Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: eagl on December 12, 2005, 03:18:39 PM

Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: eagl on December 12, 2005, 03:18:39 PM
CNN is reporting no clemency for Tookie.

I'm actually a bit suprised.  I'd have given 60/40 odds that Schwartzewhatever...   er Ahnold, being in a bit of a political slump, would figure out a way to grant clemency and come out looking like a popular hero.  He could have made a gazillion political points...  But he didn't.  He apparently took the time to weigh the case on it's merits and chose to go with the court's decision.

I'm simultaneously happy that he had the moral courage to make what is probably going to be an extremely controversial decision, and bummed out that his administration is going to suffer further crippling problems for no reason other than he acted like a governor.  Had he bent just one bit towards the other way and gone for the popular points, I think he'd have been a winner in the political arena.  He could have called a huge press conference, and spent 10 minutes scolding the radicals who have been trying to blackmail him into making the decision one way or another.  He could have claimed the moral high ground and left them in suspense, hanging on his words, wondering if Tookie would live or die.  And at the climax of suspense, he'd grant someone a life.

He'd have been a hero.

But he went the other way, spent the weekend thinking about it, and chose to support the decision of the courts.  His comment on the decision appears to be along the lines of "the details of the case do not warrant clemency", pretty dry stuff for a struggling politician.
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: GtoRA2 on December 12, 2005, 03:27:09 PM
I had a feeling it would go this way.

The guy needs to fry.

This will prolly help him with the conservitives come election time.


I am just glad it won't be a news story much longer.
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: BigGun on December 12, 2005, 03:29:51 PM
i don't think going the other way would have been popular. They were reporting today that 70% of Californians favor the death penalty. This case clearly fits the bill.
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: Maverick on December 12, 2005, 05:07:22 PM
Atta boy Arnold.

AMF tookie.
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: Gh0stFT on December 12, 2005, 05:25:49 PM
i know its the wrong thread, but why kill him after 25 years in prison ?
I doubt the Deterrence and the Death Penalty works this way,...
you payed him the daily meat for 25 years, others who didnt done
anything bad to someone died because of hunger in the same country.
For me this is just a ****** TV Show.
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: lasersailor184 on December 12, 2005, 05:27:06 PM
Arnold was only elected as a knee jerk reaction to Davis.  Davis was a foaming at the mouth commie, and people wanted to distance themselves from this just because they were still realing the effects of communism in California.

However note that Arnold is NOT a republican.  Arnold is a straight moderate.  Just compared to all the pinkos in California he damn near looks libertarian.



There was nothing in the world that would have won Arnold re-election aside from swearing himself into the Socialist party.  Most of the people are too far gone in California.

The people are quickly shifting to the left again.  The only way Arnold would have stayed popular was by going with the shift.
Title: Re: No clemency for tookie
Post by: midnight Target on December 12, 2005, 05:30:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by eagl
CNN is reporting no clemency for Tookie.

  He could have made a gazillion political points...  .


Hardly...

The "Save Tookie" contingent in California is a small minority. He did the best thing for himself politically. He may have done it for the right reasons morally, but it was still in his best interest to fry the guy.
Title: Re: Re: No clemency for tookie
Post by: Gunslinger on December 12, 2005, 05:37:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
Hardly...

The "Save Tookie" contingent in California is a small minority. He did the best thing for himself politically. He may have done it for the right reasons morally, but it was still in his best interest to fry the guy.


I don't think you can downplay the opposition as such.  Especially considering alot of them are celebrities:

Snoop Dogg, Bianca Jagger, Jesse Jackson, Margaret Cho, Mike Farrell, Jason Alexander, Laurence Fishburne, Danny Glover, Anjelica Huston, Bonnie Raitt, Tim Robbins, Susan Sarandon, and Noah Wyle.

There there's that whole Nobel Peace Prize (http://www.jewishworldreview.com/michelle/malkin112200.asp) nomination.  

