Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Mugzeee on December 11, 2005, 10:10:41 PM
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The Pony is SkatSr, he kills me shortly after this sequence because a pesky Zero that had been climbing to our fight got me too distracted when he started slinging rounds at me. That coupled with the fact that the Pony was still flying when he should have lost his wing or even blew up from his wing tank taking several 20MM rounds from an LA7, was enough for me to say !@#$ IT! I simply relaxed the Stick and took it in the SIX! LOL
ScatSr lands 11 kills after this fight...I asked him if he got damage...he reported that he lost his right gear.
If i ever quit AH...this would be the type of reason why.
Make no mistake about it. Skatsr is a FAR better pilot than i. He deserved the kill in this fight and im glad he got to land 11 kills after this nail biter.
wtg Skat.
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Mugz, put the film up, if you can. I'm a bit surprised he didn't lose anything important.
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Wings are overrated anyway MugZ.
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Looks like three rounds are fired and one misses. Only see 2 sprites. I've never taken a wing off with 2x20mm hits. Blasting 110s in a Yak-9T can't be beat though. :D
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Originally posted by OOZ662
Looks like three rounds are fired and one misses. Only see 2 sprites. I've never taken a wing off with 2x20mm hits. Blasting 110s in a Yak-9T can't be beat though. :D
His count goes from 400 to 390, that seems like 10 rounds to me. What is funny is that it doesn't count down from frame to frame even though mugz is shooting the entire time. :confused:
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Im guessing he was passing you fairly fast (from a Hurricane point of view ;) ). Considering rate of fire and muzzle speed of your cannon the 'space' between the bullets is quite large. Add to that the targets speed and the high angle at wich you were firing: You probably had only one or two hits on different places. Not enough to take the wing off a Pony......
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I usually notice that my pony doesn't usually go down after those kinds of snapshots - only 110's can manage to bring down planes with snapshots like that. Remember that the 20mm fires fairly slowly. i'm not surprised that nothing happened. The only thing messed up about this incident is that sr lost his gear, but we all know that the damage model is not very reliable.
sr, wtg.
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I've taken down countless ponies with one scissoring snapshot in LA7. Usually 2-3 cannon hits to the wingroot is enough to break their wing off.
IMO that bird should have gone down. But that's not the only weird thing happening in MA nowadays. As stated in the whi.. err wishlist the changes in code smoothing and/or something else have brought down the level of stability in gameplay. The time before the ISP switch and the time after it have been plagued with network related problems.
After the switch there hasn't been a day that I don't lose UDP.
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I understand the problem with the damage and all that...thats not my question...
My question is, why would someone post screenies of themselves actually flying the L-gay7?:D
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Indeed, besides the gear, there aren't any vital parts in that part of the wing, the rounds would probably have gone clean trough (or just impacted in the wing) without doing more damage than only the right gear.
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True, theres been lots of Discoes, 'dissappearing planes', clear-hits-no-damage, one-ping-dead-wonders and the like lately. Is it the "smoothing" code? Maybe. But i bet HTC is already looking into it and plotting on a fix.
Mersu, im not sure (i never fly LA) but could it maybe be a convergence issue? Maybe you pinged that Pony at convergence (ie concentrated those 2-3 hits) while the ones MugZ scored were a bit spread out? I think that would be enough difference to account for wing to stay on or go off.
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From the looks of those screen shots he did not deserve to land 11 kills after those strikes...
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I'm seeing 3-4 20mm hits, wing should have fallen off! They hit the same general area so the damage should have weakened the wing to the point where it could not sustain the weight of the plane.
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I see one hit just in front of the flap. This would be called a snap shot. With the rate of fire of the LA cannons, and the speed of the P51, he was lucky to have one round hit.
I am not positive, but I believe the structural part of the wing is a bit more forward on the wing. But this is a game, and the magic spot was not hit :) Looks like the P51 driver was lucky, but by no way is this a for sure kill shot. A better shot would have been a tracking shot behind the P51. Tracking shots have a better chance of getting more then one cannon rounds into the target.
When you go for the snap shot, you give up angles. This is called an overshoot. If you miss, you just gave your enemy a opportunity to get a better shot at you. It looks like this P51 driver took advantage of it :)
Find a good trainer. They can show you why this happens, and how to set up for a better shot.
