Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: AWMac on December 31, 2005, 03:30:09 AM
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Got a question..where I work there's many homeless people, most are doing okay for the most part...no children out there...
My question is there is one woman, looks just like my Sister...would it be wrong to bring her into my home ,wash her clothes, let her shower and give her a good meal and turn her back onto the streets....or just turn my head and pretend I don't see her?
Elanor Rigby plays in my head...over this..nobody with no name....
Mac
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Could use a lil Seagoon here...
Andy,
WWJD?
seriously this is kinda bothering me a bit.
To turn my eyes an act as I don't see, hurts and make me feel as if I'm a liar.
I've gone from poor to almost well off... in my heart I want to reach out.
Mac
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she will seriously take everything that is not nailed down. And when you let her in once she will come back and come back and come back, and finally one night, while you a snug asleep, and have not let her in, she will set your house on fire.
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imagine one night in Chez AWmac, the flames! the hot burning flames!
i'd let a medieval plague rat into my home before street trash
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I've never heard a story like this that didn't end in the homeless person victimizing the samaritan. If they are on the street they are drug addicted, mentally ill, abuse survivors, or all of the above.
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Use a hotel/motel to clean her up and a trip to a clothing store, instead of your house. Take a female chaperone.
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oh btw pretty woman is just a movie and richard gere is a poor role model to aspire to as he sticks gerbils up his bum.
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Originally posted by eagl
Use a hotel/motel to clean her up and a trip to a clothing store, instead of your house. Take a female chaperone.
What he said ^^^. Those that do not have some sort of problem usually will not accept the charity as well. Pride factor.
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Thanks all for the input...except the Richard Grere thing and Gerbils... did he really do that chit? Ewwwwww.....
Guess I'm having a struggle within...chit I've done in the Army to changing what I do in the Civilian life.
Thanx for the input guys, makes sense.
Mac
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Eagl nailed it Mac. That's darn good advice.
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Oh and Mac, use a motel that you pay cash for, because IF she decides to destroy anything, then your credit card is responsible.
Female Chaperone is an absolute MUST too.
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Yeah, Eagl is right. You can help but don't bring her into your life. The sad truth about homeless people in our society is that there is always a reason.
Mental illness, drugs, drink sometimes a combination of all three. It is rare for someone to simply fall on hard times and find themselves out on the street these days. Usually there is a fall back whether a relative or friend to stay with until they get their act together. When someone has no friend to take them in or a relative it's probably because they used up all the goodwill in some way. Or more probably stolen the TV and the DVD player to buy drugs.
The only exception normally is a recent immigrant who runs out of money and finds themselves on the street before they get a job.
It's an unfortunate reality.
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We have a place in Boston called the pine street inn, it provides shelter for the homeless. What they do is allow you in at night, you have to be in bed by 11PM. They wake you up at 5AM and have an hour to shower and get out. They give you paperwork of options, like places where you can get training or get a job.
Also, any sign of drugs or drink, and they don't allow you in
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FILM IT,
Call it the "Total Bum Makeover" you could sell it to a network and make MILLIONS!!!!!!!!!!
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
FILM IT,
Call it the "Total Bum Makeover" you could sell it to a network and make MILLIONS!!!!!!!!!!
LOL!
i completly agree with Eagl.
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Mac, if it bothers you then you have options. You dont have to ignore her, but you dont have to bring her into your home either. Working security I know (at least on sight) alot of the homeless in the area around where I work. Most of them are where they are by choice. Some have mental problems but are mostly harmless. There are places for them to get help, although those places can become quickly overloaded.
If you really want to help this woman, here's what I would do.
Find out what shelters and aid stations operate in the area. Find out if they are already at capacity (and they probably are). Ask for references for one that ISNT full, or already working beyond it's means. Stop avoiding the woman's eyes and simply nod or say hello. If she wants help, she'll ask for it. If she does, make an offer to help her relocate to an area with an opening in their shelter or aid program. Buy her dinner if thats all she wants. You cant force them to accept more help than they want, and there are plenty of people out there who are ready and willing to help her if she wants it. It doesnt hurt to make sure she knows about them and where they are though. Sometimes bus fare and directions on where to get off are all they need.
Protect yourself and your family, and dont bring strangers home. No matter how good your intentions ........... well, you know the old saying about good intentions, right? There's a fine line between doing a Christian's duty to those less fortunate, and being stupid.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
FILM IT,
Call it the "Total Bum Makeover" you could sell it to a network and make MILLIONS!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe you can star in it one day? "What goes around comes around."
