Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: SirLoin on December 25, 2005, 06:18:38 AM
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Toyota Canada just gave the bone to it's employees in Alliston Ont recently.After the CAW canvassed their plant,Toyota promised better job security,benifits and weekends off.
After the CAW lost in a close vote and moved on elsewhere...Toyota announces it's new work schedule for line workers.
Monday to Thursday..9 hours
Friday....................... .8 hours
Saturday...................4 hours(madnatory)...asked to stay for 8
Shoulda signed your union cards dummies.
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I'd just quit.
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No OT in canada ?
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48 hours is the max an employer can make u work...8 hours too much imho.
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Originally posted by SirLoin
48 hours is the max an employer can make u work...8 hours too much imho.
WOW...In missouri USA, there is absolutely no overtime limitations. They can make me work 24 hours a day 7 days a week, if it were not for the union. Anheuser Busch wrote that one:furious
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For banker`s hours you usualy have to become a banker. :)
Just curious, but what does the union have to do with it? Are you saying the union would have gotten the weekends off? Must be different there than here. I would think the union would have been pressing for more overtime hours to be made available if anything.
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Originally posted by SirLoin
48 hours is the max an employer can make u work...8 hours too much imho.
I was going to buy my daughter a new Cambry for Christmas, but after noticeing the big red Mapleleaf inside the door jam on all the cars at our dealer here in Daytona, I bought her a Pontiac G6. Thanks to a few Loud Mouth politicians in Canada. I did get a little satisfaction in sending them my own small response to their diatribes. The salesman was a little upset that he lost the sale for that reason. I wonder how many more are doing the same as me. You may be working less than 40 hours if many more are doing the same thing I did.
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Honda has a plant in Alliston. If there is a Toyota plant then it is pretty tiny since I fly over Alliston all the time and have never seen it.
I think this story is bogus.
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mmm... onion *drool*
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Bah ... didn't GM had a firebird plant in Canada in the 70s?
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The Firebird plant was in Quebec and was closed. It really pissed off the Quebec government at the time.
I believe the Toyota plant is in Cambridge, but that part of Ontario is not really a union type of place.
Honda makes cars in Alliston. GM make cars in Oshawa and Windsor and has plants scattered around in places like St Catherines.
Ford has a major operation (the minivan plant) in Oakville.
Chrysler has plants around including Windsor for minivans.
And Magna world headquarters is in my hometown of Aurora.
Southern Ontario makes more cars than anywhere except Michigan.
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Originally posted by SirLoin
Toyota Canada just gave the bone to it's employees in Alliston Ont recently.After the CAW canvassed their plant,Toyota promised better job security,benifits and weekends off.
After the CAW lost in a close vote and moved on elsewhere...Toyota announces it's new work schedule for line workers.
Monday to Thursday..9 hours
Friday....................... .8 hours
Saturday...................4 hours(madnatory)...asked to stay for 8
Shoulda signed your union cards dummies.
so do you think they made these changes because they want to "screw the worker" or that maybe that's necesary for production.
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Originally posted by SirLoin
Toyota Canada just gave the bone to it's employees in Alliston Ont recently.After the CAW canvassed their plant,Toyota promised better job security,benifits and weekends off.
After the CAW lost in a close vote and moved on elsewhere...Toyota announces it's new work schedule for line workers.
Monday to Thursday..9 hours
Friday....................... .8 hours
Saturday...................4 hours(madnatory)...asked to stay for 8
Shoulda signed your union cards dummies.
As opposed to what? UAW style wage and pension agreements that would drive Toyota bankrupt and force it to lay opf 30,000 workers like ford and GM are doing now.
UAW work schedule:
Monday to Thursday.. 9 hours in unemplyment line
Friday....................... .. drinking at pub, still no work
Saturday.................... drinking at home
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I wonder how much they took off those executive salaries as a cost of being competitive.
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I'm going to open a new fake grass outlet. I require that employees work 7 days a week, 9 hours a day minimum and I pay only minimum wage + overtime, with no raises ever.
Guess who decides if this is fair?
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Originally posted by NUKE
I'm going to open a new fake grass outlet. I require that employees work 7 days a week, 9 hours a day minimum and I pay only minimum wage + overtime, with no raises ever.
