Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Terrain Editor => Topic started by: Saxman on January 02, 2006, 04:23:43 PM
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Sorry if these have been asked before, but as I have several questions about mapmaking it's more convenient to ask them all here again and get the answers in one place:
Anyway, I have some questions about the terrain editor:
First, working in the editor (from the download section) often time I can't get the selection crosses, so I have no idea where I'm clicking. Also some land tiles disappear unless I'm viewing from certain angles. This is making it difficult for me to keep track of the shape and location of the land mass. Is there a way to change this and keep tiles from disappearing? Why do I sometimes not get the selection crosses at all? I'm having a difficult time working blind this way.
Second, is there a way in the editor to estimate whether a base would be within range of a specific aircraft? Say, I want to make sure that a given airfield is within the maximum combat radius of a B-17. Is there a tool in the editor to actually figure this, or is it all guesswork, trial and error, and memorizing how far on the map an aircraft can travel.
Third, is it possible to have the capture of multiple airfields controlled by a single town, or does each airfield HAVE to have its own town?
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Originally posted by Saxman
First, working in the editor (from the download section) often time I can't get the selection crosses, so I have no idea where I'm clicking.
The little crosses only show up when you are placing terrain tiles, water, grass etc.
Also some land tiles disappear unless I'm viewing from certain angles. This is making it difficult for me to keep track of the shape and location of the land mass. Is there a way to change this and keep tiles from disappearing?
Check the help file and use your joystick to "fly" the terrain. If you get too high you won't see part or all of the terrain under you. Use the clipboard map.
Why do I sometimes not get the selection crosses at all? I'm having a difficult time working blind this way.
When you want to set objects like Airfields and roads, turn on the "Grid" lines and it's also important to turn on "Snap to Grid".
Second, is there a way in the editor to estimate whether a base would be within range of a specific aircraft? Say, I want to make sure that a given airfield is within the maximum combat radius of a B-17. Is there a tool in the editor to actually figure this, or is it all guesswork, trial and error, and memorizing how far on the map an aircraft can travel.
No
Third, is it possible to have the capture of multiple airfields controlled by a single town, or does each airfield HAVE to have its own town?
Yes, and it's the map room, but this is usually used only with custom airfield tiles that make up a single large airfield.
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The problem with not getting the crosses is that I'll click on one grid and I get the cross, but if I click the grid NEXT to it I don't. Sometimes I'll click on a space on the grid (even if I'm "centered" over it in top-down view) and I won't get what I'm clicking on, I get the space above, below or to the side.
Ah I see, you don't even NEED to have a town at all, then? You can just place a maproom instead? Interesting. It's gonna be fun playing with my little project and seeing just what I can do with it. :D
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to add more crosses to what you already have selected, hold shift when (right) clicking. To remove a cross, hold cntrl when (right) clicking the one you want to remove.
Cntrl when left clicking lowers the elevation. Holding shift rises the elevation.
For the terrain to work you dont even NEED a maproom, just without it you are unable to capture fields.
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Nevermind, I found out what was wrong, I was trying to work off the edge of the world. :p They really need to put a big warning when you get to the edge of the maps. "Here there be monsters!" or something. :D
I wish there were two map views, one for your reference pic, the other to show the REAL map as you're working on it. That'd REALLY make it easier keeping tabs on how things are ACTUALLY progressing, as opposed to what you THINK it looks like. The help file mentioned a template showing the sectors, but those templates are nowhere to be found and the directory doesn't exist (at least, not matching the help file's description). Anyone know where I can find it?
While I haven't played with the tools much yet, is it possible to ADD new objects, or alternate versions of EXISTING objects that could be used together with the "standard" ones? For what I'm doing I find being able to have alternate versions of the fighter, bomber, and vehicle hangars (as well as the tower/map room) would not just be useful, but a pretty freakin' awesome imersiveness effect (but I don't want to replace the existing ones outright, I'd need both).
Speaking of which, if it IS possible to do that, I may have need for people experienced with skinning and doing shapes. While I can model, when it comes to doing anything in paint programs and expecting it to look good a two-year-old with a box of crayons would do a better job. :p That part I'll keep y'all posted on.
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Ok, I've made changes to an object, and it looks great in the object editor, HOWEVER when I go to use the modified object in the Terrain Editor, all it gives me is the original object. How do I get the modified objects to appear? (the ObjEd has NO help file :p ). There's a .til file I can create that is put into a folder called "tiles" in the ahiiterr folder. Does it have something to do with that? Do I need to put in my new object, save it, exit and reload and THEN it will appear in the terrain editor?
