Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: SkevJ on January 12, 2006, 09:16:11 AM
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how in the heck is this company going to make more money when it doesnt even have a guideline on how to fly or even a newbie arena. Its like AH expects you to be an ace pilot and fly on the bat. Its a shame I have to go to an unoffical website that tells me how to fly. I'm not even having fun with this. I'm more frustrated then having fun. games like Tanarus, Cyberstrike, WoW, and most other online games have a thing called TUTORIAL. LEARN IT.
And you all wonder why you have only 300 people in a arena on a busy night. Newbs like me are just bait to people in that arena who flys over 10 hours a day. I like the two week trial thing but I'm sorry because I'm not paying 15 bucks a month to get my bellybutton kicked and then you record to see what he does and that doesnt teach you anything either because the damn instruments doesnt function properly. This game had potential to be great and a successful heir to Air Warrior(At least they had a newbie arena) but instead you expect only WWII pilots to play this game.
Last time I check games had tutorials. Hell why this game cant have a tutorial? I shouldnt have to ask people all the time what's this? What's that? A guy told me it took him almost 6 months to finally figure what the hell is going on and how to capture things. Why dont you all put a tutorial at the beginning before you play the game about what purpose a Vehicle hangar does and what's the purpose of an Ammo field and etc. This is bad business guys bad business. In order for someone to love the product they have to know it first and it doesnt take an average joe two weeks to learn this game. AND HOW THE FUDGE I GET OUTTURNED BY A P47 IN A SPITFIRE??? TELL ME THAT???
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Deleted
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Theres LOTs of help out there if you look for it:
Help and Training forum.
Training Arena (select it on startup screen instead of Main)
Help Section on HTC homepage (http://www.hitechcreations.com/frindex.html) go to Support section/help
Netaces (http://www.netaces.org) - tons of useful info, getting started stuff, tactics etc
SimHQ (http://www.simhq.com/_air/acc_library.html) - a little more into technical stuff
AH is a flight SIM, it *will* need time to learn and even more so to master it. But theres lots of help along the way if your willing.
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Your tired whining aside, I do agree with your basic premise that AH is not user friendly. Use of readily accessible tooltips or mouseover help or even offline instructions on how to fly would really go a long way toward getting newbies over the huge hurdle of just learning how to get the wheels off of the ground. I've always felt that AH is an extremely flexible, powerful game that is highly configurable, but intuitive it is not.
However, if you expect to just load up the game and become an ace of aces without any effort or practice, you're sadly mistaken. Some people have played this game or games like it for five, ten or even fifteen years. Do you expect to compete with that without even trying?
-- Todd/Leviathn
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^^^^^ up there under downloads is help , and "Getting started "
www.netaces.org (http://www.netaces.org) is also a great site . get the one page key /dot commands and print it .
the next thing is to spend time with a trainer or anyone willing to help you .
this game has a learning curve to it ... but with paitence and lots of practice it gets really adictive and fun.
also watch films they help alot.
as for a jug out turning a spit ... well I do it all the time w/ a jug , you may have just been out angled also .
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Your tired whining aside, I do agree with your basic premise that AH is not user friendly. Use of readily accessible tooltips or mouseover help or even offline instructions on how to fly would really go a long way toward getting newbies over the huge hurdle of just learning how to get the wheels off of the ground.
I've always felt that AH is an extremely flexible, powerful game that is highly configurable, but intuitive it is not.
However, if you expect to just load up the game and become an ace of aces without any effort or practice, you're sadly mistaken. Some people have played this game for five, ten or even fifteen years. Do you expect to compete with that without even trying?
-- Todd/Leviathn
I disagree Todd. Theres an interactive tutorial. The Training Arena. And you can always contact the Trainer Corps at trainers@hitechcreations.com .
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Originally posted by SkevJ
how in the heck is this company going to make more money when it doesnt even have a guideline on how to fly or even a newbie arena. Its like AH expects you to be an ace pilot and fly on the bat. Its a shame I have to go to an unoffical website that tells me how to fly. I'm not even having fun with this. I'm more frustrated then having fun. games like Tanarus, Cyberstrike, WoW, and most other online games have a thing called TUTORIAL. LEARN IT.
And you all wonder why you have only 300 people in a arena on a busy night. Newbs like me are just bait to people in that arena who flys over 10 hours a day. I like the two week trial thing but I'm sorry because I'm not paying 15 bucks a month to get my bellybutton kicked and then you record to see what he does and that doesnt teach you anything either because the damn instruments doesnt function properly. This game had potential to be great and a successful heir to Air Warrior(At least they had a newbie arena) but instead you expect only WWII pilots to play this game.
Last time I check games had tutorials. Hell why this game cant have a tutorial? I shouldnt have to ask people all the time what's this? What's that? A guy told me it took him almost 6 months to finally figure what the hell is going on and how to capture things. Why dont you all put a tutorial at the beginning before you play the game about what purpose a Vehicle hangar does and what's the purpose of an Ammo field and etc. This is bad business guys bad business. In order for someone to love the product they have to know it first and it doesnt take an average joe two weeks to learn this game. AND HOW THE FUDGE I GET OUTTURNED BY A P47 IN A SPITFIRE??? TELL ME THAT???
Two words
Training Arena
BTW, I've been playing this game since day 1, and I still get my butt kicked-suck it up
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Im an avrage joe, and learn to fly?....dont run into the ground...your flying!
It didnt take me long to learn how to play...heck i saw the comercial on mititary channel log in and played and dont do all that bad ive only been playin a few months :)
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I remember my first time in AH offline, first time I ever tried the game. Took a plane and, silly me it had a TON of torque (mighta been a corsair) and I was rolling horribly on takeoff. After a few tries I made it off the ground (not helped by the rockets, bomb, drop tank, and 100% gas I had) only to try to turn and -- and -- drop a wing and crash into the ground off the runway. I was too slow. I didn't know this stuff, but I learned. Hell the 2 week trial is barely enough to put the training wheels on, but this game does have its moments, and you will enjoy it (eventually). It's like any game - you have to know what you're doing to some degree.
Hell, it could be as bad as MSFS3, but it's not.
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Originally posted by Schatzi
I disagree Todd. Theres an interactive tutorial. The Training Arena. And you can always contact the Trainer Corps at trainers@hitechcreations.com .
Compare that to a game like World of Warcraft where you just show up, hop in, and within an hour you can have the mechanics of the game fully understood as they literally walk you through an introductory area. I'm not referring to training in the sense of how to become a better pilot, but rather an interface that is accessible to new users without losing the functionality that those of us with experience enjoy.
Just to use an example, take the stick mapping and stick configuration setup. I've had to talk perfectly reasonable, intelligent people through how to use these functions because, while powerful, they were not intuitive and did not feature easily accessible tooltips. Or for another example, why not floating help descriptions when mousing over options in the clipboard menu? How many people are going to figure out that you have to go to the O'Club to do Squad stuff? How many people will know intuitively that you have to invite someone to a squad in order to form a squad the first time?
-- Todd/Leviathn
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SkevJ,
what you are looking for is available here: http://www.hitechcreations.com/ahhelp/
For future reference, the help pages can be accessed by one mouse click from the website: Just choose "Support" and click "Help". The website is here: http://www.hitechcreations.com/
Best regards,
Camo
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He's absolutely right.
There should be a tutorial for beginners. What does TA help when the beginner is alone in the arena???
I think a tutorial would help. The basic info and flight maneuver has to be in a tutorial.
But be sure SkevJ, a tutorial wouldn't stop your frustration.
Even with a tutorial u would get killed almost every time u flying and that will last for month.:mad:
Ofcourse u get more and more kills by the time, but u will get shot down much more.
We all made this experience, but we stay - learn - learn more - and keep learning.
NghtFire
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It's a shame that a potential new member of the community is not enjoying the experience. Most everyone in this gaming community is glad to see new players join the ranks...we need each other to have any fun. However...walking in the door and berating everything in sight is probably not going to win you any assistance at all. We all, mostly, really enjoy the game, and have been with it for some years. So...here's a little advice to help you enjoy your time, while not leaving a really bad impression on everyone around;
1) Stop the ranting, and start learning.
2) The raw basics are explained in the help.
3) Read the outside tutorials that are available...who cares what the source? Read everything on netaces.org 3 times, minimum, and you'll begin to understand. Then start reading some more. Aircraft evaluations, comparisons, diaries of real combat pilots, some history, some work on ACM theory and practice, etc...
4) The game is a simulation of flight and of air-to-air and air-to-ground combat (among a few other things). These are inherently complex topics, with tremendously detailed lore, and will necessarily require some effort to actually learn what is going on. If you are getting shot down, I wouldn't blame the equipment...learn to do better. Many of us have been in here for quite some time, and getting shot down (a lot) is the nature of the beast.
5) This is no longer shooting at AI computer-controlled opponents. One of the most shocking realizations is that people are a LOT smarter and more talented than an AI.
6) The tutorial you so stridently demand already exists...we call it the Training Arena. Much better than a simple-minded, scripted tutorial...you'll find a huge arena, some set ground-rules, and a community of designated trainers who VOLUNTEER to help new players become familiar with the intricacies of the game. People in here will HELP you learn the things you'll need to know. Trust me...a 15 minuted scripted tutorial doesn't exist because it would be worthless...this game just isn't that simple.
