Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: funked on January 19, 2001, 10:37:00 PM
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HTC should institute a Rolling Plane Set where planes become available each Tour on the following schedule:
Week 1: Seafire II, Spitfire V, Bf 109F-4, C.202, A6M5, Ju 88, TBM. Perk: Any Week 2 plane.
Week 2: Bf 109G-2, Fw 190A-5, C.205, F6F-5, B-26B, Lancaster. Perk: Any Week 3 plane.
Week 3: Spitfire IX, Typhoon, Bf 109G-6, Fw 190A-8, F4U-1D, P-38L, P-47D-25, La-5FN, B-17G. Perk: Any Week 4 plane.
Week 4 (to end of month): P-51D, Me 109G-10, F4U-1C, Yak-9U, N1K2-J, P-47D-30. Perk: Any plane.
Perks: Perk points will buy you any plane from the NEXT week.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 01-19-2001).]
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it sounds great funked... cept id really like to see a p47 in week 2... maybe a razor back (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Kronos
CO No. 272 Squadron "Whispering Death"
---> http://members.home.net/wchiasson/no272/ (http://members.home.net/wchiasson/no272/)
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No RPS. Period.
AKDejaVu
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Hey! What a great idea. More H2H players.
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Good plan Funked,it gets my vote.
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I like RPS in general, but there's seriously way too few planes, especially the early and mid war variety. I would not want this... yet. Lets see what the planeset looks like in 6 months to a year and then revisit this idea.
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Sancho
63rd FS, 56th FG
"Zemke's Wolfpack"
(http://www.jump.net/~cs3/sigs/mahurin_sig.jpg)
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Sounds like a terrible idea to me...I'd probably fly anyway tho' (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
SOB
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2 Quick points on your proposed planeset
1 The Spit IX and Tiffie belong in week 2, as they are older than all but 1 of the fighters you propose for week 2
2 Note how the US, Russians Germans and Japs all have week 4 planes, while Britain doesn't. In fact Britain only really has week 2 planes, unless the new Tempest is released for week 4
Ok just saw the "Fun not historical" part of the title, so my whines are misplaced here. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by Nashwan (edited 01-20-2001).]
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Funked, while we agree on most things, on this issue I gotta say HELL NO!!!
Not only do I hate the implementation of an RPS, the squeaks, moans, and whines, it brings to the community and bbs are intolerable to me.
If I never have to hear "introduction dates", "ebb & flow", "parity", and "generations" again, it will be too soon.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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Well... you knew I was gonna say it...
RPS doesn't work... It's like socialism... You can try it a thousand times in a thousand different combinations and still you get the same result. People leave.
I love early war planes but realize that not many others do. forcing a die hard late war jock like a P51 guy to not have his ride except 1 week per tour is what will drive him away... He won't be happy flying my favorite rides and even if he is forced to he will complain... He will migrate to the next "fresh" sim with it's limited (and balanced) planeset... I KNOW you know this funked.
Plane set... There are at least half a dozen planes in every RPS ever concieved that will be contentious... They will be unbalancing and/or sources of vitriol... People will leave over em when they don't get their way...I KNOW u iknow this funked.
Late war... I don't like so... I don't fly?
Idiotic "perk" planes... admittedly they will be no worse in your idea than any other but perk is about the worst idea I have ever heard anyway so the improvement is negligable. Perk would allmost work in an arena where all pilot skill leveles were equal but it would still be unfair even then confering an advantage where none is desireable or desired.
There is however a simple workable solution that could be easily implemented that would allow for not only different plane sets but balance and parity amongst them... One arena and... Total freedom and choice. Variety, parity and action... New planes would easily be incorporated wether they be early war or late war uber planes without being at either a huge disadvantage or a huge advantage but....
Unfortunately we are wedded to the "perk" system. We will just have to let it run it's ugly course. It will of course bring nothing but animosity, unbalance and, I'm afraid, will be a club that vets can beat up newbies with to make sure that they will lose interest in the fastest possible time. for them there will be no variety or parity.
Wed the idiotic perk sytem to the equally idiotic RPS system and maybe.... Any new idea will be fun for a couple of weeks but these ones can doom a co. I know... not my affair. I'm just a little tired of moving on when the anal retentive start "fixing" games.
Again.... I am crying before I am hurt here and HT and co seem to be making some pretty good decisions so far but this perk thing....
lazs
lazs
Un
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RPS sucks. It sucked in WB's... why on earth would it NOT suck here?
Frankly said; it's my thirty bucks.. when I wanna fly; I want my plane availible. The perk system seems to me like a borderline 'RPS' system already, we don't need any more restrictions on aircraft accesibility than that.
RPS comes here; HTC will lose my support and my money. It's the one thing that drove me outta Warbirds... it'll sure end my tour here too.
SCREW RPS!
Hang
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Yeah the current system works great. It's really entertaining fighting nothing but F4U-1C's. Spitfire V's and 202's really are competitive with 1945 planes.
[/sarcasm]
Sigh
RPS with score multipliers in WarBirds was IMHO the most entertaining period of that game. Too bad it was spoiled by the one-plane one-dimensional-skillset crybabies. Sure hope we get something here to break up the monotony and provide some variety in the arena.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 01-20-2001).]
