Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Kazaa on January 18, 2006, 07:02:26 AM

Title: I now have evidence !
Post by: Kazaa on January 18, 2006, 07:02:26 AM: Guys I know that I have already asked for A spit16 with DD markings & there has been 50/50 views on weather or not it would be possible, well I now have evidence of A Mk16 with DD markings. :O

Also I have read & been told that it was ok too use spit9 skins for spit16s as well, why I have no idea & cannot remember, but I guess A person who knows something is going to come in & tell us anyway. So please can you reconsider the DD markings Kev Sir.

P.S Kev I love your Ramod Baxter skin, is there any chance you could just add A couple of stripes onto it ? :aok

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=627132&WxsIERv=Fhcreznevar%20Fcvgsver%20KIV&Wm=0&WdsYXMg=Uvfgbevp%20Sylvat%20Yvzvgrq&QtODMg=Qhksbeq%20%28RTFH%29&ERDLTkt=HX%20-%20Ratynaq&ktODMp=Whyl%209%2C%202004&BP=0&WNEb25u=Puevfgvna%20O%E9puve&xsIERvdWdsY=T-BKIV&MgTUQtODMgKE=&YXMgTUQtODMgKERD=1961&NEb25uZWxs=2004-07-25%2000%3A00%3A00&ODJ9dvCE=GQ248&O89Dcjdg=PONS.VK.4262&static=yes&width=1024&height=780&sok=JURER%20%20%28nvepensg_trarevp%20%3D%20%27Fhcreznevar%20Fcvgsver%27%29%20%20BEQRE%20OL%20ivrjf%20QRFP&photo_nr=66&prev_id=653964&next_id=268716
Title: I now have evidence !
Post by: Fencer51 on January 18, 2006, 09:06:34 AM: Sorry to rain on your parade but that is obviously not a WWII era photo. Modern aircraft can obviously be painted however the owner wants. Care must be taken even for those aircraft which are protrayed as "authentically restored" as errors are still made.

You will need to find a period photo in order to have a good reference.

Is that even a Spit XVI ?
Title: I now have evidence !
Post by: Kazaa on January 18, 2006, 09:24:19 AM: Yeap, it says it at the bottom on the page, left corner, thanks for the advice mate.
Title: I now have evidence !
Post by: Guppy35 on January 18, 2006, 09:33:14 AM: Good luck finding a Spit XVI wartime photo in D-Day markings.

The bird in the photo was painted up by Historic Flying Limited for the D-Day anniversary. Note they made the classic mistake of having half fuselage stripes and full wing stripes.

Also note the squadron codes are in fact HF-L Historic Flying Limited.

Your only hope is to find a photo of a Spitfire LFIXe with clipped wings and a taill tail and hope they'll accept that on a LFXVIe.

Based on Kev's work on an MTO SAAF LFIXe that should be possible however.
Title: I now have evidence !
Post by: Kazaa on January 18, 2006, 03:46:13 PM: I FOUND ONE, right let me post the picture ,its A spit9, but it has the rudder & clipped wings like you said. :aok

P.S thanks for your help Guppy35. :D
Title: I now have evidence !
Post by: Kazaa on January 18, 2006, 04:01:08 PM: (http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=927155&WxsIERv=Fhcreznevar%20361%20Fcvgsver%20YS9P&Wm=0&WdsYXMg=HX%20-%20Nve%20Sbepr&QtODMg=Ebhtunz&ERDLTkt=HX%20-%20Ratynaq&ktODMp=Nhthfg%2021%2C%202005&BP=0&WNEb25u=Wbua%20Nyyna&xsIERvdWdsY=ZX356&MgTUQtODMgKE=Cresbezvat%20ng%20gur%20Ebhtunz%20Nve%20Qvfcynl&YXMgTUQtODMgKERD=1221&NEb25uZWxs=2005-09-23%2008%3A39%3A04&ODJ9dvCE=2V-I&O89Dcjdg=PONS.VK.1561&static=yes&width=1024&height=695&sok=JURER%20%20%28nvepensg_trarevp%20%3D%20%27Fhcreznevar%20Fcvgsver%27%29%20%20beqre%20ol%20cubgb_vq%20QRFP&photo_nr=107&prev_id=927621&next_id=926737)

< Im trying to do A picture for the first time here.
Title: I now have evidence !
Post by: Krusty on January 18, 2006, 04:19:34 PM: That url's too long for the UBB code.

However, copying and pasting it into a browser window I can see it.

It's a recent air show photo, not a historic ww2 photo (the quality of the photo illustrates its age).
Title: I now have evidence !
Post by: Kazaa on January 18, 2006, 04:21:10 PM: Right......... I give up, lol for now ;)
Title: I now have evidence !
Post by: Guppy35 on January 18, 2006, 05:17:50 PM: Bet it's a picture of the restored Spitfire LFIXe ML417 that flew on D-Day with 443 "Hornet' Squadron RCAF.

I don't know that it had clipped wings at the time. It does now however.

