Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Eagler on July 20, 2001, 01:25:00 PM
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What are they demonstrating for?? What do they think to gain by being so violent? Heard one demonstrator got shot in the head today. Sorry, they lost my sympathy and interest when I see them tearing up roads to hurl the stones at the local businesses and other assorted violence. Looks like another excuse for mob driven idiotic senseless violence. http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010720/ts/group_leadall_dc_12.html (http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010720/ts/group_leadall_dc_12.html)
[ 07-20-2001: Message edited by: Eagler ]
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Some people want their ideas implemented so much, that they disregard wishes of the public and force their ideas with violence. Usually they have some kind of "common good" justification for their actions too. Such people are called tyrants and those demonstrators are the clearest example of a tyrant type.
If people did not want global corporations, they would not be buying their products.
If people did not want their governments signing global treaties, they would elect different governments.
If people wanted conservation, they would conserve, period.
There are at least two democratic ways to affect the outcome:
1. Conduct political propaganda campaign in order to get representation in the government and make the laws they want. There are quite a few one-issue candidates here who get elected.
2. Conduct education/explanation campaign to persuade people to conserve and not to buy products of corporations that are "misbehaving". The campaighn agaisnt Nike and sweatshops was quite effective - at least here in US.
Of course those protestors know wery well that they would not get any public support - public does not share their views.
Since they disregard the will of the people, they resort to violence. it is very easy for them to disregard the will of the people because whoever does not support them must be stupid or wrong and has to be helped whether public wants it or not.
If they had more power, they would try to grab the power like communists in Russia in 1917 or in Cuba so that they could bring bright future to the people who are too stupid to know what's good for them. If a few get hurt in the process, it's for the common good, right?
What's new?
miko
[ 07-20-2001: Message edited by: miko2d ]
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WTG Italian Police!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Im so happy one of those retard Communist/Anarchist kids got killed.
I honestly hope many many many more of these idiots are shot to death in the following protests. They are asking for it, and deserve it.
Once again, WTG Italian Police!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Ouch Grun, tough words bud!
These violent demonstrations are a good example of what happens when children are poorly educated, and easily brainwashed.
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Let's see, wear a skimask, tear toejam up and fight the police. Sounds like a fun weekend to me, but I don't think it will have much effect on anything.
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The problem are the politicians, who were demonstrating in the '60s.
They think, that someone, who is rioting on the street against the goverment, must be right by definition. It doesn't matter, what is on their banner, as long as they throw stones, they must have some good ideas
:rolleyes:
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But...but...they're out there fighting for your right to live in an anarchic society!
Yeah, I've no sympathy for any twit that dresses in full battle gear and charges at police.
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I have no sympathy for these idiots..
but being happy for their deaths?
diddly you grunherz.
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Animal:
You have never lived in a country where the government is founded on that fellow's beliefs....
Im not happy for that "individuals" death. Im not so blinded by my utter hatred of his idiotic behavior and beliefs to not realize that he is a real person with a real life, and a real life story, who woke up that morning for the last time, whose father or mother spoke to him a few days ago, who may be a young father for all I know. Such a loss brings me no joy.
However im deeply satisfied to see the that ski-masked leftist/anarchist hooligan who threw molotov cocktails at the police and local business just 5 minutes before the picture was taken lying there dead.
Im diddlying sick of these little middle class/rich western European and US kids prancing around chanting the benefefits of Communism and anarchy in 2001. I have lived in a Communist country. Its no good. These idiots are just that neo-Leftist radicals and wannabe revolutinaries just like their greatgrandfathers were in the first 30years of this century. They are terrorists, no different than Hizbullah, no different than the Jewish terrorists in mid 1940s Israel/Palestine, no different than IRA, no different than neo-Nazi skinhead idiots, no different than any bunch of violent gangs that do this kind of crap.
Apparently he was also part of a fring group of "demonstrators" who travel to these events JUST TO ATTACK THE POLICE. These type of people dress up in ski masks and steel hardhats and put on extensive padding and gasmaks in order to directly combat the police. They bring molotov cocktails other weapons. They are asking the police, who are also just other people, for trouble.
This bastard was unlucky but it was bound to happend. Mobs of people dont directly attack
armed police and get away with it without going too far sooner or later. This one went to far. If you have read some of the reports one.
I dont wanna write anymore about these people. Im sad a person lost his life, but im happy to see that photo there with that ski-masked terrorist dead.
