Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Kweassa on January 05, 2006, 05:43:33 AM
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With a free Spit16, that actually decimated the usage level of the fastest non-perked deck speed fighter with good maneuverability and 3x 20mms... we've now officially got nothing to fear!!!!!! :D :D
Spit14! Not much faster than the Spit16 at deck, nor does it roll or turn better. There maybe a bit of advantage in climb, since IIRC the Spit14 is on par with the 109K in climb performance... but in most aspects the Spit16 seems clearly the better for pure A2A purposes, and its a free plane. The only real advantage is the Spit14's spectacular speed at over 25k... It's basically what the Ta152H is to the Fw190D!!!
All the freed Spit14 will do is split up the former Spit16 usage a bit more!
Unperking the F4U-4 will give a new, free F4U type that truly matches the MA competition levels as a 'uber fighter', as in the Fw190D(dragster plane), Bf109K-4(super E grabber), P-51D(THE all-purpose fighter), La-7(dragster plane that can turn), and etc etc.. Will it be overused? Who's gonna overuse it anyway? The Spit/La folk will never give up their easy mode planes for the F4U-4. The only people who will 'overuse' this plane is the folks who already liked blue navy planes in the first place.
As for the Ta152H - well, no explanation needed imo. The worst plane perked ever.
As I always say, if we're not gonna perk late-war fighters on a universal basis, then unperk all the late-war prop fighters on a universal basis. Perking some planes and some not, just doesn't make sense anymore. The Chog was the first conventional prop fighter in the game to be perked... but times have changed. There are many all-purpose AC in the game now.
There is a wide variety of late-war planes alone, to choose from. The dominance of Spits and Las will never fade as long as they remain free. Any other late-war fighters (with the exception of the Temp) being unperked, frankly won't even make the slightest dent in their usage stats. All it can do, the ONLY thing unperking these planes can do, as a matter of fact, is just increase the variety of plane usage for other late-war fighters, rather than worsen it !!
UNPERK THE Spit14, Ta152H, and the F4U-C, and the F4U-4!!!
Spit14 is harmless now. We already have the free Spit16 in the game. Anyone who thinks unperking the Spit14 will suddenly make all Spit pilots give up their Spit16 and move to Spit14, is criminally insane!
Ta152H is by far the suckiest plane in the history of Ah to be perked! Some won't even tough it despite it is free!
The F4U-C has many contenders in the 'multi-purpose' plane category now! Not to mention the popularity of 'blue planes' have dropped greatly in general, over the years!
The F4U-4 is at best, a P-51D that turns and climbs a bit better, but massively limited in flight time! It's fast, but hey, we already have Typhs and La-7s free. It climbs good, but does it outclimb a Bf109K-4, which is free? It carries a heckuva lot of ord - but the free P-47N which does about 365mph at deck, also carries a damn lot of ordnance. Which plane does all of that and still remain free? The P-51D of course, silly! Slightly worse in fighter performance but hey, it does most everything the F4U-4 can do except take off from the CV.
Everyone, chant after me.
UNPERK THE Spit14, Ta152H, and the F4U-C, and the F4U-4!!!
UNPERK THE Spit14, Ta152H, and the F4U-C, and the F4U-4!!!
UNPERK THE Spit14, Ta152H, and the F4U-C, and the F4U-4!!![/b]
UTSTAFF!!!
UTSTAFF!!!
UTSTAFF!!!
UTSTAFF!!!
I now declare myself the servant of the god of perks, Perkah, his only prophet, and the leader of the UTSTAFF movement!
Hail UTSTAFF!!!
Hail UTSTAFF!!!
Hail UTSTAFF!!!
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Well said! :aok
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Praise UTSTAFF. Well said indeed.
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NO
TA-152, by all means. Spit 14, hmmm drop it to 1 or 2 perks.
Leave the hawgs where they are.
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Rather then unperk anything
I'd rather see the 16 perked somewhere along the lines of the Tempests as they should be
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perk more than the use of one paragraph per post!!!! double perks for run-on sentences and paragraphs. banning for lack of punctuation!
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Why not unperk the Me262? Let us have an unperked Me163 on every base.
geez....
Allways this crying for unperked end of war planes.
Erich Hartmann would laugh. He didn't need unperked dweebfires to get 352 kills.
Many in here underestimate the TA 152, maybe thats why i have such a good kill/death ratio with this really good plane.
And yes, i like this LA 7 dweebs, they are so easy to kill with the K4 and the D9. -:lol They feel so save when they see a 109 or a 190 but they get so often spanked.
Don't cry for unperked plane, take a other type of balancing.
Perk all planes bellow an eny of 25 on the basic of the players kill/death ratio. A higher kill/death ratio increases the perkvalue on all planes bellow 25 eny. That would be nice.:D
Let have beginners all planes without perks and experienced players have to pay for good planes. :eek:
I'll give you an excample:
A player with a kill/death ratio of 1 get all planes unperked.
A kill/death ratio of 3 for excample perks the dweebfire 16 to 30 ... and so on.
NghtFire
9./54 Grünherz
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NghtFire, I would simply auger on takeoff 50 times at the start of every tour to ensure that my K/D ratio stayed at or below 1 so I wouldn't have to deal with some sort of ridiculous graduated perk system. That way I could also fly personal favorites like the Tempest for substantially less than I pay for them now in perk points.
See the problem?
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Leave them as is, perk spit16.
Or just leave them all as is.
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heehee.....
I think Kweassa was just making the sneakiest "perk the Spit XVI" post evah.....
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I pereferred you previous perk agenda.
Bozon
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With a free Spit16, that actually decimated the usage level of the fastest non-perked deck speed fighter with good maneuverability and 3x 20mms... we've now officially got nothing to fear!!!!!!
Explain what you mean by "decimated". I notice that the La7 has more kills, deaths, and a slightly higher K/D than it did before.
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Perk the SpitXVI for sure...it has taken over the MA much like the CHOG did when it was free...Leave the other perk rides the same(except free up the TA152)
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While I agree that the spit16 is the current favorite ma ride ,I see no reason to perk it. True it has great roll and good speed but if falls easy prey to vertical maneuvers. The TA152 should never have been perked.I recently flew one to 30 k hopeing to fight a fight that is high alt,but everyone was in the weeds.F4U4's are great planes but when their outta E and wallowing they're in trouble from any number of a/c.Why dont we perk the zeke?It will outturn vertually every plane in the game,however you want to unperk them and that I can agree with whole heartily because there is no greater satisfaction that downing a late war plane with an inferior early war varient.P-40's are great for this roll,everyone sees one and says hey easy kill then then slow down and get axe murdered by one.Even if all planes were unperked you would still have an increased amount of one type or another of plane due to popularity.I prefer the 38J nowadays some prefer the 38G and others the 38L ,depends on flying style.I do hope however that HTC would not unperk the jets or if he did at least limit the bases of availabilty.All in all maybe it should just stay the way it is,once everyone realises that the spit16 while somewhat an uber plane is still very beatable.
VIC
(let the flogging begin):D
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Originally posted by VIC
While I agree that the spit16 is the current favorite ma ride ,I see no reason to perk it. True it has great roll and good speed but if falls easy prey to vertical maneuvers..
VIC
(let the flogging begin):D
i don't agree...It has perhaps the best verticle plane performance of any plane with it's leathal combination climb rate,roll rate and when u get those flaps out it turns like a spit5....get in trouble,dump flaps nose down and wep..if the plane on U is faster u can out-turn it(and/or out-climb it)...if u are faster u can breifly extend and rope him/her all again.
The plane has no faults except it carries no ord.
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Umm...The F4U-4 is a MONSTER. I'd love to see it unperked, I wouldnt fly anything else.
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I think Kweassa was just making the sneakiest "perk the Spit XVI" post evah.....
Naw, actually it was an attempt to make my own cult :D
I pereferred you previous perk agenda.
So did I! The previous agenda was aimed to not only balance out the usage between late war fighters, but also between mid-war and late-war planes, and between fighter-jabos and true ground-attack aircraft as well.
However, over the years it seems apparently clear that while people just don't tolerate any of their favorite aircraft being perked, they are somehow strangely lenient on their not-so-favorite late war planes remaining perked. So it seems a better strategy to rouse up and form a consensus to appeal to the fans of the few late-war rides that still remain perked, rather than ask a bunch of late war fighters to be universally perked.
Basically, there is nothing WORSE the MA will become by UTSTAFF.
There is only GOOD with UTSTAFF.
Spit14 can only split up the Spit16 usage. Ta152H is uninfluential and
uninspiring. Chog is an outdated Hog, and a 4Hog is nothing but what the blue navy plane fans deserve.
Everyone else now got their "ultimate" late-war rides. Even the Jug fans have got free P-47Ns. So why should only the "ultimates" of the RAF fans and USN fans remain perked, when there are so many unperked late-war planes that can counter it easily?
It's not as if I'm suggesting to unleash a super-heavy weight fighter to fight with feather or middle weights... there are already a lot of super heavy weights in the ring with no holds barred.
A few more can only mean more competition and variety, as none of the currently perked fighters are so dominant (Or at least, potentially more dominant/popular than the two fighters, Spit16 and La7. You think people will start giving up La-7s and Spit16s for Spit14s and F4U-4s?).
The previous suggestions was to handicap all the super heavy weights with the lighter weights... but since people don't want that, and super heavy weights are always gonna remain dominant no matter what... then why not just free all the super heavy weights and make it fair for all, while at it?
Simple logic, really.
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Umm...The F4U-4 is a MONSTER. I'd love to see it unperked, I wouldnt fly anything else.
That's because you're thinking like Grits, Grits.
Try thinking more like the horde of average MA pilots who get massacred by a handful of veterans everyday. Do you really think they'll give up their easy-mode Spit16s and La-7s for a F4U-4 which they haven't got a slightest clue on how to fly?
They can't go HO everything or start outrunning everything with a F4U-4 with 6x50cals, like they can do with La-7s with nose-mounted 3x20mms.
They can't go just go 'chase down, flat turn like mad, point-and-click Hizookas' in F4U-4s, like they can do in their Spit16s.
The only people who'd ever be interested in the F4U-4, is the Grits-ish veterans, and suicidal jabo tards who wants Typh-class deck speed plane with more ordnance.
All it can do, is please the veterans with a great new free bird, please the suicidal jabo tards with a beter jabo plane than the Typh, and not effect the La-7/Spit16 hordes in any kind of bad way.
It's a win-win scenario! I can't possibly lose!!! :D :D
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I'm still curious about that decimation.
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how do i turn one of these :aok upside down?
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I say just perk the jets....
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IIRC, former La-7 kills topped out around 12% max, usually averaging at 10% per every tour.
TimRas' Tour71 stats show a 9% kill, a slight drop, but more importantly, it is pushed down to second place. In the past, the Spitfires and the N1Ks shared a combined kill number of 15~20%, with the N1K doing about 7%, and the Spit5/Spit9 sharing the rest 9~13% at about 60:40. But now, the Spit16 became a SINGLE variant of the Spitfire with 10.85% of the total kills, the most used plane, and yet still with a positive K/D. The Spit9 and Spit5 are at an historical all time low.
