Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: 1K3 on December 02, 2005, 02:55:29 AM
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4490842.stm
:aok :aok
rapists and murderers BEWARE!;)
Texas - 355
Virginia - 94
Oklahoma - 79
Missouri - 66
Florida - 60
Georgia - 39
North Carolina - 38
South Carolina, Alabama - 34 each
Louisiana, Arkansas - 27 each
Arizona - 22
Ohio - 19
Indiana - 16
Delaware - 14
Illinois - 12
Nevada, California - 11 each
Mississippi, Utah - 6 each
Maryland, Washington - 4 each
Nebraska, Pennsylvania - 3 each
Kentucky, Montana, Oregon - 2 each
Colorado, Connecticut, Idaho, New Mexico, Tennessee, Wyoming - 1 each
US government - 3
(*NOTE: US EXECUTIONS since 1976)
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12 percent of people who sit in Death Row innocent beware too! :aok
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only 1,000 in 20 years??
Damn we need to pick up the pace
Sorry, no pity here for people who stalk, then murder their victims
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where do you get the 12% are innocent figure? and....
innocent of what? the crime that they are being executed for? I doubt many are innocent of all crimes that deserve execution...
lazs
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I pulled the 12% out of my hat. According to Google sources 1 out of 7 death row inmates have been found not guilty before their execution and freed. That makes a bit over 14%. And that's the lucky ones - every innocent inmate won't have that luxury.
Then again there must be cases where a guilty inmate gets scott free too.
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They don't get found innocent. It's not easy to get convicted of a crime which will result in the death penalty. I'd say they either get off on a technicality or represented themselves.
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
I pulled the 12% out of my hat. According to Google sources 1 out of 7 death row inmates have been found not guilty before their execution and freed. That makes a bit over 14%. And that's the lucky ones - every innocent inmate won't have that luxury.
Then again there must be cases where a guilty inmate gets scott free too.
wouldn't that indicate that those that are innocent (or proven innocent, and I'm assuming here, by DNA evidence) are allready off of death row?
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
wouldn't that indicate that those that are innocent (or proven innocent, and I'm assuming here, by DNA evidence) are allready off of death row?
Except those among the 1000 and allready dead.
BTw is death penalty a good deterent ?
Debate is open.
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Originally posted by straffo
Except those among the 1000 and allready dead.
BTw is death penalty a good deterent ?
Debate is open.
Over history Ma has always had a low murder rate compared to states that have the death penalty.
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I'd say that it is not a good deterrant. Not because the death penalty is bad...
But because it isn't used enough.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
I'd say that it is not a good deterrant. Not because the death penalty is bad...
But because it isn't used enough.
Or made public...maybe if some people saw what an Electric chair execution looked like (oops forgot the bleeding hearts have forced most states to abandon ole sparky) They might think twice about what they are doing.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
I'd say that it is not a good deterrant. Not because the death penalty is bad...
But because it isn't used enough.
Not to mention it dont work
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Only 355?
What the...?
Come on Texas...:furious
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Or made public...maybe if some people saw what an Electric chair execution looked like (oops forgot the bleeding hearts have forced most states to abandon ole sparky) They might think twice about what they are doing.
Holy ****. You are my new best friend.
I don't have the statistic off hand. But what's the ratio of murderers who get executed to those murderers who don't?
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Originally posted by fartwinkle
Not to mention it dont work
In your opinion.
there are those if us that feel differently.
I agree wiht Lasersailor.
Its not used enough to be a deterrent.
You do a capitol punishment crime even if convicted and the odds of you actually being executed are pretty slim.
Therefore it is impossable to guage how effective it is or isnt.
I do know one thing.
No person who has received the death penalty has ever commited another crime. inside or outside prison.
And that is good enough for me.
Better that then my tax money going to support these lowlifes in overcrowded prisons with full healthcare and 3 squares a day for the rest of their lives.
Their victims didnt get that opporunity.
They didnt even get the opportunity to thrive or starve on their own.
The only opportunity they got was a free ride to the morgue and to lay inside a box before their time was up.
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We're in such good company too!
