Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Creton on December 13, 2005, 10:21:49 AM
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I've been outta game for awhile,but I recently started playing offline some.I thought I'd give the Lightening a try ,I've read some of your previous post but I cant find them on the BBS to re-read them, and have a couple of questions.
1. Does the 38 performe better with or witout combat trim? (PLEASE ELABORATE ON YOUR ANSWER)
2. Is it possible to setup a duel throttle to control engines seperately?(I find that decreasing engine RPM on the side that I'm turning to,helps me get around a little faster)
3.Does the G or J model seem to be more nimble and agile than the L to you?
4.Is it possible to turn combat trim off completely?(I toggle it off but after I hit auto lvl or auto angle then return to manual control ,the combat trim is on again)
The reason I asked you is because your the only one I remember who flies the 38 exclusively with a great deal of success.Thanks for your help in advance.
VIC
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I can help you on the combat trim problem:
Go to SETUP>PREFERENCES>Flight on your clipboard. Make sure the "Use auto combat trim" is unchecked.
Now, if you swich off autopilot, combat trim should not be on.
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If you use auto level it automatically trims you for "level" flight at that speed. Turn off auto level and that trim stays. However, if you have a few rotary dials (depending on your stick setup) and you map them to the 3 trims, and set them, then when you turn off autolevel I think your trim axis controls take over again and you get your old trim back.
That's from memory on a similar question.
Combat trim in a p38 = BAD. Combat trim is always trying to trim you for level flight or something, so when you pull UP it's trimming you down, or dampening you, or something like that. It screws with the performance of several aircraft, the Ki84 and P38s included.
G is agreed to be the most nimble, but it's also the weakest-powered version as well. I think all 38s can dogfight equally, for the most part.
It should be possible to set up a twin throttle. I don't know how, as I just have a twisty stick analog MS Sidewinder.
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Thanks for the help.I 'll try it all out this evening.I to use a mssidewinder, I bought 3 from a flea market here in town ,still new in the box. I tried the x45 but it kept sticking and losing verious inputs from time to time,then I inadvertantly plugged it in with the power already on and fried something.It all lights up but nothing works(kinda like "the lights are on but nobodies home" thing):D
I also have noticed that all the 38's require a lot of down trim,is this normal or something that can be changed with stick settings?
VIC
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I think that is just normal of the 38. On the old trim, there were the letters E L V and the trim was suggested by a few folks to be best placed at the lower bar in the letter "L". I don't know if that holds true in the re-modeled 3D cockpits now or not.
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The nose up attitude on the 38s helps I think when you are turning and burning in em.
I fly the G. While it's the slowest, it is the best turner and for a furball addict, it's the best one to get low and slow in. Granted I die all the time, but the Spits, N1Ks etc always seem a bit surprised when you can hang with em in the turn fights in the G.
I don't use combat trim when I fly the 38. That was the word from the beginning when I started playing AH. Combat trim=bad in the 38. To be honest I'm not sure why and I'm sure some guys use it, KillnU for one (I think), but those who talked to me first were against it's use.
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38's are cannon fodder.
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imo the only time you really need combat trim is when you're at or above compression speed in a 38. I've used it alot before in all of the 38's in all kinds of situations. I saw no real difference with or without it. It is handy to compesate for the tend towards a positive attitude given by flaps. Trim down to hold the nose level. Trimming all the way up will not help you turn a sharper turn. You can only turn so much before max aoa is reached and you dip a wing. Trim is not some magical physics law breaker. I find it much easier to fiddle with flaps and throtle rather than fiddle with flaps, trim and throtle. And I get the same results everytime using either combination. Too much fiddling in a fight means means time extra time spend to get to and end, extra time spent trying to get to that end (a kill/win) means you die first.
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Originally posted by Stang
38's are cannon fodder.
When I'm flying em they are. Is there a problem with this? :)
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A lot of people prefer the J to the L. I for one am for the L. People say the J turns better than the L and is faster, but if it does it is unnoticable. L rolls better and dive flaps allow it to keep full flaps out when coming out of a loop with another con. I've not been killed by a 38J in a 1 on 1 engagement while flying the L, G will get you if you slip up though.
I've surprised the hell out of a lot of people, they think because I am in a P38L I am on a Jabo mission, and they burn their E and I am quick to get on their 6. A hurrIIC almost wet itself when it found I was able to roll/scissors with it (can't turn with it though). Sucks losing an aileron though and Pilot wounds are easy to recieve.
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You need to worry about learning how to flatten your profile so you don't get blasted everytime someone gets behind you before ya get too technical. Them's be big turgits!:noid
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I'll confess, Im a P-38 junkie as well (slowly raises hand)
Its a surprisingly good turner for dogfights, Im torn between the G and the J. G turns better, J has better power.
Biggest thing you have to remember is the P-38 is a much larger airplane than most of the fighters out there. I was getting my clocked cleaned left and right when I first started flying them. You have to know when to fight and when to get out.
Big perk is all the guns in the nose.
I'm still learning, I'll be curious to see what others suggest.
