numbers in the CT, I flew LW 80% of the time back then as the Axis were usually heavily outnumbered. I never said AH2 did not change the planes, you are putting words in my mouth, what I have said is that since AH2 no patches have made changes to any flight models that were not noted in the ReadMe for that patch.
There was no change with the new graphics for 190s, but there WAS for 109s. Specifically roll rate. If you have a second machine install 2.0 patch 2 or 3 or something and note the 109E roll rate. Then try AH1 roll rate. Then try 2.06 roll rate. The roll rate jumped noticably when 2.0 came out, and dropped again the instant 2.06 came out. This for 109E and K4, not so much the others.
[/b]
I just tested the 109E, 109F, 109G-10/K-4, F4U-1 and Tiffie in these versions of AH:
AH1.14, 2.0, 2.02, 2.03, 2.04 and 2.06.
Krusty is correct, there was on average nearly a full second reduction in time to roll 360 deg for the 109's that the F4U and Tiffie did not get with the change from AH1 to AH2 (something I have never disputed). In every 2.0x version I tested however, EVERY version of EVERY plane is IDENTICAL in roll rate. I repeat, there is no difference (past the margin of error for a human's thumb working a stopwatch) in any version of 109 in any patch of AH2 up to the current version. You can claim they are different all you want, but I just tested five patch levels of the game and they are all the same.
I'd like to clarify something. I'm not a "LW Conspiracy nut". I don't think the LW planes are being intentionally hindered blah blah blah. Good or bad, whatever, for whatever intentions, there *have* been certain key changes. The increased turn capabilities of the Fw190 was a change that came about with 2.0. That's all I've advocated in this issue. Not that HTC is out to get us.. whooo...
Whether HTC intended it, there have been certain changes. None recently to the 190s, but there have been them.
As I have said, I dont want this to sound like I am calling you guys liars, I am not. I truely believe you feel something is different. I think you are flat wrong, I think it is your imagination, I know my testing bears that out to my satisfaction, but I dont think you are just making it up.
Who knows, maybe down the road HT will find something wrong and say "hey, this has been porked off and on" but I seriously doubt it.
-
I shall then let the matter rest indefinitely. Sorry if I seemed combatitive earlier, Grits.
-
I dont mind a good debate Krusty, you were not combative at all. The intardnet is hard to get things to come across in type the way you meant them too. In my case when I am really only trying to make myself and my point clear, I come across as a little more harsh than I really intended.
Just out of curiosity you should do what I do and try to save old versions to do testing between them, I enjoy doing it. Keeps trying things, maybe you will stumble onto something, you never know.
-
I was flying 109's and 190's when AH2 came out.
NO planes had remodelled flight modells but what changed was the entire way AH modells the FM.
HTC added more points to be calculated (if I remember correct) which changed several characteristics of most planes, most noticably close to stall.
The 109 E did infact roll much faster (finally, it could hardly roll over on its back before). The 190's just felt overall better.
This has been a recent development in the last two patches. First the FW-190 FM became extremely erratic, then on the Italy map, it became very stable.
Crumpp, the FM exists in your version of the game on your hard drive, it does not exist in an arena nor on any particulair map, it can not be changed by arena settings.
The only way to change the FM is if HTC does so and releases a new version or... if you somehow successfully hack the game. The only thing that can be changed is the AoA for the stall limiter when it comes to flight modell.
Other then that there are ofcourse lots of things that can be changed for each arena but not FM wise.
I flew the 190 A5 last night, wanting to get back into my old ride, I also flew it in the CT. There is no difference.
-
boy have I improved overnight then. I was K/D 12:0 while I was flying alone in a Dora. I suffered a few deaths last night doing base defense and coming to aid of squaddie who squawked for help claiming to be at 2k when he was in fact at 12k (sure is hard to read the LW guages now). I don't care about my score at all I mention this because generally all I fly is LW and generally all I see are spits. IMO the FW190s are holding their own as I said before maybe it's pixie dust because I haven't changed anything in my settings.