Karaya
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My buddy in Oregon did this very thing. Even tried to get the woman a job. It ended badly.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Maybe you can star in it one day? "What goes around comes around."
Karaya
I don't remember ever pissing in your cherios
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AWMac, sounds like you're getting too close to her... you sound like a good guy, but the amount of ways you could get hurt emotionally and financially is too much.
If you want to help her, arrange for shelter and some employment but make sure she does not stay in your home nor does she know any personal information about you.
I definitely agree with Starof Africa on this one...
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
I don't remember ever pissing in your cherios
Sorry that was me. Thought it was something everyone was doing.
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There is a trend here in the responses and advice, and I would strongly suggest you follow the advice. Do not let her know where you live, or even your last name. She will see your desire to help as weakness and will peg you as a soft touch. She will not accept your help and walk away happy. All you can offer her is a day or two of clean, and she will return to what she is now, only slightly more miserably. She will then come after you relentlessly for money, help, food, whatever she thinks she can get from you.
Okay, this may or may not happen just like I said, but it might, and is it something you want to risk?
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Question: Is there a deer involved ?
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Coincidentally, there was a story on this mornings local news. A couple met a down and out young man in the Orlando area who claimed to have lost everything in Katrina. After giving him a place to stay, buying him new clothes, feeding him for a week even buying him Christmas presents, he stole the mans wallet then stole their car. As it turned out he was homeless, just not from Katrina.
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Just makes you wish that US had something like the Netherlands where they dont have homeless people because they find ways of housing people so theyre not homeless anymore.
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Originally posted by Hoarach
Just makes you wish that US had something like the Netherlands where they dont have homeless people because they find ways of housing people so theyre not homeless anymore.
While I like the Netherlands, they also have bums and homeless from all over the world there, drawn by the drugs and tourists to beg from. We dont need that.
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There's an old Vulcan proverb (well not really, but still...)
No good deed goes unpunished
:)
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When you run for president, someone will drag up the fact that you paid for a hotel room, in cash, incognito, for some woman and wonder why. It will be spun into something perverted.
Almost kidding by the way ;)
Just know that the homeless out there do know where to go to get shelter and food. She may enjoy a hot bath and a room for the night, may very well forget it in the morning, and the only thing gained is the feeling that you did something well. But did it do anything good?
Living on the street and knowing you are there, after a while one would get accustomed to it and adapt your life until something substantial changes it. Does it do harm to hand out a night of relevant luxury only to be returned and Reminded of your condition the next day? Change her life dramatically or walk away, but don't tease. Spend the value of the night on a donation directly to the food closet and feed 20 people for the waste of 1 night's luxury.
Before someone balks at my ignorance of the homeless lifestyle, understand that I have been part of a food closet program to help out locals for nearly 18 years now. I know how much food that 1 room can buy. If you want to do some good, Really do something that counts.
IMHO of course. *EDIT* Not your house though, really, don't go there. Your family is exposed to things you are not considering, Never that.
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Matthew 25. When it gets right down to it, why else are we here.
to all, Hap
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Originally posted by Hap
Matthew 25. When it gets right down to it, why else are we here.
to all, Hap
Thanks Hap, I was looking for that one earlier and couldnt remember the chapter. Miss having Seagoon around :)
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He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
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Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
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For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me,
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naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.'
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Then the righteous 16 will answer him and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?
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When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?
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When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?'
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And the king will say to them in reply, 'Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.'
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17 Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
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For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
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a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.'
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18 Then they will answer and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?'
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He will answer them, 'Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.'
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And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
You dont have to be stupid and bring a possible criminal into your home. Even in the parable of the Good Samaritan, he only took the wounded man to an inn where he could be cared for and left money for his care. He didnt take the guy home with him. But he didnt walk by and turn his head either. People have been made to feel like they should be ashamed that they have money and a home and enough food to eat. Bull***t. But you should be ashamed if you have an opportunity to do SOMETHING and just turn your head and walk on by.
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Ditto!!!!
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He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
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Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
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For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me,
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naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.'
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Then the righteous 16 will answer him and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?
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When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?
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When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?'
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And the king will say to them in reply, 'Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.'
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17 Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
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For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
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a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.'
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18 Then they will answer and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?'
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He will answer them, 'Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.'
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And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
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That is what I am talking about...
If for some reason I lose my house, my job and I am on the street, would you look me into my eyes as a equal? or...something lower to you?
Mac
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Originally posted by LePaul
There's an old Vulcan proverb (well not really, but still...)
