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General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: cav58d on December 27, 2005, 02:54:29 PM

Title: Yak-9t
Post by: cav58d on December 27, 2005, 02:54:29 PM
The past two days I have been flying the YAK9T...What an awesome airplane!  I find it ridicously maneuverable...I have been eating spits for breakfast...Its also an amazing boom and zoomer...Doesnt seem to compress at all, i love it...Im also getting pretty comfortable with the 37MM...Ammo is minimal, so its only shoot when you gurantee a kill...I have my distance set at 200...Now I can maneuver the airplane onto someones six and get within 100-300D and get the kill no problem...But I am having some serious trouble with snapshots and deflection angles...Is it even worth it to take angled shots like that with a 37mm?  Is there anyone who is a pro in the Yak-T that could take me to the DA or TA sometime to mess around?  thanks

cav
Title: Re: Yak-9t
Post by: ghi on December 27, 2005, 03:34:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by cav58d
The past two days I have been flying the YAK9T...What an awesome airplane!  I find it ridicously maneuverable...I have been eating spits for breakfast...

cav

 
 Did the spit pilots see you ?
Title: Yak-9t
Post by: Krusty on December 27, 2005, 03:44:53 PM
Cav: I'm no pro but I used to love the -T.

Ghi: don't knock it, the Yak9 is a very manuverable plane. Back in AH1 I used to out turn spitVs low and slow on the deck.

For the snap shots: I wouldn't take them. From my experience, it's like firing the 109's 30mm -- chances are the enemy plane will fly right between your rounds. Avoid 90-degree-ish snapshots. Go for more subtle angles, like 45-degrees or so (front or back), that is to say where the relative motion of the plane you're shooting at is slower.

I guess I ought to get back into the -T for a bit and get used to it again.
Title: Yak-9t
Post by: Oldman731 on December 27, 2005, 03:59:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
Ghi: don't knock it, the Yak9 is a very manuverable plane.

If you can force a climbing right turn fight, the 9T will outmaneuver an FM2.  The plane is lots of fun.  I've never had any success using the 37mm at anything longer than point-blank range, but the results are always impressive.

- oldman
Title: Yak-9t
Post by: Pooface on December 27, 2005, 04:25:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Oldman731
If you can force a climbing right turn fight, the 9T will outmaneuver an FM2.  The plane is lots of fun.  I've never had any success using the 37mm at anything longer than point-blank range, but the results are always impressive.

- oldman



lol, i will never forget the first time i killed a tempest. the guy zooms past me, and i shoot one round from 800+ yrds, while he's going a lot faster than me, and i took his tail off :D

that gun is so uber its crazy. of course rate of fire and ammo load suck, so use it more like a sniper rifle. the bullet won't drop until about 650 yrds, where it only drops a few inches per 100yrds. crazy gun rofl
Title: Yak-9t
Post by: indy007 on December 27, 2005, 04:49:33 PM
I've made 90 degree shots with it plenty of times. As long as you can keep them above your nose (roll inverted, whatever it takes) when you line up the shot you'll get the timing down pretty fast. The gun really is a twitch gamers dream. Counter-Strike has an AWP, we get a 37mm :D
Title: Yak-9t
Post by: Krusty on December 27, 2005, 07:39:57 PM
lol lovely analogy
Title: Yak-9t
Post by: cav58d on December 27, 2005, 08:02:05 PM
I dont think the rate of fire on the 37MM is bad at all
Title: Yak-9t
Post by: Krusty on December 28, 2005, 12:42:11 AM
No, not that bad, but still slow enough compared to other guns that high speed snapshots might go around the target.
Title: Yak-9t
Post by: Squire on December 28, 2005, 12:49:47 AM
I wish it had an optional 23mm, which it had. I like the Yak-9 but its silly that AH2 only models the tank buster version?
Title: Yak-9t
Post by: George on December 28, 2005, 01:36:50 AM
Yak-9T has HC-37 gun with following data:
length 3400 mm
max width 215 mm
max height 415 mm
Weight 171 kg
Rate of fire 240—260 shots/min
HE shell 732 g, including  explosive weight 34 g, initial velocity— 865 m/sec.
After hit in 1-1.5 mm thick. duraluminum aircraft skin , HE shell makes hole with 0.46 m input diameter and 0.78 m output diameter

AP shell 770 g, initial velocity 810 m/sec.
From 200 m distance AP shell pierces 50 mm armor and from 400 m distance - 45 mm armor at 90 degrees (normal).

