Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Tangogulf on January 05, 2006, 09:04:58 AM
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I know I'm going to open up what maybe a controversial subject here, but I gotta ask.
Before I get flamed, let me just say that I'm looking at both these sims and am having a hard time understanding the differences between them. I realize that Im on an Aces High board and the results will be skewed, but, hey, I had to be a paying member to go on warbirds forums. Strike one.
Before I get the suggestion that I should try both, let me just add this one point: I'm married, children and work. Time is limited, so I'd rather just find out the feature lists and jump into the one that best suits me.
Thanks for any and all help
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I Created both. AH is better.
HiTech
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Originally posted by hitech
I Created both. AH is better.
HiTech
nice! :aok
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Hey looks like Warbirds MA has 31 people in it. :aok
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I developed on both. AH is better.
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Originally posted by hitech
I Created both. AH is better.
HiTech
Thanks guys. Nothing like getting it straight from the horses mouth!
So how is it better?
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:D
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Originally posted by hitech
I Created both. AH is better.
HiTech
A Kill has been recorded!
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
:D
hey you sign up for that HGTV.com house?
i figure you would since your close there in NC.
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I played both. AH is better.
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Originally posted by hitech
I Created both. AH is better.
HiTech
Never played the others. HTC has a customer in me as long as this stays running.
I haven't purchased a store-bought Sim since I've joined.
Karaya
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Yeah there's just no thrill in hunting down AI anymore .......:cry
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Someone please tell the man why HTC is better. AH is the only sim I've ever played so I can't answer. I just accept it as such because so many are here & so few are there. :D
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AH is def a better game....
thats is all
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Ive played both, AcesHigh is Way Better ! :cool:
"Someone please tell the man why HTC is better. AH is the only sim I've ever played so I can't answer. I just accept it as such because so many are here & so few are there. "...........Okeh, I'll do my best ......
" (checkers) nods to left hand holding a warbirds CD < dis is chit.....
nods to other hand holdin' an AcesHigh CD < and this is Shinola"
CHECKERS :D
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Originally posted by hitech
I Created both. AH is better.
HiTech
That's sounds like the word from god! I would go with what go....HT said. :D
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Here is a short synopsis of what happened.
HT originally developed Warbirds using PI = 3.1415
HT sold Warbirds to IIRC IE (Interactive Entertainment?) some (many) years ago.
A jerk whose initials are BS (really bought ourright or controlling interest in IE.
This same jerk insisted the original value of PI was too complex and through a management directive, made PI equal to 3
HT quit and started Aces High using PI = 3.1415926....
And the rest is history.....
Delta
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Hell what do you know the value of pie is $1.70 a slice
MMMMMMMMMM Pie
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I'm getting the general idea here.
The history thread is definitely good to know. Have downloaded the client, and flown around a bit off line.
Dang, the thing runs good on my system. Very very fluid.
Going to take a closer look. Thanks guys.
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I've played both and AH is better....
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Hey, both offer free two week trials tho WB's insists that you pony up a credit card number before your "free" trial begins.
Try em both out and report back.
Max
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Originally posted by DMax
...WB's insists that you pony up a credit card number before your "free" trial begins.
This CC policy is one reason why AH is better than WB....
:D
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I was curious about warbirds some time ago. So looked into joining for a while. So I looked for a download but found all kinds of complications in downloading. As in I had to pay to join a third party in order to download quickly or wait in a queue. With dial up that was a non runner. I quickly dropped the idea.
That has changed now but I looked at their website recently and while interesting. Two things put me off. The low numbers in the main arena and the fact that you had to sign up before you could even download the game to try offline or pay $12.95 to download the game.
AH is much better in that regard. I never played warbirds and if I was a newbie looking at both. I know which I would choose.
Right now there are 145 in AH's main arena. 42 in Warbirds.
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I flew WB's 2.7 for a few months before moving over to AH back in '01 or so.
Didn't much care for the FM nor the rolling plane set. Not that eye candy makes a huge difference to me but when I saw the clouds, night time, dawn, etc in AH I was pretty well blown away.
