Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: funked on April 16, 2001, 02:40:00 PM
-
I've had it with this nation. Why does US taxpayers money go to help these barbarians?
-
Special interest politics within the DNC. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
(Tongue in cheek, Fd-ski, don't get 'cher panties in a bunch!)
-
Originally posted by funked:
I've had it with this nation. Why does US taxpayers money go to help these barbarians?
Probably because our politicians are better informed in this respect then you are.
Remember quite a few years ago US blasted Israel for bombing Iraqi reactor? Later we had to go and blast half the Iraq to smeethereens and ask Israel to tolerate missile strikes on their cities without retaliating, so that the nice US battle plans and politics were not upset?
Weren't we glad then the Iraqis had their nuclear program disrupted?
Unlike Syria, Iraq or China, you can visit Israel and talk to anyone there and see for yourself if they look like dangerous warmongers or if they are interested in violence. You may decide that Israeli are more like Americans then any other country when it comes to society values and democracy.
My friend there lives in a town that is shelled at least once a week from Lebanon for the ten years he has been there.
If some terrorists shelled California once a week from Mexico, I wonder how soon mexican government would have gotten a serious message from US military.
As for not paying for that - sure, abandon Israel to moslem fundamentalists, Taiwan to communists and Europe to genocidal nationalists. If you've never dealt with eather of those, you may even hope that they will not come for us eventually.
miko
[This message has been edited by miko2d (edited 04-16-2001).]
-
Let's see... U.S. offers to help Israel. U.S. sells arms to Israel. Israel sells arms to China. The U.S. butts heads with China regarding Taiwain, another country the U.S. wants to help.
Does this mean Taiwan gets to sell arms to Israel? or... somebody else...
-
And I bet I am better informed then you (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I work with the guys that do all the planning for operations and such. Amazing what little the public realy knows. What Isreal just did was open up a can of worms the US might not be able to help them out of. My .02 worth.
------------------
Sturm6 StaffelKapitän
JV44 Platzschutzstaffel
Airfield Defense Squadron
"The soup nazi"
-
Im not informed at all. What the heck are you going on about funked?
-
he's upset about this:
April 16 — Israeli jets pounded a Syrian radar station in Lebanon early this morning, killing at least three Syrian soldiers in its first attack on Syrian targets since 1996.
I can't judge them, as I don't live there but it seems they are just being proactive instead of reactive.
Eagler
-
Are we allowed to disagree with you Funked...
Or did you just throw that out there.
-
Funked,
Are you taling about Python missiles?
-
Attacking Syria wasn't too cleaver but thats just something you could expect from such a country.
-
Do not get me wrong - there must be plenty screw-ups in Israeli military and government - may be even as many as in ours! And their democracy - talk about a dozen major political parties!
Nevertheless, they are smart, educated, love their children very much and the frontline for most of them is closer then the distance we, americans, usually drive to a picknic.
So I assume they consider very carefully what they are doing. I've been there twice and my observation agree with my logic.
At the same time my first-hand experience with totalitarian regimes and religiuous fanatics tells me that those are not that considerate when it comes to the human lives - of their subjects and adversaries, of course, not of the ruling elite!
Israeli had a very mild and conciliatory government not long ago. Quite recently that government tried to buy peace by betraying their southern-lebanese christian allies. They unilaterally pulled out in too short time to let the southern lebanese even to evacuate to Israel.
Probably their experience of trying to live peacefully with spanish inquisition, Hitler and other zealots told them they would get be let alone this time...
They started paying for that immediately. Now the hawks are in power but the damage is done.
If we abandon Israel, what do you think will happen? Not only they have nuclear weapons, they have (or will shortly have) capability to conduct a nuclear strike even if the Israel itself is completely obliterated (deep shafts, submarines). Do you think they will care about US oil supplies when it comes to the nuke exchange?
Sandman,
Why look at Israel? Every year we (the US government and the citizens) pour $60 billion more into Chinese economy then they do into ours. It cost us jobs too!
Also, while we buy cheap consumer junk, some of it produced by prison labor, we sell them heavy industrial equipment, infrastructure, etc.
miko
-
Miko... no opinion here... just pointed it out because I found it ironic.
