Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: bagrat on December 19, 2005, 01:12:15 AM
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I was thinkin about an idea that may work in a way to have people fly more strategically, and although i don't have much a problem with headons
it may make a person think twice before attempting if there was more at stake.
I feel every plane should be perked, excluding the spit and hurri 1, these would be free. The reason for this is if a person is in low eny plane if it is used properly you may only get killed if you are jumped or wreckless.
Basically my idea would work both ways, like if your in a hurri2C eny 35, and kill a LA-7 eny 5, hurri is rewarded 7 perks. However because the LA-7 has the advantage over the hurri and it should not get killed unless it does something wreckless it will result in the La-7 to lose 7 perks.
Another purpose for this is so that people may use more difficult planes adding to variety, rather then entering a furball of Spit16's N1k's an LA7's.
GOING INTO HEADONS
entering headons with Nik's (i believe the eny is 5 or 6) gets somewhat annoying and pretty sure that they for the most part have no problem with it. IMO is because they are at the advantage with four 20mm cannons and nearly 1,000 rounds so the N1k will probably start sprayin at 1k, and you are opposing in a Spit V with only 2 20mm cannons and 120 rounds so you will be a little more picky with your shot. Chances are if the guy is any good you'll lose, but he'll still only be rewarded around .14 perks. But would it be worth it because if the N1k loses in the headon he will lose 5 perk points. (5 perk points is what the spit would be rewarded 35/5)
The idea may not have much effect on fighting when both people are in nearly same eny of planes for the reason that neither the reward nor the loss will be that great.
WHY THE SPIT AN HURRI 1 WOULD NOT BE PERKED
some people really don't care about perks and will lose all of there perks being wreckles an suicidal, the result will leave them with 0 perks and force them to use spit or hurri one ( both have eny of 60) and with a plane with such high eny value almost a kill on anything will result in a good amount of perks (possibly around 5-10 perks) , allowing them to use any plane they want again, maybe they'll use a higher eny plane to get more perks and not have much at stake, or maybe they'll use a low eny plane knowing if they are wreckless and lose it to something that is not considered formidable they will be forced to start over again. If they use the low eny plane and get killed by a reasonable opponent they will not lose many perks seeing as how both planes would probably have low eny values.
A PROBLEM WITH THIS IDEA
the problem is there are many people that just want to fly the plane they want and do not want to be penalized, for this problem i do not have a solution.
P.S
Im not sure if i explained my idea properly and also feel I may have been somewhat repetitive. Also this is not a "play my way" idea.
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but it *is* a "play my way" idea. and it's nowhere near as new as you might think.
not gonna happen. nope. not noway nohow.
:aok
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nope never
:aok
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The opposers to the new ideas are nothing but 'play my way' crowd either. They want to stick to the easymode arena settings we have now.
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I have to give the idea 0.00 points. However I do have to add bonus points for explaining it in about 1/3rd the amount of words it would have taken kweassa. Total score 0.666667 :)
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bagrat,
You missed the biggest problem with this idea and that that HTC is a business that must make money.
Why would a new player stick around in their ENY 60 fighter to be preyed on by people like Levithn, Citabria, Shane, Nath BDP or even mere veterans like me flying fast, manuevable and powerful fighters?
They wouldn't and HTC would go out of business.
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Originally posted by Karnak
bagrat,
You missed the biggest problem with this idea and that that HTC is a business that must make money.
Why would a new player stick around in their ENY 60 fighter to be preyed on by people like Levithn, Citabria, Shane, Nath BDP or even mere veterans like me flying fast, manuevable and powerful fighters?
They wouldn't and HTC would go out of business.
um, WWII online? thats how it works in that game and they are doing just fine. and they have lower monthly subscription cost.
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Another idea that would drive HTC out of business ... no fun in that.
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how many perks would the C.202 cost in this scenario? :O
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Originally posted by SMIDSY
um, WWII online? thats how it works in that game and they are doing just fine. and they have lower monthly subscription cost.
That's cuz they have the infantry and tanks to play with. I was a n00b there and was stuck with the 109e against all the spits.
I didn't stay.
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Originally posted by bagrat
A PROBLEM WITH THIS IDEA
Yes, there most certainly is.
That "problem" with people just wanting to fly various cartoon airplanes isn't a problem; it's the whole point of the game.
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The appeal of this game is to hop online, get in your favorite WW2 Combat aircraft and "Play War" with hundreds of real people all over the world. Once you take away that most fundamental appeal you've stolen the soul from the game, it will lose its appeal and its paying customers.