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Look on your hard drive:
C:\Program Files\HTC\ah2editor
Readme File:
objedit.txt
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The .til files in your tiles folder are a result of using the "file/save as" function in Object Editor. When you use the "build" command, you get a .shp file into your newshps folder. That is the file you need to copy to your texsrc folder. remember to use a new name (in "save as") so that there will be no complications with existing HTC default objects... unless you want to replace them!
If you are building the new object in OE with some custom shapes (from userlib folder) then you need to copy them (shp:s and htx:s) also to texsrc in addition to that shp from newshps! Remember to use different names for the shp:s in userlib and newshps.
Hope this helps :)
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Ok, I've got my shape in the \texsrc folder, and I've named it to ter#####.shp per the .txt, but it STILL is not showing in the editor. The file says the first two ## are the subtype, and the second two ## are the type. Is there a SPECIFIC number system for shape types/subtypes used by AH? Like, a runway main type is a specific number, with a 00-03 for each of the four subtypes of runways (the individual runways in the shapes list, not the actual large/med/small airfields)?
Edited: I just renamed the files to match the shape name listed in the object editor (yes, I AM replacing them). The terrain editor IS now recognizing there should be a new shape, but the tile is now BLANK when I try and add it (so I guess that could be considered progress).
Edited 2: SUCCESS! I got my new shape to appear in the terrain editor. However, I now have it listed twice--once from the userlib folder, the other from the newshps folder. The only one that actually appears in the editor is the one from userlib, while the one from newshps is blank. Currently, the file from newshps is NOT renamed to ter#### per the txt (I STILL need to know how the subtype and type are determined). Is that just used as a reference, and if I change it to that name will it no longer appear in the shapes list? Or would I add the file from newshps to the shpfilter file?
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It would help if I knew what kind of object you are making. Those terr#### files are the terrain tiles which are associated with the terrain textures... meaninig forrests, hills, country houses, barns etc.
If you are making some other object, do not use those names. Normal objects can be named freely. You assign their types either in OE and/or in TE when placing them.
If you are making a new 3-d terrain tile, make sure that in "file/tile properties" you have the 1st and 3rs boxes checked, but not the 2nd.
You cannot use these terrain tiles as objects, even though they appear in the object list in TE/Objects flap. You can use the tile you mad ein the Terrain flap by selecting appropriate terrain type and the "manual" selection instead of randomize. There you get the options for the four quadrants betweeen 0 and 3. Those mean first two numbers in the terr#### name.
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AH, ok. So if I make, say, a new building. I can name the file from newshp whatever I want. It's the names for the TERRAIN TILES that need to be specified (0-3 for the subtype corresponding to the variations). I get it now. The OE help file was irritatingly vague on this. :/
So what about the dual listing for a shape that I'm getting now (one for the shp file I was instructed to bring from newshps, and the other from userlib)? Do I just add the file from newshps (which appears as NOTHING in the TE) to the shpfilter file so it doesn't appear?
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The file in the newshps is not a real shape. It is kind of location info of several shapes within a "shape".
If you have just a single custom shape in your userlib (which you have presumably converted from ac3d file) and you dont want to add something like bushes or trees beside your house, then it is ok to use just the shp from userlib.
If you want to put things together in OE, then you use what ever shps (either custom or htc's own) for the work and save it with some new name!!! (makes that .til into tiles folder... just a list of objects and locations) Finally you "build" it into the newshps folder. Then you need all the shp:s you used in that work from userlib AND the shp from newshps.
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Gotcha!I'm getting it now. :D
Is anyone gonna do an updated help file for the OE? There's stuff in there that's vague to the point of uselessness and some things missing altogether!
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Thats great! Now once someone can figure out why I can't fly forward threw the map ( using button 2 on joystick) or ANY button, then post it.
I haven't been here for awhile, tried again last night to get back into mapmaking and remembered why I couldn't make them.
NUTTZ
Originally posted by Saxman
Gotcha!I'm getting it now. :D
Is anyone gonna do an updated help file for the OE? There's stuff in there that's vague to the point of uselessness and some things missing altogether!
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Ok, I AM ADDING a completely new terrain type, as well. The tiles ARE appearing in the objects list, but it's not listing under the "terrains" tab.
