Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Maverick on December 13, 2005, 09:24:24 AM
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Are the Aussies haveing problems similar to what happened in France? I hope not as it can't be a good thing at all.
BTW how are things doing in France now? I haven't seen or heard of much of anything going on there.
Link to Aussie story.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051213/ap_on_re_au_an/australia_racial_unrest;_ylt=ArmINynvbbQhv2jZBbvwXY.s0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b2NibDltBHNlYwM3MTY-
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Originally posted by Maverick
Are the Aussies haveing problems similar to what happened in France? I hope not as it can't be a good thing at all.
BTW how are things doing in France now? I haven't seen or heard of much of anything going on there.
Link to Aussie story.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051213/ap_on_re_au_an/australia_racial_unrest;_ylt=ArmINynvbbQhv2jZBbvwXY.s0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b2NibDltBHNlYwM3MTY-
I would have expected "expert, firsthand accounts" by Gixer by now.
Karaya
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Originally posted by Maverick
Are the Aussies haveing problems similar to what happened in France? I hope not as it can't be a good thing at all.
BTW how are things doing in France now? I haven't seen or heard of much of anything going on there.
Link to Aussie story.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051213/ap_on_re_au_an/australia_racial_unrest;_ylt=ArmINynvbbQhv2jZBbvwXY.s0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b2NibDltBHNlYwM3MTY-
All is back to the previous situation ... which lead to another similar event sooner or later
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I don't believe the aussies will have a problem. funny anecdote about aussies. back in the late 80's and early 90's rental vehicles in Florida were issued tags that end in the letter Z. the wily thugs dwelling in the "opportunity" neighborhoods would take advantage of tourists that would occassionally wander off of the expressways and get lost in those areas as they were easily targeted. many German tourists were tragically murdered in this fashion. we provided (and still provide) perimeter security and access controls services to many business in these areas of town. one day we were programming a new access control system at a section 8 apt bldg located on NW 46th st and NW 27th Ave when we hear a big commotion and alot of yelling. a car passes by and in a distinct aussie accent a man is scolding and beating the crap out of an area citizen that was 1/2 way into the car with his legs pointed skywards and flayling about. there were two aussie couples in the car. the thugs broke their door window and reached in to steal the ladie's handbag the guy that reached in was captured by the intrepid aussies. the driver hit the gas the other man reached over to thug and held him, all four were pounding on him. a passing cop saw the commotion and rescued the thug from the irate tourists and the thug looked much worse for the wear. the tv helicopter news crews were on site quickly and the incident made the 6 o'clock news. it was hilariously funny. wtg aussies.
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Originally posted by storch
many German tourists were tragically murdered in this fashion.
Really?
How many is "many"?
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Originally posted by Toad
Really?
How many is "many"?
you could google it but I'm guessing around 5 in a bunch of incidents. it was rampant for a while.
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they were attacking tourists because the criminals know tourists don't carry guns, it stopped when the state got rid of the rental tags and rental bumper stickers. so now the crooks don't know who has a gun. (Florida is a right to carry state)
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Originally posted by storch
you could google it but I'm guessing around 5 in a bunch of incidents. it was rampant for a while.
FWIW I remember a number of similar incidents involving British tourists in or around the same timeframe.
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Yes I remember too. They were targeting rental cars near the airport. I think their idea was that the tourists had a pocket full of cash and no weapon.
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Originally posted by Momus--
FWIW I remember a number of similar incidents involving British tourists in or around the same timeframe.
yup a total of nine tourists were killed in the timeframe 5 being German. these incidents all occurred when the poor folks exited the expressways heading to the the beaches into very bad urban areas. the problem was solved by placing signs with symbols of the blazing sun indicating the correct routes to take.
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Well, I'm confused then.
You're saying nine total is "many"?
I realize one is too "many", especially if you are the "one".
But nine total out of the roughly 80 million tourists from around the world that visit Florida each year (lately) doesn't sound like "many" or "rampant".
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As a side note, 10-12 people have simply disappeared from cruise ships in the last 18 months. This out of roughly 15 million cruise passengers.
Would you consider this a "rampant" problem in the cruise industry?
