Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Aces High Bug Reports => Topic started by: Morpheus on December 05, 2005, 01:24:37 PM
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Speed vs flap deployment for 109E. These speed/flap deployment figures remained virtually unchanged for all 109 variants.
Flap deployment is currently modeled wrong in Aces High on all 109 variants from E through K.
(http://www.furballunderground.com/freehost/files/1/471_109_Flap_deploy_speeds.jpg)
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Since I am clueless on German language and the actual meaning of the chart.
But it would seem that the 109 could deploy flaps at over 400 kph, that is over 240 mph. ????
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Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
Since I am clueless on German language and the actual meaning of the chart.
But it would seem that the 109 could deploy flaps at over 400 kph, that is over 240 mph. ????
Looks to be about 25 degrees of flaps at 400 kph. That really isn't that much; probably between combat and takeoff settings.
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It is alot more than "really not much". And they go down at higher speeds than 240mph. The flaps in the 109 were lowered by the wheel in the cockpit (on the left beside the seat). The other wheel is for the stab trim. The flaps could be lowered to any angle. The flaps did not have a flap position called 'combat' like on the P-51. As can be seen in the graph, they could be lowered 10 deg @ 800kph. This is for the E but is applicable for the other models.
This is far different from what is currently modeled in Aces High.
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Originally posted by Morpheus
It is alot more than "really not much". And they go down at higher speeds than 240mph. The flaps in the 109 were lowered by the wheel in the cockpit (on the left beside the seat). The other wheel is for the stab trim. The flaps could be lowered to any angle. The flaps did not have a flap position called 'combat' like on the P-51. As can be seen in the graph, they could be lowered 10 deg @ 800kph. This is for the E but is applicable for the other models.
This is far different from what is currently modeled in Aces High.
10 degrees at 800kph (480 Mph) is a big thing.
Just as 25 degrees of flaps at 240mp would make a 109 turn with a SpitV.
Hell with 25 degrees of flaps, you may turn so fast you't shoot your own tail off. Would that be a kill shooter or what! :rofl :rofl
190s had better flaps than modeled in AH2 also.
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out turn a spitV? Hardly! Handy as heck? Definitely!
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Originally posted by Krusty
out turn a spitV? Hardly! Handy as heck? Definitely!
I believe that I said "turn with a Spit V". A bloody 109F4 can just about turn with a SpitV now.
HT took away the F4's guns, porked the front views, and seemed to have "corrected" the FM to make it turn a little poorer than the pre-patch 2.6. Give the F4 some flaps and it would really turn sweet.
The G2 would rock with flaps and so would the old G6 (the one that had guns). And imagine a G10 with 10 degrees of flaps at over 300 mph?
Even now the 2.6 version German pigs (meaning with the AH2 FM) might be worth flying with flaps.
I am back to the 190A8, the Dora, and of course the Spit16.
I have no preference for German iron. In fact, stating my personal opinion of the WW2 Luftwaffe would get my post banned for flame. Maybe HT shares my political views of the LW, but really there should be no bias in this day and age. Anyways, this is a game, I don't consider politics when chosing a ride, WW2 is over.
But it would be nice to be competative in something other than a Spit or La.
I would fly really like to fly American iron, especially the F4Us. But the AH2 50 cals aren't much more than pathetic pea shooters. And the only really decent guns package in an American ride is perked (C Hog). The Jugs are just well, Jugs. More like flying bricks really. The Pony is sweet, but I hate having to sit on a bogeys six for several seconds to eventually saw a wing off. And forget attacking a buff with 50s unless you like to die to get a kill.
The Main Arcade is a cannon arena no doubt.
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Maybe HT shares my political views of the LW, but really there should be no bias in this day and age.
I dont see any political bias. Rather a mistake in modeling. I am sure its not any deaper than that. So I really dont think anyone should dig any deaper.
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Wonder if he can also the model that as you are dropping flaps you cannot change the throttle.
Applies to all aircraft with manual flaps, hand used for throttle was the same hand used for flap control.
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Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
I would fly really like to fly American iron, especially the F4Us. But the AH2 50 cals aren't much more than pathetic pea shooters. And the only really decent guns package in an American ride is perked (C Hog). The Jugs are just well, Jugs. More like flying bricks really. The Pony is sweet, but I hate having to sit on a bogeys six for several seconds to eventually saw a wing off. And forget attacking a buff with 50s unless you like to die to get a kill.
The Main Arcade is a cannon arena no doubt.
ROFL, only if you let the others brain wash you into thinking that. I very much prefer the F4U-1 or the Fm-2 or the P47D11 , I find no trouble with the 50 cal guns. They are worth getting you 2 to 8 or 10 kills depending on your gunnery per sortie..........all be it you don't get ganged that is........
so many think, if I don't have cannons, I am gonna lose for sure , just isn't the case at all........ one lone F4U-1 with 6 50s can attack a grp ( count 3 ) Lancs or Ki-67's and saw them up with ease then still have enough ammo left over to go down 3 or 4 more other baddies......... trying to down a set of B-24s or B-26s is very much harder, but still doable, just got to use slashing attacks on them and stay fast.......
back on subject- only bf109 worth flying to me is the 109G2 and if you do anything remove the slats, I simply just hate them! 109s were much more fun before the slats got here!
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Speaking of cannons..... I dont miss them.
8 MGs are plenty. You just have to learn to be patient with your gunnery. The closer to convergence distance, the more devastating the effect.
I can shoot a wing off a Spit with 200 rds 303s, or kill a 110 with 300.
