Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Mickey1992 on December 14, 2005, 12:54:04 PM
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Although it appears not without possible failure, this setup is pretty interesting. I had never heard of it before.
Water is pumped up from a small reservoir to a larger, 1.5 billion gallon reservoir. The water then flows back into the smaller reservoir, passing through turbines and generating electricity.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051214/ap_on_re_us/dam_failure
(http://www.geo-synthetics.com/images/taumsauk09small.jpg)
(http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20051214/capt.ny11612141611.reservoir_failure_ny116.jpg)
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Well I guess that's one way to store electricity, doesn't sound too efficient though.
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!#@$!@#$ Boosh
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Grow up, Funked.
How is the water pumped up there? There's a net loss if it's electrically done. Also, does it serve normal irrigation purposes?
Finally, what does the headline have to do with the resevoir? Did it fail?
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I personally blame the Boosh energy policy and slow FEMA response. Boosh lied, homes and cars died.
The water is pumped up there... with pumps. Electrically driven.
When hydroelectric power supply exceeds demand (like in the middle of the night), they store some of the energy by pumping the water up. Then when you have high demand you can let it come down and spin your turbines, and you get most of the energy back. It's basically a big battery. We have these in California too.
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
I personally blame the Boosh energy policy and slow FEMA response. Boosh lied, homes and cars died.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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What you are describing is a very large and cumbersome perpetual motion device. It is impossible. The energy used to pump the water up to the second reservoir would exceed that prduced by the turbines.
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Originally posted by Mickey1992
(http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20051214/capt.ny11612141611.reservoir_failure_ny116.jpg)
That looks like a disaster waiting to happen.
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Originally posted by Skilless
What you are describing is a very large and cumbersome perpetual motion device. It is impossible. The energy used to pump the water up to the second reservoir would exceed that prduced by the turbines.
The system isn't designed to create energy. It just stores energy during off-peak periods.
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
The system isn't designed to create energy. It just stores energy during off-peak periods.
Bingo (http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N14218762.htm)
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
The system isn't designed to create energy. It just stores energy during off-peak periods.
Ah, yes...
I guess I should have skimmed the article better...
It still seems like a very elaborate and inefficient way to store energy...
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Not the sort of place you want to allow dynamite fishing....
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I don't think it's all bad. Something like that might actually make wind or solar power somewhat feasible.
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It still seems like a very elaborate and inefficient way to store energy..
IIRC, pumped hydro is the cheapest way to store electricty. It can also release it very quickly when needed. Dinorwig in North Wales, for example, can go from standby (when it uses no power) to 1300 megawatts in about 10 seconds, which is very handy for coping with sudden spikes in power demand (or drops in supply)
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It's all about peak demand. They've been doing this for decades in other places.
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I know this area well. I have camped and floated the rivers for many years there. The damage was in a small area, but some of the best places were damaged badly.
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/missouristatenews/story/0A4A827BA5C98DB2862570D7004F9A49?OpenDocument
The Taum Sauk Hydroelectric Plant consists of a 50-acre lake built atop Proffit Mountain that is connected by a mile-long tunnel to a 300-acre lake at the base of the hill. The upper lake is about 700 feet higher in elevation than the lower one. AmerenUE drains the upper reservoir through generating turbines during times of peak electrical demand, then pumps the water back uphill when demand for electricity is lower.
The Proffit Mountain upper reservoir, at 1,590 feet in elevation, is just west of Taum Sauk Mountain, the highest point in Missouri.
Reservoir, generator built in 1963
Union Electric Co., forerunner to AmerenUE, built the system to great fanfare in 1963, mainly to meet the rapidly increasing popularity of air-conditioning in homes and buildings.
The upper reservoir was built by digging 10 feet into the mountaintop and then ringing the bowl with a crush-rock berm, or thick wall, that is about 80 feet tall. When filled, holds 1.5 billion gallons at a maximum depth of about 90 feet.
