Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: AZREAL on January 09, 2006, 07:02:33 AM
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How about adding the P39 Aircobra, russians used it and loved it for ground attack because of the 37mm cannon.
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yes we know. here is a tip: USE THE SEARCH BUTTON!!!! we all want this plane but the Devs are busy renovating old ones up to modern gaming stantdards.
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(http://img286.imageshack.us/img286/9757/p400patrf346kk.jpg)
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why does it seem every week a new guy comes in here and either: -
A) requests B-29
B) requests P-39
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Originally posted by Furball
why does it seem every week a new guy comes in here and either: -
A) requests B-29
B) requests P-39
Yet B-32 is always overlooked:rolleyes:
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yah! nobody cares about the Dominator.:cry
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Originally posted by Furball
why does it seem every week a new guy comes in here and either: -
A) requests B-29
B) requests P-39
Because there aren't enough American planes in AH yet?
Don't worry, they'll both be added. Eventually.
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B-32 looks ugly to me. Most american planes that looked ugly where not good at all. Most of the good looking ones where good.
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Bah just take the yak 9t. :furious
Save HTs time just to make us more 38s. :D
Instead give us the 38D with its 37mm. :t
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Originally posted by Hoarach
Instead give us the 38D with its 37mm. :t
That one existed on paper only. Dan showed that some time ago.
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Blixen, any story to that picture you posted?
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No p-39, we need like 10 more spitfires.
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Pretty sure we're set on Spitfires. Not as sure on Bf109s and pretty sure we need another Fw190 or two.
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Originally posted by Pooh21
No p-39, we need like 10 more spitfires.
Exactly!
10 more....lets see.... Hows this list?
Spit IB
Spit IIB
Spit LFVb
Spit LFVc
Spit VI
Spit VII
Spit XII
Spitfire F21 with the 4 20mm
Seafire III
Seafire XV
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die spitlovers, die.
Newfellers are learning from the masters :D (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=108692&highlight=airacobra)
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Originally posted by Blixen
(http://img286.imageshack.us/img286/9757/p400patrf346kk.jpg)
Looks like a P-400 to me...
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oh dont forget a few more Jugs and a b-17f or something
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hey i knows!!!!! why has nobody thought of this before!!!!!!!!
how about a b29 and a p39???!?!?!!
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Why not but Brewster first! :D
(http://www.savanne.org/ah/cobra1.jpg)
(http://www.savanne.org/ah/cobra2.jpg)
(http://www.savanne.org/ah/cobra3.jpg)
(http://www.savanne.org/ah/cobra4.jpg)
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"Suitable for Aroma Therapy"
WTF?
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Blixen, any story to that picture you posted?
p-39 from the 39th FS "Cobra In The Clouds"
based in the pacific C.O. of the 39th was also C.O.
of the 475th FG
the 39th was later upgraded to the first deliverd P-38`s in the Pacific
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and for the ride to your plane
............................. ............................. ............................. .........jeep
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By the looks of the door and how it opens for the P39, I think it would be hard to bail, out of that plane, cuz you either have to hold the door open, before sliding down the wing, or that door will just not stay open, and your stuck in a death box. How did P39 pilots bail out?
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The door was jettisonable.
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Chill out on the "Noobs" guys - this is a "WISHLIST" forum and they are putting their .2 cents in like everyone else. Besides not everyone "Haunts" the BBS like we do. :D
Actually, the P-39D would be the most "Practical" a/c to be added to AH next IMO. It could be used for both the Pacific and Russian-Front based set-ups as the aircraft was used heavily in both theaters.
The Soviet, Japanese & Italian plane sets have the biggest holes. They should get priority on the next aircraft to come out. Again IMHO, we have plenty of American stuff, Spitfires, 109's, 190's etc.
:aok
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Frankly, I'd also really love to see the P-39, since they meant much more to the Russians than anyone else. No doubt it'd be classified as an US fighter, since it is, but in terms of historical plane sets it has much more meaning with the VVS than other countries.
