Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Mickey1992 on January 12, 2006, 02:38:02 PM
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This scum kept people second-guessing his guilt for more than two decades. Finally the victim's family can get some peace of mind.
I just had a death penalty discussion with someone last month and they used this case to prove that the death penalty was wrong and they were 100% sure that DNA would prove his innocence. Kudos to the Governor for ordering the tests when the state supreme court refused to finally put the nail on his coffin.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060112/ap_on_re_us/execution_dna
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DNA Tests Confirm Executed Va. Man Guilty
By KRISTEN GELINEAU, Associated Press Writer 6 minutes ago
RICHMOND, Va. - New DNA tests confirmed the guilt of a man who went to his death in Virginia's electric chair in 1992 proclaiming his innocence, the governor said Thursday.
The case had been closely watched by both sides in the death penalty debate because no executed convict in the United States has ever been exonerated by scientific testing.
The tests, ordered by the governor last month, prove Roger Keith Coleman was guilty of the 1981 rape and murder of his sister-in-law, Gov. Mark R. Warner said.
Coleman was convicted and sentenced to death in 1982 for the murder of 19-year-old Wanda McCoy, his wife's sister, who was found raped, stabbed and nearly beheaded in her home in the coal mining town of Grundy.
The report from the Centre of Forensic Sciences in Toronto concluded there was almost no conceivable doubt that Coleman was the source of the sperm found in the victim.
"The probability that a randomly selected individual unrelated to Roger Coleman would coincidentally share the observed DNA profile is estimated to be 1 in 19 million," the report said.
A finding of innocence would have been explosive news and almost certainly would have had a powerful effect on the public's attitude toward capital punishment. Death penalty opponents have argued for years that the risk of a grave and irreversible mistake by the criminal justice system is too great to allow capital punishment.
"We have sought the truth using DNA technology not available at the time the commonwealth carried out the ultimate criminal sanction," Warner said in a statement. "The confirmation that Roger Coleman's DNA was present reaffirms the verdict and the sanction. Again, my prayers are with the family of Wanda McCoy at this time."
Initial DNA and blood tests in 1990 placed Coleman within the 0.2 percent of the population who could have produced the semen at the crime scene. But his lawyers said the expert they hired to conduct those initial DNA tests misinterpreted the results.
The governor agreed to a new round of more sophisticated DNA tests in one of his last official acts. Warner, who has been mentioned as a possible Democratic candidate for president in 2008, leaves office on Saturday.
Coleman's case drew international attention as the well-spoken inmate pleaded his case on talk shows and in magazines and newspapers. Time magazine featured the coal miner on its cover.
Pope John Paul II tried to block the execution. Then-Gov. L. Douglas Wilder's office was flooded with thousands of calls and letters of protest from around the world.
Coleman's attorneys argued that he did not have time to commit the crime, that tests showed semen from two men was found inside McCoy and that another man bragged about murdering her.
"An innocent man is going to be murdered tonight," the 33-year-old said moments before he was electrocuted on May 20, 1992. "When my innocence is proven, I hope America will realize the injustice of the death penalty as all other civilized countries have."
Four newspapers and Centurion Ministries, a New Jersey organization that investigated Coleman's case and became convinced of his innocence, sought a court order to have the evidence retested. The Virginia Supreme Court declined to order the testing in 2002, so Centurion Ministries asked Warner to intervene.
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Wachootawkinbout?
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Anti-Death penalty advocates are silent today...
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Few years ago someone said "Thou shalt not kill any living thing,' for life is given to all by God, and that which God has given, let not man taketh it away".
Anyone know who that was?
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...or care?
Its funny how the guilty have a way of clinging to the Bible quickly when the shining blade of justice is about to whack em.
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Originally posted by Staga
Few years ago someone said "Thou shalt not kill any living thing,' for life is given to all by God, and that which God has given, let not man taketh it away".
Anyone know who that was?
ya the same guy that told some king to go to this land and kill all the people every man woman and child then go to this other land and do the same thing.
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I still want to know why my tax dollars went to do a dna test to prove weather or not he was innocent AFTER they exicuted him.
Seems liek a waste of money to me, not like he can sit back and be happy about it.
