Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: LePaul on July 16, 2001, 09:56:00 PM
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Yikes...just caught this on rec.aviation.homebuilt and a few friends pointed this out to me since I have one. (Mine is anout 90% done, needs to be modernized and have engine installed, aviaonics, etc).
News article at
http://www.kxtv10.com/news-story/July2001/071401/PLANE-CRASH.htm (http://www.kxtv10.com/news-story/July2001/071401/PLANE-CRASH.htm)
Here's what one poster said of the accident:
"It was a BD-5 turboprop, registration N104BD, owned by Richard Levitsky of
Cameron Park, California. We don't know the exact model or whether it was an
original modified BD-5 or one of BD Micro's FLS-5's. So far all we know that
it was his first or second flight, that the aircraft took off and
immediately entered into nose up/down oscillations and crashed shortly
thereafter near Hwy 50."
Kinda hits close to home, ya know? I'm suprised he didnt have a chute. As much as I love my bird, if its begining the death chant, out I go.
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Hmm if he had just taken off, he probably didn't have the alt to bail even if he wanted to. Something you have to consider when you're flying something that small and fast is that if you have to make an off-field landing, you are at high risk of being injured or killed.
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Good point.
It'll be interesting to see what the investigation uncovers. Oscillations and such generally point to being out of CG. But, it could be something else. I'd be interested to know if this was a BD-5T from the folks at BD-Micro, or if this guy crafted his own bird and engine combo. The guys at BD-Micro are very much behind the BD-5T and have quite a setup.
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From what i've heared is that the BD5s in general have very light stick forces and the inherent stability of the A/C is not very pronounced... there have been problems with pilot induced oscilations that caused a few wrecks of what i've heared..
it's an awfully short coupled li'll airplane that one..
and as for bailing .. you need quite some altitude to get out of any airplane that i know of .. and the tighter and smaller the cockpit the longer it takes.
DW6
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SOunds like either a elev balance problem, or COG problem, or both?
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in my 1st hour of flight training the instructor said to hold stright an level, i imeaditly started chasing the horizon (pilot induced oscilations )...
instructor said to let go of the yoke and when i did the plane went level...
"see" he said "this plane knows how to fly itself"
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Originally posted by john9001:
in my 1st hour of flight training the instructor said to hold stright an level, i imeaditly started chasing the horizon (pilot induced oscilations )...
instructor said to let go of the yoke and when i did the plane went level...
"see" he said "this plane knows how to fly itself"
This works with a docile, in trim, trainer or "spam can". It doesn't apply if there is a control malfunction , severely out of trim or inherantly unstable aircraft.
Mav
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Also, you were flying a type-certified aircraft. Built in an assembly line, flight tested and such. This BD-5 was most likely built by the pilot (not certain if he got it 2nd hand, etc).
The BD-5 does have light stick forces, note the size of the elevator if you see one, they are pretty huge, but they also have a lotta nose to lift.
It turns out the BD-5T that went down was one that is made by BD-Micro, the very same folks who I want to have finish my BD-5 and such. Like many others, we're all curious what the NTSB says and finds. This might just be the reason to shove mine into the corner and seriously ponder either the RV-7 (http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/rv-7int.htm) or go for the real pipe dream...(http://www.viper-aircraft.com)
I'll pass along details as I get em.
[ 07-18-2001: Message edited by: LePaul ]
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tweetr, a wb player has an rv-4 and man o man is that plane awesome. I have been in a lot of different aircraft, including warbirds but nothing was as much fun to fly as that bad boy. Its on the shortlists of must haves.
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A Must-Have list? Oh my, don't get me started.
Top of mine would be the chopper from "Blue Thunder" hehe...except modify that turrent as a paintball machine gun. Oh, that would be awesome on the paintball field :)
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You also have to consider that the urge to just get out of the plane isn't that great in flight. Personally unless something big like a wing failure occured, I would stick with it. Perhaps you're over a populated area when something goes wrong? I would rather die in the wreck than kill someone on the ground with an unpiloted aircraft as I floated to safety.
I am interested in the new ballistic parachutes they are making for ultralites. I think it is a wonderful concept. The pilot stays with the plane and the plane can be revocered with minimal damage even if something bad (like wing or control failure) happens in flight.