In other words, all the "light-user" class Spit pilots are now crammed up with the Spit16, pushing it up as the most influential plane in the MA. Reasonable deck speed, twin Hizookas, a blend of turn/climb/roll into one, and a longer range than the La-7, ability to strap DTs... etc etc.
Would that not be a feat enough to consider as a 'decimation' against the La-7, who for so long, since its introduction in AHv1.05, held its place as the most overused and overwhined plane in the entire plane set?
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Originally posted by Kweassa
They can't go HO everything.... like they can do with La-7s with nose-mounted 3x20mms.
Instead of La-7s Hoing it will be people in F4U-Cs... I think that was one of the main reasons it was perked in the first place..
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Instead of La-7s Hoing it will be people in F4U-Cs... I think that was one of the main reasons it was perked in the first place..
Even if that were true, how would that be any different than all the jabo Typhs in a one-way ticket flight they call a 'mission', HOing everything in sight after dropped ord, we currently see in the MA?
We already have enough people in Typhs HOing everything they see. The only difference gonna make is, IF people for some reason choose the Chog over the wide roster of superior multi-purpose late-war suicidal jabo planes we currently have, they'll be flying a HOing quad-hizooka plane that's a lot slower and easier to catch, than the Typh or the La-7. HOs don't bother most skilled pilots anyway. The difference is, however, once they can be caught and shot down much more easily. That's not a bad thing for you, is it? ;)
Not to mention that I am severely unconvinced that the typical and numerous MA pilot, is gonna move to a plane that is 20mph slower at deck and much more difficult to handle just to get quad hizookas, and give up the two fastest non-perked fighter planes, one already witha quad-hizooka, and the other with a nosemounted triple 20mms.
Therefore, not only people won't be flocking to the Chog in the first place(times, and pilots, have changed, storch. Most of the MA folk don't know the Chog glory days like we do.), even if they do, they'll be a heckuva lot easier to catch than a Typh or a La-7.
Again, a Win-Win scenario whicherver way the dice rolls, IMO. :D
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The only thing unperking the Chog and F4U4 would do (IMO) would be to even up the planes in a land/sea battle. I don't think the C-Hog would get as much use from land bases as it used to (simply because the performance isn't that great). The -4 doesn't have cannon, so its use would probably stay fairly insignificant.
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So, if the overall situation, tactics, and plane variety won't change, why does it need to be modified? What's to be gained? How will this improve gameplay? There is always going to be a plane that gets more kills than the others. Why does it matter which plane that is?
Don't take this as a personal attack; I'm simply curious. You rarely even play. Why are you hellbent on changing the game, most especially when it comes to the planes you don't even fly?
Again, that's not meant as an attack, I've just noticed that several of the most vocal types don't even play the game. I wonder why they believe they have the "best ideas" for modifying gameplay they don't experience. Seems odd to me. Not inferring that you're one of the most vocal or critical posters, just that you have a lot of posts and suggestions for "improving" the perk system.
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Well if cannon have such a major influence on the MA, then let's perk all the cannon-armed rides and just make the planes with machine guns free. :p
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See no one will argue that the Spit16 is "uber" though as said above it is very beatable, I down them all the time in P-51's and Ki-84's. They do turn well, but there vertical performance isn't that great and there turn with those clipped wings seems very limited. I myself think the Spit14 is the better plane, I like the far more powerful engine and climb rate, it also feels like a far more stable aircraft and a great firing platform. I think the Spit16 should be perked, but only as much as a Spit14, same with the La7, maybe with the 7 perked the 5 will get more use, whenever I see La7's I just get an La5, that plane is an outstanding knifefighter! And for those spit lovers you still have the spit9, a great airplane in it's own right, I couldn't believe it when I was flying a 109F4 and the Spit9 was outturning me... I recall easly being able to outturn the 9's before the new patch, but the F4 has the better vertical performance.
Edward
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Originally posted by EdXCal
They do turn well, but there vertical performance isn't that great and there turn with those clipped wings seems very limited. I myself think the Spit14 is the better plane, I like the far more powerful engine and climb rate, it also feels like a far more stable aircraft and a great firing platform.
:huh
You kidding me? lolz.
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So, if the overall situation, tactics, and plane variety won't change, why does it need to be modified? What's to be gained? How will this improve gameplay? There is always going to be a plane that gets more kills than the others. Why does it matter which plane that is?
Simple.
1. Why does it need to be modified?
Because it gives us more free planes of comparable performance to fly for free.
2. What's to be gained?
Same gameply, but a slightly more variety in the choices.
3. How will this improve gameplay?
I'll bet the dedicated RAF fans and USN fans would thank me for better gameplay.
4. Why does it matter which plane that is?
It doesn't. All that matters is whether I can use this plane for free or not. If not, why? Does the perks have any purpose for the STAFF? Is the STAFF gonna overthrow arena balance when unperked? Are the STAFF gonna suddenly become more dominant than the ALREADY dominant La-7 and Spit16?
If not, why perk them in the first place? Why can't some people use those planes for free?
That's all that matters to me, at least for now.
Don't take this as a personal attack; I'm simply curious. You rarely even play. Why are you hellbent on changing the game, most especially when it comes to the planes you don't even fly?
Well I've been making a comeback recently, so I play.
Why am I hellbent on changing the game? Because since I can enjoy my favorite "ultimate" Luftwobble 109K-4s and Fw190Ds for free, I think it would be more fun if I can meet some more "ultimate" USN 4Hogs and RAF Spit14s as enemies, and not have their pilots fly timid and boring or worrying about perk prices, when none of the other pilots who fly planes on par performance, like the rest of us, have to worry about it.
Again, that's not meant as an attack, I've just noticed that several of the most vocal types don't even play the game. I wonder why they believe they have the "best ideas" for modifying gameplay they don't experience. Seems odd to me. Not inferring that you're one of the most vocal or critical posters, just that you have a lot of posts and suggestions for "improving" the perk system.
All the previous suggestions came when I was playing AH heavily.
This suggestion, actually, is merely a revival on what I've already sugested in the past. It's an attempt to arouse public opinion and to increase my power in the AH world, so the cult of UTSTAFF I've created gets zillion followers who chant my name and send me money so I can buy more beer and get more hookers.
The opportunity seemed right, since people have been showing signs of discontent with the Spit16s - so I thought I'd make a bit of ruckus to make people see my way.
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Originally posted by Urchin
The -4 doesn't have cannon, so its use would probably stay fairly insignificant.
Well, the 4th, 11th, and 12th planes on the list for last month only use .50s, so while cannon-armed planes generally dominate, they do not do so exclusively. The F4U-1D took the 12th spot, and I imagine that most of the F4U-1D pilots would switch to the -4 upon unperking. It would likely draw off some of the 51 and F6F fans as well. Thus in all likelihood the F4U-4 could end up solidly in the middle of the top 10 every tour, but it would do so at the expense of other .50-armed planes rather than absorbing players from other cannon-armed planes like the La7 or Spit XVI.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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If the C-Hog were unperked it'd see a lot of action. A lot. It is the Big Bad HO Beast simply because of all that freakin' ammo. And it'd be the pork plane of choice.
Ta152 ... sucks.
Spit14 ... with the 16 free, at least drop the cost of this plane.
F4U4 ... I test flew this offline and still don't see anything all that Uber about it. It's nice, and if it were less expensive I'd use it. But I agree that the 6 .50's will limit its appeal to the MA regulars.
My take on this is that perk system has far too few planes in the "nickel and dime" category. I think the Spit16, Spit14, F4U4, Ta152, P51D, and La7 should all cost 2 to 4 perks; the C-Hog should drop to around 8. If the Fw's ever gets fixed, the D9 also falls into the 2-4 perk category. Just about anyone can afford 2 or 3 or 4 perks. And worst case you "fall back" to an La5, F6F, Spit8, N1K ... like that's any kind of punishment.
Jets need to stay expensive.
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Im in agreement with this post. I say try it for 1-2 tours. Cant hurt. It might actually help promote better CV deffence with the then free, beter climbing -4.
Dok, The Ta152 sucks yet you want it to be perked?
As that thing is right now, HT would have to pay me perks just to take off in it.
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I'd perk the Ta152 for a few reasons:
1) It was very rare.
2) Some day it may get fixed and not suck.
3) Unperked it's main role would be as (yet another) pork-runner plane, and that adds nothing to the game.
4) If it's not perked, then that opens up a barrel of whine about "Why didn't you perk any LW planes?! There's a conspiracy!!"
But I agree, in its current form the Ta152 is really sucky in more ways than I feel like listing.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Rather then unperk anything
I'd rather see the 16 perked somewhere along the lines of the Tempests as they should be
LOL has to be a troll?
You realise the XVI is only a 1943 LF IX with 50 cals ('e' wing)?
Not even a Griffon spit like the XIV, yet your suggesting perking it higher that a XIV, in fact closer to a Tempest.
Guess if it had been a clipped wing 1943 LF IX, you'd still be wanting it perked?
SAME FRICKIN PLANE apart from the 50cals.
ONLY reason it didn't get the same Mk number as the IX was because the engine was manfactured in the U.S. (Merlin 266) and required different tooling (US stds vs UK stds).
In fact they could have brought it in as a LF IXe, but to differentiate for icons in-game it was given the XVI designation.
So to summarise LF IXe is EXACTLY the same as XVI, it's not some monster Griffon engined Spit despite the Mk number being higher than the XIV.
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I think the Spit16, Spit14, F4U4, Ta152, P51D, and La7 should all cost 2 to 4 perks; the C-Hog should drop to around 8. If the Fw's ever gets fixed, the D9 also falls into the 2-4 perk category
This would at least give perk points some meaning...
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I agree. perhaps the arena would benefit from all late war rides being perked. the 1944 rides under ten points, the 1945 rides more. the jet, rocket and tempest highly perked.
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Originally posted by VIC
While I agree that the spit16 is the current favorite ma ride ,I see no reason to perk it. True it has great roll and good speed but if falls easy prey to vertical maneuvers.
You cannt be serious. Spit16 one of the best plane for vertical fight (not best but one of them). The clue is plane itself dont make anybody ace.
Of course, its not "the plane without faults", but very very good and easy plane.
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Originally posted by storch
I agree. perhaps the arena would benefit from all late war rides being perked. the 1944 rides under ten points, the 1945 rides more. the jet, rocket and tempest highly perked.
You have one big problem with that -
Look at the US/LW planesets.
You'd be perking 60% of each of them.
RAF is OK we'd only lose the 1944 XVI, but in that case it should get 25lbs boost to make it a true 1944 Spit, currently it performs no better than a 1943 LF IX.
If that happened I'd be all for perking 1944 and later stuff. (Not so sure US/LW fans would be so ready to accept it though)
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The reason the -4 is such a monster is that the only flaws to the -1 series is poor climb and poor acceleration. The -4 accelerates in the top 5 and climbs in the top 5. The only down side to the -4 is it doesnt have cannons and its short range in internal fuel.
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Agreed with unperking the Spit14, ta152 and F4-U4. Leave the Chog poerked, but maybe not quite as costly.