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I leave combat trim on. Most of, if not all the other 38 jocks turn it off and swear it flies much better. There are only a few times ive messed with it and that is not often enough to bother with it. In the end, it is up to you and your preference. I just dont see the need to be bothered with it.
G-seems most "nimble", turn a tad better. carries less fuel. and has rocket tubes, carries less rockets. I think the tubes add more drag even after rox have been fired. G has less power and is the slowest. G has no WEP and a armor windscreen deal that many have issues with. No power assist ailerons, so rolls like crap.
J-has wep and is about same in speed as the L(think only 1-2 mph difference if any). also has rocket tubes and no power assisted ailerons.
L-see J for speed, has power assisted ailerons, so rolls better(still not the greatest, but much better than G and J). has the 10 rocket tree. has dive flap(help get some lift, combat trim must be off to really see this affect).
thats all i can think of at this time. im sure other will be here to give thier opinions as well.
~S~
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Dive flaps don't generate lift like normal flaps. The problem with dives is that there is too much pressure on the control surfaces to "pull out" of the dive, so the dive flaps disrupt the airflow a little so that you can, in fact, pull up after the dive.
They change the airflow, they don't increase lift.
You want to increase lift, pop a notch of flaps.
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sigh...whatever...they are suppose to make the nose come up on high speed dive. better?
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One of the things I find that is correctly modeled in AH for the P-38 is the fact that the dive flaps WILL give you a momentary nose up pitch of AS MUCH AS 15 degrees. This is correct, as I know several pilots who used this in combat. It does not work, nor is it useful, in ALL situations, but it does in some.
Yes, they are designed and intended to modify the airflow to alleviate the nose down "Mach Tuck" of compression. However, after having guys like Ilfrey, Olds, and a couple of others tell me it worked to give you an extra bit of nose up pitch to get a shot, I tried it and it does work.
I've also used the dive flaps to give me "just a little bit more" when I was low and slow in a turn fight with the flaps all the way down.
Krusty, I suggest you look deeper into how and why the dive flaps really work. I can suggest some books if you like. Or you can email former Lockheed engineer and P-38 expert Warren Bodie and ask him. Your explanation is NOT correct.
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Well that's how they were explained to me, some time ago. I apologize if it's incorrect, and stand corrected.
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Originally posted by VIC
1. Does the 38 performe better with or witout combat trim? (PLEASE ELABORATE ON YOUR ANSWER)
Combat/Manual trim in P38 (http://479th.jasminemarie.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=29)
2. Is it possible to setup a duel throttle to control engines seperately?(I find that decreasing engine RPM on the side that I'm turning to,helps me get around a little faster)
Yes. I have the 3 finger buttons on my CH throttle set to Select_engine_1, Select_All, Select_engine_2, so that I can work engines independently. If you had a duel or quadrant throttle that would be better yet.
I am a little suspect of any pronounced turning performance with lessor power to the engine inboard of the turn, but I do find it usefull for boosting roll rate, and departure recoveries.
3.Does the G or J model seem to be more nimble and agile than the L to you?
The G is the tightest turning of the 3. The J and the L are pretty even though the J has a slight edge in instanious turn rate. My main ride is the J
4.Is it possible to turn combat trim off completely?(I toggle it off but after I hit auto lvl or auto angle then return to manual control ,the combat trim is on again)
If you have it turned off in preferences/flight, it will work the opposite way, and wont come on after using auto-pilot. I have a stick button set to toggle CT for making quick adjustments. Under most conditions I trim elevators to the bottom of the L in "ELE"
Also, in the 479th Raiders Library (http://479th.jasminemarie.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=20) there are a number of P38 films by AKAK, and myself with some tips in their respective write-ups.
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Actually krusty does have it right in regards to what happens with the airflow.....sort of. During compression the shockwaves form on top of the wing slightly forward of center, which becomes the dominant air pressure. Think of it, the high pressure is on TOP of the fore half of the wing. That's what causes the tuck under effect. With the dive flaps deployed, and the slight pitch caused by them, the shock wave formation moves aft on the top of the wing. The compression is still there, but now it is easier to gain lift under the fore of the wing. They do cause pitch when deployed though.
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I find that the most pronouced time you see a difference with combat trim on/off is at very slow speeds like when your roping someone.
With Combat Trim on, at the top of your rope the plane will try to auto trim as you try to flop over....I'm sure AKAK and Murdr and Killn don't "Flop" over at the top as they are much better at this than I and I'm sure much more gracefull .... but as the Combat trim adjusts, and your maneuvering it is very easy to get "stuck" in the air. It can take a number of seconds for the nose to finally fall out and the plane gather some speed to maneuver again.
Without Combat trim on it is very easy to get below 50 knots an still be able to maneuver in the same situation.
For the record, I fly with combat trim off all the time, and flip it on and off quickly to re-trim the plane at different speeds.
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thanks for all the advice and will try it out.
all
VIC
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I find that the most pronouced time you see a difference with combat trim on/off is at very slow speeds like when your roping someone.
Exactly , it has a major impact on stalls and low speed manuvering . for the most part at anything over 300 MPH auto trim works fine . anything below 250 and its a liabilty . 38