Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: LePaul on December 23, 2005, 05:07:52 PM
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A came across this today....based out our other topics lately, I thought this would be a good read for others.
Article (http://www.aynrand.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=8017)
I found these paragraphs of particular interest...
It is also true that Wal-Mart pays lower wages than many unionized stores. But it must offer a market wage or risk its employees going elsewhere, and it deals with employees on a voluntary basis. Those who do not like its terms are free to do business elsewhere. This makes the company especially hated by "organized labor," such as the grocery unions. By coercively restricting the supply of labor, these unions, backed by government laws and regulations, have been able to extort wages and benefits far above those which would exist in a truly free labor market. In a free market, how many people doing relatively unskilled work would get $17-19 per hour plus full medical benefits? Unions, of course, have the right to organize and picket but not to benefit from government regulations which give them special favors. No one has the right to dictate what a company offers to pay others.
There is only one morally proper way to keep Wal-Mart out of any community: don't patronize its stores. If Wal-Mart cannot make money in a given location, it will either not move there or will close the store. So far, however, it makes money everywhere it opens a store for one simple reason: customers want to shop there. The low prices Wal-Mart offers make people wealthier. They can buy a wide range of quality goods that they could not otherwise afford and they can use the money they save for other purposes.
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Still don't know why everyone hates Wal-mart so much...It's a company making a profit using the best means available in a free-market society. Why does everyone cry foul when someone makes a buck?
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Originally posted by ASTAC
Still don't know why everyone hates Wal-mart so much...It's a company making a profit using the best means available in a free-market society. Why does everyone cry foul when someone makes a buck?
Its the lefty mantra. Anyone that makes money and doesn't "share" (aka socialism) is evil. Take Bill Gates. College drop-out. Rich. That equates evil in the lefty mind.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Its the lefty mantra. Anyone that makes money and doesn't "share" (aka socialism) is evil. Take Bill Gates. College drop-out. Rich. That equates evil in the lefty mind.
Really..Having not gotten a college degree he MUST have made a deal with Satan to get in the position he is. Gotta love the left.
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Originally posted by ASTAC
Really..Having not gotten a college degree he MUST have made a deal with Satan to get in the position he is. Gotta love the left.
Did you hear he's getting a divorce?
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His wife found out what "Microsoft" really means....
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Its the lefty mantra. Anyone that makes money and doesn't "share" (aka socialism) is evil. Take Bill Gates. College drop-out. Rich. That equates evil in the lefty mind.
With respect, that's a load of ****.
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So instead of hating Wal-Mart, hate the unions?
30 years from now, people will wish they still HAD unions. The USA wasn't exactly a happy perfect place for the working class back in the corporate glory days of the 1880's. 12-hour days, low wages, child labor, and company towns--that's what laissez-faire capitalism will get you.
I don't trust Wal-Mart, Microsoft, or ANY big corporation.
I don't hate Wal-mart, either. In specific regions they even do some good. The problem is with the market in general, not with any single company in particular.
J_A_B
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well while I frequent walmart on the occastion I did read an interesting story once about how much impact they have elsewhere.
It's not so much that they want to make a buck it's the how aggressivly they want to make said buck. That's fine with me in a free market but the impact they have on the third world can be dramatic.
An example would be when walmart wants to cut $.20 off their cost on a collared shirt. The textile mill in argentina where they are made now has to work their employees a little longer with less pay. They also have to negotiate lower prices from their suppliers who also use cheap local labor to produce the material.
I can see where it seems to some were the consumer part of walmart is consuming more than they should as they can cause suffering of the poor in third world countrys that supply walmart with goods.
BUT!
as compasionate as I am for the strife of the disgruntled poor I allways go back to the fact that it's a free market and it should take care of itself. If people don't like the fact that ADIDAS are made in South Korea by 10 year olds working 15 hours a day for pennies then they shouldnt buy them and we have the free speech in this country to protest practices that you don't see as moral or prudent.