Then too was the fact that HTC provided updates on a regular basis and that they had their' collective ears tuned to the wishes of the players.
Find me a better WW2 airsim and I'll play it.
Max
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You wont fully know the difference if you dont try both yourself.
You ask over on this board and expect an unbiased opinion??
Think again.
Seriously try both.
Communicate with both communities.
Understand though, sheer numbers in the arenas isnt the be all end all.
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Originally posted by hitech
I Created both. AH is better.
HiTech
I thought AL Gore invented AH and WB just
after he invented the internet...
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Mussie said
Hell what do you know the value of pie is $1.70 a slice
Mussie, would that be Chicken Pot Pie ? :cool:
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Originally posted by hitech
I Created both. AH is better.
HiTech
Yeah I gotta agree I have tried both.... AH is definately the better of the two!
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Tangogulf, if you decide to try AH might I make a suggestion?
Your two week trial period starts when you log online. Before you log into any of the online arenas you might want to spend a few days playing offline, reading the help files and setting up your video and joystick. It will make those two weeks a little easier and you actually experince more game play. And you always can come to the boards to ask questions or get help.
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I realize that this community is biased towards Aces High. And one persons opinion can be completely different from anothers.
However, as my post originally stated, I really don't have the time to be investigating both. Knowing the history of both games has certainly given me some perspective. I suppose in the end, what I was looking for was some perspective, which is what I have now got.
Airscrew, thanks for the tip. That is exactly what I will do before logging on. I'm playing with the the solo play right now and will be researching the game as time goes on.
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Beaver Pie :D
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
I haven't purchased a store-bought Sim since I've joined.
Karaya
Hehe... I haven't bought ANY game since I started playing this. :D
I tried Warbirds for a short time. I think it was one flight. Not much going on. Shot what turned out to be drones that just tootled on their way after I started shooting. Didn't feel right. Graphics a bit prettier. End of test one.
Test two.
Downloaded Aces High. Lots of people flying and talking. Both voice and in the RAdio buffer. No drones trundeling about. Aircraft handleing seemed better. And it was FUN. Ran my two weeks out and signed up. I have been enjoying it ever since.
Graphics have improved since. More Aircraft Have been added since. Framerates have improved since.:aok
Now how about that Wirblewind? :D
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Originally posted by hitech
I Created both. AH is better.
HiTech
Heh! Awesome response! :)
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Yes I've flown both.
However its been over 4 years since I was online with brand W.
I had serious issues with Hotseat and the way he ran things. That was the final straw.
A HTC has WAY better customer support, seriously, second to none.
B Brand W's always sucked, always will.
If you have a credit card problem, which do you want to deal with?
AH is constantly under developement, the crew fly it if not daily, weekly.
(Some under other names to avoid the endless questions)
WB well I've seen it go over 2.5 years to add a single bomber. No comparison.
(This was after HT left)
When you do get online, look up me or another trainer. Spend some time in the Training Arena getting up to speed. You'll find the AH community helpfull, opinionated, and a bit boisterous at times. Take it all with a grain of salt & you'll be fine.
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Hmmm...
AH is better???...... lot more dots ;-)
Better get metric system work HT...then you may have better one ;-))
pjk
nowadays puujiikoo
btw, how may of you would pay 2$/hour for game + another 2$/hour your internet connection to play online.. ;-) ?
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After trying the rest, AH is best. :)
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Originally posted by -pjk--
btw, how may of you would pay 2$/hour for game + another 2$/hour your internet connection to play online.. ;-) ?
Not many; certainly not me.
Max
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Flew WB2.77 for a year or two, left when WBIII came about. Dabbled with AH on and off, came in here full time last summer.
Miss the Rolling Plane Set and Axis vs. Allies format.
Dont miss the FM and low graphics level.
Community is just as good on either side of the fence.
Only thing I really miss (other than some of the great guys I flew with and the aforemention RPS and AvA) is the offline practice mode. Was nice to be able to practice real gunnery and ACM/SA without having to log on.
Other than that, AH has my vote.
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Originally posted by hitech
I Created both. AH is better.
