Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: MrRiplEy[H] on December 22, 2005, 12:06:13 PM
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A fleet of several bombers aimed directly at foreign airspace and paratroopers in combat action a few meters from the border.
The ways of Soviet Union returning.. Boroda care to comment on that?
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:O Cold War 2
get in your bunkers:noid
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nothing wrong with a cold war as long it doesnt turn hot. Besides they r good for the economy lol:p
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I used to practise Aikido close to the fence that separates our and the neighbours backyard... still havent kicked his arse so im not worried..
but he should be.. :huh
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
A fleet of several bombers aimed directly at foreign airspace and paratroopers in combat action a few meters from the border.
The ways of Soviet Union returning.. Boroda care to comment on that?
An elite airborn division is stationed at Pskov since Soviet times. In Russian scale - it's right at the border of Latvia and Estonia. I think they are simply having regular planned excercises. Latvian and Estonian neo-nazi regimes simply try to attract attention as if they are in danger of invasion. They already received used M-14s from US surplus, now they probably need some ammo for free :D
1) We don't need anything that is left there, all they have is toxic smoked sprats.
2) If Russia was about to invade them - they'll know it 30 minutes after the invasion from a Red Banner on a Riga cathederal.
Did I tell you a story about NATO F-16s based in Estonia? The report was that F-16 can't reach it's top speed over Estonia. Guess why? The country is too small. :lol
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Originally posted by Boroda
An elite airborn division is stationed at Pskov since Soviet times. In Russian scale - it's right at the border of Latvia and Estonia. I think they are simply having regular planned excercises. Latvian and Estonian neo-nazi regimes simply try to attract attention as if they are in danger of invasion. They already received used M-14s from US surplus, now they probably need some ammo for free :D
1) We don't need anything that is left there, all they have is toxic smoked sprats.
2) If Russia was about to invade them - they'll know it 30 minutes after the invasion from a Red Banner on a Riga cathederal.
Did I tell you a story about NATO F-16s based in Estonia? The report was that F-16 can't reach it's top speed over Estonia. Guess why? The country is too small. :lol
You seem to have an answer for everything.
Karaya
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
You seem to have an answer for everything.
Karaya
Pskov Airborn Division is quite famous here, like 101 and 82 in the US.
Sure, I have an answer for any dumb question like that.
Sometimes I pity you.
Didn't you say that you have put me on ignore-list? I thought you did it because that way you couldn't feel your inferiority reading my posts... :rolleyes:
Before you put me back on ignore-list - can you tell me why you are Masherbrum? Himalaya? Alpinism? Masherbrum-II? Why not Nanga-Parbat?
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Originally posted by Boroda
Pskov Airborn Division is quite famous here, like 101 and 82 in the US.
Sure, I have an answer for any dumb question like that.
Sometimes I pity you.
Didn't you say that you have put me on ignore-list? I thought you did it because that way you couldn't feel your inferiority reading my posts... :rolleyes:
Before you put me back on ignore-list - can you tell me why you are Masherbrum? Himalaya? Alpinism? Masherbrum-II? Why not Nanga-Parbat?
Use google, you seem to use it effectively in "protecting the Motherland from the snivelling hands of the West". I'm too lazy to put you back on ignore, because I drive an SUV and listen to Western Music, all while believing in Catholicism.
Karaya
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Use google, you seem to use it effectively in "protecting the Motherland from the snivelling hands of the West". I'm too lazy to put you back on ignore, because I drive an SUV and listen to Western Music, all while believing in Catholicism.
Karaya
So you are not an alpinist. Shame. :(
Do you mean Country-Western music? Right now I am listening to T-Rex, a British band from the 70s. It's more fun for me then country-western.
I am an atheist with Orthodox roots. I have read the Bible and respect all religions, especially Black Faith of Mongols.
I'll ride Moscow underground drinking "skrewdriver" cocktail in 15 minutes, can you afford drinking while riding home from work? ;) Living in a city, not a village, has some pros...
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Originally posted by Boroda
So you are not an alpinist. Shame. :(
Do you mean Country-Western music? Right now I am listening to T-Rex, a British band from the 70s. It's more fun for me then country-western.
I am an atheist with Orthodox roots. I have read the Bible and respect all religions, especially Black Faith of Mongols.
I'll ride Moscow underground drinking "skrewdriver" cocktail in 15 minutes, can you afford drinking while riding home from work? ;) Living in a city, not a village, has some pros...
Neg on Country music. Country music died with Hank Sr. I listen to Pink Floyd, Queen, Led Zeppelin, Who, Beatles, T rex (Slider is Bolan's best work), and many other bands.
I cannot drink and drive anywhere. It isn't safe nor, something fun.
My best friend that was going to climb Masherbrum was in a car accident in 1997. He was already asked to be the best man in my wedding. He was in a coma for a month, and with a shattered right ankle (that was almost amputated). He was the one person I could trust in Alpinism, I walked away from it. Now we do other stuff (backpacking, etc.). He was able to stand in my wedding after learning to speak, and walk again.
Karaya
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WOLVERINES!
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I spent 15 weeks in Estonia setting up their TPS-117 Long Range Radar. I also trained Estonian and Latvian personel on the operation and maintenance of the radar. It pretty much sees whatever is going on over there. Those two countries have little to worry about from Russia.
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Originally posted by Vulcan
WOLVERINES!
ooohhh, that gave me goosebumps:D
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Boroda;
If I recall correctly, you said that you were a former USSR military officer. If so, perhaps you could answer this.
Why is Russia spending 50% of it’s GDP on the military? China is not going to attack you. They are too busy becoming number one in telecommunications manufacturing. The US is not stupid enough to follow Napoleon and Hitler on the Road to Moscow. I know you have serious problems with the separatists down south, but geesus, 50%.
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Originally posted by Rotax447
Why is Russia spending 50% of it’s GDP on the military?
because these are simply irresistable.
(http://www.fighter-planes.com/full/su37.jpg)
MUST
HAVE
MORRRRE! :furious
oh, and they keep crashing so need replacing often.
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Originally posted by RAIDER14
:O Cold War 2
get in your bunkers:noid
Cold war ? Did they train with WMD or what ?
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Boroda, there's an old gent on my block that's latvian. He's about 90 years old. Been here since the 50's.
He hates Russians with a passion and fire that brings a smile to my face every time i see him. I handed him a Mosin Nagant 91/30.. he smiled a toothless smile and infomed me how he took one from a drunk russian soldier, shot him, the killed his 4 buddies that we having a little rape fest in his occupied village.
"Five bullet magazine. just right size for that job. yes, killed many russian dogs witrh their own guns. very much fun. would like to do it again. not many russians here though."
LOL.
I really like the guy. ;)
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Originally posted by Furball
because these are simply irresistable.
MUST
HAVE
MORRRRE! :furious
oh, and they keep crashing so need replacing often.
Theres no fuel to crash them.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
I used to practise Aikido close to the fence that separates our and the neighbours backyard... still havent kicked his arse so im not worried..
but he should be.. :huh
:rofl
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Neg on Country music. Country music died with Hank Sr. I listen to Pink Floyd, Queen, Led Zeppelin, Who, Beatles, T rex (Slider is Bolan's best work), and many other bands.
My choice exactly.
Zep-II - most elegant album ever.
Abbey Road - top of the development. Insanely beautifull.
Atom Heart Mother - absolutely great.
Queen - I listened too much when I was at school, but they were good.
My favourite Bolan's album is Electric Warrior.
I was surprised when I understood that Slade and Grand Funk Railroad are almost forgotten in the West :(
Originally posted by Masherbrum
I cannot drink and drive anywhere. It isn't safe nor, something fun.
I prefer someone drive for me, so I can drink. I don't drive and don't own a car, with Moscow transportation system I don't need it, it takes me 55 minutes to get from home to work by underground (subway, metro, tube), and ober 2 hours by car in rush hours.
Originally posted by Masherbrum
My best friend that was going to climb Masherbrum was in a car accident in 1997. He was already asked to be the best man in my wedding. He was in a coma for a month, and with a shattered right ankle (that was almost amputated). He was the one person I could trust in Alpinism, I walked away from it. Now we do other stuff (backpacking, etc.). He was able to stand in my wedding after learning to speak, and walk again.
My Father took part in preparation for Soviet-Chinese Himalayan expedition in 1958, he wasn't in top team but he had a chance to get there at least as far as a base camp. Thanks to comrade K, they got turned away when they already were on a plane :( What an bellybutton he was :mad: Spoiling relations with China was not a mistake, it was a crime.
I go backpacking, travelled all over the Union from Carpathians to Baikal and from Khibins to Crimea, it's a shame that I never went hiking in Central Asia and didn't see great mountains there :(
I am not an alpinist, I am a mountain hiker. I once made a whole cliff-hanging route, third category, in Crimea, on warm rocks... I Haven't been THAT scared in my whole life.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
LOL.
I really like the guy. ;)
Nice.
JFYI: when Red Army came back in 1944 there were 18 (eighteen) Jews left in Riga (capital of Latvia, if you didn't know, and you probaly didn't).
Latvian SS unit burned a Belorussian village of Hatyn', leaving only one kid who was lucky to run away to tell about the massacre. They burned everyone, ruthlessly. Civilised nation, NATO members, who have 60% of population as "aliens" now.
Nazis.
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boroda... if soviet city life was so good... how come no country that can buy any music they want has a single russian rock album for sale?
All that safe and free soviet living should have given a whole generation of cold warriors lot's of time to produce rock and roll... free houses, free food, free medical... Maybe life was so good there was no need for rock and roll? No need to drink yourself into oblivion on potato squeezins...
lazs
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(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b212/StalinsHeros/reddawn_120704.gif)
Red Dawn is a great movie. Not saying I dream of killing Russian invaders, on the contrary, I respect what they did in WWII, and the technological advances they made. I'm proud to be American, but I don't hate them because they are different from us. They stay there and I'll stay here, and all is good in the world. Red Dawn though, man, great great movie. :aok
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Originally posted by Rotax447
Boroda;
If I recall correctly, you said that you were a former USSR military officer. If so, perhaps you could answer this.
Why is Russia spending 50% of it’s GDP on the military? China is not going to attack you. They are too busy becoming number one in telecommunications manufacturing. The US is not stupid enough to follow Napoleon and Hitler on the Road to Moscow. I know you have serious problems with the separatists down south, but geesus, 50%.
1) I had military training in College, 1990-92, for two years, but I never served. I am a first non-officer in my family in 3 generations.
2) USSR spent 50-70% of GDP on defence, if we didn't - US had plans ready for nuking us and plans for occupational administration like they have in Iraq.
3) Russian Federation can't afford more then 10% GDP for defence. I can search for exact numbers, but I am too lazy and drunk now, sorry. RF military budget is less then 5-10% now.