I donno maybe thats a contradiction but its how I honestly feel Animal.
I can certainly understand how you feel about what I said as well.
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I find it strange that some people argue that, having the right to bear arms is nescessary. This is so they can, if need be, defend themselves from what they may see as a tyrantical government. Then when someone percieves a threat from a government and they 'defend' themselves, they're concidered terrorists. The hypocracy is rich. If a person raises arms and you don't agree, they're terrorists. If you happen to agree, they're patriots? Wierd.
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Supporting the right to keep arms, I fully expect to be shot if I brandish it towards a policeman.
What is amusing is anarchy demonstrators whining about some supposed lack of discipline in the police ranks, because one of them was killed attacking them.
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Yes
If you agree with them they are heroes.
If you disagree with them they are terrorists.
Whats the news?
Thrawn do you think your post is particularly insightful?
What exactly are they rising up against? These middle class/rich kids (everyone in Western Europe/USA is relativly rich in the global context) are mindlessly fighting against something or for something, I certainly cant say wahat but then again they dont seem quite sure either.
On one hand they claim to be for:
Environmental protecion.
Workers rights and safety.
Human rights.
Global action vs AIDS in Africa.
Opposition to genetically altered foods.
Anti-Globalization.
But they are also openly Socialst/Communist and Anarchist:
So far their beloved Socialist wonderlands have given us.
150+million innocent dead chinese.
30+millin innocent dead russians.
4+million innocent dead Cambodians.
Chernobyl.
The sheer wonder that is North Korea.
Unsurpassed Human rights abuses.
Unsurpassed polution.
Unsurpassed cruelty.
Unsurpassed govenmental opression.
Unsurpassed exploitaiton of workers.
Unsurpassed deportatinos of whole peoples.
Unsurpassed economic disasters.
Such sparkling and inspirational leaders as:
Comrade Stalin
Chairman Mao
Comrade Pol-Pot
Comrade Ho-Chi Mihn
Comrade Castro
Such marvelous ideas like:
Forced communal farms.
Forced smelting of useless iron.
Forced murder of all LITERATE people.
Forced abandonment of all cities.
Siberian Gulags.
These little neo-leftist communist amazinhunks simply baffle me, hopw in gods name have these idots forgotten what the world was like all of 10 years ago? How is possible that young Western Europeans and US kids could possibly be PROTESTING FOR COMMUNISM in 2001?
And yes thats what they are, NEO-LEFTIST COMMUNISTS.
DONT LET THE OTHER roadkill FOOL YOU THATS WHAT THERE PEOPLE ARE!
I just dont get how this happend.
Im really shocked and scared that this kind of nonsense is permeating into the wastern youth culture.
Its very very sad..
You can all see that im very emotional on this issue, If you dont agree i can fully understand that but few of you have experienced the change from one sytem to another. i just dont want to see it happend here.
Im honestly sorry if im overly angry and agressive in this thread, but I feel very strongly about this.
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Im with Grun. Fark the stupid little twit.
If you want to do something, don't do it with a cowards mask and a cowards methods.
You have a problem, work within the system, or if that doesn't work organize to change it by other means.
Being "cool" and wasting Daddy's money so you can stir up toejam is not equal to the American revolution, my friends.
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The hypocricy here is so rampant is makes me sick.
You people argue here every day in and out about how you need be ARMED so that you can protect yourself from a BIG GOVERNMENT. When your BIG AND UGLY governmen gets with other BIG governments to create even BIGGER government - then you don't have a problem with it ?
If you feel that G8 and globalization is such a damn hit, let's see you turn over those machine guns, you oviously won't need them, will you ?
GRUNHERZ - your demagogic rambling would have made Gobells proud.
The europians are against the open trade because it will do the same thing to their agriculature as the japaneese cars did to your automotive industry. Go to Detroit and see for yourselves.
Global trade is an open gate for large companies to kill any competition, anywhere.
The billion dollars for AIDS is nothing more then transfer payment to the pockets of Pfizer or whatever corporration holds the patent for 10000$/per month drug for AIDS. I'm not impressed.
Ripsnort, that's a very bold statement coming from a country where good part of high school students can't functionally read and find US on the map. Europe's educational system has US's beat up and down. Easily brainwashed ? come out of your gun toting barricaded shack, turn off the TV and see the world, you might be suprized.
Take a long look in the mirror people before you start spewing roadkill like that. Army SHOT AND UNARMED MAN IN SELF DEFENCE ? And you are ready to dance on his grave ?