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I got really sick of the mostly F4u arena in AW, and I'm not very happy with it here, either. It's not that I care what other people fly, but it just gets boring... "High dot...F4...he tries a headon, dives below me, and runs" "Another high dot...Another F4...he also tries a headon, dives below me, and runs" "Oh lookie...another high dot...wow, another F4...wonder what he's gonna do..."
So I think a RPS or perking the late war planes is a good idea, and I think it would give the arena *more* variety instead of less.
anRky
-Ih8ubb
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sounds good -
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Sounds GREAT.
I'd like to have incentive to fly all the planes, and find even now, trying a new ride can be quite fun.
Having a more even playing field would in the very least be Interesting.
For the guys that NEED their constant ride, I see the point of wanting it. Still, saying AH is fun in a Niki, but would be no fun at all in a Spit9 is retarded.
It might just make well rounded pilots, and squash that barrage of whining over a certain plane types, as the tards would actually have to try it out and see it has just as many weaknesses.
BTW, Funked, I thought you were banned, and Easymo, how can you have 1000+ posts playing that strategy-less HTH?
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Originally posted by lazs:
Well... you knew I was gonna say it...
There is however a simple workable solution that could be easily implemented that would allow for not only different plane sets but balance and parity amongst them... One arena and... Total freedom and choice. Variety, parity and action... New planes would easily be incorporated wether they be early war or late war uber planes without being at either a huge disadvantage or a huge advantage but....
Un
Huh? What on earth are you talking about?
Beyond a certain point you simply can't include mid-early war planes without EXCLUDING other planes for some period of time.
The anti-RPS weasels would like to PRETEND that you have the choice to fl Early War AC but the mere existence of Doras and Tempests and etc. means that you can't.
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Originally posted by funked:
Yeah the current system works great. RPS with score multipliers in WarBirds was IMHO the most entertaining period of that game.
Yeah, I thought it was GREAT. However, I left after Pyro and HT left, and know little of what's happened there other than reading argo's board every once in a while.
I was struck while reading Hammel's Aces over Germany and Aces over Japan at how often pilots had to transfer into TOTALLY disimilar AC.
Not getting to fly one plane type for long periods was part of World War II reality.
Yet there's a vocal, annoying, anal-retentive minority in flight sims that leaves sims after having a conniption fit when the one aircraft they fly constantly isn't avaliable for any period of time in an RPS.
That's one thing I find totally incomprehensible.
The most idiotic is the old "I pay X dollars and I have a RIGHT to fly plane X any time I want to". Give me a break.
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What Verm said. You have a point, Funked, but IMHO an RPS isn't the answer.
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all for rps loved it in wb planes are somwhat balenced .
dweeb single plane squads hate it .
got to love it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I'm a person that wants historical match up's..so to me an RPS makes sense.
I'm not a 1 plane guy, but I'm a 1 country guy so at least I would have a 109 in every week (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Wingnut
Luftjagerkorps
(http://www.facelink.com/edit/raw/rawimage/27/1444127.gif)
The quality of the box matters little. Success depends upon the man who sits in it - Baron Manfred von Richthofen
[This message has been edited by Wingnut_0 (edited 01-20-2001).]
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Yep. I'm one-dimensional. I happen to like flying the P51D. When it became available for 9 days outta every thirty, I left that sim.
When and if it becomes available for 9 days outta every thirty here; I'll leave this one too.
I'm not insisting that AH do anything.. I'm just making it clear that if they do it here, I'll vote with my wallet and feet. You gentlmen wish an RPS? Great!! Fly your RPS schedule.. which in my opinion is just a means of getting the rest of the pilots to fly in planes of YOUR chosing; not theirs.
I don't fly a F4u1c. Nor a Niki. Or a nancy boy spitfire. Why do you wanna take my plane away?? So you can deny those pilots theirs? Who the hell you think yer kiddin? Bored? Fire up yer mission planner and get involved in the GAME. Yah I hate Chogs; but the way to get rid of 'em ain't with an RPS, and fellas, hate to burst the bubble but the 1C was out before the 1D. Wanna get rid of that annoying high alt chawg.. then gawdammit, outfly his bellybutton and shoot him down. Don't legislate it into a limited plane set to assauge yer piss poor piloting skills at MY gawdamned expense.
Screw this nonsense. Put everybody inna zeke with unlimited gas and ammo.. quake birds all over. Yes; I've flown RPS and it SUCKED.
When WB's was hourly; those that did not like the RPS sets just did not fly. No expousure, no expense to the customer. This sim's flat rate.. not hourly. The deal here would stink even worse. Thirty bucks a month.. my plane fer nine days. No sale.
Sheesh, fediddlein weenies callin me a weasel fer speakin my piece on a roadkill troll.. hell we ain't even got the perk system out yet and you guys are runnin to the most rotten thing I ever heard of in a slim planeset sim like this... just to limit a dweeb plane.
Panzies. Fly and Die like men.
Hang
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Historical matchups are great fun, but the RPS is a pain in the neck. Perhaps we could just have a separate arena with historical matchups that change weekly.
With a rolling plane set, planes are like computers, once you get it, it's obsolete in a day or two. You never really get aquainted with it.
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Although I much prefer having all planes available all the time, a rolling plane set appeals to those wanting more limited progressive historical options. If Aces High does an RPS, hopefully it will be only as an additional theater option like WarBirds does while keeping its Main Arena available.
Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on your point of view, in WarBirds the rolling plane set(World War II Arena) gets most of the action; sometimes the Main Arena offering all planes all the time is empty.
At the other extreme, the Realism Arena in WarBirds usually has few players because with its much more limited visual aids, it is difficult seeing airplanes until you're right on top of them.
All three WarBirds arena options (and there are also periodic reenactments like Midway)are excellent -- just depends on what you want.
If Aces High prefers to concentrate on only one arena, let it be the total full choice it is now. Simulations on computer screens need lots of help to compensate for their limited sensory scope. That translates into max FUN which means max revenue and max product growth.
If additional arenas are deemed necessary, for the most serious competitors how about a Top Gun Arena that offers only ONE fighter plane type at a time? Equal rides for everyone, e.g., Spit vs. Spit. If such jousting catches on, perhaps someday might want arenas for navy and ground too, e.g., tank vs. tank.
Meanwhile, the present full option arena is a competitive delight. It's the No Excuses Arena. Choose and go, and make your own luck.
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Each week that passes by, the area grows in numbers and we're getting closer to AW dying its natural death.
In due time - we will have enough players to fill two arenas - and then we can have a current MA and some sort of HA with RPS in it.
Up to that point - HTC cannot afford to alienate customers - not yet.
RPS and generations implementations are fun but cause a toejamload of whining..
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Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF
Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998
Northolt Wing Headquarters (http://www.raf303.org/northolt/)
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Lol, Give it up Funky-one, this is a damn good GAME.
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Originally posted by Hangtime:
Yep. I'm one-dimensional. I happen to like flying the P51D. When it became available for 9 days outta every thirty, I left that sim.
Ok. Do you find flying the P-51B or the Mustang I (Allison engine) TOTALLY intolerable?
No one is suggesting an RPS until there are a LOT more planes. For many makes of planes, people will be able to fly some version of it for virtually the entire war (Spit, 109, etc.) The Mustang has to be wait a bit to come in, but in any RPS once we have the full range of Mustang variants it's clear you'd be able to fly a Mustang MOST of the RPS. NOT 1/3 of it.
If you're such an anal-retentive tool that you simply can't tolerate, say, a 51 without 6 .50s for a while, or one without a full-viz bubble canopy, or one that's limited at high altitudes (that's still an amazing plane where most of the combat in the MA takes place, and in fact would be MORE dominating in the mid-war portion of an RPS), well, then don't let the door hit your bellybutton on the way out of AH. I have no sympathy for you whatsover.
And, btw, I fly a P-51D most of the time too.
Yah I hate Chogs; but the way to get rid of 'em ain't with an RPS, and fellas, hate to burst the bubble but the 1C was out before the 1D.[/b]
Actually, this is incorrect. The D was in combat before the C, I believe.
And 6x.50 armed Hogs were in combat 3 years before the C Hog. The D Hog is, I believe, simply the designation for the first Corsairs to come out of the factory with the bomb and rocket racks; however, this modification was done in the field on the majority of Hogs.
Wanna get rid of that annoying high alt chawg.. then gawdammit, outfly his bellybutton and shoot him down. Don't legislate it into a limited plane set to assauge yer piss poor piloting skills at MY gawdamned expense..[/b]
Give me . It's an idiotic, tired old argument to portray everyone who wants an RPS as people who want an RPS for the sole purpose of getting rid of the Chog, or they want to get an RPS to get rid of certain planes they get killed by too much.
People want an RPS because they want a more interesting and challenging game with a varied series of matchups.
If you think people want an RPS because they don't like the Chog, you're a moron.
[This message has been edited by Torgo (edited 01-21-2001).]
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One more thing...
Once mid and early war aircraft are added..
There is NO SUCH THING as a "Total Full Choice" arena.
Technically, yes, in an arena where you can choose every aircraft, you can pick an MC202 or a P-40 or a P-39 and take off.
But you can't ACTUALLY use it. It's DE FACTO unavaliable.
In reality, it's just as unuseable in a "full choice" non-RPS arena as the P-51D is in 1942 in an RPS arena.
An RPS INCREASES choice. It doesn't reduce it.
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If you're such an anal-retentive tool that you simply can't tolerate, say, a 51 without 6 .50s for a while.. If you think people want an RPS because they don't like the Chog, you're a moron.
Torgo; you spineless wussy; you say that to my face; I'd knock yah on yer panzy ass. I ain't nobodys TOOL and last time anybody tried yankin my chain they found I wasn't a moron either.
What I fly is what I want to fly.. and not what YOU think I should fly to satisfy yer piss poor skills... or your mishappen idea of what an appropiriate planeset is for the Main Arena. No; Torgo.. RPS does not represent more choices.. do the fediddlein math..
You advocate historcal matchup for MA.. but you don't consider the fact that all countries are flying exactly the same planes.. so just like WB's RPS it'll be low spits and zekes fighting low spits and zekes while 109's B&Z 'em when they're not fighting each other up top. By the end of the week; everybodys in a 109. What you want is a HA.. not RPS.
And yes I want a HA.. have been lobbying for one for months. Yes; I like historcal matchups.. and I'd love to have a P51B.. and if yah didn't have an bellybutton where yer mouth is you'd know THAT too. What i don't want is to have the plane I started flyin this sim to fly; a bird thats been in it from day ONE suddenly yanked from the roster FOR ANY REASON.