HiTech
HAHAHAHA!:lol
nice
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Hmm, I realize now after typing all of this that you asked for Warbirds vs. Aces High not WWIIOL vs. Aces High. I'll keep this up here, though, as I did go through all the work typing it.
I've played a lot of Aces High and a fair amount of WWIIOL. My quick summary: Aces High is much better for flying.
Many more details are as follows. One thing to keep in mind is that WWIIOL (now perhaps called "Battleground Europe") is a much different game than Aces High.
FLYING
In WWIIOL, the general feel of the aircraft, to me, is similarly realistic to Aces High. I suspect Aces High is a lot more realistic in terms of performance details (roll rate vs. speed, speed vs. alt, etc.) and how well the aircraft performance matches actual flight-test data. (I say this because I know of HiTech from way back in the Air Warrior days, I've seen him post messages about details here and there over this past decade, I know a lot of the math behind modelling flight dynamics, and I feel that he knows a lot about and is careful about lots of details that few other games are likely to get right.)
For virtual-world analogs to and subsititutions for real-world effects (how blackouts are handled, how approaching stall is handled, how view is handled, etc.), Aces High is much better. The real fighters generally lacked stall horns, auto trim, etc. However, in real fighters, pilots get the sense of g's and buffetting, which we (sitting in a chair in front of a computer screen) do not. So, it becomes very important how various real-world effects are translated into the virtual world.
WWIIOL's blackouts are much more abrupt than Aces High, which is annoying but which can be gotten used to. In real life, you can easily feel and control g's without having to look at any gauges, so it is important in simulations to have a stand-in for being able to sense g's (and how close you are to blackout) that is similarly easy to use and don't require taking your attention off a target.
WWIIOL doesn't have any stall horn, like Aces High does. It has buffetting as a warning, but when you are in a fight, the buffetting is very hard to notice, when in fact in a real plane that gives buffet as a warning of stall (like a Marchetti SF-260, for example, which I have flown -- although not all planes give good buffetting warning before stall), it is easy to notice, even in a fight. Thus, a stall horn is a better analog of that effect than screen shake and subtle noise changes.
WWIIOL doesn't have a decent autopilot. Yes, most real WWII planes didn't have autopilots, but if you are going to have an autopilot in the first place, you might as well have one that is decent. It makes it so much easier to look at maps and type messages into the radio.
WWIIOL doesn't have built in voice. You can use Teamspeak, but this requires extra hassle and coordination with others. It's much, much better to have the VOX built into the game.
WWIIOL doesn't have auto combat trim. This isn't that big a deal either way. I use combat trim in AH, but it's not that big a hassle to do without it in WWIIOL.
VIEWING
This is the biggest shortcoming of WWIIOL, and it is a major issue, in my opinion. In most aircraft in WWIIOL, you can't see anything out the back of your plane. True, in some of the real aircraft, you didn't have the ability to look straight back (like in a Hurricane). However, in WWIIOL, your virtual self is rigidly strapped into the seat with no ability to move around. There are huge (much, much larger than AH) blind spots behind the aircraft, with no ability to move your head or twist your torso. Sit in your seat and try to look back without moving your shoulders at all -- that's the view you get in WWIIOL.
Also, in terms of being able to keep track of things outside your aircraft, WWIIOL sucks. It treats every view change (such as going from looking forward and left to looking left) as losing sight of an enemy aircraft and reduces the visibility to the icon you have in sight. This wouldn't be so bad, but the skies are generally quite cloudy in WWIIOL.
The effect of the previous two aspects is that, although I rarely lose sight of an enemy I'm engaging in Aces High (or in simulated dogfights in Fighter Combat USA that I've done), I often lose sight of the enemy I'm on in WWIIOL. Also, it is quite frequent for me to get bounced by someone I never see, even though I'm actively scanning around, including checking my blind spot from time to time.
Basically, in my opinion, the view system in WWIIOL sucks. It could be fixed, but I think they consider it to be more realistic, which I don't. It is only more realistic if (1) you can't move at all in your seat in an aircraft, which isn't how you should strap yourself in and (2) you close your eyes for a second every time you move your eyes while tracking an enemy and have to reacquire the target.