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Originally posted by Saxman
Ok, I AM ADDING a completely new terrain type, as well. The tiles ARE appearing in the objects list, but it's not listing under the "terrains" tab.
If I understand you correctly (please clarify - the shape name and a description would help) you are trying to add a NEW terrain tile TYPE such as Grass, Water, Forest etc. You can't do that. You may replace an existing "terrain" tile such as Forest with your version of Forest. The terrain tiles have predefined file names and there can be only one for each of the limited number of types. (Yeah, I know I over simplified it.)
Again, over simplifing, for other objects, in the OE, you can assemble a group of buildings, roads, trees etc. and then Save (.til) and Build (.shp) this new group of predefined objects. The .shp file goes into your texsrc folder.
If you built a new object with ac3d, you still must run it through the OE but it sounds like you know that.
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Nutts I wish I could help. When I switched from a Thrustmaster to an X45 my move buttons switched positions and not where I'd like them to be either. Never have figured out how to change them to something more useful. Maybe it's time to post in the Hardware forum.
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Ok, that's irritating. The only limitation the helpfile says is in the SUB-type (it has to be 00xx, 01xx, 02xx or 03xx) but it didn't say anything about it having to be one of the seven already present terrains. :p
Eh well, I'll just replace something.
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Yeah I know. If I understand correctly, you can do a lot with the subtiles but since I'm color blind, and therefore hopless for terrain tiles, I haven't investagated that aspect.
GL
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Ah, the fun of trying to add something on a game it wasn't technically meant to have (THIS is something I'm quite familiar with). :D
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Ok, this is fubar...
I have my edited terrain tile, and switched it with one of the existing ones. I then created a set of the plb files (for where the terrain overlaps another tile of a different type) and that worked.
HOWEVER, I decided I didn't like the look of the overlap, so decided to change it.
The problem is now I can't get rid of it!!!
I've deleted the overlap texture entirely, (it DOES revert to the original texture that came with AH, until I try to put my NEW plb files in, then it reverts back to my old ones!) but no matter what I try to do to change it (modify what I made, make an entirely NEW one) I'm still getting the EXACT SAME blending between my new terrain and other tiles! I've tried completely deleting ALL the terrain variants from the texsrc folder, and copying the whole thing back in and it STILL doesn't work.
And I know it's the same one because the new overlap texture is COMPLETELY different.
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Delete the files for your terrain in the TE cache folder.
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Another questions about the terrain tiles.
I've got my new tile design, replacing one of the existing ones. The problem is I'm getting ground clutter wholly inappropriate for the tile. Is there a way to change this clutter? Either by removing it outright, or changing it to use something else (actually, with what I'm doing the latter may be the best option)? Also, if the clutter CAN be changed, is it going to be for the WHOLE tile, or can you specify clutter for each of the four "subtile" types?
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so.. you have so far been talking about the texture files, right? :)
You can replace the existing "clutter" = terrain object tiles with new ones made in the Object Editor. Are you familiar with OE?
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I've mostly just done simple stuff (adding a couple simple retextures as new .shp's, gonna play with something a bit more complex once I get my basic terrain tile issues squared away). So basically, I can create a new .shp in OE, and set that as the clutter object in the TE.
Which brings up question 2: Is it possible to have more than one clutter type for a given tile texture? Say, if I set as subtype 0 it uses one clutter object, subtype 1 uses a different object, etc, etc?
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Answer 2:
Yes, the textures and the terrain objects are automatically related if they are named correctly. Subtype 0-3 affects both the texture and the objects. The biggest difference is that the texture for the subtype comes from one file, whereas the objects come from one quadrant of the object tile.
Check for an example pic in the "terrain vocabulary..." thread.
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Ok, since I don't mess with the object editor you have me totally confused now.
Are you saying that if you use the subtile(terrain texture) in quadrant 3 (in the TE) in all 4 quadrants, the clutter type from the quadrant you have labeled B (in the OE) in your diagram will be used in all 4 quadrants in the TE/Game?
Now there's a tongue twister. :)
STOP making me think this early in the morning! :furious
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LOL NHawk :),
but no.
The location of the quadrant is also considered. That particular object tile shows how the subtype 3 would look in each separate quadrant. It would have different looking "clutter" in each quadrant even though the texture subtype remains the same.