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I'm sure if you ask their family members they might disagree. let me see, you are saying that because the number is statistically insignificant it less of a tragedy?
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Sad but true.
Apparently the young Middle Eatern males and the young Anglo Saxon males of Sydney's eastern suburbs have rather differant opinions and are both willing to stand up for what they believe.
Who woulda thunk it eh? friction between two vastly differing cultures living in the same city, have to be a world first allmost.
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Originally posted by storch
I'm sure if you ask their family members they might disagree. let me see, you are saying that because the number is statistically insignificant it less of a tragedy?
Stalin said "one death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic"
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I recall those viscious murders of friendly people visiting the country.
Imo, people who murder other people for no lawful reason (ie self defense against criminal intent) should be led to the "bye-bye room" and be quietly disposed of. Just like Tookie....maybe even miss the vein a few times....just for dramatic effect.
Once a killer is dead he can no longer kill. That works for me.
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Hi All,
Article in the Scotsman attempting to explain the roots of the recent riots.
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Attacks 'linked to Sydney riots'
Attacks linked to two nights of race rioting in Sydney have been reported in two other Australian cities, but an uneasy calm has returned to the streets of Sydney.
As night fell, hundreds of police converged on the beachside suburb of Cronulla and stopped and searched dozens of cars.
But there were no arrests reported and no repeat of the previous night's rampage in which dozens of cars full of young men of Middle Eastern appearance smashed store windows and cars in apparent retaliation for a race riot on Sunday in which 5,000 white men chanted racial slurs and attacked youths they believed were of Lebanese descent.
Lebanese community leader Keysar Trad criticised the violence, which was triggered when men who were reportedly Lebanese allegedly beat up two volunteer surf lifesavers.
"We have always condemned the ... violence or anti-social behaviour on the beaches or anywhere else," Trad told television's Channel Nine.
He later held talks with members of a surf gang called the Bra Boys in Maroubra, one of the beach suburbs hit by violence, and said they were an example of how Australians of different ethnic groups can mix at Sydney's beaches.
"They expressed their outrage at what happened at Cronulla and they expressed their support and appreciation for the Middle Eastern community," Trad said. "They have many friends who are from a Lebanese and Middle Eastern background and of various religions, so they want peace."
Anger toward groups of young Lebanese men in Sydney that erupted on Sunday has been simmering for years, particularly since a horrific gang rape case in 2002.
At a trial in Sydney, prosecutors and witnesses said members of a Lebanese gang hurled racial abuse at their rape victims, all of whom were white. The ring leader, Bilal Skaf, was sentenced to 55 years, an unusually severe sentence in Australia.
"The rapes have had a significant impact in terms of race relations in Sydney," said Professor Chris Culleen, director of the Institute of Criminology at Sydney University.
© Copyright Press Association Ltd 2005, All Rights Reserved.
This article: http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2401582005
Last updated: 13-Dec-05 18:00 GMT
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The Bra Boys are a bunch of thugs, don't let anyone tell you differently. They aren't an all white gang either: there are a lot of Maoris and Islanders as well.
The basic problem is that the Police haven't been able to stop the formation and activities of the various gangs: in the inner west of Syndey these tend be Middle Eastern and/or Meditteranean/Southern European whereas on the beaches they are Northern European, Maori and Islander. Cronulla is a nice beach that is easy to reach from the inner west. For some time now there has been problems between these gangs, it was only a matter of time before it erupted into open warfare.
And before someone puts too much emphasis on the religous elements most Lebanese in Sydney are Maronite Christians (and they are well represented in the various gangs).
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While 9 deaths doesn't seem like a large number, the real question is how many robberies happened where someone wasn't killed just beat up and robbed? I remember when this was on the news. They esstimated that only about 60-70% of actual cases where even reported to the police. I have a couple of friends that were stationed down there during that time and they tell me it was pretty bad.
