Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: StarOfAfrica2 on January 18, 2006, 11:39:26 AM
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USRAC, owner and operator of the Winchester Repeating Arms plant in New Haven, CT announced that production will cease as of March 31st, 2006. The Winchester Model 94, the Model 1300 and the Model 70 will no longer be produced anywhere.
The company will continue to produce some over and under shotguns and "special, limited edition" rifles in Europe and Asia. At this time it appears these will be USRAC guns, not Winchesters.
For those of you unfamiliar with it, the Model 94 is the modern version of the Winchester model 1894 lever action rifle. Most commonly found in .30-30 caliber, it is THE most popular deer hunting rifle in history. Made famous by John Wayne in his cowboy movies, this American icon will finally follow the cowboy cliche and ride off into the sunset.
During WWII, at its height, Winchester employed 19,000 people. Today's plant employs less than 200, some of whom are 3rd generation Winchester employees. All of them will be laid off as of March 31st.
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Sad day...
When did USRAC buy them out?
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I used to have a Mod 94 winchester(30/30) and a Trapper model (32 cal)
I seem to remember the Trapper model 32 being sold as John Wayne's favorite rifle.
I always thought they werent very useful as hunting rifles, maybe out to 150 yards. Most deer i saw in Idaho were 200 - 300 yds. Of course as soon as I switched to a 300 win mag I started seeing deer at 60 to 100 yd:mad:
now watch the prices on the Winchesters climb
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Better go buy up all you can find:)
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Major suppliers are already running low on stocks. Once the news hit yesterday, dealers started ordering Winchesters like crazy. All the rifle caliber 94's are gone, and most of the pistol calibers are gone as well. Model 1300 pump shotguns are going fast also.
Like vultures, they cant even wait for the horse to die before they jump in and start ripping. Watch for price gouging.
USRA pays to use the name Winchester, and produce their line. Olin manufacturing owns the name and any rights to the products. Someone COULD step in, and either buy the New Haven factory or relocate and pay Olin to use the name, restarting the company. USRA says the New Haven plant is not cost effective to run (even though its one of the most modern firearms plants in the US). Labor costs are the major difference. Most modern companies produce their guns overseas, and Winchester couldnt compete with a totally American made product.
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Sad news indeed. I'm not much of a Winchester Cowboy Carbine fan.. however the 1894 as well as their big bolt rifles are fine, honest weapons as good and in many cases better than any other in their price class.
But that has nothing to do with my remorse at the loss of another traditional American industry to foriegn cheap labor.. this crap keeps happening because for some damn reason we don't deal with forigen trade tarrifs and import duties with an even-handed 'Whatever YOUR trade rules, tarrifs and taxes are on US made goods exported to your country, so be OURS upon YOURS."
Damn this sucks!
Note: I wonder if the long-range outlook for a US Firearms MFG is considered 'iffy' based on legislation patterns and trends... with the trend being towards more and more legislation and control on aquiring hunting arms?
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This irks me to no end. I'm in my mid 50s' and have seen the slow but steady erosion of manufacturing in the US. Winchester is a fine company and seeing it close saddens me greatly.
We've no Steel industry in the US. Most US American auto manufacturers probably within the next 10 to 20 years will not be making Cars in the US, electronic components designed and manufactured in the US have long since been manufactured overseas also. That's just a few examples.
I wonder how the US which appears will become a service oriented economy will survive with lower paying jobs and the inability to afford manufactured big ticket items made overseas? I mean you have to have something to service and the ability to purchase something that needs service. Looks like the economic power that we now hold is slowly sinking into the sunset. If it weren't for China and Japan supporting the US economy at this point the good 'ole US of A would be in a quagmire.
Our Political leadership has let this happen and the divide between the outrageously rich and the so called middle class widens everyday. Seems we're headed to a two class level of society.
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"Seems we're headed to a two class level of society."
We all know how THAT eventually turns out.
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I wonder if all those lawsuits by the anti's had anything to do with it? Their agenda was to bring so many suits against the firearms manufacturers that they would collapse finantually. They didn't need to win a single suit,(anti's) just the legal expences alone would overwhelm the gun manufacturers.
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I'd be more inclined to think that it is a shifting market that did Winchester in, not anything else. Recently, more and more plastic guns are being designed and sold. Their popularity and amount will act as the opposite to the popularity and amount of the old classics.
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Quite frankly, their biggest problems have been
1. Lack of innovation. They have been relying on the same models of the same guns to carry them through forever. The model 70 bolt action is a fine hunting rifle, but it competes with the Remington 700 and the much cheaper versions produced by Savage, as well as Weatherby, etc. There's nothing to give one a competitive edge over another, and Winchester is the only one of the group that wasnt manufacturing any rifles overseas. (By the way, the USRA holding company is in Europe, but all Winchesters were manufactured in CT). The model 94 lever action is (as noted) a fine mid-range deer rifle and has seen some resurgence with the popularity of CAS (cowboy action shooting), but it is not as popular as other brands and other models that are either manufactured overseas or have more variants to draw more interest. The model 1300 shotgun suffers from the same problem. Its too damn expensive when compared to its competitors, and not nearly enough options.