* Afghanistan
* Antigua and Barbuda
* Bahamas
* Bahrain
* Bangladesh
* Barbados
* Belarus
* Belize
* Botswana
* Burundi
* Cameroon
* Chad
* China (People's Republic)
* Comoros
* Congo (Democratic Republic)
* Cuba
* Dominica
* Egypt
* Equatorial Guinea
* Eritrea
* Ethiopia
* Gabon
* Ghana
* Guatemala
* Guinea
* Guyana
* India
* Indonesia
* Iran
* Iraq
* Jamaica
* Japan
* Jordan
* Kazakhstan
* Korea, North
* Korea, South
* Kuwait
* Kyrgyzstan
* Laos
* Lebanon
* Lesotho
* Liberia
* Libya
* Malawi
* Malaysia
* Mongolia
* Nigeria
* Oman
* Pakistan
* Palestinian Authority
* Philippines
* Qatar
* Rwanda
* St. Kitts and Nevis
* St. Lucia
* St. Vincent and the Grenadines
* Saudi Arabia
* Sierra Leone
* Singapore
* Somalia
* Sudan
* Swaziland
* Syria
* Taiwan
* Tajikistan
* Tanzania
* Thailand
* Trinidad and Tobago
* Uganda
* United Arab Emirates
* United States
* Uzbekistan
* Vietnam
* Yemen
* Zambia
* Zimbabwe
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Public execution.
Now there is a stat I would like to see.
What is the murder rate percentage in proportion to the population in countries that have public executions lie say, Saudi Arabia for example compaired to those countries that dont
(Acts of terrorism dont count)
Personally I am in favor of public execution. and the more inhumane the better
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Originally posted by fartwinkle
Not to mention it dont work
Bingo.
(http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/DeterMRates3.GIF)
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Is the death penalty a good deterant. IMO yes. It has a 100% success rate for no recidivism. Not one single person who gets it ever commits another rape, murder or other crime. That statistic is heads and shoulders above the recidivism rate for all other means of crime punishment and or treatment. Does that mean I consider it suitable for all crimes, absolutely not.
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Originally posted by Sandman
We're in such good company too!
* Afghanistan
* Antigua and Barbuda
* Bahamas
* Bahrain
* Bangladesh
* Barbados
* Belarus
* Belize
* Botswana
* Burundi
* Cameroon
* Chad
* China (People's Republic)
* Comoros
* Congo (Democratic Republic)
* Cuba
* Dominica
* Egypt
* Equatorial Guinea
* Eritrea
* Ethiopia
* Gabon
* Ghana
* Guatemala
* Guinea
* Guyana
* India
* Indonesia
* Iran
* Iraq
* Jamaica
* Japan
* Jordan
* Kazakhstan
* Korea, North
* Korea, South
* Kuwait
* Kyrgyzstan
* Laos
* Lebanon
* Lesotho
* Liberia
* Libya
* Malawi
* Malaysia
* Mongolia
* Nigeria
* Oman
* Pakistan
* Palestinian Authority
* Philippines
* Qatar
* Rwanda
* St. Kitts and Nevis
* St. Lucia
* St. Vincent and the Grenadines
* Saudi Arabia
* Sierra Leone
* Singapore
* Somalia
* Sudan
* Swaziland
* Syria
* Taiwan
* Tajikistan
* Tanzania
* Thailand
* Trinidad and Tobago
* Uganda
* United Arab Emirates
* United States
* Uzbekistan
* Vietnam
* Yemen
* Zambia
* Zimbabwe
So whats your point?
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
So whats your point?
For the most part, the only countries that still use capital punishment are third world **** holes that you wouldn't want to live in.
We're the ones that are supposed to be advanced. We pride ourselves on being the best and brightest at everything, but when it comes to crime and punishment, we're rather barbaric in comparison to the rest of our more advanced friends.
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Originally posted by Sandman
Bingo.
(http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/DeterMRates3.GIF)
Again. thats a meaningless statistic.
Because the death penalty is so rarely used even in death penalty states.
NJ has the death penaly. yet we havent executed anyone since the death penalty has been brought back.
None, naa nill.
So how can it be said its not a deterrent when its rarely, and in our case never, been used.
Totally meaningless statistic
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Again. thats a meaningless statistic.
Because the death penalty is so rarely used even in death penalty states.
NJ has the death penaly. yet we havent executed anyone since the death penalty has been brought back.
None, naa nill.
So how can it be said its not a deterrent when its rarely, and in our case never, been used.
Totally meaningless statistic
..and yet you cling to your opinion that the death penalty is an effective deterrent.
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Originally posted by Sandman
For the most part, the only countries that still use capital punishment are third world **** holes that you wouldn't want to live in.
We're the ones that are supposed to be advanced. We pride ourselves on being the best and brightest at everything, but when it comes to crime and punishment, we're rather barbaric in comparison to the rest of our more advanced friends.
