Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Eagler on April 19, 2001, 02:41:00 PM
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http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010419/ts/crime_bombing_dc_5.html (http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010419/ts/crime_bombing_dc_5.html)
too bad they couldn't execute the maniac responsible TODAY!
Eagler
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My wife works at the federal building here in Portland. Its a couple stories taller, but for the most part it looks just like the building in OK (well.. used to look).
I think about that bombing every day as I drop my wife off and pick her up afterwards.
This is one instance where very few people will argue to spare this individual's life.
AKDejaVu
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Don't forget that it's also the 7th anniversary that the Gov murdered almost 100 US citizens in Waco.....
Udie
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I lived in Waco during that mess and don't really remember federal agents murdering 100 people. I remember a group of people that had been stockpiling weapons for years barracading themselves inside a building for a month threatening to shoot anybody that came near. Then at the end of the month the agents started putting the pressure on and the occupants set the building on fire and decided not to come out. Doesn't sound like murder to me.
Cougar
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Cougar,
The occupants did not set the building on fire, they let the feds do it for them. Of course, saturating portions of the interior facilitated things when the tear gas came in.
Don't know if it was ever confirmed that several of the occupants were dead from self-inflicted gunshot wounds.
Either way.. there is blame to be assigned. Its just that it doesn't fall solely on one side's shoulders.
AKDejaVu
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I'm not trying to say that no mistakes were made on the Federal side, I just have a hard time blaming them for what happened. The situation had gone on too long and something had to be done, unfortunately it resulted in a heavy loss of life. From the tapes I've seen, fires started in two separate areas of the compound from the inside. What have you seen that shows the agents starting the blaze? As far as the gunshots to the back of the head, I do remember hearing on the local news that they had indeed found people with gunshot wounds to the head. I'm not trying to flame anybody, just discussing.
Cougar
edit: I found a link listing the cause of death for the people involved. Several are listed as either massive trauma to the head or gunshot wounds. http://www.mnsinc.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/death/map/d_list00.html (http://www.mnsinc.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/death/map/d_list00.html)
[This message has been edited by Cougar68 (edited 04-19-2001).]
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yeah it's my birthday and oklahoma city is my place of birth! no kidding - i will always remember the day - i never felt so low - "collateral damage" he says of the children...fry that sucka!!
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The people in Waco could have ended it peacefully on the first day, and saved the live of everyone involed, not to mention saving all the tax payers alot of money.
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Nathan "NATEDOG" Mathieu
Art Director
HiTech Creations
-=HELLFIRE SQUAD=-
".... And on the eighth day, God created beer. "
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mrfish, I know how you feel! My b-day is on the 18th, it's a sad reminder of the events. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Cougar
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Much as I am a proponent of capital pnishment, it just seems that he's getting out too easy. Perhaps being locked in a small metal box with water slowly pouruing in the top and no drain would do it better. This coward should be able to see it coming and have to wait for it to be over.
Mav
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Originally posted by Maverick:
Much as I am a proponent of capital pnishment, it just seems that he's getting out too easy. Perhaps being locked in a small metal box with water slowly pouruing in the top and no drain would do it better. This coward should be able to see it coming and have to wait for it to be over.
Mav
It's not the end for Timmy, just the beginning of his suffering. He'll pay for his actions for lives to come.
Ying & Yang, Karma, ...............
his bellybutton is grass for a while
Eagler
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I am split on that Waco thing, the Feds could have arrested Kirish several times outside the compound...they didn't..they chose to have a 'show down'.
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What would they arrest him for....... the guns were in the compound, without the guns no arrest could be made.......not to mention they were just going there to ask about the guns when all of this happened. Kirish chose to have the show down.
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Nathan "NATEDOG" Mathieu
Art Director
HiTech Creations
-=HELLFIRE SQUAD=-
".... And on the eighth day, God created beer. "
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Originally posted by NATEDOG:
What would they arrest him for....... the guns were in the compound, without the guns no arrest could be made.......not to mention they were just going there to ask about the guns when all of this happened. Kirish chose to have the show down.
That's what search warrants are for.
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I agree Rip, Koresh could've been arrested when he was outside the compound quite easily. Maybe it would've worked better that way, who knows. But, the guns were INSIDE the compound along with a hundred other people that were quite capable of firing them. Option A: Take away the leader, the followers are diffused and come out on their own free will. Option B: Take away the leader and the followers pledge allegiance to Koresh and die with their guns blazing. Remember that Koresh had an apocolyptic interpretation of the bible, so his followers exptected to die defending Koresh from the get go.
Cougar
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
That's what search warrants are for.