RPS is a great HA idea with plane types limited to countries.. but not fer MA with this limited planeset.
Sorry fer the vent everybody.. but dammit; I take toejame like that from nobody; anywhere, anytime.
Hang
[This message has been edited by Hangtime (edited 01-21-2001).]
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Hangtime,
There are people whose favorite planes aren't even in the damn GAME yet and they manage to play it and have fun, amazingly enough.
Just answer the question:
If you had to fly a P51 without a bubble canopy, or without 6 x .50s for some period of time, is that SO INTOLERABLE you'd cry like a spoiled baby on the boards for a couple days and then you'd quit AH?
I assume the answer is "yes".
And drop the retarded "skills" crap. An RPS doesn't help people who can't fly so there's no reason for poor pilots to advocate an RPS. They'd die just as much, just in different planes getting killed by planes that are different.
You're obviously incapable of having a rational discussion about this, given your propensity to propose the laughably stupid concept that people only want an RPS to get rid of the CHog, or to make the game easier for them.
I mean, I COULD make the argument that it's the people that DON'T want an RPS that have "piss poor" skills. I mean, someone that can ONLY fly one plane obviously is someone who can't adjust to anything new and has a limited range of air combat skills.
I won't, though. I'm sure you're a fine pilot. Better than me (well, almost everyone is, I'm still having horrendous problems with my stick setups in AH and my long layoff between WB and AH.)
I just think you're an utterly selfish whiner. You can't tolerate flying , say, a P-40 for a brief period, then an early version of the 51, then a 51D for the last third of the game, in order to allow an EXPLOSION in the number of planetypes and changing matchups? And allowing for many players whose favorite WWII plane was an early or mid war plane to simply fly that plane at all? That all has to be subordinated to Hangtime's God-Given Constitutional Right to fly a P-51D 24/7?
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Torgo.. kiss my ass; call it a love story. Go fly WB's you want RPS.
Enuff.
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"I don't fly a F4u1c. Nor a Niki. Or a nancy boy spitfire."
And you fly a grab and bag E Pony like it's not one of the whine-wagons, or better?
Seems like the point is made, 10 fold.
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LOL.. right Creamo.. but which point? The point that folks are tired of c-hawgs and niki's or ponies or any other 'dweeb plane of the week'? The point that some folks are advocating RPS because they'd like to see a respite from the late war planes tearing up their fave early war planes?
No matter what I think of the chawg; I've never advocated removing it or any other vehicle or object that HTC has modeled in MA play. Isn't the MA is about flying intersting planes ships and vehicles and using them in interesting ways on interesting objectives? MA is "What If" not "What Was".. isn't it?
YES; we need a HA.. but don't RPS the MA. More scenarios.. yes! More snapshots.. yes!
All of us forced to fly spitfires and 109's for a week? In MA? No.
I'll slither back under my rock now. Pardon me.
[This message has been edited by Hangtime (edited 01-21-2001).]
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Are you people experiencing menstrual flow or what? There is so much putrid blood spilled out here it makes me wonder if you have all sprouted breasts and vaginas under those balding caps and protruding guts?
the Perk system is an obvious attempt to mimick RPS. Lets see what sort of damage that causes before going any further.
[This message has been edited by Yeager (edited 01-21-2001).]
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Damn; yer right Yeag; where was my head... I shoulda just let some bozo with less time in an AH cockpit than I've put in a chute call me an anal retentive tool, moron and a whiner. Dissenting opinons regarding RPS notwithstanding.. of course. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Gawd, the pennance will be atrocious. Popcorn; anyone?
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quote:
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Originally posted by lazs:
Well... you knew I was gonna say it...
There is however a simple workable solution that could be easily implemented that would allow for not only different plane sets but balance and parity amongst them... One arena and... Total freedom and choice. Variety, parity and action... New planes would easily be incorporated wether they be early war or late war uber planes without being at either a huge disadvantage or a huge advantage but....
Un
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>>>Huh? What on earth are you talking about?
Oh no! Now you've done it...Lazs is gonna post his big area idea again :P
Personally, I prefer the earlier planes (flashbacks to the days of Red Baron on TSN), the only way I can see to get everyone on an equal footing (plane quality wise) is an RPS. However, if it means losing customers, I don't see them changing our current system.
My greater fear is this damn "jerk" ...er "pork" ... er "perk" system. This will do to AH what make-up did to Tammy Fay. I wonder how long I (and others) will put up with this system at $30/month before dropping my account...or how long it stays a part of the game.
I could tolerate others getting better rides if I was paying $9/month, but when I pay the same as anyone else (apparently more than some ;( ) why shouldn't I be allowed to fly the better planes. Just cause my wife and family don't allow me the luxury to play this >game< as much as I'd like for fun and to improve my game skill, I'm screwed.
I wait with bated breath to see how this thing works...bated breath = $30.
Back to the RPS, I don't see how it could work with our current plane set. As someone stated earlier, wait a few months and see what we get. P40B & E, Hurricane, P51B, P47B, early Russian plane or two, maybe a 109E, F4F, A6M2, how about a FRENCH plane? Most or all of these would be necessary to make it really work.
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I agree with Funked's post it is a great idea but IMO we don't have the plane set yet to fill in all the time periods. Maybe after ,like it was said before ,get more people interested in the sim as regulars and get all planes put here maybe then HTC might be able to make that.