The interior, or bowl, of the reservoir is lined with asphalt on the bottom and concrete along the rock berm. Rainwater said the company installed a plastic liner to the interior two years ago to stop minor leaks. He said the rock berm never had been breached before.
But when it did, water cascaded about a mile down the western slope of the mountain and into the east fork of the Black River, about a quarter mile upstream from the Shut-Ins campground.
The flood then roared through the park and downstream about two miles into AmerenUE’s lower reservoir. Rainwater said the flow topped the lower reservoir’s dam by only one foot, which he called manageable. The Black continues flowing southward toward Lesterville.
Flooding could have been much worse
Reservoir emptied in about 12 minutes
The Shut-Ins is on the east fork of the Black River, about a mile downhill from the AmerenUE upper reservoir. The Shut-Ins is a series of rock formations through which the east fork bubbles and cascades. It is a popular swimming attraction, especially for young people, during the summer months.
Rainwater of AmerenUE told reporters that a monitor at the company’s station at the Lake of the Ozarks, where the company generates electricity through Bagnell Dam, indicated that the upper reservoir had been refilled by 5:12 a.m., but had fallen back to low level by 5:24 a.m.
“It had emptied in about 12 minutes,” he said during a news conference at company headquarters near downtown. “We don’t know what could have caused it.”
The breach in the northwestern wall dropped the water level in the upper reservoir by about 70 feet, he said.
The Federal Energy Regulatory Commission last inspected the Taum Sauk upper and lower reservoirs on Aug. 25 and found "the project was properly maintained and operating consistent with the license," said J. Mark Robinson, director of the agency's office of energy projects.
Inspectors review the structures, observing the concrete and looking for any cracking or seepage.
The Taum Sauk dams are considered "high-hazard potential" structures because their failure could lead to loss of life or property.
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"The Lesterville area and areas south along the Black River are in extreme peril," said Missouri State Highway Patrol Sgt. Marty Elmore. "We need to make every effort to have folks get to higher ground."
As with anything near a manmade object being used to try and control a natural resource.
From the beginning it is doomed to eventually fail.
Oh they may work well for a while. perhaps even a long while.
But in the end nature always always always wins.
After all. Time is on its side
:cool:
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
!#@$!@#$ Boosh
:rofl :cry :rofl :cry :rofl :cry :rofl :cry
Karaya
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
!#@$!@#$ Boosh
When I started playing AH and reading this forum, funked was one of the best contributors here. Now the only time you see him writing something it's this crap.
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
I personally blame the Boosh energy policy and slow FEMA response. Boosh lied, homes and cars died.
I have to admit that this was a funny one.
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Seems like it will take a while to patch.
(http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20051215/capt.mojef10212150156.reservoir_failure_mojef102.jpg)
(http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20051215/capt.mojef10412150219.reservoir_failure_mojef104.jpg)
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Originally posted by mora
When I started playing AH and reading this forum, funked was one of the best contributors here. Now the only time you see him writing something it's this crap.
It was sarcasm.
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I do realize that. It just gets old when you repeat it 1000 times. You got to know when to stop, it just haven't been funny for a year or so..
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Mora, the thing is, when I say that stuff, the MSM usually DO end up blaming Boosh a few days later. I think you would get it more if you were over here and had to listen to all the partisan fingerpointing in our media.
And BTW I did explain the operating principle of the reservoir in question, I think that counts as a contribution.
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Sometime a thing is funny the 1st time, less funny the 2nd, less and less...but after a couple dozen, hillarious again.
WWWWWAAAAAAAAAAZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZUUUUUUUUUUUUUPPPPPPPPP PPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!
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Where's Farakhan and his eyewitnesses??? Or was it only white folks that lived in the demolished homes?
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Mora, the thing is, when I say that stuff, the MSM usually DO end up blaming Boosh a few days later. I think you would get it more if you were over here and had to listen to all the partisan fingerpointing in our media.
And BTW I did explain the operating principle of the reservoir in question, I think that counts as a contribution.
I didn't actually get that impression while over there, but I mostly watched Fox though. And sorry, I somehow missed your contribution.