But this just goes to show how out of touch some of the Hollywood left is because I don't think the majority of Californians oppose his execution.
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: midnight Target on December 12, 2005, 05:44:58 PM
That was a lot of words just to say you agree with me....
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: Gunslinger on December 12, 2005, 05:49:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
That was a lot of words just to say you agree with me....


Yea...and?;)
Title: Re: Re: Re: No clemency for tookie
Post by: Habu on December 12, 2005, 06:20:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
I don't think you can downplay the opposition as such.  Especially considering alot of them are celebrities:

Snoop Dogg, Bianca Jagger, Jesse Jackson, Margaret Cho, Mike Farrell, Jason Alexander, Laurence Fishburne, Danny Glover, Anjelica Huston, Bonnie Raitt, Tim Robbins, Susan Sarandon, and Noah Wyle.


You know when you start to mention people like Bianca Jagger Mike Farrell Jason Alexander et al I would hardly be inclined to use the word celebrity.

Has beens. Washed up actors. D-list nobodys. But not celebrities.
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: ROC on December 12, 2005, 06:24:11 PM
Nobel Peace Nomination?

You do realize that I can nominate You, and you would then have the label of a Nobel Peace Nominee don't you?

It really is that simple.  Try it.  Who gives a flying fudge about getting nominated, it means Nothing.  Win the Nobel Peace Prize and let's talk about Tookie's gift to humanity.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: No clemency for tookie
Post by: Gunslinger on December 12, 2005, 06:44:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Habu
You know when you start to mention people like Bianca Jagger Mike Farrell Jason Alexander et al I would hardly be inclined to use the word celebrity.

Has beens. Washed up actors. D-list nobodys. But not celebrities.


But alas the list ins't just exlusive to those

Quote
Originally posted by ROC
Nobel Peace Nomination?

You do realize that I can nominate You, and you would then have the label of a Nobel Peace Nominee don't you?

It really is that simple. Try it. Who gives a flying fudge about getting nominated, it means Nothing. Win the Nobel Peace Prize and let's talk about Tookie's gift to humanity.


Do you think I'm supporting Tookie?  If so I'm not, I'm pointing out the nutbags that do.
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: Ripsnort on December 12, 2005, 07:22:25 PM
(http://learn.jtsa.edu/topics/kids/together/tubshevat/pg23.jpg)


^^^
Tookies and cream. Good eating! Baked, not fried!
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: RAIDER14 on December 12, 2005, 07:57:04 PM
will there be riots all over the country when he is pronounced dead
:noid
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: Gunslinger on December 12, 2005, 08:01:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by RAIDER14
will there be riots all over the country when he is pronounced dead
:noid


hope not, there's no excuse for them.  IMHO the guys is scum, a convicted murderer and no kind of role model what so ever.
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: Eagler on December 12, 2005, 09:32:15 PM
where's ole sparky when you need it?
(http://www.dc.state.fl.us/oth/timeline/images/1900/electric_chair2.jpg)
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: Reschke on December 12, 2005, 10:05:52 PM
Guns you mentioned 3 people right there that made me realize again why no one was going to consider clemency for this person...Susan Sarandon, Tim Robbins and last..ah but not..ah cetainleeee not least..ah the right REVEREND JESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEE JACKSONNNNNNNNNNNN!

Just think if they let Jesse walk him into the chamber...I know its not gonna happen but just imagine how much crap would hit the fan if they mistakenly locked Jesse in there with him...Boy you think the Rodney King riots were bad!
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: Reschke on December 12, 2005, 10:07:50 PM
Why would there be riots. Just because one man decided what he did was wrong and now even 25 years later he is finally paying his debt to society. Personally I think we shouldn't wait that long and I think we need to go back to old fashioned public hangings.
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: RightF00T on December 12, 2005, 10:39:51 PM
I despise that Jesse Jackson is behind everyone that is black.  Not everyone is innocent and under oppression.  The fact that he supports anything with a dark tone of melanin, makes he and any cause he supports a joke.
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: Saurdaukar on December 12, 2005, 10:43:53 PM
See Rule #5
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: RAIDER14 on December 12, 2005, 11:17:21 PM
I wonder what he is doing right now and what will his last words be?
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: montag on December 12, 2005, 11:47:22 PM
no pardon for murderers.
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: midnight Target on December 12, 2005, 11:47:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Saurdaukar
See Rule #5