It is very, very hard to see ground vehicles in WWIIOL. It's like in Aces High with no icons. Somewhat more realistic (as there aren't icons in real life), but your eye has a lot better resolution than a computer screen and better ability to pick out motion and color differences compared to what you see on a computer screen.
GUNNERY
Gunnery in WWIIOL seems like the planes spew out a lot more bullets than in Aces High (or more precisely that there is much less space between bullets in a bullet stream than in Aces High -- more like a stream from a fire hose). You can sweep your bullet stream across an enemy and have a much higher chance of hitting in WWIIOL. As a result, head ons seem much easier. People who are good at it can hit you in a forward-quarter shot while you are doing maneuvers that would cause you to be almost impossible to hit from the front in Aces High -- or so it seems to me. It is frustrating to be in your Hurricane I and not be able to evade a front shot from a 109 diving on you when you see it coming far, far in advance, go into a good evasive, and the guy manages to hit you without trouble anyway.
DAMAGE MODEL
The damage model in WWIIOL seems a lot more graded in most ways and more lethal in one way. In Aces High, when you hit, you see it (with bright hit flashes), and it doesn't take all that much before debris comes of the enemy or a wing blows off or something catastrophic happens. In WWIIOL, you don't see flashes (so it's hard to tell if you are hitting), and you can get hit with a fair amount of fire and suffer some amount of degraded performance on your plane, but it will still fly. The one way in which lethality seems higher in WWIIOL is that, if you get a pilot wound, you are usually just dead right then -- and that happens frequently if you get a head-on shot.
GRAPHICS
I like the graphics of WWIIOL. I like it in Aces High, too. The WWIIOL world looks more realistic (it does have nice-looking clouds), but frame rates are probably about 1/3 what they are in Aces High, and it is not uncommon for me to get into areas where my framerate drops to about 1 frame/second for a few seconds as I come within range of more people or within range of a city.
GAME ENVIRONMENT
In WWIIOL, you can't fly what you want, when you want, from where you want, on the mission you want. You get to fly what your rank allows you (the crappiest planes at the start) on missions that are posted. That is in some ways a more realistic environment, but the result is that the air-to-air action in WWIIOL is usually very sparse and dull compared to Aces High. A big fight in WWIIOL probably involves 5-10 aircraft total (unless it's some sort of special occasion). Being able to go bomb ground targets is rare -- there rarely are missions up for level bombing buildings or bridges. Being able to divebomb ground vehicles is more common, but not much of that available for low-ranking guys, either.
A typical mission for me in WWIIOL is to take up a Hurricane I (as a low-ranking pilot, I can get that or a Spit I if Spit I's are avail, which they often are not), fly out to a city that is under attack, mill around for a while trying to find any action, finding a plane or three, getting in a swirling fight during which I sometimes lose sight of the enemy even though I am solidly saddled up on him and would never lose him in Aces High, then lose the kill because he runs to friendly robo-gunner ack (which is very deadly in WWIIOL), or I get bounced by several other enemies I never saw until they were on me (despite my looking around).
For flying, I like the game environment of Aces High better. If I want action, I can get just about any type I want in the Main Arena. If I want realism, I can fly in scenarios or squad nights, both of which are more realistic than WWIIOL.
CONCLUSION
WWIIOL is fun for flying once in a while; but the flying aspect feels totally shallow compared to Aces High (few planes up, small fights, not much action, no good VOX, crappy viewing system). Aces High is a much better place to fly.
I fly Aces High for air combat. I play Battlefield 1942 for instant-action ground-combat fun. I play WWIIOL for more realism of ground combat, and once in a while take a plane up for the hell of it.
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Originally posted by hitech
I Created both. AH is better.
HiTech
showoff:D
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Originally posted by Treize69
Miss the Rolling Plane Set and Axis vs. Allies format.
Try the Combat Theater and the weekly Special Events for something different every now and then. :)
I've tried WB only offline (2.77 and some version of 3), I've been here in AH since Dec '02...