Just because they are third world countires doesnt mean that all their laws and methods are bad. Or incorrect
Rome was once more advanced then the rest of the world too
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Its just too bad all the prayer energy and foolish defending of a admitted killer goes to waste. They always seem to play up how the prisoner has "changed his ways, found God (why are we building churches if people keep finding him there???)...etc etc.. They seem to minimize the crime, the effect on the victims and they're families.
I dunno... *shrug*
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Originally posted by Sandman
..and yet you cling to your opinion that the death penalty is an effective deterrent.
And your claiming it isnt when it hasnt seriously been tried?
One thing is for sure.
NOT executing them hasnt worked
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Originally posted by LePaul
Its just too bad all the prayer energy and foolish defending of a admitted killer goes to waste. They always seem to play up how the prisoner has "changed his ways, found God (why are we building churches if people keep finding him there???)...etc etc.. They seem to minimize the crime, the effect on the victims and they're families.
I dunno... *shrug*
I've known several who have done time. and by "time" I mean years in prison.
EVERYONE who goes to prison "changes their ways" and "finds God" while in prison.
And most once they get out remember their old ways and might as well say "God who?"
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
And your claiming it isnt when it hasnt seriously been tried?
One thing is for sure.
NOT executing them hasnt worked
I've provided statistics that indicate otherwise. What do you have?
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Originally posted by Sandman
I've provided statistics that indicate otherwise. What do you have?
Your statistics indicate nothing and are in fact totally meaningless in light of the fact that death penalty is only rarely ever actually carried out.
and everyone knows this. So how is that supposed to act or be seen as as a deterrent?
If it were frequently carried out on a consistant,steady and regular basis in the death penalty states over a period of time THEN your statisics of states that have the penalty Vrs states that dont would mean something.
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Let me dig up some numbers. I'll try to find how many murderers were executed last year compared to how many murderers there were.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Your statistics indicate nothing and are in fact totally meaningless in light of the fact that death penalty is only rarely ever actually carried out.
and everyone knows this. So how is that supposed to act or be seen as as a deterrent?
If it were frequently carried out on a consistant,steady and regular basis in the death penalty states over a period of time THEN your statisics of states that have the penalty Vrs states that dont would mean something.
So... you have no facts to support your opinion that the death penalty is an effective deterrent.
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Ok. Just from my brief search, I found the following.
Murder and victim characteristics, 2002
In 2002, the year in which the most recent comprehensive data are
available, the FBI reported a total of 16,200 murders or nonnegligent
manslaughters. The total represents a 1% increase from the 16,040
murders recorded in 2001. The FBI defines murder in its annual Crime
in the United States as the willful (nonnegligent) killing of one human
being by another. Not included are deaths caused by negligence, suicide,
or accident; justifiable homicides; and attempts to murder or assaults to
murder, which are scored as aggravated assaults. The FBI's UCR
program gathers statistics on murder from over 17,000 city, county, and
State law enforcement agencies.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/ascii/cv03.txt
71 People Executed in 2002.
The following stats are for all time since 1976:
99% of people executed are Male.
51% of the victims were Male.
57% of the people executed were White. 34% were black. 6% were latino.
80% of the victims were White. 13% were black. 4% latino.
There are 3459 people on death row (at the time of printing this article)
42% black, 46% white, and 10 % latino.
http://www.naacpldf.org/content/pdf/pubs/drusa/DRUSA_Spring_2005.pdf
So time for a little number crunching. In 2002, there were 71 people executed. There were also 16,200 murders.
This gives us an astounding 0.00438% percantage of executed to murderers in 2002.
Going over this again, I'm seeing some flawed conclusions. Not because the data is bad, but because it is confusing as to select what years to do it.
I.E. There were 71 people executed in 2002, however they were most likely convicted and sentenced a few years earlier.
The first report did say that the murder rate stayed around 16,000 without rising or falling too much.
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Well... the first step is determining if the death penalty does indeed deter murders. If we can get there, then we can try to determine if there's a corrolation between the number of death penalties and the number of murders.
Just for the record... I'm not necessarily against the death penalty. Some people really should be put to death, IMHO. I simply doubt the effectiveness of the death penalty as a deterrent. That said, the death penalty is 100% effective in preventing recidivism.
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Originally posted by Sandman
So... you have no facts to support your opinion that the death penalty is an effective deterrent.
Just as your have no facts to back up your claim it isnt as your claim is based on data that is flawed at best.
thus invalid and meaningless
Because the Death penalty is so rarely ever actually carried out it is impossable to determine conclusively. that it doesnt work or for that matter work as a deterrant.