Good post Kweassa - Why shouldnt the elite USN plane be free if the elite LA7 and Spit are free?
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Originally posted by storch
I agree. perhaps the arena would benefit from all late war rides being perked. the 1944 rides under ten points, the 1945 rides more. the jet, rocket and tempest highly perked.
OK Storch did a quick check of what that would do to the 3 major planesets, this is what your left with free -
US
P-38G/J
P-40B/E
P-47D-11
P-51B
F4F-4
F4U-1
LW
109E-4
109F-4
109G-2
109G-6
190A-5
UK
Hurri I/IIC/IID
Spit IA/V/VIII/IX
Seafire IIc
Typhoon IB
It decimates the US/LW rides, while removing only the XVI from the RAF, I'm all for it.
What is does show is the lopsided late war bias towards the US/LW rides.
What you gonna do when the MA becomes full of P-51B's, Tiffys and 190A-5's?
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The reason the -4 is such a monster is that the only flaws to the -1 series is poor climb and poor acceleration. The -4 accelerates in the top 5 and climbs in the top 5. The only down side to the -4 is it doesnt have cannons and its short range in internal fuel.
You're thinking in Grits again, Grits! :D
It's a monster for you. It's a monster for whoever knows how to fly F4Us.
But think about it - if the average MA folk were people who knew how wonderfully diverse the plane set is, how some planes can be cleverly maneuvered with flaps, how the climb/accel advantage can be used, and etc etc.. they wouldn't be flocking to the Spit16s or La-7s in the first place.
If they understood anything harder than;
* push E for engine, G for gear
* move stick, point direction and fire button
* nose down and run with the fastest planes or start turning with the turniest planes in the set
... then they'd be flying some other interesting planes. Only the real RAF fans who love Spits or real VVS fans who love Lavochkas and Yaks, would remain. And, only when something like that happens, will the arena suddenly be full of people who appreciate how planes like the 4hog, P-47s, 109s, 190s, and etc etc.. work in different ways to set up their fights - and suddenly the "super planes" like 4hogs would become a really dominant threat.
But that's somewhat akin to expecting shrimps to evolve into sentient lobster-men within next 50 years...
Again, if people understood some other reasons than fastest running away speed or easiest turning performance can also make planes 'monsters', then we wouldn't have a dominance/overuse problem with planes in the first place.
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Kweassa -
Part of you original post is flawed.
HT doesn't monitor sorites per plane, only kill/deaths. He has said he reckons its a good sign of plane usage.
If you look at the La7 over the last three tours its numbers are pretty consistant, therefore the XVI HASN'T decimated La7 usage what-so-ever.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
But that's somewhat akin to expecting shrimps to evolve into sentient lobster-men within next 50 years...
Drat. Another press leak.
Time to crank up another DOJ investigation.
- oldman
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Originally posted by Kev367th
OK Storch What you gonna do when the MA becomes full of P-51B's, Tiffys and 190A-5's?
Kev I could be way off base here as I often am but I suspect we would enjoy more fights. You would find me in a 109E through G2. let's not forget the awesome (due to it's ubermodelling in AH) 110C4. true that the runners will still be in La5s and tiffies but a P51B or single popgun G2 will catch the La5 under the right conditions. The Yaks would be monsters as well. The people who appreciate the japanese planes will find their principal historic rides much more competetive. The N1k2 would be a perk ride, that alone makes me smile. with these conditions I would argue for all late war rides to be represented including the 25# boosted spitfires. I would suggest that they be perked at the tempest/jet prices though. the point is that what the arena has evolved into in the last two years is not really very challenging or fun to me and apparently others. taxation would be a way to keep the people with the inclination to play as many wail bitterly claiming is ruining the game from having a vehicle to do so. have you read kweassa's wall of text? I agree with much of what he proposes. I believe it will improve overall game play especially after the plane set becomes more complete across the board.
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CHogs leave it Perked. Ta 152 you can un perk it, it has so many flaws in AH it's not a threat but unless of course someone competent is flying it. F4U-4 is another uber perk monster, Tempest same Hizookas and uber accel .
BTW The 190 D doesn't perform as well as it did in AH, once you reach 300mph it stays there and it takes on average 7 to 10 minutes to accel to 375,almost every plane in the MA can run it down now, It's no threat to the allied rides like it was in AH1,esp. with a P-47N around the MA.
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I never said to perk all the 1944 planes. But there are some obvious choices of planes which have some level of uberness to them. Some of these are now perked, some aren't.
I think having the Spit16 and Spit14 both cost a 3-5 perks gives people a nice choice and gives the RAF better representation in the MA. The Tempest should still cost a bunch - it's way, way uber. The fall backs are the Spit8, Spit9 - which don't exactly suck in the MA.
I think adding a couple perks to the P51D and dropping the F4U-4 down to under 5 perks is a good trade-off. It gives the USN a good late war plane and also reduces the tendency to use the P51D as a suicide Jabo. The F4U-1C should still cost between 5 and 10 because of the huge ammo load and the ease of HO kills with it. The fallback rides for the US - F6F, F4U-1D, P38's - aren't bad at all.
Bumping the La7 to 2 or 3 perks may get VVS fans looking at the La5 more, which is actually a better handling and more dangerous machine. But I'd say half the La7's I see do nothing but shoot barracks and vultch runways.
For the LW, about the only ride worth perking (not counting the Ta152) is the D9. I'd say charge 2 perks for it now, and 4 when HT gets the FM and the 20mm's fixed. Only real problem is that the A5 and A8 are not competetive so LW fans kind of get the shaft (again) until the Fw series can get worked on.
For the IJA, it's obvious ... the N1K should cost a couple perks. Why perk a plane that ain't very fast? Well it turns great and has buckets of 20mm ammo. So the Ki84 would get more use, and it's quite good in the MA.
Of course, perking The Big Three will set off such a huge torrent of whining that I doubt HT will do it. Which leaves on the option of reducing the cost of the Spit14 and F4U4.
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Anyone who thinks the F4U-4 should cost less than the F4U-1C is delusional.
The -4 is a monster, one of the best piston engined fighters in the game, while the -1C is a pig that happens to have good guns.
I am with grits, if the -4 was free, it is the only plane I would fly.
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I really don't like the direction AH is moving. My only hope is that TOD or another MA will save it.
What people cry for and get, is more and more. Later, faster, bigger guns and we end up with MA common planeset representing the last weeks of WWII. BLAH! :(
We have 1939 planes with max speed close to the stall speed of 1945 planes.
We have 2/3 of the planeset competative in the Hangar Queen pageant.
We have perk points and nothing to spend them on.
We have ENY values that apart from blobking usage on a severe population imbalance are meaninngless (see perks).
Is it time to create a second areana? where the Mosquito is actually a fast ride, bombers are more effective than JABOs at destroying stuff, 190s are formidable fighters, C202 can duke it out with spit V and P40s are not laughed at. Maybe even the stuka will see some use when its carring capacity is appreciated.
And no, this is not the CT which is too limiting for too many people.
Bozon
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Originally posted by bozon
I really don't like the direction AH is moving. My only hope is that TOD or another MA will save it.
What people cry for and get, is more and more. Later, faster, bigger guns and we end up with MA common planeset representing the last weeks of WWII. BLAH! :(
We have 1939 planes with max speed close to the stall speed of 1945 planes.
We have 2/3 of the planeset competative in the Hangar Queen pageant.
We have perk points and nothing to spend them on.
We have ENY values that apart from blobking usage on a severe population imbalance are meaninngless (see perks).
Is it time to create a second areana? where the Mosquito is actually a fast ride, bombers are more effective than JABOs at destroying stuff, 190s are formidable fighters, C202 can duke it out with spit V and P40s are not laughed at. Maybe even the stuka will see some use when its carring capacity is appreciated.
And no, this is not the CT which is too limiting for too many people.
Bozon
this post pretty much nails it for me.
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You know,(I can't beleive I am going to say this) the more and more I think about things in the MA, the more I think perking all of the late war monsters might not be such a bad idea. Things have gotten very stagnant. Many people dont know how fun it can be to fly a 109E or F, or a P40 E or B. There are far too many planes in the hanger that don't get used because the alternatives, (the P51, spit16, tiffy, Nik, 109D just to name a few) are far more apealing. Perking them wouldnt restrict the use of the late war planes, rather I think it would encourage the use of many of the early war planes that see very little usage. This should hold true for bombers as well... How many missions of Ju87's do you see? When you compare that to the number of heavy P51 missions?
Variety shouldnt be forced, but it can be encouraged. And IMO what the MA is lacking most is just that, variety. Perking some of the most heavily used planes would IMO encourage more variety in planes flown in the MA.
Just how they should be perked is another story... Maybe perk the 51D half as much as the Chog... Say 4 perks... Same for the Tiffy, and then 2 perks for the Spit16... ect ect... But I do think its worth looking in to.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
I never said to perk all the 1944 planes. But there are some obvious choices of planes which have some level of uberness to them. Some of these are now perked, some aren't.
I think having the Spit16 and Spit14 both cost a 3-5 perks gives people a nice choice and gives the RAF better representation in the MA. The Tempest should still cost a bunch - it's way, way uber. The fall backs are the Spit8, Spit9 - which don't exactly suck in the MA.
I think adding a couple perks to the P51D and dropping the F4U-4 down to under 5 perks is a good trade-off. It gives the USN a good late war plane and also reduces the tendency to use the P51D as a suicide Jabo. The F4U-1C should still cost between 5 and 10 because of the huge ammo load and the ease of HO kills with it. The fallback rides for the US - F6F, F4U-1D, P38's - aren't bad at all.
Bumping the La7 to 2 or 3 perks may get VVS fans looking at the La5 more, which is actually a better handling and more dangerous machine. But I'd say half the La7's I see do nothing but shoot barracks and vultch runways.
For the LW, about the only ride worth perking (not counting the Ta152) is the D9. I'd say charge 2 perks for it now, and 4 when HT gets the FM and the 20mm's fixed. Only real problem is that the A5 and A8 are not competetive so LW fans kind of get the shaft (again) until the Fw series can get worked on.
For the IJA, it's obvious ... the N1K should cost a couple perks. Why perk a plane that ain't very fast? Well it turns great and has buckets of 20mm ammo. So the Ki84 would get more use, and it's quite good in the MA.
Of course, perking The Big Three will set off such a huge torrent of whining that I doubt HT will do it. Which leaves on the option of reducing the cost of the Spit14 and F4U4.
Why the XVI?
This would mean the only free ANYTHING RAF would be 1943 (VIII and Tiffy) and earlier.
Or are we not allowed any 1944 or later FREE planes like every other major planeset would still have?
You want a better RAF representation in the MA, sounds more like an inferior (performance wise) representation to me.
Or remove the 50cals from the XVI give it .303's and rename it as an 1943 LF IX. But oh, I guess you'd want that perked also.
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Originally posted by bozon
Is it time to create a second areana? where the Mosquito is actually a fast ride, bombers are more effective than JABOs at destroying stuff, 190s are formidable fighters, C202 can duke it out with spit V and P40s are not laughed at. Maybe even the stuka will see some use when its carring capacity is appreciated.