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Gotcha :aok
One day I'll actually play with the OE since I have AC3D. Just no time to mess with it.
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So in other words, I'd make one clutter object for each terrain texture subtype.
What's the naming convention? Say, I have a texture tile named terr0105, do I name the clutter object terr0105?
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Yes :) Same names, different file types... bmp / shp
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Ok. I've got my clutter shape(s). I've named them to match the subtypes (ter0x0y). I've cleared the map's cache. But it's STILL giving the default clutter. Grrr...
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x and y are real numbers between 0 and 3 right?
Did you make the new ter####.shp from htc default objects or did you use your own custom objects?
Does your object tile cover the whole mile grid in OE?
Are the object properties set properly? (1st and 3rd check boxes)
Do you see the white section lines at the bottom in OE?
If you want to, you can send your .til file and possible custom .shp:s to me and I can check them. email [username]@hitechcreations.com
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I'm using some of the default shapes provided that are idea for my purposes. Now that you're mentioning the check boxes in the properties I THINK I know what I forgot to do. I'll play with it more in the morning.
I HAVE run into another irritating problem...
I've created (well, modified from a stock model) a new object for my map. It displays perfectly fine in AC3D. HOWEVER, when I bring it into the OE, the "preview" in the corner is missing a VERY visible (and quite important) part of the model. When I add it to the work area, however, it's fine. But again, when I actually add the object to the map itself, it's back to missing those poly's.
I've had this happen once before, and I fixed it by rebuilding the entire model. The thing is, all I did was remake them the same way I did originally and the second time it worked. I HAVE tried flipping the normals, tho not vertex order as of yet (too late, and tired of messing with it). I'm not too familiar with AC3D (used to Rhino) and I THINK it's because I'm really looking at back faces, but I can't find an option to turn view back faces off. Anyone got a clue what's up with this?
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It sounds like your surface/object/group centers are not always the same. If you are editing surfaces in ac3d, try moving only the vertexes. That does not change the centers.
Also if you are copying objects or surfaces in ac3d, you will mess up teh hierarchy tree and have to regroup things to rebuild it and fix the various tags and properties as well.
If there are problems with surface visibility, try setting eveything 2-sided at first and check if they are visible. in OE and TE. 1-sided / 2-sided can be set in the lower left corner of teh ac3d window.
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Also, what does it take to get the editor to recognize that an object is a Tower? Obviously it's not just setting the "Tower" property because that still gives the "Field does not have tower" error.
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The tower also needs to have all that interior stuff. I have not tried making a tower, but the easiest thing would be to study the existing towers. Just export them from OE and open in Ac3d.
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So what, the radio, clock, chalkboard desk and OC all have to be part of the tower? Damn, 'cause it doesn't fit with what I'm doing. Unless it has to BE there, but doesn't matter if it's not VISIBLE....
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There's no tower on a CV but there's a good reason for that so of course there's no clock etc. I'd hate to have towers with no clock or chalk board for the MA or SEA.
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Well, if you saw what I'm doing you'd agree there's a good reason not to have it.
The question is, what IS required to make it recognized as a tower? AND how do you set the viewing perspective.
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Maybe you could try it by editing the existing tower and deleting things from it one after another.... I dont have an answer for that :(
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Ok, more issues with this new tower...
I've got the model itself built (how I WANT it, and dammed if I gotta change it :p ). As part of it I'm using the alpha channel to have a texture that can be partly seen through. It SORT of works.
The problem is, some parts of the model I AM getting the desired effect (this is on a staircase hand rail), but I can NOT see anything BEHIND the texture except for a place where I have ANOTHER alpha'ed texture (so, say I have a staircase with a poly on each side that serves as a hand rail. If I turn it so that I'm looking straight down I can see the steps. BUT, if I turn it so I'd be looking through the side of the texture all I can see is the other "hand rail" poly behind it. NOT the steps or any other part of the structure it overlaps). Thing is, as I said, there's one place where I CAN see "through" this texture as intended.
Anyone know whuzup with that?
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Have you set the StencilAlpha=1 tag to that object in ac3d?
Another thing that come to my mind is the order of the objects in the hierarchy three. They are rendered from top to bottom.. or was it from bottom to top :) ...but that order may also be the reason to what you see.
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How do you set that?
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Open the "object hierarchy window" in ac3d by pressing F8-key.
Then right-click the object and select "edit object data".