Shame folks....
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The choice to patronize corporations is not like the choice of Government, FDski. If you have concerns about business, you do not lend them your patronage.
If you think that your Government is causing you harm, you petition the government, the public and then, failing results and with enough support, you raise your armies.
Rabble does not protest, it only destroys. The right to bear arms ensures that minor factions cannot unduly influence the population, not the other way around.
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Competition with Japan only improved the garbage US cars of the 70s and 80s.
It actually saved the US car industry.
Anyway fd-ski you are who you are and belive what you belive.
But I gotta say your post reads very very nicely.
Just like the last issue of my college newspaper, which is run by a bunch of little communist leftist asses......
Fd-ski maybe a someone like you obviously are should go to Cuba or China so you all the best things in life.............
Yea, plus really nice parades on big holidays, like Mayday!!!
BTW that guy wasnt unarmed, look at the lighter next to him and the soot on his hands. Im sure he wasnt one of the guys with molotovs and bombs.........
Fd-ski yes entrepreneurs, capitalism, industrious-people, and business men are source of all the evil in the world....
Very sad fd-ski, lemme guess you are college professor? right?
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College professor ? i should be so lucky.
Unlike you, i experianced communism first hand. I saw the tanks roll down the street, and i saw the police march and shoot at protesters. They didn't bother petitioning, ain't that too bad ?
As i said, turn off the "Pre made opinion" TV one of those days and release that there is more to life that US of A and how much there is in your checking account. Just because you are motivated by material gain, doesn't mean that everyone else has to live like that.
People are always afraid of things they can't understand. And from your "prepackaged for use against anything anti capitalist" so called "facts" it shows how little you know.
Was communist bad ? Sure it was. But are you really dumb enough to think that those people in Italy are asking for a communism ?
As i've pointed out before gents, you are being hypocritical. You want small government ( oh boy, we love Mr. Bush ) , a government that will stay out of your lifes, let things be as they run themselves, right ? Yet you're ok with globalization. What a joke.
frankly i can still remember your whines about employement of US troops under NATO command !!! Remember that ? Well under globalization you can start getting used to goverment in PARIS deciding what good for you. Think about it for a minute before you engage you "EVERYONE IS COMMUNIST BUT ME !!!" tyrade.
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grunz i'm not going to argue the politic subject with you but as far as japanese competition (from factorys built by money from taxes on the very people who lost there jobs do to cheap japanese imports) improving US car quality you have got to be out of your fluff'n mind. japanese imports started showing up here in the late 60's-early 70's exactly the time quality and performance in US cars went to toejam. as just one example as to how fast it went to hell i would have traded the 73 mustang i drove in high school for my older brothers '67 mustang any day any time. in just 6 years the same make and model car went from a first class american muscle car to a first class p.o.s.
the competition led to nothing but cutting corners, low quality control, much more plastic and less steel in construction and little weak motors that can barely merge onto the freeway.
the only improvement i saw in american cars in the 15-20 years after the flood of imports was gas milage, and i strongly suspect that this had more to do with the price of gas skyrocketing than it did to any competition
[ 07-20-2001: Message edited by: capt. apathy ]
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Same here fd-ski.
Im from the former Yugoslavia, and that was one of the nicer ones...
Im not one of these dumb flag waving Americans who hate "commies" because that what all "Red blooded Murricans" s'posed to do.
I think I need to make it more clear that I lived in one of our little socialist wonderlands, as my unusually strong anti-cummunist belifs have been mistaken for idiot USA flag-waving before on this BBS.
As for the kids protesting, Im not sure if they know what they want. However I have seen many of them in the protests wearing shirts with Hammer and Sickle, CCCP/USSR, Lenin, Marx, Castro and the ever deligthtul Che Guevara. They also spew the usual Communist Youth oriented proaganda, of evil busnessmen, worker exploitation etc etc etc.
Basically I hate these little western European salamanders who grew up wealthy with all sorts of nice things now protesting for communism. The very system that ruined eastern-european culture for thje past 60 years. I cant see how you could defend the fear, the corruption, the godddamn black marketering, the lazyness, the giving of favors, the privelage of party people, and all that crap tham im sure you saw in Poland too.
These kids want that crap for some reason, they are against free markets, they are against democracy. They say democracy a lot dont they, but both of know all our communist countries were democratic too yep, 5 offices to fill and 5 candidates running, how nice. These arrogant salamanders assume they speak for the "people" and anyone who doesnt see it their way is "ignorant burgeois opressor" Sound familliar?