Charge weight (both for HE and AP) - about 210 g

Yak-9T (tank aircraft) has been produced from March, 1943 up to june, 1945. Total production q-ty - 2748 pcs.  
HC-37 ammunition onto Yak-9T was 30 shells (in case of carefull loading of cartridge belt - 32 shells).

Yak-9T was 152 kg heavier than Yak-9 and had a little bit worse maneuverability, climb and speed data.
As usual, Yak-9T has been used together with Yak-9 and operated by experienced and keen pilots
Title: Yak-9t
Post by: OOZ662 on December 28, 2005, 04:27:32 AM
I was dweebin' around about 750ft over a small airfield looking up at buffs passing over and the such. Got about two field-lengths away and turned to see a pony at 2.0 out. I thought to myself, "I'm bored, but that would be retarded...well..." Snapped the nose up, put in a tiny bit of rudder, and hucked one of those rounds up at the guy. I had time to put my nose down, change throttle setting, and start a turn before I saw a tiny little puff and got a kill message. Was laughing so hard I had to land and almost pranged it; imagining the look on his face...

Can't deny the "THOOM!" sound of that gun either. :D
Title: Yak-9t
Post by: Tony Williams on December 28, 2005, 08:21:14 AM
Quote
Originally posted by George
Yak-9T (tank aircraft) has been produced from March, 1943 up to june, 1945. Total production q-ty - 2748 pcs.  


My information is that the T stood for Tyazhelovooruzhenniy = heavily armed, nothing to do with tanks. AFAIK the 9T was used only in aerial combat, not for anti-tank work. The AP ammo was used by the Il-2 3M, which carried two NS-37 underwing.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk) and discussion forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/)
Title: Yak-9t
Post by: George on December 28, 2005, 08:31:34 AM
According to book of Mr. Stepanetz (Chief flight test engineer of Yakovlev's design office), T means Tankoviy (Tank). It can be understood as 'aircraft which has gun like tank'. In the most of Russian articles T means Tankoviy too.
Title: Yak-9t
Post by: Krusty on December 28, 2005, 10:51:50 AM
That does NOT mean it's an anti-tank weapon, as it is clearly a HE round, not a AP round.
Title: Yak-9t
Post by: indy007 on December 28, 2005, 11:20:10 AM
If it were an AT weapon, it'd have the same problem that the Hurri does, with shells going straight through and not making things go boom.
Title: Yak-9t
Post by: Tony Williams on December 28, 2005, 11:22:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by George
According to book of Mr. Stepanetz (Chief flight test engineer of Yakovlev's design office), T means Tankoviy (Tank). It can be understood as 'aircraft which has gun like tank'. In the most of Russian articles T means Tankoviy too.


There have been conflicting interpretations from Russian sources...

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk) and discussion forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/)
Title: Yak-9t
Post by: cav58d on December 28, 2005, 12:56:04 PM
So whats everyones opinion...Should I focus on the T or U??  Id like to hear a comprehensive comparsion of strengths and weakness's
Title: Yak-9t
Post by: Krusty on December 28, 2005, 01:29:56 PM
U has more powerful engine but only 150-200 rounds of 20mm. That's about the same as the 109F. It's hard to get kills with a single 20mm. I think for just getting kills the 37mm with 32 rounds is more effective than the 20mm with 200 rounds. Kind of like the 109s with a single 20mm vs a single 30mm. The 30mm has more potential but is harder to hit with.
Title: Yak-9t
Post by: Oldman731 on December 28, 2005, 01:35:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by cav58d
So whats everyones opinion...Should I focus on the T or U??  Id like to hear a comprehensive comparsion of strengths and weakness's

9U is a far more capable plane, does everything well, I consider it to be one of the half-dozen uber rides in AH.  As Krusty says, you can't just spray ammo around, but there's no question (in my view, at least) that the 9U is superior to the 9T.

Which is, of course, a very compelling reason to learn how to fly the 9T.

- oldman
Title: Yak-9t
Post by: Squire on December 28, 2005, 02:44:42 PM
From what I have read the 37mm in the Yak-9T was not popular with Soviet pilots, it had very limited ammo, the a/c shook terribly when it fired, and it was a difficult gun to aim.