4) Separatists in the South are already pacified, and I am not satisfied with how it was done. Decimation for every terrorist act is what I want, and I don't care about "human rights" because creatures who attack schools and maternity-hospitals are not humans.
5) After USSR broke apart - Russian Federation's official military doctrine is a massive nuclear strike against any aggressor. We can't afford full-scale conventional warfare. It doesn't mean that we can't take back so-called "Baltic republics" in a matter of hours. We have bought that lands for hard cash back in XVII century, so I still don't understand why they host aggressors.
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Originally posted by lazs2
boroda... if soviet city life was so good... how come no country that can buy any music they want has a single russian rock album for sale?
All that safe and free soviet living should have given a whole generation of cold warriors lot's of time to produce rock and roll... free houses, free food, free medical... Maybe life was so good there was no need for rock and roll? No need to drink yourself into oblivion on potato squeezins...
lazs
LOL I have to reboot to put my favourite song on the Web ;)
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I've heard quite a few good Russian Heavy Metal bands, and they actually have a few good hip hop artists too. Most American chain record stores only carry top-40 stuff, which would explain why many foreign bands aren't available to you. Check out some indie record buy/sell/trade stores....we have one near me called Rock Fantasy that carries stuff that surprises me every time I browse their inventory.
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http://sky1.chph.ras.ru/~pavlov/RA-RNR.mp3
We were standing too proud, we pay three times: for those who went with us, for those who were waiting for us, for those who will never forgive us that R'N'R is dead and we are still alive...
An anti-Soviet underground song from 1983. So true...
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It doesn't mean that we can't take back so-called "Baltic republics" in a matter of hours. We have bought that lands for hard cash back in XVII century, so I still don't understand why they host aggressors.
Would LOVE to see you guys give that a shot. I suspect you'd have yer tulips handed to you, and you'd 'unite' Europe against you in a heartbeat.
It would end forever the 'red threat' from Russia.
And yah, contrary to your assumption I know more about eastern european history than you'd ever guess... a mighty fine teaching tool when I need to make a point about the advantages of an armed population when facing an invader. Care to have a lesson on Finland in the Winter War?
:D
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nope... checked... not one soviet rock album for sale from the cold war era... looks like thousands and thousands of albums from other countries tho.... ones without walls around em to keep people in tho.
lazs
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Originally posted by Boroda
My choice exactly.
Zep-II - most elegant album ever.
Abbey Road - top of the development. Insanely beautifull.
Atom Heart Mother - absolutely great.
Queen - I listened too much when I was at school, but they were good.
My favourite Bolan's album is Electric Warrior.
I was surprised when I understood that Slade and Grand Funk Railroad are almost forgotten in the West :(
True about Grand Funk, but being that I am from Michigan and they were from Michigan. They aren't forgtten here.
Karaya
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Originally posted by Hangtime
Would LOVE to see you guys give that a shot. I suspect you'd have yer tulips handed to you, and you'd 'unite' Europe against you in a heartbeat.
It would end forever the 'red threat' from Russia.
And yah, contrary to your assumption I know more about eastern european history than you'd ever guess... a mighty fine teaching tool when I need to make a point about the advantages of an armed population when facing an invader. Care to have a lesson on Finland in the Winter War?
:D
Blah-blah-blah
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Originally posted by Boroda
1) I had military training in College, 1990-92, for two years, but I never served. I am a first non-officer in my family in 3 generations.
2) USSR spent 50-70% of GDP on defence, if we didn't - US had plans ready for nuking us and plans for occupational administration like they have in Iraq.
3) Russian Federation can't afford more then 10% GDP for defence. I can search for exact numbers, but I am too lazy and drunk now, sorry. RF military budget is less then 5-10% now.
4) Separatists in the South are already pacified, and I am not satisfied with how it was done. Decimation for every terrorist act is what I want, and I don't care about "human rights" because creatures who attack schools and maternity-hospitals are not humans.
5) After USSR broke apart - Russian Federation's official military doctrine is a massive nuclear strike against any aggressor. We can't afford full-scale conventional warfare. It doesn't mean that we can't take back so-called "Baltic republics" in a matter of hours. We have bought that lands for hard cash back in XVII century, so I still don't understand why they host aggressors.
Thanks for the info. 5% to 10% of your GDP is reasonable. 50% did not make any sense at all.
I watched the attack on the Beslan school, live on CNN. If your army had a few battlefield tactical nukes accidentally malfunction in Chechnya, it would not have bothered me at all.
A massive nuclear strike against an aggressor is a perfectly valid defense strategy. NATO used this doctrine against the Warsaw Pact in the 50s and 60s.
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Originally posted by Rotax447
Thanks for the info. 5% to 10% of your GDP is reasonable. 50% did not make any sense at all.
I watched the attack on the Beslan school, live on CNN. If your army had a few battlefield tactical nukes accidentally malfunction in Chechnya, it would not have bothered me at all.
A massive nuclear strike against an aggressor is a perfectly valid defense strategy. NATO used this doctrine against the Warsaw Pact in the 50s and 60s.
woow cool, then we should all get nuclear weapons to be able to "defend" ourself..... sutch a briliant tactic.
Mabe we could start to sell them abroad to various costumers, it would rocket our economy. Anyway local uranium mines are about reopen anyway :)
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Originally posted by Hangtime
Boroda, there's an old gent on my block that's latvian. He's about 90 years old. Been here since the 50's.
He hates Russians with a passion and fire that brings a smile to my face every time i see him. I handed him a Mosin Nagant 91/30.. he smiled a toothless smile and infomed me how he took one from a drunk russian soldier, shot him, the killed his 4 buddies that we having a little rape fest in his occupied village.
"Five bullet magazine. just right size for that job. yes, killed many russian dogs witrh their own guns. very much fun. would like to do it again. not many russians here though."
LOL.
I really like the guy. ;)
Yeah I can see why. Blind hate and judging entire populations based on the interaction of a few members is the way to go.
I know this guy who does the same. His people flew some planes into some buildings in the US.
C'mon Hang, yer way above this level.
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Originally posted by StSanta
I know this guy who does the same. His people flew some planes into some buildings in the US.
Hmmmmm....... I must have missed the news briefs about who was getting raped at the twin towers.
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Merry Christmas!
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Russia practices offensive actions near Latvian and Estonian borders .
I have three things to say about that.
1. So What.
2. Big Deal
3. Who cares?
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Originally posted by Boroda
- US had plans ready for nuking us and plans for occupational administration like they have in Iraq.
Think about that one a while.
It is so typical.
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Originally posted by Furball
because these are simply irresistable.
MUST
HAVE
MORRRRE! :furious
oh, and they keep crashing so need replacing often.
How many crashed so far?
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Originally posted by Hangtime
Would LOVE to see you guys give that a shot. I suspect you'd have yer tulips handed to you, and you'd 'unite' Europe against you in a heartbeat.
It would end forever the 'red threat' from Russia.
I'll tell you one clever thing, but please, don't get offended...
If Russian Army will finally throw away NATO bases and put nazi sprat-killers to where the need to be - noone in "civilized world" will do anything about it. They'll keep screaming about "human rights" and other stuff, but they'll never dare to use force against Russia. You still don't attack DPRK only because they "probably" have several nukes. You are still so whoopee scared! And Europe will scream at the ultrasound about "human rights", but will still buy our oil and natural gas. Just as they did in Soviet times.
Originally posted by Hangtime
And yah, contrary to your assumption I know more about eastern european history than you'd ever guess... a mighty fine teaching tool when I need to make a point about the advantages of an armed population when facing an invader. Care to have a lesson on Finland in the Winter War?
:D
Armed population in so-called "Baltic states" is good only in hunting for Jews and burning helpless villages. Now they jail people who tried to prevent them from this favourite amusement.
IMHO an SS "veteran" march in Riga, supported by their government is a reason enough to come show them their place.
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Armed population in so-called "Baltic states" is good only in hunting for Jews and burning helpless villages. Now they jail people who tried to prevent them from this favourite amusement.
You make me vomit.. Youre sick in the head. Unfortunately there are still fools who think a peaceful coexistence with russia could ever be possible.
The truth is you're brainwashed bunch of toads ready to conquer any peaceloving country that can't fight back. I posted this thread to see Borodas response to 'peaceful' russian armed forces rehearsing offensive warfare next to other nations borders.
He got a hard-on from the thought. That tells it all.
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So SS march never took place in Riga after WW2?
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So there are no neo-nazi groups anywhere in the free world? I never heard of any marches in Riga nor should I care. Borodas statement was not about a certain march. It was a direct and hostile slanderous remark on the general population. What it did do was reveal his real standing.
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Let me rephrase myself "So SS march supported by GOVERNMENT never took place in Riga after WW2?"
BTW Riga's president is a doter of a Politcai "traitor who was a German so called cop" doter of a Nazy it makes it easyer for ya
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
brainwashed bunch of toads
Hey buddy.... don't start defaming toads. Toads had nothing to do with Borodas.
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
The truth is you're brainwashed bunch of toads ready to conquer any peaceloving country that can't fight back.
Define peace loving,you mean country that do not support your way of living?
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Hey buddy.... don't start defaming toads. Toads had nothing to do with Borodas.
Rofl indeed sir. :D My apologies.
Define peace loving,you mean country that do not support your way of living?
With peaceloving I mean a country that maintains a defensive army instead of having 'legendary' armies with a history of invading smaller and defenseless countries.
For all you naysayers I strongly suggest a trip to Estonia, Latvia or Poland and have a chat with the locals. I mean locals too, not the russian population that mass immigrated there after they got annexed.
They will set things straight face to face. 100% guarantee.
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
You make me vomit.. Youre sick in the head. Unfortunately there are still fools who think a peaceful coexistence with russia could ever be possible.
Nothing but peacefull coexistance with Russia is possible. There will be no hostile coexistance.
Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
The truth is you're brainwashed bunch of toads ready to conquer any peaceloving country that can't fight back. I posted this thread to see Borodas response to 'peaceful' russian armed forces rehearsing offensive warfare next to other nations borders.
He got a hard-on from the thought. That tells it all.
Again, for "anti-communist crusaders" (who were once liberated from slavery and given 200% more rights that the main nation of the Empire): Look at the map. See Pskov. See how far it's from "Baltic" borders. There is a famous airborn division stationed in Pskov. They need to train. Who are you to prevent Russian troops from training on our own land, at the border of enemy beach-head aimed at SPb (Leningrad)? They have NATO bases in Estonia and Latvia, and both countries are near our borders, with NATO bombers 5 minutes of flight from SPb. Get the hell out of there first, then we'll think about our planned trainings, but we doubt we'll stop them anyway.
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
So there are no neo-nazi groups anywhere in the free world? I never heard of any marches in Riga nor should I care. Borodas statement was not about a certain march. It was a direct and hostile slanderous remark on the general population. What it did do was reveal his real standing.
