Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: StarOfAfrica2 on January 11, 2006, 04:31:56 PM
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Not sure I'd call this "Reborn", more like "aborted halfway through delivery". But then I rarely agree with what Detroit comes up with these days.
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/01/09/debut-of-the-chevrolet-camaro-concept/
Debuting at the 2006 Detroit Auto Show, I believe the car is slated for 2009 production?
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It looks like a mustang?????
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GM has not made a final committment to build it, and if they do, you can bet they will maul the concept car look when the bean counters demand the fenders from the Saturn, the bumpers from the Geo, and the doors from the Alero be used.
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So ............ they are remaking the Fiero then? :)
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Never liked the side vents on the '69. Dont like them much on that one either.
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Dodge did a way better job with the Chalenger and Ford did a better job with the Stang.
It Kinda looks like an old Camaro, but they took a few good lines from the original and messed it all up making it look like a fat japanese animation parody of the real thing.
If I was going to buy one of the three retro pony cars it would be the Chalenger first, then a stang, and then this... maybe.
I predict GM will price it higher then the other two. I bet it will perfom better over all. I also bet it won't sell as well if they do make it.
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And yeah, thats what I thought. It looks like a Mustang / Charger. Granted the late 60s and early 70s mustangs DID rather resemble Camaros, so perhaps turnabout is fair play now. But Dodge already copied the Mustang with the Charger, do we really need another one? I was as sad to see the Camaro go as anyone, but surely they can do better than this. That thing is just plain smurfy.
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What skuzzy said. It won't look like that concept when it hits production - but it will be "based on" it. I hope they put some slope into the hood; the high-shouldered flat look was cool in the 300C and Cadillac line, but it's getting overdone now.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
GM has not made a final committment to build it, and if they do, you can bet they will maul the concept car look when the bean counters demand the fenders from the Saturn, the bumpers from the Geo, and the doors from the Alero be used.
Yeah if they make it they will find a way to mess it up.
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Actually, it looks like a perfect cross between the new Charger and the new Mustang.
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The only responder on the blog page I agreed with. Most of them were creaming their pants over that thing.
Yawn. Late to the party, GM is simply teasing us. Robert Lutz and his gang are truth challenged individuals and will water down this concept to the point that it will look more like a Pinto or Vega than it will this concept. I've learned that whenever a GM executive promises us a car like the concept, HE IS LYING.
Plus, this is a dull vehicle from the word go. It has none of the charisma of the Challenger, and isn't particularly attractive.
I expected more based upon the hype. Once again, GM takes the lazy road instead of the high one.
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Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
The only responder on the blog page I agreed with. Most of them were creaming their pants over that thing.
Sadly that guy is right. When it comes out if will prolly be a front wheel drive POS based on the Cobalt. Or another holden thing with a Camaro badge lol.
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Its GM
Professional Grade Engineering. Followed by record breaking recalls.
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I kinda like it... but it just seems so unoriginal after what Ford and Dodge have done.
Personally, I'd like to see them do a no **** retro Camaro with 90-95% of the body style from a 68-69 rather than the 50-60% that we see typically. Same goes for Mustangs, Challengers, GTO, etc.
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Yuk ... :huh Looks like one of those late 90s boxy caddy. I do love the Mustang and the Chaleenger.
So we have Chevy, ford, dodge ... missing Pontiac. Since I haven't liked anything Pontiac since the 70s, it's going to be uggly.:furious
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I prefer this one myself. (http://popularhotrodding.com/features/0312phr_fifthgen_04_z.jpg)
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Originally posted by Cobra412
I prefer this one myself. (http://popularhotrodding.com/features/0312phr_fifthgen_04_z.jpg)
Thats slightly better but to curvy.
The 1967 and 68 Camaro's are a work of art. I am with Sandman, make it 90% like the original body and pack a good suspesion and motor in it.
The car GM ever made that was better looking then the 67 and 68 camaro's was the 68 and 69 GTO. The 70 and a half firebire and Camaro are close though.