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Originally posted by TequilaChaser
ROFL, only if you let the others brain wash you into thinking that. I very much prefer the F4U-1 or the Fm-2 or the P47D11 , I find no trouble with the 50 cal guns. They are worth getting you 2 to 8 or 10 kills depending on your gunnery per sortie..........all be it you don't get ganged that is........
so many think, if I don't have cannons, I am gonna lose for sure , just isn't the case at all........ one lone F4U-1 with 6 50s can attack a grp ( count 3 ) Lancs or Ki-67's and saw them up with ease then still have enough ammo left over to go down 3 or 4 more other baddies......... trying to down a set of B-24s or B-26s is very much harder, but still doable, just got to use slashing attacks on them and stay fast.......
back on subject- only bf109 worth flying to me is the 109G2 and if you do anything remove the slats, I simply just hate them! 109s were much more fun before the slats got here!
I was on a 3 pack of JU-88s with a F4u-1, I bounced the one on the left, and sat on his tail for about 3 seconds of letting him have it. Lit him up like a christmas tree. He picked me off with his pea shooters, I hit the water, and he flew off smoking and missing a few parts. All guns were set to 400yards. This happened about a week ago.
Last night I took a F4U-1 up, and sat on the tail of an IL2 for about 2 seconds, and he went down.
And as for buffs, I put 4-5 hits from an Ostwind into a B24 the other night, and only got an assist. I think I filmed that one, not sure. I have hit buff with 3 hits lots of times and no smoke, no assist. 1 hit from and Ostwind does nothing to a buff, 2 hits maybe an assist if lucky 3 hits, maybe a kill. 4 hits likely a kill, 5 or more hits means he's doing a dive bomb on you and you will die after he does.
I have flown cannon planes ever since the ENY system took effect. I used to fly the PonyD. But not being able to fly the Pony most of the time, I felt it best to learn a plane that had a much lower ENY, yet had some killing potential. I settled on a 190A8 with 4 20mms. Nasty fire power, I was almost mesmerized the first couple of kills. Later I went to the 109F4, and G6. I learned to love the 30mm for killing buffs. No more sitting on the buffs tail as he ripped me apart. One slash, one kill, gotta love that :)
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got 2 B24s tonight with a P40E and got 2 more B24s with an F4U-1 and landed em both, was some fun :D oh yeah and a lancaster to boot....
I admit them cannons make easy work out of anything with just a few plinks, I don't find boom and zoom to fantastic and their maybe just a handful of people like Nath who can E-fight in a 109 or an FW...... most all others just boom and zoom with 4+K extending revs to try and get a HO, gets old....
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Wonder if he can also the model that as you are dropping flaps you cannot change the throttle.
Applies to all aircraft with manual flaps, hand used for throttle was the same hand used for flap control.
I think its comical how this was a non issue before the "Luftwhiners" got their way and got pyro to agree to finally fixing the planes. You crack me up kevin.
Also, this wouldnt mean snot as far as i am concerned. Chop throtle and in the blink of an eye start grabbing flaps. Whats so hard about that?
Keep trying harder though, its fun to watch you like this.
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Notice I said it 'applies to ALL manually deployed' aircraft.
It just hadn't occured to me earlier that as they were manually wound down the pilot had to use the hand normally used for the throttle.
Hardly the blink of an eye when it takes 30-40 secs to deploy full flaps, so I guess any part of that would be directly related in time.
Nobody has still come out with a definative the chart is showing TAS or IAS?
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Notice I said it 'applies to ALL manually deployed' aircraft.
It just hadn't occured to me earlier that as they were manually wound down the pilot had to use the hand normally used for the throttle.
Hardly the blink of an eye when it takes 30-40 secs to deploy full flaps, so I guess any part of that would be directly related in time.
Nobody has still come out with a definative the chart is showing TAS or IAS?
Think about what you are saying.
I dont know about you but when I want to get into flaps I chop throtle 100%. For that reason alone your little problem with how throtle and flaps should be changed will have no effect on me. So go ahead and change it.
It goes in order...
Cut throtle
Grab flaps.
Or
Keep turning with full power
Grab flaps.
So change what you want. It wont effect me.
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Kev,
All WWII aircraft would require the pilot to take his hand off the throttle at least briefly in order to lower the flaps.
Unless HTC is going to start modeling where the pilots hands are and what that allows the player to do at a given time then I think your request is silly and rather pointedly directed at the Bf109 and Luftwaffe fans.
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would that mean I would have to stop picking my nose while playing AH? as I would not be able to with the face mask on in RL ... :)
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yes eagler, this also means that from now on you must strap on your flight suit and of course chute along with everything else before you can take off.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Kev,
All WWII aircraft would require the pilot to take his hand off the throttle at least briefly in order to lower the flaps.
Indeed, P-38 pilots had the flap handle on the right side, meaning they had to switch hands on the yoke to lower flaps. On the other hand, F6F pilots had the flap switch switch within finger reach of the throttle and the manual over-ride close by. In fact, in the Hellcat nearly every control needed for flight and combat was adjacent to the throttle. P-47s had a similar set-up.
Some aircraft had better cockpit designs than others. Grumman aircraft, Republic P-47s and the 190s had the best cockpits. 109s, Spitfires and P-38s were among the worst with the rest in between in terms of location and access.
One cannot expect to HTC to model each cockpit as they existed in terms of layout. Instead, they designed the game so that no aircraft is at a disadvantage. This places the emphasis on flying instead of systems management.
My regards,
Widewing
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I agree that it would be cool to have flaps addressed - though I don't think it's neccessary to go to the extent of having the control location penalties modeled.
However, my personal priorities would put the Grumman birds first in line for an update. I believe both the Hellcat and Wildcat had flap systems that would, upon setting the flap control, deploy the flaps gradually as speed decreased - though by completely different mechanisms. I think the N1K might fall into this category as well - by yet another completely different mechanism.