Zazen
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Wouldn't it be better if a new player got more perks for killing a fighter with a much better ratio? ie... I'm inexperianced and going up against a guy ranked #74 in fighters and has a k/d ratio of 5.6 to 1. I am ranked 898 in fighters and have a k/d raitio of .21 to 1. If I can manage to kill him, my perk bonus should be 5x greater. Don't whine about HO's any good pilot can avoid them. Lynx is a prime example he doesn't get HO'd cause he's smart enough to avoid them. The whiners about HO's normally whine cause they lose em. How many guys will try to HO you in a 110? Probably 97%, but they are easy to avoid. It's just like my momma said, "it takes two to argue, you can't do it alone" Better yet don't let that dang Pacerr guy fly LA7's. When you're that good, why do you need to fly that plane?
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Originally posted by SMIDSY
um, WWII online? thats how it works in that game and they are doing just fine. and they have lower monthly subscription cost.
Wrongo.
The most recent time I quit ww2ol because of their asinine policy of requiring you to, some how, miraculously, obtain kills in the POS Hawk 75 and then land them... so you could accumulate points to move up in rank.. where you were allowed to then, if you could find them, fly better planes until the field ran out of supply..
The algorithm may have worked in the old days .. oh, wait..that was back when all you had to do was fly for 15 mins, land, and you could get points credit...
ww2ol, if it is sucessful, is only because of it's ground game. I give them credit there... it is awesome.
Their flight aspect, however, is truly a casework of how not to do things.
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Originally posted by SMIDSY
um, WWII online? thats how it works in that game and they are doing just fine. and they have lower monthly subscription cost.
A couple of years ago I killed a newbie five or six times in a row. I wasn't vulching him and I wasn't hunting him. These "fights" took place about halfway between my base and his with plenty of aircraft on both sides around. He was flying an La-5FN and I was flying a Mossie. He never had a chance in any of those fights given his skill level. I'll grant you that if he'd been forced to fly a Spit I, Hurri I, P-40B, Bf109E-4 or A6M2 I'd have only killed him three or four times, but that would have been because it would have taken him longer to get back for me to kill him.
If he was utterly helpless to a Mossie when flying an La-5FN, can you imagine how hopeless it would have been if he'd been in a 60 ENYer?
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bagrat: The biggest problem with your idea is how it changes how every flys. It would put far to heavy of penaltiy on death. Hence people would wrather live than fight. Now this sounds good until you relize it meens everone is running from fights unless they have a huge advantage.
HiTech
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Originally posted by hitech
Now this sounds good until you relize it meens everone is running from fights unless they have a huge advantage.
HiTech
uhhhh... and this is different *now* in what way?
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Scoring systems which penalize deaths too heavily have led to a much more "passive" style of play.
Systems which penalize new players because they don't have the years the veterans do to afford competetive planes drive new people away.
All that being said, I think the current MA places so little value on death that it has skewed the style of play more towards the absurd.
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You know what would improve gameplay and fights more than anything?!?
Make it so killing planes on the ground do not count toward score (no perks, no kill awarded messages, no points). Seems like it would be very easy to do, there's already code to prevent certain types of kills from counting during certain types of missions. Just something like:
IF EnemyPlaneAlt=0 THEN KillCount=0
You could still vulch as you needed to to effect base captures but it would not benifit your score unless you at least let the enemy get airborne. That would double the number, frequency and duration of fights in the MA and would give my poor weary eyes a rest in Ostwinds/Field Guns. ;)
Zazen
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Originally posted by Zazen13
You know what would improve gameplay and fights more than anything?!?
Make it so killing planes on the ground do not count toward score (no perks, no kill awarded messages, no points). Seems like it would be very easy to do, there's already code to prevent certain types of kills from counting during certain types of missions. Just something like:
IF EnemyPlaneAlt=0 THEN KillCount=0
You could still vulch as you needed to to effect base captures but it would not benifit your score unless you at least let the enemy get airborne. That would double the number, frequency and duration of fights in the MA and would give my poor weary eyes a rest in Ostwinds/Field Guns. ;)
Zazen
though at bases above sea level, CV's even, your altitude is not 0.
im not sure, but i think thats what shows in the film viewer also, not height above ground, but above sea level
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Originally posted by Mustaine
though at bases above sea level, CV's even, your altitude is not 0.
im not sure, but i think thats what shows in the film viewer also, not height above ground, but above sea level
LOL ... so change it to ... IF EnemyPlaneAltAGL=0 THEN KillCount=0
Still it wouldn't make that much of a difference. Those who rely on "vulchin" to pad their score to make them look l33t will only have to wait a few more seconds for the same kill ... just enough time to get wheels off the ground.
