Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: SEwinks on December 07, 2005, 10:53:27 AM
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Courious..................... In WW2 most dogfights occured between 8-10k..........now why is it that u can fly to 15-20k and your pilot won't blackout from freezing to death or lack of oxygen?????
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A rubberized oxygen mask was standard equipment. There also little units called cockpit heaters which pump warm air from under the cowling into the cockpit.
Ever see B-17 waist gunners wearing their oxygen masks? Ever see fighter pilots wearing those nifty masks which are not only designed to look cool...but be practical as well?
When it comes to the P-38 I remember reading it was notorious for giving pilots 'cold feet' and the P-51 had a reputation for being a bit toasty down at the rudder pedals. I don't know the history of the Janitrol heater but it would make sense to install one in a P-38. These little units just burn a small amount of fuel to produce heat...on the order of 0.25gph
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Yes, but even with oxygen masks, which had a very limited amount of O2, the heaters were ineffective, especially above 20k. When you get up to 30k+ in AH and can fly there until your gas runs out, it kills any realism.
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define a "very limited amount of O2"
I've seen the size of some of the oxygen bottles, and given their size and the lower pressures compared to the ones today I have a hard time believing that a pilot couldn't be on oxygen from engine start to shutdown.
I've got a portable oxygen system with cannulas that have more capacity than my bladder and any airplane that I fly's fuel supply. I can carry it around with one hand and it only weighs a few pounds.
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Originally posted by Krusty
Yes, but even with oxygen masks, which had a very limited amount of O2, the heaters were ineffective, especially above 20k. When you get up to 30k+ in AH and can fly there until your gas runs out, it kills any realism.
Erm, they carried enough oxogen for hours of flight while on oxogen. And the heater's effectiveness varried greatly from aircraft to aircraft. In single engine fighters with the pilot behind the engine it was, oddly, not hard at all to keep the pilot warm.
On the contrary, in my recent delving into Spitfire Mk VIII service I have read several accounts of how uncomfortable it was to be doing low altitude operations in South East Asia sitting right behind that Merlin 66. Apparently it put off a lot of heat.
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Originally posted by Krusty
When you get up to 30k+ in AH and can fly there until your gas runs out, it kills any realism.
Yeah, but there's a 3000000x factor of "boredism" when flying at 30k in AH. I think said boredism is a good substitute for "realism."
On a side note... you are aware that internal combustion engines produce heat regardless of the altitude, right? Something about explosions.... they get hot. :noid
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Originally posted by SEwinks
Courious.....................In WW2 most dogfights occured between 8-10k..........now why is it that u can fly to 15-20k and your pilot won't blackout from freezing to death or lack of oxygen?????
rofl, you serious?
planes were designed to fly high. the average engagement alt during the BoB was over 15000ft. in AH, we fly far too low, not the other way around lol. planes like the spit 14, with high alt engines were designed to have high alt engines because that's where they were flown.
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OK OK - I've connected my PC to my fan heater, so where's the Options menu for making the heater emulate the ones found in the planes? I'm freezing at 1k!!! :(
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Originally posted by Pooface
rofl, you serious?
planes were designed to fly high. the average engagement alt during the BoB was over 15000ft. in AH, we fly far too low, not the other way around lol. planes like the spit 14, with high alt engines were designed to have high alt engines because that's where they were flown.
That's exactly right, cruising altitude for fighters in WW2 was between 18-28k generally, that's where the fights occurred. Rarely did fights occur below 15k. Below 15k was the almost exclusive realm of ground attack planes.
Zazen
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Originally posted by Pooface
planes were designed to fly high. the average engagement alt during the BoB was over 15000ft.
Dont mix west and east fronts. At east front almost all fights was below 5km (~15000 feets). That is why most soviet fighters has their best perfomance at low alt.
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Originally posted by Oleg
Dont mix west and east fronts. At east front almost all fights was below 5km (~15000 feets). That is why most soviet fighters has their best perfomance at low alt.
Yea, that was largely due to the fact the primary purpose of the soviet air force was ground support and both air forces lacked the large high altitude level bombers the Brits and US had that required fighter escort and therefore drove fights higher.