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Originally posted by ASTAC
Or made public...maybe if some people saw what an Electric chair execution looked like (oops forgot the bleeding hearts have forced most states to abandon ole sparky) They might think twice about what they are doing.
good lord, i pretty much agree with you, hell, the damn thing is sinister enough by itself to act as a deterrant...on the average joe that is, nothing buy old sparky is gonna stop the psychos...
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Just as your have no facts to back up your claim it isnt as your claim is based on data that is flawed at best.
thus invalid and meaningless
Because the Death penalty is so rarely ever actually carried out it is impossable to determine conclusively. that it doesnt work or for that matter work as a deterrant.
* Researchers did a comparison of murder rates and rates of sub-types of murder in Oklahoma between 1989 and 1991, and found a significant increase in murders (both felony and non-felony) after Oklahoma resumed executions after a 25-year moratorium.
* Researchers Keith Harries and Derral Cheatwood studied differences in homicides in 293-paired counties. Pairings were based on: geographic location and demographic and economic variables; a shared contiguous border; differing use of capital punishment. The authors found higher violent crime rates in death penalty counties.
* The Bureau of Justice Statistics reports that the South repeatedly has the highest murder rate. In 1999, it was the only region with a murder rate above the national rate. The South accounts for 80% of executions. The Northeast, which accounts for less than 1% of all executions in the U.S., has the lowest murder rate.
source (http://www.amnestyusa.org/abolish/factsheets/deterrence.html)
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Originally posted by Sandman
Well... the first step is determining if the death penalty does indeed deter murders. If we can get there, then we can try to determine if there's a corrolation between the number of death penalties and the number of murders.
Just for the record... I'm not necessarily against the death penalty. Some people really should be put to death, IMHO. I simply doubt the effectiveness of the death penalty as a deterrent. That said, the death penalty is 100% effective in preventing recidivism.
See thats my point
While I understand the flawed data LS sites I would guess the actual numbers when compaired to the
"This gives us an astounding 0.00438% percantage of executed to murderers in 2002."
That LS mentions wouldnt be terribly different percentage wise.
Untill you can at the very least get into whole numbers it is impossable to determine how effective the death penalty is.
LOL Looking at those percentages you probably have a better chance at winning the mega millions lottery then in actually getting the death penalty
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Originally posted by Sandman
* Researchers did a comparison of murder rates and rates of sub-types of murder in Oklahoma between 1989 and 1991, and found a significant increase in murders (both felony and non-felony) after Oklahoma resumed executions after a 25-year moratorium.
* Researchers Keith Harries and Derral Cheatwood studied differences in homicides in 293-paired counties. Pairings were based on: geographic location and demographic and economic variables; a shared contiguous border; differing use of capital punishment. The authors found higher violent crime rates in death penalty counties.
* The Bureau of Justice Statistics reports that the South repeatedly has the highest murder rate. In 1999, it was the only region with a murder rate above the national rate. The South accounts for 80% of executions. The Northeast, which accounts for less than 1% of all executions in the U.S., has the lowest murder rate.
source (http://www.amnestyusa.org/abolish/factsheets/deterrence.html)
Ok but how many of the executions have actually been carried out?
Like I said. we hav the death penalty here in NJ too. and a whole bunch of people on death row. but we have yet to execute anyone since the death penalty was brought back.
Its reached the point here where nobody takes the death sentance seriously. Even the convicted.
Having it and actually using it is two different things and only after it has been consistantly used can anyone make any kind of meaningful determinations.
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Well, before we go back and forth many many times, I'll write a conclusion.
As it stands right now, only a small fraction of those that have murdered, are executed. The problem is whether or not this small number is a deterrant against further murders.
Some people believe it is not, because some statistics show that murder rates actually rise in counties that support the Death Penalty.
Some people believe that the death penalty is a deterrant, it just isn't used enough to actually deter people. As it stands right now, only a small fraction of a percentage of murderers get executed.
However, it is not debatable whether or not the death penalty actually is a deterrant unless we start executing a very large percentage of Murderers.
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Oh and also just for the record I am only in favor of the death penalty where there can be absolutely no question of guilt.
OJ for example if he were convicted would not get the death penalty.
Scott Peterson would be a close call but probably also wouldnt.
My feeling is if you intentionally murder in the first degree.
You took a life in that manner and there is no question of your guilt.
then you forfeit your own life.
People like Peterson or OJ while not getting the death penaly would be sentanced to life of hard labor with no chance of parole.
And I mean making little rocks out of big rocks kind of hard labor.
If your sentanced to life without parole there is no rehabilitation attempt.