MrRiplEy[H], Latvian SS "veterans" get state pensions and are officially national heros. People who dressed as concentration-camp prisoners and protested against their march this year got arrested.
Official Latvian history calls Salaspils concentration camp, where 450000 people were killed, an "educational labour facility".
Over 2/3 of the Latvian population speaks other languages the Latvian (mostly Russian), and they ban Russian schools there, directly violating European laws. They host Chechen representatives and perfofm other hostile actions now, backed up by NATO forces.
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So in essence you don't deny they were rehearsing offensive actions and the rehearsal was aimed directly against the baltic nations.
That's all I wanted to know really, thanks.
And allthough that progress in Latvia is all news to me, that hardly validates any kind of an attack on a sovereign nation.
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
So in essence you don't deny they were rehearsing offensive actions and the rehearsal was aimed directly against the baltic nations.
That's all I wanted to know really, thanks.
_I_ personally heard about this trainings from your post. I don't know anything else about it, only suggested a most probable explaination.
Building up forces between SPb and NATO members is a reasonable thing, and I 100% support it. I hope that there is a plan of a massive strike against aggressors to prevent them from using bases in "Balitc states" against Leningrad. Silly bastards don't understand that they are nothing more then a disposable material for their new masters in case of a new war. And I am 100% sure that people here will never support any usage of force outside of Russian borders.
Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
And allthough that progress in Latvia is all news to me, that hardly validates any kind of an attack on a sovereign nation.
Sorry for being too pathetic. I hope that Europe can get rid of this nazi pests using purely economical ways. As all former Sovier republics except Russia, Belorussia and Kazakhstan - this lomitrophs are bankrupt from the very beginning, they are nothing outside of the USSR that invested billions into their economics, so they can be easily strangled. The problem is that they are nessessary for NATO as a beach-head against North-West Russia.
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I thought only recently Russia was having talks about joining Nato on some level. You seem to see it as your enemy however. How come?
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What I find staggering is the concept of attacking/invading Russia.
What on earth for??
In order to garner an attack from the western nations, Russia would have to strike first... what could possibly be a motive for such a strike?
Second.. invasion? By the west? laughable. Total destruction in response to a strike or invasion on the Baltic States? Sure.. I could see western europe immolating Moscow in retaliation.. but an invasion?
Hell, invade WHAT? It'd be like 'invading and occupying brooklyn'. Who the hell would wanna do that?
Russians are incredibly paranoid, STILL it seems. The concept that anybody would ever wanna live in or 'occupy' the dump is truely laughable..
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Originally posted by Hangtime
Russians are incredibly paranoid, STILL it seems. The concept that anybody would ever wanna live in or 'occupy' the dump is truely laughable..
Hang, we get invaded from the West every 50-100 years, sometimes more often, in last 1000 years. Isn't it a reason to be a little paranoid? We had invaders in Moscow in 1612 and 1812, we had Germans in Caucasus in 1918, we had nazis on Volga in 1942. Now we have enemy forces 40km from SPb, they come closer then ever before in our history.
Now please tell me why the hell you keep moving Eastwards when we removed our forces from Europe?
What I find absolutely idiotic is a thought that USSR/Russia wants to invade US. Damn, we sleep and dream about it, we even make floating tanks to cross the ocean! It's "blue" side at our borders, not "red" side threatening the US. All we want is to be left alone, and please, don't teach us how we should live. We live here for 1500 years, and we are doing quite fine, at least when noone comes and burns all we have to the ground. I think it's simple.
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poor oppressed peace loving russians :(
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Originally posted by Furball
poor oppressed peace loving russians :(
Please tell me how many times UK invaded Russia and how many times Russia invaded UK.
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Originally posted by Boroda
Hang, we get invaded from the West every 50-100 years, sometimes more often, in last 1000 years. Isn't it a reason to be a little paranoid? We had invaders in Moscow in 1612 and 1812, we had Germans in Caucasus in 1918, we had nazis on Volga in 1942. Now we have enemy forces 40km from SPb, they come closer then ever before in our history.
Now please tell me why the hell you keep moving Eastwards when we removed our forces from Europe?
What I find absolutely idiotic is a thought that USSR/Russia wants to invade US. Damn, we sleep and dream about it, we even make floating tanks to cross the ocean! It's "blue" side at our borders, not "red" side threatening the US. All we want is to be left alone, and please, don't teach us how we should live. We live here for 1500 years, and we are doing quite fine, at least when noone comes and burns all we have to the ground. I think it's simple.
I think yer a buncha backwards paranoid cave-dwellers resentful of being forced by shame to live in mud huts. There's not a damn thing that Russia has that the west would be willing to invade you for. This is 2005, there are no hitlers or stalins or napoleons in europe that would give yer backwards drunken criminal empire a second thought.. Ukraine, Latvia, Estonia and Finland hate yer guts and would revel in an opportunity to kick some Russian tulips with NATO backing... but there will be no western invasion or occupation of yer hovels. Like I said, why bother?
You see, the west just regards you as a buncha relics from a dead failed and bankrupt empire... most of us pity your citizens, forced to bear first the yoke of communist atrocities, now the burden of corrupt former communist party apparatchiks. We do not fear you.. as an anaology, we'd rather not be the ones that have to shoot the mad dog behind the fence, only because we're not really interested in digging the hole necessary to bury it. As long as you commie salamanders stay on your side of the cage, we'll leave you alone. ;)
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True specialist in Eastern-European history.
Hang, did commies eat your grandma?
Tell me why did we suffer all that invasions? Did nazis come to save Jews from "pogroms" (see another thread)?
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Originally posted by Boroda
Official Latvian history calls Salaspils concentration camp, where 450000 people were killed, an "educational labour facility".
:rofl From what country could they have possibly learned THAT technique?
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Originally posted by Toad
:rofl From what country could they have possibly learned THAT technique?
From Nazi Germany. And with their support.
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Umm nazi Germany no longer exists. But that other option does..
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Originally posted by Boroda
True specialist in Eastern-European history.
Hang, did commies eat your grandma?
Tell me why did we suffer all that invasions? Did nazis come to save Jews from "pogroms" (see another thread)?
Why the Germans wanted yer mud huts is beyond me.. something about 'living room'. They did have the right idea though.. they burned everything first. As for the French 200 years ago.. who needs to explain a nutcase midget corsican with a french army behind him?
Now explain to me just WHAT modern Russia could have that the west would have designs upon? On the other hand, it ain't hard to figure what a resurgent commie regime in Russia would be after, now would it?
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Oh yeah... those Nazi camps...
Historians say the sneaky ole Nazis established 41 camps in Estonia, 6 in Latvia and 9 in Lithuania........ by 1953. :rofl
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Originally posted by Toad
:rofl From what country could they have possibly learned THAT technique?
Please, remind me, who was the first to invent concentration camps, Americans in Civil War or Britts in South-Africa?
Toad, making such jokes about nazi death camps you are a little over the line IMHO. It's not a joke, Latvians really called Salaspils "educational labour camp", and they printed that bloody book in Russian, to teach us "democracy" and "freedom" maybe? I thought they are taking lessons from Civilized Western Democracies, don't they?
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Umm nazi Germany no longer exists. But that other option does..
NATO isn't an "option", they are direct successors.
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Originally posted by Toad
Oh yeah... those Nazi camps...
Historians say the sneaky ole Nazis established 41 camps in Estonia, 6 in Latvia and 9 in Lithuania........ by 1953. :rofl
Statistics is availible, Baltic nationalities were no more "repressed" then any others. Number of Baltic population "repressed" was several times less then Japanese in concentration camps in the US.
Stop teaching us and mind your own business in Abu-Graib and Guantanamo please.
I am really surprised, Americans teaching Russians to be peacefull and respect other nations!
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Originally posted by Boroda
Statistics is availible, Baltic nationalities were no more "repressed" then any others. Number of Baltic population "repressed" was several times less then Japanese in concentration camps in the US.
Stop teaching us and mind your own business in Abu-Graib and Guantanamo please.
I am really surprised, Americans teaching Russians to be peacefull and respect other nations!
ROFL!
'Repressed' !! LMAO! Easier to spell in english than 'Liquidated'??
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Originally posted by Hangtime
ROFL!
'Repressed' !! LMAO! Easier to spell in english than 'Liquidated'??
If you are such a specialist in Eastern-European history, then you should know that term invented by Khruschev, "unjustified political repressions".
Hang, if we were so evil - then how someone is still left in baltic states? also pls count Latvians and Estonians who were happy to move to big Russian/Ukrainian cities out of their villages.
Again, all the numbers of "repressed" baltic population are known, and they are counted in thousands, not hundreeds of thousands. Russians suffered much more.
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Originally posted by Boroda
Toad, making such jokes about nazi death camps you are a little over the line IMHO. It's not a joke, Latvians really called Salaspils "educational labour camp", and they printed that bloody book in Russian, to teach us "democracy" and "freedom" maybe? I thought they are taking lessons from Civilized Western Democracies, don't they?
Whoa, is that true? If yes then that is as bad as the Japanese who are downplaying their atrocities in MANCHURIA, KOREA, PHILIPPINES in their history books, and the Neo Nazis in the US and abroad claiming the HOLOCAUST is nothing more than fiction.
:(
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Originally posted by Hangtime
What I find staggering is the concept of attacking/invading Russia.
What on earth for??
In order to garner an attack from the western nations, Russia would have to strike first... what could possibly be a motive for such a strike?
Second.. invasion? By the west? laughable. Total destruction in response to a strike or invasion on the Baltic States? Sure.. I could see western europe immolating Moscow in retaliation.. but an invasion?
Hell, invade WHAT? It'd be like 'invading and occupying brooklyn'. Who the hell would wanna do that?
Russians are incredibly paranoid, STILL it seems. The concept that anybody would ever wanna live in or 'occupy' the dump is truely laughable..
Hangtime, are you kidding?
During last 10 years USA attacked and invaded 3 countries: Yugoslavia, Afganistan and Iraq. Now they are actively planning attack on Iran and North Korea. None of these countries threatened or even could treaten territory of the USA or Western Europe, it was completely unprovoked strikes.
And you are asking why Russia having such agressive and unpredictable neighborhood bewares about security of its borders?
The USA don't need real reasons to attack anybody, Bush's paranoia works better than intelligence service anyway.
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Originally posted by 1K3
Whoa, is that true? If yes then that is as bad as the Japanese who are downplaying their atrocities in MANCHURIA, KOREA, PHILIPPINES in their history books, and the Neo Nazis in the US and abroad claiming the HOLOCAUST is nothing more than fiction.
:(
It is really true, no kidding. They made a "presentation" of their newest history course in Latvian embassy in Moscow...
As I said above - there were only 18 Jews left in Riga when Red Army came back in 1944. Looks like they are proud of it.