And no, this is not the CT which is too limiting for too many people.
Don't know why you think the CT is too limiting for too many people. We're running the Tunisia 42/43 setup right now (stop by!). Our sense has been that the "limitation" of the CT is that most people don't really want to fly the pre-1945 planes.
- oldman
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Daaaaaaaaaammmmmmmmmmmmmmit I hate to agree with Kweassas
perk everything late war idea. :cry
But perking all the late war Rides Kev, you wouldnt have to worry about thing's being unfair for the brit planes... A P40E is comparable to a Spit5 now, and so is the 109F4.... If you wanted more of a challenge you could take the Spit1, or the P40B, or the 109E.
And MA FILLED with variety... Those that want to spend a few perks to dominate can do so...
When I think of how much fun it would be if the MA werent filled to the brim with Spit16s, La7's, Tiffys, 51s, Niks.... I want to log in and go flying. When I think of the MA now, I think of La7s, spit16s, Niks, 51s, 190D9s, Tiffys.... All fast late war monsters... How many people log in and choose the best, fastest, most powerful FREE plane in the set? I think its safe to say the vast majority.
A perfect example is when the MA goes down and players migrate to the Backup MA. Where everything is free... What you have in there at that point is a massive glob of red and green all in Tempests and 262s running back and forth vulching at the speed of light. Everything is free, yet, they naturally choose the best, fastest, strongest planes in the set... Human nature really.
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Morph I totally agree.
The ONLY free plane the RAF would lose is the XVI.
But the US/LW loses 60% of their planesets if 1944 onwards are perked, due to the heavy bias towards late war US/LW rides.
Like I said I'm all for it, but I can guess most US/LW fans wouldn't feel the same way.
In fact the the Spit VIII would be dream in that scenario :) , and it wouldn't be long before the 'perk the Spit VIII' whines started.
Think about it - take the XVI, add normal tips, change 50cals for 303's, add retractible tailwheel and wing tanks...viola you've got an VIII. Everything else is identical (most importantly, same motor).
In fact theres no reason you couldn't have a clipped VIII, most people don't realise how close the XVI and VIII really are.
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Unperk the 152, Perk the Spit 16...
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Originally posted by MINNOW
Unperk the 152, Perk the Spit 16...
Makes you wonder what would happen if the RAF actually got a FREE Spit at 1944 performance levels, or god forbid a FREE 1945 Spit.
i.e. LF IX @ 25lbs (May 44), F XIV @ 21lbs (July 44), LF XVI @ 25lbs (Dec 1944/Jan 45), F.21 (Mar 1945)
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Originally posted by Morpheus
You know,(I can't beleive I am going to say this) the more and more I think about things in the MA, the more I think perking all of the late war monsters might not be such a bad idea. Things have gotten very stagnant. Many people dont know how fun it can be to fly a 109E or F, or a P40 E or B. There are far too many planes in the hanger that don't get used because the alternatives, (the P51, spit16, tiffy, Nik, 109D just to name a few) are far more apealing. Perking them wouldnt restrict the use of the late war planes, rather I think it would encourage the use of many of the early war planes that see very little usage. This should hold true for bombers as well... How many missions of Ju87's do you see? When you compare that to the number of heavy P51 missions?
Variety shouldnt be forced, but it can be encouraged. And IMO what the MA is lacking most is just that, variety. Perking some of the most heavily used planes would IMO encourage more variety in planes flown in the MA.
Just how they should be perked is another story... Maybe perk the 51D half as much as the Chog... Say 4 perks... Same for the Tiffy, and then 2 perks for the Spit16... ect ect... But I do think its worth looking in to.
With ya all da way Morphy!..
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Where is that dead horse when you need to beat one?
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I guess i dont actually understand the Perk system.
Its like evertime a particular AC get used heavly in the game..someone screams for the PERK GOD to punish the sins of the ppl. :D
Is there some threat to the AH2 drinking water? Maybe the Spit XVI causes cancer?
Dont get me wrong. I think the Spit XVI rocks! Its a FUN ride indeed.
But the Spit XVI can be killed, ran down and avoided easily in the MA invironment. What the heck is all the comotion about?
I dont fear the SpitXVI like i do some of the other MA planes...like the P38 (In the hands of a good 38 pilot), Yak9U, Tempest, spit5, P51. I am prolly less than an average fighter pilot and i still have a K/D on of the Spit XVI of 2.0 Was killed by it 7 times...and killed it 14 times in the tour.
Perk it..dont Perk it..who realy cares? As far as the MA goes...its just another target.
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There are some really good points in here, and some points of view I hadn't really considered. However, other than making some of the 'vets' happy, I'm still not sure what it would do for gameplay. The people most likely to benefit from uber late war planes that are currently perked, are people who likely have massive amounts of perks banked. A free uber plane for the average MA target will not make them fly any differently. They'll act exactly as they do now, except in a faster plane. I have enough trouble taking on the standard mixture of La7s, N1Ks, 16s, and cherry picking ponies. Having to do the same thing, except dodging Tempests, -4s, 152s, jets, ICBMs etc would pretty much suck.
On the other hand, while I personally might enjoy an arena in which late war planes tend to be perked, many might not (read that, the slackjawed masses will whine until we're all deaf). The problem with a majority of planes being perked, is that it takes all of the newbs currently flying La7s, 16s, and N1Ks (whom I'll readily admit I'm culling with a HOicane to increase my own supply of perks), and sticks them in early/mid war planes, and forces them to compete against the seasoned players in superior rides. Such a setup would undoubtedly run off many of HTC's prospective clients, and HTC obviously likes having customers. I think.
Anyway, it's an interesting idea, but one that obviously isn't a concern of HTC's. We can do our own little bit to turn the tide in the game, without needing HT's tacit approval. The next time you see a newb type on country channel, "What's a good plane for a noob?", immediately blurt out your favorite early war target, and discredit anyone who suggests any plane introduced after 1942.
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You're pretty far off base on why planes should be perked Mugz, and again, you're probably trolling partly here so I'm partial to just not answer at all. But what the hell.
Its not to punish people... Its to encourage some flavor in the MA. When you guys run missions... What do you take 9 times out of 10? The biggest baddest plane in the set that's free. When you wing up, if you wing up, what do you take 9 times out of 10? The biggest baddest free plane in the set. No i'm not saying only you do this... I am saying in general, people like to win, and taking the biggest, baddest plane that's free is going to increase someones chances of winning. Its a dam shame that there are so many other planes in the game that hardly get used... Not becuase people dont know how to fly them, but because to take a P40E out in a world that is filled to the max with La7s, P51s, now spit16s, 190D9s, ad tiffys, just to name a few, is asking to be put back in the tower that much sooner.
I guess I'm just tired of the same old lame old furball's/fights filled with late war monsters. I might be just the only one who is growing tired of it... Who knows. Remember, not too far back I too wanted everything to be unperked except for the Tempest and the 262...
Yes this is a dead horse that's been kicked over a thousand times. But maybe its time to try something different. Chog was perked because of its use... Among other reasons. To encourage people to fly something different...
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Originally posted by Oldman731
Don't know why you think the CT is too limiting for too many people. We're running the Tunisia 42/43 setup right now (stop by!). Our sense has been that the "limitation" of the CT is that most people don't really want to fly the pre-1945 planes.
- oldman
EXACTLY!!!very good conclusion oldman. :aok
Players have their favorite rides. For what ever reason. Maybe their Grandfather flew an F4U in the pacific?..maybe the likey the lines of a pony? Or perhapes they find the stall characteristics of a certian AC suits their style of flying. Or they just loved the Sound of a Spitfire engine. What ever the reasons...and im certian they are many. The player wants to just have (yall said it yourselves MANY TIMES)..........."FUN" The ENY sanction was nearly enough to send me off from AH2. (It has not succeded in "Side Balancing" nor has it stoped the Vulching or Hoarding.)
Keep taking players favorite rides in the MA..and watch them find another pass time. With the ENY sanction system, players simply switch sides to fly what they want. Perk all late war rides and that option will be gone as well.
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Anyone ever thought the problem lies in the maps themselves?
Not one is what would be considered a 'high alt' map, remember Pizza?
On a high alt map the XVI would see lots less use in favour of the IX or XIV.
Although the thought of dogfighting XVI's in Pizzas canyons makes me drool.
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I dont actually know why they pulled Pizza? It was resetable..its was "FUN" and it was "FUN" Was it like way buggy?
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Why the XVI?
This would mean the only free ANYTHING RAF would be 1943 (VIII and Tiffy) and earlier.
I dont know why you always bring up the date of the Spits, its irrelevant Kev. The only thing to consider in the perk/unperk calculation is its relative performance and hence its useage rate in the MA. If the LW had ignored Hitler and pressed on with the 262 and got it into service the year and a bit earlier they could have, it would still be perked. The date of the planes use means nothing.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Why the XVI?
This would mean the only free ANYTHING RAF would be 1943 (VIII and Tiffy) and earlier.
Or are we not allowed any 1944 or later FREE planes like every other major planeset would still have?
You want a better RAF representation in the MA, sounds more like an inferior (performance wise) representation to me.
Or remove the 50cals from the XVI give it .303's and rename it as an 1943 LF IX. But oh, I guess you'd want that perked also.
Kev, honestly, I don't care about the nationalities of the planes that much. The 190D9 is pretty much the only decent LW ride and I suggested perking that too. I wish you wouldn't get defensive and make these kinds of assumptions. I think you (or someone) mentioned adding the Hurri IIB ... I'd love to see that too. My mantra for almost twenty years has been: "More Planes, Less Warps."
I ... or, rather, WE ... have no control over which planes HT has decided to model. We have what we have. I'd rather see the Spit16, P51, La7, etc. cost only 1 or 2 or 3 perks AND have the Spit14 and F4U4 cost only 4 or 5 perks than see the Spit16 and La7 cost like a C-Hog does now. Woudln't you?
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Originally posted by Morpheus
...
Variety shouldnt be forced, but it can be encouraged. And IMO what the MA is lacking most is just that, variety. Perking some of the most heavily used planes would IMO encourage more variety in planes flown in the MA.
...
I wish there was a way to do this that didn't require a penalty (perks cost). The perk bonus for the early war planes simply means that people cart them out when they have 73:1 odds at some field they're vultching - then suddenly you see P40's and C202's appear.
Maybe the perk earning potential could be adjusted instead so that if you're in a La7 you need a 20-kill streak to earn 1 perkie. Hehehe. Maybe that'd change a few habits.
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I know a lot of you guys land multiple kills. You have perks by the bazillion. I don't know how many are like me but I suspect a few.
The most kills I have ever gotten in a single sortie is 3. I didn't land them. Last night I flew a Spit VIII. I killed and landed two aircraft on two seperate sorties. If memory serves one was a 109F4 and one was a A6m5. I got something like .2 perkies for each aircraft.
I don't accumulate them very fast. I currently have 400 and something. 300 of which was the HTC present.
I know, and have been told, to basically take a crappy i.e. obsolete, aircraft, and I could get lots a perkies. Thats nice. It's not going to happen. I want to at least have a decent chance of blowing somebody out of the skies.