7) Easy to learn...hard to master. It's supposed to take time to get better and better, or you'd bore yourself right out of the game in a matter of weeks. This isn't a "$50 bucks for 20 hours" off the shelf box game. Many like a game with a real learning curve...gives the game ongoing interest.
8) Read the rest of the BBS...like the part called Help & Training.
9) Nobody wonders why we have 300 people in a night...a busy night is 500. Who cares? It only takes one to give me a target...
10) If a 47 out-turned your spit...you let him do it. You let him get on top of you while you were at an energy disadvantage. He maintained e, set up his angles correctly, waited for his shot, then took it. It's technique...not equipment. Dogfighting just ain't simple, bro.
Really...there is a lot to enjoy about this game, but you have to enjoy what it offers. If you prefer an arcade or console experience, this won't do it. If you like something that's a challenge, that requires some practice to get any good at, then you'll love this thing. You'll also find that help is available for the asking...if you ask better. If you've been frustrated by the responses you get asking basic questions in the Main Arena, it's just because it's not the right place for it. spend time in the TA, tune your radio to the Help channel, and start taking notes.
You might find you end up just as addicted as the rest of us. Lots of good advice posted already, see?
Best of Luck!
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AH was intuitive to me from the first day.
I didn't understand little things like combat trim at first sight, but I did see what it did right away, more or less, before understanding what it was modeling, exactly.
I found the interface ugly, but functional.. my first games weren't foolproof for-dummies-tutorial games.
The one thing I saved a lot of time on, while in the steep part of the learning curve, was dogfight crash courses from Jekyll.
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another thing is Alot of Squads will let you wing with them ,(Even if your not a subscriber yet ) and help you along the way . w showing you What its like to play with a team of guys/gals that will be there to help watch your back "6", as for SA "Situation awareness" is one of the hardest things to learn at 1st . and is probaly the last thing that all of a sudden "Clicks" along with your basic ACM ....
when this happens you start to out fly players and get to follow them around trying to put lead into there flying machines.
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I have only been in game for 4 days now, and I am hooked hard. Sure I get shot down alot ... but I am learning. You can learn alot by just following other pilots into a fight .. staying high and watching how they set up a kill. Your gonna get shot down ... your gonna auger (always makes me chuckle when I do that .. has to look funny) and you won't get alot of kills right away.
When you land your first kills ... it feels oh so sweet. Stick with it .. and you will see.
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Ok I understand that but WHY do I have to wait until someone shows up in the Training arena when 9 times out of 10 the next person that will show up will be a guy like looking for help. Most of the Aces are out there flying in the main arena.
And what's wrong with an interactive training arena like you play in a standalone game and it teaches you how to fly, land, shoot at targets, basic manuevers etc. They dont have to but you could even but attributes on planes to show everyone what their strength and weaknesses are when you highlight a plane. I'm sure there are some hardcore AH fans that are able to take the time to do that. I shouldnt have to minimize my window and go to a netaces.org site to see what plane does what.
Also so what if you get the flying mechanics right? How about learning how to capture bases and such. Hell I thought you had to level an airfield to capture a base. I didnt know you had to destroy the city. No one even told me about the clipboard of how to identify the hangars and everything else. That could be easily fixed by just having the names of the buildings highlighted on your screen when you fly by them just like you do with names.
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They could do a tutorial..Have the film rolling and record voice overs while going through basic stick mapping etc.
Iv'e had a couple of freinds try AH and they couldn't deal with how to get things setup...
A how-to-fly film would be user friendly as well.
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Originally posted by SirLoin
They could do a tutorial..Have the film rolling and record voice overs while going through basic stick mapping etc.
Iv'e had a couple of freinds try AH and they couldn't deal with how to get things setup...
A how-to-fly film would be user friendly as well.
Exactly Loin and your friends could have been potiental customers right there, but no because they didnt know what the heck was going on and I dont blame them. I gave it a chance a little because I use to play AW and I loved AW. You know why I loved it so much. because before I played the pros I had to play in the newbie arena before I get up to the regular arena. It was after you score 10000 points you couldnt play there anymore and that was highly acceptable.
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Originally posted by SkevJ
Ok I understand that but WHY do I have to wait until someone shows up in the Training arena when 9 times out of 10 the next person that will show up will be a guy like looking for help. Most of the Aces are out there flying in the main arena.
And what's wrong with an interactive training arena like you play in a standalone game and it teaches you how to fly, land, shoot at targets, basic manuevers etc. They dont have to but you could even but attributes on planes to show everyone what their strength and weaknesses are when you highlight a plane. I'm sure there are some hardcore AH fans that are able to take the time to do that. I shouldnt have to minimize my window and go to a netaces.org site to see what plane does what.
Also so what if you get the flying mechanics right? How about learning how to capture bases and such. Hell I thought you had to level an airfield to capture a base. I didnt know you had to destroy the city. No one even told me about the clipboard of how to identify the hangars and everything else. That could be easily fixed by just having the names of the buildings highlighted on your screen when you fly by them just like you do with names.
skev, originally, this game was designed as a post airwarrior/warbirds game, where pilots from there came to play. a tutorial feature was planned, and is in the works, but is on the back burner for now, with BIG game developments near completion
if you'd like, i will come to the training arena right now with you, and teach you some stuff?
it is a hard game to understand, but, you will learn it reasonably fast.
when i first started i was overwhelmed, but the feeling soon fades.
i can easily pop into the training arena right now with you if you want me to
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lolz
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Coming from the old Air Warrior Relaxed Realism experience -- is there a certain arena that is similar to an AW RR arena?
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yeah i would like that man
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Originally posted by Dradz
Coming from the old Air Warrior Relaxed Realism experience -- is there a certain arena that is similar to an AW RR arena?
You guys see this? AH developers are you reading this? This is money right here!!! Money!!!! You have to give the people what they want
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As many here said, i play this game for several years and still suck
Many are better than me, i know and i think the best here find a master
every time palying the game.
Why ?
Personally i think the main reason is, that you have no disadavantage when
you got shot down as in other online games like WoW. in WoW, as example,
when your char died, you spawn elsewhere and must go to your body to go
on. Not here. You have all of your skills right here when spawning on the field
and don't loose them wehn you got shot down.
That's the reason why most here fight to the death. Kamikaze is a legal practice.
The only thing is you get not that much perk points as you land your kills. But
nothing else happen and you don't have to fly a endless time back to your airfield.
So a good one in P47 outturn your spit, no real fighterpilot think about that,
because have has only this 1 live and a spit normally turn better than a P47.
Risk maneuvers and furballs are liked by most in here, because they loose
nothing as i said before.
So ACM and tactics are useful but suck when a hord of shooterwookies
come on to help you get frustrated about this game. :t
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is there a certain arena that is similar to an AW RR arena?
It's called the MA. :D
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Originally posted by SkevJ
yeah i would like that man
ok skev i'll be on in 5 mins
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Morph's 10 step Tutorial to play teh game!!1oneo!1!
For RR Ezy noob mode:
Step:
1) Click hanger
2) Scroll to teh La7' zOMfg
3) Take teh max 100& fuels
4) Click teh little box with letters for N-S-E-W runway sapwns.
5) Making sure you have stall limiter/auto take off on firewall the biotch not to forget to hit P for weP!
6) You are flying now.
7) Find a red icon. THATs a bad guy! zomFG
8) Fly to teh red icon making sure you are in super warp speed mode and OPEN FIRE!
9) If you miss your shot extend for 25 miles for your saftey.
10) REVERS#E! come back to t-eh red icons and repeat steps 8&9 & 10 if needed untilz you got mad kilz.
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LOL AH compared to IL2m is way user friendly IMHO.
Plenty of help out there for you.
Oh and when was the last time the creator of a game came online just to make sure everything was working right?
HT does it all the time and AH is the only game I have seen this in so good luck trying to find a better sim- game for 15 bones a month.
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Originally posted by fartwinkle
LOL AH compared to IL2m is way user friendly IMHO.
Plenty of help out there for you.
Oh and when was the last time the creator of a game came online just to make sure everything was working right?
HT does it all the time and AH is the only game I have seen this in so good luck trying to find a better sim- game for 15 bones a month.
damn straight, AH is the best entertainment you can get, and all it costs you each month is one less pizza
HT and the staff are so dedicated, and they're always giving us new things to play with. give it a little time, and you'll be amazed how much fun you can have with this game and the great people you meet in it
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The flying aspect of the game isn't terribly difficult to comprehend. There is auto-takeoff for goodness sake...use it if that's a problem.
I've worked with first time flight simmers in the TA on their very first day and it takes only a few minutes to get them up and flying around.
use netaces.org to learn the airplanes you may or may not be familiar with. Brush up on procedures and tactics. There are some very good trainers out there who know the game backwards and forwards and can definately help you with the years of experience they have.
When I transitioned from AW to AH (bowing head for AW) I was a lost soul. I didn't know the new keymaps and set everything to the way Air Warrior was. I ended up getting into the training aspect (which is what I do for a living) of things and found that my key-commands being different than the default were hindering more than helping. I had to re-learn all the key input commands AFTER I'd established my new habits in AH. Even now...I hit Escape+E now and then when trying to bail out ;)
Don't sweat it SkevJ, everybody has a big learning curve. A set training structure would help some but most wouldn't use it so why spend the dollars to build something very few will use? Would you build a $100,000,000 bridge across a small creek in the middle of South Dakota?