I would like to see the Yak-9 and Yak-3 series (the real backbone of the Yak equipped VVS) and ditch the Yak-9T and the Yak-9U.
Title: Yak-9t
Post by: 1K3 on December 28, 2005, 03:49:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Squire


I would like to see the Yak-9 and Yak-3 series (the real backbone of the Yak equipped VVS) and ditch the Yak-9T and the Yak-9U.


ditch the yak 9U???? u kiddin right?

We have very few Russian/USSR fighters that can reach 400+ mph and u want the -9U scrapped?

for late war East-Front planesets germany more fighters than can reach 400 plus mph than VVS's

the late war 400+ club

luftwaffe
109G-14 (410mph)
109K-4 (450mph)
Fw-190A-8/F-8 (410mph)
Fw-190D-9 (420 mph)

VVS
La-7 (410mph)
Yak-3 (barely 400mph)
Title: Yak-9t
Post by: Squire on December 28, 2005, 04:19:02 PM
The Yak-9U we have is not much different than a Yak-3 in performance. We do not have the VK-107 Yak-9U (434mph in 1945).

I like the Yak-3 because its more representative of what they used.

I wouldn't be so hasty to diss it IK3, you could very well like it better, by all accounts it was an awesome dogfighter.
Title: Yak-9t
Post by: 1K3 on December 28, 2005, 10:36:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Squire
The Yak-9U we have is not much different than a Yak-3 in performance. We do not have the VK-107 Yak-9U (434mph in 1945).


You saying AH Yak-9U has VK 105 engine?:huh :confused:
Title: Yak-9t
Post by: cav58d on December 28, 2005, 10:39:43 PM
wow...I ran into an IL2 today with my Yak-T....It actually took two rounds 2 bring her down!  I LOVE THIS PLANE!
Title: Yak-9t
Post by: Kweassa on December 28, 2005, 10:45:26 PM
The Yak-9T, or the Yak-9U for that matter, doesn't really turn any better than the La-7. The only plane that can be said that turns a tad better, would be the La-5FN.

 The following are the test figures:


Quote
-Format-
Name (stall limiter angle required for testing)
- time to complete one full circle at normal flight (turn speed), turn radius
- time to complete one full circle with one notch flaps (turn speed), turn radius
- time to complete one full circle with full flaps (turn speed), turn radius



Quote
Yak-9T (0.05)
- 20 seconds (144mph), 205.0m
- 19 seconds (132mph), 178.5m
- 19 seconds (116mph), 156.8m

Yak-9U (0.05)
- 19 seconds (152mph), 205.5m
- 18 seconds (144mph), 184.5m
- 19 seconds (129mph), 174.4m

La-5FN (0.05)
- 18 seconds (156mph), 199.8m
- 17 seconds (150mph), 181.5m
- 17 seconds (126mph), 152.4m

La-7 (0.05)
2xShVAK
- 18 seconds (162mph), 207.5m
- 18 seconds (153mph), 196.0m
- 17 seconds (127mph), 153.6m
3xB-20
- 18 seconds (162mph), 207.5m
- 17 seconds (151mph), 182.7m
- 17 seconds (126mph), 152.4m


 The turn capabilities of the two Yaks and Lavochkas are simular, with only the La-5FN at a small lead above others. This amount of advantage in turn the La-5FN holds over the others, is roughly about as much advantage as the A6M5 holds over the Hurricane MkIIc. Basically, they all turn about the same with very slight differences.

 Flaps really don't make much of a difference unless; 1) they can be for some reason, deployed a lot earlier than usual(as in combat settings seen in US fighters), or 2) they are particularly efficient in stablizing the plane(the Fowlers in Ki-84 or the P-38s) - which, is neither in the VVS fighters.