I'd really love to see it using Rechkalov's or Pokryshkin's markings. After all, the Russians were the highest scoring Allied aces, who combatted the Luftwaffe at the bloodiest battle grounds of the entire war.
The P-39 feels much more intense when it's got a red star on it, rather than the stars and bars IMO :)
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As for the B-29...
I don't want to see it in the MA, unless some measures are taken to stop the over bloated jabo wannabe buffing. A B-29 slipping in and spraying its entire payload all over the field at 3k... man, that makes people puke.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
As for the B-29...
I don't want to see it in the MA, unless some measures are taken to stop the over bloated jabo wannabe buffing. A B-29 slipping in and spraying its entire payload all over the field at 3k... man, that makes people puke.
Historically, B-29's area bombed Tokyo from 7-10K & B-24's hit Ploesti at tree top high - but I agree with you, it's bad enough now watching Lancs come in and pork the field.
A past thread had the answer in my opinion - BARAGE BALLONS would solve this problem very quickly and wouldn't be too hard to set up.
(http://www.airartists.co.uk/airartists16.jpg)
:aok
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Originally posted by Kweassa
As for the B-29...
I don't want to see it in the MA, unless some measures are taken to stop the over bloated jabo wannabe buffing. A B-29 slipping in and spraying its entire payload all over the field at 3k... man, that makes people puke.
You don't think the likely 450-600 perk point cost for a formation of B-29s would have that effect?
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The Soviet, Japanese & Italian plane sets have the biggest holes.
what about the french fighters
we are forgetting the battle of france senerios
i think this bird would be great
(http://www.warbirdphotos.net/aviapix/Fighters/D520/d520_2.jpg)
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France was out of the war the second it started. They caved like... like.. well like the French!
The bulk majority of the massive french air fleet was obsolete, and the few D520s available were captured by the LW and used as "advanced trainers" being deemed inferior to the 109Ds/Es in use at the time.
We need no french fighters because they played no role in the war, essentially. No offense to French folks on the board, but it's true.
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We need no french fighters because they played no role in the war, essentially. No offense to French folks on the board, but it's true
always the negative 1:rolleyes:
they did play a big role but were mearly out numbered by the germans
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French Fighters only saw action for a couple of months before their country was over run. Then for a few weeks during the Invasion of N. Africa. Not much combat time compaired to the others and to the type of set-ups for the CT.
In the MA the D.520 (Best of the French Fighters) would probabily end up being a "Hangar Queen" because it's performance and armament are below the Hurricane I & II we have now.
BTW, only a handfull of D.520's saw Combat during the Battle of France. The main French fighter was the M.S. 406 - which had even worse performance. The Curtiss HAWK 75 saw more action also.
Be nice to have them, but as I said, IMO there are many other holes that need to be filled first.
:aok
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Dewoitine D.520
The Dewoitine D.520 was perhaps the best fighter available to the Armee de l'Air during the German invasion of France in May of 1940. It was yet another example of a combat aircraft which flew on both sides during World War 2.
The D.520 was a single-seat, single-engined low-winged fighter powered by a liquid-cooled Hispano-Suiza 12Y Vee-type engine. It was designed in November 1936 by a team led by Emile Dewoitine, who was at that time the director of a private design office. It was designed in response to a specification issued in 1937 for a single seat fighter. It was designed around the 900hp Hispano-Suiza 12Y-21 liquid-cooled engine, and was to have a maximum speed of 323 mph (520 km/hr). The designation D.520 was assigned, the 520 standing for the maximum speed in kilometers per hour. Provisions were made for the future installation of an appreciably more powerful 1200 hp engine then under development by Hispano-Suiza.