-
Originally posted by Crumpp
Please feel free to point out where any "conspiracy" is mentioned?? What a silly thing to imply.
There was the implication that the CT staff could change the flight characteristics of planes. Cliffra's research shows that, with the exception of fuel burn rate, this isn't so (except for people who use the stall limiter). I think it's important that everyone know that, because from time to time some have accused CT staffers of changing settings to promote their favorite planes.
So, now that it's all been explained, we can forget about that, yes?
- oldman
-
I flew the 190 A5 last night, wanting to get back into my old ride, I also flew it in the CT. There is no difference.
How in the world did you fly it last night in the CT? It has not been available since Thursday night.
We were supposed to have another day to check it out but Oldman made an error and flight was disabled for axis. The arena changed over shortly afterwards.
boy have I improved overnight then. I was K/D 12:0 while I was flying alone in a Dora. I suffered a few deaths last night doing base defense and coming to aid of squaddie who squawked for help claiming to be at 2k when he was in fact at 12k (sure is hard to read the LW guages now). I don't care about my score at all I mention this because generally all I fly is LW and generally all I see are spits. IMO the FW190s are holding their own as I said before maybe it's pixie dust because I haven't changed anything in my settings.
Yeah I guess suddenly everyone improved in skill in the Focke Wulf. Of course when AH2 first came out, I had the same success.
I went from 105 kills and 30 assist in 128 sorties in the last CT tour down from 59 kills, 26 assist in 142 sorties during FinnRuss.
The Finruss stats are pretty much average for the past several months of FW-190 flying. Before that my stats go back up to the the same level as this last CT tour.
Gotta just be me as nobody else who flys the Focke Wulf in the CT is experiencing the same thing.
All the best,
Crumpp
-
I was unclear, didn't fly it in the CT last night.
I flew it before the setup changed and I tested in in the MA at the same time, aswell as offline. There was no difference.
Other then that I got back in it in the MA last night and it felt the same as in the CT prior aswell as offline.
-
I flew it before the setup changed and I tested in in the MA at the same time, aswell as offline. There was no difference.
I flew the FW190A5 in the main and you are correct. It has not changed. This has been a CT characteristic.
All the best,
Crumpp
-
Originally posted by Oldman731
Not to be irritating, but this is the first I've heard of this. Would be interested to hear how to do it.
- oldman
Originally posted by straffo
conspiracy theories again ?
OM yes you can do alota wierd stuff with the arena settings. And straffo go cheack out the facts before opening your mouth.
MA is setup by HTC and everything works right. But CT is setup by CMs that maynot know what some settings do. Thats why I think sometimes the planes dont fly right.
Yall say that the "Stall AoA" only works when you have "Stall Limiter" on. Well if you take a look in the settings you would know that the CM can enable and disable stall limiter for everyone in the arena regaurdless if you have it on or off. So if SL is enabled for the arena and sAoA is messed with then all planes will stall out easyer BUT since the 190 already stalls out easy then its like paper cought in the wind. You will notice that all other planes stall easyer to but they dont stall or wingdip like the 190s do so its not as bad. All that say fuel burn might be the thing thats screwing it up, but thats not the problem. Iv always took less fuel in the CT then I do in the MA, but everything is screwy in the CT because I have less fuel? I dont see how that is.
-
Originally posted by Crumpp
I flew the FW190A5 in the main and you are correct. It has not changed. This has been a CT characteristic.
All the best,
Crumpp
Are you trying your very best to missread and missunderstand or is that something that just happens??? :huh
Note this part and read it carefully: I flew it before the setup changed and I tested in in the MA at the same time, aswell as offline. There was no difference.
That means I flew it in the COMBAT THEATER before it changed to a new setting and I compared that to the current MA and also Offline with my own setup.
It hasn't changed nor was it different in the CT.
-
Originally posted by Wilbus
Are you trying your very best to missread and missunderstand or is that something that just happens??? :huh
Note this part and read it carefully:
That means I flew it in the COMBAT THEATER before it changed to a new setting and I compared that to the current MA and also Offline with my own setup.