I don't know why I didn't start flying online earlier, since I've played flight sims most of my life - since 1984 (Blue Max!? etc on C64) - in the 1990's I played some jet & heli sims in LAN (ATF Gold, USNF etc) but never tried any of the online games. :(
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I played WB since it was "Confirmed Kill" in May 1995. I moved to AH 3 years ago or so for basically one reason:
On any given weeknight, there are about 30 players in WB, and around 260 in AH. (I play late, pacific time). On a weekend night, there are around 70 players in WB, and around 375 in AH.
I'm playing these games to fly against lots of other humans. I go where the humans are. Case closed; AH wins.
WB III never struck me as markedly inferior, just different (though the stangnent planeset is a problem, and the insane decisions of it's company are troublesome too). NONE of these programs offere cutting edge graphics and sounds, IMHO. Both offer sufficient eye candy to make playing enjoyable. Both have a good community.
-Llama
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Hey thanks for the reponses. Especially you Brooke.
In regards to the fact that you compared it to WW2 online, its ok by me. It is one of the games that I have been looking at recently, so your analysis works for me. I appreciate the thought and time you put into the response.
In the end, I have to say, its nice to have a choice. Some of you mention AW on Genie. I played on it very briefly years ago...it cost $9 an hour for me to play it from Canada. Thus, my career did not lastlong. My point being, it wasnt that long ago that I would have killed for the choices that we have today.
Now, as I seem to be more and more interested in flightsims, its good to be able to have this discussion about the differences between games.
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Originally posted by hitech
I Created both. AH is better.
HiTech
Gotta be Quote of the year !!!
hell yes AH is better ... just compare players in the Arena's at prime time U.S. between the big 3 ww2 flight sims .. (AH,Fighter ace, WB )
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The way WB handled input sucked. AH has an immensely better control/input capability, and it's all built in! There was no "trim" in WB, you had a rudder indicator on the top of your gunsight and it NEVER was centered, requiring constant input (and on twisty sticks that blows, big time). The flight model wasn't so hot, the physics were limited. Ammo loads were listed as values from 0 to 100 (as a percentage) and if you had more than 100 rounds you would fire a lot of rounds before the number ever changed.
The bullets and gunnery model sucked big time. The terrain and visuals are so much better, it's like the difference between AW DOS and WB2.7, but involving WB2.7 and AH2.
WB, regardless of how complicated it was to install/run, regardless of how poorly it was run by iMOL, regardless of how many people play it, is simply inferior to AH. It's like Jane's USNF '97 compared to Falcon 4.0.
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The single largest difference between the two is the control movements "built in" lag in in WB.
There is a delay in every stick movement you make, ostensibly to remove stick stirring and micro warps but it sure is a pain.
4 years in WB's and 2 here, Whilst there are parts of AH that don't compare to WB's I would say that AH is the best all round sim available.
wipass
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I flew WB2 for a few years,and WB3 for about a year 97-01
The Only thing i thought WB's did better then AH was Events and Trainers
Nothing against our Trainers or Event planners here,
but in WB you could count on Daddy or Couger or Tech being in the TA often, and really being able to learn some advaced ACM.
as far as Event's,,,we have alot,,,,but hardly anyone shows up,
we have alot less players in AH that like to recreate historical battles IMO
and I also like how some of the best fighter squads would fly escort for the Buff squads on a regular basis, and there were many Bomber sqds that flew formation and were organized and well respected,,,,,
things we dont often see here
I also feel that having ingame moderators in WB's was better then whatever we have here,,people seemed to treat each other a bit better.
with that said,i realize there are a ton of more players here,,,,so more bad apples
But that was a long time ago...
AH is the game to play now, I would never go back
If ya go in there,,tell 550th Tigertails i said hello
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Ok a little off topic but I saw someone mention Blue Max on the C64 and have to say I loved that game. I still have it on one of those 5.25 disks somewhere. I have 3 working C64's at my disposal now and have thought about them often. :)
Back on topic, I havent flown in WB but I downloaded AH, what abou 2.5 to 3 years ago and was so impressed I got it onto my friends computers and we would play it on lan 4 player. We loved it.
