Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: NUKE on January 07, 2006, 09:41:36 AM
-
The US economy created over 2 million jobs each of the last 2 years. The unemployment rate has dipped to 4.9 %, more Americans own homes than ever before and we have gas prices down to about $2.20 a gallon.
Wonder why we don't see the big news on tv or in the papers? What happened to all the vocal dooms day crowd in the press and in politics? I guess they switched gears into the next negative dooms day topic.......how we are losing the war in Iraq.
During the last election, some Dems were calling the US economy the worst since the great depression. I wonder if it was hard to find a parking spot at the Home Depot or local malls during the great depression, just like today.
Yeah, the sky is falling alright and George Bush is destroying jobs and we are losing in Iraq.
-
From what Ive read, seen, and heard humans enjoy predicting their downfalls. And when they know they are wrong they dont admit it but just move on to another.
-
There is a difference between doomsday whackos and politicians just flat out lying and trying to scare people.
No sane peson could believe that the US economy was the worst since the great depression during the last election, but they let it fly anyway. The same people who said that George Bush was "talking down" the economy during his first campaign.
Now they are harping about Iraq. They (politicians, media) don't seem to care about how their words and actions might effect our economy, our troops, or our national security as long as they can bring GWB down.
-
I ment downfall as in depressions, not as in the end of us all.
Minimum wage just went up also.
-
Originally posted by NUKE
The US economy created over 2 million jobs each of the last 2 years. The unemployment rate has dipped to 4.9 %, more Americans own homes than ever before and we have gas prices down to about $2.20 a gallon.
1. What sort of jobs has the US economy created? There are only so many kids in the country that'll fill the burger-flipping jobs.
2. IIRC, most "home sales" now aren't new residences, they are investments. So while it might be accurate to say that wealthy Americans own more homes than ever before, I doubt it'd be accurate to say that more Americans own homes.
3. Yea, gas prices are friggin weird like that, huh?
-
Do they include people who enlist into the service in the new job area?
-
I have to agree that the economy is booming right along. I always find that the best indicator of the economy is a T crane. Before 2000, very few were up, now, I see many up in every city I travel through, now where is that money coming from?
-
Considering what has went on in the past few years, most of which would have put any other country on their knees, and the fact that we`re steadily kicking butts and taking names on a few different fronts, I`d say the economy is doing great.
-
The credit for this economic recovery will go to the next President. Trust me on this one. :)
-
yeah and people are buying cell phones like you wouldnt believe. I should know cause I sell cell phones. WTG on the economy and WTG on the war in Iraq/Afganistan.
-
Good news doesnt sell or draw viewers
When's the last time you sat and watched the nightly news on the big three, then got up feeling good about the world?
-
Originally posted by LePaul
Good news doesnt sell or draw viewers
When's the last time you sat and watched the nightly news on the big three, then got up feeling good about the world?
That's a whole different topic, but I'll say this:
Good news sells just as well as bad news, in my opinion. It's just that most of the lefty politicians and media who support them, are willing and able to lie and try to create fear instead of presenting any positive message or idea.
A news paper headline of "Best Economy in Years" on the front page would sell just as well as "Worst Economy since the Great Depression", especially since the latter would be an obvious lie and a joke.
Good news, like 12 miners rescued ( sadly, was wrong), landing men on the moon, intersesting new inventions, success stories in Iraq......all of that is good news and could sell just as well as a bunch of negative stuff would.
There are good, interesting and amazing things that happen every day which could be in the news, but are nearly ignored.
-
Originally posted by Toad
The credit for this economic recovery will go to the next President. Trust me on this one. :)
That's almost three years away, alot can happen to the economy in that time. I actually would like to see the Democrats take the House the Senate and the White House. I have this theory that the Liberals are impotent with out having control of the SCOTUS. It would be interesting watching them totally confused on how to pass legislation that 75% of the country apposes. They are so used to using an activist court rather than legislation they would be at a total loss. Then, if by some fluke they got something through after months of arm wringing and trade offs, the SCOTUS ruled it Unconstitutional.:lol
-
Originally posted by NUKE
The US economy created over 2 million jobs each of the last 2 years. The unemployment rate has dipped to 4.9 %, more Americans own homes than ever before and we have gas prices down to about $2.20 a gallon.
No, it didn't. US governmental deficit, trade deficit and personal debt based on housing speculation misallocated way more than 2 million jobs.