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The death penalty remains as a blight on our society. It demeans us as a people and does nothing to reduce the rate of murder or other capital crimes. Life without parole meets all the needs of the community and as a bonus eliminates the risk of killing the innocent.
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The death penalty remains as a blight on our society. It demeans us as a people and does nothing to reduce the rate of murder or other capital crimes. Life without parole meets all the needs of the community and as a bonus eliminates the risk of killing the innocent.
We've had this discussion before.
In that discussion, we concluded that the Death Penalty is not used enough to determine whether or not it is a deterrant.
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I would be willing to bet that every state has a monument to correctional staff that have been killed in the line of duty. Ours is in Orient, Ohio.
On it is the name of a friend and coworker who was killed by a convicted murderer who had his original death sentence commuted to life without parole.
Life without parole does not eliminate the risk that innocent people will be killed.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
We've had this discussion before.
In that discussion, we concluded that the Death Penalty is not used enough to determine whether or not it is a deterrant.
lol
WE?
:aok
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Yes, we did. (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=165925&highlight=Death+Penalty)
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MT,
Several members of my family, including my brother and myself, work with these perps on a daily basis.
Every single correctional officer of my acquaintance will tell you the same thing about the murderers on death-row...all proclaim their innocence, no matter how damning the evidence against them. They all have a sob story to tell to the press, or any one gullible enough to swallow their guff. Some have developed a taste for blood and death, and will kill on a whim. They will remain dangerous until the day they die.
Case in point: One scumbag kidnapped a young teenage girl and her boyfriend. After brutally raping the girl he attempted to kill them both. The boy was murdered, but the girl survived the incident and testified at his subsequent trial.
After being found guilty, the parents of the boy pleaded for the perp's life, not wishing that anyone else should die. Life in prison would be sufficient punishment. The judge granted their request.
Six weeks later he broke out of Cummins prison, broke into the home of an off-duty policement living in the area, stole one of his guns, surprised the man when he arrived home, forced the man to get on his knees, and killed him.
This obscene beast later stole a car in Missouri, killing the woman who owned it, fled at high speed from police pursuit, attempting to run over officers at a roadblock, and was finally apprehended after crashing the car.
He is currently back in prison...this time on death row.
I don't want to see an innocent man executed anymore than you do. The guidelines for sentencing a man to death could be modified to prevent execution except in cases where there was conclusive DNA proof that the accused committed the crime.
Death penalty opponents constantly challenge its defenders to "prove" that it reduces the murder rate. I challenge you to "prove" that it doesn't.
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So.... do you know what monday is?
Why are there a disproportionate amount of black men on death row?
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Originally posted by BluKitty
Why are there a disproportionate amount of black men on death row?
Because not everyone can afford to get away with murder?
(http://news.aunz.yimg.com/xp/reuters/20051004/00/3880696057.jpg)
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glad you understand more or less.....
I wonder if Katrina managed to teach anyone anything about our so called great society.
o/` o/` o/` Money, money, money, moooooney; MOOONEEEY o/`o/`o/`
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Whoa bub, don't go pinning any labels on me.
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Blukitty,
There are a disproportionate number of black men on death row because criminal activity is far more pervasive in our country's black communities than in those of any other ethnic group. Black-on-black crime is a scourge that continues to fill the country's prisons and hampers the economic and educational advancement of blacks nationwide.
Whether this is due to the latent effects of racism, drug abuse, poverty, gangbanger sociopaths, or a combination of all of them is beside the point.
The majority of the inmates in our prisons are there because they have committed crimes, regardless of their color.
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I believe in the death penalty. If a man kills other people he should die. What bothers me is corruption in the system using the death penalty to murder. You all must know about whitey bulger, the infamous brother of the once all mighty speaker of the house here in massachusetts. He managed to frame 3 small time bookies for murder, and they were sentenced to death. They were spared when the death penalty was repealed. One died in prison (if I remember correctly) and the others were finally set free. If the death penalty had not been repealed, they would have been executed.
I can think of no greater crime than that of the government executing innocent men.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
does nothing to reduce the rate of murder or other capital crimes
It has proven to be 100% successful in preventing recidivism, however.