The U.S. alliance with Israel is somewhat sacrosanct. You can't question it or be labeled anti-semitic.
cheers
sand
-
I hope they (arabs and israelis) will sort their relations for once and for all. I haven't seen a proper international shooting competition since persian gulf... Arab/Israeli war is long overdue! Get on with it!
------------------
jochen / Gefechtsverband Kowalewski
Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87D, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.
Sieg oder bolschevismus!
-
Well I hope that the fundamentalist muslims and jews blast each other from the face of this planet. After that there will only be like umpteen other religions to deal with -- ...no, wait, this was supposed to be a serious conversation.
------------------
---
SageFIN
"I think I´ll believe in Gosh instead of God. If you don´t
believe in Gosh too, you´ll be darned to heck."
---
-
big amen funked!!!!!!!
the sooner we lose our ties with these animals the better. let them reap what they've sown with the arabs without big daddy usa there to help em. the sooner the palestinians get those squatters off their land the better.
-
so Miko, let me get this right:
Jugolslavs are "dealing" with moslem fundamentalists trying to seceede a part of their country and we bomb them, abolish their government and put up the trials for crimes against humanity ( notice how none of the mass graves with 1000s of bodies in them never matieralized ? )
yet when Israel does it, it's ok and we should help them out ?
Personally i have no problem with the israel's way of dealing with its problems, never did. But it's a diddlying hypocricy of US government and US population's simplistic abbriviation of world's view that really pisses me off (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
------------------
Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF
Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998
Northolt Wing Headquarters (http://www.raf303.org/northolt/)
-
Amen brother Ski.
------------------
jochen / Gefechtsverband Kowalewski
Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87D, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.
Sieg oder bolschevismus!
-
FD:
I thought the <sic>"United Nations"(with the "Mad Bomber" Bill Clinton as C.I.C.) initiated the bombing, and the War Crime Trials, in Yugoslavia. I recall seeing the "Union Jack" and German black-crosses on some of the military vehicles in Kosovo.......
Seeing the Iron Cross on tanks rolling on foreign soil was quite a shock to me during the Kosovo action. A sight that pretty much went un-commented on by the Clinton-worshipping US Media at the time.....
As for the American People's "abbreviated" view of the World, it's nothing compared to that of Hitler's, or the Japanese Military's of the early 1940's.......or the World's view of what the people of the United States really think.........
And i agree, FD-Ski. Bill(the Mad Bomber)Clinton and the Liberal Democrats are Hypocrites of the highest order......
Cabby
[This message has been edited by cabby (edited 04-18-2001).]
-
Jews were slaughtered by that crazy austrian who somehow got to lead a country.
Looks like some of them now wants to play hitler themself.
I wonder what would happen if Israelis would quit revenging the terrorist attacks.. since then they couldn't excuse it with "israelis killed ten kids that were throwing molotovs at them".
Though, these terrorists countries havent much minded about reasons anyway.
Probably would be then having just another reason...
Though, bad problem here is that religions that israelis fight against, favors martyres, which causes just more and more problems as israelis kills more palestinians.
(and they dont care about reasons, they see it just as one more dead.. no matter had he just shot 10 israelis or not)
-
What you see happening in that region is the alternative to negotiation . But imo, they should've never tried to negotiate with terrorists in the first place . Idealism increases with ones distance from the problem . I think alot of americans should make Isreal their next vacation destination .
[This message has been edited by Suave1 (edited 04-18-2001).]
-
Israel is surrounded by hostile countries, most of which have vowed to eradicate Israel from the map and kill off all Israelis.
In the last 50 years, they've had, what, 3 wars of survival?
For someone that hasn't been there, I think it is hard to understand the siege mentality there - and it's there *for a reason*. Israelis are too smart to mindlessly going out on genocidal wars. We all know that if they would elect to go really rough on the Palestinians, the palestinians would be hard pressed to defeat the Israeli.
If Syria and other neighbors thought an attack was feasible and could result in some succes, they'd launch it. History shows this.
Americans talk much about freedom and the right of self protection. In Israel, it's more of a necessity than a right. Unless they fight back, they WILL be overrun. That's a fact; don't for a moment think the dictatorships and totalitarian regimes surrounding Israel will think twice about getting rid of a despised and hated enemy.
