Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: RightF00T on December 18, 2005, 10:41:16 PM
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Anyone watching this? Its on the history channel. It has first and third person accounts of great dogfights in history. What is amazing is they're using CGI to illustrate what went on. Right now, they're explaining an F4/MIG fight in which the F4 tried to rope and failed and then they entered a rolling scissors.
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Watched it the first time it aired, then watched it again, and again, and again...
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Originally posted by RightF00T
Right now, they're explaining an F4/MIG fight in which the F4 tried to rope and failed and then they entered a rolling scissors.
yes Randall "Duke" Cunningham is the F4 pilot,
wonder where he is now :O
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Yeah I watched it the first time. Was a great account of all the wars, wish they would do one that is just WWII. Some of the german 30mm footage is amazing, especially where the one round blew that p51 in half.
Also seemed that their 50cal bullets do more damage than ours do ;)
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Originally posted by traps
yes Randall "Duke" Cunningham is the F4 pilot,
wonder where he is now :O
Trying to get a monopoly on aerial gas stations for F4's out of go juice. I hear he's having trouble finding the funding :)
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I wish I could see that, but Canadian History Chanell is slower.
Being Canadian , I do know that the greatest air battle of WW2 was over Dieppe. And as a Canadian, I can't thank enough all the RAF that tried their best to minimize the results of a beachhead tragedy. Many CDN soldiers , were given extra vigor to try and fight on, against all odds, when witnessing the endless vapour trails that criss crossed the skies, as our commonwealth brothers fought the Lufftwaffa, man for man, squad for squad for 8 hours.
Some RAF pilots refueled and rearmed 3 times. There isn't a single Canadian who knows their WW2 stuff, that isn't endebted to those valiant RAF guys, and what they did to help. We'll forever be endebted.
Note:The RAF sent 48 squadrons of Spits and were met by 200 German fighters from JG2,JG26 and bombers from KG2,KG45 and KG 77.
4,386 of 6,034 CDN troops died. On your head Mountbatton.
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Recorded it earlier and just finished watching. Anderson's rope of the 109 made me tingly inside. :)
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I just finished watching it 15 minutes ago, very entertaining and informative, its amazing all the things that transfer from sim to real life, tho it was also very clear just how much doesnt.
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LOL except for the MiG dweeb goin for the HO, sprayin and prayin the whole way. I immediately thought of the MA when that happened.:lol I bet the MiG pilot was yelling "Come back here and fight ya pansy!", while Duke was calmly BnZin. Then the MiG yelled "Real men fly russian planes and use cannons to kill friggin sidewinder dweeb!"
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Originally posted by Octavius
Recorded it earlier and just finished watching. Anderson's rope of the 109 made me tingly inside. :)
it is nice fantasty
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I've watched this every-time it has come on. While the battle recreations from the various eras are interesting anecdotal accounts such as these are available in print by the thousands. What really 'turns me on' about this program is the demeanor and attitude of those living pilots. Facing real death and scared chit-less they still maintained an other-wordly stoicism. The matter-of-fact way they describe an engagement and the re-telling of the thoughts and feelings they had at pivotal points during the engagement provide tremendous insight into the mind-set of the pure air warrior and their prodigious mental fortitude under fire. I get goose bumpily all over just talking about it.
:cool:
Zazen
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The actual title of the program was "DogFights". The History channel evidently can't help itself by adding the extra fluff.
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Originally posted by Mime
it is nice fantasty
109 prolly blew his wad on that hard break semi reversal.
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I heard Bud Anderson say that the P-51 could out-turn the 109. Is this true? Was he talking about at high speeds? IIRC, someone in here did a turn comparison, and 109 took like 18-20 seconds to turn, but the P-51 took 21 - 22 seconds. Not a big difference, but....
Maybe someone who has the actual performance data (I don't!) could clear this up.
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Originally posted by SKJohn
I heard Bud Anderson say that the P-51 could out-turn the 109. Is this true? Was he talking about at high speeds? IIRC, someone in here did a turn comparison, and 109 took like 18-20 seconds to turn, but the P-51 took 21 - 22 seconds. Not a big difference, but....
Maybe someone who has the actual performance data (I don't!) could clear this up.
Keep in mind they were fighting well over 20k, the P51s positional flaps would play a huge role up there.
Zazen
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Originally posted by Mime
it is nice fantasty
let me get this right your syaing you know more about it than the guys that flew the planes and got the kills RIGHT!
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shame to see Duke..
Seen it before he was a loser..
Seen it now that he is a loser..
Pretty Amazing how a person can do such amazing things,..then undermine what he fought for..Unless it was to line his own pockets on the backs of the rest of USA's tax paying shcmucks
Makes me sick. gov employees need to be be strrung up when they get caught stealing and cheating...