It hasn't changed nor was it different in the CT.
Wilbus the Cms can change the stall limeter and stall AoA any time they wish. Some weeks you cant stall a plane at all and some weeks you bearly pull on the stick and you stall out. Its all up to the CM to make the settings to what he thinks they should be. A few months after AH2 came out we were flying the CT and you had to hit a plane with 4-5 30mms to take off thier wing, yet the allied planes seen normal. after a while fork came in and we told him about it. He went into the setting and found one of the ammo lethalitys were tuned down he set it to normal and it was fixed.
-
Originally posted by Larry
Yall say that the "Stall AoA" only works when you have "Stall Limiter" on.
"We" dont say it, HT says it. Not to be blunt, but I should believe you over HT?
-
It really doesnt matter who said it. But when you mess with those two settings it screws up the planes stall. You notice it more on the 190s because of thier already high stall. And it can and has happened in the CT.
-
Larry, I am very aware of what changes can be set and what can't be set. I was on the special events team for a while + I mess around offline.
LETHALITY IS NOT THE SAME AS FLIGHT MODELL.
Lethality can be changed ALOT both up and down. That does NOT affect stall.
The way planes perform is based on a flight modell code which exists in your computer UNLESS you use Stall Limiter and then, and only then, can your FM be affected through the server. Changing the AoA changes the AoA for people with stall limiter ONLY. Believe me or don't believe me, it is up to you.
I've messed around with it my self + Hitech said so in a post himself. Uhm, let's see who might be right?
Geeee guys...
-
Originally posted by Wilbus
Larry, I am very aware of what changes can be set and what can't be set. I was on the special events team for a while + I mess around offline.
LETHALITY IS NOT THE SAME AS FLIGHT MODELL.
Lethality can be changed ALOT both up and down. That does NOT affect stall.
The way planes perform is based on a flight modell code which exists in your computer UNLESS you use Stall Limiter and then, and only then, can your FM be affected through the server. Changing the AoA changes the AoA for people with stall limiter ONLY. Believe me or don't believe me, it is up to you.
I've messed around with it my self + Hitech said so in a post himself. Uhm, let's see who might be right?
Geeee guys...
I never said anything close to lethality messing with the flight model. I said the CMs can mess up settings and screw the arena up, and how planes fly in there. I gave an example of it. Just like with the H2Hers make the planes have the ammo up 100x it messes with how the plane flys.
-
Originally posted by Larry
Wilbus the Cms can change the stall limeter and stall AoA any time they wish. Some weeks you cant stall a plane at all and some weeks you bearly pull on the stick and you stall out. Its all up to the CM to make the settings to what he thinks they should be. A few months after AH2 came out we were flying the CT and you had to hit a plane with 4-5 30mms to take off thier wing, yet the allied planes seen normal. after a while fork came in and we told him about it. He went into the setting and found one of the ammo lethalitys were tuned down he set it to normal and it was fixed.
Nope you mentioned lethality though. I never said you said lethality messed with the FM.
I mentioned that lethality is not the same as FM as lethality can be directly controlled though the server/host/arena. The FM can't (except for stall limiter which I have already explained).
CM's can't mess up the FM by changing anything apart from AoA when it comes to stall limiter (and even then stall limiter must be enabled at each persons FE)
I never said anything close to lethality messing with the flight model. I said the CMs can mess up settings and screw the arena up, and how planes fly in there. I gave an example of it. Just like with the H2Hers make the planes have the ammo up 100x it messes with how the plane flys.
Max ammo multiplier is 10 times. It does not mess with how planes fly, it is just a number. The weight is not added.
-
Actually.. max ammo SLIDER stops at 10x. If you type in a multiple by hand that is 20 or 100 times more, it will work too.
EDIT: Oh and I've done a lot of HTH. You can force the stall limiter on for all players, and then monkey with the AOA. If you set it to 90 people can't do anything but fly straight lol.
