Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: uberhun on December 03, 2005, 10:46:11 AM
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What happened to "don't ask don't tell?":rofl
http://www.wimp.com/airforce/
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Thats just wrong dude, but what can you expect with the kids that are out there now? If I was the line chief I would have that guy in my office for a little chat about proper marshaling signals.
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You guys are too funny. Those "kids" are what keeps those planes flying on a daily basis. They are the same ones working 12+ hour shifts while the folks who cry about how unprofessional they are sit in a comfy chair in an office somewhere.
You must not really have a clue about how close a real squadron can be.
Nobody really gives a watermelon about outsiders crying about stuff like this. The maintainers and aircrews on the F-15 are a tight nit group. They always have been and they always will be.
Hopefully there are more of airmen like this than there are of the uptight arses in the "line chief" slots.
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Actually I'm an insider. Been in the military since 1989. Seen combat in Desert Storm, been halfway around the world, and in my current job I have to deal with these kids everyday. You are right, that what they do is amazing considering their age and the hours they work, but a little professionalism goes a long way also. I'm not some uptight supervisior. I get along with all my guys and like to have a good time as much as anyone. The one time I don't joke around is when the job has to get done. That guys actions were inappropriate on the flight line, while marshaling aircraft. If you are not professional enough to recognize that then I guess I would have to lump you in with the kids that think it's all a big joke.
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That is in direct violation of the USAF strict code of nerdy squareness!
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Originally posted by Hornet33
The one time I don't joke around is when the job has to get done.
Damn Straight.
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When I was on the FL I would see crews joking with pilots all the time. Not something unusual.
Hell the pilots did more wrong than the crews. I remember being outside a pump house when a C-5 came past and the pilot saw I was close to the taxiway and he gunned the engine. My but rolled for at least 20 yrds and when I got up I saw the pilot with his head out the window laughing his butt off.
I didn't think anything other than that it was funny as hell.
Even on a hotpit where you had to be extra careful pilots would send an unsuspecting crew chief rolling if they could.
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Mighty. A pilot with wit like that could find the outside faired end of his relief tube turned 180 degrees as well. That could be a real knee slapper!
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Originally posted by Hornet33
I'm not some uptight supervisior. I get along with all my guys and like to have a good time as much as anyone. The one time I don't joke around is when the job has to get done. That guys actions were inappropriate on the flight line, while marshaling aircraft. If you are not professional enough to recognize that then I guess I would have to lump you in with the kids that think it's all a big joke.
Bah, looks to me like he was just goofing around and blowing off little steam.
Is it possible he knew the pilot fairly well and was just goofing on him?
There mere fact he was being filmed from that looks like the cockpit doing this would indicate so. At least in my mind.
I'd be willing to bet that 99.999 times out of 100 he goes about doing it in the proper way.
And when the watermelon is on the line. Such as a combat flight. He is probably deadly serious about his job 100% of the time.
And as far as I could see. The job did get done.
What I am seeing here is in indicator of a high morale leval. Which is every bit as important and sometimes moreso then pure professionalism.
Personally given the jobs of these guys I'd rather see them goofing around a bit and having fun with their jobs *on occasion* then being miserable and just going through the motions.
Unless this guy made a habit of doing this all the time I'd cut him some slack on this one. Or pretend I didnt see it.
There are times when comming down on someone in the name of professionalism can be more detrimental then meaningful.
IF something "had" to be said. I would say to him. Ok that was pretty funny that time. Just dont make a habit of it."
This creates a win/win situation between the supervisor and the worker while still getting the point across
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Somebody was filming from the cockpit. It was obviously setup.
Ya, some of you guys need to get a sense of humor. Really. You think thats the harshest sort of thing that service folks do? don't be naive.
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Heh, the way that guy was signalling you would think he was Navy
:D Seems to me the signals were good enough that the pilot understood the commands and was able to pull out without hitting anything.
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Originally posted by Hornet33
Actually I'm an insider. Been in the military since 1989. Seen combat in Desert Storm, been halfway around the world, and in my current job I have to deal with these kids everyday. You are right, that what they do is amazing considering their age and the hours they work, but a little professionalism goes a long way also. I'm not some uptight supervisior. I get along with all my guys and like to have a good time as much as anyone.
