Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: F4UDOA on December 27, 2005, 09:50:51 AM
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In light of all the uberness taking place all over the message boards I would like an uber (but historically accurate) F4U-1A for the new year.
Don't we already have an F4U-1A you ask? Well we do, sort of. We have a hybrid -1/-1A, it has the birdcage of the -1 as well as the stall characteristics and it also has the toothpick prop that limits climb. But it has the water injection of the -1A and that is about it.
I say pull the water out of our -1 (along with the extra weight) make it a early 1943 F4U-1 and give use a real -1A with a paddle prop, water injection raised buldged canopy and without the pylons and rocket stubs that take almost 10MPH out of the top speed. This is a 1944 airplane and saw heavy service for almost two years. All -1A's produced in 1944 would fit the criteria and the older models were refitted to match these specifications.
This is 60" MAP (usually 57.5" MAP) and the only difference would be that the arresting hook was removed since it wasn't on carriers anyway.
Brace yourself:O
(http://mywebpages.comcast.net/markw4/air1777speed.jpg)
(http://mywebpages.comcast.net/markw4/air1777climb.jpg)
(http://mywebpages.comcast.net/markw4/air1777HP.jpg)
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I almost forgot the gratuitous money shot.
(http://mywebpages.comcast.net/markw4/f4u-11.jpg)
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Seconded, thirded, fourthed, however many times it takes to get her!
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Amen!
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Although didn't later 1As still use the arrestor hook? By mid-1944 Corsairs were finally being deployed on carriers with the USN in large numbers.
Regardless, I BADLY want to take a 1A for a spin. :D
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The charts are from one of the aircraft used in the USN P-51B vs F4U-1 comparison.
2. F4U-1A No. 17930 was a standard production raised cabin airplane, with a surface finish in rather poor condition, but with the tail hook removed. It is considered to have been in a drag condition representative of production airplanes after moderate service. The same type propeller as that on No. 02390 was installed.(Note: No. 6501A-0, the "paddle blade" type)
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Is the F4U lineup gonna be something like this?
1943
F4U-1
Feature(s)
* Remove Water Injection along with extra fats (weight)
1944
F4U-1A
Features...
* Paddle propeller
* Water Injection
* raised buldged canopy
* Deletion of fixed pylons, without the pylons and rocket stubs that take almost 10MPH out of the top speed.
F4U-1D
1945
F4U-1C
F4U-4
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Originally posted by F4UDOA
I almost forgot the gratuitous money shot.
(http://mywebpages.comcast.net/markw4/f4u-11.jpg)
I'd hit that.
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Saxman,
That is a great question. I think the F4U-1A's were designated for land based service. I say this not because I have some document that proves it but rather I have never seen a single picture or reference to a F4U-1A squadron during or after 1944 on a carrier. Also I don't know how much the tailhook had on the top speed anyway, or if it caused a problem with drag because the new raised tail wheel was being installed anyway. The only difference in speed from the F4U data I posted and the "Clean Condition" F4U-1D data from NAVAIR is the speeds above 15K (Approx). At sea level on up they are about the same until over 15K, the -1A ends up about 14MPH faster in Mil and War Emergency powers at 20K. It seems as if the High Blower of the F4U-1A was putting out more power than the -1D, otherwise the speeds are identical which shows the same drag characteristics.
Justin G,
Yes it is exactly the same serial number. I wish Vought had decided to use the 60 gallons of ADI they installed on the other F4U-1 they tested. Makes you wonder why?
1K3,
Would be nice to have huh? We have a bunch of 190's, 109's, Spit's etc. Wouldn't hurt to have another F4U handy. Could use an F6F-3 too.
SMIDSY,
In yours and my dreams!!!
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eeven with all the fancy graphs and pimped up plane , the question is WHY?....many more planes needed before another f4u..nice plane though..
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Selector,
Your right, there are more planes needed. I would say VVS more than any. Mig-3, TU-2 etc.
However it is my new years wish and I would really like to see another F4U. We have more Spits 109's, 190's, P-47's and the same number of Hurri's that don't get out of the hanger much.
Besides the F4U has some of the oldest artwork in the game and it would not take much at all to make a -1D into a -1A.
So why not and it doesn't even have to be in American markings. Make it the first RNZAF entry into AH.
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Aren't they all going to be updated?
"Why" is kind of academic? its a given its going to be.
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To borrow a point from Krusty in regards to planes that've had their updates finished: THAT'S the best time to add a new variant model, since they're already going to be updating the existing ones anyway.
Better skin idea: Boyington's Lulu Bell. :D
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Krusty is right,
And that is why we now have a G-14 and K-4. The G-10 was a hybrid much like our -1A is now.
I am just requesting that it be split into two more accurate versions. And frankly if they used the clean F4U-1D numbers which are the same under about 16K that would be fine with me although I would prefer the climb of the model I posted.
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365 on the deck. Not to shabby
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Originally posted by Saxman
Better skin idea: Boyington's Lulu Bell. :D
If you are talking about this one:
(http://www.the-gunfighters.org/lulubelle3.jpg)
It wont be accepted (nor should it be) as it was for the publicity photo and was never flown by him.