They had them. they were turned away at gun point. As soon as they did that, the feds lives were in danger, and they had the right to shoot them. you read about it every day, someone pulls a gun on a cop, and gets killed. The only difference is that there were children involed in this one. But good ole David could have let the children go insted of using them as a shield. he choose to put them in the line of fire, not to mention shot some in the back of the head. the children were the victims in this. but it was by Davids hand, not the feds.
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Originally posted by Eagler:
[BIt's not the end for Timmy, just the beginning of his suffering. He'll pay for his actions for lives to come.
Ying & Yang, Karma, ...............
[/B]
wow - pretty enlightened there eagler - you got a copy of the dhammapadda sitting next to field and stream in yer toilet rack?
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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The congressional hearings showed that the warrants were bogus. There was NO drug manufacturing equipment they couldnt prove any "child" molestation. Then they figured that the only way to save the children was to kill them.
Everything I have read or seen on this leads me to the conclusion that the ATF was trying to make a big show out of this because it was budget time.
BTW, my roomate at the time owned a car lot in Killeen Tx. The day after the burning. We saw the US Army tanks coming back to Ft. Hood from Waco, yes the same ones that were on TV. Why was the Army used against our own citizens? Isn't that illegal???? The saddest part is the nobody was held accountable, except for the dead.
The ATF knew they were tipped off and should have stopped at that point, PERIOD, IMNSO (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) they caused it....
Udie
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I planted a......
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tree in remembrance. Evil lies everywhere, killing innocents like that was despicable.
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Sturm6 StaffelKapitän
JV44 Platzschutzstaffel
Airfield Defense Squadron
"Did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl harbor?" Famous quote from Animal House, John Belushi.
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Udie they were holed up in a compound armed to the teeth in a self-proclaimed showdown with US law enforcement, or is that propoganda too?
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The image that sticks with me is when the agent is on the roof and a Davidian is firing from the room below him. You can see the shots coming through the roof as the agent rolls trying to avoid them. These weren't peaceful people that were being picked on by the government. Bottom line, for me anyways, there were dangerous people with weapons firing on federal agents, while holding children captive. I think it was the right decision to try and use force to bring the standoff to an end. It's just a shame that Koresh and his followers decided the best end was to ignite the entire building and kill everyone inside, children included. My heart goes out for the children that died that day. But I loathe Koresh for forcing them to die. As far as no evidence of child abuse, what do you call having sex with 12 and 13 year old girls? That's child abuse in my book! First person accounts show it to be true. Show me some concrete evidence that points to the ATF being at fault, and not something that some conspiracy theorist has put together. I believe that if you look at the cold, hard, facts (without the "government is out to get them" spin) that it's obvious what really happened that day. A group of rogues held off federak agents for as long as they could and decided to commit suicide and murder rather than give up.
Cougar
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The fish rots from the head down, both in Koresh's case, and Janet Reno...
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If the Branch Davidians weren't retarded they wouldn't have built their fort out of wood.
If the ATF wasn't retarded they wouldn't have tried to assualt Koresh when they knew surprise was lost.
If the Branch Davidians didn't want to die they shouldn't have had a gun battle with the ATF.
I think mass stupidity is to blame here, not some evil conspiracy. Bad decisions have a way of becomming conspiracies in the eyes of the disgruntled.
J_A_B
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Agreed JAB, my point is, I *expected* better from the ATF, after all, they're employed by my tax dollars... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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WHATEVER! The deaths of the wackos in Waco was what is was. There the children were the innocents, but blame their yellow hammered parents for that, not the gov!
Still didn't justify the puke's blowing up a building filled with women and children.
Chickenshit Timothy McVie - May his soul be in torment 100x longer than the suffering his actions caused the survivors.
Eagler
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I expected the ATF to act alot sooner rather than running up the bill paid by my tax dollars.
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Nathan "NATEDOG" Mathieu
Art Director
HiTech Creations
-=HELLFIRE SQUAD=-
".... And on the eighth day, God created beer. "
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On the whole Waco episode: I thought that initially the ATF entered the building with limited personnel, armament etc. and then two(?) ATF officers were shot by the inhabitants... Well that does justify a forceful response does it? If everybody whose house was searched would react the same pretty soon there wouldn't be any houses or officers left, right. So I'm convinced that David Koresh killed all those people, the same who chose him as their leader and depended on him. Makes him kinda fall into the same category as McVeigh, I'm not a religious person by any means but I certainly hope that his punishment isn't over after the injection.
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Originally posted by Udie:
Don't forget that it's also the 7th anniversary that the Gov murdered almost 100 US citizens in Waco.....
Udie
Hmmm... at least 30 died at the hands of their own people. A simple "surrender" would have avoided all of this. They chose to martyr themselves.