Gunner
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Originally posted by GunnerCAF
I see one hit just in front of the flap. This would be called a snap shot. With the rate of fire of the LA cannons, and the speed of the P51, he was lucky to have one round hit.
I am not positive, but I believe the structural part of the wing is a bit more forward on the wing. But this is a game, and the magic spot was not hit :) Looks like the P51 driver was lucky, but by no way is this a for sure kill shot. A better shot would have been a tracking shot behind the P51. Tracking shots have a better chance of getting more then one cannon rounds into the target.
When you go for the snap shot, you give up angles. This is called an overshoot. If you miss, you just gave your enemy a opportunity to get a better shot at you. It looks like this P51 driver took advantage of it :)
Find a good trainer. They can show you why this happens, and how to set up for a better shot.
Gunner
Well I don't think Mugzeee had much of a choise whether to go for this snapshot or not. Look at his speed, he seems to have just recovered from a loop (or hefty climb) and just saw the P-51 racing below him and saw the oportunity to land a few shots.
Not sure if Mugzee could've actually tracked the P-51, since it seems the P-51 suddenly appeared in his gunsight.
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lol La7.
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Rubber bullets maybe?
Still waiting for an answer from HT about my film. Would be interesting to hear about it.
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Originally posted by Naytch
I usually notice that my pony doesn't usually go down after those kinds of snapshots - only 110's can manage to bring down planes with snapshots like that. Remember that the 20mm fires fairly slowly. i'm not surprised that nothing happened. The only thing messed up about this incident is that sr lost his gear, but we all know that the damage model is not very reliable.
sr, wtg.
Really? Ive taken down ponies really quickly with my 38. Taken 51s down with a quick burst of only 10-15 mg rounds which is about 4-5 cannon rounds. Yea the 38 guns are more concentrated but just thought I would mention it.
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Originally posted by Naytch
I usually notice that my pony doesn't usually go down after those kinds of snapshots - only 110's can manage to bring down planes with snapshots like that. Remember that the 20mm fires fairly slowly. i'm not surprised that nothing happened. The only thing messed up about this incident is that sr lost his gear, but we all know that the damage model is not very reliable.
sr, wtg.
There is clearly more than just 1 or 2 hits to that wing. There are enough hits that it should have taken the wing off of the pony. Your statement about deflection shots is very far fetched Naytch. That is how I make my living in the MA and its not with a 110.
Btw, can you please post the film MugZ. Id like to see it from the 51's pov in exterior view slowed down.
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Originally posted by frank3
Indeed, besides the gear, there aren't any vital parts in that part of the wing, the rounds would probably have gone clean trough (or just impacted in the wing) without doing more damage than only the right gear.
Where are the wing fuel cells?
I would have thought 2x 20mm rounds placed at the wing root at D50 or so would take the wing off?
Originally posted by frank3
Well I don't think Mugzeee had much of a choise whether to go for this snapshot or not. Look at his speed, he seems to have just recovered from a loop (or hefty climb) and just saw the P-51 racing below him and saw the oportunity to land a few shots.
Not sure if Mugzee could've actually tracked the P-51, since it seems the P-51 suddenly appeared in his gunsight.
Couldnt be more off base frank.
I was a dogfight gone from high E to near stall for both AC. I kept taking high risk passes he pinged me several times at high angle deflections. I was trying to get the pony slower under me so i could roll over and drop on him...as he glided onder me. It worked, cept the killin part. :D
Originally posted by Schatzi
Im guessing he was passing you fairly fast (from a Hurricane point of view ;) ). Considering rate of fire and muzzle speed of your cannon the 'space' between the bullets is quite large. Add to that the targets speed and the high angle at wich you were firing: You probably had only one or two hits on different places. Not enough to take the wing off a Pony......
We were pretty slow by this time. 140, 130 roughly.
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Thats BULLSH**
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Originally posted by viper215
Thats BULLSH**
Called lagg pfft
Rubber bullets
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I count 2 hits. What about everyone else?
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
I count 2 hits. What about everyone else?
2
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there are 3.
2 in almost the same spot on the leading edge of the wing...and one just in front of the Aileron.
I guess that's why your are the "LeserSailor"? ;)
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as much as i understand your complaint mugzeee, how grudam boring would this game be if there was a exact set amount of damage stating that*3* 20mm hits=wing off.
AH2 is a little bit random when it comes to damage, and think its all the better for it.
can't we chalk this kind of thing up to a small bit of 'virtual luck'?