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Anyone remember the show Benson?
I've been hoping for years to see a movie about OJ & Nicole played by Benson & Krause
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who else believes revenge killing shouldnt be considered murder? I feel if someone kills one of your family members, and you kill them....you shouldnt be charged with murder.
I understand the law, I just wan't to know how others might think on a moral level.
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Originally posted by Shuckins
Blukitty,
There are a disproportionate number of black men on death row because criminal activity is far more pervasive in our country's black communities than in those of any other ethnic group. Black-on-black crime is a scourge that continues to fill the country's prisons and hampers the economic and educational advancement of blacks nationwide.
Whether this is due to the latent effects of racism, drug abuse, poverty, gangbanger sociopaths, or a combination of all of them is beside the point.
The majority of the inmates in our prisons are there because they have committed crimes, regardless of their color.
Too frkn true.
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Well, there are still executions on innocents. Can't remember the numbers but it counts by some dozens. Funny that the Europeans don't seem to need the execution to lower crime rate, while crime rate stays lower than in the US.
Me confuzed :eek:
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Hehe, Whitey Bulger...he even hit the Mass. Lottery one time.
Sixpence, my wife grew up in the Winter Hill section.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
The death penalty remains as a blight on our society. It demeans us as a people and does nothing to reduce the rate of murder or other capital crimes. Life without parole meets all the needs of the community and as a bonus eliminates the risk of killing the innocent.
It's not called capitol deterrance, it's called capitol punishment.
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MT... it is not that uncommon for life without parole prisoners to commit crimes while in prison up to and including murder.. they can order murders from their jail cell and have in the past.
If the death penalty is not a deterent then why do they all fight to stay alive for so long ?
sure... you could keep them in solitary confinement or a even worse cage but... what does that say about a society? One that would put a rabid dog down mercifully compared to one that would torture such a creature for the rest of it's life?
lazs
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Anyone else find it funny how everyone is just pulling stat's out of their bums?
71 People Executed in 2002.
The following stats are for all time since 1976:
99% of people executed are Male.
51% of the victims were Male.
57% of the people executed were White. 34% were black. 6% were latino.
80% of the victims were White. 13% were black. 4% latino.
There are 3459 people on death row (at the time of printing this article)
42% black, 46% white, and 10 % latino.
http://www.naacpldf.org/content/pdf/pubs/drusa/DRUSA_Spring_2005.pdf
Am I the only one who has done a little research here? (I know sandy has done a little)
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How does that compare to the "color" distribution of the nation?
And any idea of confirmed executions of people later proven innocent?
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white 81.7%, black 12.9%, Asian 4.2%
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Originally posted by Stringer
Hehe, Whitey Bulger...he even hit the Mass. Lottery one time.
Sixpence, my wife grew up in the Winter Hill section.
Actually, I believe the ticket belonged to someone who owed him money, so he made him an offer he couldn't refuse. He even managed to bully someone out of their liquor store. The Boston globe had a series on him a few years ago that was a great read.
One of my first jobs in the P.O. was in somerville, tell your wife it has changed alot. Those old three deckers over by tufts are going for 700k, imagine that? You could have picked one up 30 years ago for 15k. Also, Davis square is all redone, they rebuilt the T station, rebuilt the theater, there is a swing dance club that has become real popular, the whole square is a happening place now.
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ted bundy will not kill again.
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I dont understand why so many prosecutors so vehemently fight against providing state paid for DNA tests that might prove the innocence of a convict.
In the Coleman case the guy was already dead, so the benefit would have been more political, but it would have opened a few eyes had he been found innocent.
As usual I see the OJ case brought up, but let me tell you that is an annomoly, in the vast majority of cases the defendant has a fraction of the resources available
to the prosecution.
The only reason that I oppose the death penalty is not because I dont believe that there are people out there that deserve it, its because I have seen the system break down and convict the innocent.
shamus
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Sixpence,
My wife used to work at the Harvard Health in Davis Square. I remember when that Harvard Health was just built, right near or beside the theatre if I remember right. Also there used to be a club there that used to have jazz. It was across the street, but I can't remember the name.
Her parents still live there and own a 6 family and a couple of two families off of Broadway. They've owned them for years.