I hate communism, I hate this new fangled neo-leftist socialism/communism even more, and im quite happy these bomb throwing aggitator salamanders just found out they can only push reasonable people so far.
I saw communism and I hate it, you saw it but you still seem to hold some sympathy to its lovely flowey propaganda...
As For USA cars.
The Japanese brought over in the 1960s small relatively indefferent cars and continued doing so till the 1980s.
The USA car industry, as you say started on the decline after the 1960s. 20 foot long coupes built like crap were the result. The oil embargo hurt them too as engine performance went to hell. But the 70s and 80s also saw the demise of US car quality.
You see arrogant (racist too) car exectuives didnt see the "Nips" as that big of a threat. They ignored the quality improvements of the japanese cars and in the 1980s that bit them in the ass.
Here were well built cars with good small engines that were more reliable and ran well. Plus the cars rode and handled better.
USA carmakers got lazy and stopped innovation, How else can you explain large V8 engiines barely putting out 160-180 HP?????
Basically the quality of 1980s Japanese cars
shocked the US companies from their lazyness. They had to improve or face incresing loss of market share as GM found out.
The result are much better US cars now than those of the 70s and 80s.
The lazy and conservative US car companies would not have changed a damn thing in that period if it wasnt for large volume mass market cometion from well built and efficent Japanese cars!!!!!!!!!
Thats how the Japanese saved the US car business. As for the car workers who losttheir jobs, well tough. They have clearly been proven to be useleess to the USA car industry as levels of quality and production efficency are higher than ever. These people are now free to participate in other economic activities.
Ask yourself this, are US cars better today than they were 15-20 years ago? Were they improving at a constant rate? Or did the viable and vigorous Japanese competion in the 1980s spur them into improvements.
Im risking a lot in this post, potentially ive both insulted the Communists and the Red-Blooded Meat eting Flag waving Americans;
I must be on the right track...
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Oh yea fd-ski you still obviously think in communist terms.
Big business DOES NOT EQUAL Government.
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I'm very happy with the results of both Asian and European competition in the automobile market, thanks.
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Its too bad the kid died, but in their minds, he died for their cause. What that cause is changes daily, it seems. May God have mercy on his soul.
Please notice the organizers are no where near the frontlines of this "riot", safely tucked away in the back, continuing their crusade.
Its completely moronic how these guys destroy the community hosting this event and try to paint the G8 folks as the eveil ones. Let's see, who's throwing the firebombs and rocks?
[Warning...rant commences...]
I dunno, I'm becoming more cynical in my old age (yea, at 31). I wish Israel and Palestine would take off the gloves and go for it, manno-to-manno and see how Palestine glows in the dark after they figure out Israel has nukes. No more of this suicide bomber versus military strikes bull. You guys wanna fight? Take off the stupid masks and lets do it. An area the size of New England has been a pain in the bellybutton to the world for years, lets take off the gloves and do it, once and for all.
I'd also love to see the day when the protestants in Northern Ireland figure out why people get upset when you have "NEENER NEENER, WE KICKED YOUR bellybutton HUNDREDS OF YEARS AGO AND YOU STILL SUCK" parades through and near catholic neighborhoods. And of course, for such behavior and the following riots, they wantthe catholics disarmed....nevermind they continually incite these things. Its just utterly incredible this blood feud thing has gone on so long. Its England's last colony, it seems.
And finally, I'd like to see a day where people do not beleive everything they are told, rather they weigh the issues and do not fall for the hype and emotion various sides try to spin it with. Men on the moon, space station in orbit, and robots on Mars....and yet we still can't figure out how to get along with each other and respect others. I am so tired of whiney roadkill and tantrums. I think even Superman would be crying in his cape.
[..rant over, bah, too much thinking, time to climb back into the Lancaster]
[ 07-21-2001: Message edited by: LePaul ]
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I'd also love to see the day when the protestants in Northern Ireland figure out why people get upset when you have "NEENER NEENER, WE KICKED YOUR bellybutton HUNDREDS OF YEARS AGO AND YOU STILL SUCK" parades through and near catholic neighborhoods. And of course, for such behavior and the following riots, they wantthe catholics disarmed....nevermind they continually incite these things. Its just utterly incredible this blood feud thing has gone on so long. Its England's last colony, it seems.