I finally tryed the online version for my free 2 weeks and I told my wife if she would let me pay $15 a month for AH I would stop smokeing.
In 2 weeks I had stoped smokeing totally.
If WB can keep you that intrested that you can forget about some kind of addiction then go for it but my money is on AH.
I am now wing leader of the Birds of Prey Merlins and my brother has joined up. If you try the AH2 2 week trial and are in bishland go to voice chan 182 and we'll help. If you like knite or Rook I'll bet there are squads there willing to help out learning the game. and good luck
P.S. AH is the BEST
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Again, thanks for the great replies. Nice to hear the meat and potatoes of why it is better. I wasn't really looking for which is better, but the differences between the two. Looks like I got both and itll be AH that I try.
Having said that I feel like it was a major accomplishment because I got my HOTAS set up. Rudder peddles are a little sensitive, but Ill work on it.
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as far as Event's,,,we have alot,,,,but hardly anyone shows up,
we have alot less players in AH that like to recreate historical battles IMO
Ahem.
I think if you hook up with one of the squads for Friday Night Squad Ops you will find that we have about 200 players showing up to fight historical battles (one life events).
Basically FSO run 3 friday nights and then take one off and starts a new FSO.
Current FSO is the USN in 1944 hitting the IJAAF facilities on Mindano.
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Hello everybody :)
I currently still play Warbirds ( someone has too !! ) and I did play Aces High a few years ago:) I have just downloaded the latest version of AH so in a few weeks I will let you know what happens!
Must admit that a big reason for trying AH again is the low numbers now in WB and lack of updates :(
Look forward to seeing you all soon....and be gentle with me :aok
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vorlon and don't worry we will shoot the shoft fuzzy 20mm channon shells at you. ;)
Catch you up in the virtual skies.
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Originally posted by Cooley
as far as Event's,,,we have alot,,,,but hardly anyone shows up,
we have alot less players in AH that like to recreate historical battles IMO
The Wed Night SnapShot's typically have 30-50 players in them week in, week out. Lately, if we only get 30-35 players, I consider it a light turnout, and THAT is as many or more than are in the main arena in WB for prime time. Not bad eh?
Come fly the Wed Night, and Thur. day SnapShots. LOTS of fun, and pretty decent numbers. I would like to see it grow to 50-80 players per week.
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Originally posted by Tangogulf
Again, thanks for the great replies. Nice to hear the meat and potatoes of why it is better. I wasn't really looking for which is better, but the differences between the two. Looks like I got both and itll be AH that I try.
Having said that I feel like it was a major accomplishment because I got my HOTAS set up. Rudder peddles are a little sensitive, but Ill work on it.
Kiss the rest of your life goodbye. :D
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This threads begining has got to be the funnies true thing Ive heard in years.
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I choked on a wheat thin when I read your reply HiTech. :D Laughed for 5 minutes after I had my color back.
Tangogulf just call. At AH you talk to people, in fact they pick up the phone.
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Just to let you all know that I have been "playing" Aces High now for about a week, and I have ventured online a couple of times :)
Big to everyone I met and who said hello, thanks guys.
When my 2 weeks trial is up I will be signing on here full time!
I will still be playing the other one, as I still have a few squad mates over there, but I am impressed with AH's changes since my last time ( about 2 years ago ) so will be frequenting here more :)
Congrats all :aok
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FB+AEP+PF is The Pwn.
Amen:p
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Originally posted by JAWS2003
FB+AEP+PF is The Pwn.
Amen:p
The (quasi)words you use to express that tells me more than enough to know I should avoid it.
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I've played many online flight sims, from Airwarrior to AH2 to WWIIOL (HAHAHA) to IL2.
AH2 has the best community, diverse playing grounds, and probably one of the most addicting combination of gameplay, graphics and is more "real" in terms of flying.
Now if I can only get HTC to give me a free yearly subscription because I'm too cool.
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If you can find "The History Channel's Battle of Britain," it runs off the WB engine. Has a bunch of offline stuff to do.
IL2/AEP/PF is what I play when I get tired of dieing. Still wish I could find an offline WWII tank simulator. :D