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Originally posted by Hornet33
While 9 deaths doesn't seem like a large number, the real question is how many robberies happened where someone wasn't killed just beat up and robbed? I remember when this was on the news. They esstimated that only about 60-70% of actual cases where even reported to the police. I have a couple of friends that were stationed down there during that time and they tell me it was pretty bad.
ya the rapes, carjackings and robberies generally went unreported in the news. it was pretty bad for the tourists until the tags were less conspicuous. they tend not to mess around too much with us locals. if they do they generally get the wood put to'm right quick and the police don't generally investigate real thoroughly in those instances, unless it's a fatality and then a media and local clergy driven witch hunt generally ensues. kinda like that lionel tate apprentice thug who murdered a female playmate as kid with a wrestling move while his mother was passed out in the house. he was released from prison upon turning 18. the first thing he does is hold up a pizza deliveryman and then after being almost let off scott free for that goes on to commit another strong arm recently. no more preachers and ladies in funny hats on tv being outraged by the injustice this time though. the aussies seem to have that issue in australia under control i suspect it will be nothing like what happened in france.
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Originally posted by storch
let me see, you are saying that because the number is statistically insignificant it less of a tragedy?
Not at all. I'm questioning your use of the words "many" and "rampant" in describing the incidents.
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Originally posted by john9001
they were attacking tourists because the criminals know tourists don't carry guns, (Florida is a right to carry state)
They were attacking rental vehicles because they knew that many (but not all) were driven by foreign tourists who would be carrying large sums of cash, credit cards and other monetary instruments, plus expensive electronic goods such as cameras. How would they know that the driver of the rental car was not an American businessman with a gun? If it's not permissible to take guns on flights, even in checked luggage, that would explain it...
I have driven rental cars with big orange rental car signs on them, all around Spain - never got shot at once.
BTW - how many people were SHOT in the recent riots in Australia?
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Originally posted by beet1e
BTW - how many people were SHOT in the recent riots in Australia?
Not enough, that is why they continue more than one night. Rioters should be fair targets. Same with looters in my book. :D
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Originally posted by Dago
Not enough, that is why they continue more than one night. Rioters should be fair targets. Same with looters in my book. :D
he doesn't get it. if that were to occur here the rioting would remain exclusively in the "opportunity" neighborhood where they originate. in Miami there is nothing left for them to burn in those areas. during the 1980 arthur mcduffie riots they burned down the few important places of employment in their community and none have been rebuilt or will be rebuilt. there aren't even any major chain supermarkets in those areas. the rioting was contained to those areas exclusively by the people whose homes abutted those areas. at that time I live immediately across the tracks from a pretty bad neighborhood. at the height of the rioting many of the residents in my neighborhood were out in the front of their houses shotguns at the ready ala second hand lions. none of those rioters ever even came within 200 yards of the tracks, they knew. the only white fatalities were an elderly couple dragged from their car and beaten to death and their car set on fire. all the other fatalities were black on black and from within that community. just like in N.O. and L.A. they looted, but only from each other. of course the pinheads in the media attempted to make much more of it than it was. It may have even made the national news I don't recall if it did.
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Storch you can use this :
(http://www.festo.com/INetDomino/files/enter_key.jpg)
please ?
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we never have any good riots around here.
lazs
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*Anymore
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Nope... never. I guess I need to move to a blue area to really get the full benifiet of socialism.
lazs
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Originally posted by Pei
The Bra Boys are a bunch of thugs, don't let anyone tell you differently. They aren't an all white gang either: there are a lot of Maoris and Islanders as well.
The basic problem is that the Police haven't been able to stop the formation and activities of the various gangs: in the inner west of Syndey these tend be Middle Eastern and/or Meditteranean/Southern European whereas on the beaches they are Northern European, Maori and Islander. Cronulla is a nice beach that is easy to reach from the inner west. For some time now there has been problems between these gangs, it was only a matter of time before it erupted into open warfare.
And before someone puts too much emphasis on the religous elements most Lebanese in Sydney are Maronite Christians (and they are well represented in the various gangs).
It's a good thing that the Aussie Govt. took away all of the firearms. Imagine the chaos of those who perished might have been able to save their lives.
Karaya
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call me selfish but... when a bunch of thugs are rioting in my neighborhood... I want to be armed.
lazs
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I thought you did live in a blue area...
Anyway, my town has wierd ideas about when to riot. We are a huge football town, so you assume that we would riot like crazy after good games. But we don't.