I don't believe I've ever met an uptight supervisor that knew he was an uptight supervisor.
Judging by your screenname I will guess you are a Navy guy. Thank you for your service.
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so what happened? Can't see it.. blocked.
Tumor
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Originally posted by Tumor
so what happened? Can't see it.. blocked.
Tumor
Right-click the "Download" button under the video window and play it on your media player.
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Actually ex Army now in the Coast Guard. Grew up as an Air Force bratt. Dad was a C-5 Galaxy Flight Engineer.
I also have a good relationship with the guys that work for me. We hang out after work and such (Monday night football at the local bar, BBQ's at everyones house's, birthday parties for everyones kids). We have a good time at work also when we are just hanging out in the shop. They also know that when it's time to get a job done, I want it done right and thats not the time to be screwing around.
I've been in or around the military my entire life (34 years) and there is a time and place for everything. While in uniform, that is when you need to have your game face on and be professional in everything you do. Thats my personal opinion and I know some will disagree with it. Thats fine. I mearly commented that if that guy worked for me I would be having a chat with him. I actually thought it was pretty funny, but like I said, not real professional. Hell I've had my guys do stuff like that before and I laughed my prettythang off at them. I also asked them to never do it again when other people outside our shop could see it. I get e-mails and feedback reports from all sorts of units that we support, and 99% of them always comment on how squared away my guys are when they come onboard to do work. That reflects directly on everyone who works here as a group. Makes my job real easy when it comes time to do evals for my guys. They always get high marks, because they do a great job.
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I've had some crewchiefs marshal me around the ramp in similiar fashion... It's all in good fun as long as they can remember to give the right signals and the crew doesn't run into anything. In the video, the kid did a pretty good job except that when the plane needed to turn left onto the taxiway, he was still signaling "straight".
Now if there is a painted line to follow and it's not in too tight of an area (as appeared to be the case in this video), that's allowable and common. Personally though, I prefer the crew chief to signal exactly where I'm supposed to go even when there's a line to help out, and as a result I've taxied right past guys who don't signal the turn into the parking spot, or straightened out early if the marshaler tells me to stop turning too early. But if there's ever a question, the right answer is to just stop and if necessary, plug the headset back in to discuss it. I've never taxied into anything so I guess I've been using a decent technique.
In any case, yea it's a bit unprofessional but it's also a deployed location and from experience (3 deployments to fairly remote bases in the persian gulf region) I know that as long as the chief keeps it under control, a little goofing is an excellent way to keep the place from really getting to you. Everyone has a different opinion and different squadrons need different leadership techniques though, so what's acceptable in one squadron may not be acceptable in another.
To follow up on Hornet's previous post...
Yea, it's easier to relax when your troops are sharp but as you say, your troops are a lot more likely to be sharp if the standards and expectations are high. Most military personnel, officers and enlisted alike, perform better when they are expected to excel and held to high standards. In a struggling squadron, you bet a goofball crewchief would get slapped for acting like that, and the aircrew would also likely get slapped for filming it. But in a squadron that's already at peak performance, in my experience it's not only acceptable but beneficial to loosen the reins a bit and let the guys have some fun on the job as long as safety and the mission are not negatively impacted.
IMHO.
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I had a discussion with a Chief about this exact same film. He said the exact same stuff. The problem these days with some of the supervisors is they can't distinguish between having fun and being safe and having fun and being dangerous. If you keep your hands around your troops necks day in and day out your bound to cause more problems by your actions.
People consistantly bring up being professional whenever your in uniform. If the troops know when to be on there best behaviour what's the problem? Hell as some have said I've seen first hand just how out of line some military members can get. The sad thing is I've seen much worse things out of our senior enlisted and officers. The only difference is they get away with alot of what they do. Meanwhile the younger airmen get hammered for something that was alot less damaging.
Keep choking the life out of your airmen and make them into the robots you want them to be. You'll never get anywhere by doing it.