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Glasses---I may have 4 eyes ,but you only have one wing.
(http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/glasses.htm)
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Funked:
Would be a positive sign to see AH implement a RPS and Allies/Axis arena separate from the MA (How's that Hangtime (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif). Pyro said a few months back that I should come back in a few months and then say if the Allied/Axis arena was a success or not.
Well, I can safely say its been a success in Warbirds. No one flies the old style MA any more. Those that want the arcade style game of color vs color and all planes enabled are few and far between now. However, it is still available if folks want to fly that way.
While the Axis vs Allied arena isn't perfect, and we got some major Flight Model issues that are being fixed, most would rather fly against historical adversaries, then the alternative of shooting down the same plane you are flying.
Yeah, there are arena balancing issues that come up, but I would much rather engage a 109F or Zeke in my spit 5 then engage another allied plane. I dunno, more satisfaction in shooting them down for me. Plus the RPS let's you improve your skill set as you move later in the RPS you go from stictly T&B type fighting to B&Z style. Helps relieve the boredom that can set in flying the same thing over and over again.
For my current squad and many other historical based squads, its not perfect, but its the best set up going to simulate WW2 dogfighting IMO.
BTW, one point you should all realize by now. Players flock to where the masses are. If you start a new arena and its enjoyable, don't be surprised if your other arenas suffer. The herd mentality seems to be what drives people to select one arena over another.
No one wants to fly with few people. I had thought the HA's popularity would soar once WB went to flat rate, I was dead wrong. When people log on, they go right to arena where the most players are, whether they like that arena or not. Human nature I guess.
Good luck with trying to get a RPS started here. I'm not sure AH is mature enough for it yet, but you guys would know best.
Ram1
31st Fighter Group
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Don't get me wrong - I don't want an Axis vs Allies arena. Nor am I making the argument that my RPS proposal is "historical". I just think it would create more interesting matchups and provide for more variety in the planes seen in the arena.
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torgo and sky... yep.... The "one big arena" idea. It ain't perfect but it sure beats everything else I've seen so far. With one big arena and seperate "areas" for early, mid and late war, you would eliminate the problem of a deserted arena because... As ram1 says... people go to where the numbers are but the "numbers" would all be in the same arena.
In the one big arena sceme, no late or mid war planes would be able to get to the early war ones... There would be easily adjusted parity. If a person wanted to check out early war or whatever planes he could simply look at the map. People could get their friends to go from one area to another a hell of a lot easier than it is to get them to go from one arena to another now....especially in light of the fact that you don't know what you will find in another arena until you waste a lot of time changing and looking around. With radar you would be able to see exactly what was going on in the "area" style arena in early, mid, and late war planesets.
With one big arena you would have unlimited plane choice. If you only wanted to fly P51's forever you could do so... You may not have as many targets but you would likeley have some action.
ram1 I would argue that axis vs allied is not a success in WB. for a long established sim that is flat rate and $5 a month cheaper ( a big deal to some) and has a player base with a lot of time invested in the sim (a big deal for allmost all) and a huge planeset.... It is not doing much better than AH. It is akin to the bombing in germany and german ac production. axis vs allied hasn't killed player numbers but it sure has killed the increase in players one would have expected given all the advantages WB has.
lazs
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PERK THE 51!!!
I like the idea Funked, but so long as its in a second arena.
AKskurj
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Originally posted by Hangtime:
When and if it becomes available for 9 days outta every thirty here; I'll leave this one too
Hang...Stop it. when you left Wb you came here right? and where are you going to go if you leave AH?...WWIIOL? Starting from 1939?...IL2?...with Russian TO planeset?...Back to Wb?...with its RPS?.
its kinda funny that I tell you this, but if you start saying "I quit" and then you actually quit you'll be back. I've been there, tried Wb,and been back here. The difference is that when I get WWIIOL and Il2 I will have more choices because I like all WWII planes (except nancyfires and Chogs (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif))...you wont be happy there.
And please stop one of your arguments "people here wants RPS to get rid of Chogs and N1K2s".
While I really LOVE the idea to get rid of them, my pro-RPS argument has nothing to do with it. I'd really LOVE to see the planesets advance thru the time, to fly and fight 109Es, Spits I, Ju87s, MiG3s, MC200s, etc. And then advance trhu historical planesets, given by some years each week (39-40-41, 42-43, 44-45).
You seem to be pinned in your P51D, man. I'd tell you to try another thing but I know you won't. But I ask you, that it an early Curtiss Warhawk P40B was included in the early planeset (1st week), a P51A and an A-36 Apache in the medium planeset (2nd week) and the P51B and P51D in the latest planeset...
I ask you, I say, would you REALLY leave AH?. the P40 is like the P51's father (damn, look the P51A and the P40...from the firewall backwards they are twins!!!), and its an US product, thing that you consider almost impassable for you to fly something in the arenas.
The P51A is a very good low alt fighter, and the A-36 a dual role fighter bomber.
YOu really find that unnaceptable? then let me tell you that I am in that situation.
I have a Fw190A5. 1943 plane.
I have a Fw190A8. 1944 plane (but worse than the A5)
I DONT HAVE A FW190D9! AND I DONT LEAVE FOR THAT REASON (though I may for many others hehe (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)).