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I saw it about a month ago. While watching the replay of the "Duke" duel I came to the realization that the vertical overshoot move they made near the end was what I was losing to sometimes in AH. Merge to vertical for both parties, but the one who goes up first and is initially in a bad position hangs everything out and chops throttle to quickly slow his zoom. Other guy who goes up second doesn't expect this or doesn't drop speed in time ends up in front of the first guy. I had a diagram of the "Duke vs. Toon" fight from a book for many years but never really made the connection until I saw it animated.
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Originally posted by traps
yes Randall "Duke" Cunningham is the F4 pilot,
wonder where he is now :O
Congressman Randy "Duke" Cunningham (Randall Harold Cunningham) (R-California), who was re-elected in 2004, is retiring after eight terms in the U.S. House of Representatives. His term ends in January 2007. [1] (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002382694_watch15.html)
Guilty Plea
"Cunningham, an eight-term congressman and hotshot Vietnam War fighter jock, pleaded guilty to graft and tearfully resigned Monday, [November 28, 2005,] admitting he took $2.4 million in bribes mostly from defense contractors in exchange for government business and other favors." [2] (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051129/ap_on_go_co/congressman_s_house;_ylt=AlcLvRLhreOP3lh184f6A8as0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3OXIzMDMzBHNlYwM3MDM-)
See the "Rep Randy 'Duke' Cunningham (R) Shenanigans Program & Worksheet." (http://www.jaxxattaxx.com/usd/syn/duke.htm) Details and supporting article links are provided below and a good summary of the events to date is provided (http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2005/09/11/news/columnists/observer/17_52_579_10_05.txt) by John Van Doorn in the September 10, 2005, North County Times.
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yep was well aware of his doings when I posted it Parin,
just being sarcastic
I think BGB (oddly enough) said it best,
shame when your hero's have clay feet
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I went looking for it, but didn't find it. What's the name of the show?
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Agreed.
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Originally posted by Octavius
Recorded it earlier and just finished watching. Anderson's rope of the 109 made me tingly inside. :)
He told that story at the AW Con in Indy. As he reached the punch line, I looked around the banquet room, and saw dozens of other wide-eyed flight sim dweebs looking around at each other, all with the same thought going through our heads - "Wow! He's describing a real world rope-a-dope!"
It was a real Kodachrome moment :)
culero
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Originally posted by Sandman
What's the name of the show?
:huh
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Originally posted by Stang
:huh
Sandman, what Stang is trying to say is the name of the show is the Title of this thread. ;)
Zazen
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Well... I looked for the title of the thread... even did a title search for "Dogfighter" and TiVo comes up with nothing.
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Originally posted by Sandman
Well... I looked for the title of the thread... even did a title search for "Dogfighter" and TiVo comes up with nothing.
Hmmm Think it's Dogfighting or just Dogfight(s) maybe?
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I tried "DOGFIGHTER" and "DOG FIGHTER".
No luck.
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Originally posted by Mime
it is nice fantasty
Were you there?? I think not. Every time someone mentions this particular show, the Naziphiles crawl out of their holes and spew their endless "knowledge". There are countless variables that could lead to the situation described by Anderson. He’s a well respected vet and I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt concerning his story. To call it fantasy is ignorant.
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On my Tivo, the title is "Dogfights: The Greatest Air Battles". My Tivo snagged it for me without me telling it to ( :) ), as it has noticed that I like things such as Shootout, Mail Call, Battlefield Britain, The Perilous Fight, and Lost Evidence, all excellent war series on the History Channel.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
Watched it the first time it aired, then watched it again, and again, and again...
Obviously watching the Cunningham/Tomb fight with his little
"gomer goggles" on :aok
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Originally posted by Rino
Obviously watching the Cunningham/Tomb fight with his little
"gomer goggles" on :aok
Toon/Tomb was a fictional creation of Ami pilots in Vietnam, there was no Col. Toon or Tomb that flew for the North. Even the most basic research would show that.
back o/t
That show sucked, as I said in the last thread. It sucked on many levels from basic research, to the selection of stories. They just took the most popular Ami accounts of air combat rather then actual search for 'great dogfights'. Even the animation wasn't that great. While I would agree that the Cunningham was a 'great fight' there wasn't a whole to choose from in that era. But in WW1 and WW2 and Korea I could list a number of better accounts of 'dogfighting'.
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Does anyone have it in digital format? BITORRENT anyone?