-
Like krusty said you can type the number. And yes one of the HTC staffers said is adds more wieght and makes it harder to fly. I didnt say anything about messing with the FM only HTC can redo that. Im taking about the stall limit and stall AoA. And as I said bofore they can turn the stall limit on for all people even if you have it off. Then the stall AoA effects you to.
-
Negative on the extra weight... Whatever loadout you choose in the hangar is the weight of all your ammo. That never gets lighter until it drops below default. That's been proven, otherwise HTH rooms with 200x ammo you'd never be able to take off.
-
Ok then then thats what I read. If you dump ammo you loos the weight.
-
CC, if you have default (1x) ammo, and you dump ammo, you will lose weight. Say you're in a spit with 240 rounds 20mm. You have 240 rounds' weight in your plane.
Say you have 2x ammo, though, and it lists 480 rounds 20mm, you will only have 240 rounds' weight, until you drop that ammo to 239, then it decreases as normal.
-
Kwel didn't know you could bring it higher.
The weight issue is a fact though. 3000 rounds or 300 rounds would make one hell of a difference in climb rate for example. Go offline and try it yourself. No difference.
-
Originally posted by Oldman731
There was the implication that the CT staff could change the flight characteristics of planes. Cliffra's research shows that, with the exception of fuel burn rate, this isn't so (except for people who use the stall limiter). I think it's important that everyone know that, because from time to time some have accused CT staffers of changing settings to promote their favorite planes.
So, now that it's all been explained, we can forget about that, yes?
- oldman
I think we have the explaination of the difference in behaviour between arena.
-
No, we don't. Fuel burn is not an issue. In the MA you might take a full load of gas and have 50% by the time you climb out and are at the fight. In the CT you take maybe 50% and have 25% by the time you get to the fight, or LESS. That means they would perform better, fly as if lighter, *not* that it would screw with stall settings.
All I know is that several times over the years I've had no problems flying a plane at all, and I go to the the CT and that plane (which I'm rather good with, but not great) can't stop flopping around, and I can't even "pull up" gently without snap stalling. I'm talking the whole gamut from P51s to 109s to 190s. I never knew what caused it. I still don't. But it sure as hell ain't fuel burn.
-
I dont think straffo gets it. Iv been flying CT for over 4 years, but this stuff only happens every once and a while. The fuel burn in the CT is eather 1 or sometimes when jester sets it up he puts it to 1.25 or 1.50, and its never happened in one of his setups so you cant blame that. OM I dont think CM change the settings so other planes fly like crap. I think the CMs change the settings and not understand what one setting does and it screws with the stall by mistake.
-
Urgh. You can not screw with stall by changing settings like that.
And believe me, the CM's know what they change. It really isn't that difficult, doesn't exactly require a rocket scientist to do it and understand it.
-
I two years I have never seen or felt what you guys describe.
-
Wilbus yes you can. And no disrespect to OM but hes kinda new to setuping up arenas and messes them up sometimes. Even you you have your stall limiter disabled a CM might mistake the "Enable Stall Limiter" button thinking it will let people enable it if they want instead of what it really does enableing stall limiter for EVERYONE in that arena nomatter what you have your settting at. And if he didnt make the stall AoA at the right seting. If set to high then you cant stall you plane out if set to low this its floping around like a fish.
-
Originally posted by Grits
I two years I have never seen or felt what you guys describe.
Because you dont fly planes that are easy to stall in the CT. The easyer the plane stalls the more you notice it. Im not just talking about LW other planes with high stall do the same.
-
Crumpp and I squared off in an A-8 vs an A-5. As one would expect, the A-5 performed better than the A-8. Better turn, climb and acceleration.
I did not see any change in the A-5. It is as it's been since AH2 went live.
190s require different skills than a Spitfire and have different flight characteristics. However, it can be flown with great success when used to its strengths, rather than trying to beat the other guy at what his plane does best. If HTC adjusts the weights to where they should be, the 190s will improve markedly.
My regards,
Widewing
-
Originally posted by Larry
Because you dont fly planes that are easy to stall in the CT. The easyer the plane stalls the more you notice it. Im not just talking about LW other planes with high stall do the same.