Their reactions might not be right, but they're bloody much better than what the rest of the countries in the region would have done and have done. And, it's about the only democracy in the area.
Before I describe Israelis as barbarians, I consider their history. I disagree strongly with the religious nutter hardliners, but one has got to admit that they got their back against the wall.
It'd be barbaric of them to indiscriminantly start mass killings of Palestinians. That ain't happening. Unfortunately lives are lost (mostly Palestinians) during the violent protests, but Israel is by no means attacking the palestinians in a barbaric war of annihilation.
------------------
Von Santa
Staffelkapitän 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"
-
Quote:
"Looks like some of them now wants to play hitler themself."
Horsesh**.
BTW, the USA executes/imprisons terrorists too. We "revenge" terrorist attacks as well. If Arab terrorists want to be "martyrs", they will find it easy to attain that goal.
The Jews aren't going to be anyone's victims again. Ever. Get used to it........
Cabby
[This message has been edited by cabby (edited 04-18-2001).]
-
I'd like to add that the key oganization that Isreal is defending against (PLO). Basically invented modern terrorism . Remember Black September(PLO) at 72 olympics . This was the event that drove developed countries, USA included, to organize counter-terrorist assets . This organisation has a very colorfull history that they are openly proud of, ie. holding elementary schools hostage and many other proud exploits .
-
let me ask you a question...who (what nation representatives) have biggest accounts in US banks? or maybe owe US banks? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
let's say that i'm interested in it...it's not a suggestion (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
btw. well siad FD (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by bike killa (edited 04-18-2001).]
-
Originally posted by mrfish:
big amen funked!!!!!!!
the sooner we lose our ties with these animals the better. let them reap what they've sown with the arabs without big daddy usa there to help em. the sooner the palestinians get those squatters off their land the better.
I'd go for this, but this isn't the case. If we stop backing Israel, will others stop backing Palestine? Don't think so. Problem is Israel has to lower themselves to the "animal" level in order to combat the animals attacking them. Can't recall the last time an Israelite blew up a bus full of women and children via a suicide nutcase bomber, can you? Who's the bigger animal?
Eagler
-
Cabby, can you ever discuss something without bringing your twisted view on domestic politcs into it ?
As for Israel, as far as i'm considerned, they should ship all the palestinians out to Syria/Egipt whatever. They will never come to any peaceful solutions. Palestinians want their own country, Israel won't give up the ground. 2 + 2 is not 3, sorry.
Point being, you can't have your cake and eat it too. As it stands, Israel is treading Palesinians as second class citizens in all aspects of social and political life. It is a system that reeks of racisms, yet you don't see USA yelling to high heaven about the abuse. Once again, inconsequence.
Kick them all out, if they want it, they have to take it. They tried 3 times and got a bloody nose. Now more then every they would get one again. If Israel wants to take something by force, they shouldn't do half assed job and then try to calm things down with half assed measures. Either take it or give it back, simple as that.
As for US involvement in that whole situation, just read up on NYC politics and that will give you all the explanation you need.
------------------
Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF
Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998
Northolt Wing Headquarters (http://www.raf303.org/northolt/)
-
Originally posted by fd ski:
so Miko, let me get this right:
Jugolslavs are "dealing" with moslem fundamentalists trying to seceede a part of their country and we bomb them, abolish their government and put up the trials for crimes against humanity ( notice how none of the mass graves with 1000s of bodies in them never matieralized ? )
yet when Israel does it, it's ok and we should help them out ?
Personally i have no problem with the israel's way of dealing with its problems, never did. But it's a diddlying hypocricy of US government and US population's simplistic abbriviation of world's view that really pisses me off (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
FD, luckily, you live in a free country, where you are entitled to voice your displeasure of US "hipocracy" or even leave if you wish. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-
Don't the Brits owe the US more than any country ?? or was that the Italiano , or spain ? no , I think It may be Germany , er the French . OH well , its only money .
-
Cabby - you mean 'Union Flag'. The 'Union Jack' is the naval version.
Why should the Teutonic cross of Germany disturb you so much? It isn't a nazi symbol at all. Or are all Germans Nazis in your view?
Israel will always be funded by the West, because it is a democratic ally in the Middle East - they are few and far between.