Dewoitine's design office was later absorbed by the Societe Nationale de Construction Aeronatiques du Midi (SNCAM), and he was named deputy managing director of the firm. The first of three prototypes (the D.520-01) flew on October 2, 1938 at Toulouse-Francazal with Marcel Doret at the controls. It was powered by a Hispano-Suiza 12Y-21 liquid-cooled engine rated at 890 hp. For the preliminary trials, the D.520-01 had a two-bladed wooden propeller and the cockpit canopy was removed. The engine was cooled by a set of radiators which were submerged underneath the wing. This arrangement was found to produce excessive drag which limited maximum speed to 298 mph and the radiator was later moved to a position underneath the fuselage. In addition, the vertical tail was increased in area to correct some lateral instability. After a wheel-up landing on November 28, the aircraft was re-engined with a 12Y-29 powerplant and was fitted with a "jet" exhaust manifold which replaced the former separate pipes. These modifications enabled the aircraft to achieve its design maximum speed of 520 km/hr. The D.520-01 achieved 513mph in a dive on February 8, 1939.
The second prototype (D.520-02) flew for the first time on January 28, 1939. It had a completely redesigned vertical tail, a backwards-sliding cockpit canopy, and an armament of one 20mm cannon firing through the propeller hub and two machine guns mounted in gondolas underneath the wing. The D.520-02 was transferred to the Centre d'Essais du Materiel Aerien (CEMA) at Villacoublay. When re-engined with a 12Y-31 engine in place of its original 12Y-29, it achieved a maximum speed of 341 mph at 17,060 feet, and could reach an altitude of 26,240 feet in 12 min 53 sec.
It was soon joined by the third prototype (D.520-03), which flew for the first time on March 15, 1939. It differed in having a different type of supercharger and a steerable, non-retractable tailwheel replacing the tail-skid.
Flight trials at CEMA went fairly well, and an initial contract for 200 production machines to be powered by the 12Y-31 engine (later replaced by the 12Y-45) was issued in March of 1939. A contract for an additional 600 D.520 fighters was issued in June of 1939. This was later reduced to 510 in July. On the outbreak of war in September of 1939, a new contract brought the total of D.520s on order to 1280, with the production rate to be 200 machines per month from May 1940 onward.
Successive amendments to this order on April 19, 1940 called for a total of 2250 machines, with the production rate being 350 per month. In addition, 120 machines were ordered by the Aeronavale in January 1940.
The first production D.520 flew on November 2, 1939. It was powered by the 830 hp Hispano-Suiza 12Y-31 engine and was armed with two 7.5-mm machine guns in housings underneath the wings. It had a curved, one-piece windshield. The fuselage was about 20 inches longer than that of the prototypes, and the engine cowling was modified. Two additional fuel talks were fitted in the wing leading edge. Armor plate was fitted behind the pilot's seat.
The second production machine had a 910 hp Hispano-Suiza 12Y-45 engine with a supercharger and an electric 3-bladed propeller. It was armed with a 20-mm cannon firing through the propeller hub and four 7.5-mm machine guns in the wings. The curved, one-piece windshield was replaced by windshield containing an optically-flat panel.
As an alternative to the Hispano-Suiza engine, it was decided in October of 1939 to fit a Rolls-Royce Merlin III engine. Although the project was cancelled in November (the Merlin being allocated instead to the Amiot 353/356 bomber), the 41st D.520 was experimentally fitted with the Rolls-Royce Merlin III engine. The wing armament was omitted. The aircraft was designated D.521, and flew for the first time on February 9, 1940. A maximum speed of 354 mph was attained.
The aircraft was later converted back to standard D.520 configuration.
The Groupe de Chasse I/3 was the first unit to get the D.520, receiving its first planes in January of 1940. At first, the D.520s issued to this Groupe were unarmed training versions, and GC I/3 was assigned the task of shaking out the bugs. In April and May, GC I/3 was issued with 34 "war-cleared" D.520s at Cannes-Mandelieu. The D.520 was very popular with its pilots, who praised it for the sensitiveness of its controls, the simplicity of its control panel, and the ease of recovery from a spin.
In comparative trials on April 21, 1940 at CEMA at Orleans-Bricy against a captured Bf 109E-3, tests showed that the German machine had a 20 mph speed advantage owing to its higher power. However, the D.520 had superior maneuverability owing to its superb handling properties.