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The point of all this crap is ,it doesnt matter what you do with your free time,as long as you kiss USA's craphole you are good)
Russia is evil (does not kiss US's ars)
Nazi Bribaltika is good (as long they kiss US's ars)
Anybody but Russians allies good (as long they kiss US's ars)
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Umm Boroda who was talking about NATO? I was referring to soviets 'renaming' and 'reinventing' the history for convenience. Which you seem to, unimaginably, buy even today. Nobody else does, at least in the western civilization.
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16- All posts, in public forums, should be made in the English language.
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Originally posted by Boroda
Please, remind me, who was the first to invent concentration camps, Americans in Civil War or Britts in South-Africa?
Please remind me... who perfected it?
Who still kept up the practice long after the previous worst practitioners of it lost WW2?
Does "Gulag" ring a bell? Or is that another thing that just didn't happen in Borodaworld?
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Originally posted by Toad
Please remind me... who perfected it?
Who still kept up the practice long after the previous worst practitioners of it lost WW2?
Does "Gulag" ring a bell? Or is that another thing that just didn't happen in Borodaworld?
Toad, could you answer a simple question. Just "yes" or "no" if you please.
Who did invent concentration camps?
Were that Americans in Civil war? Yes or No, would you please.
Were that British in South Africa? Yes or No, would you please.
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So it's the typical denial of responsibility.
A russian murders a few people. He will ask: Did I invent this revolver yes or no?
ATA: If the nazis obtained a legal permit for the demonstration, the police is obliged to protect them by law (probably also in Riga). Or do you think (once again) that people who think otherwise than you should be outlawed, attacked and preferably sent to Gulags. :rolleyes:
If communists would obtain the same permit and nazis attacked them, they'd be thrown to jail. We wouldn't see any crying about that though, would we?
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IIRC the conditions of the concentration camps in the boer war improved after the public learned of the conditions by a campaigner. I can't imagine someone going against the government in russia, they would be killed.
I wouldn't call the camps in russia concentration camps, they were forced labour camps.
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Originally posted by Boroda
Did I tell you a story about NATO F-16s based in Estonia? The report was that F-16 can't reach it's top speed over Estonia. Guess why? The country is too small. :lol
...and according to the NATO agreement, Polish Air Force are now taking it's turn to protect them airspace... :D
See you guys up there? ;-)
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Originally posted by thrila
I can't imagine someone going against the government in russia, they would be killed.
...and eaten. Immediately, without salt.
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Originally posted by bikekil
...and according to the NATO agreement, Polish Air Force are now taking it's turn to protect them airspace... :D
See you guys up there? ;-)
I promise we'll warn you 3 hours before "T" hour. Is it enough to pack your planes with canned sprats and take off heading home, so noone will say we genocided 5 Polish pilots? ;) j/k ;)
BTW, what planes do you use now?
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
So it's the typical denial of responsibility.
A russian murders a few people. He will ask: Did I invent this revolver yes or no?
VAD, there's your simple answer.
:rofl
Once again I thank all the Russians that contribute such material.
This thread was great for laughs. It's like hearing great old jokes one more time.
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the british invented concentration camps during their invasion of the boers lands in order to steal the diamonds and gold of south africa. They did it after huge losses on the battlefield.
I am not aware of any concentration camps in the U.S. civil war. there were POW camps with very poor conditions tho.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
the british invented concentration camps during their invasion of the boers lands in order to steal the diamonds and gold of south africa. They did it after huge losses on the battlefield.
I am not aware of any concentration camps in the U.S. civil war. there were POW camps with very poor conditions tho.
lazs
Thanks Laz!
That's the perfect excuse for any country to continue to use concentration camps until the end of time! You da man!
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Yep... the brits were being slaughtered by the boer commando so they rounded up the families and let them die of starvation and disease..
the boer war is extremely interesting in how an armed militia could do against the finest and best trained and equiped army in the world (at the time) The brit army was no match for the boer militia.
lazs
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concentration camps
These had originally been set up for refugees whose farms had been destroyed by the British "Scorched Earth" policy (Burning down all Boer homesteads and farms). However, following Kitchener's new policy, many women and children were forcibly moved to prevent the Boers from resupplying at their homes and more camps were built and converted to prisons. This relatively new idea was essentially humane in its planning in London but ultimately proved brutal due to its lack of proper implementation. This was not the first appearance of concentration camps. The Spanish had used them in the Third Cuban War of Independence that later led to the Spanish-American War, and America used them to devastate guerilla forces during the Philippine American War. But the concentration camp system of the British was on a much larger scale.
Background
With the discovery of gold in Transvaal, thousands of British settlers streamed over the border from the Cape Colony. The city of Johannesburg sprang up as a shanty town nearly overnight as the uitlanders poured in and settled near the mines. The uitlanders rapidly outnumbered the Boers on the Rand, but remained a minority in the Transvaal as a whole. The Afrikaners, nervous and resentful of the uitlanders' presence, denied them voting rights and taxed the gold industry heavily. In response, there was pressure from the uitlanders and the British mine owners to overthrow the Boer government. In 1895, Cecil Rhodes sponsored a failed coup d'etat backed by an armed incursion, the Jameson Raid.
The failure to gain improved rights for Britons was used to justify a major military buildup in the Cape, since several key British colonial leaders favoured annexation of the Boer republics. These included the Cape Colony governor Sir Alfred Milner, British Colonial Secretary Joseph Chamberlain and mining syndicate owners (nicknamed the gold bugs) such as Alfred Beit, Barney Barnato and Lionel Phillips. Confident that the Boers would be quickly defeated, they attempted to precipitate a war.
President Martinus Steyn of the Orange Free State invited Milner and Kruger to attend a conference in Bloemfontein which started on 30 May 1899, but negotiations quickly broke down. In September 1899, Chamberlain sent an ultimatum demanding full equality for British citizens resident in Transvaal.
Kruger, sure that war was inevitable, simultaneously issued his own ultimatum prior to receiving Chamberlain's. This gave the British 48 hours to withdraw all their troops from the border of Transvaal otherwise the Transvaal, allied with the Orange Free State, would be at war with them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Boer_War
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
ATA: If the nazis obtained a legal permit for the demonstration, the police is obliged to protect them by law (probably also in Riga).
Nazis obtain a legal permit in Riga......are you listening for yourself?
Enybody is you friend as long are they against Russians,is that it?
You love Nazis now?
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Originally posted by Toad
VAD, there's your simple answer.
:rofl
Once again I thank all the Russians that contribute such material.
This thread was great for laughs. It's like hearing great old jokes one more time.
Wrong analogy, Toad, and it is clear for everybody who isn't biased.
Invention of concentration camps means "using of concentration camps", as against of invention of revolver. I can use revolver in shooting range, but nobody can use concentration camps for educational purposes.
So, British and Americans invented concentration camps and murdered a lot of people there, and they weren't punished neither legally nor morally for that. Looks like you don't feel sorry for their actions, do you? So, they are acquitted, at least in your eyes.
It is perfect excuse for everybody according case law.
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what is the death toll from American "concentration camps" again?
lazs
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Originally posted by Vad
So, British and Americans invented concentration camps and murdered a lot of people there, and they weren't punished neither legally nor morally for that.
The Spanish had camps before the Brits and Americans. :eek:
The gulags were not some pleasure resort, either. :eek:
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Nazis obtain a legal permit in Riga......are you listening for yourself?
So you're again claiming that a persons civil rights should be taken away because of his views?
While political imprisonement was daily and common in Soviet Union, this concept doesn't fall with the western ideals. Unless a country has outlawed nazism (such as Germany) they have a perfectly legal right to demonstrate just as anyone else. It has nothing to do with likeing them or not.
I have no idea of the current legislation down there but I assume they must allow participation in extreme right wing parties atm.
Extreme right wing parties were banned in Finland as a part of the peace agreement but extreme communists still have a right to exist here. IMO both kind of parties should be permanently banned - they're both fubar.
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Concentration camp
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Jump to: navigation, search
A concentration camp is a large detention center created for political opponents, aliens, specific ethnic or religious groups, civilians of a critical war-zone, or other groups of people, often during a war. The term refers to situations where the internees are persons selected for their conformance to broad criteria without judicial process, rather than having been judged as individuals. Camps for prisoners of war are usually considered separately from this category, although informally (and in some other languages) they may also be called concentration camps. The word "concentration" indicates a regional concentration, but it also implies the crowded, and often unhealthy, state of the facilities.
The Oxford English Dictionary, 2nd ed. defines concentration camp as:
a camp where non-combatants of a district are accommodated, such as those instituted by Lord Kitchener during the South African war of 1899-1902; one for the internment of political prisoners, foreign nationals, etc., esp. as organized by the Nazi regime in Germany before and during the war of 1939-45
Until Nazi Germany set up camps whose objective was either to use political opponents as forced labor (labor camps) or to kill them (extermination camps), and called them concentration camps to conceal their true purpose, the term was used relatively literally to mean simply a camp where a group of prisoners was concentrated, although conditions may have been less than ideal. Since then, no government or organization has set up camps by that particular name -- new terms being invented as euphemisms: internment camps, resettlement camps, etc.
Since the nature of Germany's so-called "concentration camps" became known (see below), the term is sometimes used propagandistically, with greater or lesser justification, to imply that a camp is designed to exterminate, rather than merely to concentrate, its inmates. For example, many of the slave-labor concentration camps were in fact used by major German corporate manufacturers (some still in existence) as cheap or free sources of factory labor.
The term is not often applied to Prisoner of war camps such as Andersonville during the American Civil War. Although large numbers of prisoners were concentrated there in horrific conditions from 1863 to 1865, and perhaps a quarter of them died, the prisoners were combatants and the camp is generally classified as a POW camp.
Early civilisations such as the Assyrians used forced resettlement of populations as a means of controlling territory, but it was not until much later that records exist of groups of civilians being concentrated into large prison camps.
In the English-speaking world, the term "concentration camp" was first used to describe camps operated by the British in South Africa during the 1899-1902 Second Boer War. Originally conceived as a form of humanitarian aid to the families whose farms had been destroyed in the fighting, the camps were later used to confine and control large numbers of civilians in areas of Boer guerilla activity. Tens of thousands of Boer civilians, and black workers from their farms, died as a result of diseases developed due to overcrowding, inadequate diets and poor sanitation. The term concentration camp was coined at this time to signify the "concentration" of a large number of people in one place, and was used to describe both the camps in South Africa (1899-1902) and those established by the Spanish to support a similar anti-insurgency campaign in Cuba (circa 1895-1898 [1]), although at least some Spanish sources disagree with the comparison [2].