Guess who decides if this is fair?
Concerned liberals?
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The idiots who accept that and work for me.
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Yo habla espanol jefe?
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Originally posted by Booz
I wonder how much they took off those executive salaries as a cost of being competitive.
maybe the executives have a better "union"
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Originally posted by WhiteHawk
WOW...In missouri USA, there is absolutely no overtime limitations. They can make me work 24 hours a day 7 days a week, if it were not for the union. Anheuser Busch wrote that one:furious
Thought the 40 hour work week was a national labor law thing
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Thought the 40 hour work week was a national labor law thing
You poor misinformed soul.
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WOW...In missouri USA, there is absolutely no overtime limitations. They can make me work 24 hours a day 7 days a week, if it were not for the union. Anheuser Busch wrote that one:furious
last time I was in St' Lous - I almost got my arse kicked by a drunken vet at a bar when I ordered a Miller lite...lol
I played dumb and used the "I'm with the band" line....
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Originally posted by NUKE
I'm going to open a new fake grass outlet. I require that employees work 7 days a week, 9 hours a day minimum and I pay only minimum wage + overtime, with no raises ever.
Guess who decides if this is fair?
So nuke, what happens if all the employers in your area decide to do that?
Still think there wouldnt be any workers?
How about all the employers in the country?
What if we just said "Ah ****it, lets go with a WORLD ECONOMY" and said all the employers in the WORLD!.
So what happens then?
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Originally posted by Urchin
So nuke, what happens if all the employers in your area decide to do that?
Still think there wouldnt be any workers?
How about all the employers in the country?
What if we just said "Ah ****it, lets go with a WORLD ECONOMY" and said all the employers in the WORLD!.
So what happens then?
There there Urchin, here's a boss for you...
(http://members.surfeu.at/horvath/iwan2.jpg)
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let's see... at current exchange rates, 48 hours Canadian is about 40 hours American...
What's the problem?
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get it right GRUN :
(http://www.andrew.com/access/0202/images/shanghai5.jpg)
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Story is true i just got location mixed up with Honda's.
Germany has labour laws that limit a work week to 38 hours i believe.That would be the right direction to go.
and MrSod,if you want more production hire more people..working people into the ground(56+ hours a week) may make your shareholders money,but it's counterproductive for the workforce who have no time for family and are sure to get burnedout/injured.
But then you just let them go i guess eh?..Never have to pay out for pensions and shareholders get richer...that is your point no doubt.
If your not protected by a collective agreement you're screwed if you want to spend time with yer family.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
I would think the union would have been pressing for more overtime hours to be made available if anything.
No a union generally pushes for less overtime(limits anyway) so companies will hire more people.(generates more union dues)
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Thought the 40 hour work week was a national labor law thing
Its time and a half after 40 hours. No maximum legal limit on total hours in the state of missouri. Ive been scheduled for 84 hours per week for 9 months consecutive, before I had enough seniority to get every other sunday off. If it werent for the unions, I would still be working 12 hours per day every day, or I most certainly would have quit by now. The money is good, but the toll on family is heavy. I have it quite a bit better now, but that can cahnge at any time.
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BTW, for those of you Union Haters who are enjoying Health Benefits, paid vacations and holidays and sick days. These were unheard of before the Unions fought for and won these consessions from corporations. If you are hired into a Union shop as middle management, their benifit package and wages are closely tied to the union workers. as the workers wage and benifits go down, and they are going to in the coming years, so goes down the middle management and this will gradually work its way up the ladder. The free worker thoery workds both ways, no company in todays USA is forced to employ Union labor. No company is forced to ratify a contract. In nearly all cases, Union/company relationship helps both. If it does not, then the company forces the Union out and is justified in doing so. For those using ford and Gm as examples of bad union business, you are short sighted, the major cause of this is not the wages that a car maker is being paid, it is the cost of health care. This is not the workers fault or the companys fault. It is the skyrocketing cost of health care. The workers at ford and GM are making huge concessions in a cooperative effort to try to pull out of it. If you really want to get down to it, the inablilty of GM and Ford to compete in todays auto industry is more managements responsiblilty than any body elses. Peopel arent buying hondas and toyotas because they cost so much less due to cheap labor. They are building better cars that fit todays world.
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Deleted.