Add the "StencilAlpha=1" line to the object data window.
Tags like "MaxDist=####", "MinDist="####", "Dead=1" , etc are set the same way. All the groups (except the world group) also require the MaxDist tag.
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I think I figured out the tower thing (haven't tested it in-game yet to know for sure).
First I tried copying the pair of vertecies that appear to be linked to the viewing position, but no joy. When looking at the heirarchy, however, I noticed that one of the groups was called "twr" or something like that. So I renamed the appropriate group on MY model "twr," and voila! Terrain Editor recognized the tower!
I haven't tried it yet, but I'm fairly sure the same would work for map rooms and the OC.
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Ok, some new issues.
Foremost, once AGAIN I'm plague by a model that only partially appears. The part I borrowed from an AH shp appears fine, but my new parts are invisible!
The difference is, THIS time I can't get it to show up. I've tried flipping normals, reversing vertecies, setting it to double-sided, recentering. I have NOT tried looking at killing the StencilAlpha yet (the see-through parts are the objects using that, so I'm suspicious) so that's what I'm looking at next. I also haven't tried building it from scratch, but I REALLY don't want to do that, as that'd be a real pain in the butt.
Second, do the large/medium/small airfields (the pre-assembled default fields) have their aircraft entry points already in place? If not, how do you tell which way your aircraft entry points are facing when you add them?
Third, when you select the "Make Map" feature, is it possible to get it to show something OTHER than a plain, empty blue?
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Another question:
Is it possible to use the TE to create a Task Group WITHOUT a CV, or will it come back with an error or force the TG to continuously respawn?
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Another problem: I've added a port to my map (using the pre-created port0 shape, rather than manually creating it). HOWEVER, the problem I have now is that the editor keeps calling it an airfield, rather than a port! The funny thing is, I've got it to show the anchor map icon, but it STILL calls it an airfield, so I can't assign the CV to it. The help file is NO help, as it says to set the tower object data property to 2 for port. I can't individually select the tower individually. I WAS able to use the "change all" feature to get the tower set as a port tower (which is how I got the anchor in the TE) but it's still designated as "A#."
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Object hierarchy and object coordinate origins may be teh key to disappearing shapes or objects.
If you are editing the objects in ac3d, remember to check the coordinates for all objects and all groups. They should be kept as 0 0 0. If you move or deform any object or group, its origin will change. Therefore you may end up with with a model which looks ok in ac3d, but has the parts in different places in OE/TE/AH.
To avoid messing the origins, it is bets to select and edit only teh surfaces or vertexes. If you edit objects or groups, you have to check all the origins from that leve upwards and change them back to 0.
I hope that helps. If not, I can always check your ac3d file if you want to.
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I'll have to send you the file, my AC3D trial just expired. :p I'll get that to you in the morning.
Incidentally, the problem I'm having with the ports (displaying the right map icon, but identified as an airfield) is ALSO occuring when I tried to add a vehicle field.
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If you mean in the TE itself, all fields have the "A" designation until you shut down and re-start the TE.
That, or you aren't setting the Object Type to Group Master and the Object Data to 1 for a Vehicle Base and 2 for a Port.
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Ah, ok, I didn't think of setting it to Group Master. As I said, there's many areas where the "Help" file is of no help at all. :(
So what about Task Groups with no CVs? Are they possible?
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I've never tried it, but I don't think so. There's no hangar on any of the other ships, so there'd be no way to man the guns.
Someone else might know of a way to do it.
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Well, I've been experimenting with AC3D and the Object Editor on stuff like the Tower and Maproom (thanks again for the assistance, BlauK). Haven't actually tried any of my modifications in game, but I've made a completely new Tower and Maproom that ARE recognized by the terrain editor (note: COMPLETELY new, well, except for elements I borrowed from the default models, but at least not replacing the existing shapes so they're as good as new).
I wonder if it's possible to do the same with a ship. Say, take the CV, rip out its hangar, find the important bits in object properties, and build a new shape around it (something like a CIC) and put it into the cruiser model and rename it something like, CA2 or something to differentiate it from the default cruiser. Then just set its type to be a ship when you load it in the TE. The only thing that's technically changed on it is the addition of the hangar (maybe the tower, too, mocked up like the ship's bridge).
Now, one problem I forsee is that it'd probably still be called a "C" group, so there'd be some confusion unless you knew already that "C# is a cruiser."