If the Canadian government decided to run on (comparable) tens of billions of dollar deficit. They could "create" a multitude of jobs as well. But those jobs wouldn't be where the market demanded and it would hurt the economy.
Same thing with speculation. Any public could go further in personal debt hiring people to make more of whatever than the market demanded. But it would hurt the economy, as that labour would be misallocated. We have people stupidly trying to ride the housing bubble up here as well.
Originally posted by Bodhi
I always find that the best indicator of the economy is a T crane.
It depends on how they got there.
-
Originally posted by BlueJ1
Minimum wage just went up also.
Which is bad. It makes the businesses in that area with the increased minimum wage less conpetitive. Less people invest in the business, and that hurts the economy. The labourer might make more money, but their standard of living falls.
-
Originally posted by Thrawn
Which is bad. It makes the businesses in that area with the increased minimum wage less conpetitive. Less people invest in the business, and that hurts the economy. The labourer might make more money, but their standard of living falls.
Its Buffalo. Everything is bad.
Except the Sabres.
-
Originally posted by Thrawn
No, it didn't. US governmental deficit, trade deficit and personal debt based on housing speculation misallocated way more than 2 million jobs.
Total non farm employment:
Dec 2003, 146.9 million Jobs
Dec 2004, 148.2 million Jobs
Dec 2005, 150.2 million Jobs
Just how does "US governmental deficit, trade deficit and personal debt based on housing speculation" make 150.2<146.9 ?
-
He's from Canada...I think it must have something to do with the metric system.
-
I just bought a 35k dollar truck for 23k how is the economy bad or my standard of living falling? Don't tell me its because cars aren't selling Ford and GM are down but Dodge is up and imports are selling like mad.
Its all lies.
-
Originally posted by *NDM*JohnnyX
Its all lies.
Even yours?
-
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Total non farm employment:
Dec 2003, 146.9 million Jobs
Dec 2004, 148.2 million Jobs
Dec 2005, 150.2 million Jobs
Just how does "US governmental deficit, trade deficit and personal debt based on housing speculation" make 150.2<146.9 ?
It doesn't, but NUKE didn't just state the figures. He said that they ment that the US economy was doing well.
You have a town of 100 people. 10 are unemployed. The municiple government taxes the other 90, and hires 6 of the unemployed. 3 to dig holes, and 3 to fill them in.
This is bad for economy because the other 90 people have less money to buy the things they demand or to invest. If the other 90 had that money to spend on stuff or invest, then jobs would be created in order to meet that demand. What's more because labour has now become more scarce it has become more costly for companies to employ labour. This hurts the companies and increases unemployment.
It's worse if the government goes into debt and hires labour because they now have to pay interest on thier ****ing with the economy.
Job hires based personal debt to invest in speculation suck as well. The resultant product is surplus to the actual economic demand. Heck it's not even "need" economically. Demand is need with money to purchase it.
Job growth based on wise investment into sectors of the economy were their is demand that is not being met is good. Job growth based on socialist fallacies and people making poor financial decisions isn't.
PS: "Its Buffalo. Everything is bad.
Except the Sabres."
Said the same about the Sens...earlier in the season. ;)
-
Originally posted by *NDM*JohnnyX
I just bought a 35k dollar truck for 23k how is the economy bad or my standard of living falling?
How is the financial situation of one person at all indicitive of what is happening to economy of nation of hundreds of millions?
-
But Canada's fertility rate is down to 1.5, well below replacement rate
Salaam Alaikum, eh, hoser?
So many things to worry about............
-
Originally posted by Thrawn
How is the financial situation of one person at all indicitive of what is happening to economy of nation of hundreds of millions?
It's probably pretty accurate seeing as how I fit into the category of "white middle class worker" of which this country has a majority of. I look around, I see development, and I have friends around the country who say the same. There are problems, but it's barely a recession, it's no where near a depression.
I have no idea how Canadas economy is doing and I'm not going to speculate.
-
Originally posted by Bodhi
I have to agree that the economy is booming right along. I always find that the best indicator of the economy is a T crane. Before 2000, very few were up, now, I see many up in every city I travel through, now where is that money coming from?
Interesting point. Tons of them around here.
-
Originally posted by Thrawn
You have a town of 100 people. 10 are unemployed. The municiple government taxes the other 90, and hires 6 of the unemployed. 3 to dig holes, and 3 to fill them in.