So take your pills, and stay here, because you AINT goin' nowhere.
Torgo...well man, kick out your feet from the toejam you just put it in.
Hangtime has been asking for a Malcom hood P51B for MONTHS. And he has repeatedly said that he'd fly it over the D anytime, regardless its two MG less. So you really blewed this one.
And he is possibly the P51D pilot that can turn that pony the best. At least that I've seen (all the rest climb to 30K, and dive and run, nothing else).
Now, I'll say what I think about funked's idea (not that anyone here can give a ratz prettythang about my opinion (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) but I'll give it anyway).
With the current planeset we can't hold a RPS. Period. not only we lack REAL early-war planes, but we lack bombers. We have the Ju88, but that's it. With HTC's plans of bringing a big planeset in future versions, maybe in some months we can start thinking seriously in it.
Said that I also think that we need a REAL HA and not a RPS MA. two sides (to the hell with the 3-sided daily ganbang), one axis one allied. A RPS. 5K icons. REALISTIC BUFF GUNNERY, engine management, etc.
I would love a RPS on the MA, but I understand those who wont (only american, I figure that used to fly sissy P51s, to fly P39s and P40s is a bit nasty hehe (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)).
Anyway hopefully in a not-so-far future we'll see a HA. With RPS (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 01-21-2001).]
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no need for an RPS till there is a lot more planes, historically matched sides and a new axis vs allies arena. btw there were more variants of the P-51 than the P-51D (A-36 apache, P-51A, P-51B, P-51C, P-51d etc.)
leave the stupid MA the way it is as a total chog fest.
[This message has been edited by Citabria (edited 01-21-2001).]
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Thanks fer trying to cool the fire RAM.. <S>
I've never threatened to 'quit' this sim over any issue.. except this. When I left WB's I didn't fly a WWII on-line sim for almost a year.. til this was released in beta. "I quit rants" are in poor taste.. but how else do I let the developer know what would motivate me to leave?
Example.. Yer married. Yer wife gets bored with the same ol thing; and anounces she wants to introduce to the relationship other guys... RMS. Weell; yah really love her, right?? But the thought of having to deal with only having access to her one week outta four kinda tosses you into a fit.... you get my drift.
RPS was a miserable way to play a warbird game. Instead of flying spit v 109, it was spit v spit or 109 v 109. I thought it sucked, frankly. Fewer planes; same 'ol same type vs same type kind of play... now hindered by fewer planes across the B&Z to T&B spectrum.
Here the MA is a pretty lively place.. innovative "what if" flying; with all a/c types often mission oriented in use. Yery dynamic; lots of diffrent choices for how to spend your time.
Sure; we're about to critical mass on player numbers and I suspect a HA will arrive shortly.. I think we need one. I think it oughta have historical matchups of country vs country or be one BIG place with plane types limited to fields.. aka 'countrys'. Put RPS THERE. But don't put RPS in the 'main' arena.
Hang
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If and when AH gets the early war planes, there will HAVE to be a "gameplay adjustment" to permit them to be used competitively (and thereby justify the resources used to create them). What would be the point of creating a Hurricane I without a place to fly it as something other than a target for 1945 planes?
Now, what that gameplay adjustment turns out to be is debatable. You could run simultaneous Early- and Late-war Arenas, at the risk of splitting the players up or having one (probably the early-war) usually empty. You could have two "counter-rotating" RPS arenas, where it's early war one place and late war in tht other. Or you could have a "fun" arena and a "historic" arena, and put the RPS into the historic one. Or, try Lazs' idea and get a huge map where the "early war" area is far separated from the "late war" area, all in the same arena, but you can't tell from the lobby who's where, so you don't have to follow the mob to one arena over another.
Right now there's probably not enough planes to put in the RPS, but there will be soon, and there will have to be some concession made to the guys who love the early war iron.
And IMO, if you're going to have a perk system, the only way it will work is if it's married to an RPS.
P.S. 99% of the objections to the RPS will disappear if you model the F4U-1 Birdcage, P-51A, A-36, and Razorback Jug (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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I vote yes for historical matchup. I get sick of flying against the same plane I'm flying and I fly a bunch of different planes.
I like the CONCEPT of RPS but not necessarily the reality.
I loved the WW2 axis/allies arean in WB. Huge success, much fun.
More planes yes, second arena yes, Lazs' one big arena idea . . . . . hmmmmmmmmm...interesting
hatman, out
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Lazs:
I like your big arena idea, it would certainly solve alot of issues.
As for your comment on how WB is doing, the players base is increasing. Between all the arenas as well as Dawn of Aces arena there are well over 300-400 flying every night at peak hours.
Ram1
[This message has been edited by Ram1 (edited 01-22-2001).]
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Damn Ram1....
I guess Im gonna have to step up my AH Recruitment program over on AGW (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
jk....of course (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Yeager
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I'd like to see a good RPS. I'm sure we'll have this choice soon.
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ram... solving issues is what it is all about. I've watched so many RPS ideas tried and fail that I think I have a feel for em by now. Much as I like early war I have to admit that the numbers go to mid war.... Where the biggest amount of parity and variety is.
AH has canyons and water etc. Imagine a map with an early war canyon area and 3-6 fields. turn and burning early war planes through those canyons.... tire of that? Look at the map and see some carrier action in the Mid war (largest area) and do that or.... join a bombing escort or whatever mission in the late war area... Not what you expected? Ok, click on back to canyon world... Talk a few buddies into going with you.