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Originally posted by frank3
Well I don't think Mugzeee had much of a choise whether to go for this snapshot or not. Look at his speed, he seems to have just recovered from a loop (or hefty climb) and just saw the P-51 racing below him and saw the oportunity to land a few shots.
Not sure if Mugzee could've actually tracked the P-51, since it seems the P-51 suddenly appeared in his gunsight.
I don't doubt the setup. I have taken many shots like this myself. If I saw a P51 like this in front of my LA, you can bet I would be clamped on the trigger :)
What I see is an out-of-plane snapshot with cannons. These kinds of shots do not always bring down the bad guys.
I see what could be 3 or 4 hits from the last screen shots.
Gunner
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Just counted again on both angles and I still see only 2 hits.
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Originally posted by Schatzi
Im guessing he was passing you fairly fast (from a Hurricane point of view ;) ). Considering rate of fire and muzzle speed of your cannon the 'space' between the bullets is quite large. Add to that the targets speed and the high angle at wich you were firing: You probably had only one or two hits on different places. Not enough to take the wing off a Pony......
They arent going that fast. Look at MuGzeee's speed, and notice the Pony's flaps are out. He is almost point blank on him from a 90 degree angle. 2-3 cannon shots is more than enough to take the wing off a Pony in the situation.
OOZ662
Looks like three rounds are fired and one misses. Only see 2 sprites. I've never taken a wing off with 2x20mm hits. Blasting 110s in a Yak-9T can't be beat though.
[/B]
If you've never done it you will. Its not that rare.
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you're all missing the point im certain.
we dont realise what a random game AH2 can be........and how lucky that makes us.
the alternative is something like the *Quake syndrome* in games.
the quake syndrome basically states that X hits with a shotgun to the chest is going to kill X bad guy every single time.
Aces High offers us something more on life's terms.
there is such a thing as lady luck even in cyber space.
if the fellow had 11 kills to land these screen shots are obvious proof of luck in action.
looks to me like there is a big arse hole just above the flap on the right wing, also. this is a glich but an obvious sign that the right gear was shot right out.
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I don't see enough detail in any of the screenshots to allow anyone, especially those who are not experts in aircraft construction, and the P-51 in particular, to verify with any certainty that one or more of those shots was a direct hit on the spar or the joint between the spar and the root.
To me, it looks like one or two big hit sprites, and I see one hole in the wing, looks to be behind the spar and the guns. That won't necessarily take off the wing.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
I don't see enough detail in any of the screenshots to allow anyone, especially those who are not experts in aircraft construction, and the P-51 in particular, to verify with any certainty that one or more of those shots was a direct hit on the spar or the joint between the spar and the root.
To me, it looks like one or two big hit sprites, and I see one hole in the wing, looks to be behind the spar and the guns. That won't necessarily take off the wing.
You are correct about the trailing edge shot just in front of the flap.
There was also 2 hits on the leading edge of the wing in close succesion that looked to be between the leading edge and the wing Spar. (The Flim revealed this) But after i went to look at the film and found that i had 653 film files!!!...i cylced through and took the screen shots and deleted all the films. LOL...i didnt realize i had so many films..:eek:
One of the hits by itself shouldnt do much damage (Im guessing) of course, same as the rest of you. But all 3 hits i felt shoulda done enough damage so that when the Pony pulled a few G's in his next turn i woulda ripped off his right wing, and i would had been the "Lucky" one ;).
I doesnt matter much. ...it was a nail biter fun fight all the same.
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TIP::dont fly la7
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Lady luck must not like me very much, 'cause I lose wings in an F4U after 1-2 hits from .50 cal.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
I don't see enough detail in any of the screenshots to allow anyone, especially those who are not experts in aircraft construction, and the P-51 in particular, to verify with any certainty that one or more of those shots was a direct hit on the spar or the joint between the spar and the root.
To me, it looks like one or two big hit sprites, and I see one hole in the wing, looks to be behind the spar and the guns. That won't necessarily take off the wing.
when i think about it that hole is too big for AH.
it is in fact the tyre on the right gear morphing through the wing as it get shot off.
i agree that to say this should definitely always be a kill is out of the question, and part of what makes the game good imo.
"Lady luck must not like me very much, 'cause I lose wings in an F4U after 1-2 hits from .50 cal."
come on now, no one loses a wing to 2-3 50cal hits, thats just exageration.
but with regard to lady luck, you need to charm her, she doesnt come for free.