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Originally posted by john9001
ted bundy will not kill again.
To bad we can not say the same thing for Ted Kennedy....
Then again the DNC prolly makes sure he has a sober driver with him at all times!
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Yep staga... whites are executed at a far higher rate than blacks.
lazs
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First of all life in prison does not automatically give you a license to kill in prison. I wonder how many shivs have been delivered by prisoners who are serving less than life? Silly argument really. California has a special prison for the bad ones, it ain't pleasant.
Secondly I think we need to compare the per capita murder rates in States with the death penalty and without. You can argue all you want about how it's done too infrequently or it should be quicker or whatever... but if the murder rate in DP states is higher then why kill prisoners? Retribution is a juvenile thing for a State to do. Everything should be geared toward making the State a safer place to live. If killing one murderer doesn't prevent murder than it is just foolish.
TEN WORST STATES FOR MURDER, 2003 PER 100,000
(1) Louisiana 13.0
(2) Maryland 9.5
(3) Mississippi 9.3
(4) Nevada 8.8
(5) Arizona 7.9
(6) Georgia 7.6
(7) South Carolina 7.2
(8) California 6.8
(9) Tennessee 6.8
(10) Alabama 6.6
TEN SAFEST STATES FOR MURDER, 2003 PER 100,000
(1) Maine 1.2 (no DP)
(2) South Dakota 1.3
(3) New Hampshire 1.4
(4) Iowa 1.6 (no DP)
(5) Hawaii 1.7 (no DP)
(6) Idaho 1.8
(7) North Dakota 1.9 (no DP)
(8) Oregon 1.9
(9) Massachusetts 2.2 (no DP)
(10) Rhode Island 2.3 (no DP)
So ALL of the ten worst states for murder have the death penalty... while 6 of the ten safest states (lowest murder rate) do not have the death penalty.
Booyah!
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Originally posted by lazs2
Yep staga... whites are executed at a far higher rate than blacks.
lazs
Thats not true, none of them are white when they get out of the chair
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MT,
There is more behind the murder rates in the states listed than the presence or absence of the death penalty and you damn well know it...or at least you should.
There is probably a stronger correlation between the murder rate and the percentage of the state's population that lives in proverty-stricken, gang-infested, inner-city, or drug-abuse plagued areas.
The death penalty is in place in the states you listed because the citizens are fed up with violent crime and murder. Their hopes that capital punishment would have an impact on these problems is constantly subverted by death penalty opponents and lawyers who make it extremely difficult to implement, even in cases where there is no question of its justification.
So Booyah yourself
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Originally posted by Debonair
Wachootawkinbout?
LOL,
Am I the only one who thought that this was funny or got it?
eskimo
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I wonder if the death penalty can be explained in the "10 worst states" by noting that there is a large population of blacks living in the inner city ( = lots of violence), and a seperate population of wealthy, "conservative" voters. I know this is true in Maryland, Baltimore is usually 1st or 2nd in the "****tiest city to live in" sweepstakes (flipflopping with Detroit), but we also have a couple of the wealthiest counties in the country within a half hour drive of Baltimore.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Retribution is a juvenile thing for a State to do.
Retribution by the State? I don't think so. It's the duty of the State to its citizens prevent recidivism, that's all.
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Originally posted by BluKitty
So.... do you know what monday is?
A Day off;)
Same as Thursday is....A day off:lol
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Originally posted by BluKitty
So.... do you know what monday is?
Why are there a disproportionate amount of black men on death row?
Because a disproportionate amount of black men commit crimes?
Just a thought.
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Originally posted by Donzo
Because a disproportionate amount of black men commit crimes?
Just a thought.
I'll agree to that. Or at least get caught at it.
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Mt... your figures are correct... those states with death penalties have the highest murder rates... the murder rates in those states do drop tho for every execution done... it is a small drop but it does drop... there are few executions tho... if the amount of executions went up then so would the percent reduction theoreticaly..
now... you admit that the most savage around us can still commit murder in prison if they are allowed to live rather than be executed. You are admitting that everything else asside.... the death penalty saves lives.