Zazen
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biggest problem was condensation
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yeah
talking of high alt, any brits gonna watch space cadets tonight??
channel 4, 9pm, looks hilarious!!
for the people who are unfortunately unable to watch, they're basically taking a group of gullable people and telling them that they're going into space for 10 days, when infact they're sitting in a giant flight simulator
take a look!
space cadets site (http://www.channel4.com/entertainment/tv/microsites/S/spacecadets_prelaunch/)
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Originally posted by Golfer
When it comes to the P-38 I remember reading it was notorious for giving pilots 'cold feet'
P38 pilots often wore the same blue suits that the B17 gunners wore, they plugged into the aircraft electrical system and worked similar to a heating blanket.
It helped, but they still had issues with the cold and worse yet, the stiffness.
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Originally posted by Delirium
P38 pilots often wore the same blue suits that the B17 gunners wore, they plugged into the aircraft electrical system and worked similar to a heating blanket.
It helped, but they still had issues with the cold and worse yet, the stiffness.
High alt 38 gear, MTO style. 1st FG pilot in 44
(http://www.furballunderground.com/freehost/files/27/38Gear.jpg)
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the solution to P38 cold feet. USB heated slippers.
keep your feet warm while flying P38 in AH:
(http://www.gadgetspy.co.uk/wp-content/photos/usb_slippers.jpg)
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That's what I need! HTC genuine authentic P38 pilot furry slippers as used in WWII. :rofl
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Cold weather injuries were a fact of life in the 8th airforce. The p38 was a notoriosly cold plane. P38 pilots said that the only thing that the powder blue electric suits kept warm was their backsides. I've also read that 110 crews would get very hot at low altitudes from greenhouse affect. It's probably a safe bet that me110 crews froze their tulips off at times also. Aircrews took blankets with them. One b17 tail gunner told how he went forward to get more blankets and flak blew the tailgunner position away.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
High alt 38 gear, MTO style. 1st FG pilot in 44
(http://www.furballunderground.com/freehost/files/27/38Gear.jpg)
zomg!!1!! TYE FITER PILUT!
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Originally posted by Guppy35
High alt 38 gear, MTO style. 1st FG pilot in 44
(http://www.furballunderground.com/freehost/files/27/38Gear.jpg)
Taking bets: Which BK shows up to the AH conn dressed like this thinking it's 'ok' cuse the chicks will dig it??
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Rarely did fights occur below 15k. Below 15k was the almost exclusive realm of ground attack planes.
Zazen
From what I've read, most fights on the eastern front were below 15k. Germans sent out their 109's to pummel IL-2's, ruskies sent out there LaGG's and Yak's to shoot at the 109's that were pummeling the low-flying IL-2's :noid The western front, yeah, everything was up high.
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Originally posted by x0847Marine
Taking bets: Which BK shows up to the AH conn dressed like this thinking it's 'ok' cuse the chicks will dig it??
I'm not a BK, but I'd do it just to see what their reaction would be. That's a story in the making :aok
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Originally posted by SELECTOR
biggest problem was condensation
ah has super defrost :)
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You know the more of the finer details I learn about WWII Pilots, the more respect I have for them.....
Hey lets go some where, get shot at and freeze our arses off whilst doing it.....
Must take a hell of a man (or woman) to do that.....
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and before someone makes a smart arse remark....
think about how hard it must have been to keep you SA up with tht mask on
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I asked a 1st FG 38 driver about the cold in the 38. He said he'd take magazines and wrap them around his legs inside the pants to try and insulate against the cold. He was flying early model F,G, Hs in combat. My understanding is that they improved the cockpit heating in the later J and L.
A disadvantage of not having an engine roaring in front of the cockpit I guess
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(http://www.gunners.net/images/photos/gunners/gunswaist.JPG)
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Notes Of a B24 Nose Gunner (http://www.wf.net/~darilek/dar1.htm)
Mission #4
May 8-44
Plane N+ B-24-J
Brunswick, Germany !!
200 enemy pursuit planes. Heavy flak
P-47, P51, & P38 out numbered by Jerries.
52-100# incendiaries
2300 Gal.
5 Hrs 50 Min.
Lost twelve B-24,
Yarborough claimed F.W. 190
Graff pilot, first mission.
Pretty cold (35 deg.) below.
Pretty cold (35 deg.) below.
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(http://cosmicbovine.com/graphics/images_med/Waist%20Gunner.jpg)
(http://www3.sympatico.ca/windgate/images/B17-Gunner_3.jpg)
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Originally posted by x0847Marine
Taking bets: Which BK shows up to the AH conn dressed like this thinking it's 'ok' cuse the chicks will dig it??
All of em sept itll be more like this
(http://www.freewebs.com/linkafi/BKGear.bmp)
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You da king larry
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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$5 on morph