In-freaking-credible
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: ROC on December 12, 2005, 11:50:47 PM
Not at all thinking you supported clemency, simply making a point of how idiotic the whole Nobel Peace Prize nomination badge has become.

Of all the lame excuses.  Some anti death penalty professor nominates him 6 times and the guy must be ok afterall.  Stuns me that people fall for this stuff.


Quote
Less than two weeks ago Williams was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize for the sixth straight year, by a philosophy professor at Notre Dame de Namur University in Belmont who opposes the death penalty
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: montag on December 12, 2005, 11:52:44 PM
he might be a hero if he didnt kill all those people.
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: Saurdaukar on December 12, 2005, 11:53:14 PM
See Rule #5
Title: Re: Re: Re: No clemency for tookie
Post by: Holden McGroin on December 13, 2005, 12:29:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
There there's that whole Nobel Peace Prize (http://www.jewishworldreview.com/michelle/malkin112200.asp) nomination.


Is that the award that Yasser Arafat won but Mahatma Ghandi didn't?

They have an interesting measure of peace.  I'm surprised Tookie didn't win it.
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: Gunslinger on December 13, 2005, 01:17:36 AM
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
In-freaking-credible


I thought it was pretty funny ;)
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: Russian on December 13, 2005, 01:23:13 AM
40 min left?
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: NUKE on December 13, 2005, 01:43:17 AM
18 minutes until Tookie, the Nobel prize nominated author and inspirational man of peace and love is put down.
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: Russian on December 13, 2005, 01:59:25 AM
- 1
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: Russian on December 13, 2005, 02:02:49 AM
Needle’s Poke and Tookie is no mo.
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: NUKE on December 13, 2005, 02:37:07 AM
Tookie has been in hell for about 36 minutes, just an eternity to go.
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: Rotax447 on December 13, 2005, 03:50:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Gh0stFT
i know its the wrong thread, but why kill him after 25 years in prison ?
I doubt the Deterrence and the Death Penalty works this way,...
you payed him the daily meat for 25 years, others who didnt done
anything bad to someone died because of hunger in the same country.
For me this is just a ****** TV Show.


I am married to German citizen, so I understand just how deep the misunderstanding is in Europe over how we Americans think and act.  We realize that the death penalty does not deter crime; certainly not twenty-five years after the fact.  A concealed .38 revolver tucked under your armpit ... that deters crime.

Tookie was not put to death for deterrence.  He was put to death for retribution.   Eighty-four percent of us attend religious services every week.  That is a much higher number than anywhere in Europe.  We believe in God; we believe in the sanctity of human life.   Tookie Williams took four human lives.  Lives that had hopes, dreams, joy, and sorrow. Lives that those people had a right to live.   He took those lives under what we Americans consider "Special Circumstances"  i.e. in a particularly callous or heinous way.  This is why we put him to death.  Retribution, not deterrence or revenge

Of course, in Germany you would be paying for his room and board for the next twenty-five years, but that is another story .


-Rotax447
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: bj229r on December 13, 2005, 06:17:46 AM
Apparently only black guys and women are unjustly executed....have you EVER heard of a protest similar to this for anyone else?


Quote
Williams' statements did not sway some relatives of his victims, including Lora Owens, Albert Owens' stepmother. In the days before his death, she was among the outspoken advocates who argued the execution should go forward.

"(Williams) chose to shoot Albert in the back twice. He didn't do anything to deserve it. He begged for his life," she said during a recent interview. "He shot him not once, but twice in the back. ... I believe Williams needs to get the punishment he was given when he was tried and sentenced."