Any new plane can be introduced and be instantly useful... die hard one plane guys can more easily experiment with new AC.... New guys will be able to find their nich easier.... everyone will have all the choice and parity they want.... Best of all it will make the idiotic and unfair perk system obsolete.
lazs
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An RPS will inevitably fail if you don't have enough Early/Mid War AC.
Implementing one too soon is what kills it. People just start thinking "RPSes are bad" instead of "This particular RPS is bad."
The more AC, the more gradual the "rolling" and the less sharp the peaks of uber-planeness and the shorter the periods of uber-planeness.
Perk can also save RPS. Inevitably you have stretches of uber-aircraft.....Use of Perk for certain new aircraft (like the Focke-Wulf when it first shows up, for example) that is gradually removed as the RPS rolls along (and, incidentally, as the numbers of the aircraft grew in reality) can help limit the problem.
So we're obviously ages and ages from one in AH.
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Shame on you Hang!!! I cant't believe you would speak your mind or for that matter, feel qualified after only 10yrs or so of living what some here are advocating. You are way out of line! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Look...this community is diverse...some early war guys, some late war guys, some nice guys and some simpleminded folks, and a whole bunch in the middle. Everyones opinion is valid to the extent that it should be expressed.
RPS? Not enough planes for it to happen....yet.
Perk thingie? Who knows? Time will tell that one.
What do we do in the meantime? Whatever floats out boats!
Hang is right about one thing for sure...some folks here feel that in order to validate themselves, they have to try and coerce others into playing or flying or takin a whiz the way they think it should be done.
If I had a dollar everytime someone spouted off about no skill ack huggin alt grabbin runnin away 51 pilots, I'de play this sim for free (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Fact of the matter is, I don't fly this sim to make others feel good...I fly it to kill the enemy, if others don't like that, then I consider that a good thing. It makes killin them that much sweeter for me.
RPS...Perk...whatever HTC chooses to do, I'll make my choice...but to say that Hangs opinion is not valid, or anyone elses for that matter is.....well.....not nice (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Ice
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torgo...WB had 50 planes and their RPS was/is allways unbalanced,unfair and unfun for a lot of people. For people who hate early war planes there is NO choice but to abstain during early war periods plus..... There is very little choice.... Not a good thing. Introducing a 190 in '42 makes FW guys happy but everyone just flies em or leaves. There is no balance at all. Every set save a very few is just the same old problem.... No choice and no parity.
New guys have it even worse. The idiotic perk system assures that the arena is unfair AT ALL TIMES for everyone but even more so for new guys.. Anyone who can't see that is either lying to me or lying to themselves. If you absolutely must have tha ultra late war uber rides then I suppose you could (cough) "perk" em for the late war area in the arena.... I mean... I don't care how bad you screw up that area anyway.
RPS doesn't work but... you need a way to introduce early and late war planes without losing parity or choice.... "perk" loses parity.... RPS loses both parity and choice.
My idea loses neither.
lazs
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I personally think RPS is the way to go, and because perks are coming no matter what, the original idea of 'buying' newer a/c seems the way to satisfy both ends of the argument. But RPS is only suitable when earlier types are introduced.
I still play WB on occasion, and because I'm not strapped into the "my fav a/c or nothing" syndrome..i couldnt care less if the Chog/Stang wasn't available on demand cause some of the best fights happen in early war a/c..that have no E, and you really do need to wooddonut someone to death.
Thats when that thing called..umm skill is called upon, and you have to be flexible in your tactics..
But cause every prototype/sub variant of the '44-45 range is to be modelled first..we won't have to worry bout it..
-tronski-
486 Sqn (NZ), "Hiwa hau Maka"
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"Yep. I'm one-dimensional. I happen to like flying the P51D. When it became available for 9 days outta every thirty, I left that sim."
"Instead of flying spit v 109, it was spit v spit or 109 v 109. I thought it sucked, frankly."
Hang, P51 is 9 days out of 21. And no such thing as a 109 vs 109 or Spit vs Spit in Warbirds.
"WB had 50 planes and their RPS was/is allways unbalanced,unfair and unfun for a lot of people."
I don`t agree Lazs. To each his own. What you find boring I find fun. (60 aircraft BTW not 50) For what we have to work with I think the community did a fantastic job with the Axis vs Allied RPS making it as balanced as possible:
Warbirds RPS (http://www.ozemail.com.au/~peril/wbraaf/rps/rps21g.html)
"For people who hate early war planes there is NO choice but to abstain during early war periods plus..... There is very little choice.... Not a good thing."
I could say the same for AH being all later war planes and having deal with the same old same old 24/7. Very little choice...not a good thing.
See my point? Always 2 sides.
I am a Pony driver, but to be honest with you after 9 days of it I`m ready to take a break. I love the RPS, never the same when I go on-line. I love early war and flying the underdog P-40 against 109E`s. It is a great match-up. With an all out arena I would never get a chance to fly my P-40 against competitive counterparts. And after 4 days of the P-40 I`m ready to jump into a P-39, then P38, then P-47 and so on. When the Stang comes out I`m ready to rock-and-roll he he (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
And I also have my regular fix of awesome scenarios throughout the 3 weeks of RPS.