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Originally posted by Bobby
Wouldn't it be better if a new player got more perks for killing a fighter with a much better ratio? i
They tried something lke this in early AW...it was an umitigated disaster.
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i feel like we are talking old apple ii programming
10 PRINT "Hello"
20 GOTO 10
:aok
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Originally posted by Mustaine
though at bases above sea level, CV's even, your altitude is not 0.
im not sure, but i think thats what shows in the film viewer also, not height above ground, but above sea level
Yea, it would be 0 AGL , above ground level, not sea level. I don't see too many people vulching the carrier deck of a CV.
Zazen
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Originally posted by SlapShot
LOL ... so change it to ... IF EnemyPlaneAltAGL=0 THEN KillCount=0
Still it wouldn't make that much of a difference. Those who rely on "vulchin" to pad their score to make them look l33t will only have to wait a few more seconds for the same kill ... just enough time to get wheels off the ground.
Yea, Slappy but think how it would play out. Say you have 8 vulchers and 5 guys trying to take off to defend. Ok, if the vulchers shoot them the moment they spawn or as they are slowly taxiing down the runway they can easily keep pace with the spawning defenders and still preserve energy. But, if they have to let the defenders get wheels up where they are able to manuever the vulchers are going to miss shots and slow down to mauever for shots, the defenders will then have a chance to get multiple planes airborne simultaneously effectively breaking the tight CAP. The vulchers would also have to linger longer and manuever more within the field's umbrella of AA fire, increasing the chances of vulcher death and improved numerical parity for the defenders. In effect what this would do is make the margin off error for timing very slim when keeping a base tightly CAP'd. The likelihood of the vulchers losing tight CAP would be greatly enhanced thereby enhancing the liklihood a real fight with some semblence of parity would ensue and persist.
Zazen
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It would also change the tactic of taking off under a vulch. Instead of trying to get airborne as fast as possible, the new tactic would be to get as much speed as you could while keeping your wheels on the ground, then time your lifting to dodge attacks as best as possible. A manuverable fighter like an A6M, Hurricane or FM2 or a powerful one like a Spitfire Mk XVI, La-7 or Ki-84 can do surprisingly well in that circumstance.
If you wanted to limit it even more you could program it so that the plane would need to have been off the ground for 10 or more seconds to count.
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Originally posted by Karnak
It would also change the tactic of taking off under a vulch. Instead of trying to get airborne as fast as possible, the new tactic would be to get as much speed as you could while keeping your wheels on the ground, then time your lifting to dodge attacks as best as possible. A manuverable fighter like an A6M, Hurricane or FM2 or a powerful one like a Spitfire Mk XVI, La-7 or Ki-84 can do surprisingly well in that circumstance.
That's a great point Karnak, that's exactly what they would do in real life, under the same circumstances. I don't see any reason why this idea wouldn't be doable and beneficial to gameplay. If someone can think of a reason why this would not be a good thing please chime in.
This whole concept would also put an end to the rash of career runway vulchers that up a Fw190D9 or La7 alt to 15k dive passed 15 intervening cons to make high speed vulch passes up and down the runway on the take-off spots before they inevitably run or get wacked. Sure they could still be griefers and do it just to be salamanders, but not for perks, points and 'name in lights'. I'd wager $100 this type of nonsense grinds to a screeching halt if pure vulching was no longer rewarded in these ways.
It would also put a serious fly in the ointment of the 2 account dorks that vulch themselves, these guys are so pathetic and skill-less they'd prolly miss their other account if it had to be in the air when they shot it.
There'd definately be a radical and permanent adjustment to the Top 100 Fighter List, I promise you that. ;)
Zazen
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Originally posted by Mustaine
i feel like we are talking old apple ii programming
10 PRINT "Hello"
20 GOTO 10
:aok
Back in the day I used to love to go to stores and do that to their display computers, except I was baaaad I'd make it loop something a little more vulgar than, "Hello". ;)
Zazen
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anyway I've been kickin that idea around for a while an finally got the chance to post it.
Im glad to see all the responses it recieved good or bad, although a few people may of misinterpreted my post, if I didn't want your oppinions I would'nt of asked.
So thanks:aok
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............................. .............no
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Zazen....this way ----------------->>> (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=167086&referrerid=7566) :)