(http://www.spitfiresociety.demon.co.uk/spitpix/ml417_l.jpg)
Title: I now have evidence !
Post by: Kazaa on January 18, 2006, 05:23:33 PM: No it actually is A different Spitfire, but anyone would do :p, you know what I mean Guppy35 :aok
Title: I now have evidence !
Post by: Guppy35 on January 18, 2006, 05:38:31 PM: Ahh, the B of B flight Spit LFIXe MK356 that also was with 443 Squadron on D-Day. I wish they'd get those two in the air together just once :) She had a rounded tail to start and a pointed one added during the restoration to flight.
(http://images.airliners.net/photos/middle/5/5/1/927155.jpg)
(http://www.airsceneuk.org.uk/airshow05/rougham/rc/mk356.jpg)
Title: I now have evidence !
Post by: Kev367th on January 18, 2006, 06:55:18 PM: Just to clarify -

LF IXe Skins will be accepted on the XVI
Clipped or not doesn't matter, it's the 'e' wing and broad chord rudder that do.
After all the LF IXe and XVI were the same aircraft.

Kinda leaves the 1943 LF IX'c' hanging out there though, will call HTC tomorrow and see if we get definative guidelines.

My personal call -
LF IXc if it has the broadchord rudder it should go on the VIII, else on the F IX.
Title: I now have evidence !
Post by: Kazaa on January 19, 2006, 06:28:51 AM: :O So can we get it :O
Title: I now have evidence !
Post by: Fencer51 on January 19, 2006, 06:56:17 AM: Guppy,

Do you have the book 2nd Tactical Air Force: from breakout to Bodenplatte"? There are two photos in it of clipped wing Mk IXs with invasion stripes. I don't have it with me and I got distracted last night and didnt post the pages.

Cheers,
Title: I now have evidence !
Post by: Guppy35 on January 19, 2006, 10:47:06 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Fencer51
Guppy,

Do you have the book 2nd Tactical Air Force: from breakout to Bodenplatte"? There are two photos in it of clipped wing Mk IXs with invasion stripes. I don't have it with me and I got distracted last night and didnt post the pages.

Cheers,

It should be showing up on the doorstep any day. Ordered it about a week ago :)
Title: I now have evidence !
Post by: Fencer51 on January 20, 2006, 06:34:32 AM: Great book. I just got it for Christmas. I need to get the other two volumes as well. :aok
Title: Conclusion
Post by: Kazaa on January 23, 2006, 12:54:40 PM: So, what wing type did they use for MK356/ML417.

I'm guessing it was C/E ? :confused:
Title: I now have evidence !
Post by: Kazaa on January 23, 2006, 12:59:39 PM: Just looked up both aircraft on Google, why do both not have any strips on the top of the wing, whats the point of having them if you cannot see them lol :eek:

Any of you guys know of any other DD LFXIe Spits I can look at ?

Would be really greatful :aok
Title: I now have evidence !
Post by: Krusty on January 23, 2006, 01:01:52 PM: D-Day stripes were for the ground troops, so they didn't shoot their own planes down. After the initial event, the upper stripes were covered so that they didn't instantly give away the planes when seen by other planes. However the lower surfaces still told ground crews to hold fire.
Title: I now have evidence !
Post by: Kazaa on January 23, 2006, 01:04:48 PM: Yeah sounds like A good idea, surely there was one lazy git that did not paint over his strips, Can you see that i'm still trying to hang on to this lol

P.S thanks for sharing the knowledge Krusty.
Title: I now have evidence !
Post by: Krusty on January 23, 2006, 01:26:18 PM: Well if there was some lazy git he got shot down by enemy planes that instantly spotted his bright white stripes and didn't live to tell the tale :P

In war, "Lazy" usually = "dead"
Title: I now have evidence !
Post by: Kazaa on January 23, 2006, 02:04:52 PM: So true Krusty, very nice post, that made me smile :D

P.S I think I found A lazy git, but It must be A replica Spitfire, it has full wing strips, but only half tail.
Title: I now have evidence !
Post by: Kazaa on January 23, 2006, 02:07:08 PM: Actually, my mistake, it looks like A spitXI, oh well
Title: I now have evidence !
Post by: Fencer51 on January 23, 2006, 03:08:24 PM: Were not the stripes on the MkIX clipped wing birds wrap around on D-Day?
Title: I now have evidence !
Post by: Kev367th on January 23, 2006, 03:29:08 PM: On D-Day yes they were wrap around.

spoke to the powers that be -

LF IXe - can go a XVI.
LF IXc - if high tail on the VIII, std tail on the IX.

Overall shape/armament is what matters, clipped/non clipped doesn't.
Title: I now have evidence !
Post by: Guppy35 on January 23, 2006, 03:56:56 PM: Full D-Day stripes were used until early to mid July. Then it was half stripes on fuselage and under wings. In September/October the wing stripes were supposed to come off the bottom of the wings. This DID NOT always happen as I've seen numerous photos of 9th AF 38s with underwing D-Day stripes still on during the winter of 44/45.

Fuselage stripes were supposed to come off in January 45 or so.

Using a current warbird for any historical reference is always a roll of the dice. I wouldn't use them as a reference unless I had matching historical photos to go with it.

I'd also want to see both those 443 Squadron Spits in historical photos to confirm they had E wings when they were flying on D-Day cause I'm not positive the E wing birds were in action yet.

ML407 was rebuilt by Supermarine as a 2 seat trainer post war and then restored back to single seat so it's more then likely that it had the wings replaced. The two seat trainers had no cannon, just the two outboard MGs.

I've seen photos of the unrestored MK356 with Universal wings and a small tail as well, so it's entirely possible it got new E wings and the broad chord rudder during it's restoration to flight.

I guess my point being if I was going to skin that one, I'd be much more apt to do it on the AH IX model with the small tail and universal wing as that's what the majority of the D-Day Spits were set up as, as least from the photos taken of Spits at the time.