(http://www.police.uci.edu/images/carshow/2002/68_Camaro_RS_Sutherland.jpg)
(http://usaclassiccars.com/images/files/68camaro_327640_4.jpg)
Those are lines that do not need to be "improved"
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GM gets it wrong yet again.
I wonder which will happen first...they fire all of their design teams, or go bankrupt
J_A_B
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beltline's too high. a problem shared by 98% of late model domestic cars.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Thats slightly better but to curvy.
The 1967 and 68 Camaro's are a work of art. I am with Sandman, make it 90% like the original body and pack a good suspesion and motor in it.
The car GM ever made that was better looking then the 67 and 68 camaro's was the 68 and 69 GTO. The 70 and a half firebire and Camaro are close though.
Those are lines that do not need to be "improved"
I like the one Cobra posted, but I like this idea more...and throw a new-fangled interior in it ta boot.
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Yeah, modernise everything BUT the body.
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Yet another retro car.
Looks like they hit a new Mustang or one of their late 60's models with an ugly stick.
Muscle cars are supposed to be a tool that high school senoirs use to get laid, not for baby boomer senior citizens to haul their depends home from costco. The fiero may have been a dental assistant-mobile, but at least it was a bit fresh. I'm betting all the creativity & talent at the US auto makers are in the truck & SUV divisions
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Even in red that new camero doesnt scream trailer trash, or mullet
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by the time they build it it'll be powered by grass clippings and smell like **** when yah floor it.
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Originally posted by Cobra412
I prefer this one myself. (http://popularhotrodding.com/features/0312phr_fifthgen_04_z.jpg)
I perfur that one too .
the concept camaro really needs the '69 rs style taillights
the dash and console are cool but it really needs a "Wood wheel"
The 60's cars always had the Coolest tail lights ... (I love my '66 gto's lights )
btw gm will sell every retro camaro they can build .... its way over due .
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Originally posted by Pooh21
Even in red that new camero doesnt scream trailer trash, or mullet
It would probably help if you park it in front of a house trailer and give it a few months to let the weeds grow through.
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Originally posted by Heretik
beltline's too high. a problem shared by 98% of late model domestic cars.
Blame that on Ralph Nader and his door anti-impact beams.
Look, I've read these threads on all sorts of message boards, and here is my take....
This isn't 1969. There are different things fueling this current ponycar war. People have different tastes now. It's a v8 RWD coupe. That's all I care about. Dodge and Ford are making them too now. It's not a carbon copy, nor will it ever be. Blame Dodge for making a 4 door Charger. Ignore the fact it's a better car all around then the original. Oh no, I don't like the new Mustang. Too bad it's the fastest ever. I'm sure this Camaro will also outperform its older brothers. The Challenger is the same.
Take out the sheer dominance in performance of the new cars. Add in heated seats. Satellite radio. ABS. Better gas milage. Shall I continue?
Adjusted for inflation these cars are just as affordable as the old ones. They are just better in every aspect now.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
GM has not made a final committment to build it, and if they do, you can bet they will maul the concept car look when the bean counters demand the fenders from the Saturn, the bumpers from the Geo, and the doors from the Alero be used.
I bet you are more right than you think on this one:(
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Originally posted by J_A_B
GM gets it wrong yet again.
I wonder which will happen first...they fire all of their design teams, or go bankrupt
J_A_B
:aok
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Originally posted by *NDM*JohnnyX
Look, I've read these threads on all sorts of message boards, and here is my take....
This isn't 1969. There are different things fueling this current ponycar war. People have different tastes now. It's a v8 RWD coupe. That's all I care about. Dodge and Ford are making them too now. It's not a carbon copy, nor will it ever be. Blame Dodge for making a 4 door Charger. Ignore the fact it's a better car all around then the original. Oh no, I don't like the new Mustang. Too bad it's the fastest ever. I'm sure this Camaro will also outperform its older brothers. The Challenger is the same.
Take out the sheer dominance in performance of the new cars. Add in heated seats. Satellite radio. ABS. Better gas milage. Shall I continue?
Adjusted for inflation these cars are just as affordable as the old ones. They are just better in every aspect now.
