Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: StSanta on April 13, 2001, 05:44:00 PM
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Man that guy was close. Under and in between two engines.
Wobbling like a heavy P47s, flaps out at 250. heard the US crew comment on it.
This was definitely not the US planes fault.
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Von Santa
Staffelkapitän 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"
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We know it wasn't the US plane's fault, Santa.
Mirror-signal-manoever proabably doesn't work up there, especially when you've got some hero trying to mate with your plane. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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is it available on the web, or do I need to watch TV?
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Thee chinese seem to want the 8 and the P-3 to screw almost as bad as their pandas (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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dang i saw the video today finally..man he was so close you culd almost read the serial number on whatever outdated looking missles he was carrying..
He also made several passes where he would "thump" the plane with he exhaust..yea wang screwed up pretty bad...
Given the methods of "diciplin" the Chinese have for screwups..especally thos costing expensive aircraft..if Wang had survived and landed, he probably wouldent have lived very long any way...in fact he probably had the easy way out....but then i wont be suprised if his wife and kids vanished soon either..
the EP-3 was about as at fault as a house who has a car jump the curb and slams into it...
[This message has been edited by TheWobble (edited 04-14-2001).]
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If you're speaking about the vid where he gets within 20 feet, his wings are wobbling and the pilot struggles at the slow speed, this video is from a January encounter and not the collision.
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Yea i know sandman, but that really goes to show how and more importantly WHY the "accident" happened..
The Chi-coms saying that it was the US's fault in the face of such obvious and clear cut evidence is really making an bellybutton of it self...
I guess the only difference is that unlike with their own citizens they cant murder us for knowing what really happened.
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Well, the Chinese had 11 days to put out their version.
Here's a link to Secretary of Defense briefing:
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Apr2001/t04132001_t0413ep3.html (http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Apr2001/t04132001_t0413ep3.html)
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Heh Toad speaking of Chinese version, watched their local broadcast last night, and checked people's daily today, funny there is no mention whatsoever of any film footage eh?
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Fatty,
I'm sure it was just an oversight. I'm sure they'll be showing the film and explaining to their nation that straight ahead rejoins with 200 knots of overtake and stopping right between engines 1 & 2 are the standard ICAO intercept procedures. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Come to think of it the "Blame America First" lobby around here has been pretty quiet as well. Maybe they missed the Rumsfield briefing and video too?
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I was rather offened that the Ep-3 was taking the blame. It would seem obvious, yet somehow the people of China believed the USA was at fault. My first thought was that maybe the average citizen didn't understand the international airspace agreement and felt that surveylance "spying" was just unfair and that by being there that it was USA's fault. However, this is just the beginning of what could be some rought contacts between China and the USA in future. What amazes me is that several years ago China had sea exercises off Taiwan which closed Taiwans major ports for days. The result was a stock market down turn felt around the world.
RASTER
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that maybe the average citizen didn't understand the international airspace agreement
Actually the average citizen is so brainwashed by the gov that they will believe anything...especally considering the alternative.
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Wobble-
How many "average Chinese" do you know?
Just curious.
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Well Kieren one doesent have to know and chinese to see that most blindly believe whatever theie "goverment" tell them.
Have you seen any of the things they put in Chinese kids school books about the US?? they are raised:
A: to hate the US and all it stands for.
B: to have unwavering unquestioning blind faith in everything the Gov says and does.
I ll dig some of it up for ya and you will se what im talking about.
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Does it occur to you that you might be a victim of the same type of propaganda system? Not saying you are, and I dearly love my country, but surely you must realize there is manipulation of the masses through our media too, right?
Me, I never met a Chinese communist, nor a Russian one for that matter. Still, I am pretty sure the average Russian and Chinese is a pretty decent fellow. I can't back that up, of course.
Point is our government lies to us, too. We fall for it occasionally- some more than others. Don't think any country has the market cornered on propaganda. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Ahh here we go....
- The villagers rushed to the scene with clubs in hand, and shouting, "Let Us Knock Down American Imperialist Wolves!" (a Language Textbook for the 2nd graders in elementary schools).
- The American Imperialist Wolves" who are trying to trick poor and hungry children into becoming guinea pigs for biological weapons .... (a Language Textbook for 4th graders in elementary schools
- When we aim with our one eye closed, we can make Yankees go to pieces (a Music Textbook for 3rd graders in elementary schools).
- The American imperialists are the most vicious and shameless plunderers of the modern age, and the first-class common enemy of the world. (a Geography Textbook for 4th graders in senior high schools).
EDIT: but surely you must realize there is manipulation of the masses through our media too, right?
I dont recall seeing any toejam like this about China or anywhere when I was in 2nd grade......at least we are not programed from childhood on to want to kill other people just because they are from a given country.
[This message has been edited by TheWobble (edited 04-15-2001).]
[This message has been edited by TheWobble (edited 04-15-2001).]
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Really?
I was raised to hate communists and communism. I grew up during Viet Nam (issue of the war was spread of communism, btw), I studied about Sen. Joe McCarthy in high school history, heck, I even got to see how evil communism was through useful movies like "Rambo". What is your stereotypical protrayal of a communist, btw? Did you see Red Dawn? Does that come close? (BTW, did you know who the Klingons represented in the old "Star Trek" television series? Wanna guess who the Romulans were?)