Really? I dont? I fly the LuftWubbie planes just as much as I do the Ackllied planes TK, I just dont fly the LW planes when you are there. P-40's stall bad too and I didnt notice it in them.
Originally posted by Widewing
I did not see any change in the A-5. It is as it's been since AH2 went live.
Of course you are right, but you probably arent affected by sugar pills either. :)
-
190s require different skills than a Spitfire and have different flight characteristics. However, it can be flown with great success when used to its strengths, rather than trying to beat the other guy at what his plane does best. If HTC adjusts the weights to where they should be, the 190s will improve markedly.
We did not square off. You followed me around. I went at it with some when you took the FW-190A5 and I was in an 4 MG151/20 armed FW-190A8 to see what it could do with full wing armament. Unlike Focke Wulfs own testing, there is a difference in performance in AH with full wing cannon.
Historically the FW-190A5 is the worst performing of the Antons. Grab any aeronautical engineering text and find out what happens when you add weight and no power to a design. The only plus on the FW-190A5's side is the CG adjustment.
The FW-190A8 was faster and could pull a tighter angle of bank. It gained less weight than the Spitfire design and just as much power. There should be little difference between the angle performance of a full wing armament FW-190A3, like the one tested by the RAE, and the FW-190A8. Especially since the CG range is much better in the FW-190A8.
The FW190 series cannot be flown as it was used by the Luftwaffe. The FW-190A5 is the closest but is a complete piece of fiction based on a reballasted FW-190G. Not even the same motor.
It cannot even match the allied test's of captured examples.
All the best,
Crumpp
-
I did not see any change in the A-5.
Read the thread too Widewing. While we all appreciate your sweeping declaration. The arena with the difference in the behavoir is the CT not the TA.
No claims have been made about the behavior of the FW190 in any other arena.
All the best,
Crumpp
-
Well Crumpp, do you have any idea about the weight/power used by Pyro in AH 190s?
-
Originally posted by Crumpp
Read the thread too Widewing. While we all appreciate your sweeping declaration. The arena with the difference in the behavoir is the CT not the TA.
No claims have been made about the behavior of the FW190 in any other arena.
All the best,
Crumpp
I read the thread and it started out asking if the 190A-5 FM had changed. It hasn't.... which means, end of discussion.
My regards,
Widewing
-
Originally posted by Crumpp
We did not square off. You followed me around. I went at it with some when you took the FW-190A5 and I was in an 4 MG151/20 armed FW-190A8 to see what it could do with full wing armament.
Now wait a minute. I took off in a 190A-5, and before the wheels were barely up you roared in guns blazing....
You missed and from there on it was.... Well, just watch the film. ;)
Crumpp 190A-8 Vs Widewing 190A-5 (http://home.att.net/~historyworld/A5vsA8.zip)
My regards,
Widewing
-
Man you have a reading comprehension problem.
Read it again:
Crumpp says:
I went at it with some when you took the FW-190A5 and I was in an 4 MG151/20 armed FW-190A8 to see what it could do with full wing armament.
Widewing says:
I read the thread and it started out asking if the 190A-5 FM had changed.
Either your do not understand english, have no concept of the flow of a conversation, or are simply being a troll.
Reread the thread and this time understand it when someone post's:
Crumpp says in his second post of the thread:
It has changed in the CT. I don't know about the main.
Crumpp says after testing the FM in the main:
The test in the main showed that there were not changes in that arena to the FM.
I don't fly in the Main, Widewing. Only the CT.
Widewing says:
It hasn't.... which means, end of discussion.
No, It means you do not read very well.
All the best,
Crumpp
-
Originally posted by Grits
Really? I dont? I fly the LuftWubbie planes just as much as I do the Ackllied planes TK, I just dont fly the LW planes when you are there. P-40's stall bad too and I didnt notice it in them.
Im in there pretty much everynight, and Im one of the last to leave the arena most the time, and 95% of the time I see you on your flying allied. P40s dont stall bad I used to fly both B and E alot and they are great when turning.