Sure its great they built a concept for a RWD V8 car. It aint on a production line yet. The ONLY reason its RWD now is ............... thats what people WANT. They know damn well they'll never get interest up from the camaro buying public in a FWD car, no matter how well it performs or how good it looks.
I dont hear anyone complaining about the new Mustang. IMO they were the only ones that got it right! It looks very much like the car that inspired it. Well, include the new Challenger too. Thats a sweet ride, and looks very much like the original also. With the success of the Mustang, and the hype over the new Challenger, you would think GM would have gotten the hint. Apparently you didnt either. No musclecar fan wants to drive a moon-buggy.
As far as "a better car all around than the original," thats debateable. Sure it handles better. So does a Honda Civic. Take a 67-69 Camaro, gut it, put a modern engine in it with a modern drive train and braking system and an updated interior, and you pretty much have what Camaro fans would like to see. Heck, even a 70-73 design would be nice (my preference). And it would be a "better" car, using your definition. The reasons why they WONT are simply because the F-body design had several inherent flaws that couldnt be rectified through simple updating. My buddy autocross races F-body camaros and Firebirds, and I've heard numerous times how expensive it is to make even a modern car handle on the track like an import. I discussed the issues with some of the GM Quality Control people when we got the last of the old models, and even they didnt know how the issues would be solved, or even IF they would be. GM did what they had to do and designed an entirely new car. I can understand that and live with it. But that doesnt make it a Camaro. They need alot more cues from the original if they want to pass this car off as one. IMO they would have been better off with this design if they had named it something entirely different. Is this a "better car" than the original Camaro? Yes, of course. What it's NOT, is a "better Camaro".
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Another Mustang Clone like the original from the 60's....
Their plan back then..
Mustang debuts..wait few years and build a copy.
Their plan today
New Mustang debuts..wait a few years and build a copy.
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It's not going to be a FWD rebadge. It may or may not get built but I'm confident it won't be FWD. As far as if it's a Holden....so what? The GTO is a very capable car, and we see that now that the GTO can sell some units, they are redesigning it for 07. I'd suspect a Holden "Camaro" to get the same treatment.
My point is this.....for the last 20 years or so the performance car has been mainly dead in America. This new crop means that since, say, 1972, all 3 major car manufacturers have not 1, but at least 2 production performance cars.
Ford GT
Ford Mustang GT
Dodge Charger (and SRT8)
Dodge Magnum (and SRT8)
Dodge Viper SRT10
Dodge Challenger?
Chevy Corvette (and Z06)
Chevy Camaro?
Chrysler 300 (and SRT8)
Pontiac GTO
Not to mention such things like the Ram SRT10 Neon SRT4 Chevy Cobalt SS
If you don't like the way it looks, that's subjective and I can understand it. I'm just happy there is a full fledged horsepower war again, I don't care if they put out a 4 door Superbird with a navigation system....if it's faster than the original, I support it.
Barracudas are a muscle car, you ever see a 66? Don't tell me what's ugly :lol
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Star,
Let me be the first to "complain" about the new mustang. After my first 6 months in the UK, the new mustang started looking fat. Plump. Overweight. Obese in fact. The body needs liposuction.
Seriously, the mustang, compared to the really GOOD european cars, simply looks overweight. It's like putting a typical american couch potato next to a european football player. Yea the couch potato can bench press 250 lbs, but he still weighs too much and has heart disease.
If the mustang kept the same styling, but pulled in the fenders and bulges a bit, I think it would be much more attractive. As it is, it just looks big, and the outside dimensions do NOTHING to improve interior room either. It's just empty space between the passenger space and the outer mold lines. Euro cars don't have that bloated look, well at least most don't, and I think some of them look a hell of a lot better. Just look at the skyline... It looks like a blocky prelude but straight off the showroom floor it outperforms anything but a vette or turbo porsche. Plus like many other Japanese performance sedans, a few grand of pretty easy mods nets you an additional 100-200 hp. The stang... Well, you can get more HP by throwing money at a mustang but my '98 trans-am is STILL faster around a road course because it handles better on the track.