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Originally posted by Bruno
Toon/Tomb was a fictional creation of Ami pilots in Vietnam, there was no Col. Toon or Tomb that flew for the North. Even the most basic research would show that.
back o/t
That show sucked, as I said in the last thread. It sucked on many levels from basic research, to the selection of stories. They just took the most popular Ami accounts of air combat rather then actual search for 'great dogfights'. Even the animation wasn't that great. While I would agree that the Cunningham was a 'great fight' there wasn't a whole to choose from in that era. But in WW1 and WW2 and Korea I could list a number of better accounts of 'dogfighting'.
Yeah, they should have shown nothing but Nazi accounts instead of
pandering to us "sub-humans". I do wonder how they managed to lose
the war being so obviously superior to the Allies in every way :rolleyes:
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Bruno...Strange that an American produced show, made for an American audience, aired on American TV would feature mainly American dogfights. Thats so freakin weird! Dont worry though...I believe they show "Triumph of the Will" late nite, after the kiddies are in bed....set your TIVO.
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Here we go with Ami tards who can't except any criticism of their favorite TV show...
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And hear you go complaining that the world revolves around us Americans, just as it should, and your helpless to change that...so, all you can do is complain!:rofl
OK...thats enough arrogant bait....I'm sure someone in Great Britain has made the same sort of thing referring to RAF aces. If no one makes one for the nazi aces...hey...well, they lost, right?
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And hear you go complaining that the world revolves around us Americans, just as it should, and your helpless to change that...so, all you can do is complain!
I never typed any such thing. Quote it please...
I will do it for you:
They just took the most popular Ami accounts of air combat rather then actual search for 'great dogfights'. Even the animation wasn't that great. While I would agree that the Cunningham was a 'great fight' there wasn't a whole to choose from in that era. But in WW1 and WW2 and Korea I could list a number of better accounts of 'dogfighting'.
That show was poorly researched, poorly put together, the stories they chose to highlight as 'the greatest dogfights' are nothing more then those that are 'most popular / publicized'. There are plenty of better air combat accounts by pilots, including Ami pilots. Even the animation wasn't that great. You can see better 'films' by folks in the flight game community.
So whatever nonsense you chose to 'read into' what I said above is on you.
However, that show sucked...
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it was fun, no reason to get super critical, ya there were alot of holes, like explaining what the wingmen were doing when the "aces" were doing their thing, but it wasnt made for us virtual pilot tards, it was for the entertainment value, boom bam crack zing.
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Bruno, I would love to see other accounts from other countries, but I just find it hilarious that EVERYTIME something like this comes around, the closet Nazis come out and have to share their "expertise". I don’t deny that there were some problems with the show, but it’s hilarious how the show actually personally offends you. Get a life Heinrich.
Do you even play or are you a board troll with no account?
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I never mentioned 'other countries'. Try reading what I wrote instead making things up in your head.
Asking me if I 'play the game' is irrelevant but since you asked I bet whatever amount of play time I have in AH exceeds your 24 minutes this tour...
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I was merely mentioning the fact that I too would like to see shows featuring other fights, but I was just amazed at the fact that all the Lil Adolfs take such offense to shows like this.
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I didn't 'take offense'. This is a thread discussing a TV show. Most liked it, I didn't. I said so and gave my reasons.
It's folks like yourself who foam at the mouth and 'took offense' (whether that 'offense' was/is real or feigned) at my opinion of that poorly put together show. I never mentioned anything specifically about 'wanting to see other nations'. Go back re-read it.
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lol why should this board be any different from the rest. :lol I get the feeling that many americans have overly sensitive national pride. Even the slightest hint that someone else may be better or just as good, and you'll get a swarm of deeply offended americans telling you where you can stuff it. God forbid it is something german that is discussed, you'll get nazi comments comming out of the proverbial woodwork.
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Anywayyyyyy.....talking about TV shows on air warfare etc. Over here - the UK - we get a good selection of British made docs on the air war but they tend to cover the same old stuff over and over. I imagine it's the same in the US of A. However, Channel 4 (one of our non-cable, non sat channels, ie. "quality"Channels)did a doc on the history of bombing. Interesting, but mainly same old same old. What was interesting to me, were the candid interviews with aircrew - German fighter pilots, American bomber crew, British bomb aimers and gunners etc. They talked more about the actual emotions involved in fighting an air war - something that used to be glossed over a lot more in the past. Willi Reshke was interviewed extensively and talked about the aesthetic appeal of watching his 20mm cannon shells taking a bomber apart bit by bit, or how he used to open fire at 600 metres rather than the 400 metres he was supposed to because it helped calm his nerves. An RAF bomb-aimer talking about how he agonized for years after the war, because of the civilians he'd helped bomb to bits. Interesting stuff and quite different from the way documenteries were in the past.
A lot of these guys are dying off now, so soon we won't see any more interviews with WWII combat crew...