On May 10, 1940, when Germany invaded France, only GC I/3 was equipped with the D.520, a total of 79 D.520s being taken on charge. GC I/3 was hastily thrown into action, the D.520 meeting the Luftwaffe for the first time on May 13, shooting down three Henschel Hs 126s and one Heinkel He 111 without loss to themselves. GC II/2, GC III/3, GC III/6 and GC II/7 were later to receive the D.520, and all took part in the battle for France. A naval unit, the 1o Flottile de Chasse, was also equipped with the D.520. GC II/6 and GC III/7 had also converted to the D.520, but had been formed too late to see any action. By the time of the Franco-German Armistice of June 25, 1940, 437 D.520s had been built, and 351 of these had been delivered to operational units. The Armee de l'Air D.520s gave a good account of themselves, and gave better than they got. By the time that the battle for France had come to an end, D.520-equipped squadrons had accounted for 108 confirmed kills and 39 probables. A total of 85 were lost on operations, with 54 of these losses being due to direct enemy action.
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As French resistance to the German advance began to collapse, between the 18th and 20th of June, GC I/3, II/3, III/3, III/6, and II/7 flew their aircraft to North Africa. 153 machines remained behind in unoccupied France. Three D.520s of GC III/7 escaped to Britain and were incorporated into the Free French 1st Fighter Group formed at RAF Odiham.
After the Armistice, the German victors allowed the Vichy government to maintain a reduced air force. Under the terms of the agreement, no D.520 unit was to remain in service on the French mainland, and all surviving D.520 aircraft in France were dispersed and stored. In North Africa, GC I/3, II/3, III/6, and III/7 as well as Aeronavale Escadrille 1AC (the former AC1) were allowed to remain in service with their D.520s.
In April 1941, the German authorities agreed to allow the resumption of aircraft manufacture in unoccupied France. When SNCAM was dissolved, its plants were absorbed by S.N.C.A. du Sud-Est (SNCASE). The Vichy Air Force adopted the D.520 as its standard fighter, and the German Armistice Commission permitted production of the D.520 to resume at Toulouse-Blagnac. 550 D.520s were ordered on June 23rd. They were to replace all other single-seat fighters in service in Vichy, and in a second stage of the program, the D.520 was to equip newly-formed units. By the middle of 1943, it was anticipated that the Vichy government would be able to field an Armistice Air Force equipped with 17 D.520-equipped Groupes with 442 front-line aircraft, three Aeronavale Escadrilles with 37 aircraft, plus 3 training units with 13 aircraft.
The first batch of 22 aircraft was delivered in August of 1941. In 1942, the D.520 number 465 was flown with an improved Hispano-Suiza 12Y-45 engine, a modified radiator, and inboard hinged wheel doors. By December 31, 1942, 349 aircraft had been delivered, 197 of which were powered by the 12Y-49 engine. This brought total production of the D.520 to 775 aircraft.
By October of 1942, nine Vichy Groupes de Chasse had been equipped with the D.520. In addition, the 1o Flotille de Chasse had been equipped with the D.520. Vichy D.520s saw some action against British forces in the Levant and had escorted Vichy bombers in an attack on Gibraltar.
GC III/6 and II/3 took part in operations in Syria in June-July 1941. They were later joined by Escadrille 1AC. During that operation, they saw combat against RAF aircraft. GC III/6 was credited with 19 confirmed kills and four probables. GC II/2 was credited with three confirmed kills and two probables. Esc. IAC was credited with eight kills. Vichy D.520 losses totaled 32, with 11 being shot down, 12 lost in accidents, 7 being destroyed in the ground, and two being abandoned in Syria when the fighter units flew back to French North Africa.
At the time of the Operation Torch Anglo-American landings in North Africa in November of 1942, 234 D.520s were in unoccupied France (of which 93 were in service), 173 were in North Africa, and 30 were in Senegal. French-based D.520 units comprised GCs I/1, II/1, and III/9 (which had recently received the D.520 in place of its Bloch 152s), and I/2. GC I/2 escaped with 24 aircraft to Meknes on November 9 to avoid capture by German forces. In North Africa, D.520s equipped GCs II/3, III/3 (formerly I/3, its designation being changed at German request since three of its pilots had fled to Gibraltar on October 14, 1941), III/6, II/7, and II/5 Aeronavale IF Flotille (comprising Escadrilles 1AC and 2AC) was also based in Africa.