Keep your chin up, and keep the whines on the BBs to a minimum and you'll be surprised how many will help. Off the top of my head I can think of a few trainers:
Ghosth
Fuzeman
WideWing
TC (Tequila Chaser)
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He has one good point.
The AH Help-page is not a tutorial or a walkthrough. It is written as a reference guide where you can check something. The way it is now it not good for continuous reading.
Most flight sims (especially the online types) assume some basic knowhow on how planes fly and what do ailerons do. IL2 went as far as to make takeoff/landing practice missions. AH gives the offline mode to crash yourself as you see fit till you learn, but absolutely no guidance for those without a clue.
A newbie guide should walk you through a few basic operations. It may not even be in-game guide, but it does have to tell you what to do in a checklist format, line by line. Every click on the interface needs to be spelled:
- hit ESC to bring up the clipboard
- click hangar
- choose spit XVI from the list :p
- select 100% fuel
- click NE runway at the bottom left of the board.
etc...
For total newbies:
1. takeoff lesson.
2. landing lesson.
3. VERY basic gunnery (on the offline drones) bomb drops and weapon selection in fighters
4. bomber operation (gunners bombsight, formation)
5. goon operations and base captures (a lot of newbiew fly goons)
.
.
etc
Then when they come to the main and die a lot - at least they die because they dont know how to fight, not because they dont know how to fly.
AND HOW THE FUDGE I GET OUTTURNED BY A P47 IN A SPITFIRE??? TELL ME THAT???
It happen and happens often and it's not a bug either. Any plane can "out turn" (or out-manuver) any other plane in the right conditions and especially if one knows what he's doing and the other don't. This is one of the more complicated things you need to learn. That stuff takes more than a tutorial.
Bozon
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You do not have to wait for a trainer in the Training Arena. Send an email to trainers@hitechcreations.com and you can schedule personal one-on-one time with a trainer.
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Originally posted by Morpheus
Morph's 10 step Tutorial to play teh game!!1oneo!1!
For RR Ezy noob mode:
9) If you miss your shot extend for 25 miles for your saftey.
10) REVERS#E! come back to t-eh red icons and repeat steps 8&9 & 10 if needed untilz you got mad kilz.
Only 25 miles? Whatcha trying to do, get him killed?
Seriously...there is a help file, its what I used :)
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Compare that to a game like World of Warcraft where you just show up, hop in, and within an hour you can have the mechanics of the game fully understood as they literally walk you through an introductory area. I'm not referring to training in the sense of how to become a better pilot, but rather an interface that is accessible to new users without losing the functionality that those of us with experience enjoy.
Just to use an example, take the stick mapping and stick configuration setup. I've had to talk perfectly reasonable, intelligent people through how to use these functions because, while powerful, they were not intuitive and did not feature easily accessible tooltips. Or for another example, why not floating help descriptions when mousing over options in the clipboard menu? How many people are going to figure out that you have to go to the O'Club to do Squad stuff? How many people will know intuitively that you have to invite someone to a squad in order to form a squad the first time?
-- Todd/Leviathn
I think theres a huge difference between games like WOW and a flight sim. I mean, how thick is the handbook for FalconF4?
The problem is, theres so many different stick types out there, all of which have their own quirks in setup.... i dont think you could make a simple tutorial for even a limited number of those. And then, half the people i see in TA start out with mouse. Hell, last week a guy was flying with game pad.
And, if you read the help file, itll tell you what to do as well. You just gotta read it. And, maybe, printout parts or all of it. Same goes for Netaces. Theres a one page reference for keymaps (printable) for download there, as well as step by step descriptions on how to configure your radio, stick, video, voice etc. and how to take off.
Im pretty much a regular in the TA. from European late afternoon to US late night, you generally dont have to wait long for someone to show up that can help you with basics. Ive seen the very people i helped the day before to get their stick setup and the plane flying giving tips and help to the newcomers.
I think AH has a very good and effective training system. Does it serve you things on a platter? Certainly not. Can it be improved? Certainly, and it constantly IS.
But, youll have to make your own effort to get things started. I dont think one can expect a SIM and its programmers to make up for their lack of willingness to read at least a help file.
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SkevJ
The whole attraction to the game is the deep learning and comprehension curve. It takes alot of dedication and patience to even become remotely proficient. I can appreciate your frustration. HTC has been very gracious by allowing the two week trial period to see if you like it. It is more sim then game bro. Flight physics and tactical application of those charecteristics are pretty much the foundation of the game. The MA does not represent that a 100 % of the time but the handling chareteristics are their all of the time. The flight modlling is very well represented. I think everyone has a pre concieved idea of what the game will be like when they first get on. I guarantee you most of them are shocked by the reality of it in respects to what they expected. So Skev the point to this rant is it is not your out of the box from best buy flight sim. IL2, Pacific theater, F18 etc, etc, etc. This is and will be the dominate online flight sim and will only become more complex as time goes on. So saddle up and prepare yourself for a long ride!
It is heroin in Cyber world!:t
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How about you tell us your in game ID so when someone sees you on line they are capable of knowing who you are and that you need help?
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Originally posted by SkevJ
You guys see this? AH developers are you reading this? This is money right here!!! Money!!!! You have to give the people what they want
Bah, yeah there's money alright... so far, a whopping 30 or 45 bucks.
I'm sure the devs have this kind of stuff in the works, but it's a matter of priority - and right now Combat Tour is likely number 1... and I'm sure they'll make more money off of Combat Tour than they would with a new "relaxed realism" arena.
(Relaxed Realism...? I think a lot of AH players would be embarrassed to fly in that type of game.)
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Originally posted by Schatzi
I mean, how thick is the handbook for FalconF4?
Over 700 pages. I've read it... twice. I still have problems with HARM deployments. I've never actually shot a Maverick yet. Sometimes I get stuck in CCIP mode and the bombs won't release, and I don't know why (yes, Master Arm is switched ON).
AH would be much, much easier if some of the people in the furball weren't so good :)
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shades.
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man he got alot with that troll lol
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:noid
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Originally posted by Schatzi
I think theres a huge difference between games like WOW and a flight sim. I mean, how thick is the handbook for FalconF4?
[/b]
Again, let me reiterate that I am talking only about user interface issues and not game playability issues. So obviously a game like WoW differs substantially from AH in its overall learning curve, and flight sims clearly require a more substantial investment of time to master. However, I think some of the fundamental user interface lessons from games like WoW remain; they make clear how to manipulate the game controls, what various menu options do, how to customize, how to set up video and sound, etc. How many people ask what the E6B on the clipboard means? Why not a quick mouseover description of it for new players? Is it intuitive to place squadron functions in the O'Club? Would new players think to look there for them? Why not give a gameplay tip when loading plane skins (something like "Alt-I changes how you view friends and enemies" or "Shift-F alternates between automatic and manual fuel tank selection")?
That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about. Obviously learning how to fly and fight is another matter entirely. I have little sympathy for those unwilling to put in the time and effort on that front, but I feel some empathy toward those who find the interface itself daunting and unfriendly. I'm not talking about training issues here.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Again, let me reiterate that I am talking only about user interface issues and not game playability issues. So obviously a game like WoW differs substantially from AH in its overall learning curve, and flight sims clearly require a more substantial investment of time to master. However, I think some of the fundamental user interface lessons from games like WoW remain; they make clear how to manipulate the game controls, what various menu options do, how to customize, how to set up video and sound, etc. How many people ask what the E6B on the clipboard means? Why not a quick mouseover description of it for new players? Is it intuitive to place squadron functions in the O'Club? Would new players think to look there for them? Why not give a gameplay tip when loading plane skins (something like "Alt-I changes how you view friends and enemies" or "Shift-F alternates between automatic and manual fuel tank selection")?
That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about. Obviously learning how to fly and fight is another matter entirely. I have little sympathy for those unwilling to put in the time and effort on that front, but I feel some empathy toward those who find the interface itself daunting and unfriendly. I'm not talking about training issues here.
-- Todd/Leviathn [/B]
Why not read the help file? Its all in there and more.
And im not talking about training issues either. Ive helped more then one newbie to get his stuff set up. From mouse to stick, vid, radio, settings. And NONE was ever the same. Im not sure how a tutorial could be set up for so many eventualities of OS, JS, GC, Headset, Memory etc.
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I agree with Levi..
IMO AH was designed from the start to accomodate people who were already familiar with basic on-line combat flight sim control interfaces, such as tower movement, hangar selection, basic flight features and etc etc.. While not officially, AH probably can be considered as a successor to AW and WarBirds, the same key staff who made WB made AH, uses many simular concepts and system controls as the previous games, and many of the players who started AH were ex-AW/WB players.
However, people shouldn't treat AH as if it would always be the same people we used to know playing the game. Quite many years passed since AH first came. Kids who were in elementary schools are now teenagers showing their first interest in flight-sim games. It is entirely possible a good portion of the AH population has never played WB/AH before. In about ten years (though a sad fact...) the old AW/WB generation might become a disappearing kind.
What then?
Being "User Friendly" is now an irreversible trend in the game industry. While I hate to say this as an devout AH fan, there are currently many problems with Aces High as a game, that goes unnoticed or overlooked just because most of us are old-time flight sim enthusiasts.