Widewing read the first post where storch said,
"go and fly it against a spitV or even a spitVIII. the CT would be a good venue this week, until Friday when the set up changes. please post your impressions/results here."
no one said anything about the FM. Just how it was flying in the CT NOT any other arena.
Originally posted by MANDO
Well Crumpp, do you have any idea about the weight/power used by Pyro in AH 190s?
If crumpp says something isnt right with the 190s then something isnt right with them. You have to know something about them when your helping restore one and writing a book. And like he said before he has so much info on them hes still finding pages that he didnt even know he had.
-
Originally posted by Larry
If crumpp says something isnt right with the 190s then something isnt right with them. You have to know something about them when your helping restore one and writing a book. And like he said before he has so much info on them hes still finding pages that he didnt even know he had.
The point is to locate where the problem is, in the planes section we have the weights of 190A5 and A8, but, as far as I know, Pyro never poster the poweroutputs of these planes. May be we have a 190A5 with a clear weight/power advantage over A8.
-
Originally posted by Larry
Even you you have your stall limiter disabled a CM might mistake the "Enable Stall Limiter" button thinking it will let people enable it if they want instead of what it really does enableing stall limiter for EVERYONE in that arena nomatter what you have your settting at.
Not so, Tk. If you disable stall limiter, no one can use it. Enabling it lets you select it on your own computer (or not).
- oldman
-
Well Crumpp, do you have any idea about the weight/power used by Pyro in AH 190s?
For the FW190A5 HTC uses EB-104. For the FW-190A8, I honestly have no idea as it does not match Luftwaffe data. I suspect they were trying.
The weight matches an FW-190A8 with Zusatzkraftstoffbehälter im Rumpf. That is the fully loaded maximum take off weight with full winter kit, extra oil, topped off fuel, and ammo.
A clean fighter version would dump about 200Kg's fully loaded just in ETC 501/Zusatzkraftstoffbehälter im Rumpf. The CG would be in a better position, moving forward lowering the stall speed too.
May be we have a 190A5 with a clear weight/power advantage over A8.
Right now we do have this situation. You can still find quite a few sources that have the BMW801D2 not gaining a bit of power in 4 years of conflict. If the power production was modeled the same as the FW-190A8 and the incorrect weight the FM would have a substantial P/W advantage.
All the best,
Crumpp
-
Not so OM I tested it offline.
-
BTW Larry, try to explain the following:
We have a 190A5 and a heavier and 190A8, 190A8 has also some extra drag from the MG mounting and both run at the very same ATA at military power. Who should be faster? 190A5 may be? Surprise, both has the same top military speed at sea level. Any explanation for that?
-
Originally posted by Crumpp
I don't fly in the Main, Widewing. Only the CT.
No, It means you do not read very well.
All the best,
Crumpp
I don't care if you fly in your bathroom, the fact remains that the flight model has not changed. Maybe there's an arena setting that is humping things up (which should equally affect all aircraft), but that IS NOT the flight model....
I agree that the 190 is overweight. But, to date I have never had stall trouble with any 190 in any arena. If you watched the film, you may note that you were flopping all over the place flying the A-8. I was not doing that in the A-5. That's not the airplane as much as it is the pilot, or perhaps your stick settings. 190s demand smooth control input or they mush and drop wings.
Try different stick sensitivity settings. Fly smoothly, avoid large and fast stick displacement. There maybe other reasons for getting into stall problems beyond those you blame.
My regards,
Widewing
-
From what I understand the 190A5 we have is modeled from a capured 190G with a damaged aileron.
-
If you watched the film, you may note that you were flopping all over the place flying the A-8. I was not doing that in the A-5.
Wanna refilm it?
You take a 4 cannon FW-190A8 and I will take that 2 cannon FW-190A5......
You can change your stick settings anyway you would like too!!!