4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.
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Yes, by all means, sign those union cards. That way Toyota will just close the plant, and you'll be completely jobless. Like those Ford and GM workers, with some Chrysler workers to soon follow. Those Japanese companies are well known for just closing down when the employees vote in a union. When your manufacturing jobs go overseas I hope your union management enjoys your pension benefits.
Time to wake up to simple economics. You cannot pay people $40hr+ to make a product you sell to people who make less than $20 an hour.
Major corporations employ a minimal amount of people compared to the average small business. You cannot pay a tiny fraction of the population incredible wages and expect the rest of the population to buy those products. The rest of the people cannot afford them. A new truck costs 1/3 what a new house does. A big truck like a dooley costs nearly as much as I paid for my house 10 years ago. I could REALLY use a new dooley, but I cannot afford to pay a higher payment than my HOUSE payment. No new dooley for me.
Production costs continue to explode and productivity continues to plummet. And union workers want MORE money, and MORE benefits. They want FAR more than the average worker, and the VAST majority of them are for all intents and puproses unskilled. They install parts that skilled operators manufacture. Paying people THREE TIMES as much to do basic simple assembly of parts is absurd.
When unions drive manufacturing overseas, their dues paying members will have no one to blame but themselves.
Management is just as guilty, with all the useless hangers on they keep. The vast majority of those idiots only contribute to poorer products and higher costs. Those idiot engineers that get hired because they are a friend or family, and needed the job because they can't get a job on the competitive market are no better than those bloodsucking union executives.
Oh, and all that health insurance and crap came from WWII, not unions. With WAGE freezes in effect in WWII, companies couldn't offer more money, so they offered benefits.
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Urchin, obviously Communism has proven itself to be the answer time and time again!
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Yes, by all means, sign those union cards. That way Toyota will just close the plant, and you'll be completely jobless. Like those Ford and GM workers, with some Chrysler workers to soon follow. Those Japanese companies are well known for just closing down when the employees vote in a union. When your manufacturing jobs go overseas I hope your union management enjoys your pension benefits.
Time to wake up to simple economics. You cannot pay people $40hr+ to make a product you sell to people who make less than $20 an hour.
Major corporations employ a minimal amount of people compared to the average small business. You cannot pay a tiny fraction of the population incredible wages and expect the rest of the population to buy those products. The rest of the people cannot afford them. A new truck costs 1/3 what a new house does. A big truck like a dooley costs nearly as much as I paid for my house 10 years ago. I could REALLY use a new dooley, but I cannot afford to pay a higher payment than my HOUSE payment. No new dooley for me.
Production costs continue to explode and productivity continues to plummet. And union workers want MORE money, and MORE benefits. They want FAR more than the average worker, and the VAST majority of them are for all intents and puproses unskilled. They install parts that skilled operators manufacture. Paying people THREE TIMES as much to do basic simple assembly of parts is absurd.
When unions drive manufacturing overseas, their dues paying members will have no one to blame but themselves.
Management is just as guilty, with all the useless hangers on they keep. The vast majority of those idiots only contribute to poorer products and higher costs. Those idiot engineers that get hired because they are a friend or family, and needed the job because they can't get a job on the competitive market are no better than those bloodsucking union executives.
Oh, and all that health insurance and crap came from WWII, not unions. With WAGE freezes in effect in WWII, companies couldn't offer more money, so they offered benefits.
CPT Hilts, I Usually dont even shop for forign cars because I belong to the International brotherhood of teamsters. I always shop big 3 USA made stuff. Union Made. Did I pay more for my ford taurus than I would have a comparable forign made car?
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Originally posted by SirLoin
No a union generally pushes for less overtime(limits anyway) so companies will hire more people.(generates more union dues)
Like I said, it must be different there. Every place I was ever around that was union was always pushing for more overtime to be made available. The wife worked 12 years at a company that the union was trying to get a foot hold in. Never happned and they gave up the ghost. When this happened , pay increased as did working conditions in general.
I ,personaly, only went to one union meeting and that was waaaaay back there. It was a totlay hilarious circle jerk. A few drunks (one with a cigar in his mouth passed out drooling on hisself and snoring:)), the rest seemed brain dead, including union officials. That was it for me. I told em to stuff it.