We used to play games that were entirely text based, for crying out loud! :) For us, the current interface is more than enough, quickly adaptable, and to a degree very familiar - but that's just because we are getting old. Compared with some of the other on-line games, their basic manuals are getting thinner everyday. In some cases there are no paper-printed manuals at all, the game sells with only with a simple document, and all the rest of the troubleshooting/FAQ issues can be accessed entirely via the game. Visual/video explanations, practice sessions and lessons, in-game tutorials.. pictorial guides, etc etc..
Currently, all of the above, in AH, is taken care of by a handful of volunteers. However, as a complete game, in reality AH shoud have been preparing such measures from the start. Come on guys, even the official home pages planes/vehicles section hasn't been updated for a very long time.
Like Levi said, it's not a matter of gameplay. It's a matter of basic caretaking for the newcomer to the game, the new generations who'd first start out flight sim games with AH. And in that sense, AH is, unfortunately, wholely unprepared. Accessing the functions are terrible. The simple mouse wheel functons don't work. People have to type in dot commands. The arena settings are often hard to understand, and in most cases the effects and such aren't even explained in the help files.
Like HT's own words, it is because AH started with a core group, serving a small number of flight sim fans... "making some money while we make the game we want"... everything starts out small, and while it was small these problems weren't that a big thing. However, like it or not, AH is now the foremost leading game in the on-line flight simulation genre of the entire world. The AW/WB competition is dead. Other online-WW2 games are struggling to perfect what they have.
As a matter of fact, this discussion goes along the same lines with the graphics discussion. Times are changing, game customers are getting more and more picky about the visual qualities of their games. AH was okay when every body in the MA used to know each other, started out from the old WB and AW when graphics were simple. But now we have players who were in their cribs when we were playing flight sim games. These guys became teenagers in the late 90's. They grew up with graphics. When all of us go old and tired, unable to play AH anymore, will the new generation of gamers still stick with AH? Graphically lagging behind times, unfrinedly to new users?
Frankly, IMO, it is only a matter of time before some large company takes interest in WW2 vintage aircraft combat genre... create a big hype, user-friendly websites, cool graphics, simple and easy to access game functions.. and the worst thing is that the younger people are gonna flock to it, rather than stay with AH. We can laugh and scorn all day long, while MA numbers go down one by one. Who'd have ever thought AW or WB would meet such a quick demise? What's there to stop AH from facing the same fate?
IMO, innovations - that's to stop AH from meeting such a fate.
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The help file isn't a tutorial, no a part of the interface, is it?
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This game really isn't hard to figure out... it only took me a few minutes to figure out how to map stick functions, and a few minutes more to get my wheels off the ground. I sucked horribly, but the basics really aren't hard to figure out if you have anything remotely resembling intelligence. And if your spit got outturned by a 47.... it's because you're new and suck (no offense.. we all suck at first), and the 47 wasn't.
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Originally posted by Golfer
The flying aspect of the game isn't terribly difficult to comprehend. There is auto-takeoff for goodness sake...use it if that's a problem.
Hell, I've been playing this game for years and I use auto-takeoff :p Cuts down on the number of buttons I have to push.
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You think AH is difficult to comprehend? Try Lock On Modern Air Combat! Took my several days just to figure out how to launch a missle. Every freaking plane has it's own weapons systems, and every weapons systems takes hours/days to figure out. AH is cake, man, point and click.
There is a link in the AH start menu entitled "Getting started with AH". If that's not a tutorial, I'll be a monkeys uncle. I'll agree on the interactive mouse-over tips on ingame stuff though. But I'd rather they finish TOD 1st. And add some more graphics eye candy, etc....
Skevj, you've found the tutorial. It's the community :aok
g00b
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AND HOW THE FUDGE I GET OUTTURNED BY A P47 IN A SPITFIRE??? TELL ME THAT???
Little trolling going on here.
This isn't a new guy. Infact his first account was back in 2003.
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A solid tutorial is something HT could farm out ... you can do some pretty awesome stuff with Flash these days (video, etc), which is gobs easier than integrating such a thing into the coad.
There is lots of good help out there ... Soda's plane analysis page is a great one. Problem is finding it all and then taking so many points of view and coming up with a good notion of "what to do" isn't so easy.
And there are two kinds of help being discussed here - one is basic game mechanics, and the other is tactics and survival skills. The former is pretty easy, the latter isn't. I used to give online help sessions in AW (many, many, many moons ago ... GEnie days) and getting people thinking the right way isn't always a quick process.
Maybe I'll start importing some of my old help files into my Wiki as a starting point.
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Originally posted by hitech
Little trolling going on here.
This isn't a new guy. Infact his first account was back in 2003.
zOMFG!
rofl :rofl :lol
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Originally posted by hitech
Little trolling going on here.
This isn't a new guy. Infact his first account was back in 2003.
LOL PWN3D by the man!:lol
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Troll or not aside, I think some of the points in here hold merit.
Most notably, of course, being Morpheus' excellent newbie tutorial guide.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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skevj
Judging from that last statement and the fact that you said the exact thng this morning to me when my 47n shot down your spit9 after you dove from 5k above me.I would say that your name is........................... ............................. ............................. ............................. ...
REVOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
btw that was a good fight,even better was the spit9 vs 109g2 we had later when you really lashed out at me.
from on noobie to another
CRETON
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Troll or not aside, I think some of the points in here hold merit.
Most notably, of course, being Morpheus' excellent newbie tutorial guide.
-- Todd/Leviathn
I spent an hour or so with him in the TA.
He doesnt sound or know enough of the game to be a troll .. He may have tried ah befor but after showing him the basic ropes of flying he Seams to be getting the how to fly down.
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Originally posted by SkevJ
You guys see this? AH developers are you reading this? This is money right here!!! Money!!!! You have to give the people what they want
You are far in the minority when it comes to wishing to have a RR arena.
ack-ack
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You get RR when you enable auto takeoff and the stallnoob limiter.
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Originally posted by Roscoroo
I spent an hour or so with him in the TA.
He doesnt sound or know enough of the game to be a troll .. He may have tried ah before but after showing him the basic ropes of flying he Seams to be getting the how to fly down.
WTG Rosco. on the time spent as well as the rest of your comments.
Also Levi has the golden post of the thread. Well said sir.
Morph...i give the tutorial a 3.5. Points deducted for bad grammar ans teh spelling. :D
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QUOTE by hitech
"Little trolling going on here.Th is isn't a new guy. Infact his first account was back in 2003".
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey I started in 2003 ! :aok
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Originally posted by Morpheus
Morph's 10 step Tutorial to play teh game!!1oneo!1!
For RR Ezy noob mode:
Step:
1) Click hanger
2) Scroll to teh La7' zOMfg
3) Take teh max 100& fuels
4) Click teh little box with letters for N-S-E-W runway sapwns.
5) Making sure you have stall limiter/auto take off on firewall the biotch not to forget to hit P for weP!
6) You are flying now.
7) Find a red icon. THATs a bad guy! zomFG
8) Fly to teh red icon making sure you are in super warp speed mode and OPEN FIRE!
9) If you miss your shot extend for 25 miles for your saftey.
10) REVERS#E! come back to t-eh red icons and repeat steps 8&9 & 10 if needed untilz you got mad kilz.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Man, you never cease to crack me up! That sounds like the way I play, you been spying on me and are now revealing all of my strategeries.:mad:
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Compare that to a game like World of Warcraft where you just show up, hop in, and within an hour you can have the mechanics of the game fully understood as they literally walk you through an introductory area. I'm not referring to training in the sense of how to become a better pilot, but rather an interface that is accessible to new users without losing the functionality that those of us with experience enjoy.
Just to use an example, take the stick mapping and stick configuration setup. I've had to talk perfectly reasonable, intelligent people through how to use these functions because, while powerful, they were not intuitive and did not feature easily accessible tooltips. Or for another example, why not floating help descriptions when mousing over options in the clipboard menu? How many people are going to figure out that you have to go to the O'Club to do Squad stuff? How many people will know intuitively that you have to invite someone to a squad in order to form a squad the first time?
-- Todd/Leviathn
There's one thing I believe would help the situation a great deal.
A built-in tutorial that walks the new player through the basic steps of getting set up and airborne. Perhaps even making it required to advance through the entire tutorial to unlock the online game. The purpose would be to have noobs show up with at least the minimal skills needed to function. This would also free up trainers to teach noobs what they need to survive and possibly prosper in the MA. As it is now, much trainer time is expended getting new guys off the ground. Rarely does a week go by with me being asked several questions like, "how do I start the engine?", or "Why won't my plane go faster?". Very few noobs actually bother to read the help files.
Many boxed games have a tutorial that must be completed before the game is unlocked. I suspect that this was instituted to reduce the huge number of phone calls and e-mails to their tech people by players who didn't read the help files or manuals, but simply tried to play. Having to complete the tutorial may be annoying for some, but at least they will able to play the game on some minimal level when they finish the program. At this point, the trainers can actually begin teaching them about air combat.
As you point out, this is not an easy game to master. Most of us took years to get to where we are now (and that doesn't mean we still don't stink either, it's just that we now recognize it). However, anything that can jump-start the learning process is a good thing.
My regards,
Widewing
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I think HTC should outsource a learning guide to:
(http://vimages.videoprofessor.com/vpTwo/neoimages/jws_home-flash.jpg)
The Video Professor !
Using our proven "What-You-See-Is-What-You-Do." teaching method, you'll be amazed by how quickly you learn with our CD-ROMs! Get the computer skills you need today with Video Professor.