The Allied landings gave rise to fratricidal air battles in which the D.520s of GC III/3 and II/5 were involved, as well as those of 1F Flotille and the Hawk 75s of GC I/5 and II/5. Losses were heavy on both sides. The Aeronavale lost 19 Dewoitines and seven Martin bombers, and the Armistice Air Force lost 16 D.520s and Hawks. Allied air forces lost 44 aircraft during these clashes.
In response to the Allied landings in North Africa, German forces invaded Unoccupied France in November of 1942. On November 27th, all French armed forces were disbanded and all existing D.520s were seized. This included 246 D.520s serving with Vichy units, plus 169 D.520s in various stages of completion at SNCASE.
Some of these seized D.520s were transferred to two Luftwaffe fighter training units (JG-103 and JG-105). They were highly praised by Luftwaffe crews for their exceptional maneuverability. However, the accident rate was fairly high owing to the great differences between it and the German aircraft to which the pilots were accustomed.
Sixty D.520s were transferred to the Regia Aeronautica, and were operated primarily as fighter trainers by Gruppi 13, 22, 24, and 167. About a hundred D.520s were issued to the Bulgarian Air Force, which used them operationally against the US 9th Air Force. Most of these were lost in combat. The Rumanian Air Force operated a small batch of D.520s in combat on the Eastern Front, flying them alongside that air force's Bf 109s.
Upon the liberation of Southwestern France, a French FFI (Forces Francaises de l'Interieur) fighter Groupe was formed with D.520s that had been captured from the retreating enemy. This unit took part in attacks on retreating German units and provided escort for Allied bombers and strafed artillery positions. In March of 1945, this unit reequipped with the Spitfire Vb, and its D.520s were transferred to GC B I/18 and to a training unit. About 55 D.520s were recovered from the Luftwaffe as the Allied forces advanced eastward, which were later reinforced by another 20 which were brought back from North Africa.
In postwar years, the D.520 continued to serve with training units in the revived Armee de l'Air. Several were converted to two-seat configuration under the designation D.520 DC (for "double commande"). The last unit to fly the D.520 was the Escadrille de Presentation de l'Armee de l'Air (EPAA), which had previously flown Yak 3s brought back to France from the Soviet Union by the Normandie-Niemen regiment. The last D.520 was finally withdrawn from service in September of 1953.
Four D.520s are known to exist ca 1966. No. 408 belongs to the Musee de l'Air, No. 603 is on display at the Ecole de l'Air, No. 650 (a DC) is on display at Etampes-Mondesir, and No. 862 is on display at the Luxeuil-Saint Sauveur Air Base.
Specification of the D.520:
One Hispano-Suiza 12Y-45 twelve-cylinder Vee liquid cooled engine rated at 930 hp for takeoff. Maximum speed 329 mph at 19,685 feet, 280 mph at sea level. Initial climb rate 2362 feet per minute. Time to 13,120 feet was 4 minutes. Service ceiling 36,090 feet, normal range was 620 miles and maximum range was 777 miles. Dimensions: wingspan 33 feet 5 1/2 inches, length 28 feet 8 1/2 inches, height 8 feet 5 inches, wing area 171.684 square feet. Weights: 4608 pounds empty, 6129 pounds maximum loaded. Armed with one 20-mm Hispano-Suiza 404 cannon with 60 rounds mounted between the engine cylinder banks and firing through the propeller spinner, plus four 7.5-mm MAC 1934 M 39 machine guns in the wings with 500 rpg.
Sources:
The Dewoitine 520, Raymond Danel, Aircraft in Profile, 1966.