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Originally posted by WhiteHawk
CPT Hilts, I Usually dont even shop for forign cars because I belong to the International brotherhood of teamsters. I always shop big 3 USA made stuff. Union Made. Did I pay more for my ford taurus than I would have a comparable forign made car?
I was a dues paying member of IBofT local 480 almost 25 years ago. The fabulous bunch of idiots managed to put McLean out of business, costing my father and I good jobs.
If I had a nickel for every time some union dirtbag told me "hey, slow down, you're making us look bad" or got in my way of doing my job, I could pay for my freaking house in CASH.
Unions are EVERY BIT as bad as the management they go up against. And every bit as stupid. If either group thinks they'll be able to continue they way they're going, they'll be extinct in less than a couple of decades, and deservedly so.
There is no comparable foreign car, except maybe a Yugo. Never worked on a Taurus yet that wasn't a smoldering pile of dog crap. Among the worst engines and transmissions on the planet. Much as I prefer U.S. made cars (though the Toyota Camry is U.S. made) the Japanese cars in the Taurus class are superior in every way, and a far better value for the dollar.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
I was a dues paying member of IBofT local 480 almost 25 years ago. The fabulous bunch of idiots managed to put McLean out of business, costing my father and I good jobs.
If I had a nickel for every time some union dirtbag told me "hey, slow down, you're making us look bad" or got in my way of doing my job, I could pay for my freaking house in CASH.
Unions are EVERY BIT as bad as the management they go up against. And every bit as stupid. If either group thinks they'll be able to continue they way they're going, they'll be extinct in less than a couple of decades, and deservedly so.
There is no comparable foreign car, except maybe a Yugo. Never worked on a Taurus yet that wasn't a smoldering pile of dog crap. Among the worst engines and transmissions on the planet. Much as I prefer U.S. made cars (though the Toyota Camry is U.S. made) the Japanese cars in the Taurus class are superior in every way, and a far better value for the dollar.
Ford engineers are non Union. McLean should never have agreed to a contract that prevents the business from operating successfully. Would your father and you have lost good jobs if the Union hadnt created them? It is a popular myth that corporations are forced to allow unions to run the business, in fact, unions lay a contract on the table that says, 'we will not supply your plant with labor unless these conditions are met.' The company can refuse or accept. Strikes these days are no deterrent to a company who can replace them permanantly and immediatly, which is any US company. In most cases, the decision for a company to move oversees is a combination of things. Cheap labor is one of them, no national labor laws is another, i.e. if you get mangled on the job, tuff luck. When you get old and brittle, see you later, if you dont polish my knob before your shift every day, you get the worst job with the least pay. Also, the relaxed environmental restrictions, pensions, no OSHA, no wages and hours division, no labor board, no discrimination or harassment. So, the unions are just the first line of defense against a free-for-all low bidder labor auction that would resort to massive insourcing of cheap mexican and chinese labor and resort in a dramatic decrease in the living standard of Many americans. I have no doubt, although I could be wrong, that most US companies would employ gulag conditions if the law permitted it. As was the case before the Unions.
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Strikes these days are no deterrent to a company who can replace them permanantly and immediatly, which is any US company.
That is ABSOLUTE crap. Tell me where an Airline is going to find 500 pilots permanantly and immediatly that have all the qualifications they need?
Tell me where your going to find skilled laborers permanently and immediatly?
Tell me where you are goin to find fully qualified Air Traffic Controllers, security specialists, engineers, plumbers, welders, hell even grocier store casheirs?
The local albertsons was offering $19 an hour to casheirs during their strike and still had a problem finding qualified people.
The market changes and so do working conditions. Back in 98 grocery stores back home where baying $13/hr plus offer hiring bonuses just to hire people. Too many times Union workers want their cake and eat it too when it just isn't practical. If most companys needed to keep good workers around and could afford to do so they would.......but times get tough and some times people have to go, do the Unions care? NO they don't.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
That is ABSOLUTE crap. Tell me where an Airline is going to find 500 pilots permanantly and immediatly that have all the qualifications they need?
So your saying companies cant survive without unions now?