Fast, simple teaching method!
No classes to attend, no manuals to read! Interactive lessons!
Learn at your own pace!
Lessons play like a video on your PC!
Work in the program you're learning, alongside the Professor!
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Originally posted by hitech
Little trolling going on here.
This isn't a new guy. Infact his first account was back in 2003.
Must be a BK!:aok
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I think the trainers do not get enough credit for their job - they do an amazing job with the resources they have (4-5 guys?). And to bring up the stick setup, here's a thread (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=168143) about TC's efforts to have setups ready for the newbies. Like I said in the e-mail I sent to TC, I appreciate the effort, it should make the beginning a bit easier if you've got a stick setup to use.
I never had any troubles starting my AH-career (but I've been flying flight sims almost all my life - not online, AH was the first online sim for me in Dec'02), but I started my AH-career with my brother (wasq) who had been flying since 2001. He briefed me on the UI (clipboard et all). And it didn't take long to find the Finns, the Finnish guys have been most helpful - thanks guys (I updated the country&radio ch. the Finns are in to Virtualpilots.fi: AH guide (http://www.virtualpilots.fi/games/ah.html), - in Finnish - actually, the AH2 update there is written by me and Kanttori ;)). So what I tried to say.. Find a squad to fly with in the MA, you'll learn a lot with good guys. Try the TA, MA and read some sources (Schatzi had the links listed earlier in this thread), and you're ready to start learning... :)
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many of you are totally wrong.
go HERE (http://www.hitechcreations.com/ahhelp/index.html) and look around some. There IS a step by step walk thru' on what to do.
Look at the Your first flight (http://www.hitechcreations.com/ahgs/fltbasics.html) link. It tells you exactly what to do. Tells you to pick a p51, and explains everything.
I would venture a guess that this is a case of someone not wanting to put the time in to learn. EVERYTHING is explained in the AHHelp link on the main HTC.com page. It even provides illustrations.
My advice would be to read, read, read, read.
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Originally posted by WMLute
I would venture a guess that this is a case of someone not wanting to put the time in to learn.
It's also a matter of people wanting to "play right now!" I have noticed that teenagers generally do not read the help files. I'll ask them if they read through the tutorial on the website, and 9 out of 10 will say "no".
That's why I like the concept of having the tutorial in the software, where it cannot be avoided. Of course, that will take a major effort to code... Not a likely thing with TOD/Combat Tour being the primary focus right now.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by MOSQ
I think HTC should outsource a learning guide to:
(http://vimages.videoprofessor.com/vpTwo/neoimages/jws_home-flash.jpg)
The Video Professor !
Using our proven "What-You-See-Is-What-You-Do." teaching method, you'll be amazed by how quickly you learn with our CD-ROMs! Get the computer skills you need today with Video Professor.
Fast, simple teaching method!
No classes to attend, no manuals to read! Interactive lessons!
Learn at your own pace!
Lessons play like a video on your PC!
Work in the program you're learning, alongside the Professor!
LOL Mosq
:rofl :rofl :lol
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As Skuzzy pointed out, if you want a walk thru with a Trainer email the trainers at
trainers at hitechcreations.com
now recalling on that old dead horse of AirWarrior( AW )
the newbie arena did not come along until Air Warrior Mellinium came out , and it was set on a totally different server than the main arenas of FR and RR...........
it was a concept that was used by both veterans and new players alike, but if you broke your set score you was not able to fly there anymore, you had to move on, and kelly ( cluero ) saw to it you moved over to the main arenas.......
AW did not always have that newbie arena, just to set the record straight, and it might have helped a few there at the end, but for the most part, it was back to the Trainers that did most of the foot work on getting people up and going....
with all that said, Yes I have decided to make something to help the new flyers and old a like regarding game controllers and different ways to set them up as well as downloading and using pre-made/programmed stick settings ( these are for the ones who do not want to take the time to learn how to actually do it)
I know we always here that old saying "2 weeks" but I can promise you all that things are changing and there is some neato stuff coming around the mountain, and hopefuly everyone will enjoy what comes..........is something for everyone to use if they desire............enough now, I leave you all waiting in suspense :D
and if anyone needs help the trainers are here for you, as we always have been...........just drop us an email
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I've seen a lot of "e-mail this" and "go to this webpage" that. Seriously, put yourself in the shoes of a person trying out this game for the first time. It's not somebody who's a flight sim nut, not somebody who has been playing games since Zork or Adventure, and not somebody who knows anything about this game other than seeing it advertised on the Military Channel.
How are you going to know to go to Netaces? How are you going to know to e-mail training@hitechcreations.com? How are you going to know how to start your engine or create a squad? These are such basic things, and it's easy to say that people should read the Help files or online tutorials, but people who do so are exceptions to the rule and not the rule itself. If you make learning part of the process of playing, then you can make new players who might feel uninformed instead feel confident about the mechanics of the game itself. Then they may become frustrated at their air combat competence, but at least it's not frustration at knowing how to set up the stick or create a squad or change convergence (convergence? what's that?!?).
-- Todd/Leviathn
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It is really very simple. All the information is available. It is simply a matter of RTFM!!![/u]
....but seriously....:)
I do know that there is a NEW training manual being written. I believe the delay at the moment is mostly finding the time to proof read and approve it.
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It is really very simple. All the information is available. It is simply a matter of RTFM!!!
The problem is, where the heck can you find the fediddlein' Manual?
Why does a newbie have to come in, and bug other players on country channel to find something like this out? Who made the FM anyway? The users, right? Normally, aren't the game makers responsible for the FM? Why does a newbie have to go net surfing on some voluntary material to find out the basics of the game? I mean, it'd make sense if the newbie wants more complicated info such as learning the basics of fighter combat.
But the basic interface, how to look at clipboards, etc etc.. shouldn't this material be covered in a tutorial? A newbie probably doesn't even know that a help file is included in the game download (or is it?).
Like Levi says, try to think in the newbie's shoes. If possible, try some other on-line games and see how much of on-line/in-game tutorials they try to provide. All of that is parts and parcels of the quality of the game. Quality isn't just about the game itself, at least, in the recent games that is.
A really passionate WW2 flight sim enthusiast, like ourselves, would probably do anything to find out what he needs. However, not all gamers start out as an enthusiast. Many start out as a curious light user. And for these guys, AH can be sometimes so baffling that it can be enough to actually discourage them from signing up. They can't seem to find the info.. all the gamers are annoyed of ppl asking for help so they ignore... the newbie looks around, and all he gets is "go to the X website".. yeah, so they come to FlyAcesHigh.com.. the title logo.. and then what? Do they have to go forums? Do they have to go to downloads? Is there a big fat FAQ or MANUAL sign at the home page that is immediately noticeable?
Soon, the guy gets frustrated, and starts to thin it may not be worthwhile. And that's one customer lost for HTC.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
The problem is, where the heck can you find the fediddlein' Manual?
SRI Kweassa....
Guess I'm just too old school to be PC about this. I do know that AW tried all kinds of stuff (meeting them at the door & scheduled training every night of the week) and the only thing that REALLY had any impact was The Academy. I also know that an AH version of The Academy was in the works a few months ago. My guess is the CT alpha has put it on hold.
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Screw RR arena Give us a MiG and Sabre for the gangbanged country with 600 perks for each. Then no one can say biased FM :D
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Originally posted by Dradz
-- is there a certain arena that is similar to an AW RR arena?
Yes, take a Spitfire MkXVI, set combat trim on, set auto take off, set stall-limiter on and voila' you have a RR arena. Not joking, there are so many players doing it and playing the "bite your tail" style that our MA seems really a RR/training arena.
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The guy figured out where the game can be downloaded and installed.
The guy figured out where the BBS is, how to get himself an account and how to post a rant.
He can figure out where the help file can be found.
BTW, on the startup screen, theres a "HELP" button that sends you directly to HTC help file on homepage.
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Yeah I'd had my account created in 2003 and I am Revor I wont lie about that. I've been playing this game off and on. I never said I was new as you can read on one of my postings asking about a spitfire weakness in the Aircraft and Vehicles and I said I just quit right before they introduced the P47N. I'm not being a troll I'm just speaking for everyone else that is new.
I really like the game but Its just frustrating to me that a P47 can outturn my spit like that. I wasnt trolling and I'm sorry if it may sounded like that.
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Originally posted by SkevJ
I really like the game but Its just frustrating to me that a P47 can outturn my spit like that. I wasnt trolling and I'm sorry if it may sounded like that.
"Know and use all the capabilities of your airplane. If you don't,
sooner or later, some guy who does use them all will kick your ass."
Lieutenant Dave"Preacher"Pace, USN
U.S.Navy Fighter Weapons School Instructor
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"How the hell is anyone supposed to know how their plane performs, when even the plane charts and specs aren't updated for god knows how long?"
Civilian Kweassa, banana
The Institute for People who Grumble All the Time about Trivial Stuff
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I will help ANYONE as long as they;
1. Ask me, or seem so clueless they need assistance. What drives me nuts is the individuals that ask "How do you turn the engine on?" then "How do you move forward?" I want people to meet me halfway.
2. Have an interest and are willing to learn. I remember I ended up talking to one new person on the phone (gave an unknown person my #) and helped him out that way.
----
Spike, btw, you may end up being a good stick, we met in a big tumult last night. If you want help, let me know...
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Here is an idea....