 
 Here's a list of turn performance(normal flight conditions) with a few "milestone" planes to give out the general impression on turn performance comparison:

A6M5: 138.7m
Hurricane Mk.IIc:         145.2m
Spitfire Mk.V: 157.0m
Ki-84-I-Ko (0.05):         185.1m
Bf109F-4:         199.5m
[b]La-5FN: 199.8m[/b]
N1K2-J: 202.0m
[b]Yak-9T: 205.0m
Yak-9U: 205.5m
La-7: 207.5m
La-7(3x20mm): 207.5m[/b]
Bf109G-14(20mm): 214.0m
Bf109G-14(30mm): 217.2m
Bf109K-4:                  233.3m
P-51D:         248.1m
P-47D-40:         264.8m
P-38L: 275.0m
P-47N(75%) 275.8m
Fw190D-9:         283.4m
Fw190A-8:         296.3m
Fw190A-8(30mm): 296.3m


 Therefore, any difference, or 'superiority' one perceives with the Yaks or Las, can be traced to;

1) pure placebo
2) secondary reasons such as E efficiency or superior engine power
3) easier handling and correcting at near-stall situation

 ...not, pure turn performance.
Title: Yak-9t
Post by: scott123 on December 29, 2005, 06:06:47 AM
The Yak 9u is as good,if not better tha\n the Yak 3 and has all of the 3's improvements.The Yak 3 was supposed to have more metal in it's construction than earlier Yak's,but a lot had to make do with the composite material of the yak 9.The Yak 9u however was all metal which made it more able to cope with high speed dives.As far as I know the Yak 9T was used not against Tanks but against shipping,although I don't think this was it's original purpose,in aces highg it is more effective against armour than the Hurri D.:(
Title: Yak-9t
Post by: George on December 29, 2005, 08:49:42 AM
Only experimental Yak-9U obtained 434.78 mph (700 km/h)
Max speed of serial Yak-9U was:

1. up to December, 1944 - 575 km/h (357 mph) at ground level and 636 km/h (395 mph) at 5000 m, because of problems with motor overheating.
Motor rpm has been limited by 2800 rpm for climb and 3000 rpm for horizontal flight

2. From December, 1944 -  575 km/h (357 mph) at ground level and 672 mph (417 km/h) at 5000 m and 3200 rpm, because of canceling of rpm limit

By the way, Yak-9UT has been produced from Feb., 1945 up to May, 1945 in total q-ty 282 pcs. This fighter also has been used in WWII air combats.
Yak-9UT had 1x23 mm NS-23 and 2x20 mm B-20, 4.23 kg/sec fire rate.
After end of war has been designed all-metal Yak-9P with the same armament as Yak-9UT (801 pcs.).

Quote
Originally posted by Squire
The Yak-9U we have is not much different than a Yak-3 in performance. We do not have the VK-107 Yak-9U (434mph in 1945).

I like the Yak-3 because its more representative of what they used.

I wouldn't be so hasty to diss it IK3, you could very well like it better, by all accounts it was an awesome dogfighter.
Title: Yak-9t
Post by: Widewing on December 29, 2005, 10:22:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Squire
The Yak-9U we have is not much different than a Yak-3 in performance. We do not have the VK-107 Yak-9U (434mph in 1945).

I like the Yak-3 because its more representative of what they used.

I wouldn't be so hasty to diss it IK3, you could very well like it better, by all accounts it was an awesome dogfighter.


We do have the VK-107 engine and performance is accurate for the typical war-time 9U.

Speed at best altitude, measured with E6B:

18.0k: 414 mph
17.5k: 415 mph
17.0k: 416 mph
16.5k: 415 mph
16.0k: 414 mph
15.5k: 412 mph

As George noted (although he transposed kph and mph), war-time 9Us were rated at 417 mph at roughly 16,500 feet. The error in AH2 is less than 0.5% at 16.5k, but within 0.24% at 17,000 feet. In other words, more accurate than the test equipment used to record data on an actual aircraft (usually certified to +/- 1%).

My regards,

Widewing
Title: Yak-9t
Post by: Tilt on December 29, 2005, 12:24:06 PM
We have the Vk107 powered Yak9U..........only 282 Yak9UT were manufactured and its not clear how many saw active duty as the production authorisation was only given in March 45.

I think we would benefit from the addition of the Yak3..............

It has the lesser VK105P2 engine but is considerably lighter (400kg empty) than the 9U and much better manouverability  (turning circle 17 secs fully loaded).

Its power to weight ratio suggests that its acceleration from lower speeds is every bit as good as the 9U whilst it will not enjoy the higher speeds of the 9U. Neither would it perform in the mid range of altitude as the 9U does.