No good deed goes unpunished
:)
Nah theres a better Vulcan proverb, homeless people make good soilant green.
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man sometimes life deals some bad hands...
Peace on Earth, Goodwill towards Man....is kinda out the window now. When did we lose Heart?
Mac
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Originally posted by AWMac
man sometimes life deals some bad hands...
Peace on Earth, Goodwill towards Man....is kinda out the window now. When did we lose Heart?
Mac
when street trash started burning down your houses. hey if you find another homeless chick tape them fighting over $3.50. Bum Catfights! that would rock. You would be rich.
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It`s pretty clear that some of the posters have some really screwed up ideas about the homeless. Sure there are some of those that are homeless and some that pretend to be homeless that are drug addicted, alcoholic and thieves, etc. , etc. There are also some lawyers, bankers, politicians and every other walk of life you can name that you can place the same tags on.
Stop and think. Just really how close are you from being homeless? If the economy or some other outside source were to shut down your job or line of work, how close are you to the edge? The average person is a lot closer to the edge than most folks realize. Take away the income due to loss of job or health situations, etc. and it takes it`s toll at a very rapid pace.
There are a lot of folks out there, that are homeless, that those very things have happened to. Be smug while you can because you never know how long it will last. I`d say, for the majority, with no backup, a few months max under the right circumstances and you would be outside looking in.
I have a neighbor that was put in this situation due to no fault of his own. He was a plumber by trade most of his life. He worked hard all of his life. He started getting really bad in the health department and didn`t know what was going on. He found that he had cancer that had attacked his intestines at a rapid pace. They opened him up like a can of sardines, then started the chemo/radiation. No work, no income. The home went first, then the rest.
When a few of us learned about it he was on the streets. Still very sick and the outlook pretty dim. Luckily a friend here had the house which was the first step to get him in. We got him hooked back up to finish his treatments and get his bills taken care of for a while. He is now doing a lot better, but still pretty screwed in the health department. Weakness, etc. We have him set up now where he can work when he is able. He`s doing pretty good compared to the situation he was in. All it took was a little help. Some people do not have this and no hope of it.
Ya know, this guy feeds my pets and watchs over our house when we are away. He has a key and I haven`t lost one TV, DVD, cash or anything. :)
We , as a family, came too damn close to being in the situation he was in ourselves. A lot are a lot closer than they realize now. It don`t take long under the right circumstances.
Be thankfull for what you have now because you could very easily lose it all in a heartbeat.
Mac, you will figure out what needs to be done.
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I wouldnt bring here anywhere neear my home. few of the homelss are homeless because of a series of unfortunate events. They usually work themselves into the situation with a number of reprehensible habits. Let the professionals take care of the homeless.
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people with Mental illness need to be taken off the street and got help they are living a life that they may not be fully aware that there is a better way to live
if it was not for my father my Mother would be on the street my mom suffers extreme Mental illness and does not realy take care of herself
sadly its been a tough fight to get her anyhelp because she is not a danger to herself and she does not want help so its making it very hard for us to get her the help she needs
just noting somthing about the Mental ill
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Originally posted by simshell
people with Mental illness need to be taken off the street and got help they are living a life that they may not be fully aware that there is a better way to live
if it was not for my father my Mother would be on the street my mom suffers extreme Mental illness and does not realy take care of herself
sadly its been a tough fight to get her anyhelp because she is not a danger to herself and she does not want help so its making it very hard for us to get her the help she needs
just noting somthing about the Mental ill
That is a good point simshell. Still, however, to deal with a homeless person that is not a fimily memeber or 'known to be safe' is risky business. Maybe some good advice for awmac would be to put her in touch with a professional service. There are a number of services available for the unfortunate. (Although much fewer now than 6 years ago.). Mental illness is best left to those who know how to deal with it.
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Slimshell,
Quite a few of the homeless were in an institution before. They were released as a court decision required them to be released unless they could definitively be shown to be a hazzard to themselves or others. Once they were released the numbers of homeless went up quite a bit.
I've run accross quite a few of them and alsmost died bescause of one of them. After he tried to stab me(the vest stopped the knife), the judge released him as he did not feel he was a danger just becuase he tried to stab a Police Officer. He ruled the individual to be incompetant to stand trial but not incompetant to be out on the street totally unsupervised.