It might help if you found out something about a subject before spouting about it. (yes, I know it's never stopped me)
Northern Ireland is a British colony like California is a US colony.
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Really, LePaul. Do some research into Northern Ireland and you might find it's a bit more complicated than you seem to believe. That paragraph reveals the depth of your ignorance in this area.
1) A large population of Northern Ireland would rather die than give up its status as British Citizenry - and that is the problem. They call them 'Unionists', they are very, very proud of being British.
2) There are attempts to disarm both sets of terrorists, it just so happens that the IRA was most generously funded by deluded Americans and (ironically) the Libyans.
3) The marches are not just about annoying the other side - they are about freedom of movement, speech and action. Something which I know America values greatly.
Do I like how NI has turned out? No. Do I support the Orange Marchers? No. And neither do 95% of the British public.
And like Nashwan points out. NI is not a British colony and never has been. It enjoys all the privedges of Wales or Scotland, which enjoy all the privileges of Essex, Yorkshire or Cornwall. It is as integral to the Union as any of those parts.
[ 07-21-2001: Message edited by: Dowding ]
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Well at least everyone agrees the MidEaster's outta duke it out :)
As for Northern Ireland, I'm just giving an armchair opinion, based on what I've read and see on the press...and the web. I appreciate your insights but there is a fine line between freedom of speech and inciting a riot. If you KNOW this is going to piss of a sect of the city, and KNOW its going to cause nothing but trouble, WHY oh WHY do it? Its a vicious circle. Im not in Boston dunking tea :)
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Why do they do it? Mostly they don't, there are many parades in NI but few cause trouble.
The most contentious of all, Drumcree, is a parade along a route that has been used for nearly 200 years. It used to be from the town centre to a country church, and back, along unpopulated country roads. In the 60s new housing estates were built, they became almost wholly catholic via ethnic cleansing, in the traditional manner for NI. (petrol bomb attacks)
The protestants carried on marching down the road every year, with little trouble. In the mid 90s, a man called Brendan Mckenna came along and organised the residents to stop the annual protestant march. Being a member of the IRA, and now a Sinn Fein councillor, people listened, and did as they were told.
The result is the protestants don't want to be stopped from marching down a road they have used for 200 years just because a terrorist tells them not to. If I were in the same position I'd probably feel the same way.
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Nashwan and Dowding are English.......
Am I right? :)
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As one who has been trained in riot control operations and has been to more than one protest / near riot, I think I have a bit of a perspective on this. Any person, much less a mob, that has rocks, cobble stones, sticks / batons and molotov cocktails is NOT unarmed. All of those items are in fact weapons and can be used with deadly effect. I went on record at my department by telling my supervisors that I would shoot ANY person throwing a fire bomb at me or other officers. Anyone who thinks being set on fire is not deadly is simply being stupid. Police are not paid to die in spite of what you might think. That are paid to take a risk of death on the job but not to sacrifice themselves usselessly. A Police Officer's number one goal is to go home to his / her family alive every day.
The fact that this "protestor" died is lamentable but the blame lies with him for his presence at the riot and his actions while there. Actions taken for even the "best of intentions" but carried out in the worst of means can reach back and bite you.
There is a difference between protest and riot. They really aren't very close either. The difference is significant and obvious. Protest is making a statement. Riot is violent criminal activities carried out by a mob or by several instigators in a mob.
Mav
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ:
WTG Italian Police!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Im so happy one of those retard Communist/Anarchist kids got killed.
I honestly hope many many many more of these idiots are shot to death in the following protests. They are asking for it, and deserve it.
Once again, WTG Italian Police!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh, that really made you look good grunherz... are you proud of your idiotic bloodthirsty statement?
As to the protestors... they're out of their flippin' minds. Doesn't mean they should get shot, though.
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Miko and Gruneherz struggling against what they call communism...
Sad. Funny - but sad and dangerous.
Next time they will vote for bombing Yurop "to stone age".
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Boroda you Russians can go to hell........ No more bullying around all us other Slavs, so go diddly off.......
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ispar..
Proud? I donno.
Bloodthirsty? I guess.
Look good? No, prolly not.
Honest? Yes.
He get his confrontation with police? Yes.
I dont like what those holligans are doing, Im happy they found out they cant go on doing it with no response, however accidental and unfortunate.
Look at that picture!
Why does he have ski mask on?
Why does he have soot on his hands?
Why that lighter?