-
Originally posted by Dowding:
Israel will always be funded by the West, because it is a democratic ally in the Middle East - they are few and far between.
This answers FUnks question IMO...if you have hostile territory where you depend on energy sources, you must maintain a 'foothold' there, Israel is it. Thats why I'm for tapping more internal resources (oil in Alaska).
-
Originally posted by bike killa:
let me ask you a question...who (what nation representatives) have biggest accounts in US banks? or maybe owe US banks? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
let's say that i'm interested in it...
We know the answer to that question.
Would you venture an opinion why jews are disproportionately rich in US and many other countries?
Would you like me to offer my explanation? I have a good one IMO.
FD:
The israeli society are as divided as any other. They have plenty of people who argue for building a "Berlin Wall" and not letting palestinians work in israel or enter it altogether.
It would not solve the problem of shelling from palestinian territories and Lebanon, but it would help a lot with suicide bombers and other terrorists in Israel itself.
Despite refugee palestinians living in arab countries for decades, those do not give them citizenships because they need desperate homless people fighting Israel for them.
miko
[This message has been edited by miko2d (edited 04-18-2001).]
-
Dowding:
Of course i don't think all German's are Nazis. I'm of German extraction myself. Big deal.
AFAIK, the use of German troops in Yugoslavia is the first time i had seen the Cross in action outside of Germany since WWII. To allegedly stop "Ethnic Cleansing" no less. To me, that is extremely newsworthy. And if you think the Serbs watching German armored vehicles roll by in their homeland and the thought "Nazis" didn't cross these people's minds........
As for "Union Jack" vs. "Union Flag" i can't tell the difference. How about i just call it by it's old Imperialist name: "The Bloody Rag"......
Cabby
-
I don't know the answer, and I think this is a pretty anti-semitic path you are heading down, you sure you want to go there?
In fact I find alot of the tone in this post to be borderline anti-semitic and am surprised by some of the posters, guys I thought would know better and who I have flown with and still do in some cases. I guess its good to know where some of you stand.
Ram1
Originally posted by miko2d:
We know the answer to that question.
Would you venture an opinion why jews are disproportionately rich in US and many other countries?
Would you like me to offer my explanation? I have a good one IMO.
-
Originally posted by cabby:
Dowding:
Of course i don't think all German's are Nazis. I'm of German extraction myself. Big deal.
AFAIK, the use of German troops in Yugoslavia is the first time i had seen the Cross in action outside of Germany since WWII. To allegedly stop "Ethnic Cleansing" no less. To me, that is extremely newsworthy. And if you think the Serbs watching German armored vehicles roll by in their homeland and the thought "Nazis" didn't cross these people's minds........
As for "Union Jack" vs. "Union Flag" i can't tell the difference. How about i just call it by it's old Imperialist name: "The Bloody Rag"......
Cabby
People are way over reacting on such things..
Too many people thinks FAF insignia 1918-1945 as nazi swastika, even though only its generic shape is same, but otherwise in different angle and color.
-
Originally posted by Ram1:
I don't know the answer, and I think this is a pretty anti-semitic path you are heading down, you sure you want to go there?
In fact I find alot of the tone in this post to be borderline anti-semitic and am surprised by some of the posters, guys I thought would know better and who I have flown with and still do in some cases. I guess its good to know where some of you stand.
Ram1
Originally posted by miko2d:
We know the answer to that question.
Would you venture an opinion why jews are disproportionately rich in US and many other countries?
Would you like me to offer my explanation? I have a good one IMO.
I am surprised you had that impression from my post, Ram1.
I was actually offering to post quite rational (as it seems to myself) and definitely not anti-jewish explanation. I just wanted to see if there is any interest in it and what is his version, if any.
Most people are very ignorant about jews other then the perceived disparities of income and influence. Those are quite real in most cases - it's just that there is a completely reasonable explanation for them - not the "world conspiracy", a different one.
miko
-
Cabby:
So your point is what exactly? It was carried at the time on the reports I saw and read, but I guess most people think the world has turned.
And if you think the Serbs watching German armored vehicles roll by in their homeland and the thought "Nazis" didn't cross these people's minds........