A comment on everybody goes where the croud it. That is true only to a point. The last time the WB Axis / Allied Arena crashed, (due to over population (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)) guess where everybody went? Not the MA. 80% went to the Historical Arena, 15% went to the Advanced Arena, and 5% went to the MA.
That tells me that most would prefer a historical match-up of aircraft than an all-out pick-up game of basketball as HTC described the MA.
IMHO I don`t think AH is ready for an RPS.
But let me know when you do, I will try out that free trial on-line (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Skybax
328th Fighter Squadron
www.352ndFighterGroup.com (http://www.352ndFighterGroup.com)
Blue Nosed Bastards of Bodney
[This message has been edited by sky_bax (edited 01-23-2001).]
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sky with a one big "area" arena early war planes would only fight early war planes mid would only fight mid and late would only fight late. Without an axis vs allied same ol same ol you would have some variety not simply fighting the same ol 109 190 over and over. What could be more fair than a P40 vs a P40?
The times in a RPS that are unbalanced so far as plane performance go, make for WB like numbers of 30 vs 100 or so... Who likes that? To say that WB does the best it can to create balance (with ONLY 60 planes!) is correct.... They do try.... but that's all they do is try... They never succeed. RPS just doesn't work for most people.
Look... I don't want to force anyone to fly the planes or even the way i like to fly... I want them to have as many choices as possible and to choose whatever planes/style they like. So far..... My idea for an area arena seems to be the only solution that is even remotely close to achieving this as far as I can tell.
Everyone else seems content to keep making the same mistakes over and over.... Some, just trying to be as fair as possible whjile others are simply (and transparently) hoping that they can sneak in their preference before anyone notices that they have been scammed and it is too late..... Like in WB.
lazs
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Lazs:
I stole your idea and running with it over at AGW. Hope you don't mind, but the more I think about the more I think it will solve alot of issues.
Technically I'm not sure this can be pulled off yet, but we shall see.
Ram1
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Raml, Lazs,
Big arena idea is crap. It sounds noice but it is not feasable.
It is a common knowlege that AH load is determined by the size of the arena and the total number of the objects in the arena. Not the best way to program but who am I to critique HTC for rolling out a brilliant product in six months!
So I would either have a choice to fly my I-16 in a flat featureless arena with almost no buildings and other ground detail, or have my frame rate in single digits just because 262s have an opportunity to fly 1200 miles away from me?
miko
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This one is very easy to solve,
Once the planeset is larger...
Main arena - any plane
seperate arena - RPS or HA (or both)
The players that post on this BBS are a minority of the total players in AH.
Let the numbers speak for themselves.
A handfule of BBS'ers that write so adamantly and frequently do not necessarily speak for the whole.
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At the risk of being called names:
I would like to see a RPS when there is a sufficient plane set to support it.
Regards,
Wab
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miko... addmitedly I am computer (and every other kind) illiterate but I have run this by people who are very well versed and... They see no problem with it. The early and late war "areas" in the arena would be much smaller (less fields) and that would be fine since less people would fly in em anyway. The early war would be in the "canyon world" part of the map wher late war planes don't (or shouldn't) use as it is.
Overall, the map for the "area" arena would not be much, if any, larger than the one we have now. certainly, it would handle a couple hundred players. As it is... a lot of fields are pretty much dormant in our arenas. they are too far from the action to be used much. It would take a little juggling but not much enlarging to effectively get 3 arenas (one mid size and two small) in one.
along the same lines... The BARE minimum I would ask for is that if we must have three seperate arenas is that.... the maps for each be accesable from each... Be able to view each arena map from any arena in other words and.... be able to "click" onto any airfield in any arena from any other arena to change from one arena to the next. You would of course, have each arena's radar available when you brought up it's map.
Ram1.. Not sure it would work as well with axis vs allied. There just isn't enough variety and/or parity with some parts of the rps and a two sided war just aggravates the numbers imbalance. I fear that in an axis vs allied/two sided war, you would have three "areas" that were each unbalanced numbers and ac performance wise. In a WB situation of axis vs allied my idea would do nothing for numbers imbalance in each "area" and very little for variety. All it would accomplish would be to give people a choice of which unbalanced "area" they would like to fly in without them having to wait for that time to come up as they do now..
lazs
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Lazs,
The way you descrobe it is how it is really done in many online first-person role-playing games, like Everquest. There are many different arenas linked to each other so a player transitions from one to another. I am sure MSFS 2000 scenery is done like that too.
Using such scheme would be the only way to create a huge (whole earth?) arena, it is a major rewrite for both the front end and the server.
If they spend a year on it without producing planes we woold be pissed off.
If they produce plenty of planes, drop them all into MA and then spend a year to make linked virtual arenas to use those planes we would be pissed off too (except for those who only want to fly the latest model planes).
Why would they bother to do early-war planes if noone would fly them in the MA?
While we wait for the linked virtual arenas I would want a RPS in MA or a non-empty arena where flying early-war planes would not be serving a target drone for late war uber-planes.
miko
[This message has been edited by miko2d (edited 01-23-2001).]
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No miko... take the size map we have with just a few more fields maybe, and assign 3-6 each for early and late war only... Leave the majority in the center mid war. Make 40K mountain ranges or have the fuel dissapear as you cross the "border". As the plane set grows so would the map perhaps.
lazs