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Originally posted by WhiteHawk
So your saying companies cant survive without unions now?
no i'm saying this:
Strikes these days are no deterrent to a company who can replace them permanantly and immediatly, which is any US company.
is a garbage statement. Strikes do have an effect and can kill a company but, Unions become irrelevent though when the labor market looks like it did back in 2000.
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You are right. Strikes are obvioulsly a deterrent to a company . Let me rephrase, if the company doesnt like the proposal they are offered, they are 100% legally entitled to replace the work force with workers of its own choice. Overnight freight disposed of all thier Union drivers just recently. I am not sure what the specifics were, but overnight continues to operate without a Union. In the past, company had to wait a certain amount of time before it could hire replacements, I think. I think the aircontrollers strike in 82 changed a bunch of labor laws in favor of the company, but i am not sure, and I am getting drunk so I have to go. See you guys and union or not, we are all USA. Merry Christmasand happy new Year.
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Originally posted by WhiteHawk
Ford engineers are non Union. McLean should never have agreed to a contract that prevents the business from operating successfully. Would your father and you have lost good jobs if the Union hadnt created them? It is a popular myth that corporations are forced to allow unions to run the business, in fact, unions lay a contract on the table that says, 'we will not supply your plant with labor unless these conditions are met.' The company can refuse or accept. Strikes these days are no deterrent to a company who can replace them permanantly and immediatly, which is any US company. In most cases, the decision for a company to move oversees is a combination of things. Cheap labor is one of them, no national labor laws is another, i.e. if you get mangled on the job, tuff luck. When you get old and brittle, see you later, if you dont polish my knob before your shift every day, you get the worst job with the least pay. Also, the relaxed environmental restrictions, pensions, no OSHA, no wages and hours division, no labor board, no discrimination or harassment. So, the unions are just the first line of defense against a free-for-all low bidder labor auction that would resort to massive insourcing of cheap mexican and chinese labor and resort in a dramatic decrease in the living standard of Many americans. I have no doubt, although I could be wrong, that most US companies would employ gulag conditions if the law permitted it. As was the case before the Unions.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
The IBofT local 480 SUPPLIED us with those jobs?????????????? Who the HELL are you trying to fool? The union hasn't created a damned thing as far as jobs go, except for those leeches sitting up top sucking the rest of the members dry, THOSE jobs the union created. The union didn't get me a single job, I applied, and then I WORKED so they'd call me back. No, we worked our tulips off to get jobs, the union didn't get us jobs.
McLean didn't AGREE to a contract that killed them, the union slow walkers bled them down. "Don't work so hard, you'll make us look bad". Even my diehard pro union friends know it goes on and say it is wrong. It goes on everywhere I've ever had dealings with a union. No productivity no profit, no profit, no company, no company, no job. Thanks a lot IBofT.
The local GE plant here is closing in 6 months after being here since 1957. They went union (IBEW) about 15 years ago and it went down hill from there. When the union came in, GE was already the best place to work for wages and benefits. Now Nissan and others have passed them by, and productivity is so bad they're down to 50 employees from 1600, and they'll ALL be gone in 6 months. Thank you IBEW.
Strikes present no problem? Yeah, sure. Shut the plant down and stop production of the product that pays the bills. That's no problem at all.
Oh, UNLESS your state is a right to work state, once the union is in, they have to deal with and hire union. So no, you can't just say "We won't meet union demands, we'll hire someone else and get rid of the union."
Engineers aren't union? No kidding? Read what I wrote. I said management was just as bad as the unions, and cited the crappy engineering staff as an example.
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Originally posted by WhiteHawk
You are right. Strikes are obvioulsly a deterrent to a company . Let me rephrase, if the company doesnt like the proposal they are offered, they are 100% legally entitled to replace the work force with workers of its own choice. Overnight freight disposed of all thier Union drivers just recently. I am not sure what the specifics were, but overnight continues to operate without a Union. In the past, company had to wait a certain amount of time before it could hire replacements, I think. I think the aircontrollers strike in 82 changed a bunch of labor laws in favor of the company, but i am not sure, and I am getting drunk so I have to go. See you guys and union or not, we are all USA. Merry Christmasand happy new Year.
Are the only places you go for "info" union hack sites and conspericy theory sites?
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Are the only places you go for "info" union hack sites and conspericy theory sites?