According to the Office of Personnel Management, the total civilian labor force for the federal government was:
July 2005; 2,725,117
Jan 2005; 2,686,591
Jan 2004; 2,701,015
about a 24,000 increase from Jan '04 to July '05
4 million (+/-) take away 25,000 = 3,975,000
Fed gov't employment accounts for 0.6% of the job growth.
-
Originally posted by Urchin
1. What sort of jobs has the US economy created? There are only so many kids in the country that'll fill the burger-flipping jobs.
Not sure about the rest of the country, but Washington State went from 7.6% unemployment in 2003 (18 months after 9/11) to 5.2% unemployment, Boeing and Microsoft have been hiring like mad, and those jobs ain't burger flipping...
-
Thrawn would rather eat a mouthful of freshly dropped manure than say, admit, or hear anyone else say anything positive about the USA.
-
Originally posted by Urchin
1. What sort of jobs has the US economy created? There are only so many kids in the country that'll fill the burger-flipping jobs.
2. IIRC, most "home sales" now aren't new residences, they are investments. So while it might be accurate to say that wealthy Americans own more homes than ever before, I doubt it'd be accurate to say that more Americans own homes.
3. Yea, gas prices are friggin weird like that, huh?
On # 2 I'd say you are wrong and grossly innaccurate. While I'd agree investment purchasis are up they arent nywhere near the majority or "most" you claim
As for #1. the economy is strong and has grown and unemployment is down.
That in itself would indicate that its more then just kids flipping burgers and other menial paying jobs.
Maybe your upset we arent having the runaway type economy like in the 90s. I personally am happy we dont as the 90s economy was largely based on illusion
-
Economic growth here at home is anemic.
That is from the Republican party platform for the 1996 election.. I seem to remember a record economy in the 90's.
-
Originally posted by LePaul
Good news doesnt sell or draw viewers
When's the last time you sat and watched the nightly news on the big three, then got up feeling good about the world?
exactly. I mde this point on Thanksgiving her on another thread.
Go look up the headline stories on any of the major news outlets and count the negative stories and compair them to th amount of positive stories.
The News media no longer reports the news. They primarily report the bad news.
and if the news isnt bad enough they try to spin and create a story to make it worse.
Saw a classic example of this on CNN the other night.
They were interviewing a doctor who was at that coal mine incident where those 12 minors lost their lives and they were without question trying outright to get the doctor to say that there was a good possibility that the 12 were still alive even though they had been determined dead by the rescue teams and tht the doctor wasnt allowed down there to save them..
I was so disgusted I changed the channel
-
Originally posted by Thrawn
Which is bad. It makes the businesses in that area with the increased minimum wage less conpetitive. Less people invest in the business, and that hurts the economy. The labourer might make more money, but their standard of living falls.
actually in many cases it just make the prices of the goods and/or services the buisnesses provide go up.
I know speaking for myself and people I know anytime my costs go up I simply pass on the cost to the customer.
in the end the outcome is the same. because of the rise in min wage and the pass along in the end the labourer might make more. but he is still only able to buy what he did before because the costs have gone up.
This is why I never bought into the "tax the rich because they can afford it more" idea in the end they still make their money by passing their costs onto the littlle guy to make up for it so in the end the little guy is no better off then he was before and often worse. But hey he cant say he makes more money now. He just cant do anything more with it.
In any event min wage doesnt effect me as far as having workers goes as I've always paid more then minimum wage. and I pay what I think your worth to me reguardless of what min wage is.
If Im paying you $10 per hour and min wage goes up from $7 to $8 that doesnt mean your getting a $1 raise because as far as im concerned your still only worth $10 per hour to me untill I determine otherwise.
The companies with problems are the ones with alot of Min wage employees as well as alot of those making above min wage
-
Originally posted by midnight Target
That is from the Republican party platform for the 1996 election.. I seem to remember a record economy in the 90's.
Yes but largely based on illusion and overvalued stocks.
As soon as reality hit. the economy went in the toilet.
The economy in the 90s was good for sure. But the problem was is it was too good.
Had it not been as good. Had it been based more in realism it probably would have been a good economy for much longer.
-
Originally posted by *NDM*JohnnyX
I have no idea how Canadas economy is doing and I'm not going to speculate.
I'd even be willing to bet you dont care either.