Thus ends my rant.
In reality I hate walmart not because it MAY exploit it's workers and suppliers but because it's a 90 mile round trip to the nearest one we make it a family even to go there. It never fails that I don't leave there without having spent at least $150.
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But people are lazy. It would take a nuclear bomb from South Korea for people to voluntarily and effectively boycott Adidas.
Should we allow free market to reign to the laziness of people even for the worse part of other people?
But then again, economists know that market control and government intervention lead to insane inflation, supply problems, and horrible conditions in the end for all parties.
So which path do we persue?
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I'm not worried about Wal-Mart taking over as much as i am for dollar stores.
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Yep, WalMart is a real stand up company. They treat their workers with respect and never, ever cheat them out of their hard earned wages. :rolleyes:
AP
Jury Awards $172M to Wal-Mart Employees
Thursday December 22, 7:47 pm ET
By David Kravets, Associated Press Writer
California Jury Awards $172 Million to Wal-Mart Workers Who Claim They Were Denied Lunch Breaks
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/051222/wal_mart_lunch_breaks.html?.v=2
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/12/22/walmart.lunch.ap/index.html
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Originally posted by ASTAC
Still don't know why everyone hates Wal-mart so much...It's a company making a profit using the best means available in a free-market society. Why does everyone cry foul when someone makes a buck?
Would that "Best means available" include things like denying its employeess a lunchbreak?
Maybe people cry "foul" when there is one
Heard on the radio that Wallmart just lost the first of 6 cases against it by 6 different states for labor law violations
Also
"As of the printing of their 2005 Annual Report, Wal-Mart faced 44 wage and hour lawsuits. Major law-suits have either been won or are working their way through the legal process in states such as California, Indiana, Minnesota, New Jersey, Oregon, and Washington. [Wal-Mart Annual Report 2005]
Wal-Mart was recently ordered by courts to pay up to 120 workers in Gallup, New Mexico and 400 workers in 27 stores in Oregon for violating wage and hour laws.
In 2002, statisticians estimated Wal-Mart shortchanged its Texas workers $150 million over four years by regularly not paying them for working through their 15-minute breaks. [Sources include Associated Press, "Federal Jury Finds Wal-Mart Guilty in Overtime Pay Case," Chicago Tribune, Business 3, 12/20/03 and Steven Greenhouse, “Suits Say Wal-Mart Forces Workers to Toil Off the Clock,”
One week of time records from 25,000 employees in July 2000 found 1,371 instances of minors working too late, during school hours, or for too many hours in a day. There were 60,767 missed breaks and 15,705 lost meal times. [Steven Greenhouse, “Suits Say Wal-Mart Forces Workers to Toil Off the Clock,” New York Times, A1, 6/25/02)"
Also
"In October 2004, the United States sued Wal-mart for violating the Clean Water Act in 9 states, calling for penalties of over $3 million and changes to W-M building codes. [U.S. v. Wal-Mart Stores Inc., 2004 WL 2370700]
The United States Environmental Protection agency fined Wal-Mart $1 million, settling allegations that Wal-Mart violated the Clean Water Act with dirt discharges while building stores in Massachusetts, New Mexico, Okalahoma, and Texas. [Wal-MartLitigation.com]
The Pennsylvania Environmental Protection Department fined Wal-Mart $100,000 for polluting rivers. [Business Week, 5/31/99]
Wal-Mart was fined $765,000 for violating Florida’s petroleum storage tank laws at its automobile service centers. Wal-Mart failed to register its fuel tanks, failed to install devices that prevent overflow, did not perform monthly monitoring, lacked current technologies, and blocked state inspectors. [Associated Press, 11/18/04]
In Georgia, Wal-Mart was fined about $150,000 for water contamination. [Atlanta Journal- Constitution, 2/10/05"]"
Also
"An internal Wal-Mart audit found "extensive violations of child-labor laws and state regulations requiring time for breaks and meals.” (New York Times, 1/13/04)