And remember these innocent ski masked adventures brought AND USED molotov cocktails AND bombs against the police, nearly killing a policeman, I belive he is in critical condition now.
Anyway I certainly dont expect you to share or even understand my contempt and hatred for such people, it is too personal and has too much history.
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BTW the poice didnt just randomly shhot the guy.
How easy is that to forget by some of you guys!
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G8 Protest Activists Detained in Police Raid
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010721/ts/group_leadall_dc_28.html (http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010721/ts/group_leadall_dc_28.html)
hehe
"The leaders from Britain, France, Italy, Germany, Japan, Russia, Canada and the United States will leave parts of the ancient port of Genoa in ruins from anti-globalization riots."
The reporter here seems alittle left leaning :)
Don't recall any world leaders in the riots..
[ 07-22-2001: Message edited by: Eagler ]
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ:
Nashwan and Dowding are English.......
Am I right? :)
Wrong about me, thankfully. I live a bit futher west. :)
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What I find highly amusing is just *what* they are protesting about.
Some protest about the environment.
Some about the evils of capitalism
Some hate global trade.
Some want debt relief.
Some want more transparent governments.
Some don't want any governments at all.
Some want communistic governments.
Some want "redistribution of wealth".
There is *no way in hell* anyone can satisfy everyone in this group of people.
To even have a dialogue, you'd have to break this large group of protesters up into smaller groups - about what they are prostesting for/against. Then the actual work can start.
Thousands of protestors have left, since they realize the violence is counter productive and they do not wish to be associated with it.
For those who take to the streets peacefully and not hiding their identity; kudos to you. I may not agree with your agenda, but you're going about it the right way if you feel other methods have been used up.
To the cowards that hide behind masks and battle the police: I hope you're arrested. I hope you feel the violence you yourself want on your own bodies. I don't hope you get killed or seriously hurt, but a little pain might wake you up.
There is a growing socialist thing amongst youngsters - and I cannot disagree more with these individuals I'm already taxed through my ass, and now they want even more. To me it is young people who're just wanting to be part of something bigger than themselves that just join groups for a sense of belonging, drive and goal, but who lack an indepth understanding of the situation as a whole.
They tore up Gothenburg. Used to live close by, and I saw the devastatation when I was in Sweden a few weeks ago. They're gonna try to tear up Copenhagen if they get a chance to.
If they get hurt or die fighting the police, they should not whine. It *is* dangerous to fight the police.
Nor do they have the backing of the people. Quite the opposite.
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Those so called pacifists were destroying a Carabinieri's jeep with three young guys inside. The interior of the jeep was covered with blood and the shooter has now 16 stiches on his head.
The shot guy was throwing a fire estinguisher into the jeep and probably there was someone ready to throw a molotov inside it. Now, show me a hero who is ready to die without defending himself and his buddies.
All this thing is very sad :(
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What Gatt says, plus:
- What & who are these guys standing for? -> See StSanta
- They are free people taking a risky position. They must face the risks as well. And, IMHO, actual situation is waaay off on the permisive side. In the balance between personal freedom/collective respect the first aspect is currently overmoweighted. I think is a matter of education in the first place and, in a second place, of punishment.
- I love freedom as much as anybody here. But the first freedom I like is to be able to walk and speak freely without some wild uneducated (or a civilized, educated one) guy flagging his civil rights riots on my city laying fire and violence on it. I would like the police be as tough as it can be. If somebody is hurt in the process, so be it. And better if it's not the police.
- I am fed up with so-called progresist people. Liberty starts with a general sense of safety. First in your home/private life, second in the streets you usually walk. Failing to get that, you hardly go any further. I could care less about freedom delicatessen, If I'm not safe at my own very home, or If I can not walk safely in my town. Current situation is not on the safety side.
Cheers,
Pepe
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"and probably there was someone ready to throw a molotov inside it"
Probably?? that dont cut it imho... If he indeed was trying to kill the ones inside of the car then i guess he desereved what he got but i suspect an shot to the legs would have been enough...
Well time will tell the police officer is under investigation as we type here...
Oh dont forget that an very big majority of the protestors, protests in peace.
And you Grunhertz i wont even comment on your posts.
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200,000 people goes in Genua to protest in peace and non violence against Globalization, for different reasons.
About 1,000 criminals decided to cross the line between protest and riot (and I bet they were there with this in theyr mind :mad: )
17,000 policemen lost control of situation, and start beating everyone , good and bad, killing a guy, and that was "excess of self defence", i think.