Dewoitine D.520C.1
Description
Role Day fighter
Crew one, pilot
Dimensions
Length 28 ft 8 in (8.7 m)
Wingspan 33 ft 6 in (10.2 m)
Height 8 ft 5 in (2.6 m)
Wing area 172 ft² (16 m²)
Weights
Empty 4,608 lb (2,090 kg)
Maximum take-off 6,129 lb (2,780 kg)
Powerplant
Engines Hispano-Suiza 12Y-45
Power 930 hp (690 kW)
Performance
Maximum speed 329 mph (529 km/h)
Combat range
Ferry range 777 mile (1,250 km)
Service ceiling
Armament
Guns 1x 20 mm cannon
4x 7.5 mm machine guns
Bombs
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Is it really necessary to blast some poor guy who just posted the first time? Isn't he entitled to ask his question? What's wrong with rehashing something again...maybe other folks haven't participated in the discussion, and might like to?
What the hell is sooooo troubling about seeing a question repeated? Does it somehow cost someone money or something? This is a blinkin' wishlist...so lettem' wish!
I wanna P-61. I wanna P-61! Now...someone tell me how we don't have night, and it's a night fighter. I didn't know that.
I still wanna P-61. Neener, neener, neener...
BTW, AZREAL...would make a cool ground-attack fighter, esp a new GV threat.. but I imagine defending yourself would be a challenge. Always thought the Airacobra was a good looker, tho...
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Actually the Soviets didn't use the P-39 in ground attack role - they had the IL2's for that. Airacobra was used as a fighter...
And posting the same questions/requests again and again gets boring, maybe even for the hard working people at HTC - at least I'd get bored with the same requests every week...
And while I'm posting here... How about adding the Brewster 239 to AH with the P39? :)
edit: Blixen, Jester and Krusty: The Finnish Air Force used M.S.406's (135 victories, 18 losses) and Curtiss Hawks (190 1/3 victories / 15 losses) still in 1944...
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Pannzer, that's because they were desperate Sons of B----es and had nothing else to fly and nothing else to lose. Plus a lot of the kills in the area of Finland were transports/bombers.
Re: D520: Hell a hurricane mk1 would outrun it on the deck. It's got less horsepower than a p40 but just as much weight. And ask the Italians about aircraft that were "lovely to fly" and "very manuverable" -- most of their open cockpit jobs were described like that, but they were STILL hopelessly outclassed by every other plane in the air.
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Originally posted by Krusty
Plus a lot of the kills in the area of Finland were transports/bombers.
That's a myth too, as with the B-239. The fighters (MS406, Hawk75, B-239) weren't fast enough to catch the bombers (which were PE-2's mostly), and I don't know why the fighters should've met transports in 1942-43. Most of the kills were fighters - IIRC...
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http://www.warbirdforum.com/scores.htm - for the Brewster, didn't find any good score tables for the Morane or Curtiss Hawk (internetwise). But all the books I have (or have read) seem to agree that most of the enemy planes were fighters until 1944 - when the Messerschmitt squadrons got most of the kills.
(http://www.llv32.org/valokuvat/suursaaren_pudotukset.jpg)
Statistics from 2 days in March 1942, FR's are Fokker D.XXI's, BW's are Brewsters and CU's are Curtiss Hawk 75's.
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D.520s performed respectably in Syria against the RAF, Hurricanes included & the Bulgarian AF was quiped with a good number of D.520s for defense of Ploesti. I think HTC, to be a finiancial success in the long term will inevitably need to tap into the vastly underrepresented Bulgarian market
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Well sure, the brewster can get fighter kills, when that fighter is so obsolete it was only new in the Spanish Civil War! I-16s and I-153s?!?! lol those don't count :P Even the Brewster is leaps and bounds ahead of those.
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I-16 entered service in 1932 as I recall. It was old by the time the Spanish Civil war happened. The I-16 simply happened to be the most advanced fighter of its day, so it aged well.
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Krusty.
STFU !
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oh please mipoikel. It's one thing to want a plane, but it's another thing to glorify a plane past it's real capabilities, two planes in question that this happens a LOT for are the Brewster and the P39.