I recall seeing some news of a company wanting to make these things for commercial airliners. This I don't think is practical. Most airliner crashes happen on approach, or they get blown out of the sky by a terrorist bomb. I don't see where a ballistic revoery chute would benefit an airliner in either situation. They said the system would jetison the wings and tail to save weight, but it would still be an enormous amount of weight. Never happen for commercial airliners if you ask me. The consumers wouldn't be willing to pay the inflated fares for this safety feature that would only work in a handful of situations.
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And Mark Weight alone is no the problem with BRS.. it's airspeed !
The new Cirrus SR20 is the first certified A/C with a BRS, but ULs have used them for years but they got it pretty easy as they are cruising relatively slow.. try deploying a chute during a high speed failure on a Lancair at 220KIAS.
(http://www.cirrusdesign.com/images/gal_caps_bluechute1.jpg)
(http://www.cirrusdesign.com/images/gal_caps_bluechute2.jpg)
(http://www.cirrusdesign.com/images/gal_caps_bluechute3.jpg)
(http://www.cirrusdesign.com/images/gal_caps_bluechute4.jpg)
See he's going just above stall speed in these photos (engine stopped , flaps full down)
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Good point, Duckwing.
Something I hadn't thought of is that while you may be over a nice area when you deploy the chute, the wind could blow you into a not-so-nice area. It would be kind of scary not being able to control the situation after the chute deploys. I guess I would want to deply the chute near it's minimal altitide to prevent most of the drift. Still, I would be reluctant to pull the chute, and that would only be during a really bad failure. If it can be glided and the terrain is OK I would dead-stick it.
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Thing is that the envelope of that BRS is pretty small.. you'd only be able to fire it at slow speeds so any high speed structural failure i doubt it would deploy allright if you shed a wing at high speeds.
It might be usefull if you're above un-landable terrain tho as you'll have minimal forward speed (even with wind-drift) and an impact with crashresistant seats with mainly a straight down vector on your mains is pretty surviveable compared to a say 70KIAS ditch in rough terrain.
So maybe in a stall/spin situation, loss/jammed controls situation, or nigh engine failure (definitely would deploy there!) it might be life saving .. IF deployed.
DW6
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I've heard of them being used as a practical last ditch effort spin recover tool... apparently they work very well at this.
Hopefully they'll start using hispeed chute deployment systems...the most reliable system I can think of offhand is the ejection system used on the US space capsules. But those particular ones have a rate of descent that is to high for light planes...maybe a drag chute that gives way to a main?
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2nd flight for the pilot, he hit the freeway and skidded off into a ravine, sounds like an attempt to land but thats a pretty narrow strip of concrete coming from the direction of CP airpark the runway at CP runs NS and 50 runs EW there and since he ended up on the S side of 50 thats really narrow. Course the local news indicated he crashed in El Dorado Hills thats 10 miles W of CP air but the freeway is all up and down there also like higher up at CP, its all mountainous be a tough landing to pull off in any plane, be lucky to power to a flat portion of freeway let alone ride a bucking bronco and land on your wheels while dodging the traffic that time of the morning. I live 10 miles up the road at CP. As far as the chute thingy goes, I think a roll cage or unibody would be of more use since the greatest danger is on take off and landing. Think that plane chutes for the dummy that like to fly around with 1/2 a tank all the time and 30 oz of water rolling around in it and doesn't know what a drain noodles for.
[ 07-19-2001: Message edited by: B52Charlie ]
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I think a roll cage or unibody would be of more use
Right on! Long live tube and fabric aircraft! Not these spam cans that fold up like an accordian when they crash.
There was once a Tri-Pacer that was taking off from a primitive field. A stump hit the lower portion of the fuselage, taking many strutural members with it. The pilot then had a choice of hitting the trees at a high rate or pulling it off. He pulled it off and that Tri-Pacer took him to a safe landing, thanks to the redundancy and strength of steel tube fuselages. Try that with a Cessna and you'd be dead, since the Cessna gets it's strength from the skin of the aircraft.
Did you know the Corsair has fabric covered wings? The rib stitching is obviously very close together. It is quite an interesting design. I wonder if any of the sims properly model the fabric covered wings?