Now, I am as against communism as the next person, but what I am not against is the average Chinese or Russian citizen. You come across pretty strongly on the stereotypes, and I am only suggesting you think about what you are saying WRT the people of China.
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I grew up during Viet Nam
there is the difference..you grew up during a war..it is only natural to have some sort of hate the enemy you are at war with....these things in CHILDRENS school books have been in there for a long tima..and still are...even though (until recently) there has been relative peace...
And making movies that slam a country or people while being bad is nothing compared to putting it into CHILDRENS SCHOOLBOOKS...children see things in their books as facts..the way things are..not the way they see movies...when they see americans are evil and want to kill them in there THAT IS THE WAY IT IS to them...cmon their 2nd graders....for gods sake..being taught right next to math that the Americans All want to kill and torture them.
seeing someone depicted is bad or evil in a movies is pretty tame compared to being TAUGHT that a country or people are all evil and want to kill you as part of school curriculum.
lets reverse tables here...
what woule effect your view of commies more?
A: seeing them depicted as enemies and bad guys in a movie(s).
B: being taught in school that it is a fact that China wants to test biological weapons on you and that it is your duty to kill them....
portreying somebody as an enemy in a movie is one thing...but TEACHING that they are evil and want to kill you, and that you should kill them is definatly another...
they have school songs whose themes are how to kill Americans....cmon...and they dont make any attempt at hiding it either...
I dont remember singing .. Puff the Majic Gook shooter
(BTW, did you know who the Klingons represented in the old "Star Trek" television series? Wanna guess who the Romulans were?)
Wierd, i never though of that... hehe
now i want to watch star trek just to look for that stuff.....good point.
[This message has been edited by TheWobble (edited 04-15-2001).]
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there is the difference..you grew up during a war..
Technically, wasn't it was a police action?
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Technically, wasn't it was a police action?
it was at first..but not after the first 8 months or so it developed into a limited war (meaning the americans were limited, not the cong)
besides..you never hear of the Vietnam Police Action do ya?
[This message has been edited by TheWobble (edited 04-15-2001).]
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No, young grasshoppers.
What is now known as "the Korean War" initially was called a UN "Police Action".
What is now known as "the VietNam War" actually has it origins in the attempt of the French to reassert their right to VietNam as a colony just after WW2.
Somewhere in this O'Club I did a reasonable timeline of the events there. If you're interested, I'm sure you can find it.
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You're right, Toad, but the US involvement was a result of the Kennedy concept of containment.
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Originally posted by TheWobble:
it was at first..but not after the first 8 months or so it developed into a limited war (meaning the americans were limited, not the cong)
besides..you never hear of the Vietnam Police Action do ya?
Naw... they typically call it the VietNam Conflict. The guys that were there... they know... it was a war. No matter what the Congress or President sign... they know.
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Kieran, I think it depends solely on where one chooses to draw the "US Involvement" line.
"July 1945 - Following the defeat of Nazi Germany, World War II Allies including the U.S., Britain, and Soviet Union, hold the Potsdam Conference in Germany to plan the post-war world. Vietnam is considered a minor item on the agenda.
In order to disarm the Japanese in Vietnam, the Allies divide the country in half at the 16th parallel. Chinese Nationalists will move in and disarm the Japanese north of the parallel while the British will move in and do the same in the south.
During the conference, representatives from France request the return of all French pre-war colonies in Southeast Asia (Indochina). Their request is granted. Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia will once again become French colonies following the removal of the Japanese."
Looks to me like the major powers at Potsdam set the stage. We were involved in that, along with the Soviet Union and Great Britain.
Or, you could use this point:
"July 26, 1950 - United States military involvement in Vietnam begins as President Harry Truman authorizes $15 million in military aid to the French.
American military advisors will accompany the flow of U.S. tanks, planes, artillery and other supplies to Vietnam. Over the next four years, the U.S. will spend $3 Billion on the French war and by 1954 will provide 80 percent of all war supplies used by the French."
Or, maybe this one?
"12 Feb 55 - President Eisenhower's administration sends the first U.S. advisers to South Vietnam to train the South Vietnamese Army"
Yet another?
"May 1961 - President Kennedy sends 400 American Green Beret 'Special Advisors' to South Vietnam to train South Vietnamese soldiers in methods of 'counter-insurgency' in the fight against Viet Cong guerrillas."
The hole that sunk the boat?
"November 22, 1963 - President John F. Kennedy is assassinated in Dallas. Lyndon B. Johnson is sworn in as the 36th U.S. President. He is the fourth President coping with Vietnam and will oversee massive escalation of the war while utilizing many of the same policy advisors who served Kennedy.
November 24, 1963 - President Johnson declares he will not "lose Vietnam" during a meeting with Ambassador Lodge in Washington."
Personally, I see the root cause at Potsdam. When the three "great powers" allowed the concept of colonialism to resurrect itself the die was cast. We've paid for that.