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Krusty did u even read my 2 post`s D.520`s were used by several differnt
countries during and even after the war
its climb rate is remarkable and will out manuever most planes
and 329 mph is qite fast in ww2 era
brewster was also used by the americans was a slow durable fighter
as for any variant of the P-39 it was a very good plane used in every theater
try doing some research b4 u open ur negativity mouth and spew insulting
and bogus info
let me be the first to challenge u to a duel if and when these plane arrive
i promise u i will open ur eyes to their worth in adding......end my rant on the bbs negative leader
Krusty Qoute Of The Year
We need no french fighters because they played no role in the war, essentially. No offense to French folks on the board, but it's true
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I'm blunt and I oversimplify, but that does not negate the tone of truth in what I say.
Sure D.520s served, but the Bulgarians flew in the war too! Doesn't mean they were anything but a token force. I mean this on the grand scale of the entire war, you see, and not the individual efforts micro-scale.
When you consider WW2's air forces as a whole, France wasn't present.
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Originally posted by Krusty
I'm blunt and I oversimplify, but that does not negate the tone of truth in what I say.
Sure D.520s served, but the Bulgarians flew in the war too! Doesn't mean they were anything but a token force. I mean this on the grand scale of the entire war, you see, and not the individual efforts micro-scale.
When you consider WW2's air forces as a whole, France wasn't present.
Your argument doesn't wash for the P39 Krusty. Used throughout the war in large numbers in every theater of the war outside of by the USAAF from England.
As posted before, the 350th FG was flying the 39 in combat in the MTO into August of 1944 in a ground attack role.
Within the framework of the low alt Tac war that the MA is, the P39 would perform well as it wouldn't be expected to be fighting at alt. Down low the 39 held it's own against the LW.
Represetative French AF aircraft from 1939-40 would be a nice addition as well for scenario use etc.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Pretty sure we're set on Spitfires. Not as sure on Bf109s and pretty sure we need another Fw190 or two.
Still think eventually we'll get -
The 'old' V back as a clipped 1943 Vc (with uber boost)
XII
Perhaps F.21 for 1945.
Krusty - I would suggest the Ta-152 has set the standard for how low a plane had be in production (67 manufactured) to be included in AH2.
Thats produced, how many actually saw combat?
All the "H's" were grounded before the end of the war, only 2 "C's" were still flying at the end of the war.
So I would say anything over 67 is "fair game" for inclusion.
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Back to the idea of the P-39, frankly I'd rather see the improved P-63 KingCobra myself. The made plenty of them (the russians bought like 2,400), and for you folks who like the French Colors, the free-french air force even had 300 of the P-63s operating.
EagleDNY
$.02
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I wonder if western Europe had rolled over like Austria & Czechoslovakia did, could the Battle of Britain have gone differently? What were LW losses in May-June 1940?
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Guppy, perhaps so, but I still feel folks that shout for a P39 will be sorely disappointed in how it flies WHEN they get it (i am sure we'll get it some day).
Kev: I wasn't talking about scarcity so much really, but you've got a point.
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CC Krusty -
I've always thought for the 3 major planesets (US, UK, German) there should be a MINIMUM level set for what would constitute in-service or even production.
I guess the minimum limit for production at the moment is 67 (Ta-152).
If there were set limits it would prevent half the threads asking for planes that are as rare as rocking horse poopoo. (not suggesting it applies to P39, meant in general).
This would have to given a lot of leeway for other planesets though.
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I guess the minimum limit for production at the moment is 67 (Ta-152).
The "minimum limit" is;
1) not experimental or prototype, but a production plane
2) officially started service as a squadron fighter
3) historical significance and represantativeness, or even symbolic value
4) in-game need
Though HT or Pyro never officially drew a line, judging by their past comments in the boards the above four conditions seem to be what is currently standing with AH.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
The "minimum limit" is;
1) not experimental or prototype, but a production plane
2) officially started service as a squadron fighter
3) historical significance and represantativeness, or even symbolic value
4) in-game need
Meteor Mk.III!!
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No chance its RAF.
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Originally posted by Karnak
You don't think the likely 450-600 perk point cost for a formation of B-29s would have that effect?