Oh and if you think that video is bad look at the one about gold bond powder. Oh and none of these guys disguised themselves or anything. Guys with global access can find these folks easily. Just do a google search and you'll find it.
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Originally posted by Hornet33
Actually I'm an insider. Been in the military since 1989. Seen combat in Desert Storm, been halfway around the world, and in my current job I have to deal with these kids everyday. You are right, that what they do is amazing considering their age and the hours they work, but a little professionalism goes a long way also. I'm not some uptight supervisior. I get along with all my guys and like to have a good time as much as anyone. The one time I don't joke around is when the job has to get done. That guys actions were inappropriate on the flight line, while marshaling aircraft. If you are not professional enough to recognize that then I guess I would have to lump you in with the kids that think it's all a big joke.
But his Salute is nice!
Some of you obviosly havn't seen the "goldbond" commercial made by some officers a few years back.
EDIT: DOUGH! didn't read Cobra's last sentence....great minds!
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They are just having a little fun; every airman has done that before. It was dumb to get caught on tape though. As they say- “It’s legal as long as you don’t get caught.”
Those airmen will change after NCO school though. NCO school = for every a$s there is a broom, and after school everyone acts ‘stuck up’.
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I once knew a Marine plane capt. that went out to marshal in a few Harriers during night ops wearing nothing but safety boots, cranial, reflective belt, and light sticks. The entire squadron was still laughing about the incident months later.
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OK check this out. I showed this thread to my guys to get their opinion on it. My senior team leader pretty much agreed with me. The rest of the guys didn't want to say anything. I got some shrugs and a few Aw I don't know's. Then my third class petty officer who just got to the unit a couple of months ago tells me, and I'll quote him here. "Your a good supervisior but you tend to be a little uptight." WTF!!!! I'm only 34!!! I ended up having a little open forum meeting with my guys to talk about this whole thing, and I'll be damned if I haven't turned into a crusty old bastard. THAT SUCKS!!!!! I think I might have gotten to wrapped up with my responsibilities and forgot what it's like to be down in the trenches with the guys so to speak. Well I guess it just goes to show you that your never as smart as you think you are.
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Originally posted by Hornet33
OK check this out. I showed this thread to my guys to get their opinion on it. My senior team leader pretty much agreed with me. The rest of the guys didn't want to say anything. I got some shrugs and a few Aw I don't know's. Then my third class petty officer who just got to the unit a couple of months ago tells me, and I'll quote him here. "Your a good supervisior but you tend to be a little uptight." WTF!!!! I'm only 34!!! I ended up having a little open forum meeting with my guys to talk about this whole thing, and I'll be damned if I haven't turned into a crusty old bastard. THAT SUCKS!!!!! I think I might have gotten to wrapped up with my responsibilities and forgot what it's like to be down in the trenches with the guys so to speak. Well I guess it just goes to show you that your never as smart as you think you are.
Good stuff
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Hornet,
You're a better man than most to figure it out and discuss it.
When I catch myself being crotchety, I lean over, waggle my finger at the youngest person in the room, and wheeze "you damn kids..." That's usually enough to let my guys know that I realize I'm being an old fart, but I probably have a good reason. It seems to work... My guys get recognized for doing a good job and they don't seem to want to quit or transfer out of my office, and that's about all I could ever expect.
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Originally posted by Hornet33
OK check this out. I showed this thread to my guys to get their opinion on it. My senior team leader pretty much agreed with me. The rest of the guys didn't want to say anything. I got some shrugs and a few Aw I don't know's. Then my third class petty officer who just got to the unit a couple of months ago tells me, and I'll quote him here. "Your a good supervisior but you tend to be a little uptight." WTF!!!! I'm only 34!!! I ended up having a little open forum meeting with my guys to talk about this whole thing, and I'll be damned if I haven't turned into a crusty old bastard. THAT SUCKS!!!!! I think I might have gotten to wrapped up with my responsibilities and forgot what it's like to be down in the trenches with the guys so to speak. Well I guess it just goes to show you that your never as smart as you think you are.
There's still hope for ya Hornet. Having a open discussion with yer guys shows that yer not locked into the "crusty old bastard" routine yet =)