Why doesn't HTC start a new contest, one where the is the one that has his manual for Aces High (in pdf format) accepted for use?
I'd recommend a 'quick start' section in the beginning, a lengthy tutorial, and lastly a basic fighter manuver and tactic section at the end.
Anyone think it is a good idea?
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Originally posted by SkevJ
Yeah I'd had my account created in 2003 and I am Revor I wont lie about that. I've been playing this game off and on. I never said I was new as you can read on one of my postings asking about a spitfire weakness in the Aircraft and Vehicles and I said I just quit right before they introduced the P47N. I'm not being a troll I'm just speaking for everyone else that is new.
I really like the game but Its just frustrating to me that a P47 can outturn my spit like that. I wasnt trolling and I'm sorry if it may sounded like that.
PWNED! by the Creton from the black lagoon! :aok
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New or demo users have little chance of surviving with this product on several
levels..First they get beaten like school teachers in New Orleans on vacation in the MA for the two week trial, and if they like the abuse enough and decide to ask a question on the forum they get stampeded to death like a trip to mecca even by the principles of the company... I disagree with the attitude but its just my opinion..
TJ
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A short film 5-15 mins would be good .. you could have a gremlin pointing out how to config the primary things ,along with cockpit gages ...then a short flight showing the auto take off /pilots . how to maintain and trade energy in manuvers ... then a simple landing .
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Originally posted by SkevJ
how in the heck is this company going to make more money when it doesnt even have a guideline on how to fly or even a newbie arena. Its like AH expects you to be an ace pilot and fly on the bat. Its a shame I have to go to an unoffical website that tells me how to fly. I'm not even having fun with this. I'm more frustrated then having fun. games like Tanarus, Cyberstrike, WoW, and most other online games have a thing called TUTORIAL. LEARN IT.
And you all wonder why you have only 300 people in a arena on a busy night. Newbs like me are just bait to people in that arena who flys over 10 hours a day. I like the two week trial thing but I'm sorry because I'm not paying 15 bucks a month to get my bellybutton kicked and then you record to see what he does and that doesnt teach you anything either because the damn instruments doesnt function properly. This game had potential to be great and a successful heir to Air Warrior(At least they had a newbie arena) but instead you expect only WWII pilots to play this game.
Last time I check games had tutorials. Hell why this game cant have a tutorial? I shouldnt have to ask people all the time what's this? What's that? A guy told me it took him almost 6 months to finally figure what the hell is going on and how to capture things. Why dont you all put a tutorial at the beginning before you play the game about what purpose a Vehicle hangar does and what's the purpose of an Ammo field and etc. This is bad business guys bad business. In order for someone to love the product they have to know it first and it doesnt take an average joe two weeks to learn this game. AND HOW THE FUDGE I GET OUTTURNED BY A P47 IN A SPITFIRE??? TELL ME THAT???
don't feel bad, when i first started playin back in april, i thought " omg..i'll never b able to do this" now...here i am..9months later..and i'm sayin " omg..i'll never b able to do this".
it does get easier, i've learned alot since i first started, there is alot i still need to learn, but if u need help, there r lots of ppl that will help u, u just have to ask and b willing to learn.
good luck to ya <>
~betty~
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Originally posted by Kweassa
"How the hell is anyone supposed to know how their plane performs, when even the plane charts and specs aren't updated for god knows how long?"
Civilian Kweassa, banana
The Institute for People who Grumble All the Time about Trivial Stuff
well geez, Kweassa, the guy said he has been here since 2003? damn how long did it take you to learn something? more than 2 years?
if it is not a troll, it sure looks like one, and if it is not a troll, the guy needs to stop throwing out excuses as to why he got his spitfire outflown by a P47N, it is because he never took the time in the last 2 1/2 to 3 years to figure out the capabilities and weaknesses of his plane verses his opponents plane, for someone who has known or flown Aces High for more than a year this is not hard to do if a person puts forth an effort to immerse himself/herself into learning the freaking game..........and learning about all the different planes, why do you make your speed test and turn comparison data? just to be doing it? NO, you make stuff like this and like others do to help the community........
as for slamming HTC< I am not sticking up for HTC< but they have tried in the past and are trying now to put out stuff to make it more easier for the new comers, now think about that, then think about all the damn wishlist request people ask for, think about all the bugs that they are quick to fix, think about all the *******s in the game that say "hit alt-F4" or "the TA is -------> that way noob"
bull**** remarks because the majority of the people playing the game rather ridicule the newcomers and slap them around than teach them a thing or 2 or offer help to them.
so go on being the "banana" who knows all and what is best, I personally have appreciated your efforts and articles and data you have provided for the community, but then again , I have never appreciated the "none replys" from questions I have asked you about when I ask how do you test to come up with the data you post on these boards. out of all the past 4 or 5 years , everytime I asked a question regarding something you posted or asked how you came up with it, you ignored my questions........
all one has to do is ask a Trainer, or ask the few that offer up help , and then fly each plane, do al little homework and study what each planes capabilities and weaknesses are for each aircraft. This crap has been discussed about planes from day 1, either you want to know and learn all you can or you want to be a whiney lil wet behind the ears greenhorn lemming that just wants to sit and throw out complaints saying , hey that's not fair!" "hey that isn't right, you are cheating" etc etc..........because they to freaking lazy to type a few words in the damn search engine and dig for info..........
all these puter nerds know what Google is, well Aces High has a search engine its ownself to search for some things that are not blatantly pushed in your face, hence the HELP button on the main menu/clipboard when one clicks the icon to log on to Aces High.......
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Originally posted by Delirium
Here is an idea....
Why doesn't HTC start a new contest, one where the is the one that has his manual for Aces High (in pdf format) accepted for use?
I'd recommend a 'quick start' section in the beginning, a lengthy tutorial, and lastly a basic fighter manuver and tactic section at the end.
Anyone think it is a good idea?
although, I have only been in the Trainers group for about a year( oops bout 2 years now) on Aces High, I know we have come along way, and if the community desires to ask HTC to post a contest to let someone in the community to design a Manual , then so be it, either HTC can do this, or they can let us finish what we have started, it doesn't matter to me any more, but instead of throwing a document together in a month or couple of weeks which will not go indepth of everything and bound to have some mistakes or "personal opinions" why not let us have a smidge of time so we can bring the community something that is "very Accurate", Fully indepth in detail" not mislead people, and cover every aspect of the online gaming experience in Aces High........I mean seriously, the rough draft took over 7 months just to complete, now we got to edit, and correct things so there is no mistakes and so everything is Top Notch and covers all details in a well thought out manner and professional looking.
besides the manual, there is 2 or 3 other projects forth coming as well, so either go on with asking HTC to let some contest take place and have peeps try and throw something together, or give us the benefit of the doubt and let us publish a manual like has been needed for such a long time, but will be RIGHT.
all HTC has to do is say the word, and we can wash everything we have been working on under the bridge and forget about it...........
what does the community want? we are here for you, and it is HTC that has requested this for the community, it isn't something someone in the community came up with and asked permission from HTC......
we will leave it up to the rest of you as to what you want........
seriously, yes this stuff should have been completed and done a very long time ago, I have no clue why it was not done, but at this time we are trying very very hard to get something out to the community that all can use and enjoy and appreciate, but just like Rome wasn't built in a day, this game has evolved so much from the 1st 2 years that it takes longer than 1 or 2 months to throw together something that is accurate, is indepth and covers all details, it is coming folks, but please let us have a lil time so it can be done right and not just throwed together, We want it just as much , as bad, and as fast as the rest of the community, but we do not want to throw out an incomplete product, then be laughed at, Thank You for undertsanding, if you do"
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Remember, anybody who posts in this thread is atypical. The mere act of posting puts you in a huge minority of players -- maybe 5 or 10%. Thus using anybody in this thread as an example of how easy or hard the game is to learn fails to pass muster. I'd venture that anybody here who has played for more than a couple of months probably exceeeds the average length of time for new players.
My point is that making the game mechanics more accessible makes it easier for players to jump into learning how to fight. This reduces frustration at learning the interface and allows more time to learn the game. IMO Trainers exist to teach players how to improve at the game, but they should not waste their time teaching players button functions or how to set up a stick or create a squad.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Remember, anybody who posts in this thread is atypical. The mere act of posting puts you in a huge minority of players -- maybe 5 or 10%. Thus using anybody in this thread as an example of how easy or hard the game is to learn fails to pass muster. I'd venture that anybody here who has played for more than a couple of months probably exceeeds the average length of time for new players.
My point is that making the game mechanics more accessible makes it easier for players to jump into learning how to fight. This reduces frustration at learning the interface and allows more time to learn the game. IMO Trainers exist to teach players how to improve at the game, but they should not waste their time teaching players button functions or how to set up a stick or create a squad.
-- Todd/Leviathn
Yes Sir, DMF, I whole heartedly agree with everything you just posted here..........and a lil note to maybe show where we have been trying to come up with something in regards to this, we have discussed already and contemplayed on such a tutorial or process of having new comers go thru a series of steps on setting up sticks, views, understanding gauges etc, we even discussed the use of automated questionaires/test and other things that can be made using java or flash or any type program maybe cgi or what ever to let the student walk thru the begining stages on his own to not take time away from People/Trainers having to sit and spend 2 hours on trying to explain to a newcomer how to set up his stick, maybe keeping all this stuff to our selves and not being public about it, has mislead the community in general to believe nothing is being thought about or done about it to help new flyers. We do talk about this alot, least since I have joined the team, but this stuff discussed in this thread is being discussed/talked about/planned we just kept it secret because if we jumped out and said we going to do this, or we going to do that. The community would want to know....."hey you told us you was going to do this!" where the heck is it, it hasn't been put out for us to use etc.whatever as to those in this thread I think you understand what I am trying to say, we just did not want to put the cart before the horse and then get slammed for not having it available.......