Over the course of the twentieth century, the arbitrary internment of civilians by the authority of the state became more common and reached a climax with the practice of genocide in the death camps of the Nazi regime in Germany, and with the Gulag system of forced labor camps of the Soviet Union. As a result of this trend, the term concentration camp carries many of the connotations of extermination camp and is sometimes used synonymously. In technical discussion, however, it is important to understand that a concentration camp is not, by definition, always a Nazi-style death-camp.
What follows is a brief history of concentration camps established by various countries and regimes.
Ok thats about concentration camps , now why is everyone gettin upset about national armed forces perfoming an excersie?As long as they dont cross that border what business is it of ours? I mean are we to infrom the
CSA ever time we have an excercise ?dont think so.......
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No Boroda it is you who have interesting history books which spew propaganda on you. In the land Boroda Finland wouldn't have a right to imprison foreign nationals at all. That's logic I guess, knowing how peaceloving and harmless the russian population was (and is). I mean why on earth would one want to imprison them? Beats me.
Earlier we were talking about relabeling things for convenience. This is one fine example of that, courtesy of the red party.
Civillians were put to prison camps, true. There was shortage of food, true. But who told you to invade and settle our land in the first place? When the russian troops invaded karelia, what was done to the civillian population left behind? Please, I would really like to know.
Boroda doesn't seem to see a difference between a prison camp and a death camp. I guess in Soviet Union those two things were synonymes. :D
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Originally posted by Boroda
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16- All posts, in public forums, should be made in the English language.
(http://www.policescan.us/justice.gif)
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jeeez ATA that's just out of bounds!
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Originally posted by Vad
It is perfect excuse for everybody according case law.
You'll note that it is EXACTLY the excuse you use for so many Russian actions.
You'll also note that you can't find me "excusing" any concentration camps at all, in this thread or any other.
Nice try though.
Russians are still comedy gold. Without doubt the most entertaining folks on the board.
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Really the whole thing is hilarious. Russia? Who gives a rat`s patunia? In these days Russia is like the "before" picture in the old Joe Weider adds flexing muscle they can`t back up. Face it..Russia is over........done........caput ...........a pile of dinasaur bones slowly fossilizing. He`s dead Jim. :)
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Originally posted by Toad
You'll note that it is EXACTLY the excuse you use for so many Russian actions.
Toad, what are the actions you are talking about?
This is statistics of "Gulag":
Year In custody
1934 510307
1935 965742
1936 1296494
1937 1196369
1938 1881570
1939 1672438
1940 1659992
1941 1929729
1942 1777043
1943 1484182
1944 1179819
1945 1460677
1946 1703095
1947 1721543
1948 2199535
1949 2356685
1950 2561351
1951 2528146
1952 2504514
1953 2468524
It includes all - political prisoners, criminals, those who collaborated with Nazi, etc.
I just want to remind you that according to Bureau of Justice (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/prisons.htm) "on December 31, 2004 2,135,901 prisoners were held in Federal or State prisons or in local jails".
It is almost the same numbers we had in the worst years of Stalinisim.
You don't know not only the history but reality of your own country.
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Originally posted by Vad
You don't know not only the history but reality of your own country.
See?
Russian Comedy Gold.
You guys are THE BEST!
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Originally posted by ATA
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5- Flamebaiting, trolling, or posting to incite or annoy is not allowed.
I guess Finland fighting for Nazi's in WW2is cosidered to be"Flamebaiting, trolling,"
Red propaganda that is.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Really the whole thing is hilarious. Russia? Who gives a rat`s patunia? In these days Russia is like the "before" picture in the old Joe Weider adds flexing muscle they can`t back up. Face it..Russia is over........done........caput ...........a pile of dinasaur bones slowly fossilizing. He`s dead Jim. :)
Russia is 1500 years old,America is little over 200?
Come back in another 1300 years,we'll talk about it.
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Originally posted by ATA
Russia is 1500 years old,America is little over 200?
Come back in another 1300 years,we'll talk about it.
The early beginning
Tradition says the Viking Rurik came to Russia in C.E. 862 and founded the first Russian dynasty in Novgorod. The fact is that in the course of the 9th century, Viking tribes from Scandinavia moved southward into European Russia, tracing a path along the main waterway connecting the Baltic and Black Seas. The various tribes were united by the spread of Christianity in the 10th and 11th centuries; Vladimir the Saint was converted in 988. During the 11th century, the grand dukes of Kiev held such centralizing power as existed. In 1240, Kiev was destroyed by the Mongols, and the Russian territory was split into numerous smaller dukedoms. The Mongol Empire stretched across the Asian continent and Russia was put under the suzerainty of the Khanate of the Golden Horde. The next two centuries saw the rise of Moscow as a provincial capital and centre of the Christian Orthodox Church.
In the late 15th century, Duke Ivan III acquired Novgorod and Tver and threw off the Mongol yoke. Ivan IV, the Terrible (1533-84), first Muscovite tsar, is considered to have founded the Russian state. He crushed the power of rival princes and boyars (landowners), but Russia remained largely medieval until the reign of Peter the Great (1689-1725), grandson of the first Romanov tsar, Michael (1613-45). Peter made extensive reforms aimed at westernization and, through his defeat of Charles XII of Sweden at the Battle of Poltava in 1709, he extended Russia's boundaries to the west. Catherine the Great (1762-96) continued Peter's westernization program and also expanded Russian territory, acquiring the Crimea, Ukraine, and part of Poland.
http://studyrussian.com/history/history.html
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Originally posted by Toad
See?
Russian Comedy Gold.
You guys are THE BEST!
I knew that American have strange sense of humor, but I couldn't expect such a high appraisal of pure quote from your own Bureau of Justice.
Does simple finger make you laugh too?
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Originally posted by ATA
Russia is 1500 years old,America is little over 200?
Come back in another 1300 years,we'll talk about it.
I had some really old boots. I also have a pair of new ones.
The older ones had served their purpose, but were totaly worn out and useless to anyone. They were thrown away. It`s about the same with Russia. It`s done. Stick a fork in it. :rofl
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Ok... so how many of his own people did stalin kill?
And.. If not in gulags..... where did he kill em? in their beds?
What happened to the half a million german POW's from WWII? Alien abduction?
could be the reason we don't know so much about russia is the big wall you guys built around your country and all the guards at the border and the secrecy and stuff..
lazs
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There was no forced labor in Russia. Just enthusiastic people needing a bit of political re-orientation. Stalin wasn't a Russian. He's been cast from the pantheon of 'worthy' communists by the current intellegenzia. Western reports of Stalins pogroms, gulags and the starvation of the 'white' russians was merely trumped up western propaganda used to frighten thier citizens and excuse expensive arms race.
(figured I'd beat Boroda to the bull****)
*sigh*
Patton was right.
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Originally posted by lazs2
Ok... so how many of his own people did stalin kill?
And.. If not in gulags..... where did he kill em? in their beds?
What happened to the half a million german POW's from WWII? Alien abduction?
could be the reason we don't know so much about russia is the big wall you guys built around your country and all the guards at the border and the secrecy and stuff..
lazs
If you really need this information, you can find it in the Net.
http://www.thewalls.ru/truth/repress.htm (in Russian)
From 1921 to 1953 in the Soviet Union 3.777.380 were convicted, among them 642.980 to death penalty, 2.369.220 to camps and 765.180 to exiles.
This numbers don't include POWs and criminals, it includes only convictions for counterrevolutionary activites, so you can consider this numbers as pure Stalin's repressions.
Numbers I gave before includes criminals, it is total number of all prsioners excluding POWs on the 1st of January of each year.
POWs didn't included in this statisctics because they have never been in Gulag. If you need this datas I have found number 2.730.000 of POWS in Soviet captivity totally, among them 450600 died.
Death rate among those who were in Gulag, aproximatelly by years:
1931 3.03%
1932 4.40%
1933 15.94%
1934 4.26%
1935 3.62%
1936 2.48%
1937 2.79%
1938 7.83%
1939 3.79%
1940 3.28%
1941 6.93%
1942 20.74%
1943 20.27%
1944 8.84%
1945 6.66%
1946 2.58%
1947 3.72%
1949 1.20%
1950 1.00%
1951 0.96%
1952 0.80%
Add this numbers to dead.
This is numbers from archives opened in 1991. This is truth as it is.
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Originally posted by MiloMorai
The early beginning
I thought I already explained that I use a date when Kiev was found. 1500 years of Kiev was celebrated in 1982.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
I had some really old boots. I also have a pair of new ones.
The older ones had served their purpose, but were totaly worn out and useless to anyone. They were thrown away. It`s about the same with Russia. It`s done. Stick a fork in it. :rofl
Stick a fork, really, try, I don't mind.
Russia is the only country that is able of completely destroying the US of A.
So - you are welcome with a fork and knife. What? Grapes are green and sour? Really? :rofl
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
No Boroda it is you who have interesting history books which spew propaganda on you. In the land Boroda Finland wouldn't have a right to imprison foreign nationals at all. That's logic I guess, knowing how peaceloving and harmless the russian population was (and is). I mean why on earth would one want to imprison them? Beats me.
Earlier we were talking about relabeling things for convenience. This is one fine example of that, courtesy of the red party.
Civillians were put to prison camps, true. There was shortage of food, true. But who told you to invade and settle our land in the first place? When the russian troops invaded karelia, what was done to the civillian population left behind? Please, I would really like to know.
Boroda doesn't seem to see a difference between a prison camp and a death camp. I guess in Soviet Union those two things were synonymes. :D
1) AFAIK there was no "civilian population" left in Karelian Isthmus, Finns evacuated everyone, killing cows other animals that they could'n evacuate. Very wise.
2) It was Finland who invaded Soviet Karelia, moving as far as lake Onego, captured Petrozavodsk that is several hundreed km from Finnish border, and put civilians into "migrant-camps". Food problems are your problems, if you imprison innocent civilians, including kids in pre-school age - you have to feed them. Didn't they feed themselves when they were free? If you keep them locked and don't have food for them - then the purpose is to starve them.
3) Finnish POW camps had death-rate bigger then nazi concentration camps. You were guilty in violating Geneva conventions. In 1947 millions starved in USSR, kids were dieing, and every POW hold on Soviet territorry got his food ration that sometimes was two times bigger then what Soviet people had.
So - don't tell me fairy tales about Yollopukki.
I take this problem quite personally. My friend's Mother spent two years in a camp in Petrozavodsk, she was 7 years old.
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Accually China is more of a nuclear threat than Russia as china has been able to maintain there weapons and train thier crews
Sorry Russia is a nudered,Declawed,Detoothed,Caged Bear.
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Originally posted by Eagle Eye
Accually China is more of a nuclear threat than Russia as china has been able to maintain there weapons and train thier crews
Sorry Russia is a nudered,Declawed,Detoothed,Caged Bear.
China has 10 times less delivery capabilities then Russian Strategic Missile Corps. Go figure.
BTW, try wrestling with a "Declawed,Detoothed,Caged Bear". I'll send flowers to your family.