Least not nearly as much as they seem to care about ours;)
-
Hey a strong neighboring economy only helps ours. Cheers to their economy! If they start hurting I may not get my Molson :(
-
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Yes but largely based on illusion and overvalued stocks.
As soon as reality hit. the economy went in the toilet.
The economy in the 90s was good for sure. But the problem was is it was too good.
Had it not been as good. Had it been based more in realism it probably would have been a good economy for much longer.
And our economy is booming partially due to a housing market bubble that will have the same effect. Point being, that pointing a finger at the party out of power just leaves 3 more pointing back atcha.
-
"...just leaves 3 more pointing back atcha."
I hate you.
-
Originally posted by Bodhi
I have to agree that the economy is booming right along. I always find that the best indicator of the economy is a T crane. Before 2000, very few were up, now, I see many up in every city I travel through, now where is that money coming from?
Even on our little rock in the middle of the pacific, there are lots of T cranes with their condo projects going up. There are about six 30+ story projects going up within a couple blocks of where I used to live (which was a 40 floor condo). In the central downtown business area, there are two more slated to start soon. We're glad we moved out of the main city before it gets even more crowded. In addition, everybody is tearing down their old homes and building brand new ones because of the low interest rates - around 5% versus the double digit 14-15% during the 90's. Gosh those rates would've hurt. Construction and related companies are busy - some won't even return your calls because they're already overbooked. I was supposed to get new rain gutters early last year. They came to measure, and never came back since (fortunately we were never charged anything). Unfortunately all this booming and increasing property values also sent our property taxes soaring. We've been in our single family home about a year and a half and our property tax is going up 20% in one year. :cry
-
Originally posted by midnight Target
And our economy is booming partially due to a housing market bubble that will have the same effect. Point being, that pointing a finger at the party out of power just leaves 3 more pointing back atcha.
Thing is. I never pointed any such finger.
Still the current housing bubble isnt nearly as large as the market bubble of the 90s. When it pops. it wont have nearly the same effect
-
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
According to the Office of Personnel Management, the total civilian labor force for the federal government was:
July 2005; 2,725,117
Jan 2005; 2,686,591
Jan 2004; 2,701,015
about a 24,000 increase from Jan '04 to July '05
4 million (+/-) take away 25,000 = 3,975,000
Fed gov't employment accounts for 0.6% of the job growth.
That's the number of people that explicitly work for the US federal government. It doesn't include all people working for US federal tax dollars.
Drediock,
"actually in many cases it just make the prices of the goods and/or services the buisnesses provide go up."
Right, which decreases standard of living because peoples purchasing power has decreased. And not only that...
"The companies with problems are the ones with alot of Min wage employees as well as alot of those making above min wage"
Right again, if minimum wage rises high enough, it just because non-viable to run a business that employees a number of minimum wage labours and people don't invest them or even take thier investment out of the company. Company folds and now people can't buy it's product.
Or more likely the company off shores it's labour and unemployment increases.
-
Originally posted by BlueJ1
From what Ive read, seen, and heard humans enjoy predicting their downfalls. And when they know they are wrong they dont admit it but just move on to another.
Holy Nobel Prize winner Batman.
:aok
-
:D
(http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/bomber/b52-bomb.jpg)
-
Originally posted by Thrawn
That's the number of people that explicitly work for the US federal government. It doesn't include all people working for US federal tax dollars.
Okay it seems you agree that the employee growth of the federal gov't didn't add much.
The GDP grew about 900 billion in those two years, and gov't spending grew from 2,292B to an estimated 2,567B accounting for 275 B of the 900B GDP growth (31%).
So the majority of the GDP growth was related to private sector rather than the budget growth.
So it follows that maybe 2/3 of the jobs created were outside of government spending as well.
-
Originally posted by Urchin
1. What sort of jobs has the US economy created? There are only so many kids in the country that'll fill the burger-flipping jobs.
2. IIRC, most "home sales" now aren't new residences, they are investments. So while it might be accurate to say that wealthy Americans own more homes than ever before, I doubt it'd be accurate to say that more Americans own homes.
3. Yea, gas prices are friggin weird like that, huh?
Hmm...in the 80's, ALL of Reagans' new jobs were 'hamburger flipper' jobs...but in the 90's, Clintons' WEREN'T, but in 2000-2008, Bush has managed to again figure out how to fully employ all the burger chains:rofl