One week of time records from 25,000 employees in July 2000 found 1,371 instances of minors working too late, during school hours, or for too many hours in a day. There were 60,767 missed breaks and 15,705 lost meal times. (New York Times, 1/13/04)
Wal-Mart agreed to pay $135,540 to settle child labor violation charges in January 2005 for allegedly breaking child labor laws in 24 incidents. (Wall Street Journal, 2/12/05)
Connecticut Governor M. Jodi Rell announced that the state found 11 violations in three Wal-Mart stores in the state and that 337 minors worked at the company's 32 Connecticut stores from 2003 to 2005. The probe came after the Labor Department in February said the retailer had similar violations nationwide. (Bloomberg News, 6/22/05)
Wal-Mart has also been fined $205,650 for 1,436 violations of child labor laws in Maine for the period 1995 to 1998. The settlement represents the largest number of citations as well as the largest fine ever issued by the Maine Department of Labor for child labor violations. (Bureau of Business Practice News) "
In March 2005, Wal-Mart agreed to pay $11 million to settle federal allegations it used undocumented immigrants to clean its stores. [CNN Money, “Wal-Mart pays $11m over illegal labor”, 2005]
Since 1997, federal authorities have uncovered the cases of at least 250 undocumented immigrants who were employed by janitor contracting services and hired by Wal-Mart in 21 states. Many of the janitors - from Mexico, Russia, Mongolia, Poland and a host of other nations - worked seven days or nights a week without overtime pay or injury compensation. Those who worked nights were often locked in the store until the morning. [CNN Money, “Wal-Mart pays $11m over illegal labor”, 2005]
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one heck of a lunch for 172 million
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My son worked at WalMart for less than a week. He was stocking on the overnight shift and had the audacity to ask his supervisor when break time was. She about bit his head off. "It'll be when I say it'll be". He quit. He wasn't a part of the class action, but they had it coming.
OTOH my wife is happily anticipating the opening of our first WalMart Super center. She thinks it's freakin disneyland!
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the law says that you have to give everyone a "lunch break" every 5 hours... Wall mart worked em six.... it would have cost them nothing... they saved nothing by doing that as the lunch break is not a paid one.
lazs
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I'm actually rather looking forward to the standard of living in the US dropping down to say, African or Asian levels.
Eventually that will happen, and once it does, oh boy! Jobs!!!
Morons.
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Originally posted by Urchin
I'm actually rather looking forward to the standard of living in the US dropping down to say, African or Asian levels.
Eventually that will happen, and once it does, oh boy! Jobs!!!
Morons.
this is all a big conspiracy to make jobs that illegals would take un-attractive.;) :noid
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1. I'm a capitalist.
2. I don't like Wal-Mart.
Not because of some dumb straw man argument about leftys and sharing and a communist paradise.
I don't like it because the merchandise at Wal-Mart is of low quality and creates a sense of false economy. The FTC issued a report earlier this year about how the significantly lower quality of products sold at Wal-Mart end up not actually saving the customer money in the long run because of the replacement work.
"But Chairboy", you snivel, "eh, it's all the same brands I love!" Yeah, but the stuff that goes to Wal-Mart is usually constructed/made differently to meet the aggressive pricing requirements. "But CHAIRBOY," you shout, spittle flying from your gums as they flap around in your mouth like an oil soaked seagull trying to escape the mouth of a crocodile, "Wal-Mart lets me feel WEALTHY as I purchase my SUNY brand CD player dancing Santa!" Stuff does not equal wealth. A Wal-Mart house is a house that ends up full of broken or unused plastic crap.
My wife shops at Wal-Mart, and it drives me nuts. She bought a computer desk there made of particle board from trees that must have been in the hospice section of the forest. Look at it funny, and it cracks, releasing a cloud of dried epoxy dust. It's the only desk I've ever seen where a piece of cardboard is load-bearing.
