Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: RAIDER14 on December 11, 2005, 05:20:22 PM
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why don't any airlines in the U.S. have russian planes like Tupolevs or Anotovs?
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HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
This ought to be a good one!
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Not the same thing, but plenty of american pilots use Sukhois and Yakolevs as their aerobatic mount of choice.
The Sukhoi 26 (along with the 29 and the 31) are regarded as the best aerobatic planes in the world.
Daniel
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Originally posted by RAIDER14
why don't any airlines in the U.S. have russian planes like Tupolevs or Anotovs?
Well, there was this thing called "The Cold War" wherein the US and Western Powers were arayed against the Soviets and the East Bloc. During this time we each designed and built our own aircraft for both civilian and military purposes. Due to flaws in the Soviet economic and social systems the air liners they built are much more prone to catastrophic failures than those built in the USA or EU. These problems continue to dog the modern Russian aviation industry.
So, the reason we don't use Russian air liners is because they are crap compared to Boeing or Air Bus and we are rich enough to be able to afford the good stuff.
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Originally posted by Karnak
So, the reason we don't use Russian air liners is because they are crap compared to Boeing or Air Bus and we are rich enough to be able to afford the good stuff.
AEROFLOT is rich enough to use Boeing and AirBus as well.Thats what they use for international flights.
Due to flaws in the Soviet economic and social systems the air liners they built are much more prone to catastrophic failures than those built in the USA or EU
Not true,Tupolev and Antonov do not meet American emission standarts,thats all.
BTW Karnak Boeing drops from the sky more often then Tupolev.
Russian planes are crap:).....thats first time i hear that
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Because Antonov planes are too damn big.:p Seriously, I think it's because some corporate fat cats are still wary of the Russians, that the planes will be sabotaged or something. They buy Boeing because it's like buying an American made car, stimulates the U.S. economy (supposedly).
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It would be cool to see a FedEx or UPS or DHL Antonov 225 though
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a local FBO has a company flying cargo to the caribbean which utilizes AN12s and AN26s.
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A simpler explanation might be in order. ANT and TU probally does not have a parts / repair system distribution setup like they do in Europe and Asia established in the west.
You can have the planes in the U.S. But if you can't fix them at many places, well...stuff doesn't work out for the best.
Am I on the right path?
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hey raider, heres an eye opener for you.....go look around your house, apartment....whatever... and come back here and report on how many items were made in either the soviet union or russia. Apart from vodka.
Im betting the number is zero or close to it.
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Does a Cold War musuem count cuase there is lots of Soviet made stuff there:D
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Originally posted by ATA
AEROFLOT is rich enough to use Boeing and AirBus as well.Thats what they use for international flights.
Not true,Tupolev and Antonov do not meet American emission standarts,thats all.
BTW Karnak Boeing drops from the sky more often then Tupolev.
Russian planes are crap:).....thats first time i hear that
Airplanes have emission standards?
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Originally posted by Debonair
Airplanes have emission standards?
lol yeah:p
If you lived in the 60s and 70s you'll notice 707s and DC-9 taking off at the airport belches out black smoke. Yuck!
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Originally posted by Debonair
Airplanes have emission standards?
I dunno about emission standards, but certainly noise standards. 707's got tanked by everyone except the military because they couldn't be hushed.
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Old 135s would break windows all the time in the residential neighborhoods around MKE. Always glad I was a few miles north of the glide path. :)
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Originally posted by nirvana
Because Antonov planes are too damn big.:p Seriously, I think it's because some corporate fat cats are still wary of the Russians, that the planes will be sabotaged or something. They buy Boeing because it's like buying an American made car, stimulates the U.S. economy (supposedly).
Hmm, I may be wrong, but some Western cargo companies use An-124 Ruslans, but it may be just an off-shore firm that got the planes here in 1992 for a price of several VCRs.
Ruslans are used on cargo charters since 80s, for example, Pink Floyd used two An-124s during their 1987-88 tour.
Antonov isn't a Russian design bureau, it's Ukrainian.
As for noise standards - IMHO now it's nothing more then another dirty competition trick. For example: since Euros banned most of the Soviet-made planes for noise issues - RF is expected to ban most of the Airbus production for not meeting Russian safety standards: they have only two engines. The only problem is that modern Tu-204 also has two engines ;)
When I lived in Leningrad - our windows were looking at Pulkovo runways, I could see planes taking off and landing, it wasn't as noisy as my flat in Moscow with windows looking at the highway.
As for reliability - Soviet standards were quite high. There were some ****-ups like An-10, but generally they are at least as reliable as Boeings or Airbus, especially if they get some maintenance. Some planes are extraordinarly reliable, for example: only two IL-86 ever lost, one was on ferry from Msk to SPb with drunk crew without passengers, and another one was completely destroyed in New Delhi airport - a 737 felt on it. :D
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Dunno. I've been on the tarmac when those russian birds taxi in. Those things are unholy loud. I mean, adrenaline runs up and down your spine. You hear them well before you see them: "What the hell is that coming?", and these are big jets.