All the best,
Crumpp
-
Originally posted by storch
go and fly it against a spitV or even a spitVIII. the CT would be a good venue this week, until Friday when the set up changes. please post your impressions/results here.
this is what I asked widewing, please show me where I said there was a change in the FM?
-
Wide I fly the 190 and 109s in both arenas. I fly LW 99% of the time. And this only happens in the CT. Yes there is a setting that will screw with ALL planes stalls nomatter what your stall limiter is set to but you only really feel it in planes with bad stalls, and becuase JG54 is a LW squad we mostly fly LW so we feel it in 190s.
EDIT: The week in question I flew the 190a5 and it wasnt as easy to stall or wingdip. It was almost as easy as flying a P51.
-
From what I understand the 190A5 we have is modeled from a capured 190G with a damaged aileron.
We are confusing test's here. I cannot find any evidence EB-104 had ailerons out of adjustment.
That is the USN tactical trials against an F6F/F4U and RAE 1231. In both of those reports the FW190 exhibits clear signs listed in Luftwaffe Technical Bulletins and the ailerion adjustment regulations of having ailerons in need of adjustment.
Improper adjustment causes both roll rate to diminish and premature stalling in the turns.
All the best,
Crumpp
-
Originally posted by Crumpp
We are confusing test's here. I cannot find any evidence EB-104 had ailerons out of adjustment.
That is the USN tactical trials against an F6F/F4U and RAE 1231. In both of those reports the FW190 exhibits clear signs listed in Luftwaffe Technical Bulletins and the ailerion adjustment regulations of having ailerons in need of adjustment.
Improper adjustment causes both roll rate to diminish and premature stalling in the turns.
All the best,
Crumpp
Ok wrong test:D
-
Ok wrong test
No problem! :p
-
Originally posted by Crumpp
Wanna refilm it?
You take a 4 cannon FW-190A8 and I will take that 2 cannon FW-190A5......
You can change your stick settings anyway you would like too!!!
All the best,
Crumpp
Sure. Fly whatever you like.
I flew the A-5 with 50% gas vs your 25% in the A-8 (check it on the film).
I'm in the arena most Wednesdays nights and always on Thursday evening. I also spend time there on Friday and Saturday, I just never know for sure what times in advance. So, look for me on Thursday evening between 8 PM and 10 PM Eastern.
Standard dueling rules if you prefer... It matters not...
My regards,
Widewing
-
Originally posted by storch
this is what I asked widewing, please show me where I said there was a change in the FM?
Sorry Storch, I didn't mean to imply that you had made that statement. I was responding to Crumpp's repeated claims stemming from this comment early in the thread:
"I was born at night, but it was not last night.
BS. It has changed in the CT. I don't know about the main."
My regards,
Widewing
-
I flew the A-5 with 50% gas vs your 25% in the A-8 (check it on the film).
You better check that again. I don't remember taking 25 Percent fuel.
If you go into the cockpit view it only shows your gauges not mine.
I will see you this week.
I was responding to Crumpp's repeated claims stemming from this comment early in the thread:
READ my comments. I clearly state IN THE CT.
Are you on medication?
All the best,
Crumpp
-
Originally posted by Larry
Im in there pretty much everynight, and Im one of the last to leave the arena most the time, and 95% of the time I see you on your flying allied.
I said:
I fly the LuftWubbie planes just as much as I do the Ackllied planes TK, I just dont fly the LW planes when you are there.
See where I said "I just dont fly the LW planes when you are there"? Actually I dont fly either side much anymore.
I dont fly the CT like I used to, which was almost exclusively. When I did fly there almost exclusivlely I flew Axis probably 75% of the time as the Axis were usually outnumbered or have you forgotten that? It does it fit your delusion better if I never did fly Axis though doesnt it?
-
Ok yes you fly Axis planes but mostly 109Fs and 110G2s. Which dont stall like the 190. Except the 110s flat stall, but thats modeled into the FM. It does that from the torque of the two enignes turning the same way. Just like it does in the mossi.
-
Originally posted by Grits
I dont fly the CT like I used to, which was almost exclusively.
Gee, why?