Could probably have like, one special cruiser as the "command ship," with a second normal cruiser and a couple destroyers. It'd add a TON of flexibility for guys who like blowing watermelon up with big guns, plus, it'd allow the CV groups to stay a safe distance away from the target, and still have the firepower to pummel the enemy into submission by sending in the cruiser and tin cans to bombard bases (#2 reason I've noticed for bringing the CV groups right up to a base is for the firewpower).
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If you want power, why not just add a cruiser or two to the existing CV group? Then re-arrange the group so the CV is far behind the cruisers instead of right behind them.
I know there are CV groups with 2 cruisers on some existing maps.
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Originally posted by NHawk
Then re-arrange the group so the CV is far behind the cruisers instead of right behind them.
He might get carried away... don't want the bulk of fleet sailing across land. Besides, too many game Admirails park the Fleets as close to the end of the runway as possible. :mad:
Saxman were you working on a ships' bridge? I always thought the dead shape could be empty, or a transparent box ( or a rubber boat ;) ) to solve the dead CV problem but a bridge would be kool.
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Right now I'm just thinking up ideas, looking at what suggestions I've seen on the forums I can find a way to integrate into what I'm working on (actually, I've got a couple already).
The MAIN reason I want to find a way to get a Task Group with just gunships is that I'm trying to encourage kamikazee captains from doing just that with the CVs: Parking them half a mile off the base. Loss rates for CVs are absolutely ludicrous in the MA because of that tactic, and imo a carrier shouldn't be any closer than maybe a sector to a sector and a half away. By introducing dedicated gunship groups, one reason this is done (bringing in extra firepower to blow watermelon up) would be addressed. I'm hoping the nature of my map takes care of the second...
Anyway, as of right now I'm not modelling anything like that. FINALLY did my first completely from-scratch object that didn't have any problems (well, technically. I need to shrink it down because I misjudged the size of my reference). Also, if I try to model a ship's bridge, I'd probably be expected to texture it myself, which my mad skillz are more embarrassing than my flying (hence why I'm still looking for help in that regard).
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Update one two problems
First. I have two runways, both on the grass terrain tile with all four "quadrants" set to the default terrain texture (0). One is surrounded by forest at ~1500ft ASL, the other by grass terrain tiles at sea-level. Both use the same custom "airfield ground" object underneath (using the same groups and object names in the model as the default objects).
The problem is, the runway at 0 ASL is being crossed by clutter (hills, trees, hedges, etc) regardless of which of the four terrain textures I use. Obviously this is a VERY serious problem. I've tried setting the surrounding tiles to forest (which isn't appropriate for the location of the runway as it is) but that didn't correct the issue. Is there a way to override clutter in a tile when a runway is present? Is there something I'm missing, here? Is there a certain object type that needs to be set when manually placing an airfield ground object (Group Master, etc)? Why is it only affect the one runway?
Second, I was able to get the cruiser AC3d from the OE, although I think it's just the one used as a target at the Port. I'm not getting a listing for the CV at all. Anyone know if it's even POSSIBLE to get an AC3D model of the CV and cruiser from the TE?
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The air field ground should automatically cut the clutter under it. Did you see this cultter in TE or in game? Things you see in TE are not alwas teh same in game, so build your terrain once in a while and check how it looks in game.
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Haven't been able to get it into the game yet. Tried a build once, but when I tried to put it in, the game saw it, "loaded" it, but all I got was one of the default maps when I actually went to play it.
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I'm pretty tired, the kids just left, but open your construction in the OE and under File, Properties, check the boxes for is square tile object and display terrain under tile, uncheck the top one, terrain cell IIRC then rebuild it and move the shp file to the texsrc folder. Now when you build the map, it should work in game.
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I think you misunderstood, Easy. When I build the map in TE, and try to load it in AH per the instructions in the help file, when I go to play the map it just gives me whatever the last map to be used was.
Say, I have it on ozkansas. I load my map, restart AH, but instead of MY map, I'm still on ozkansas.
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You can load the map before you go in the game, in the same clipboard view where you select online/offline/h2h. Then just go offline to play on your map.
I suspect that the help files are mighty old ;)
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Originally posted by Saxman
Update one two problems
The problem is, the runway at 0 ASL is being crossed by clutter (hills, trees, hedges, etc) regardless...