It would be the the  best VVS close quarter ACM ride if adopted by AH IMO.
Title: Yak-9t
Post by: 1K3 on December 29, 2005, 07:06:14 PM
Would Jak-3 be better than late-war spitfires (spit 14 and 16) in dogfighting? :)

imo what makes yaks a challenging (and fun) plane to fly is its puny ammo load!
Title: Yak-9t
Post by: Squire on December 29, 2005, 08:38:51 PM
Ok, I had figured it was a VK-105 since it topped at @ 415mph.

A Yak-3 is still a 400mph class fighter, with a very good climb rate, and like I said, is much more representative of the VVS fighter force than a Yak-9U.

As far as how good it would be? well, like a Yak-9, but faster, and with a much better gun package for air combat.  Also it has a one piece canopy at the front, and I like its forward view better than the Yak-9s, and you don't have to try to aim that silly howitzer of the Yak-9T.

They modelled a Yak-3 in Warbirds, and it was quite a nifty ride. They also have them in IL-2.

I would expect it to be more like a Spit XVI-ish in performance,  I am generalising only, but since you asked...

Imho it was the supreme dogfighter of the VVS in WW2, better than a LA-7, LA-5FN, Yak-9 or a P-39N, and most of the other lend lease a/c they received.
Title: Yak-9t
Post by: Krusty on December 31, 2005, 12:00:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by 1K3
Would Jak-3 be better than late-war spitfires (spit 14 and 16) in dogfighting? :)

imo what makes yaks a challenging (and fun) plane to fly is its puny ammo load!


In about 10 sorties over the past couple nights the only limitation for me has not been ammo, but fuel! I've run out of gas more than I have out of ammo.
Title: Yak-9t
Post by: Sikboy on January 01, 2006, 07:28:42 PM
I loved the Yak-9T when I played, it was easily my favorite plane, though because of LOFT, I usually wound up in the 9U before the night was over.

The 9T seems to retain energy really well, but it really is under-powered compared to the late war monsters. So as long as you have some air under you, you can hang with a lot of the planes out there. But (as with most planes) if you get slow and low, you're pretty much done for.

What I find most fascinating about the NS-37 is how far out you can hit with it. Unlike a lot of other elephant guns, this one seems to fly straight for a while, without dropping off. Of course, with its limited ammo you don't want to take too many low % shots, but when that LA-7 blows past me, I like to send a round or two after him.

The funniest part of flying the Yak-9T is the delayed explosion. I don't know if this is just on my Front end, but I've pinged planes, seen the hit, but they didn't pop for a second or two.  

It's just a lot of fun.

-Sik
Title: Yak-9t
Post by: Krusty on January 01, 2006, 09:44:18 PM
A few nights ago I was climbing up and saw b17s way higher than myself. I was the highest one and the 17s were hitting 2 airfields and a strat city at 20k with impunity. So I climbed up til I was co alt, but I was slow. So at 1.5k directly behind I had a wicked idea: I rolled film and in a short burst hit the b17 lead bomber from 1.5k out. It was hilarious, because I knew instinctively JUST how to aim to hit it. I thought, "Hrm.. might have been a fluke" so with film rolling still I did it again, another burst, another hit.

You only have 32 rounds, so I wouldn't suggest it, but it was an interesting experiment. All I did was hit the port wing 2x and smoke the inboard engine (oil not fire).

Later I got 2 bombers before getting dead eng and PW. I died 200 feet from runway (fastest PW I ever had)
Title: Yak-9t
Post by: cav58d on January 02, 2006, 01:02:45 AM
yeah unfortunately buffs take 2 or 3 pings =(....But yeah I love this airplane, im really having so much fun flying this baby around...I find that although its extremely maneuverable, I still tend to exploit the weakness of larger airplanes...If I have the opportunity to attack an LA7 or a Corsair, both with the same % of success I will still go after the corsair, not because its less maneuverable, but because its such a big target for my elephant gun!

One prob I have with the Yak...Sodas page says there is WEP...I press P all the time and NOTHING! lol...is my "P" broken?

cav
Title: Yak-9t
Post by: Kweassa on January 02, 2006, 07:11:51 AM
The Yak-9T in AH1 used to have WEP.
Title: Yak-9t
Post by: OOZ662 on January 02, 2006, 08:35:44 AM
Yeah; all of Soda's pages that don't have an asterisk (*) were done during AH1.