She made us go in there last night to get some picture frames. As we walked in the front door, she curled her nose and said "ooh lovely, I just walked into a fart". Well, as usual, the smell didn't go away because this Wal-Mart, like others, has the 'fug' that they all acquire after being open a year.
Some day, we'll all work for Wal-Mart. All the other companies will be gone, and we'll all be "associates" with snappy blue vests, welcoming our foreign tourist overlords and hoping the boss doesn't find out we're not baptist.
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I hate going into a Walmart, and rarely do, because they are a freaking zoo and they sell cheap stuff. I hate crowds and stupid people just wandering around and blocking isles.
When I go to a store I usually know just what I want, where it's at and I just want to get in and get the hell out. Walmarts, Big Kmarts and Targets just drive me nutz.
Other than the shopping experience, I have nothing against Walmart.
Did you guys know that Walmart is now the largest grocer in the US? I couldn't believe it when I heard that. They have something like an average 12% lower prices than other chains.
They basically just put Albertson's out of business, with the help of Albertson's union workers going on strike. Now those same workers that cried for higher wages just helped take down their own jobs and will probably wind up at Walmart making less money.
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Originally posted by NUKE
I hate going into a Walmart, and rarely do, because they are a freaking zoo and they sell cheap stuff. I hate crowds and stupid people just wandering around and blocking isles.
When I go to a store I usually know just what I want, where it's at and I just want to get in and get the hell out. Walmarts, Big Kmarts and Targets just drive me nutz.
Other than the shopping experience, I have nothing against Walmart.
Did you guys know that Walmart is now the largest grocer in the US? I couldn't believe it when I heard that. They have something like an average 12% lower prices than other chains.
They basically just put Albertson's out of business, with the help of Albertson's union workers going on strike. Now those same workers that cried for higher wages just helped take down their own jobs and will probably wind up at Walmart making less money.
very true.
But, I actually like target. Most target stores that I've been to are usually very clean and have good people working for them. Stuff may be a little bit more than at walmart but I don't mind paying extra for a clean store that is well stocked.
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Originally posted by NUKE
I
When I go to a store I usually know just what I want, where it's at and I just want to get in and get the hell out. Walmarts, Big Kmarts and Targets just drive me nutz.
They are all the same....ever noticed you can find the EXACT same item with a different name on the box at all 3 stores? They all get their stuff from the same factory somewhere overseas.
Maybe Wal-mart treats their employees badly...of course the employees have a choice not to work there.
I'm sure this not the wal-mart that Sam Walton had in mind though. Ever notice the big changes after he keeled over?
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Did you guys know that Walmart is now the largest grocer in the US? I couldn't believe it when I heard that. They have something like an average 12% lower prices than other chains.
I call BS. I've never been in a Wal Mart that ever ever ever had any grocery price lower than Giant or Genuardis.
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Walmart doesn't bother me at all. It appears to me that our society is functioning perfectly in addressing issues that the Walmart employees have. I don't think anyone should be surprised that corporations are amoral, btw.
Fact is, since I found out that Walmart cheaper on a lot name brand things I buy, I go there.
Unions are increasingly irrelevant in my life, at least. And I pay an unGodly sum per month, for nothing. (more like insurance than anything else, because I am able to rely on my performance)
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Cheat your employees and they will cheat you:lol I remember while I was working my way through college I was making 7 bucks an hour at a lumber yard working my butt off. I got a last minute order and had to load $2000 worth of lumber after hours. When I went to clock out, I found my boss had already clocked me out just prior to making an extra 15 minutes overtime. A measly 2 bucks for a multimillion dollar company. He said I should have been done already. From that day on, I cut up as much of the most expensive wood I could and threw it away on a daily basis. I estimate that 2 dollar savings by that boss cost the company 10,000 by the time it was all over. Any time I get a bonus as a crew leader I share it with all my guys equally. If they get thier work done before 8 hours, they go home and get paid for 8. I have no problems at all with my crew. We are always the best in our company.