Originally posted by Easyscor
I'm pretty tired, the kids just left, but open your construction in the OE and under File, Properties, check the boxes for is square tile object and display terrain under tile, uncheck the top one, terrain cell IIRC then rebuild it and move the shp file to the texsrc folder. Now when you build the map, it should work in game.
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Originally posted by Saxman
I think you misunderstood, Easy. When I build the map in TE, and try to load it in AH per the instructions in the help file, when I go to play the map it just gives me whatever the last map to be used was.
Say, I have it on ozkansas. I load my map, restart AH, but instead of MY map, I'm still on ozkansas.
What Blauk said, hit the "Load Terrain" button before you hit "Offline"
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Already tried, loading first doesn't work. I still just get the last default map that was set.
And again, the odd thing with the clutter is that I'm using the same "ground" object on two different airfields, and only ONE is getting clutter. The other field is perfectly fine. And I reiterate that both fields use the SAME ground object.
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Have you copied "yourmap".res from editor's ahiiterr folder to the AH2(the game)/ahiiterr folder?
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Yup. At one point I even tried including some of the other files, and the .bmp map generated by the TE (which, btw, doesn't show any land!)
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Originally posted by Saxman
Yup. At one point I even tried including some of the other files, and the .bmp map generated by the TE (which, btw, doesn't show any land!)
Huh? :O
You HAVE set some elevations and defined some areas as grass, forest, swamp etc haven't you? Not having done so is the only reason I can think of that would produce a map without any land.
Land masses are not objects that are editable in OE. Although you can create a land mass as an object. But it would still need to be placed in an area defined as land on the map.
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Originally posted by NHawk
Land masses are not objects that are editable in OE. Although you can create a land mass as an object. But it would still need to be placed in an area defined as land on the map.
NHawk,
the last sentence is not absolutely true. It is possible to create land masses on water with custom objects, but it is not the easiest thing to do ;) It will create problem e.g. with making the clipboard map.
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Originally posted by BlauK
NHawk,
the last sentence is not absolutely true. It is possible to create land masses on water with custom objects, but it is not the easiest thing to do ;) It will create problem e.g. with making the clipboard map.
True... that's why I said it needs to be placed on an area defined as land. Otherwise it won't show up as land on the clipboard map.
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cc.. I misread the end of your post :)
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Um...How about why I can't get the terrain itself to load in game?
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Send your .res file to me and I'll see if I can load it..
nhawk @ ah-terrains.com
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Ok, new questions, but first just a quick update.
Thanks to help from NHawk I've gotten my map loading in game and have got some screencaps. I'll get them up maybe tonight or tomorrow.
Anyway...
First, I have a question concernings coasts. Someone mentioned an option is to build it as a seperate model. As trying to use the terrain textures is more or less not going to work, I've decided to take that approach.
Of course, the problem is that this leads to one flipping HUGE model (we're talking ~2.5 sectors long). The other problem is that, due to the nature of the model, I can't tile the texture. Because of the massive size of the thing one 256x256 texture will OBVIOUSLY be inadequate. I've considered chopping it up into segments (like, 3x3 tile blocks) although that may still lead to too low-res textures. Finally I'd thought of just texturing each tile as a seperate object on the model, but besides a HORRENDOUS number of objects, it would also lead to a HORRENDOUS number of textures (The model would pretty much require each 1mi tile have a unique texture for the thing to work).
Anyone who's done work with coastlines/etc have any suggestions?
Also, I'm still looking for a way to get the CV and CA models in AC3D form so I can experiment with adding tower and hangar objects so I can try to create a pure gunship task group. So far I've received no replied on that one.
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Try to think modular. You should not make an object which is larger than 1mile x 1 mile.... 5280x5280 units (feet) in ac3d.
You can make one texture repeat over and over in one and same polygon. You just have to make the texture the same way as teh ground textures (= edges have to match teh opposite edges)
There are always 2 ways.. either make a big original object use only a few of those, or make several smaller objects and build tehm as groups in OE. Each case and decision depends on "how good it looks" versus "with how few polygons you can build it". The fewer polygons, the better... but you are teh one to decide a decent appearance.