Williams was condemned in 1981 for gunning down convenience store clerk Albert Owens, 26, at a 7-Eleven in Whittier and killing Yen-I Yang, 76, Tsai-Shai Chen Yang, 63, and the couple's daughter Yu-Chin Yang Lin, 43, at the Los Angeles motel they owned. Williams claimed he was innocent.

Witnesses at the trial said he boasted about the killings, stating "You should have heard the way he sounded when I shot him." Williams then made a growling noise and laughed for five to six minutes, according to the transcript that the governor referenced in his denial of clemency



Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: lazs2 on December 13, 2005, 08:34:40 AM
maybe if someone would open a nike store here we could have some good riots.

lazs
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: Masherbrum on December 13, 2005, 08:59:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Gh0stFT
i know its the wrong thread, but why kill him after 25 years in prison ?
I doubt the Deterrence and the Death Penalty works this way,...
you payed him the daily meat for 25 years, others who didnt done
anything bad to someone died because of hunger in the same country.
For me this is just a ****** TV Show.


HE murdered four people.  He was trying to say "that someone else shot the fourth, and it wasn't him."  If this is true, what he fails to realize is that he is just as guilty as the person who "might" have shot that person.  

Karaya
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: straffo on December 13, 2005, 09:49:10 AM
not to defend tookie as I never heard of him but this :
Quote
Williams then made a growling noise and laughed for five to six minutes, according to the transcript that the governor referenced in his denial of clemency


is strange ... do you have ever really  laughed during 5 minutes ?
It's a pain !
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: Dead Man Flying on December 13, 2005, 09:58:17 AM
The mad, maniacal cackling always does the badguys in.  Will supervillains never learn?

-- Todd/Leviathn
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: Sandman on December 13, 2005, 10:30:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
Arnold was only elected as a knee jerk reaction to Davis.  Davis was a foaming at the mouth commie, and people wanted to distance themselves from this just because they were still realing the effects of communism in California.

However note that Arnold is NOT a republican.  Arnold is a straight moderate.  Just compared to all the pinkos in California he damn near looks libertarian.



There was nothing in the world that would have won Arnold re-election aside from swearing himself into the Socialist party.  Most of the people are too far gone in California.

The people are quickly shifting to the left again.  The only way Arnold would have stayed popular was by going with the shift.


(http://seafoodhaccp.cornell.edu/Images/bobber.gif)
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: lasersailor184 on December 13, 2005, 11:51:38 AM
A picture of a floater doesn't count as a reply.

Are you going to counter anything I said?  Or am I just going to assume you agree with me?
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: midnight Target on December 13, 2005, 12:28:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
A picture of a floater doesn't count as a reply.

Are you going to counter anything I said?  Or am I just going to assume you agree with me?


Here's a counter..



you are wrong.
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: Eagler on December 13, 2005, 12:38:27 PM
the whole "I am sorry" thing is way over-rated

so if he seemed to be sad, sorry enough, Arnold would have pardoned him? what a crock
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: Russian on December 13, 2005, 12:49:46 PM
Anyone know what his final word was?
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: Sandman on December 13, 2005, 12:55:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
Here's a counter..



you are wrong.


Works for me. :aok
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: StarOfAfrica2 on December 13, 2005, 01:10:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
maybe if someone would open a nike store here we could have some good riots.

lazs


Dunno, we have a Nike store here and .......... no riots.
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: RightF00T on December 13, 2005, 01:41:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Russian
Anyone know what his final word was?


"So long, and thanks for the fish."
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: lazs2 on December 13, 2005, 02:27:49 PM
still...  it does seem unfair that the blue areas get all the good riots.

lazs
Title: No clemency for tookie
Post by: RAIDER14 on December 13, 2005, 02:33:11 PM
Quote
So long, and thanks for the fish


CNN.com said he did not have any last words