No, I actually work in a union shop and watch the politics unfold. Dont pattern your life on what I say, its just my opinion.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
:rofl :rofl :rofl
The IBofT local 480 SUPPLIED us with those jobs?????????????? Who the HELL are you trying to fool? The union hasn't created a damned thing as far as jobs go, except for those leeches sitting up top sucking the rest of the members dry, THOSE jobs the union created. The union didn't get me a single job, I applied, and then I WORKED so they'd call me back. No, we worked our tulips off to get jobs, the union didn't get us jobs.
McLean didn't AGREE to a contract that killed them, the union slow walkers bled them down. "Don't work so hard, you'll make us look bad". Even my diehard pro union friends know it goes on and say it is wrong. It goes on everywhere I've ever had dealings with a union. No productivity no profit, no profit, no company, no company, no job. Thanks a lot IBofT.
The local GE plant here is closing in 6 months after being here since 1957. They went union (IBEW) about 15 years ago and it went down hill from there. When the union came in, GE was already the best place to work for wages and benefits. Now Nissan and others have passed them by, and productivity is so bad they're down to 50 employees from 1600, and they'll ALL be gone in 6 months. Thank you IBEW.
Strikes present no problem? Yeah, sure. Shut the plant down and stop production of the product that pays the bills. That's no problem at all.
Oh, UNLESS your state is a right to work state, once the union is in, they have to deal with and hire union. So no, you can't just say "We won't meet union demands, we'll hire someone else and get rid of the union."
Engineers aren't union? No kidding? Read what I wrote. I said management was just as bad as the unions, and cited the crappy engineering staff as an example.
Well, the company I work for just paid its ceo a 4 million dollar bonus and presented its shareholders with tremendously rosey outlook for the future. You talk about footdraggers. We got the slowest guys history has ever known, our floor sweepers make 60 grand a year. But those of us that realize how good we got it seem to step up and fill in the gaps. Our management gives us good stuff, our sales team sells it and we produce at a high efficiency. I guess some factories work out and others dont. Blame it on the Unions if you want, but the bottom line is, any compny can go non union whenever they wish. If your company had a bunch of high dollar loafers wandering around chastising others for working and didnt boot out the union then everybody gets what they deserve. GE plant closing here too. Moving to china. If you think thats because of the Union, you are sadly mistaken. Do a google search on chinese labor laws and compare that with the US labor laws, (non Union). Companies cant resist having a gulag style environment for thier workers. I'll buy USA union made stuff until I cant afford to do so.
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Yes there have become many negative things with the unionization of the worker/consumer. But the alternative is worse.
There, I have spoken. There should be no further need for debate.
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Most people are not union.
I will not take a union job if I can avoid it.
My dad was union and hated it. They also screwed my mom out of his retirement.
Having never worked a union job, I fail to see why they are needed. I make good money and have great benifits.
All my friends but one are non union and all make good money and have great benefits.
My only union friend goes out of his way to screw his employer because his union hack buddies and him do not think they are paid enough( he makes twice as much as I do, without overtime, and digs ditches).
You should have heard him crying over the props Cali tried to pass on unions, he was going around telling people his union was going to be disbanded because thats what his shop foreman told him.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Having never worked a union job, I fail to see why they are needed.
The same Toyota worker that mentioned the "new hours of work" also relayed the terrible working conditions there...Each line worker is responsible for knowing/doing 5 jobs...He had no problem for 7 years then developed carpo-tunnel which prevented him from doing one of the five jobs...You think the company would show some compassion?
Nooo...He is being threatened with termination and now he has to get a lawyer...You think that's fair?
A union shop (CAW/UAW) would NEVER allow this.That's one of many examples why unions have a purpose.
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when I was a contractor I paid off fat assed buisness agents so that my guys could paint a room with a roller instead of a.... a friggin brush... this was in frisco and the unions wanted us to do every job like we were in the 19th century... the union drove up the cost of building anything in frisco because they wanted it done in an inferior way in order to put more of their useless members to work.
Most had no real skills other than avioding anthing that entailed work.
I was in Femont when GM closed down... I knew a dozen people that worked there including my girlfriend... the parking lot glittered with broken booze bottles and hypodermics... about every third row of cars was a drug dealer and the union members were stealing everything they could when they weren't too loaded to function.
lazs