The very few times I have taken a perk aircraft I may as well spent them at the Crash 'N Burn Cafe on some rot gut.
I guess what I'm getting at is that guys like myself wouldn't have perks to spend for very long if late war aircraft were perked. At which point we would be restricted to early/midwar/obsolete aircraft while all you guys would be flying late war birds clubbing the crap out of the less skilled players. Doesn't sound like a fun time. I get clubbed enough now. :D
Just throwing something out from another perspective.
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A lot of those good players already use the "lesser" mid-war planes.
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So my JU-87 with 37mm will NOT be perked ???
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Lye-El- grab a Hurricane IIC. Good perk earner, and not a bad aircraft at all, assuming you drop any notion of BnZing at a screaming 280mph.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
Lye-El- grab a Hurricane IIC. Good perk earner, and not a bad aircraft at all, assuming you drop any notion of BnZing at a screaming 280mph.
As an aside, this illustrates the problem, or potential for one, with the less-skilled being in the early war planes in short order. They may not be deadmeat, but they'll certainly keep that in the backs of their heads, and we may wind up with a large percentage of people flying more timidly, or in larger packs, than we have now.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
LOL has to be a troll?
You realise the XVI is only a 1943 LF IX with 50 cals ('e' wing)?
Not even a Griffon spit like the XIV, yet your suggesting perking it higher that a XIV, in fact closer to a Tempest.
Guess if it had been a clipped wing 1943 LF IX, you'd still be wanting it perked?
SAME FRICKIN PLANE apart from the 50cals.
ONLY reason it didn't get the same Mk number as the IX was because the engine was manfactured in the U.S. (Merlin 266) and required different tooling (US stds vs UK stds).
In fact they could have brought it in as a LF IXe, but to differentiate for icons in-game it was given the XVI designation.
So to summarise LF IXe is EXACTLY the same as XVI, it's not some monster Griffon engined Spit despite the Mk number being higher than the XIV.
No its not a troll.
Honestly I'd rather fight against a tempest then a 16.
The 16 is IMO the plane with training wheels for its training wheels.
Its not a troll.
Just how I honestly feel about it.
Reguardless I still think it needs to be perked
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Originally posted by Grits
I dont know why you always bring up the date of the Spits, its irrelevant Kev. The only thing to consider in the perk/unperk calculation is its relative performance and hence its useage rate in the MA. If the LW had ignored Hitler and pressed on with the 262 and got it into service the year and a bit earlier they could have, it would still be perked. The date of the planes use means nothing.
Comparing any other aircraft in-game to a 262 is assenine.
Dates - Well considering this whole perk whine is for what is basically a 1943 performing Spit LF IX, it's ridiculous.
Dates - Also easy to say when both the LW and US planeset has 60% of it's planes in the 1944/45 era.
Dates - I wonder if the Spit 1 suddenly saw as much usage people would be crying for it to be perked,,, I DOUBT IT. You'd all be laughing at how many kills you were getting.
How about -
1) Unperk the XIV
2) Add the Spit XII
3) Add the 'old' V back as an clipped LF Vc (at 16lbs)
4) Add the F.21 (perked) as the ultimate wartime Spit.
Would definately see a decrease in XVI's then, WITHOUT having to perk it.
Diversity will fix the problem, all you'll do by perking the XVI is force people to the VIII.
(Waiting for the 'not more Spits' whines)
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Originally posted by storch
I agree. perhaps the arena would benefit from all late war rides being perked. the 1944 rides under ten points, the 1945 rides more. the jet, rocket and tempest highly perked.
I made a suggestion a while back I still like
Have the planes perked in teirs.
Early planes 1939-41 free
Midwar planes 1942-43 moderatly perked (2-10 perks)
Latewar planes. 1944-45 More heavily perked (11-50 perks)
Jets. VERY Heavy perks (100+ perks)
Another thing I'd like to see is the to have the ability of sharing your perk points with your squadmates. But ONLY among squadmates.
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Originally posted by bozon
I really don't like the direction AH is moving. My only hope is that TOD or another MA will save it.
What people cry for and get, is more and more. Later, faster, bigger guns and we end up with MA common planeset representing the last weeks of WWII. BLAH! :(
We have 1939 planes with max speed close to the stall speed of 1945 planes.
We have 2/3 of the planeset competative in the Hangar Queen pageant.
We have perk points and nothing to spend them on.
We have ENY values that apart from blobking usage on a severe population imbalance are meaninngless (see perks).
Is it time to create a second areana? where the Mosquito is actually a fast ride, bombers are more effective than JABOs at destroying stuff, 190s are formidable fighters, C202 can duke it out with spit V and P40s are not laughed at. Maybe even the stuka will see some use when its carring capacity is appreciated.
And no, this is not the CT which is too limiting for too many people.
Bozon
im all for this
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Comparing any other aircraft in-game to a 262 is assenine.
So is your argument that the Spit XVI should not even be considered for a perk because its essentially a '43 performing plane. If you were not so blind in your jihad you would see that my example is merely taking your operational date arguement to its logical conclusion. The Spit XVI will or will not be perked because of its usage/performance not because of what date the RAF used it, just as a 262 regardless of how early the LW might have gotten it operational would still be perked.
Dates - Well considering this whole perk whine is for what is basically a 1943 performing Spit LF IX, it's ridiculous.[/b]
The performance of the XVI is what it is, date of operation is irrelevant. Planes are not perked based on date.
Dates - Also easy to say when both the LW and US planeset has 60% of it's planes in the 1944/45 era.[/b]
Unlike you I dont have an agenda, even though I am an American, I could not care less what country a plane comes from, I like them all including the Spits.
How about -
1) Unperk the XIV
2) Add the Spit XII
3) Add the 'old' V back as an clipped LF Vc (at 16lbs)
4) Add the F.21 (perked) as the ultimate wartime Spit.
Would definately see a decrease in XVI's then, WITHOUT having to perk it.
Diversity will fix the problem, all you'll do by perking the XVI is force people to the VIII.
(Waiting for the 'not more Spits' whines) [/B]
I dont want the XVI perked, as you know I have said unperk everything but the Temp, 262 and 163. I am merely pointing out that you need to find a better argument that "its a '43 performing plane". And no, I dont think we need more Spits.
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Originally posted by bozon
I really don't like the direction AH is moving. My only hope is that TOD or another MA will save it.
Honestly. I've been kinda thinking the same thing as of late.
The way things have been going the fun factor has definately been starting to dwindle for me. And for a variety of reasons within the game. I've for the first time in 10 years of online gameplay considered quitting on numerous occasions.
And if you spoke to anyone that knows me RL they would tell you that me, and the word "quit" or "give up", Just dont go together, on anything.
I hang in there because I truely do love and care for and about the game.
But it is getting ever more frustrating the direction it seems to be heading
I'd like to think or hope TOD will make a difference but I cant honestly say I have any real confidance in it.
The way LW planes are headed with IMO performance either dwindleing or its the allied planes seemingly more souped up these days makeing the LW planes performance seem like its dwindling and the inability to see well enough out of them. How many are going to be willing to play on the axis side?
I only see it going the same way Axis vrs Allies went in Airwarrior with the allies having the vast majority of the players and their vastly better rides from fighters to bombers and the axis having mediocre planeset.
IT only works from a game perspective if there is balance. I just dont see how, with the way the planes are going now they are going to acheive that.
I hate to be the pessimist. but thats just the way I see it
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Grits - OK then show me a category where it outperforms EVERY other plane in the planeset?
Certainly NOT -
The fastest (is it even in top ten? just over 400mph @ 22k, I can think of at least 8 free ones that are faster)
The best turner (prob not in top ten?)
The best roller (prob in top 5)
The best climber (prob in top 5)
The best armed (any twin Hispano better)
Planes are not perked on date - Find me one other that is not a 1944/45 performing bird that is perked?
Later war, later date = better performance, of course most are perked on performance and hence by date.
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I think the Ta 152 should remain a perk,once they give it a reason for it to remain perked, if it's not going to be fixed and HTC feels the laughing stock of a perfofmance it has is enough, then I think it should be freed up and made into a non Perk. Despite the fact it wasn't as numerous,since even the N1K2 had almost about the same number made and it's an unperked ride .
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Originally posted by Kev367th
.
Although the thought of dogfighting XVI's in Pizzas canyons makes me drool.
I alwasy liked pizza cause if offered a variety of options. from good desperate GV fights over the GV bases to furballing
The only few things I woujld have changed about it are.
Its color. becuase that seemed to bother alot of people
The way countries were laid out. Should have been one country for each slice of the pie instead of the country on the bottom getting the giant (in my then 6 year old daughters discription) "noodle".
And last but not least there shoulda been some airfeilds in those deep canyons.
Always had a blast dogfighting in them
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You mean that the N1K seen about the same combat service as 60-70 Ta-152's?
I always thought there were way more N1K's saw combat service. I know about 428 N1K2's were made.
[edit] Just found this -
“Between October 1944 and February 1945 when production ended, Focke-Wulf managed to roll 67 completed Ta 152 aircraft (H-0, H-1, and C-1 models) off the line but these fighters put on a disappointing show. Some aircraft were lost to engine fires while a variety of other engine problems and spares shortages grounded most of the fleet. By April 30, 1945, only two Ta 152C-1s remained operational. The Luftwaffe had grounded all H-models--an ignominious end for combat aircraft with great potential.”
So basically your comparison to the N1K2 is not valid, on production alone the Ta-152 is 6-7 times rarer.
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LOL...Kev, I dont want the XVI perked, I'm just saying its date of operation is irrelevant.
Originally posted by Kev367th
Grits - OK then show me a category where it outperforms EVERY other plane in the planeset?
Certainly NOT -
The fastest (in top ten? just over 400mph @ 22k, I can think of at least 8 free ones that are faster)
The best turner (in top ten?)
The best roller (prob in top 5)
The best climber (prob in top 5)
The best armed (any twin Hispano better)
Playing Devil's Advocate since I dont want the XVI perked, let me point out a few thing in your list that make it look like just as good an argument for perking it as not too:
1. Speed, top 10
2. Roll, top 5
3. Turning top 10 (I'd say closer to top 5)
4. Climb, top 5
5 Armed, Hispanos and .50 cals
My question to you is, what other plane is in the top 5-10 in all those areas and is not perked?
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Originally posted by Grits
LOL...Kev, I dont want the XVI perked, I'm just saying its date of operation is irrelevant.
Playing Devil's Advocate since I dont want the XVI perked, let me point out a few thing in your list that make it look like just as good an argument for perking it as not too:
1. Speed, top 10
2. Roll, top 5
3. Turning top 10 (I'd say closer to top 5)
4. Climb, top 5
5 Armed, Hispanos and .50 cals
My question to you is, what other plane is in the top 5-10 in all those areas and is not perked?
Okey dokey
1) Speed not in any particular order - Tiffy, Pony B, Pony D, P47N, 190D9, 109G14, La7, Spit IX, Spit VIII + more I can't off the top of my head think of. Top 10 MAYBE, but I don't think so.
2) Roll - Agreed
3) Turn - Not even in the top 10
4) Climb - Agreed
5) Armed - hispanos, yup good, many swear by their rides 50cals only.