Results:
1 dead, lot of policeman wounded, more protestors (sp?) wounded too, lot of them arrested and the media dancing on the grave.
Just for 1.000 amazinhunks.
this is the summary of the "G8 riots"
Digging more...
In that police jeep was a group of young conscripted "Carabinieri" (military police with dutys of civil police), used to push theyr ego and play with theyr guns (remember here a gun is a rare thing), scared to death.
They were non professional policemen, for the first time in an emergency situation.
Before the riots the Black Idiots were leaved by the police alone and uncontested going around the city, destroing everything for 2 hours, and the police reaction started only when this 1.000 amazinhunks reached the mass the pacifists (someone here see a plan in this).
My guesses?
The entire situation was handled in a bad way, the chiefs of the police have made wrong plans.
And the SOB that caused all this (the Black Block) are untouched, no one of them has been arrested, or even beated, they hide in the big crowd and disappear, while the crowd was beaten.
If you are ever been in a manifestation here in Italy, you'll know, when police charge, become uncontrolled, even if you lay on ground with hands on your head, clearly surrendering, they beat you hard while on ground, no way to escape.
Someone suggested in previous posts to use civil way to protest, petition, information voting different governors, this made me laugh...
here in Italy??
All media in the hands of the economic elite (the same that is in the government), with the exception of a couple of newspaper in the hands of the old communist party (LOL), a big number of politic partys all with the same aim (gain power and stole money), if you try a protest the police come quietly in your house and arrest you for wathever reason.
Be real, the only way to be visible here, is to go in the roads and protest.
But violence?
Riots?
This is a bad way, because you become terrorist and your point will be wrong by default.
The genua facts are the demonstration that more and more stupidity is expanding, both side.
p.s.
As for the lighter, there is a photo taken before that one (less blood on ground) where there is'nt the lighter, BTW this is a rule for our police. ;)
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Grun simply went overboard and got fired up in his anti communsit post, dont read to much into it or at least read the rest of his posts.
Communism is DOA...in truth it never was or will be. The USSR wasnt true communsist, more like some sort of totalarian setup I think. Communsism will never work.
The kid who got wacked was responiable for his actions... you cant blame police for defending themselves against individuals w/firebombs and in bodyarmor.
A WORLD GOVERNMENT is the next step I'm sorry to say in some ways. It will happen. We will eventualy become so economicaly tied togather it will be the next logical step. Hopefully it will be an enlightened government based perhaps on many of the principles one sees in democratic governments today.
xBAT
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Originally posted by Maniac:
"and probably there was someone ready to throw a molotov inside it"
Probably?? that dont cut it imho... If he indeed was trying to kill the ones inside of the car then i guess he desereved what he got but i suspect an shot to the legs would have been enough...
Probably ... yes, probably. Becouse they destroyed in the same way tens of cars and military vehicles during a 2 days war. Two or three of them open a hole in the glass of a car and another one throws a molotov (or anything on fire) inside. Theres a nice film where three Carabinieri escaped their vehicle just seconds before it is set completely on fire.
Its not so difficult to understand what he was thinking: "3-4 guys *are* destroying the jeep with big hammers, estinguishers and iron bars. They are going to kill me in seconds."
Yes, he could have fired at his leg(s), but I think it is not easy to keep your head cool in those moments. Sad, very sad.
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Heard the following G8's will be far more remote areas to head off such violence. Some people just aren't happy unless they are tearing something up for whatever cause..
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just 2 things;
1.-antiglobalization people suck, and are a bunch of hypocrits. A good time in the jail wont go bad for most of them.
2.-Half the people in this trhead are idiots full of toejam, who are worse than the so-called "pacifists". No need to name who I'm referring to, as it is pretty evident.
Some guys should carry this in his sig:
"Shoot him dead! he's a commie!"
no comment.
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1.-antiglobalization people suck, and are a bunch of hypocrits. A good time in the jail wont go bad for most of them.
Has Franco returned? Throwing people in jail for legitimately expressing dissent is one thing I would fight against.
Now, some take it too far and start being violent; some to make a point, others just to have a fight. Neither should be tolerated.
Globalisation has the potential to do great harm and run counter to both the free market and democracy. I support the anti-globalisation movement, but despise those in it that use it as a vehicle for trouble.
But then that isn't a new trick.
I also agree with Tony Blair - he was saying how world democratic leaders should be able to meet without this kind of violence all over the streets.