2. Labor. Most of Winchester's employees in the CT factory have 30 years+ of time in with the company. Many of them are 2nd or even 3rd generation Winchester employees. While the union employees did take some cuts a few years ago in an agreement to try to keep the factory open and running, the costs associated with paying 30 year veterans at even the cut union scale wages was too much. Its not like a percentage of their workforce could be retired early. No matter what choice they made, their options were severly limited from a financial standpoint, considering the amount made per year on Winchester products.
3. Shrinking market share. Relates to #1. With no new products to expand their lineup and attract new customers, and a fairly reliable product that doesnt need replacement often, and higher prices than their competitors on the products they DO offer, Winchester saw their share of the market grow smaller and smaller every year. Meanwhile, Italian and Chinese companys have licensed the right to manufacture copies of classic Winchester models to market to CAS shooters and collectors, and are selling them in large numbers. The quality is not as good, but they are available and affordable.
4. Lack of intelligent management. I really think there's still room for them, if they could get a management team that understands the American gun market and can change their lineup to match consumer demand. People will pay more for a REAL Winchester, if you market things right. Especially if you keep quality high. There's always a market for quality. USRA has no stake in making sure Winchester succeeds. It was just a way for them to make money. I also dont think its entirely a union problem. Ruger is an all American company, paying union scale wages to its workers, and its doing quite well. Winchester could too. We have Brownings made in Japan, S&W made with parts from China, Remingtons made with Chinese and Russian parts ............ To me, buying foriegn made Winchesters (except for the odd collector pieces) would be like buying a Japanese made '57 Chevy.
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noone ever mentions the bow and arrow anymore
(http://www.costumesinc.com/Costumes/images/medium/7662.jpg)
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Originally posted by MajWoody
Better go buy up all you can find:)
Good idea... if only my wallet was as big as my wish list.
Sad news about winchester. They dropped the 94/22 from production last year? It was a big seller for them, so maybe the writing was on the wall.
I've allways been a big fan of their guns. At the moment I have a model 70 featherweight in 7mm/08, a 1300xtr shotty and a 94 trapper in .44 mag. I was thinking about selling the model 70 and getting a saiga .308 semi but now I'm going to hang on to it, the saiga can wait.
Excel
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Originally posted by joowenn
noone ever mentions the bow and arrow anymore
(http://www.costumesinc.com/Costumes/images/medium/7662.jpg)
Back in the day it used to be useful for sticking arrows through armoured frenchtype people and cavalrymen.
now they turned it into a brokeback type thing with levers and gears, and 5 strings, and a stick sticking out the front(what the devl is that stupid stick for? bayonet?) and all these doodads, and you have to let it drop horizontal after each shot.
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:( What American made rifle am I going to buy when I turn 18? Sad news indeed.
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Nirvana, Just buy a Kimber Rifle. Much better than Winchester anyway.
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marlin 336
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Does Ruger still make the 10/22 and .223? and Marlin used to have 30-30 also.
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SOF... most of the 57 chevies you see running around have jap and taiwan parts on em. You can buy a 69 camaro bocy made in taiwan.
lazs
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I think you'll find the Kimbers just slightly more expensive than a Winchester. Good gun though.
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"Ah...how do you get you clothes so bwight Mr. Smith?"
"Ancient American secret Mr. Chang."
Look who is doing the laundry.
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I am a Kimber pistol fan.
lazs
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Originally posted by Hajo
Our Political leadership has let this happen and the divide between the outrageously rich and the so called middle class widens everyday. Seems we're headed to a two class level of society.
Hajo,
Our political leadership HAS let it happen, while we all have stood by and watched. Voting Democrat, or Republican is not going to change it either. It's gonna require a total gutting of our house, senate, and white house to get rid of all the these special interest group law makers.
How long you think it will take for that to happen? :rolleyes:
Sadly I think it will not in my life time, as for the most part, myself included, people vote for one major party to ensure the other's does not get in... Sad huh? :furious
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Originally posted by Hangtime
But that has nothing to do with my remorse at the loss of another traditional American industry to foriegn cheap labor.. this crap keeps happening because for some damn reason we don't deal with forigen trade tarrifs and import duties with an even-handed 'Whatever YOUR trade rules, tarrifs and taxes are on US made goods exported to your country, so be OURS upon YOURS."