The two largest riots to ever hit Penn State occurred during two Seperate Arts Fests over the summer.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
It's a good thing that the Aussie Govt. took away all of the firearms. Imagine the chaos of those who perished might have been able to save their lives.
And how many DID perish ???
:aok
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Apparently we're not getting the whole story of "Down Under" in the news recently:
Muslim Gang Rapes and the Aussie Riots
By Sharon Lapkin
December 15, 2005
In Australia this week amidst anger over an Islamic man’s rape conviction and the bashing of two Aussie life savers, working-class locals erupted in a rampage of anger and brawling in some of the worst racial riots in decades. But there is more to the story than is being repeated in the American mainstream media....
Four days after he set foot in Australia, the rape spree began. And during his sexual assault trial in a New South Wales courtroom, the Pakistani man began to berate one of his tearful 14-year-old victims because she had the temerity to shake her head at his testimony.
But she had every reason to express her disgust. After taking an oath on the Qur’an, the man – known only as MSK – told the court he had committed four attacks on girls as young as 13 because they had no right to say “no.” They were not covering their face or wearing a headscarf, and therefore, the rapist proclaimed: “I’m not doing anything wrong.”
MSK is already serving a 22-year jail term for leading his three younger brothers in a gang rape of two other young Sydney girls in 2002. In his own defence, he argued that his cultural background, was responsible for his crimes.
And he is right.
In some parts of Pakistan, sexual assault – including gang rape – is officially sanctified as a legitimate form of enforcing the social value system.
One village council recently ordered that five young girls should be “abducted, raped or murdered” for refusing to be treated as chattel. The girls were aged between six and thirteen when they were married without their knowledge, to pay a family debt.
And when Mukhtar Mai’s 12-year-old brother was alleged to have committed an offence in a small Pakistani farming village, the village council ordered that his sister be gang-raped. So, she was taken to a hut where four men repeatedly assaulted her.
According to the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan there were 804 cases of such officially orchestrated sexual assault in 2000, and 434 of these were gang rapes. And if that isn’t bad enough, the victims of these atrocities are then expected to commit suicide because rape victims bring irreparable shame upon their family.
So as MSK committed his acts of rape while visiting Australia, he was simply perpetuating his own cultural heritage. He hails from a society where officially sanctioned sexual violence is commonly employed as a means to enforce the subservience of women.
And this is where two fundamental tenets of the modern Left clash: the irresistible force of cultural relativism collides with the immovable object of gender equality. But in the 21st century it is the latter that must prevail.
The laissez faire attitudes of cultural relativism are unacceptable in modern society. Female genital mutilation is not some quaint tribal custom that we are bound to respect: it is barbarism, pure and simple.
Yet many Western leftists habitually excuse these crimes against women in order to maintain political solidarity with their allies in the Islamic world. After all, it would be tough to make common cause with Muslim groups in the antiwar movement if Progressives began to criticize the practice of polygamy.
But along with Islamic immigration to the West have come Third World value systems regarding the treatment of women. We must not be seduced by the false tenets of cultural relativism into a toleration of forced marriages, officially sanctioned rape, and honour killings.
Australia’s unique brand of multiculturalism confers both rights and obligations: while cultural and linguistic diversity are to be cherished, every Australian must subscribe to a single standard of human rights. Australians must forcefully repudiate the corruption of the multicultural idea that would condone crimes against women and support jihadism.
The dangers of cultural relativism became evident Down Under last weekend when long-festering ethnic tensions erupted into violence at Cronulla Beach near Sydney. The trouble began when a group of Middle Eastern men were assaulted by mobs of angry locals. The local Member of Parliament, Bruce Baird MP, claimed the public outcry was revenge for the Bali bombings and September 11.
But Baird also explained that a series of high profile rapes in the area had spurred locals on and that a group of Middle Eastern men had attacked two Aussie lifesavers the previous weekend. Locals claimed to the media after the riots that they were sick of Lebanese Muslim gangs calling their daughters and wives names, and throwing cigarette butts at them.
Then neo-Nazis showed up in a transparent attempt to exploit local ethnic tensions for their own benefit. But mainstream Australians expressed their frustration with both the violence inflicted by Middle Eastern men, and the equally violent effort by white racists to exploit it.