Slim down the stang and it would be a great car IMHO. As it is, it's an overweight ex-running back who USED to be good back when he weighed a few pounds less.
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Originally posted by ASTAC
Another Mustang Clone like the original from the 60's....
Their plan back then..
Mustang debuts..wait few years and build a copy.
Their plan today
New Mustang debuts..wait a few years and build a copy.
And I'll bet they clean the Mustangs clock this time around as well.
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Originally posted by eagl
Star,
Let me be the first to "complain" about the new mustang. After my first 6 months in the UK, the new mustang started looking fat. Plump. Overweight. Obese in fact. The body needs liposuction.
Seriously, the mustang, compared to the really GOOD european cars, simply looks overweight. It's like putting a typical american couch potato next to a european football player. Yea the couch potato can bench press 250 lbs, but he still weighs too much and has heart disease.
If the mustang kept the same styling, but pulled in the fenders and bulges a bit, I think it would be much more attractive. As it is, it just looks big, and the outside dimensions do NOTHING to improve interior room either. It's just empty space between the passenger space and the outer mold lines. Euro cars don't have that bloated look, well at least most don't, and I think some of them look a hell of a lot better. Just look at the skyline... It looks like a blocky prelude but straight off the showroom floor it outperforms anything but a vette or turbo porsche. Plus like many other Japanese performance sedans, a few grand of pretty easy mods nets you an additional 100-200 hp. The stang... Well, you can get more HP by throwing money at a mustang but my '98 trans-am is STILL faster around a road course because it handles better on the track.
Slim down the stang and it would be a great car IMHO. As it is, it's an overweight ex-running back who USED to be good back when he weighed a few pounds less.
beatle, Eagl is going to kick your bellybutton when he finds out you hacked his acount.
Watch out this time you will fighting a man!:D
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the last really good looking camaro was the '69 which..... you can now buy the bodies for brand new.
lazs
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Originally posted by J_A_B
GM gets it wrong yet again.
I wonder which will happen first...they fire all of their design teams, or go bankrupt
J_A_B
If only the public KNEW how close to Bankruptcy GM is. They failed to hide how dire their situation is. If they continue what they're doing, 5 years tops.
Karaya
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Well what is a guy to do Karaya? The CEO just took a $44M dollar annual pay cut. Poor guy. Must be tough.
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Originally posted by Sandman
Personally, I'd like to see them do a no **** retro Camaro with 90-95% of the body style from a 68-69 rather than the 50-60% that we see typically. Same goes for Mustangs, Challengers, GTO, etc.
Yeah, and they'd sell more too. Us old fahrts that wanted them 35 years ago have the money to buy them now.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Well what is a guy to do Karaya? The CEO just took a $44M dollar annual pay cut. Poor guy. Must be tough.
:rofl :rofl
I wubs you "Der Skuzzinator"! Hope you and yours have a great weekend.
Karaya
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I'll sell ya a '69 camaro ... it was original 427 car .. the only catch is that its been a pro stock car since '70 .. quickest et 7.50 189 mph . its currently getting a 9 sec eng in it and an auto.
now the problem with the GTO is 1965 is the most popular year .. and its very hard to create a "Box" car in todays boring aerodynamic mess .
My Very rare precious "Box" car .... its just 1 of 13 serviving RA1's (they were all backdoor race cars its an 11.00 sec GTO outta the "skunkworks" that weighs 3100 lbs ) ?Notice the door posts its a Coupe.
(http://s90945482.onlinehome.us/roosite/Secret%20link%20folder/66gto80s.jpg)
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The 2009 Chevrolet Mustang
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Originally posted by eagl
Star,
Let me be the first to "complain" about the new mustang. After my first 6 months in the UK, the new mustang started looking fat. Plump. Overweight. Obese in fact. The body needs liposuction.
Seriously, the mustang, compared to the really GOOD european cars, simply looks overweight. It's like putting a typical american couch potato next to a european football player. Yea the couch potato can bench press 250 lbs, but he still weighs too much and has heart disease.