The planes he most often flew (as with most USMC squads at the time 214 did not assign specific aircraft, they flew the first plane they came too that was airworthy, even today USMC pilots are not assigned specific aircraft even though their names are put on them, you fly what maintenance has ready) were BuNo 17744 and 17915 which he was shot down in. None of these planes had any special markings on them except 17883 had "Lucybelle" on the side. The "Lulubelle" on 18086 is wrong and is another clue to it being a staged plane not done by Boyington. This is also a famous picture of Boyington, and shows 17883,
(http://www.the-gunfighters.org/Boyington.jpg)
notice how rough and "used" 17883 looks, while 18086 looks like it just rolled off the Vought assembly lines.
These are the BuNo's he flew in the second tour with notes for some planes.
02723 old "Bird Cage" model
17735
17395
17452
17792
17910
17527
17485
17744 4 kills
17883 1 kill the famous #1 picture
17915 3 kills shot down
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Yeah, I know about that, but it's still a pretty famous set of markings. And while BOYINGTON may not have actually flown that bird, SOMEONE may have.
As a side note, looking at the 883 photo, doesn't it look like the default pilot position in the existing Corsairs (specifically the C/D Hogs which shared the A-hog's general cockpit position/size) is set awfully far back? Either that or the cockpits are a bit oversized?
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Yup, I've always thought the F4U dash and gunsight seemed like it was a mile away.
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The Corsair's a big bird, but that cockpit's nowhere NEAR as big as in the game. Hopefully that gets fixed when they update the Hog (SOON PLEASE!)
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I think we need to revisit all the flight models of the F4u series too.
The F4u does not have good stall characteristics. As a matter of fact, every pilot (including the guys teaching it to me)I have talked to with regards to these characteristics say to avoid the stall at all costs, as it is likely unrecoverable. The aircraft is also placarded to indicate this as well.
Not to jump off subject, but the 51 is the same way, over 2 revolutions in the spin results in a flat rotation that is unrecoverable.
But I do agree with F4uDOA that the performance and features definitely need to be revisited.
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Love the F4U-1A. We must have it.
Saw the one at the Boeing Museum of Flight in Seattle, its a Goodyear made one, and they did a marvelous job on it.
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Originally posted by Saxman
The Corsair's a big bird, but that cockpit's nowhere NEAR as big as in the game. Hopefully that gets fixed when they update the Hog (SOON PLEASE!)
no
The F6F is the biggest USN plane
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time out
Are you guys saying the AH F4U-1 we have is a HYBRID of 1943 F4U-1 and 1944 F4U-1A?:eek:
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Ya, its a F4U-1 with the water injection of the F4U-1A.
We should get:
F4U-1 "Birdcage"
F4U-1A
F4U-1D
F4U-4
I would drop the F4U-1C. We don't need it. For the very few that saw action its an anachronism.
Ya, ya, fire away, I am all suited up and I have extended insurance. :D
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1K3,
Yes indeed it is.
It has prominate characteristics of the F4U-1 such as the pre-fix harsher stall and the birdcage canopy. It also has the NAVAIR performance of the F4U-1A from 1943 which does include ADI (WEP) but only 2135HP not 2250HP and it also still has the toothpick prop blade design ala the P-47 that also came from the early -1's. Then there is the 1944 varient that matches the charts above that has all of the -1A features and has the blown canopy as well.
The F4U-1D is essentially the same aircraft but it has external stores pylons that are always attached in AH regardless of external loadout. This accounts for 8 to 10MPH depending on altitude. The speed above 15K on the chart I posted shows higher than a -1D without pylons by about 10MPH I assume because the high blower of the supercharger must have been doing very well that day. Most other references you will see are at are not quite that high at 20K but match very well below that alt.
I believe the G10 was a hybrid also and that thing spawned two new 109's so maybe the USN/USMC can get the same?
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Ya, its a F4U-1 with the water injection of the F4U-1A.
We should get:
F4U-1 "Birdcage"
F4U-1A
F4U-1D
F4U-4
I would drop the F4U-1C. We don't need it. For the very few that saw action its an anachronism.
Ya, ya, fire away, I am all suited up and I have extended insurance
It is a complament to the F4U that in AH with late war monsters like the LA-7, FW190D-9, BF109G14/K-4 etc. that 2 out of the 4 F4U's have to be perked so as not to upset the MA ;)
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Yes, look on the bright side! hehe.
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Originally posted by Squire
I would drop the F4U-1C. We don't need it. For the very few that saw action its an anachronism.
Ya, ya, fire away, I am all suited up and I have extended insurance. :D
u got my vote :D
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I'd say leave her in for the novelty of having the full lineup of 1-Hogs. And then add the radar-equipped -2 to have ALL the early-model Corsairs! :D
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I know we are not supposed to punt threads but I just wanted to give Pyro a moment to consider the possibilty of an early 1943 -1 and a true 1944 -1A. Just in case you were away for the new year.
Please, please, please:cry It worked for the K-4/G-14.
A binary reply in 1 or 0 would be fine.
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Or one blink for yes, two for no?
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I'd like to see the N1k remodeled, I don't fly it much mostly do to how damned ugly it is! lol I love the F4u's, but name the N1k needs a make over!
Edward