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Hmm... weird how two sites can have such different numbers.
this site says that stalin was directly responsible for the deaths of 20 million of his own people... I would say tho that if you die in prison in large numbers it is a little more than a simple prison eh?
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm
lazs
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Boroda your so full of BS. Finland lost the war - if we had violated any international laws there'd be hell to pay afterwards.
Do you have any numbers on how many finnish citizens were convicted for violating the Geneva convention?
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Originally posted by lazs2
Hmm... weird how two sites can have such different numbers.
this site says that stalin was directly responsible for the deaths of 20 million of his own people... I would say tho that if you die in prison in large numbers it is a little more than a simple prison eh?
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm
lazs
Lazs, see I try to be calm, partient and honest. If you really interesting in this subject, I'll try to give your all availabe data which you don't have because it is in Russian.
Your link confirms numbers I provided , but it called them "Lower Numbers school".
Numbers I gave you were taken from archives, and they are very precise.
The same numbers in your link:
" Dugin, A. ("Stalinizm: legendy i fakty" 1989): 642,980 counterrevolutionaries shot 1921-53. "
"Muskovsky Novosti (4 March 1990): 786,098 state prisoners shot, 1931-53." - more but this includes real criminals (murders) who were sentenced death penalty.
Death rate in prison. Yep, prison is not resourt but I don't think that 2-3% death rate is very high. If you take into consideration that used to get 25 years it means that it is life sentence. 20% in 1942-1943... ok, you are clever enough to understand why. Just want to remind you that it the same years about 1,000,000 civilians died in Leningrad siege because of starvation. 1933... you talked a lot about starvation on Ukraine, now you can see it in numbers.
Ok, now , what does it mean - "Stalin directly responicble"? Numbers I provided are actually reflection of number of sentences. They are well known, they exists in archives, you can find them. But actually even with these numbers we have some problems. It is known that total numbe of all criminal records in archive for the period of Stalin is about 9,500,000. Who was real criminals, and who was innocent? If we define "repressed" as "convicted for counterrevolutionary activites" (paragraph 58) only 3,770,000 were real victims of Stalin's regim. But somebody can state that all who were convicted during 1930-1953 are victims. It means no criminals at all! Hard to argue but hard to believe.
And the last. My numbers didn't include death which happened not in Gulag (starvations). I don't know that numbers. If you are going to add another 100,000,000 it is ok, it is up to you. But it will be just your guess. Most of the scientists from the "Large number school" calculated numbers like "population in 1929 plus average birth rate minus polulation in 1953). Average birth rate during the war? Where? In the USA? Or in Germany?
I can believe that the USSR lost 20,000,000 -50,000,000 during 1929-1953. But I don't believe that we should claim Stalin for all these deaths.
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ONLY 3.7 million people? Ok you got us convinced.. Stalin was a nice guy. :D
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
ONLY 3.7 million people? Ok you got us convinced.. Stalin was a nice guy. :D
Well it was a good start :)
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
ONLY 3.7 million people? Ok you got us convinced.. Stalin was a nice guy. :D
You don't understand my English, do you? Sorry, it is my fault. I will try again:
3,7 million were convicted, among them 642,980 were executed, other were put in camps. Approximately 10% died there (another ~300000: (3700000 - 642980) * 0.1 = ~ 300000).
According to US Bureau of Justice (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/prisons.htm) "on December 31, 2004 2,135,901 prisoners were held in Federal or State prisons or in local jails".
Could you make conclusion yourself, or you need help?
Stalin wasn't a nice guy. He was dictator, and it was acknowledged by Communist Party of the USSR in 1956.
Once again, I am sorry for my English which makes it so difficult to understand even numbers.
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Originally posted by Vad
Toad, what are the actions you are talking about?
This is statistics of "Gulag":
Year In custody
1934 510307
1935 965742
1936 1296494
1937 1196369
1938 1881570
1939 1672438
1940 1659992
1941 1929729
1942 1777043
1943 1484182
1944 1179819
1945 1460677
1946 1703095
1947 1721543
1948 2199535
1949 2356685
1950 2561351
1951 2528146
1952 2504514
1953 2468524
It includes all - political prisoners, criminals, those who collaborated with Nazi, etc.
I just want to remind you that according to Bureau of Justice (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/prisons.htm) "on December 31, 2004 2,135,901 prisoners were held in Federal or State prisons or in local jails".
It is almost the same numbers we had in the worst years of Stalinisim.
You don't know not only the history but reality of your own country.
IIRC you were lucky if you made it to the gulags.
Post the appropriate survival rates and execution rates to compare honestly ;)
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Originally posted by Vulcan
IIRC you were lucky if you made it to the gulags.
Post the appropriate survival rates and execution rates to compare honestly ;)
Already done:
Death rate in camps:
1931 3.03%
1932 4.40%
1933 15.94%
1934 4.26%
1935 3.62%
1936 2.48%
1937 2.79%
1938 7.83%
1939 3.79%
1940 3.28%
1941 6.93%
1942 20.74%
1943 20.27%
1944 8.84%
1945 6.66%
1946 2.58%
1947 3.72%
1949 1.20%
1950 1.00%
1951 0.96%
1952 0.80%
786,098 were executed.
I have published it already, but just for you. Anything else?
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Originally posted by Vad
Does simple finger make you laugh too?
From people like you it would. :)
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Don't you love stats from the guys who still deny the Soviet execution of the Poles at Katyn....after Gorbachev, Yeltsin and Putin admitted responsibility?
They will always be there for us when we need a laugh.
Again, thank you all.
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Originally posted by ATA
I guess Finland fighting for Nazi's in WW2is cosidered to be"Flamebaiting, trolling,"
Red propaganda that is.
"Finland fighting for Nazis"? That might be trolling, but have you checked your history books recently... Did Finland have any other options - Hitler's Germany or Stalin's Soviet union? After the Winter War (1939-40), which one would be the more welcome ally? Finland was fighting their own war (well, this is open to discussion, were the Finns allied or not with the Germans...) in their own front - which they stopped to the most defensible positions available (or as far as they got - Boroda has the details on this one with the number of imprisoned Karelians).
While the history is open to discussion and the leaders might have had clear decisions, I don't think the troops (whether in Finland, Germany, Britain, USA or Soviet Union) had clear vision where they were heading to. My grandfather was fighting the Soviets, and while he didn't like the peace terms (1944), he was content with his life and didn't want his grandchildren to be blinded by hatred (but I can say that he didn't have any love for the Soviets - I'm glad he lived till 1990's so he saw the start of the collapse).
So, while I don't personally have anything against the Soviet Union, or Russia, I might present negative insight about the current system in my posts (despite my grandfather's teachings I might have appeared negative - sorry about this, Boroda, Estel & Vad...) Although I have tried to post only when I'm sober and composed (not drunk, not in hatred, etc), I hope I didn't step over the line with this post (ATA's post was a bit provocative...)
edit: come fly the Combat Theater the next time Fin/Rus is on, see who will win. :)
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Originally posted by Boroda
Stick a fork, really, try, I don't mind.
Russia is the only country that is able of completely destroying the US of A.
Bwaaaaaaaaaahhaaaaaaaaaaahaaa aaaaa!!!!!!!!!
And Madonna is a virgin. :)
I would say that russia is the least possible threat , not only to the U.S., but to anyone on the entire planet than any country. He`s dead Jim. :)
Smoke and mirrors don`t play out too good any more.
I would, however, say that russia is a real and present danger to itself, as has been proven.
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Originally posted by Toad
Don't you love stats from the guys who still deny the Soviet execution of the Poles at Katyn....after Gorbachev, Yeltsin and Putin admitted responsibility?
Are you raving?
Man, this is stats from publicly accessible archives. Do you know what is it? Archive it is something very dusty, with many many things which looks like bricks. They call them books but I am not so self-confident to try to explain you what is it. As the first step it would be ok if you understand - ARCHIVES are NOT the GUYS. It is something else.
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Originally posted by Boroda
Stick a fork, really, try, I don't mind.
Russia is the only country that is able of completely destroying the US of A.
So - you are welcome with a fork and knife. What? Grapes are green and sour? Really? :rofl
Russian Strategic Forces are certainly capable of destroying the United States. You have had that capability for some forty-five years. Let’s hope that neither country is stupid enough to provoke the other.
Russia is the only country that can maintain a supply line to Space Station Freedom.
I, for one, would much rather work with you, than against you.
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Originally posted by Panzzer
"Finland fighting for Nazis"? That might be trolling, but have you checked your history books recently... Did Finland have any other options - Hitler's Germany or Stalin's Soviet union? After the Winter War (1939-40), which one would be the more welcome ally? Finland was fighting their own war (well, this is open to discussion, were the Finns allied or not with the Germans...) in their own front - which they stopped to the most defensible positions available (or as far as they got - Boroda has the details on this one with the number of imprisoned Karelians).
Yeah you right,sorry.
But there is one guy from Finland that states that waffenSS march is ok as long as it aproved by government.And it is aproved,we were talking about Riga i believe earlyer.
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I'm truthfully enjoying this thread, please don't close it.
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Originally posted by ATA
Yeah you right,sorry.
But there is one guy from Finland that states that waffenSS march is ok as long as it aproved by government.And it is aproved,we were talking about Riga i believe earlyer.
Would marching NKVD, MVD, MGB and KGB men be better?
Or red army of rapists marching in red square?
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Without even going into detal about the concept of Waffen-SS (being a military, not political unit thus having little to do with nazis / real SS)..
ATA is simply not familiar with the concept of having rights. Even the worst murderer gets police protection from angry crowds during trials etc.
But quite frankly I'm not surprised that a russian is ready to take away someones rights according to his beliefs. Hell, that's what USSR was based on.
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I don't know that I would believe any "offical" soviet records. I think that I will not blindly accept the "20 million killed" figure that has allways been around either...
I am gonna guess that the true figure lies somewhere in between the low of maybe 1,000,000 and the high of 20,000,000 or so.
lazs
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Originally posted by Staga
Would marching NKVD, MVD, MGB and KGB men be better?
Or red army of rapists marching in red square?
In memory of 29 million dead,yeah i'd say Red army deserve a march.
In memory of saved world from Nazi's i'd say yes,Red,Brit,USA army should celebrate victory over Nazi germany.
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Without even going into detal about the concept of Waffen-SS (being a military, not political unit thus having little to do with nazis / real SS)..
ATA is simply not familiar with the concept of having rights. Even the worst murderer gets police protection from angry crowds during trials etc.
I'm sorry,Waffen SS had a little to do with Nazi's hm.....
According to you "White power" of KKK should have a march on street of New York as well?
Hell,they should have rights as well,do they in Finland?
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Do some reading ATA.
http://www.feldgrau.com/ss.html
In memory of 29 million dead,yeah i'd say Red army deserve a march.