To be frank, many of them were thinking far worse thoughts than that. Some of those thoughts translated into actions; take Srebrenica as an example.
As for "Union Jack" vs. "Union Flag" i can't tell the difference. How about i just call it by it's old Imperialist name: "The Bloody Rag"......
Call it what you like, it really wouldn't bother me one iota. But ignorance is such an ugly trait and it's a shame you display it like a Palestinian waving a kerosene doused "'Old' Glory".
[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 04-18-2001).]
-
I find it sadly ironic that what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians is pretty much what the Nazis did to the Jews. Another case of 'doomed to repeat history once again."
-
Originally posted by leonid:
I find it sadly ironic that what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians is pretty much what the Nazis did to the Jews. Another case of 'doomed to repeat history once again."
At what point does one meet his tolerance? At the point where your 12 yr olds are waiting at a bus stop for school in the morning, and another 12 yr. old who is Palestian walks up and detonates a small bomb...then the local police knock at your door and ask if you can come and identify your child by any indentifying birthmarks that may be intact on the lump of flesh they have at the morgue?
At what point do we all say "Enough is enough!"???
-
Originally posted by leonid:
I find it sadly ironic that what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians is pretty much what the Nazis did to the Jews. Another case of 'doomed to repeat history once again."
...and the Palestinians are doing to the Israelis pretty much what the Jews did to the Nazis?
Point to Ripsnort.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
-
Originally posted by leonid:
I find it sadly ironic that what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians is pretty much what the Nazis did to the Jews. Another case of 'doomed to repeat history once again."
I don't see any death camps with ovens burning 24/7. Think you are exaggerating the Palestine side leonid. DO you think the Israelites would continue their attacks if the Palestine ceased theirs? I do not. Did the Jews attack the Nazis - Nope. Full of holes, your comparison.
Eagler
-
Originally posted by Eagler:
Can't recall the last time an Israelite blew up a bus full of women and children via a suicide nutcase bomber, can you? Who's the bigger animal?
Eagler
wow eagler, somewhere a news executive is clapping. you have the exact response you've been trained to have. isreal good and innocent, palestinians bad ugly smelly and evil. please chuck norris come save us!
i didnt hear you mention their frequent rocket attacks against political enemies and yes they have cut short many palestinian children's lives. a recent demonstration in san francisco laid out some 200 coffins, each with the picture of a slaughtered palestinian innocent. so yes, talking to real live palestinians and seeing the faces of their dead childre i do think the israelis are animals.that isn't on cnn very often though is it? you are always to be counted on to have the mass media opinion though so im not surprised.
if you want to educate yourself past the reactionary level, and think twice about what the government is spoonfeeding you, you could start by reading the palestinian news and there is a great book by ahron bregman (a jew) and jihan el-tahri called 'israel and the arabs' which is informative. it works toward peace but descriobes how the jews stole israel from the palestinians and how they went from owning 8% of the land with a population equalling 1/3 of the total to owning 50% of the land - stealing it from the rightful owners. also how they bribed united nations votes and rejected a resolution wherin both sides would have equal representation - kinda like errrr i dont know... our govt? why did the us vote to give total control to the jews and not a rep system when our country is founded on those principals? as one dedicated to freedom and not prone to suckle knowledge from the teat of the media i have serious concerns about that decision.
by the way eagler, the seminoles want florida back and even though they make up a small minority, they are going to live where your house is. you and your family will have to move to the trailer park side of jacksonville and they will make the laws and if you dont follow them you will be executed or jailed - no trial necessary. but youve been there for years what abouyt your jib and your family...?if you dont like it tough they are in charge now. you offer a deal wherin you propose splitting control equally over the whole land instead of splitting it up but the seminoles have big backing and they dont like you having any power.
they have a huge country with supporting them so dont bother resistance. oddly the huge country's population is also only 2% seminole but they seem to have disporportionately high amounts of seminoles in positions within the media and big business, sciencce and government.
you see tampa is actually the seminole 'promised land' so you really have no claim to it. the seminoles have been persecuted elsewhere so you have every moral right to move so they can have a pl;ace of their own. of course states like alabama and georgia and mississippi will be sympathetic and try to support you. the brave lone seminoles will have to fight "a war of survival" because of the inherently agressive nature of those states (i mean reallly dont they understand its the seminole promised land? why are they trying to help you get your land and home back - animals?) if you resist you will slandered by the big county's media and negatively protrayed in films. daily, the news will reaffirm your lowly devilish status and people will loathe you. so get packin after all fair is fair right?