OK it does all of them well, but hardly dominates in any single category or for that matter two or more categories. I would even say it's not even number 1 or 2 in any category.
People fly it because it's ideally suited for the MA's low alt fights, if they were above 25k you'd never see it, it would be Spit IX and if free XIV.
but then you get into would you perk the K4 and P47N in that scenario?
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To continue my Devils Advocate role...
Originally posted by Kev367th
Okey dokey
1) Speed not in any particular order - Tiffy, Pony B, Pony D, P47N, 190D9, 109G14, La7 + more I can't off the top of my head think off. Top 10 MAYBE, but I don't think so.
All of which it absolutely dominates in turn, most in climb, and most in roll.
2) Roll - Agreed
3) Turn - Not even in the top 10[/b]
I count 5 better:
Hurri I
Hurri IIC (IID is not a legitimate air to air plane)
Spit I
Zeke 2
Zeke 5
I would rate it tied with the Spit IX and Ki-84. I might have missed some, but what would you list that I didnt?
4) Climb - Agreed
5) Armed - hispanos, yup good, many swear by their rides 50cals only.
OK it does all of them well, but hardly dominates in any single category or for that matter two or more categories. I would even say it's not even number 1 or 2 in any category.[/B]
No other plane can boast the overall performance of the XVI, while it dominates no one catagory, its clearly the best overall.
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Kev.... how does the performance stack up relative to what else is flying?
I know the Spit 16 is about (read roughly) equal with the Ki-84 in a slow speed stall fight, in my experience. That puts it in the Top 5 of "common" planes (as in the 1940 planes can probably "out turn" it, but nobody flies them so I'm not counting them)... and I'd rate the Ki-84 as #1 in a sustained slow speed fight.
Top speed? How fast is it on the deck, that is all that really matters. I'm sure it is ~340+, which is good enough for the MA.
Roll? Not really that important, honestly. A decent pilot can negate a "roll advantage" unless it is on the order of a 6-7 second advantage in a 360 roll.
Climb (= Acceleration)... I've heard this guy is good. I don't have a bunch of experience in it (flew it a couple times in a H2H room), but from what I saw, and from what I've heard this rates up in the top tier for acceleration.
Guns? Well, once you get a Hizooka, more are kinda like overkill. It may not have the "best" firepower... but it has more than enough to kill without any problem at all with two Hispanos.
Now, does that mean anything? No, not really. For my money, the La-7 is as good as a Tempest as a fighter, but the La-7 has been free since it was introduced. So, HTC probably doesn't really care what I think about the planes, and they certainly don't use my opinions as a basis of perking planes.
I don't know if HTC will perk the Spit 16 or not, but I rather doubt it. It is a popular plane, and having a fastish Spit can't hurt the popularity of the game, since the Spit is one of the most famous planes of the war.
I also doubt that HTC will unperk what is perked currently, or follow the equally radical course of perking new planes that are free right now. I think basically the rationale for that is "Why fix what ain't broke?". HT has said in the past that they expect players to get burnt out and quit after a year (or maybe it was 2, I'm not sure). Most of the people who post on this board have been playing for longer than that. Granted, most of the people who post on this board have more "enthusiasm" for the game than the average player, but that extra enthusiasm can only keep you interested for so long. The CT has been around as an alternative for the "1945 arena" for years, and it has been deserted for years. Why? It has already been stated... people WANT to fly their 1945 planes. If they don't get to use the 1945 planes, don't play in that sandbox. HTC has to make the game fun for the lowest common denominator. 1945 planes make the game fun for them.
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Thanks for bringing up perks again, Kweassa. It should be something that is constantly reviewed because 'something' just feels wrong about it. I don't know how else to describe it.
I agree with Morph and like this idea of perking based on time period. Hitech created the 'rolling plane set' idea, so I assume he's willing to consider any option that improves his product.
What about a perk value calculation based on time frame and also actual usage/availability of the aircraft during that time frame, instead of analyzing the flight and armament characteristics of each model.
The time frame (A, B, C) boundries don't need to be calendar year, either.
For example:
All A Frame planes are free.
All B Frame planes are perked 1-10 based on usage/historical availability.
All C Frame planes are perked 11-X based on usage/historical availability.
All C Frame planes are perked X+ based on usage/historical availability.
Would that be a reasonable historical and gameplay solution?
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Originally posted by Grits
To continue my Devils Advocate role...
All of which it absolutely dominates in turn, most in climb, and most in roll.
I count 5 better:
Hurri I
Hurri IIC (IID is not a legitimate air to air plane)
Spit I
Zeke 2
Zeke 5
I would rate it tied with the Spit IX and Ki-84. I might have missed some, but what would you list that I didnt?
No other plane can boast the overall performance of the XVI, while it dominates no one catagory, its clearly the best overall.
Would list -
Spit V
Hurri IID - Maybe not legit air to air but look at its stats, it's used air to air.
Seafire
Probably a couple more floating out there.
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Nope, Badboy posted EM charts on them, Spit VIII sustained turn rate is marginally better than the V and the XVI is marginally better than the VIII. The only Spit that out turns the XVI is the I. Since the Seafire is a heavier V it wont turn better than the XVI either.
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So all the folks responding in here fly 1943 or before rides?
Are you out there taking on the masses of Spit 16s and LA7s in those early birds?
Are they ruining your fun?
I fly the 38G if I've got time to head out to the other guys turf and the Spit IX if I need to get up quick to defend a base. I sure don't mind what the other guy flies. I figure it makes me better to learn to deal with those late war rides in my early war bird.
It still comes down to a choice we all make. What do WE want to fly.
If the mob is flying it, I don't. I don't buy into the "I fly em so I can compete with the horde" mentality.
It's all about me and what I fly for fun. I don't want to dictate what someone else wants to fly. If they're that worried about getting shot down and have to have something 'uber' to feel good about themselves in the game, so be it. But if you are getting your self worth from what you do in AH, I kinda feel sorry for ya.
Quit complaining about what the other guy flies and have fun with what you like to fly.
Personally I'd unperk em all and let the AH gods sort em out.
Everyone else can fly jets. I'd choose not too, and I'd still be tooling around in my 38G or Spit IX. It's all on me to find what's fun in the game for me. If that leaves, then I'll go to. But so far so good :)
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Same here Dan. I fly lots of different planes, the P-40 is one of my favorites. Nothing makes me giggle like pwning some latewar uber ride in a P-40.
Dont think of what I am doing as anti-Spit XVI, think of it as helping Kev sharpen and refine his argument against perking the XVI. :)
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I fly the 110C4b until my eyes shed bloody tears then i switch to the 110G2. occassionally my squaddies will coerce me into playing a 109K or other exotic ride but when I'm alone in the game I honor wulfgang falck.
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Originally posted by storch
I fly the 110C4b until my eyes shed bloody tears then i switch to the 110G2. occassionally my squaddies will coerce me into playing a 109K or other exotic ride but when I'm alone in the game I honor wulfgang falck.
More power to ya :)
The problem I have with these threads is it all smacks of folks worried about their scores, K/D etc.
We'd better make everyone fly something different so I feel better about the game.
I love Spits. I've been into the history of them for 30 years. But I don't fly the XVI in AH anymore because the mob does. I've never flown the LA7 for the same reason.
I find great fun in killing LA7s or Spit 16s however. In a fight they're the first one's I look for.
And that's my choice and what I find fun. I sure don't want to dictate what someone else flies for fun.
In the end it really doesn't matter cause I don't really die and I get a brand new, factory fresh plane everytime I get shot down.
I can't lose :)
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I'm not sure if this has been brought up before. I have to play devil's advocate. I like a lot of the ideas being tossed around but I must add to counter-balance the comments:
If you perk all the late war rides, newbies and those without many perks are forced into lesser rides, whereas the pilots that are already competent, have thousands of perks to spend, and so forth, are unaffected. You're punishing the new and inexperienced and rewarding the old and experienced, not the other way around. [EDIT: or not at all!]
I'm all for boosting the use of the early/midwar planeset, but you might have to overcome this flaw before you declare you've found "the way" :)
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Originally posted by Krusty
I'm not sure if this has been brought up before. I have to play devil's advocate. I like a lot of the ideas being tossed around but I must add to counter-balance the comments:
If you perk all the late war rides, newbies and those without many perks are forced into lesser rides, whereas the pilots that are already competent, have thousands of perks to spend, and so forth, are unaffected. You're punishing the new and inexperienced and rewarding the old and experienced, not the other way around.
I'm all for boosting the use of the early/midwar planeset, but you might have to overcome this flaw before you declare you've found "the way" :)
Best way to boost the early war rides is for the vets and the 'names' to stay out of the late war stuff and fly the early to mid war.
Part of the problem is some of the biggest whines come from the old timers. Any of the newbies coming in are going to see it and follow the whine.
You want to change the tone in the arena, then the vets need to change the tone. They/we set it in how we talk about this stuff.
A lot of those vets spend their time in late war rides under the excuse that if you can't beat the mob, join em, like they're going to teach the newbs a lesson by clobbering em in a late war uber ride.
All that teaches the newbs is to fly late war uber rides, and that the K/D and attaboys is more important.
OK off my soap box. If I haven't made my point by now, I never will :)
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Originally posted by Guppy35
More power to ya :)
The problem I have with these threads is it all smacks of folks worried about their scores, K/D etc.
Ding, ding, ding, give the man a ceeegar.
Krusty - Your right about the perk all mid/late war rides. All it does is force newbs into early war stuff while the vets continue to spend their 1000's of perks on late war stuff.
Oh oh, smacks once again of folks worried about their scores.
Woohoo stick all the newbs in 1942 and earlier stuff and let me pad my score by upping a moderately costing mid/late war ride so I can squish them.
As for the vets changing the tone? - Well we obviously know people won't change countries, hence the ENY limitation, so why expect things to be any different in as far as changing the tone?
Grits - sharpening and refining as we speak ;) .
Re: V - someone claimed this also and was proven wrong, the V does outurn the XIV. Will try to find the thread.
Overall -
I hardly ever fly the XVI, it kills me more than any other plane, does it bother me? NOPE.
Does it bother me there's lots of XVI's? NOPE (at least they stay and fight)
Let them have the XVI free, AS IT SHOULD BE AND SHOULD REMAIN.
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Kev, Spits are always considered special in almost every combat flight sim I've encountered. I guess its a testament to how terrific the plane was. The problem with Spitfires that it is always overused due to its fantatstic handling.
The 'golden rule' of war-time aviation seems to be that either the plane is really fast or climbs well at the expense of maneuverability, or vice versa. Therefore, in games people are given a choice of either fly a good maneuvering but slow plane, or fly a fast but bad maneuvering plane. This sort of evens out and gives balance to the variety of planes existing at a single virtual world. However, with the Spits, it is different. It's a plane that does it all. Looking at the Spit16, a '43 plane as you say, it practically out-everythings against most of the contemporary planes we have in the plane set. The contemporary '43 Bf109G-6 or Fw190A-5 we have, is admittably an undermatch. Even the early '44 P-47D-11 or Fw190A-8 is not much competition in pure A2A performance.