The custom coast line system I and KAnttori built for teh upcoming 'Karelia' terrain includes 5 sets of differently shaped and textured coastline objects which each can be placed in 4 optional places within the mile square. Their max dimensions span for 1/4 of a mile, so at least 4 of tem are required for each mile sized water square, but they can also overlap in some places and when making a reiver with these objects, even 3 of them may reside in one quadrant. The main thing is that their textures match eachother on the edges. The objects were named according to which edges connected to land: n, e, s, w, ne, nw, se, sw and xx, which connected to all 4 sides. The xx object was needed to fill the empty quadrant when the actual coast line goes in the other 3 quadrants.
512x512 texture is adequate for covering 1 square mile of ground, even though the normal terrain tiles use the same resolution for just one quadrant.
I used 1024x1024 textures for a custom city shoreline. There I had 4 simple square polygons (size 2640x2640 units) and placed them in each quadrant of the mile.
The more complex models, like planes, vehicles and ships are not available in the OE. That is quite reasonalbel, since they have required lost of work, are made by HTC and could be easily stolen with teh easy ac export and to dxf from that.
I would also recommend putting the functional objects like tower, officer clubs, acks, shore batteries, etc aside for now. The export function in OE does not seem to export all the necessary funtional tags to ac files. When you convert tehm back to OE, they are visible, dont work anymore. I have tried this with a vehicle base tower object.
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Dammit. 'Cause the default tower is going to be WHOLLY inappropriate for some of my bases (as to the visible part, I'd already had the thought of just mapping the offending pieces to the transparent part on the texture).
Although incidentally, my new tower DOES appear in the game even if it's not wholly functional (I get a view I THINK in the middle of the field AGL, not perfect, but is acceptable for my purposes).
Too bad about the model issue, too. I REALLY wanted to have a pure gunship group.
Although.... what if I stick a tower somewhere on the map and use THAT in place of the CV and ITS tower? You already have to do that for the CV's maproom as it is, so perhaps the same would work for an all-gunship task group.
Anyway, back to the coastline...
So say that I have a coastline that runs for some 100+ miles. I'd have to break that up into a total of 100 seperate objects and then reassemble it as a group in OE?
Ew.
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Originally posted by Saxman
So say that I have a coastline that runs for some 100+ miles. I'd have to break that up into a total of 100 seperate objects and then reassemble it as a group in OE?
Nope.. you would build a certain number of objects (mile size or 1/4 mile size) and place them individually or as groups in TE. The groups are saved in TE.
btw. There are some screenshots of our coastlines and other stuff towards the end of this thread (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=169252).
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Either way, if I have hundreds of miles of coast, that means I'd need hundreds of individual objects on the map.
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Not necessarily. You can use the same object as many time as you want to.
Our map has over 22000 objects total, but there are only 197 individual custom objects in addition to HTC's default shapes. Only 44 of those custom shapes are different coast line shapes. All the different coasts have been created by varying their locations wihin each mile square.
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What I mean is that each full mile of coastline would need to be placed individually. If it's 100 miles, each of those 100 tiles would need to be placed individually, regardless of how many "unique" shapes there are.
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That is true.
Just ask Kanttori how many objects he has placed and defined during the past year :D He has aimed to make the coasts as close to the real map as possible.
Although, you can make object groups in TE which span over the mile square. For example, if you are satisfied with repeating the same pattern at certain distance.
But, still.. You better consider first what you want to achieve and how much time and effort you want ot put into it. Karelia was not the frst map Kanttori has been building. That is why I would suggest finishing a smaller and more simple terrain first, and only then engaging larger and more ambitious projects.
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I like to dive into things with all the preparation of a jabboing Buff. :D
Which btw, I'm still having a problem with some objects like runways.
I've FINALLY gotten it to MOSTLY recognize that my custom runway should be on TOP of the ground object. However I'm still getting clipping where the ground object bleeds through.
I'm ALSO having the actual terrain ITSELF bleeding through both the runway AND ground objects. I twice landed on the runway, and both times it gave me a "ditch," so I don't think it's properly registering I was, indeed, on the runway.
Thirdly, I'm having problems with other objects disappearing entirely when I'm looking right at them. This can vary on what view I'm using, (like, visible in the 9/3o'clock and all rear views, but disappearing if I use any forward views) the angle from which I'm viewing the object, and distance (they're disappearing as I get CLOSER). This could, obviously, be a SERIOUS problem.
Now, I wonder if those problems are related. All four objects in question ("ground" object, runway, and two buildings, were brought into the OE and created as a grouped object there, with the property set for is a "square tile object" and "display terrain beneath tile." That shouldn't cause this sort of a problem, should it?
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Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?