So you think that a certain number of deaths negates the effect of any attrocities and crimes against humanity? Hmm.. Didn't a few Germans die too in the war? Haven't a few KKK members died during their raids against black population?
Russian logic. :huh
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Originally posted by ATA
I'm sorry,Waffen SS had a little to do with Nazi's hm.....
According to you "White power" of KKK should have a march on street of New York as well?
:rofl :rofl (spilled coffee)
New York???
Every New York citizen from Brooklyn, Times Square, Wall Street, ect will mob 'em. There's no escape:p
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Do some reading ATA.
http://www.feldgrau.com/ss.html
So you think that a certain number of deaths negates the effect of any attrocities and crimes against humanity? Hmm.. Didn't a few Germans die too in the war? Haven't a few KKK members died during their raids against black population?
Russian logic. :huh
Didn't Germany invade half of the world?
Didn't Germany cause death of those 29million Russians only,not mentioning French,Brits Americans....and oh my God how can i forget the Jews.
Ok i'm sorry from now on i will never call WaffenSS Nazi's,they simply fashists.....
Fin's logic. :huh
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Originally posted by ATA
According to you "White power" of KKK should have a march on street of New York as well?
Hell,they should have rights as well,do they in Finland?
Don`t know what rights they have in Finland, but the KKK has marched and rallied in nearly every major city in the U.S. It is their right as long as it is done legaly.
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Originally posted by 1K3
:rofl :rofl (spilled coffee)
New York???
Every New York citizen from Brooklyn, Times Square, Wall Street, ect will mob 'em. There's no escape:p
That's is my point,that how they should be treated ....KKK,WaffenSS........fashists in general
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Didn't Russia invade half europe? Didn't Russia cause several millions of deaths directly and indirectly? Didn't Russia ally with nazi Germany in early stages of war untill Hitler broke the non agression pact?
Blah.. It's useless. Russkies see only red in roses.
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Originally posted by 1K3
:rofl :rofl (spilled coffee)
New York???
Every New York citizen from Brooklyn, Times Square, Wall Street, ect will mob 'em. There's no escape:p
Well, Brooklyn is a Russian Enclave; Times Square is Hindu and Chinese and Wall Street is empty every day by 5:00 pm.
If the KKK marched in NYC, the restruants would probably have a 1/2 price sale and the Mayor would get 'em a discount at all the nearly bankrupt hotels down by Central Park West. They'd have the best security on the march, fine prostitutes at the Javits and free tickets to the Daily Show.
Everybody would have a great time, Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson with Farrakahn standing beside him would have a lil airtime reminding us all about our unending persecution of the black man, the price of crack would spike for a coupla weeks and one or two black neighborhoods would rise in revolt and burn the korean mini-marts that are on every corner of the gehettos.
But, as long as the KKK had their permits and marched inside the police cordon, not one of the fascist pigs would have their bald heads buffed.
Yah see, yah Rooski donutwoods, here in America we do not imprison a man for having beliefs that run contrary to societies mainstream paths. It's permitted to speak out, it is permitted, even encouraged to be a dissedent. Most of us recognise that the right to freedom of speach and expression is worthwhile, and some of us have even put our lives at risk to preserve the rights of folks with opinions that run contrary to our own.. we may not like what you have to say, but some of us are willing to defend to the death your right to say it.
Of course, should I decide that some nutball is being persoally offensive or is threating my personal saftey, I can kick his bellybutton and tell a judge and jury of my peers about it afterwards... after all; its a Free Country. ;)
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Originally posted by Boroda
Deleted.
16- All posts, in public forums, should be made in the English language.
Dura lex sed lex
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Boroda you should realize that western computers can't even display cyrillic letters - some of your posts show in jibberish making it double jeopardy.
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Didn't Russia invade half europe? Didn't Russia cause several millions of deaths directly and indirectly? Didn't Russia ally with nazi Germany in early stages of war untill Hitler broke the non agression pact?
Blah.. It's useless. Russkies see only red in roses.
1) Russia didn't invade half Europe. We liberated Slavonic nations from nazis, and insisted on their national souverenity. Remember that in 1945 "allies" didn't want Poland to appear on the map again?
2) USSR and nazi Germany never fought together. Finland did. It hosted nazi troops at least since June 1941. Non-aggression pact isn't an "alliance" in any way.
3) Finland not only took back Vyborg Uyezd, that USSR got in 1940 after a failure to come to any agreement with Finland (See Tanner's "Winter War"), but invaded Soviet Karelia, occupied huge territorry and imprisoned thousands on innocent civilians only because they were not ethnic Finns or Saams.
4) Our cause was just. The enemy was defeated.
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5) Neeener Neeener Neeener.
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Boroda you should realize that western computers can't even display cyrillic letters - some of your posts show in jibberish making it double jeopardy.
Those who want can easily read Cyrillic. There are two options to choose from: KOI-8 or Windows-1251 codepage. Any modern browser can show it. I use English version of FireFox and it works OK.
Damn, 15 years ago we had something like 8 different Cyrillic encodings, it was a funny time. Trying to read a text in a GOST encoding on a PC with Bulgarian layout using "alternative" ASCII-866 was a nice everyday adventure ;)
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Do some reading ATA.
http://www.feldgrau.com/ss.html
Feldgrau. SS. Nice reading. Do you read it every evening before you go to bed?
We have seen "feldgrau" in WWI and WWII, there wasn't much difference. Oh well, Finns were not drafted in Russian Empire, and you didn't see what that "civilized Teutons" did to my country, but I don't think it's an excuse.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
5) Neeener Neeener Neeener.
???
Is it your Mi Lay battle scream? Sorry I don't remember how you called that village, Vietnamese called it Song Mi, and it's how we know it.
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So your agreement to split Poland with nazi troops wasn't fighting together? Non-agression pact wasn't a pact?
You got the part with the slavonic states almost right.. Instead of 'liberated slavonic' you should rephrase it 'enslaved independent' to get it correct. It's not a coincidence that every country you 'liberated' screams bloody murder when someone mentions Russia or russians.
Keep em coming.. it's interesting allthough repetitive.
About that feldgrau site, it was the first one I googled that explained the background of Waffen SS. Didn't even read the rest of the contents.
But now that you got my interest up, I'll read it through. :aok
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Originally posted by Boroda
Those who want can easily read Cyrillic. There are two options to choose from: KOI-8 or Windows-1251 codepage. Any modern browser can show it. I use English version of FireFox and it works OK.
Damn, 15 years ago we had something like 8 different Cyrillic encodings, it was a funny time. Trying to read a text in a GOST encoding on a PC with Bulgarian layout using "alternative" ASCII-866 was a nice everyday adventure ;)
as an atheist i would say... thanks god for UTF-8 :D
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Originally posted by lada
as an atheist i would say... thanks god for UTF-8 :D
As an atheist I'd say... Thank god that st. Cyrill and Methody didn't know about hieroglyphs!...
I think that Cyrillic is better for Slavonic languages then Latin, but they probably could choose Latin ABC as a base. Inventing an ABC with 80+ letters was insane. Peter the Great limited it to 37 letters, then bolsheviks left 33. I can read old Cyrillic but can't write it properly. Another problem is how to OCR anything printed before 1920. But it's OK compared to Tatar language, before 1925 they used Arabic ABC, then until 1938 they used Latin, and now they use Cyrillic. It means that they don't have any people who can read anything written before 1925....
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
So your agreement to split Poland with nazi troops wasn't fighting together? Non-agression pact wasn't a pact?
You got the part with the slavonic states almost right.. Instead of 'liberated slavonic' you should rephrase it 'enslaved independent' to get it correct. It's not a coincidence that every country you 'liberated' screams bloody murder when someone mentions Russia or russians.
We didn't fight Poland, we took what belonged to us according to borders approved by Western countries (see "Curzon's line"). JFYI, Polish Supreme Command issued an order not to open fire at Soviet troops.
What did we have to do? Suggestions, please. To start fighting nazis for Poland after Poland refused from Soviet help, relying on "allies" who never wanted to fight for "dirty slavs"? To leave all Poland to Hitler, leaving millions of people to suffer from nazis, and losing precious 200km of space that probably saved Moscow in 1941? "Allies" refused from agreement, we did the best we could (see Moscow negotiations in August 1939), so Stalin behaved minding Soviet interests. From this POV it was more honest then "allies" abandoning Poland that they promised to protect. BTW, why didn't "allies" declare war on USSR? Looks like you are more clever then British and French governments togther, that I doubt.
OK. War is over, on Potsdam conference "allies" want to divide Poland between other countries, USSR insists on creating independant Polish state. Sure, we wanted to enslave them and kill them all. MrRiplEy[H], you speak nonsence. Please try to use your brain instead of repeating propaganda hallucinations.
"Enslavement" of coutries of people's democracy is a lie. They had living standards much higher then USSR, and USSR had to pay their military expences, for example - Romania didn't spend any money on Warsaw Treaty activities at all, 100% was paid by USSR.
And again, look: we withdrew from Europe, and immediately NATO moves in, aimed at Russia, with bases in Pribaltika 5 minutes of flight from Leningrad and radar stations controlling all N-W Russia's airspace. Why are they here, for charity? I always ask this question and I still didn't get an answer. We _do_ have reasons to be paranoid. We maintained a buffer space for aggressors, now we abandoned it, and they are right at our doors.
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"Whether you like it or not, history is on our side. WE WILL BURY YOU!"
...Nikita Khrushchev, To Western ambassadors at reception in Moscow 17 Nov 56
Whoopsie! Bad call, enh, Boroda? Or perhaps your commie pals in the shadows are getting bored with slaughtering Checkens and wish to overthrow the mafia henchmen that operate your lil has-been 'republic' to make a grand comeback with your rusty navy and american subsidized space program to 'take back what belongs to you', like Poland and Lithiuania?
Oh, and just curious.. if it's called 'Poland' and not 'Russia', how is it again that it 'belongs to you'?
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Originally posted by Hangtime
"Whether you like it or not, history is on our side. WE WILL BURY YOU!"
...Nikita Khrushchev, To Western ambassadors at reception in Moscow 17 Nov 56
Mikita was an idiot. I thought you knew it.
Anyway, in Russian "to bury" has several meanings, he didn't mean killing you all (we really don't have enough space to bury you all).
And he was right, history is on our side. America is a bloody aggressor and international gangster, it's clear to any sane human being. So-called Soviet "crimes" are nothing compared to a terror-feast you run now. International murderers teaching us human rights is a sad nonsence.
Originally posted by Hangtime
Whoopsie! Bad call, enh, Boroda? Or perhaps your commie pals in the shadows are getting bored with slaughtering Checkens and wish to overthrow the mafia henchmen that operate your lil has-been 'republic' to make a grand comeback with your rusty navy and american subsidized space program to 'take back what belongs to you', like Poland and Lithiuania?
slaughtering whom? Do you still miss the time when you raped and murdered Vietnamese? whoopee, you killed two million people and still lost the war! Your "superior modern army" got kicked in the arse by illiterate peasants fighting for their land.