Despite that fact, I also think the Spit16 should remain free. We already had one 'scourge of the skies' in the form of the La-7 - and clearly HTC did not do anything about it. If that be so, perking the Spit16 and leaving the La-7 alone is flat-out unacceptable IMO, especially in the name of 'controlling overuse'.
I really don't like the direction AH is moving. My only hope is that TOD or another MA will save it.
What people cry for and get, is more and more. Later, faster, bigger guns and we end up with MA common planeset representing the last weeks of WWII. BLAH!
We have 1939 planes with max speed close to the stall speed of 1945 planes.
We have 2/3 of the planeset competative in the Hangar Queen pageant.
We have perk points and nothing to spend them on.
We have ENY values that apart from blobking usage on a severe population imbalance are meaninngless (see perks).
bozon, in reality you and I share the same view points.
However, IMO, this isn't how AH is going. AH isn't going anywhere - It was ALWAYS like this, at least IMO, structured this way.
Remember the meager plane set AH started off with. HTC didn't start out by filling early war plane rosters and then moving on to late war. They started out mostly with '44~'45 planes. P-51D, Bf109G-10, F4U-1D, F4U-1C.. and etc etc.. Since then, all of the following new introductions to the plane rosters were to add more competition at the same level. While some early war planes were eventually added, the MA itself started out as late war environment from the very beginning, and despite some worried opinions the MA never changed - up to date.
There were some suggestions on the Rolling Plane Set idea. HT flunked it. And the people chose to understand. His reasons were clear, and making some people wait forever for their favorites is not gonna be tolerated. However, RPS is not the only idea around. There are other ideas that could be brain stormed, or at least very carefully tested out. But it also seems to fall on deaf ears - or rather, HT and Pyro doesn't seem to perceive this as a problem as some of us do.
That's why my first group of suggestions were made. It was an attempt to slap a small price on the late-war planes, so the "non-perked alternatives" could gain more ground in the MA.
The problem is, everytime I suggest it there are significant resistances from the players that somehow, despite the really low perk price suggested, they accuse me of wanting to make late-war planes totally inaccessible to people and throwing the entire game into a RPS type of situation - which clearly isn't true.
What gets me even more stumped, as you see in this very thread, is if I turn 180degrees around, and suggest, "OK, you guys don't want perks. So if you don't want perked planes, let's do the same for other perked late-war rides"... and I still see people resisting the idea.
Is it time to create a second areana? where the Mosquito is actually a fast ride, bombers are more effective than JABOs at destroying stuff, 190s are formidable fighters, C202 can duke it out with spit V and P40s are not laughed at. Maybe even the stuka will see some use when its carring capacity is appreciated.
And no, this is not the CT which is too limiting for too many people.
Never!
As a guy who really loves Aces High, I dare claim that a creation of a second MA arena with a different set of rule, which will split up the people discontent from the current MA arena, will become the downfall of AH.
If a solution must be found, it must be found and applied at a universal level for the entire MA, consistently, and integrated. Splitting up the MA is a cheaper way out, which might satisfy people for a short time, but ultimately will do more harm than good.
It's either the whole MA changes, or remain status quo. I'd rather see my suggestions go unheard, than support a split MA that might use some of my suggestions as its basis.
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Originally posted by Lye-El
The most kills I have ever gotten in a single sortie is 3. I didn't land them. Last night I flew a Spit VIII. I killed and landed two aircraft on two seperate sorties. If memory serves one was a 109F4 and one was a A6m5. I got something like .2 perkies for each aircraft.
Single kill and death in 35-40 ENJ plane generally will give you more perks than land several kill in 5 ENJ plane.
Sometimes i got >20 perks for 2 kills and death in La5, >40 if i land them.
Personally i will glad to see most late war planes perked slightly (and heavy bombers or formations). 2-5 perk cost actually means nothing even for newbs exept psychologic bar.
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Get ride of all post 44 aircraft and give me a P39 + a yak3.
Or keep the 44 planes but give me a P39 + a yak3 !
please !
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Originally posted by Grits
No other plane can boast the overall performance of the XVI, while it dominates no one catagory, its clearly the best overall.
I have to agree.
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Yes, you are right.
I think if there are different arena with a different planeset the games will become more fun again.
Keep MA like it is and build 1 or 2 more arena.
1 for planes from 1939 till 1942 for excample.
I would like a arnea with P40's, Spit V and IV, BF109-G6, FW190-A5, P51B, P38G(or is it L?) and so on.
No Lala's no Spit 16. - oh that would be nice.
Hey were is the problem for TC to do so??? They can still use the same maps like the MA. All to do is to limit the planes to a special set.
Yeah bozon - you are really right.:aok
NghtFire
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Kweassa
I agree110% Perks on prop planes, flat-out suck !
CHECKERS
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Originally posted by Oldman731
Don't know why you think the CT is too limiting for too many people. We're running the Tunisia 42/43 setup right now (stop by!). Our sense has been that the "limitation" of the CT is that most people don't really want to fly the pre-1945 planes.
- oldman
I love the CT... and the 1-3 people I find in it, when I log on. On the rare occasions I find 20-30 people there it's GREAT.
The main difference from the MA is the axis vs allied theme (planeset per country) and a very limited plane selection based on the map (fin-rus, for example will not satisfy Jap planes lovers or many types of american birds lovers, even those they can fly with russian skins).
As a guy who really loves Aces High, I dare claim that a creation of a second MA arena with a different set of rule, which will split up the people discontent from the current MA arena, will become the downfall of AH.
I stated this before and I'll say it again - AH covers a too wide a time spread. 1939 - 1945 has enough planes and performance gap to fill 3 games or diffirent eras. Why don't you see a "from Wright to space flight" game throwing Fokker DR1 vs F16s ?
Currently I'm forced to face the fact that AH is an "end of WWII era" simulation that allows us to fly early war birds as a bonus. I can accept that, only I'd much preferre and earlier focus, much as I preferre late WWII over an F16 simulator. I'm not asking to kill the 1945 AH, just make also a 1942/3 AH.
This couples to my resentment of the 200 fields maps. I love the old small maps and to fill those you only need 90-200 people. Todays MA can easily reach over 500 people at rush hours.
If the CT team is up for a challange, try implementing an early war MA - meaning all rules are as the regular MA only a different plane set.
Bozon
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one more thing I forgot to add is that splitting the comunity may not be so severe and not so bad. Scenarios and events are common and people will switch areanas.
From a community point of view, the times when the MA was not much more than 200 people online had a much tighter community. Why? Because everyone knew most of the other players playing in his time zone. When I fought a guy I remembered my previous fights with him and gave a hearty . You even had squadron rivaleries - AK vs. the Assasins, 56th FG vs one of the JG iirc. Now, I fight annonymous players. It reached a point when I don't even ask for my old "bozon" handle after reactivating my account - I don't feel it matters any more.
Dont forget the constant departures of vet from the game after claiming it is not fun anymore - AKAK is just the last of them. I too left but came back accepting this as a lesser experience than it used to be. The game mechanics are top notch - it's the game setup aspects that needs fixing.
Bozon
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Again... people burn out. HTC can't make a game that is fun for everyone, all the time. Hell, I got burnt out a while ago, and I'm still not unburnt.
I flew one sortie in the MA back in like September, then waited till December to cancel because I forgot I even had a subscription.
I just recently decided to fly the H2H rooms after fixing my joystick (thats an adventure in itself :)). So far, the H2H rooms are more than enough, I usually play in the same one, and most of the time there are some decent fights in there.
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Originally posted by bozon
If the CT team is up for a challange, try implementing an early war MA - meaning all rules are as the regular MA only a different plane set.
Bozon
My guess that it would be mostly empty. You would have a few early war affectionados and that would be it. The vast majority WANT to fly the late war birds.
It's evident just looking at the choices flown in the MA.
Just saying :D
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I think its worth a try unperking the Spit and the Hogs............ I suppose the 152 is equally suitable for de perking...........I just dont think it should be there in the first place.
I have no agreement with the desire to modify game play to balance stuff much more than we have now................. but then I have no interest to do so.
I think that folk will use the ac they think is the best for what they want to do............... if that is racking up kills then uber it is.
If it is to introduce a greater element of challenge then the lesser ride accomodates this and brings in greater reward when successful.
Game play is in balance, the numbers between the best rides are pretty even.
If folk want to enjoy a 1941/2 air combat environment then they should not use the MA. (its an open melee arena)
But to put it frankly that is not what folk want. Time and time again the CT has attempted this..............and failed to attract sustainable numbers.
ergo there is no demand for a 1941/2 arena.
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Originally posted by bozon
If the CT team is up for a challange, try implementing an early war MA - meaning all rules are as the regular MA only a different plane set.
Bozon
Did almost that with two fightertown setups which we ran within the past six months. Although it was the CT, we even tried eliminating the Axis v. Allies distinction, and grouped planes in different parts of the map according to time period.
What happened was that, for the first night or two, we had a lot of people come try it. Numbers were good, it looked like a great idea. After those first couple of nights, though, attendance dropped. Many of the CT regulars boycotted the setups because it was no longer historical. The MA folks - including the ones who were most enthusiastic about an early war arena - went back to the MA. The question was, why did the MA people go away? Best guesses so far are that (1) they all got tired of flying 1940-43 airplanes, and (2)squad loyalty may have drawn them back to the MA. Never really got a lot of responses to the question from them, though.
Kind of a shame, but I think it does show that most AH fliers are wedded to their hot rod 1945 airplanes - no matter what they tell you.
- oldman
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< Anyone ever thought the problem lies in the maps themselves? >
Kev, the problem is not the maps, its in the strategy.
To have High Alt War you Need a Reason to go up there and to kill Buffs.
The only reason that can Force you go High hunting Buffs is to Protect
YOUR LOVELY FIGHTER FACTORY witch is the Target.
Imagine 50 Buffs coming to destroy the Spit XVI Factory. Hehehe. :)
The sky between 20.000-30.000 feet will be burned.
If you dont protect your lovely factory you loose your precious ride for
1-2 hours. Or more.
You dont need big changes. The buffs now do nothing, they dont realy
affect the game. Who cares if they destroy some hungars ?
You just go to the next field.
Just, put fighter factories in that big cities, who now do nothing exept to sit there,
and stay in a corner watching the spit hordes trying to protect their lovely ride :)
The same ofcourse with all precious rides.
You only need a good balance in the lethality. No way, one or two buffs to
have the power to destroy the factory.
You must need ALOT of buffs, BIG MISSIONS to destroy the factory.
Put many Maned 88's in 10s with formation code, many Maned 37s in 10s again (formations only at cities, NOT in fields)and many Maned 20mms for
low fighters (the real role of mossie, tiffies and p47s) who come ack hunting before the big mission.
And let the war rolling and the pleasure of the battle come again.
Fun All we Want.
That kind of war is the Real Airwar of WWII. European Frond. High alt fighters.
Keep the other game as is so everyone can have the option of a high or
low alt war.
Low alt war, Eastern Frond. Low alt fighters.
And bring that mobile artillery formations to give a real meaning to Il2 and stukas ground war (exept the low alt dogfights, Il2:) .