Save that for only those who will ever be let out
Your sentaced to a life of misery for the rest of your days.
Prison should be punishment not a barred & walled retirement home.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
However, it is not debatable whether or not the death penalty actually is a deterrant unless we start executing a very large percentage of Murderers.
that is my point.
Outside of that kind of hard data entering into the mix for a period of time no conclusive claims can be made.
Other then that all we can say is what we beleive to be true.
I pesonally beleive that an active and frequently used death penalty would act as a deterrent.
but since its not all we are really doing is saying "boy, You gonna die"but we dont really mean it "
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http://teacher.deathpenaltyinfo.msu.edu/c/about/arguments/argument1a.htm
this seems reasonable.
http://mc4se.org/deteff.htm
or these seven studies.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
People like Peterson or OJ while not getting the death penaly would be sentanced to life of hard labor with no chance of parole.
And I mean making little rocks out of big rocks kind of hard labor.
If you put OJ in prison, how will he ever find the real murderers?
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
that is my point.
Outside of that kind of hard data entering into the mix for a period of time no conclusive claims can be made.
Other then that all we can say is what we beleive to be true.
I pesonally beleive that an active and frequently used death penalty would act as a deterrent.
but since its not all we are really doing is saying "boy, You gonna die"but we dont really mean it "
I personally don't believe criminals think they will be caught while they are committing crimes and if that is the case, then no punishment would be a deterrent. Better to think of capital punishment as a societal "cleansing", ridding us of the animalistic fringe that cannot grasp basic concepts such as right and wrong. Perhaps it could be considered a deterrent if looked at generationally, as in if we get rid of the murderers of today they won't be able to breed the murderers of tomorrow.
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The only true deterent is the absolute certainty of aphrehension.
Regards,
hh
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Well, before we go back and forth many many times, I'll write a conclusion.
As it stands right now, only a small fraction of those that have murdered, are executed. The problem is whether or not this small number is a deterrant against further murders.
Some people believe it is not, because some statistics show that murder rates actually rise in counties that support the Death Penalty.
Some people believe that the death penalty is a deterrant, it just isn't used enough to actually deter people. As it stands right now, only a small fraction of a percentage of murderers get executed.
However, it is not debatable whether or not the death penalty actually is a deterrant unless we start executing a very large percentage of Murderers.
They arent scared to kill someone is because they know all they have to to is get a lawyer and at most only get 20 years, but usually get released at 5-10 on good behavior. Get a really good lawyer and they get off scott free.
Here should be the basic laws
Kill someone on purpose, you die
Kill while DUI (alcohol, drugs, etc), you are killed right then and there. An example - If you are stupid enough to be too drunk or stoned to drive and you ram your vehicle into an innocent family on vacation and kill them all, you will be killed on sight.
Molest a child, death by hanging
Now if you are a terrorist and are involved or were about to execute an operation to kill innocent lives, you will be pubically executed on live television.
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I think Indiana should get credit for an additional one that has been credited to the federal government. Timothy McVeigh (the Oklahoma bomber) was executed in Terre Haute Indiana and we should get the credit for his execution.
All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1:)
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Originally posted by Sandman
For the most part, the only countries that still use capital punishment are third world **** holes that you wouldn't want to live in.
We're the ones that are supposed to be advanced. We pride ourselves on being the best and brightest at everything, but when it comes to crime and punishment, we're rather barbaric in comparison to the rest of our more advanced friends.
Well for those who are convicted and do or do not get the death penalty in the US, we give em the free healthcare,food,lodging, and produce some of the most educated convicts in the world. Want a free college education, go to prison and get it on our dime. You are comparing the US to the third world nations despite all the frigging safeguards and almost endless appeals that we grant that aren't available in the nations that you are comparing us to. Talk about a freaking revisionist liberal! Now tell me how much more advanced our friends are?
All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1:O
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Sandy,
Please tell me what benefit there is in warehousing creatures like those executed? I still do not see any reason to maintain folks like charley manson and others whose sole purpose seems to be to kill others for no reason. It is not considered uncivilized to put down a rabid animal, why should it be less so to remove a rabid human "animal" from preying on society.
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the seven most recent studies all indicate that the death penalty is a deterent. This would seem to make sense in light of the fact that so few who are on death row give up their right to fight the death penalty..
seems every one of em would give daily blow jobs in order to escape the death penalty for life in prison...
speaking of which... I say putting someone out of their missery with the death penalty is far more humane than the liberal.... "let em suffer for life" approch. that is the real barbarism.
lazs