-
mrfish
thanks for the comparison. some days I'd give this hot humid bug filled now waterless state right back to the Seminoles. Don't know if I could resort to blowing up a bus load of Seminole women and children or have my child throwing rocks or gas bombs at soldiers with tanks and guns unless I didn't care if he lived or died.
both sides have blood on their hands. The Israelis are not innocent nor have I ever stated such. But if the Palestine have been "conquered" they should act as such or expect the consequences. So are you telling me the only reason the Palestine and the rest of the Arab world hates America is because we support Israel? Don't believe it. THey hate us to hate something and we are an easy target we have and they have not. With that amount of hate towards the US in that region of the world, I'll support Israel before I side with terrorists.
Eagler
-
mrfish,
There was never a question of jews and palestinians living in a common state. Why would jews want to live in a fundamentalist islamic state?
Equal representation? Why would palestinians and many other arab regimes not want to exterminate jews if they lived in the state with equal representation?
Even if that did work, have you compared the birth rates? How long would the equal representation last before judaism was outlawed?
Last time palestinians has a slight disagreement with one of their main supporters, they tried to murder him and grab his country - remember what heppened in Jordan?
The UN decided to create two states. Once british withdew, arabs attacked first and have kept at it since. If they hadn't, the palestinians would have had their state and Israel would have been much smaller now.
No arab country helps palestinians - they are not welcome anywhere and they are not granted citizenships even if they were born there and lived 30 years.
miko
-
well hmmm - i know you are an israeli supporter through your many posts praising israeli's and how kind they are - family maybe? - i have to disagree with you however on the facts.
earnest bevin, the british foreign sec. decided to leave the decision up to the united nations - declaring that the uk had no power to give palestine to the jews.
they offered 2 proposals:
1. a partitioned state, equally jew and arab. this proposal was favored by the jews and rejected by the arabs. which isnt suprising considering they owned 92% of the land. why would they give up 42% of their homeland?
2. was a unified state - it was in fact proposed - ask some of your people who lobbied against it. it would be one state providing proportional democratic representation for each of the indigenous groups (christian, moslem, hindu, jew). sound familiar? kinda like....errr....i dont know...the u.s.? this of course was rejected by the jews - they wanted to boot the existing palestinians - plain and simple.
a UNSCOP committee, headed by swedish judge emil sandstrom met to consider the matter. remember this was up to the united nations (about 1 yr old at the time) and not britain who decided to no longer administer the san remo treated and announced their withdrawal in '48 regardless.
on nov 27th the UN met to vote - the arabs had a majority of votes at that time, but the vote was delayed due to thanksgiving in the US. the jews used this time to shamelessly bribe, threaten and coerce anyone they could.
- for example: robert nathan, one of many rich and influential american corporate destroyers threatened to round up other business jews and boycott people like harvey firestone who had huge rubber plantations in places like liberia and brazil unless he used his influence to sway the vote. liberia changed their vote at the 11th hour - imagine that....
- 26 us senators who were major recipients of jewish campaign contributions pressured the phillipines threatening to withhold US credit if they didnt change their vote.guess what.....
- jewish organizations produced a 5 million dollar loan from old quiet jew money in the states to bribe haiti
- prince wan of thailand, feeling pressured and threatened by jews left the country to avoid voting - another former yes vote gone....
and this is only the 1st stage! they only get more ruthless form here!
i could go on and on but at the risk of disgusting a nation any further i'll stop. i invite everyone to check it out. this only came up once in my education history, my 10th grade history teacher, mr feinberg, didnt spend much time on this subject.just long enough to villify the arab and sanctify the jews.
the media and you mikod would have the israelis planting flowers and kissing babies. i however sympathize with an indigenous people who were swindled from their home. americans wouldnt stand for it - how can we support our governments advocacy of a nation of bandits?