Mobile artillery can do real damage in your strategy and it also force a fierce ground war to kill it but also to protect it, the kingdom of low alt fighters but also Early war Fighters 40-41-42.
Put that Factories in the big cities.
Aces High II will go real High
(dont change anything i mean in the strategy. Ofcourse we continue to need repairs to LW planes FM, lethality problems for all with rubber bullets
and maybe a review of the perking system)
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my 2 cents
I agree with Morph (and several others) that suggest perking late war fighters or perks based on year on entry in ww2.
early war 0 perks, mid war 2-5 perks, late war 5-10 perks, (Jets and such 50 to 100 perks)
I think though if Hitech does something like that he may also need to consider resetting everybodies perks to zero 0. and reset perks at the beginning of each new tour, (or with each map rotation)
This would probably give you early war planes for the first day or two as people gradually earn perk points. They may also need to restructure how perks are awarded.
for newbies right out of the gate HTC could give them 50 or so perk points when they sign up
just a thought;)
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Originally posted by Oldman731
The question was, why did the MA people go away? Best guesses so far are that (1) they all got tired of flying 1940-43 airplanes,
Yep! Prolly didn’t take very long either.
Originally posted by Oldman731
Kind of a shame, but I think it does show that most AH fliers are wedded to their hot rod 1945 airplanes - no matter what they tell you.
- oldman
Shame? Its simply what they define as "Having fun"
Its like their cup-O-tea :aok
Set up a pure Fighter Town like there was in Airwarrior...
2 countries.
3 Airfields for each country of varying Altitudes and so on.
NO Gvs!
Super Duper lethal Auto ack ranging 5 miles out from the Air Bases and
a full plane set. They will come.
Think not? Drop into the MA when the "Donut" map is running and all of our questions will come to rest. Oh that’s right. We were discussing way's of trying to force certain philosophies on others weren’t we?
I think oldmans account of the CT experiment says all that really needs to be said. While i do find the historic scenarios can be fun. I also realize that i am only 1 person.
Force our idea of fun on someone else…and they will find another place to have fun.
Whether it be in another arena or another game ;)
Everyone has his or her threshold. I would think it unwise to continually press the envelope to the point of no return.
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Originally posted by Mugzeee
Set up a pure Fighter Town like there was in Airwarrior...
2 countries.
3 Airfields for each country of varying Altitudes and so on.
NO Gvs!
Super Duper lethal Auto ack ranging 5 miles out from the Air Bases and
a full plane set. They will come.
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Do the perkrating much higher and then perk more planes is my opinion.
Everbody played the game for a little time has enough points to play everthing
and go in the line with those Lala, Tempest, 16s players who choose this type
because of no need for a model with a lesser performance rating.
On the other way no need for perks, because the players playing for years
have enough points and those new play late wars like spit16, Doras or K4
who have same performance to the perked ones.
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My favorite is resetting the perks every year and perking all the 44/45.
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:cry
Many replies and that is the point.
There are fureballers, tollcheater, bomberguys, panzerfreaks, teamplayer, single player, much player, less player ... and so on.
Everybody stands for his own interests.
Why doesn't the furballer meet in DA??? I think its made for the furballer.
You won't find a perksystem wich fits to all.:cry
Maybe ToD will help - I don't know.
I still believe in 2 different MA, 1 with all planes and 1 for only early war planes.:cool:
Why do I fly the 190-D9? Very easy, there are so many LA7, Spit 16 and P51-D in the MA, with a 190-A5 or A8 I can hardly survive.
I remember the AW times. There was a relaxed arena and a full realism arena.
Maybe to MA would solve all.
NghtFire
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Yup,
perk almost every plane just a bit.
- 41 no perks
42 2 perks
43 4 perks
44 6 perks
45 10 perks
... and then add some more perks if needed for überperformance and overusage !
Then also combine the separate perk categories into one! make it possible to earn perks in GV:s and spend them in planes etc.
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Originally posted by Kolibri
:cry
Why doesn't the furballer meet in DA??? I think its made for the furballer.
NghtFire
Actually the DA as used a FFA arena these days. Which is fine. But the MOD used to explain that you werent to interfere with a fight without asking.
Its really NOT a FFA environment by design. But it does work well enough as a FFA Arena, and it has evolved into mostly that. Till some newbe attacks a dueling pair and gets his Arse chewed for not following the rules. But how was he to know? He was just at another base where the FFA clan was having a FFA party. Kind of confusing for the new guy.
Notice that when rules dont get followed it causes fonfusion?
But i am all for the DA as an FFA. But i think it too bland a terrain to draw the crowd that some would like to see.
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Originally posted by BlauK
Yup,
perk almost every plane just a bit.
- 41 no perks
42 2 perks
43 4 perks
44 6 perks
45 10 perks
... and then add some more perks if needed for überperformance and overusage !
Then also combine the separate perk categories into one! make it possible to earn perks in GV:s and spend them in planes etc.
more than a date based system we need a perk based on performance and indicator like :
speed at sea level * speed at 10K * speed at 15K * range * roll rate * climb speed * turn radius etc ...
I don't think someone will be happy with a A6M5 at 6 perk :D
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I have a fantastic idea. How about we leave things exactly as they are, with perhaps a minor reduction in the cost of the Ta152 and F4U-4? Frankly, the more I see people throwing out ideas on rolling perksets or date-based perking or formulas for performance-based perks, the more I realize that what we have in place right now really works for the most part. Sure, Spit XVIs and La7s show up in abundance, but if you remove those from the equation, you'll merely replace them with P-51s and Tiffies.
It's not broken.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Another thing I'd like to see is the to have the ability of sharing your perk points with your squadmates. But ONLY among squadmates.
this would be a good thing............wonder if it is possible?
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Originally posted by Grits
Umm...The F4U-4 is a MONSTER. I'd love to see it unperked, I wouldnt fly anything else.
exactly
:aok
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
I have a fantastic idea. How about we leave things exactly as they are, with perhaps a minor reduction in the cost of the Ta152 and F4U-4? Frankly, the more I see people throwing out ideas on rolling perksets or date-based perking or formulas for performance-based perks, the more I realize that what we have in place right now really works for the most part. Sure, Spit XVIs and La7s show up in abundance, but if you remove those from the equation, you'll merely replace them with P-51s and Tiffies.
It's not broken.
-- Todd/Leviathn
He's a spoilsort, but he's right.
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
I have a fantastic idea. How about we leave things exactly as they are, with perhaps a minor reduction in the cost of the Ta152 and F4U-4? Frankly, the more I see people throwing out ideas on rolling perksets or date-based perking or formulas for performance-based perks, the more I realize that what we have in place right now really works for the most part. Sure, Spit XVIs and La7s show up in abundance, but if you remove those from the equation, you'll merely replace them with P-51s and Tiffies.
It's not broken.
-- Todd/Leviathn
Why ill be hogswygled....theres a wonderful idea! :aok
All this talk of Perking is making me crave a Cup of Coffe.
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Perk everything.
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
I have a fantastic idea. How about we leave things exactly as they are, with perhaps a minor reduction in the cost of the Ta152 and F4U-4? [...]
I'd vote for that as well. But I think both these planes should be half their current price.
The F4U-4 is just too expensive for a plane with only 6 .50's - it may be faster than the La7 above 10K, but it sure don't outclimb it, and it sure don't have the guns.
And the Ta152 ... well ... sucks, though if it were half the current price it would see duty going after those high-alt bombers I'm sure.
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CHog should stay perked... 4 x hizookas on a hog is scary. If that thing gets unperked, I'll be forced to turn into a hog weenie :furious
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All this discussion of perkpoints doesn't get the basic problem.
During wwII there built about 60 TA152th and only 3 of them were in flight.
How many F4U-4 were built and flown.
Perking means that there shouldn't fly hundreds of last wwII planes. Make things a bit more realistic.
If you got no skills a unperked F4U-4 doesn't make any better.
This game would be much better without all this late wwII planes.
Get rid of LA7, Spit16, Tempest, 190-D9, 109-K4 and what ever came not earlier than jan. 1944. With that point u only have to perk the jets and all works fine.
:rofl
NghtFire
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Originally posted by BlauK
Yup,
perk almost every plane just a bit.
- 41 no perks
42 2 perks
43 4 perks
44 6 perks
45 10 perks
... and then add some more perks if needed for überperformance and overusage !
Then also combine the separate perk categories into one! make it possible to earn perks in GV:s and spend them in planes etc.
I think HTC is trying to gain more customers, not drive them away. Dumbest idea I have ever heard. :rofl Just because you can't fly your ride why punish people who can. I know a few P-40 pilots that can out best most other planes. If they can do it no reason anyone else can't. :aok
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spit16....i rather wonder why it was introduced somtimes,..it is a fine plane with many atributes, yet it lacks in range, bomb load, so I usualy stay away unless in primary base deffense, where it does have a decided advantage, i love the D9 and fly it alot,... so when the 16 came out i thought"dang! this thing rolls like murder!, and it can turn....JOY*"
after a few flights though I was back to plugging away with the FW's 47's and 109's...its a beginers plane like most of the spits, and in a great pilots hands its almost untouchable, but so is the LA, hey perking really does seem like a well thought out viable option, but if HTC doesnt im not gonna lose any sleep.:o
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Put down that shovel, son. . .
:O OMG! Too late! The Zombie LIVES!
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Let this thread DIE... it's 7 months old.
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There's no need to keep bumping this thread up.
It's dead, Jim.
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All this perk this and perk that talk is a waste of time.
Flying midwar planes like the D11 for instance. Managed to shoot down more spits, La7s, and N1Ks then shot me down in a P47D11.
How you ask? Well...standard tactics for every fighter Pilot. Fight your fight not the other Pilots fight. Use what your aircraft gives you, don't ask it to do something it can't. How many times have you seen a countryman try to fight in the vertical with a 109 or 38 and they're in a P51? Bet lots of times. Bet you saw the 51 lose too!
All planes that are being named as "should be perked" go down when you hit them with cannons or machinegun fire. Learn the nuances of the game. Don't be baited into a fight. Fight your fight not theirs. If you know you can't win why fight? Extend and comeback or leave the scene of the upcoming accident (yours) Press the fight on your terms don't be suckered into theirs.
IMHO only thing that shoud be perked are the 262 and 163. All the prop planes in this game are beatable buy the others.
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Not if they're 50MPH faster than the fastest unperked prop plane, for example. Not when any 2-weeker newbie who has no previous flight experience can hop into a plane get 5 kills and land them easily. These are planes that need perking. Pilot skill only goes so far. It only helps so much after a certain point. After that, the plane does the rest. Put an average pilot in a p47 and he can get kills. Put a newbie in one he dies instantly. Put same newbie in spit16 and watch him get 5 kills before he augers.
Edit: uh.. .I mean... STOP resurrecting the dead posts!!!!
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uhhhhh ooohhh ewwww uuhhhhh WHO JUST FARTED!?!?!?!!?!?!?????
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Apparently he did (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=183280)
EDIT: Okay I'm done here. G'night all. I've only been checking this because I can't sleep. I'll probably leave it dead from now on.
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See Rule #13