Hang, look at US tariff policy regarding Russian metallurgical production. Also see what happens when Russia stops importing American chicken meat, all your authorities start screaming about "non-market economics" and "return to communism", while all we need is that US chicken farms following at least some hygienical, epidemiological or drug-using standards.
Can anyone remind me of what happened to Australian pork production? IIRC US simply declared that Australia should lower their custom tariffs so US can export pork to Australia, and it killed Australian pork farms.
As usual - instead of fair competition you act like international gangsters, and still teach everyone "democracy" and "capitalism". You get exactly what you deserve. Your "post-industrial economics" is a bubble that will blow up sooner or later, and it will be a huge problem for the whole world, not only for the people responsible for it :(
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
I'd be more inclined to think that it is a shifting market that did Winchester in, not anything else. Recently, more and more plastic guns are being designed and sold. Their popularity and amount will act as the opposite to the popularity and amount of the old classics.
It's not just plastic guns. Winchester competes against a variety of foreign manufacturers and two or three VERY EFFICIENT US manufacturers--Savage, Marlin, Remington and Ruger, to name a few. The quality of their product has suffered as their equipment has aged, and they have refused to modernize their facility. When outfits like Kimber (makes rifles using modern equipment) and others can produce a higher quality piece at a lower cost, the writing is on the wall.
Winchester priced their "savior" shotgun (the x-2) at the same price point as a berretta, but it wasn't as good as a berretta or even a remington.
There seems to be two ways to make money in the gun business--use overseas cheap labor, hand fitting, and old machinery to make a good quality product, or use modern machining centers to eliminate hand fitting to make a good product. Using old equipment and expensive domestic labor to make a good product won't survive.
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Where there is a demand for a thing to be made, some maker will satisfy that demand.
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boroda... you think we are bad? wait till you rubes start dealing with the japs.
lazs
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Originally posted by Pooh21
Back in the day it used to be useful for sticking arrows through armoured frenchtype people and cavalrymen.
now they turned it into a brokeback type thing with levers and gears, and 5 strings, and a stick sticking out the front(what the devl is that stupid stick for? bayonet?) and all these doodads, and you have to let it drop horizontal after each shot.
Back in the day we'd wipe our tulips with the horses tail, take scalps and do week long binge drunk rapefests at the village next valley over.
*sigh*
why does everybody always overcomplicate things?
(http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~rchorlto/crying%20indian.jpg)
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Originally posted by Hangtime
Back in the day we'd wipe our tulips with the horses tail, take scalps and do week long binge drunk rapefests at the village next valley over.
*sigh*
why does everybody always overcomplicate things?
I lived in a reservation border town for a few years. Not all that much has changed.
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Just a couple of notes.
Olin has licensed the name Winchester to USRA through 2007. After that, I assume it will be available again.
Right now, the only 100% American firearms manufacturer I know of is Sturm, Ruger & Co. If ANYONE ought to buy the Winchester name and product line, its Ruger. The products would fill a hole in their catalog, and vise versa. They would complement each other well. Probably wont happen, but I can hope.
Browning is handling all service repairs for Winchester made guns as of now, via USRA customer service.
This is the official story from the AP.
End of an era as Winchester rifle plant prepares to close
By MATT APUZZO
Associated Press Writer
January 17, 2006, 3:10 PM EST
NEW HAVEN, Conn. -- U.S. Repeating Arms said Tuesday it will close its Winchester firearm factory, threatening the future of a rifle that pioneers toted into the Wild West and John Wayne hoisted onto the big screen.
"It's part of who we are as a nation just like it's part of who we are as a city. It's the gun that won the West," Mayor John DeStefano said. "What are we going to have, Winchester rifles manufactured in China? Is this what we're coming to?"
The announcement touched off a lobbying effort by city officials and union leaders who hoped to find someone to buy the plant before it closes March 31. If no buyer comes forward, it could spell the end for nearly all commercially produced Winchesters, said Everett Corey, a representative of the International Association of Machinists District 26.
"Winchester would be pretty much defunct," he said. "They're not going to produce them, other than a couple custom-type models."
The company has been plagued by slumping firearm sales. More than 19,000 worked there during World War II, but the plant employs fewer than 200 now.
"Several generations have worked at this place, a lot of fathers and brothers, sons, uncles and daughters," said Paul DeMennato, facility director at U.S. Repeating Arms. "A lot of marriages were people who met at Winchester."
U.S. Repeating Arms, which is owned by the Herstal Group, a Belgium company, has said for years that it was on the brink of closing the plant.
DeMennato said the company is negotiating the sale of its plant. The Winchester name is owned by Missouri-based Olin Corp., which had sold U.S. Repeating Arms the right to use the name until next year.
Olin had no immediate word on its plans for the Winchester name. DeMennato said he hopes the name will be sold along with the plant.