Why on earth would it be perked so heavily? The service ceiling was 4K LOWER than the B-17
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Originally posted by Mr No Name
Why on earth would it be perked so heavily? The service ceiling was 4K LOWER than the B-17
Speed, payload, range, defensive fire..gee..have no idea why it would be
perked heavily :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by EagleDNY
Back to the idea of the P-39, frankly I'd rather see the improved P-63 KingCobra myself. The made plenty of them (the russians bought like 2,400), and for you folks who like the French Colors, the free-french air force even had 300 of the P-63s operating.
EagleDNY
$.02
The Soviets didn't buy anything...They were GIVEN vast amounts of equipment, material and food. If you research the type and volume of lend-lease "stuff" sent to the USSR, you will be astounded.
Here's some examples of what the USA supplied to the Soviets:
77,900 Jeeps
151,000 light trucks
202,000 2 1/2 ton trucks
956,000 miles of telephone cable
380,000 field phones
35,000 command radio sets
99% of all locomotives used
95% of all railroad rolling stock used
95% of all railroad rails and switches
70% of all avgas of 100 octane or higher
Enough food to feed one daily meal to every soldier that served during the entire war.
This list is huge. Critical steels and rare metals, the vast majority of machine tools and manufacturing equipment. Enough M4 Shermans to fully equip two full armored divisions.
I haven't even mentioned aircraft, or medical supplies, or gun powders and explosives... The US manufactured and delivered 495 million rounds of Soviet small arms ammunition.
The USA basically supplied the Soviets with their industrial base for the first 10 years of the cold war.
Britain contributed as well, but only a small fraction of what the US sent over.
Like I said, research the incredible volume of "stuff" given to the Soviets and you will find it simply jaw dropping.
My regards,
Widewing
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Need a D520 with accordion music for engine sounds. Model the pilot with a funny little beret. Nose art could be "Run Away!, Run Away!"
-MI-
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The Nene jet was a pretty spiffy gift
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The P-39 Airacobra would be my top choice for a new plane.
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I agree.
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Definitely the P-39. Was used in South Pacific, the Mediterranean/North Africa, and the Eastern Front. Models from P-39D through Q, plus the P-400. Lots of skins possible on an aircraft that would probably perform much better in AH than it did in real life
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Originally posted by hardtack
Lots of skins possible on an aircraft that would probably perform much better in AH than it did in real life
You base this opinion on??????
Bronk
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Originally posted by Furball
why does it seem every week a new guy comes in here and either: -
A) requests B-29
B) requests P-39
I dont believe he is a new guy. I believe Azreal is GUNS06 :D
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Originally posted by hardtack
Definitely the P-39....
...would probably perform much better in AH than it did in real life
It DID perform well in real life. P-39 was the best fighter the soviets had before Yaks and La's appeared in 1943. Some of the Allied's highest scoring aces flew P-39s EXCLUSIVELY.
http://www.acepilots.com/planes/soviet_p39_airacobra.html
Don't buy in to the arguement that P-39 was only used as a TANK BUSTER on the eastern front. P-39 regiments in the east front often tangled with some of the best german squadrons.
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Lots of combat in AH takes place below 10K - I think the P-39's performance dropped off markedly above 15K. The P-39Q was a 376 mph aircraft with a 3750 fpm rate of climb - not a worldbeater but pretty respectable. In real life, jamming of the 37mm cannon was a known problem - but this would not be modelled in AH, so it should have excellent firepower for taking down ground targets and probably brutal snapshots in MA furballs, if the ballistics aren't too difficult to master. It's airframe was known for toughness and durability as well.
I assume lots of skins based on service from 1941 in at least 3 different theaters. No doubt the history buffs could find many with interesting paint schemes and nosearts.
In terms of number produced, years employed and its worldwide usage (Russia - North Africa, Italy, to South Pacific), the P-39 may be the most significant Allied fighter not yet in AH, I think.
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I would ike the p39 too....fyi we dug up a year old thread
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Originally posted by Slash27
Yet B-32 is always overlooked:rolleyes:
AND TEH B25!!!!!!THE STAR OF WWII, DROPPED THE 1st BOMB IN TOYKO
they came in like this:
:noid