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Originally posted by yayyyy
TIP::dont fly la7
yayyyy:p :p :p :p :p :p
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Originally posted by Mugzeee
You are correct about the trailing edge shot just in front of the flap.
There was also 2 hits on the leading edge of the wing in close succesion that looked to be between the leading edge and the wing Spar. (The Flim revealed this) But after i went to look at the film and found that i had 653 film files!!!...i cylced through and took the screen shots and deleted all the films. LOL...i didnt realize i had so many films..:eek:
One of the hits by itself shouldnt do much damage (Im guessing) of course, same as the rest of you. But all 3 hits i felt shoulda done enough damage so that when the Pony pulled a few G's in his next turn i woulda ripped off his right wing, and i would had been the "Lucky" one ;).
I doesnt matter much. ...it was a nail biter fun fight all the same.
I think I was pretty close by, I remember you asking about the damage. There were some good fights there.
Do you have any shots that show actual damage other than the the one hole near the back of the wing? Yes, I see what appear to be hit sprites and/or cannon shell burst(s?), but I don't see conclusibe proof of more than one, and possibly two, solid hits. Further, the only damage I can ACTUALLY SEE from the screenshots is the one large hole. I seem to remember Dale or someone saying the hitsprites you see are not always indicative of actual hits, and the same may or may not apply to cannon shell bursts. It may also be that what everyone is seeing is one cannon shell burst lasting more than a couple of frames.
I understand your frustration, I've had similar things happen to me as well.
Congratulations on having the honor and integrity to show such class and sportsmanship, it speaks volumes about you.
<>
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No joke, man. Frequently all I hear is *ping* *RIP*
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does anyone know if speed stress and G stress makes a difference to damage taken?
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Can you please post the Film? Just looking at flashes from that angle doesn't work. You have to look at the plane frome more angles. Sometimes flashes are hidden behind other flashes.
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its official, this thread is a pice of S***
How long are you here ? 3 years and you whine like 13 years old n00b
your damage was lost in lag/warp/bad ping, choose whatever you like
everythiing you see on your screen is not 100% same as in other person PC
but since 2003 you should learn that
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Originally posted by yayyyy
TIP::dont fly la7
Tip #2: Fly the Pony
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Morph, I saw your spit film where you had a brilliant ping on a 109's wingtip and brought him down. That was awesome, but it's not the case here. The hit was in the wingroot; it should be pretty sturdy there - its both wider in surface area, and thicker at the same time so two or three 20mm's will never do it.
If he hit the wingtip - yes, if the elevator thingies - yes, and definitely it would result in pilot kill if he hit the cockpit. I agree there should have been flap loss, and if the damage model would allow, that wing should have made straight flight impossible. However, that's beside the point - point is that thing had a very small chance of being a kill shot.
Morph - remember that snapshot you had on the wingroot of the jug in your spit film - didn't go down yet, did he? Same case, but even though the jug is definitely sturdier than the pony, we're only talking of three hits.
P.S. Come to think of it - even flap loss is improbable since the flap was deployed, thus giving the shell an unclean hit.
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3x20mm hits concentrated in the wingroot (400rds means a 3 cannons La-7, right?) not enuff to damage seriously a WW2 fighter plane? If you live in the "Alice In The Wonderland" arena described by Ramzey, where everything is possible, then yes. If you'd like to make the MA a thing even remotely realated to WW2 air fighting then its a big HMMMMMM.
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Originally posted by gatt
3x20mm hits concentrated in the wingroot (400rds means a 3 cannons La-7, right?) not enuff to damage seriously a WW2 fighter plane? If you live in the "Alice In The Wonderland" arena described by Ramzey, where everything is possible, then yes. If you'd like to make the MA a thing even remotely realated to WW2 air fighting then its a big HMMMMMM.
Look at the screenshots one more time, you call those concentrated? Skatsr was moving perpendicular to Mugzee. One cannon hit the foremost part of the wing (where the guns are poking out), then the middle, then the back part where the flaps are. The result will be a wing with three big holes in it. Now if mugzee could have gotten his wings parallel to sr and got a bit of a track shot on it, the rounds would have been more concentrated and the wing would have most probably been blown to bits.