I do not believe in torture... that is a liberal thing.. they love to screw with peoples heads not me.. these murderers are rabid dogs and deserve no less consideration from an enlightened society than the real dogs do... we should put them down mercifully. Why do you insist on cageing and torturing them for the rest of their life?
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
Yep staga... whites are executed at a far higher rate than blacks.
lazs
Well math never wasn't my favourite in school.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
First of all life in prison does not automatically give you a license to kill in prison. I wonder how many shivs have been delivered by prisoners who are serving less than life? Silly argument really. California has a special prison for the bad ones, it ain't pleasant.
Secondly I think we need to compare the per capita murder rates in States with the death penalty and without. You can argue all you want about how it's done too infrequently or it should be quicker or whatever... but if the murder rate in DP states is higher then why kill prisoners? Retribution is a juvenile thing for a State to do. Everything should be geared toward making the State a safer place to live. If killing one murderer doesn't prevent murder than it is just foolish.
TEN WORST STATES FOR MURDER, 2003 PER 100,000
(1) Louisiana 13.0
(2) Maryland 9.5
(3) Mississippi 9.3
(4) Nevada 8.8
(5) Arizona 7.9
(6) Georgia 7.6
(7) South Carolina 7.2
(8) California 6.8
(9) Tennessee 6.8
(10) Alabama 6.6
TEN SAFEST STATES FOR MURDER, 2003 PER 100,000
(1) Maine 1.2 (no DP)
(2) South Dakota 1.3
(3) New Hampshire 1.4
(4) Iowa 1.6 (no DP)
(5) Hawaii 1.7 (no DP)
(6) Idaho 1.8
(7) North Dakota 1.9 (no DP)
(8) Oregon 1.9
(9) Massachusetts 2.2 (no DP)
(10) Rhode Island 2.3 (no DP)
So ALL of the ten worst states for murder have the death penalty... while 6 of the ten safest states (lowest murder rate) do not have the death penalty.
Booyah!
MT can you give us the % of blacks living in each of those 10 worst and 10 best murder states?
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Anti-Death penalty advocates are silent today...
That's because a single case of a guy who claimed to be innocent and was shown to be lying automatically invalidates every single anti-DP argument in a stroke.
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Hi Staga,
Originally posted by Staga
Few years ago someone said "Thou shalt not kill any living thing,' for life is given to all by God, and that which God has given, let not man taketh it away".
Anyone know who that was?
Yes, that was Staga on 01-12-2006 07:47 PM.
Before that it was a man by the name of Gideon Jasper Ouseley a 19th century vegetarian, mystic, and believer in the "ascended masters." The quote is from his book "The Gospel of the Twelve." Ouseley claimed he found the Aramaic text for this "new gospel" in a Tibetan monastery, although mysteriously the actual text has never been seen by anyone but the "translator" - Ouseley. But no, this quote while popular with the PETA crowd is not from the bible. Not surprisingly Ouseley's "Gospel of the Twelve" endorses all of Ouseley's pet causes, including vegetarianism, total abstinence from alcohol, and teaches "communal living" including shared ownership of goods.
The Bible on the other hand, unambiguously endorses Capital punishment in the case of murder both in the New and Old Testaments:
Gen. 9:5 "Surely for your lifeblood I will demand a reckoning; from the hand of every beast I will require it, and from the hand of man. From the hand of every man's brother I will require the life of man.
6 "Whoever sheds man's blood, By man his blood shall be shed; For in the image of God He made man.
Acts 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same.
4 For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.
The reference to the "avenger to execute wrath" hearkens back to the Old Testament judicial law that someone who committed murder would himself be pursued and put to death by either the nearest male relative of the slain individual or someone appointed to fulfill the function by the elders of the city in which the victim dwelt. There are several references to this office - "the avenger of blood", for instance:
Num. 35:16 ' But if he strikes him with an iron implement, so that he dies, he is a murderer; the murderer shall surely be put to death.
17 'And if he strikes him with a stone in the hand, by which one could die, and he does die, he is a murderer; the murderer shall surely be put to death.
18 'Or if he strikes him with a wooden hand weapon, by which one could die, and he does die, he is a murderer; the murderer shall surely be put to death.