Poland is an independant country since 1945, when Western "allies" wanted it to disappear forever, while Evil Stalin (tm) insisted on creation on Polish state and gave Poland large lands from East-Germany.
Lithuania is an independant country that got almost 1/2 of it's territorry from USSR, including it's capital Vilnus. I don't think they belong to us any more. I hope they are doing fine. I also like cheap Lithuanian construction workers in Kaliningrad. They have made their choice.
Originally posted by Hangtime
Oh, and just curious.. if it's called 'Poland' and not 'Russia', how is it again that it 'belongs to you'?
Western Ukraine and Belorussia belong to Ukraine and Belorussia now. I don't understand why you ask me about it. Another part of bourgeous Poland (sorry for using this term, but I have to use different names for pre-war and modern Poland) was given to Lithuania. I don't know why you don't directly ask Lithuania to give up it's capital to Poland. I suggest you to write a letter to United Nations, Antarctic Liberation Front and League of Sexual Reforms.
JFYI: Russian Emperor was a King of Poland. Also he was a Great Prince of Finland etc.
Hang, I still think that you are able to read, go to Wiki site and read an article about Curzon's line. And please, stop hallucinating.
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See?
Russian Comedy GOLD.
You can't get tickets to a show this good anywhere else.
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Boroda you should realize that western computers can't even display cyrillic letters - some of your posts show in jibberish making it double jeopardy.
Right click-encoding-choose cyrillic...
welcome to windows 95
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Originally posted by Hangtime
"Whether you like it or not, history is on our side. WE WILL BURY YOU!"
I belive the correct translation would be
"I'll show you Mother of Kuzkin" wich was translated to "We will bury you".......
yeah realy close.
Red propaganda that was.
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And he was right, history is on our side. America is a bloody aggressor and international gangster, it's clear to any sane human being.
I was cool with this thread until I read that. We weren't the first country to invade Afghanistan you know.
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Originally posted by Toad
See?
Russian Comedy GOLD.
You can't get tickets to a show this good anywhere else.
Apparently rest of the world thinks you should take the first place(USA).
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Originally posted by *NDM*JohnnyX
I was cool with this thread until I read that. We weren't the first country to invade Afghanistan you know.
Oh please dont go there...............
Korea, Vietnam,Invasion of Dominican Republic ,Mayagüez Incident ,Lebanon,Persian Gulf War,Somali,Operation Uphold Democracy(Again you and your democracy),Bosnia and Herzegovina,Operation Infinite Reach,Kosovo War.
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yah know, I am a happy man. I lived to see the Soviet Union implode. I saw eastern european nations scramble to toss off the yoke of communist oppression at the very first opportunity (interesting how they did not 'invite' the russians to stay after Yeltsin's revolution).
Tell me about the Hungarian Revolution.
Tell me about Afganistan.
Tell me about Ukraine, Poland, Romania... and wern't those YOUR tanks we saw dashing into Coatia, 'uninvited'? Tell me about the slaughter of Chechnya.
Go ahead.. tell me about massive military and financial aid to North Korea, North Vietnam.. tell me about KAL 007; tell me about the great and powerful, benevolent and generous Soviet Union, defender of the Peoples Revolution. Tell me about the 20+ million deaths your sick sorry and demented governemnt, it's secret police and armed forces have perpetrated on the people of the world.. the strife, wars and devestation your agenda 'for peace' have rendered unto the rest of us..
Show us the greatness of your sorry-assed Soviet legacy!
The only thing you've got to show for all the death and destruction is a piteous wreck of a nation, a buncha sattelite states in open revolt and a McDonalds in Red Square.
Every time i see you guys grasp at your cracked facade of socialist lies I smile a little bigger.
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Or tell us about the indescriminate shelling and carpet bombing of Grozny.
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Don't forget the flame throwers used by Russian forces in Beslan, or the nerve gas used by police in the Moscow theatre.
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Originally posted by *NDM*JohnnyX
Or tell us about the indescriminate shelling and carpet bombing of Grozny.
Why dont you ask sitizens of Chechniya,why it started.I was in Chechniya95-96.Same reason you invade Iraq,for the very reason they invaded Chechnia.
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Originally posted by *NDM*JohnnyX
Don't forget the flame throwers used by Russian forces in Beslan, or the nerve gas used by police in the Moscow theatre.
Right they should've left terrorist alive,how can you even say that?
300 kids dead and you questioning methods to kill terorists?
Oh may be they should be humanly killed?
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Originally posted by Hangtime
Tell me about the Hungarian Revolution.
Tell me about Afganistan.
So USA can bomb the crap out of half of the world and Russia cant,
is that your point?
Red Russia does not exist but Russia is still there,and i dont think you will get to see the end of it.
They manage to survive for 1500 years(i've said it before),they will be around till the end of the world.Souldnt take long time till that happens.
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Ah, yes... Grozny. Unmitigated, unrestricted, unconsionable slaughter of a city. From this...
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/Grozny_tram.jpg)
To This:
(http://www.hro.org/editions/karta/nr22-23/foto/grozny.jpg)
Baghdad don't look anything like that, does it?
Wanna see some pictures of East Germany? Hungary? Poland? Romania?
Every place you guys 'pacify' looks alike when your done. We rebuilt western europe after WWII, handed the nations back to their peoples. Same with Japan. What did you do to eastern europe? why do they absolutey hate your guts there?
The Truth is out there. But it ain't in Russia.
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My point was that America is no more bloodthirsty warmongering gangsters then the USSR and modern Russia are. And you can bet your bottom dollar if a school here gets hijacked we WON'T go in with flame throwers. As a matter of fact, I'm not sure we even have them in inventory anymore, due to some dumb treaty we probably signed.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
Baghdad don't look anything like that, does it?
Oh nooooo,more like this......(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v676/N22/bloodied_child_3.jpg)
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Originally posted by Hangtime
why do they absolutey hate your guts there?
Wrong whole world hates USA,some of you even pretend to be Canadians when in Europe.
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Originally posted by *NDM*JohnnyX
My point was that America is no more bloodthirsty warmongering gangsters then the USSR and modern Russia are. And you can bet your bottom dollar if a school here gets hijacked we WON'T go in with flame throwers. As a matter of fact, I'm not sure we even have them in inventory anymore, due to some dumb treaty we probably signed.
I agree with you on this one,but what would you do when angry parents dig out their RPG's,ak47's and attack scool by themselvs and not listening spesial forsces and actualy ready to shoot anybody whos in their way, including SPECNAZ?
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Originally posted by ATA
Oh nooooo,more like this......(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v676/N22/bloodied_child_3.jpg)
That's cherry-picking pictures... trying to make US/UK efforts in Iraq look bad.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/Grozny_tram.jpg)
To This:
(http://www.hro.org/editions/karta/nr22-23/foto/grozny.jpg)
And this isnt?
2000 Russians from Grozniy were held and torchured for ransom before Chechnia/Russia war
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http://www.killsometime.com/video/video.asp?ID=160 (http://www.killsometime.com/video/video.asp?ID=160)
This one is funny
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"Enslavement" of coutries of people's democracy is a lie. They had living standards much higher then USSR, and USSR had to pay their military expences, for example - Romania didn't spend any money on Warsaw Treaty activities at all, 100% was paid by USSR.
Oh yes.. Funny that you should mention Romania, one of the countries who suffered the most from COMMUNIST dictatorship - a government put in place by Russia after (ahem) 'liberating' it.
Nicolae Ceausescu, 1918-1989 anyone who knows the slightest bit of history knows what this name means. At the same time the meaning of 'being liberated' by the soviets clears out too.
Boroda, you should be ashamed for your lies that deface the memory of millions tortured and murdered during Soviet 'liberation'.
If there's someone who doesn't know what I'm speaking about, Google for Ceausescu. Here's one example - and it's not for the faint of heart to read.
http://www.enzia.com/Pages/Rev4.html
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They had living standards much higher then USSR
Well I'm glad you agree on that then. Let's see a quote from the abovementioned site (and the data is accurate, made by Romanians).
These are just a few examples relating to life under the latter years of Ceausescu:
>Food
Many foodstuffs were rationed including meat, bread, sugar, and vegetable oil - despite this shortages ensured empty shelves in foodstores. Queues would immediately form whenever there was a food delivery, however poor the quality.
>Energy
Petrol was rationed and electricity consumption severely curtailed - you could only use one 40 watt bulb in a room. Only one in every three streetlamps was switched on - often less. In addition powercuts played havoc, even disrupting industry and hospitals - operating theatres would be plunged into darkness and life support machines would fail. Fuel shortages lead to ambulances not attending emergencies if the patient was over 70. Heating was minimal and gas pressure was often so low that cooking was virtually impossible.
>Birth Control
Perhaps the most appalling policies were those introduced to "boost" the population. Abortion and Contraception were abolished and all women in factories subjected to monthly gynaecological examinations to ensure that the laws were obeyed. From 1983 it became the duty of every woman to produce a minimum of 5 children. Childless and unmarried women were subjected to higher taxes whilst women producing larger numbers of offspring were declared "Heroine Mothers". The results are well known - the unwanted children of the orphanages and horrific deaths from back street abortions.
>Information
The state controlled media including the daily newspaper of the party, "Scinteia" reported in great detail on Ceausescu, glorifying him and heaping praise on his wife, continuously reporting on the great advances the country was making in all fields of industry, agriculture, science and international relations. Television was restricted to a two hour programme, the bulk of which showed Ceausescu on his various visits receiving praise from crowds of people lining the roads or attending his speeches. This was "Big Brother" and Romania was stuck in "1984". Books were published in his honour heaping praise on him with (often dubious or out of context) quotes from international press and endless photographs, commissioned paintings and poems.
History had also been rewritten, in particular Ceausescu's part in the rise of Communism. The arrest of the Iron Guard leader, Antonescu, and the switch of alliance from the axis to the allies by King Michael on 23 August 1944 became a glorious communist uprising against imperialist and fascist forces.
Even contact with visitors from the West was restricted - any contact had to be reported to the Securitate within 24 hours. Despite all of this the people were not naive, they no longer believed the propaganda. However, the hardship of life and the constant fear instilled by the Securitate made organised resistance impossible and lead to a feeling of hopelessness. When the 1989 "Revolution" finally came it was the most bloody of all the former Warsaw Pact countries - once the people saw for themselves how vulnerable Ceausescu was nothing was going to stop them from gaining their freedom. It is no surprise that it was sparked in Timisoara since the people there had long received outside information via Yugoslav and Hungarian radio and television.
Life under Ceausescu was well illustrated by Ana Blandiana's banned poem 'Totul'