Lets say you had an m60. Someone off to the side threw a 2x4 in your line of fire at high speed. You fired a burst when it crossed your gunsights WITHOUT moving the gun to the side at all. When you look what happened to the 2x4, you should notice that the holes will be peppered from the one end to the other, not enough to rip the thing in half, was it?
It would only have killed the pony if he raked it from the prop to tail, but he wasn't so fortunate. Still, Sr's losing of right gear speaks bad of the damage model, should be fixed...
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Originally posted by ramzey
its official, this thread is a pice of S***
How long are you here ? 3 years and you whine like 13 years old n00b
your damage was lost in lag/warp/bad ping, choose whatever you like
everythiing you see on your screen is not 100% same as in other person PC
but since 2003 you should learn that
It is official..you are a trouble maker. There is no excessive whining on my part. Just a posting of pictures and explaination as to what the pictures are representitive of. So please dont be so imflamatory in your remarks.
13 yr old.
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Originally posted by gatt
3x20mm hits concentrated in the wingroot (400rds means a 3 cannons La-7, right?) not enuff to damage seriously a WW2 fighter plane? If you live in the "Alice In The Wonderland" arena described by Ramzey, where everything is possible, then yes. If you'd like to make the MA a thing even remotely realated to WW2 air fighting then its a big HMMMMMM.
i think the only big HMMMM come when people think there should be a set ammount of pings that brings a wing off every time.
i've been hit by no more than 4 rounds of hispanio cannon and lost wings, tails, engine oil, whatever.
I've also been hit by well over 20 cannon rounds and scraped out of it with nothing more than 20 holes in my plane.
this is how the game is, how real life is, and how it should remain.
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Originally posted by mechanic
i think the only big HMMMM come when people think there should be a set ammount of pings that brings a wing off every time.
i've been hit by no more than 4 rounds of hispanio cannon and lost wings, tails, engine oil, whatever.
I've also been hit by well over 20 cannon rounds and scraped out of it with nothing more than 20 holes in my plane.
this is how the game is, how real life is, and how it should remain.
Stuff happens. 90% of the time the Ponys wing will come off in the situation, MuGzee got the short end of the stick that round.
MuGzeee wrote:
There is no excessive whining on my part.
Yeah, I dont get where you became a whineass in this. How dare you post something for discussion!!!:D
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don't worry, there is always 1 who doesnt bother reading past the title and spouts off anti-whine rubbish before they think. :aok
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Originally posted by mechanic
i think the only big HMMMM come when people think there should be a set ammount of pings that brings a wing off every time.
I simply said that 3x20mm cannon hits on a wing should produce more damage. The fact that the *gear* was damaged is the demonstration of the weird DM. Like those horizontal stabs damaged as a result of HO's. I'm sure you know.
This is how the game is, how real life is, and how it should remain
You are mixing: a) our fantasy world with b) your opinion and ... c) your opinion again.
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Originally posted by mechanic
i think the only big HMMMM come when people think there should be a set ammount of pings that brings a wing off every time.
i've been hit by no more than 4 rounds of hispanio cannon and lost wings, tails, engine oil, whatever.
wow 4 rounds your lucky Iv been killed many many times with one ping kills by stupid spit 20mms. Yet I get a Chog and pop a pony 8-9 times and finally he dies on the last ping.
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Originally posted by mechanic
does anyone know if speed stress and G stress makes a difference to damage taken?
It should!
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Originally posted by Shaky
I understand the problem with the damage and all that...thats not my question...
My question is, why would someone post screenies of themselves actually flying the L-gay7?:D
Hehe, yep, that's the REALLY important question.
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Yes i was a frustrating experience. One of many. As i stated before. It was a fun fight.
The post was as much about a Question as it was a complaint.
I just assumed that the Hit explosions would have been plenty to do the job.
No big deal. I just took the time to post pics this time. Im glad i did...it re-enforced what i always have known about online gaming. Expect the un-expected. I have told several disgruntled AH pilots in the past "The fun is the fight, not the end result" But i was serious when i said in my original post "If i ever quit AH...this would be the type of reason why." not that i think AH is the only online game that this happens in...but rather it may become more than i care to tolerate someday. Thanks for all the input. It helps sometime to get other views to get back on even keel.
:)
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See the last 4 posts in this (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1891715#post1891715) thread.
Chances are you didn't actually hit him those 2 or 3 times that you can see on the screenshots.
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Wil...thanks. This is very helpful.
:)