While rejecting the tenets of neo-Nazism, working-class Aussies who live near Cronulla Beach were saying they’ve had enough of this culturally motivated crime wave in a wave of violence that is also unacceptable. The race riots in suburban Sydney represented a clash between two polar opposites of white supremacy and Islamic male supremacy. But the average Australian seeks a midpoint between these equally vile extremes in which fairness and a single standard of law will apply to all.
Source (http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=20535)
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The posting by Ripsnort is pretty much on the money. It all stems from, IMHO, that Australia being a "reasonably" relaxed society lets people do their own thing. The trouble is certain groups, see it as a weakness, not just inside Australia, but from outside too.
Having been living outside the country for the best part of 15 years, its easy to be out of touch. But some of my relatives teach school in the suburbs of Sydney and their biggest complaint is the Lebanese children. lazy ill disciplined and no respect to the teachers, particularly females, I dont know the other parts of the world, but in Australia, u can be lazy and ill disciplined, but if you show respect, life is ok. From my school days, these were the only group the brought (horror) knives to the school ground.
Very Sad to see.
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Originally posted by FTJR
The posting by Ripsnort is pretty much on the money. It all stems from, IMHO, that Australia being a "reasonably" relaxed society lets people do their own thing. The trouble is certain groups, see it as a weakness, not just inside Australia, but from outside too.
Having been living outside the country for the best part of 15 years, its easy to be out of touch. But some of my relatives teach school in the suburbs of Sydney and their biggest complaint is the Lebanese children. lazy ill disciplined and no respect to the teachers, particularly females, I dont know the other parts of the world, but in Australia, u can be lazy and ill disciplined, but if you show respect, life is ok. From my school days, these were the only group the brought (horror) knives to the school ground.
Very Sad to see.
I'm not sure of the history of the "Welfare state" in Aussie land, but I do know that welfare states in this country brought forth more lazinessness from the receivers of welfare than those that actually used it as a tool to get back on their feet. Considering my homeless background when I began life as an adult, I can safely say that I think reaching out to help someone is okay, as long as there is a term limit as to how long that "hand out" is available. I never received any hand outs, and would have refused them anyway due to my stubborn nature. When someone knows that funds are limited, it tends to motivate them to seek climbing the latter out of the gutter.
Regarding my situation, if I've learned anything, I've learned that I do appreciate everything I've earned in life, although I do tend to like to show folks what I've earned, due to the nature of being poor at one time in my life.
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western civilizations have a "culture" of putting rapists in prison, we must defend our culture.
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Im afraid Rip, that Australia was very much a welfare state, at least until a few years ago, and someone who is more current can provide the details on that. It is changing but at a slow rate. And I do agree that many just use it to stay out of the workforce.
However to the current problem, and I see they are putting around 1500 police onto the beaches this weekend, as I said in previous post there are groups who think they can do what they like, whenever they like. Unfortunately the Neo Nazi's are taking the opportunity to inflame the situation, and the Lebanese are only too happy to oblige.
The only solution is more police more police power.. more laws and the country moves closer to a police state.
p.s. Of course we could... deport/shoot/jail them all, but that wouldn't be PC.
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Originally posted by Bluedog
Sad but true.
Apparently the young Middle Eatern males and the young Anglo Saxon males of Sydney's eastern suburbs have rather differant opinions and are both willing to stand up for what they believe.
Who woulda thunk it eh? friction between two vastly differing cultures living in the same city, have to be a world first allmost.
Seems that Talk < Hate > Radio is partialy to blame...
CLAIMS that Sydney's race violence has been stoked by talkback radio were reinforced today when a radio announcer was forced to apologise for on-air comments about Lebanese Australians.
Macquarie Radio station 2GB's late night announcer in Sydney, Brian Wilshire, had accused some Lebanese of being inbred.
"Many of them have parents who are first cousins whose parents were first cousins," he told listeners to his 9pm-midnight show.
"The result of this is inbreeding – the result of which is uneducationable (sic) people...and very low IQ."
Wilshire's comments were greeted by outrage in Sydney, where thousands of police are preparing to mount road blocks this weekend to prevent a repeat of the race riot at Cronulla beach.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/...
Someone here once said that free speech has it's consequences, guess that's true down under also.