i saw a commercial form an org. called 'wings of eagles'. a guy was standing in a memorial orchard in israel. each tree was planted to honor a non-jew who helped them through their persecution. he thanked the people who freed them in wwii but asked the audience why there were not more? why more non-jews hadnt helped? he insuated that they should feel guilty about that and then send $350-$1000 to them to fly a jew from russia to israel. the ad was meant to appeal to guilty christians - he stated that russian jews might be subject to religious persecution and in need of immediate help -
why not ask the exceedingly wealthy american jew community? why hit up christians to save your people? wasnt cutting the lock at dachau and aushwitz enough? wasnt sending thousands of american to die on the beaches of normandy enough sacrifice? many heartbroken and wives mothers in the 40's thought so.
where is the support for the kurds or armenians? the kurds are the largest ethnicity without a homeland. why dont we partition turkey and iraq and get them started? i mean they are being just as persecuted as the jews - why isnt this a big deal to us? it is a matter of perspective thats why - there arent nearly as many influential kurds pulling favors and muscling people around.
opinions can be tainted and easily manipulated in a nation of overfed sheep but the facts will always be a matter of record.someday the facts will come to bear and the israelis will get what's coming to them......
-
"Israelis" have already gotten what's coming to them. Several times through history.
------------------
Von Santa
Staffelkapitän 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"
-
Quote:
"the israelis will get what's coming to them......"
Where have i heard this before???
Cabby
-
If USA stops the support to Israel, won't Hollywood get shut down?
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-
'the media and you mikod would have the israelis planting flowers and kissing babies. i however sympathize with an indigenous people who were swindled from their home. americans wouldnt stand for it - how can we support our governments advocacy of a nation of bandits?'
uh, wasn't that exactly how america as we know it was created? What happened to the indian tribes? Reservate time, baby.
I agree on that, the Israelis are using the religion (historically looking the same thing repeats with different countries so many times, it's getting dull) as the justification of taking the land of palestinians. Why is Israel surrounded by hostile nations? Because they took the land from them by force maybe?
-
Nay, the Arab would would still hate us if Israel were there or not. Israel is our 1st line of defense against the nutcase terrorist and I for one support them to do our dirty work as the world opinion would be less than favorable (though they'd all breathe easier) if we sailed a cruise missile into the livingroom of every home of every active terrorist on file, which I'd support also. After a few dozen missiles, the rest would get the idea.
Instead of fighting why aren't the Palestine making do with what they have? Why do they continue to fight instead of grow? I think they'd do better if they asked for assistance with their economy to get themselves out of the stone age. I think they are just jealous of what Israel has done with itself just as they are of the US but disguise their envy by calling it a "Holy" war. Shame they are taught hate instead of love.
Eagler
-
MrSid, Jews have been persecuted, murdered, hated and loathed for several centuries. They've been scape goats in european countries for a long time and suffered horrendous crimes.
After WWII, for understandable reasons, the victors felt guilty i gather and decided to use what colonial powers they still had.
Gave the Jews a small perch of land and said "now, defend yourself". They've done *exactly* that since then. In its short life, Israel has been through three wars of survival.
Compared to how tough they could have decided to be vs the Palestinians, they're really softies. Compared to how nations think such a situation should be handled (despite said nations not having a clue what the situation is like) it's a very rough and unfair treatment.
Compared to how its neightbors have handled such situations in the past, they're angels.
It ain't right. It's not right to collectively punish the Palestinian people for the cowardly acts of terrorism carried out by military extremists. It's not right to kill young children with rubber coated bullets. It's definitely wrong to surgically assassinate the political leaders of the other side. This we can probably agree on.
But what can the Israelis do? It is a democracy and barak pushed the peace VERY hard - so hard in fact that when Arafats organisation continued the Intifada to gain momentum at the negotation table, Barak lost his position. To a hard line right wing politician notorious for his involvment in a crime against humanity.
The current situation was quite predictable, and Arafat should have seen it coming. He got Barak out of office, and now has to deal with a right wing hardliner. When he finally decided to start working more seriously with Barak, it was too late.
So far israel has carried out assassinations on high level Palestinian figures through the use of chopper based weaponry. In the daily clashes, they've used rubber coated bullets against what they see as aggressors.