If the mustang kept the same styling, but pulled in the fenders and bulges a bit, I think it would be much more attractive. As it is, it just looks big, and the outside dimensions do NOTHING to improve interior room either. It's just empty space between the passenger space and the outer mold lines. Euro cars don't have that bloated look, well at least most don't, and I think some of them look a hell of a lot better. Just look at the skyline... It looks like a blocky prelude but straight off the showroom floor it outperforms anything but a vette or turbo porsche. Plus like many other Japanese performance sedans, a few grand of pretty easy mods nets you an additional 100-200 hp. The stang... Well, you can get more HP by throwing money at a mustang but my '98 trans-am is STILL faster around a road course because it handles better on the track.
Slim down the stang and it would be a great car IMHO. As it is, it's an overweight ex-running back who USED to be good back when he weighed a few pounds less.
And? You are talking to a guy who's list of "performance" cars included a couple of Chevelle's, 4 Olds Cutlass's, a 71 Torino, a 69 Torino, a 76 Cougar, and a LeMans that was big enough to haul a full size motorcycle in the trunk, and damn near shut it. Then the 2 Impalas .......... do I need to go on? Big doesnt mean slow. If you like slim and refined as your definition of attractive, thats your opinion, and you are welcome to it. Far as I'm concerned, I like curves in the lines I look at. Even angles sometimes, as long as they lead to curves. I'd still like a '59 Caddilac convertible. Love the taillights on those things. My favorite mustang would be a tossup between the '66, the '69, or the '70 Mach I.
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I for one, like the look of the concept. I dont think it will look the same if it goes into production, but i also dont think it will be that far off.
I was all set to go get the new Shelby Cobra when it comes out, but after getting a chance to see what the Challenger and Camaro may look like, Im gonna wait and see what happens.
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GM doesn't get it. Neither does Chrysler/MercedesBenz.
When I hear the word Camaro.....I picture the 69 Z28.....the first Camaro with the 302 cu in powerplant around 1966 I believe. When Chrysler re introduced the Charger I pictured the 68 Charger RT.....The 69 with a Hemi (426 cu in) not what they call Hemi now. And the current Charger is 4 doors? What the hell were they thinking off?
The only ones that have gotten it right were Ford when they reintroduced the Mustang. It actually looks like a Mustang. They can't make enough of them. Why? Because the word Mustang brings one to remember what the Mustang used to look like in its' heyday and damned if the new Mustang doesn't look like that.
GM reintroduces the GTO.....LOL ya right.....looks like a Grand Prix with the mumps.
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Was a 90 5.0 Mustang or an 01 Z28 any less worthy of the names because they didn't look like they did when Nixon was president?
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Originally posted by *NDM*JohnnyX
Was a 90 5.0 Mustang or an 01 Z28 any less worthy of the names because they didn't look like they did when Nixon was president?
The mustang wasn't...It looked like a small 2 door family car with a spoiler. 2nd worst Mustang design ever.
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Hi Camaro.
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Originally posted by Hajo
GM doesn't get it. Neither does Chrysler/MercedesBenz.
When I hear the word Camaro.....I picture the 69 Z28.....the first Camaro with the 302 cu in powerplant around 1966 I believe. When Chrysler re introduced the Charger I pictured the 68 Charger RT.....The 69 with a Hemi (426 cu in) not what they call Hemi now. And the current Charger is 4 doors? What the hell were they thinking off?
The only ones that have gotten it right were Ford when they reintroduced the Mustang. It actually looks like a Mustang. They can't make enough of them. Why? Because the word Mustang brings one to remember what the Mustang used to look like in its' heyday and damned if the new Mustang doesn't look like that.
GM reintroduces the GTO.....LOL ya right.....looks like a Grand Prix with the mumps.
67 was the first year for the camaro. It had a inline 6, a 327 V8, a 350 V8, a 396 Big block V8, and in a very few cases the in 67 I think the 302 DZ V8 in a limited number of Z-28s. That 302 was a solid lifter road race motor not available in any other model of Camaro.
Dodge gets it. The Charger was not a real retro effort it was way for dodge to cash in on the 300.
The Chalenger looks fantastic. Better then (the well done) Mustang IMO.