Six months later he was found in the middle of the night in a vancant house. He assaulted that Officer with a length of 2x4 causing injuries and knocking the flashlight out of the Officers hand so he couldn't see the homeless guy. The officer was of course back lit from the doorway and they guy continued to hit him with the 2x4. The Officer had to back out, firing a weapon blindly just based on where he thought the guy was standing while hitting him. Later a K9 was sent in amd the guy almost killed the dog. The handler was able to jump on him while he was striking the dog laying on the ground.
After the arrest they found another selection of knives and edged or pointed weapons on this guy consistent with his fascination with them. Guess who was released from custody AGAIN after he recovered from the single gunshot wound in his arm and serving 1 year in jail, not the state prison, just the county jail.
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And while thats a sad report on the state of our criminal justice system, its been long acknowledged in MANY states that there is a lack of resources to deal with indigent mentally ill. Many could live with minimum supervision if they would only take medication regularly. Who's going to administer it?
I'm not now and will not advocate walking in blindly to help the "homeless". But no one should be discouraged from doing SOMETHING to help. Get advice. Get a plan. Get help, even. Help to accomplish your goal more easily and help to watch your back. As Mav noted, there are wolves out there among the sheep.
No one, not even Jesus himself at his boldest, ever said you should recklessly invite danger into your life. Protect yourself by all means. But a mere threat of possible violence should not stop us from reaching out to those who need help. Charity and Caution are perfectly capable of coexisting.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
It`s pretty clear that some of the posters have some really screwed up ideas about the homeless.
~snippage~
Be thankfull for what you have now because you could very easily lose it all in a heartbeat.
Mac, you will figure out what needs to be done.
Word, Jackal.
Thankfully, I don't know anyone personally in a similar situation, but it could have easily happened to me/my family. My wife recently had to have bypass surgery on an emergency basis. 5 years ago, we would've been pretty much in the same boat. Due to some career choices I made back then, she got nothing but the best care and with no financial hardships involved for us. We're not only lucky and thankful for her health, but also for the fact paying for it won't bankrupt us. You're exactly right when you point out how many people are exposed in their current situations.
I also happen to have reason to deal with many homeless people locally on a day-to-day basis (one aspect of my business involves a daily opportunity for them to earn cash money). I can speak from experience in saying that as with any other cllass of people, there's a full range of character to see - even though it is unfortunately true that this class probably has a relatively very high percentage of people with more problems than just money.
Mac, what I would suggest if you really want to be helpful, not only to this lady but other folks like her, is investigate local shelters. Salvation Army does a great job here, as do a few local churches, in terms of offering a refuge where at low or no cost there's an indoor bunk, sanitary facilities, and a daily meal for folks who need it. Find one you can believe in, and contribute. They'll be able to gratefully accept either money, goods (food/blankets/clothes, toilet articles, etc) or possibly most valuable if you can afford it - your time as a volunteer.
Then steer this lady there. Its a much better solution than trying to re-invent the wheel yourself.
culero
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"And while thats a sad report on the state of our criminal justice system, its been long acknowledged in MANY states that there is a lack of resources to deal with indigent mentally ill."
It's not a lack of resources--we had plenty of resources for years and years and still do. It's because worthless liberals decided that it might hurt the crazies' feelings to keep them tucked away where they couldn't harm anyone.
"My question is there is one woman, looks just like my Sister...would it be wrong to bring her into my home "
It might not be 'wrong', but it would be remarkably stupid. Don't do it.
"or just turn my head and pretend I don't see her?"
That's a more prudent course of action.
J_A_B
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Originally posted by AWMac
My question is there is one woman, looks just like my Sister...would it be wrong to bring her into my home ,wash her clothes, let her shower and give her a good meal and turn her back onto the streets....or just turn my head and pretend I don't see her?
Mac
It wouldn't be wrong to give this woman a good meal and a chance to clean up but putting your family at risk would be when there are other options available. There's been lots of good advice in this post for helping her without putting your family at risk.
Cheers &
asw
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Originally posted by J_A_B
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It's not a lack of resources--we had plenty of resources for years and years and still do. It's because worthless liberals decided that it might hurt the crazies' feelings to keep them tucked away where they couldn't harm anyone.
J_A_B
i have to meet with a consuler ever week and iv talked to him about this issue alot and he says that they have been cut just about ever year and need more resources badly and the state is making it harder for them to help people
it drives me crazy when i tried to kill myself 3 times this year i got put into 3 places because of depression yet my mother who has gone totaly psychoatic for 10 years now and they wont do a dame thing about it
it pisses me off because the only way there going to help her is if she go trys to hurt herself or others and its pretty much im sure the same for all the other mentaly ill