The reason you don't see more of them in the US is much like the reason you don't see many DC-8s, 707s and 727s (or L-1011s and DC-10s, for that matter): they're old, fuel-inefficient and loud. They can still make money in those parts of the business that don't require them to be flying all the time (charter, freight), but for your "line business" of moving passengers around with thin profit margins, you need something a little newer.
Boroda is right though: Russian aviation engineering, especially during the cold war era, is a thing of beauty. Hell, I'm betting the MEL for some of those birds only includes one wing!
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Originally posted by Boroda
As for noise standards - IMHO now it's nothing more then another dirty competition trick. For example: since Euros banned most of the Soviet-made planes for noise issues - RF is expected to ban most of the Airbus production for not meeting Russian safety standards: they have only two engines. The only problem is that modern Tu-204 also has two engines ;)
Really? It has forced other manufacturers to invest in quieter technology too.
Whats unfair in that?
Ex-eastern block manufacturers just didn't care to also do so and are now crying and blaming others for their mistake?
...and what about the fuel economy? those things are literally SMOKING fuel!
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I know of a few outfits based in the UK that use AN-124's, and there is an AN-124 that flies into Moffett field for NASA / JPL up in Sunnyvale on a monthly basis. Has a unique sound and gets me outside everytime.
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Originally posted by Yeager
hey raider, heres an eye opener for you.....go look around your house, apartment....whatever... and come back here and report on how many items were made in either the soviet union or russia. Apart from vodka.
Im betting the number is zero or close to it.
Funny thing that houses in USA are actualy unsafe.Considering amount of hurrycanes in US every house should be made of bricks/stone.
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Considering you know nothing about the topic ATA, why do you comment on it?
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Originally posted by ATA
Funny thing that houses in USA are actualy unsafe.Considering amount of hurrycanes in US every house should be made of bricks/stone.
the Dade County and Florida Building code is the most stringent in the world. even our fences can withstand more wind force the the rest of the world's domestic structures. our homes, when built to the current code can withstand a Cat5 storm. my house which was built in 1958 didn't even suffer roof tile damage in any hurricanes since it's construction. the roof is still original. the only damage suffered by homes here is when they are impacted by wind driven debris or falling trees. the rest of the country is slowly revising their building codes to Dade County code standard.
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Originally posted by ATA
Funny thing that houses in USA are actualy unsafe.Considering amount of hurrycanes in US every house should be made of bricks/stone.
PFFFFT since when do they get hurricanes in Russia, ATA?:lol I could blow down those chalets with an air horn. American houses are uber strong, not to mention sexy. Don't even get me started on trailer parks....
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Originally posted by Yeager
hey raider, heres an eye opener for you.....go look around your house, apartment....whatever... and come back here and report on how many items were made in either the soviet union or russia. Apart from vodka.
Im betting the number is zero or close to it.
As a matter of fact I have several Russian made foot pedals for my guitar. It turns out Soviet electronics geeks got very good at copying American (western) electronic design during the Cold War when it was next to impossible to get authentic gear there. After the colapse of their military/industrial complex in the early nineties and capitalism began to take hold a few of those factories were converted to make consumer/musical electronics. As many of you know the Soviets were very good at making reliable vacuum tubes and the vacuum tube is a major key to getting a really good tone from an electric guitar. Russian made Sovtech tubes are in A LOT of US made music gear today. On top of music gear the Russians have gotten into the car stereo market too. A lot of the low end aftermarket car stereos are manufactured in Russia.
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Originally posted by storch
a local FBO has a company flying cargo to the caribbean which utilizes AN12s and AN26s.
DHL flies AN-12s, AN-26s and IL-76s as well as a few beat up 727s in and out of here.
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Not to mention the english language.
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It's my second you now,how many do you speak?
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Not many, only 5, two fluently. I can order food in the other 3 though. :D
I only made the crack because seriously, I didn't understand a single thing in the preceeding message. The flaw may be on my side, I just didn't get it.
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Well most likely it was my fault.So what are they,may i ask?
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English and german, followed in descending order by Spanish, then (don't laugh) Esperanto, and then pidgin Japanese. In normal conversation, I'd say I speak 3 languages, but you got my feathers up with your snarkiness. :D
I know, I know, you're from Europe and speak 10 languages, and us simple US folks are the butt of jokes.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Well, there was this thing called "The Cold War" ....
I got that far before I spit my milk all over my plate. Thanks man.:D
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Originally posted by Chairboy
English and german, followed in descending order by Spanish, then (don't laugh) Esperanto, and then pidgin Japanese. In normal conversation, I'd say I speak 3 languages, but you got my feathers up with your snarkiness. :D
I know, I know, you're from Europe and speak 10 languages, and us simple US folks are the butt of jokes.
Nah,russian,english(broken:)),armenian....and slovack languages are almost the same.
I'd say i speak only two:)