I shouldn't have even said alot of things I mentioned in this thread, that is being worked on, but I felt like the community needed to know HTC and the Trainers and the Terrain designers are working feverishly on trying to bring more to the game for everyone.....
sorry if I was a bit flustered and rude in my earlier post, I want it all NOW too, but it does take a lil bit of time, if we want it done and finished and doen RIGHT.......
~S~
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Originally posted by Dradz
Coming from the old Air Warrior Relaxed Realism experience -- is there a certain arena that is similar to an AW RR arena?
Having come from AW RR - (could never do FR in there without augering-crappy stick and other lame excuses)
It would be a waste of time for you to just do a RR type of game
The setups in AH right now have the availability to set the flight model up to almost the same as AW's RR
Auto Combat trim, stall limiter, auto takeoff, auto climb...
It took me about 2 weeks to get used to the difference from AW RR to AH1
If I can do it, anyone can, I use the cheapest sticks I find, no throttle or rudder pedals - and pretty much everyones favorite target
I still have fun playing the game, I think I do halfway decent with the amount of time and energy I put into it.
But the answer - MA - it actually is very close in comparison to the AW RR arena, and probably because the majority of the players in the MA are former AW players
my 2 cents
NwBie
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There are some very good points in some of these replies.
I especially like the direction of Roscoroo's thinking.
We could (the community) make a series of films covering all the various aspects of the game, complete with voiceover instructions and in-game visuals. No small amount of work, mind, but certainly do-able. Even easier if the thing is done in chapters, by diverse people.
The collected library could then be hosted/posted by HTC on the main website (that would be their contribution, since the HTC resoures are stretched so tight).
Might even be more useful to a noob than text would?
I gotta try editing films, and see if this'll work.
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There are films on the main page under support::films that show basic manuvers like the immel split s barrel roll ect ect they helped me when i started
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Originally posted by TequilaChaser
well geez, Kweassa, the guy said he has been here since 2003? damn how long did it take you to learn something? more than 2 years?
if it is not a troll, it sure looks like one, and if it is not a troll, the guy needs to stop throwing out excuses as to why he got his spitfire outflown by a P47N, it is because he never took the time in the last 2 1/2 to 3 years to figure out the capabilities and weaknesses of his plane verses his opponents plane, for someone who has known or flown Aces High for more than a year this is not hard to do if a person puts forth an effort to immerse himself/herself into learning the freaking game..........and learning about all the different planes, why do you make your speed test and turn comparison data? just to be doing it? NO, you make stuff like this and like others do to help the community........
as for slamming HTC< I am not sticking up for HTC< but they have tried in the past and are trying now to put out stuff to make it more easier for the new comers, now think about that, then think about all the damn wishlist request people ask for, think about all the bugs that they are quick to fix, think about all the *******s in the game that say "hit alt-F4" or "the TA is -------> that way noob"
bull**** remarks because the majority of the people playing the game rather ridicule the newcomers and slap them around than teach them a thing or 2 or offer help to them.
so go on being the "banana" who knows all and what is best, I personally have appreciated your efforts and articles and data you have provided for the community, but then again , I have never appreciated the "none replys" from questions I have asked you about when I ask how do you test to come up with the data you post on these boards. out of all the past 4 or 5 years , everytime I asked a question regarding something you posted or asked how you came up with it, you ignored my questions........
all one has to do is ask a Trainer, or ask the few that offer up help , and then fly each plane, do al little homework and study what each planes capabilities and weaknesses are for each aircraft. This crap has been discussed about planes from day 1, either you want to know and learn all you can or you want to be a whiney lil wet behind the ears greenhorn lemming that just wants to sit and throw out complaints saying , hey that's not fair!" "hey that isn't right, you are cheating" etc etc..........because they to freaking lazy to type a few words in the damn search engine and dig for info..........
all these puter nerds know what Google is, well Aces High has a search engine its ownself to search for some things that are not blatantly pushed in your face, hence the HELP button on the main menu/clipboard when one clicks the icon to log on to Aces High.......
First of all you need to calm the hell down and second of all yeah I've been a member since 2003 but that doesnt mean I've been playing all this time. I've only played a total of 3 months between then and now so I'm still a newbie to this game plus with the changes that have been made it makes it very difficult to keep up. First I installed AH1, then later I found they made an upgrade to 2, then this. I havent been keeping up with what's going on so get your facts straight before you start to typing with those chubby fingers of yours. BTW how do you nerds say it??? Pawned? or something like that?
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Combat Tour, as a part of it's gameplay, will have a cadet go through basic training before he can sign up for actual missions. For instance, touch-and-gos and basic target practice.
Once this is done we plan to port a portion over to AH2 as a simple, start-up walkthrough. Just enough to know which buttons to push and where all the controls are - but nothing nearly so detailed as air tactics for specific planes. For that, we thankfully rely on our trainers.
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To be just a newbee here you Have to learn.....
Your plane
Enemies plane
Fighter tactics
Boom and Zoom
Turn & Burn
Energy Fighting
Your guns
The Zen of Dogfighting
IF you want to avoid all these, just grub a SpitUfo from the last Starwars and go to the arena.
If again after 1-2 weeks you cant kill anything, you just SUCK.
Go play doom.
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I've only played a total of 3 months between then and now so I'm still a newbie to this game
Well then that explains how a P-47N outturned your Spit. You also have to take in consideration ... who was flying the Jug ... not just the machine.
Also, do you have "Stall Limiter" turned on ?
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The online help off the HTC home page isn't all that bad as a game manual. And were this a standalone game it'd probably suffice. But it doesn't come close to preparing a newbie for what he'll see in the MA. Even simple stuff like:
... How much fuel to load (incl. use of drop tanks) ...
... How much ammo to load (mainly P47's and P38's here) ...
... When and how to use flaps ...
... Convergence settings and application ...
... can have a huge impact on a player's success in the air. Its stuff we don't even think about anymore. And it varies from plane to plane.
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
It is really very simple. All the information is available. It is simply a matter of RTFM!!![/u]
Originally posted by Schatzi
The guy figured out where the game can be downloaded and installed.
The guy figured out where the BBS is, how to get himself an account and how to post a rant.
He can figure out where the help file can be found.
BTW, on the startup screen, theres a "HELP" button that sends you directly to HTC help file on homepage.
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
I've seen a lot of "e-mail this" and "go to this webpage" that. Seriously, put yourself in the shoes of a person trying out this game for the first time. It's not somebody who's a flight sim nut, not somebody who has been playing games since Zork or Adventure, and not somebody who knows anything about this game other than seeing it advertised on the Military Channel.
Todd/Leviathn
Exactly DMF. Some of use doesn’t understand what you are trying to propose.
Correct me if I am wrong. But I think you proposing an IN-game style interactive tutorial. Kind of a Point and click what does this do. Yes?
With this style of tutorial you will have the newest of the new enjoying the game right from the get go. At least the frustration of getting shot down will not be compounded by the forest of info found in multiple websites and or pages required to understand how to use the game interface.
I know…I know…America has forgotten how to read and or don’t want to take time out to do it. But the fact is. Much of the gaming competition has spoiled us by making the game interface learning experience an In-game experience.
I think it would be an excellent addition to the game.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
The online help off the HTC home page isn't all that bad as a game manual. And were this a standalone game it'd probably suffice. But it doesn't come close to preparing a newbie for what he'll see in the MA. Even simple stuff like:
... How much fuel to load (incl. use of drop tanks) ...
... How much ammo to load (mainly P47's and P38's here) ...
... When and how to use flaps ...
... Convergence settings and application ...
... can have a huge impact on a player's success in the air. Its stuff we don't even think about anymore. And it varies from plane to plane.
True. Learn something new in AH every day. Still holds true for me after over a year in this game (and great trainers/squaddies that constantly fed my enquiring mind). But i dont think that could be stuff covered in a tutorial.
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"Its just frustrating to me that a P47 can outturn my spit like that."
Something tells me if you are so completely unaware of how that could happen then you'd be outmanevuered by a parked T-34 too.
In real life pilots got assigned to fighters, bombers and/or cargo types on the basis of thier skill and abilities. BUT! In the game/simulation Aces High anyone can miraculously buy thier fighter-pilot wings for the measely sum of just $14.95/month - skill or ability however is NOT included with the software..
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Originally posted by Schatzi
True. Learn something new in AH every day. Still holds true for me after over a year in this game (and great trainers/squaddies that constantly fed my enquiring mind). But i dont think that could be stuff covered in a tutorial.
Well, in a way it could. It'd be kind of like a balloon-help deal ... like a "Pro Tip" which explained what the typical fuel load or ammo load-outs were in the MA for the plane the user had selected. Maybe not in a tutorial, but integrated into the game itself in the hangar when in "newbee seal mode."
Or like when they selected bombs or rockets, a balloon help could show it's icon which told them that there's a ez-mode bomb site available offline to practice with (I didn't find out about this feature until this year ... duh). Ditto for the LC sight offline for gunney practice.