19 'The avenger of blood himself shall put the murderer to death; when he meets him, he shall put him to death."
If you are interested in a more thorough look at what kinds of killing are not prohibited in the Bible (self defense, capital punishment, just war, etc.) Take a look at:
The Sixth Commandment, Part 1 (http://www.providencepca.com/sermons/6thpt1.html)
- SEAGOON
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Bad link Seagoon.
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Sorry, link fixed, try it now.
- Seagoon
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Originally posted by Angus
How does that compare to the "color" distribution of the nation?
And any idea of confirmed executions of people later proven innocent?
Name ONE execution of an innocent man (in the last 100 years)
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... could have prevented the recidivism that occurred AFTER this murderer was put in prison and while he was IN prison.
Calif. inmate says he's too old, ill to die (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-01-10-calif-inmate_x.htm)
Allen was convicted in the 1974 murder of a 17-year-old robbery accomplice who had snitched on him. While in prison, he ordered the murders of three witnesses who had testified against him. He was sentenced to death in 1982 for those killings.
BTW, this fine human being got life for his role in killing Mary Sue Kitts.
Clarence was convicted of first degree murder, as well as burglary and conspiracy. He was sentenced to life in prison and ended up in Folsom
It was while he was in Folsom that he ordered the other three murders.
Read all about this wonderful, wonderful man right HERE (http://markgribben.com/?page_id=113)
I really hope Ah-nold spares him.
Oh...wait.... no, I don't.
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as long as a rabid dog of a human lives he has the potential to cause more suffering and death on his fellow man.
This can not be dennied.
lazs
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Originally posted by bj229r
Name ONE execution of an innocent man (in the last 100 years)
Keep your eyes on this story. (http://www.chicagotribune.com/chi-0504200146apr20,1,4986999.story?coll=chi-bbspecials-hed)
or this one. (http://www.spectacle.org/395/texas.html)
that took about 30 seconds.
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those guys don't seem so innocent to me.
lazs
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comeone MT dig up a story of a totally innocent, for example a eaglescout-choirboy arrested while helping an old woman across the street and executed for a crime he didnt commit
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FOR THE LATEST exhibit of the fallibility of the judicial system, we turn to Joyce Gilchrist, a chemist with the Oklahoma City Police Department who has worked on more than 3,000 cases. Oklahoma has executed 11 persons based at least in part on her work. Twelve more remain on death row.
One man was executed in 2000 who was probably convicted on manufactured evidence. Look up Joyce Gilchrist for more..
http://www.truthinjustice.org/gilchrist2.htm
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Newspaper Finds Innocent Man Was Put To Death In Texas
Posted on Wednesday, November 23 @ 11:00:00 EST by k-0s
According to the Houston Chronicle, the 1993 execution of Ruben Cantu likely killed an innocent man. The investigation carried out by the newspaper found that one of the prosecutors, the jury forewoman, an alibi witness and even a victim all believe that Cantu was innocent. Much of the case, which involved a robbery and murder, was based on the testimony of a single eye-witness named Juan Moreno. Moreno, who was 19 years old and an illegal alien at the time of the crime, now claims he failed to identify Cantu after two seperate line-ups. Moreno claims he only identified, and later testified against, Cantu when police assured him that they were positive that he was guilty.
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Whew I a sure am glad the newspaper found him innocent. The judge, district attorney and jury shouldnt have wasted their time or effort.
That and the fact that the story does not prove anything positive or negative in regards to his actual guilt or innocence. And if the folks who evidence a burst of "guilt" at being a part of his conviction have a change of heart, it couldnt be the reporters and attorneys involved helping them along either, could it?
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How many innocent people does society kill by not locking up multiple repeat offending drunk drivers?
From the MADD site:
About one-third of all drivers arrested or convicted of driving under the influence are repeat offenders. These drivers are 40% more likely to be involved in a fatal crash than those without prior DUIs.
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Originally posted by Toad
How many innocent people does society kill by not locking up multiple repeat offending drunk drivers?
From the MADD site:
Agree 100%. Repeat drunk drivers need to be locked up.
How exactly is this on the topic?
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so where is the eagle scout that has been executed and it has been proven that he is innocent?
lazs