It's a combat situation - soldiers make mistakes, and shoot first and ask later. It is my opinion however, that the soldiers did not place 12-14 year olds on the front line - their parents failed to exercise the proper control or even condoned such activities. By now, everyone knows the drill. Israelis aren't surprised when one of their soldier gets killed, or when a bus load of Israeli civilians gets blown to smithereens. The Palestinians aren't surprised when yet another young boy gets killed while throwing rocks and molotov cocktails at agressive and probably scared Israeli soldiers. One must remember that every male in israel serves a mandatory three years in the armed forces. Some probably shouldn't be there at all, but necessity dictates such extreme measures.
It's not an easy situation. The Israelis might be (in our eyes) overreacting, but to their defense must be said that they tried the other approach. The Palestinians have once again resorted to "state" (or "authority in this case) sponsored terrorism.
While I feel for the Palestinian people, I do not for the terrorists. While I can appreciate the severity of the situation seen from the Israeli side, I do not condone it.
But I can understand it and Israel could respond in a much more brutal way, but has elected not to.
------------------
Von Santa
Staffelkapitän 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"
-
2. was a unified state - it was in fact proposed - ask some of your people who lobbied against it. it would be one state providing proportional democratic representation for each of the indigenous groups (christian, moslem, hindu, jew). sound familiar? kinda like....errr....i dont know...the u.s.? this of course was rejected by the jews - they wanted to boot the existing palestinians - plain and simple.
mrfish:
Replace "U.S. in the above statement with "Germany of 1932" and check how that sounds.
I bet that 1932 Germany was much more enlightened and had less persecution of jews then U.S. did in 1932.
As for using money and infuence to affect the outcome of a democratic process - what's wrong with that?
I think you are upset that jews have disproportionately more money and influence - well, that is what you get in a capitalist society if you have a higher IQ and a tradition of learning and hard work. You do not get to have money in this society unless you produce and sell something other people need - products, knowlege or skills.
miko
-
StSanta, the British Empire had always promised to create a separate Jewish state within the Palestinian Protectorate, as it was. We actively supported Jewish paramilitaries in the Middle East right up until the advent of WW2. And frankly, any guilt Britain has regarding the holocaust pales into insignificance beside that of Germany.
If you want to learn more, look up the activities of a certain Captain Wingate, who was in Palestine in the pre-war years - he created special commando squads, hand-picked from Jewish and British units. Somewhat disgraced towards the end of his career due to his heavy handedness against Arabs. Interesting all the same.
-
Santa, "defend yourself" is ok to me, as long as it's not comming with Heavy Armour against stones...
I understand the pressure with Syria for example, but what is happening in "Ghazza" is beyond what I can think rationaly...
Saw
-
Originally posted by miko2d:
I think you are upset that jews have disproportionately more money and influence - well, that is what you get in a capitalist society if you have a higher IQ and a tradition of learning and hard work.
So you have studied that jews have more intelligent than Anglo- or AfroAmerican people? Should we call them UberMenschs ?
-
Btw Israel ppl have quite good K/D ratio against Palestinians; Its about 4/1 right now in this year.
-
Originally posted by miko2d:
As for using money and infuence to affect the outcome of a democratic process - what's wrong with that?
-
One thing is clear: Miko has no idea what democracy means.
Using money and influence to affect democratic decisions is widely known for the word corruption. Next Miko will ask: What's wrong with corruption? Lol.
One more thing: there must be a huge amount of fake americans on this bb, judging by the way they're spelling their native language.
*wobble, hint* (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
-
Saw, every army tries to make their soldiers life as safe as possible.
These tanks could easily wipe out large parts of the people doing the protests, but they aren't.
The protesters or rather individuals within that group, carry assault guns. Such guns can penetrate through soft vehicles quite easily. Against a tank, they're largely useless. Both sides know this.
If the tanks were employed in another way or if there wasn't gun battles every night, them being there might be an overkill. As it is, I don't think it is.
Just IMHO.
-
I hope palestinians could have samekind of armament like Israel is using against them.
I would like to see Hizbollah using Bell Huey Cobra's rockets, missiles and 20mm cannon against Israel civilians and MBT's with green flag shelling Israel's villages.
This years saldo:
100 dead Israelian and 400 Palestinian.