A lot could be done without really adding much weight to the actual game executable.
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Originally posted by SkevJ
First of all you need to calm the hell down
ok Lemming, I did not address my reply to you, but since you want to quote me, please read below the thread you quoted of me and see where I apologize for coming off being rude and flustered, second take your own advice in calming down instead of coming on the boards flaming away about why you are unable to beat a P47N with your spit fire, in the amount of time you took to start this thread and reply to it, you could have spent less time reading up about both plane types and realize 1st hand yourself why you allowed your 6 to get waxed...........to add, a certian plane type can only do certian things, but only if the pilot pushing the plane can make it do them, hence quit complaining and start training....
and second of all yeah I've been a member since 2003 but that doesnt mean I've been playing all this time. I've only played a total of 3 months between then and now so I'm still a newbie to this game plus with the changes that have been made it makes it very difficult to keep up.
First I installed AH1, then later I found they made an upgrade to 2, then this.
everytime HTC comes out with a new patch, they include a readme file that explains every change that has taken place, and seeing how you are a member of this board, I find it very hard to believe that you have not kept up on the goings on about AH1 and now AH2 and all the changes, this doesn't wash, seems like another excuse....
I havent been keeping up with what's going on so get your facts straight before you start to typing with those chubby fingers of yours.
wow, you know me real well, I am not fat, I do not have chubby fingers, and I am no internet tough guy, I am as I have always been, here to help you, but why should I along with anyone else have to sit and listen to someone complain, when that someone thinks if he flys a magical spit he can defeat all...... seems instead of blasting away at this game, you should be learning it and keepng up or reading up on the changes.........but remember, I did not address you, I was talking to Kweassa, and a thread or so later I apologized for my quick rude response............ you are the one who started the thread, you then are the same lemming that quoted me then attacked me, and now you are still throwing up excuses why you got your but waxed by a suposedly inferior plane, being as you was in the uber dweebfire ride.......
BTW how do you nerds say it??? Pawned? or something like that?
if anyone has been pawned it is you my dear Lemming, nuff said.........
but remember, even though you prob never will now, seeings how you prob got a mental picture of me being some rude arse person, just remember I am always willing to help anyone I can in any aspect of the game they may be finding difficulty to overcome, including you SkevJ/Revor or what ever name you might be using now.......
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A RR arena? I find the concept most INtriguing.
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flaps, speed, and inticipation....that's how you out turn someone. though for how long is another question:D oh and flat turn usually bad.
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I can understand the frustration for Newbies in the beginning. But for me, I was lucky enough to find a couple guys that had been around and they taught (Still teach me,
Jam, USMCNav & Slammer) all the stuff that isnt easily explained. Plus being introduced into a squad was a major step for me since I was horrible at 1st. The Bops have a ton of guys that helped me get better and picked up new things almost every day.
I know it blows to play a game that is so technical and it seems like your all alone in a giant fish bowl. Asking questions on Country channel or flying with guys that are willing to spend time to help you is the 1st place to start. Crying and whining isnt......
I know there are some new guys with the Bishops that made their own squad and they all fly together. Might be a good thing to do so newbies all fly and learn the game with other newbies and get training. Would make sense to me.
AHers!
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See Rule #4
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Best advice I got many years ago when I played Air warrior for the first time.
First...learn to fly without killing yourself. Then worry about shooting someone else down.
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quote:
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Originally posted by SkevJ
First of all you need to calm the hell down
ok Lemming, I did not address my reply to you, but since you want to quote me, please read below the thread you quoted of me and see where I apologize for coming off being rude and flustered, second take your own advice in calming down instead of coming on the boards flaming away about why you are unable to beat a P47N with your spit fire, in the amount of time you took to start this thread and reply to it, you could have spent less time reading up about both plane types and realize 1st hand yourself why you allowed your 6 to get waxed...........to add, a certian plane type can only do certian things, but only if the pilot pushing the plane can make it do them, hence quit complaining and start training....
and second of all yeah I've been a member since 2003 but that doesnt mean I've been playing all this time. I've only played a total of 3 months between then and now so I'm still a newbie to this game plus with the changes that have been made it makes it very difficult to keep up.
First I installed AH1, then later I found they made an upgrade to 2, then this.
everytime HTC comes out with a new patch, they include a readme file that explains every change that has taken place, and seeing how you are a member of this board, I find it very hard to believe that you have not kept up on the goings on about AH1 and now AH2 and all the changes, this doesn't wash, seems like another excuse....
I havent been keeping up with what's going on so get your facts straight before you start to typing with those chubby fingers of yours.
wow, you know me real well, I am not fat, I do not have chubby fingers, and I am no internet tough guy, I am as I have always been, here to help you, but why should I along with anyone else have to sit and listen to someone complain, when that someone thinks if he flys a magical spit he can defeat all...... seems instead of blasting away at this game, you should be learning it and keepng up or reading up on the changes.........but remember, I did not address you, I was talking to Kweassa, and a thread or so later I apologized for my quick rude response............ you are the one who started the thread, you then are the same lemming that quoted me then attacked me, and now you are still throwing up excuses why you got your but waxed by a suposedly inferior plane, being as you was in the uber dweebfire ride.......
BTW how do you nerds say it??? Pawned? or something like that?
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if anyone has been pawned it is you my dear Lemming, nuff said.........
but remember, even though you prob never will now, seeings how you prob got a mental picture of me being some rude arse person, just remember I am always willing to help anyone I can in any aspect of the game they may be finding difficulty to overcome, including you SkevJ/Revor or what ever name you might be using now......." Tequila Chaser
TC. Well said.
Revor it isn't enough you come here crying after giving what appears to be minimal effort, but then you choose to insult one of the more respected flyers/ posters in the community. This is a guy who gives an incredible amount of HIS time to this community for FREE. You have a lot of nerve pal.
Here's a little advice from an old Marine. "Suck it up! Shut up and Stay up!...or we don't need you around!"
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Originally posted by SkevJ
how in the heck is this company going to make more money when it doesnt even have a guideline on how to fly or even a newbie arena. Its like AH expects you to be an ace pilot and fly on the bat. Its a shame I have to go to an unoffical website that tells me how to fly. I'm not even having fun with this. I'm more frustrated then having fun. games like Tanarus, Cyberstrike, WoW, and most other online games have a thing called TUTORIAL. LEARN IT.
And you all wonder why you have only 300 people in a arena on a busy night. Newbs like me are just bait to people in that arena who flys over 10 hours a day. I like the two week trial thing but I'm sorry because I'm not paying 15 bucks a month to get my bellybutton kicked and then you record to see what he does and that doesnt teach you anything either because the damn instruments doesnt function properly. This game had potential to be great and a successful heir to Air Warrior(At least they had a newbie arena) but instead you expect only WWII pilots to play this game.
Last time I check games had tutorials. Hell why this game cant have a tutorial? I shouldnt have to ask people all the time what's this? What's that? A guy told me it took him almost 6 months to finally figure what the hell is going on and how to capture things. Why dont you all put a tutorial at the beginning before you play the game about what purpose a Vehicle hangar does and what's the purpose of an Ammo field and etc. This is bad business guys bad business. In order for someone to love the product they have to know it first and it doesnt take an average joe two weeks to learn this game. AND HOW THE FUDGE I GET OUTTURNED BY A P47 IN A SPITFIRE??? TELL ME THAT???
Dude, I'll speak to u using examples. I just got SW battlefront 2 yesterday, and havent tried online yet. Now, as u may know, theres really nothing needed to LEARN to be able to play, just stand around a CP to capture and kill kill kill.
Now, if I play that online, I WILL get pwned by almost everyone there that has played the game since it came out, even tho I knew all the mechanics. Why is that? Because they have more PRACTICE. Mechanics of the game are immaterial.
This goes for any game out there, like CS or Quake and I doubt u can deny that. A newb is exactly that. NEW. Everyone else is more experienced, so even tho the newb knows the mechanics, he still gets pwned.
Now, this is exactly the same in here. When I first logged on here, even tho I played some sims before, and had a friend who played this game b4 explain everything to me, do u think I wasn't getting shot down 90% of the time?
Now the reason most ppl get turned off from AH is because most ppl dont like sims - they would rather play fps or rts. It's harsh, but its true. If u teach a newb about all the mechanincs, they will still get shot down, and still get frustrated. It takes time to learn to how to fly and when to fly a certain way. Newbs don't know that and consequently get killed by ppl who do. If the newb likes to fly virtual planes, then he stays and learns, if not then he leaves. Nothing we can do about that because even tho lots of ppl are helpful around here, fact remains he might not enjoy flying, so why shud he pay $15 to do something he doesnt enjoy?
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http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=168806
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Originally posted by BBQ_Bob
[B
Hey I started in 2003 ! :aok [/B]
and you still sux ;)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-436427148825118493&q=aces+high
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Try fying H2H.
Less Pilots, and more tiime to train others, The MA is like a big city with gangs, not in with a gang your just a tourist.
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I think that if a mission editor could be made to run off line with AI ac and "mission notes" which are clicked up or generated against way points or both..............
a very nice set of training manuals could be made and filed as missions so that players can choose the lesson they want....................
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Originally posted by hitech
Little trolling going on here.
This isn't a new guy. Infact his first account was back in 2003.
I was gonna say RTFM, but now i'm thinkin ADHD