Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: bagrat on January 24, 2006, 12:20:21 AM
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remember when if strategically or somewhat cautiosly flown you could enter and leave a battle with handfull of kills....(the G-10)?
we now have K4 and G-14.........
K4 can escape a fight without much difficulty, but with what purpose. 1 30mm cannon is some what like a yak except without turning ability to help line up a shot, leading to generally leaving empty handed.
G-14 cant turn fight with anything except maybe a bomber. Guns are good but still difficult to line up a shot. also if given a chance most other quicker fighters can catch it with ease.
so i guess with 109's choice comes down to, survive with no kills or possibly get a kill or two but probably not escape the fight.
and the FLAPS, are they only meant to make a smoother landing?
Im in G-14 an decided to attempt to turn fight with a p-38 (dumb mistake)
so were in the middle of turnin and he is slowly out turnin me, But wait! im goin about 180mph, I can now deploy flaps to help me in my turn,WRONG!
they still dont deploy, they did not deploy until I was goin under 160mph.
My point I guess is with 109 and these standards it seems to encourage "cherry picking" being the only reasonable fighting tactic.
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I flew the 109K last night with a trusted wingman and using pure BnZ tactics this plane cannot be caught.
You do need a large amount of planes furballing to get a good chance at a pick.
2 x 3 kill runs with the ability to have done more.
In regards to the 65 cannon ammo you obviously have the secondary trigger on a diff button, it only needs one sprite to break a plane 2 shots will make sure.
Shooting the big cannon i do it from 200 or less saw trikky smoke my friend from 600 1 shot.
Practice.
the 109 k is a gift for all LW pilots un catchable fly like a robot up down and pick.
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Bagrat, not completely true ... with the K-4 you can furball (sort of, I'm not very good at it) but the 30mm is not of much help. Since you cant saddle on your foe you usually have to use high deflection shooting at very close range when the foe breaks and cross thru your gunsight. But then again, sometimes the foe seems to fly between two 30mm shells ... :huh
When and if you learn to use the Mk108 the 65 rounds are usually enuff to down 2-3 fighters and a whole box of bombers.
As far as the G-14 is concerned, if you wanna a high performance MW-50, 1700hp, mid 1944 fighter, forget it until his FM is fixed. Acceleration and max speed at altitudes are way off. With the gondolas it maneuver like a slow fat pig. If you wanna to be effective with the G-14 you have to choose *very* carefully the position, the foe, the fight and the timing of it ....
With our G-6 ---> K-4 109s dont try to turn with anything on the horyzontal more than 45-60deg. Go vertical and re-evaluate quickly the situation. Our mid-late 109s are out-turned and out-looped even by Bf110s :rofl
P.S.: Ouch Bruv! We replied in the same minute ;)
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Originally posted by bagrat
and the FLAPS, are they only meant to make a smoother landing?
Actually yes, as opposed to what most flight sims and the following bunch of guys that will flame me for this will make you believe. You will find some anaecdotal evidence for it being used on various planes but those stories are more of a pilot showing off how he pulled a suprise trick on his opponent - meaning it was highly irregular. The only semi exception that I know of, might be the P38.
Bozon
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Actully I've read on many accounts of the P-51D using flaps, it was more then commen. At 300mph or lower it was almost needed since it had some of the most horrable stall charactoristics of any ww2 fighter next to maybe the F4u. Now the F4u is one that uses it's flaps HEAVLY in AH but I've never even read about them being used in a fight. In fact I have a friend who uses the F4u ONLY because with stall limiter on it will out turn a Zero at low speed with stall limiter off... Try it sometime, if you turn stall limiter on, use full flaps and full power, you will easly out turn anything else in the game. The only way I can beat him is in a Ki-84 using the vertical.
Edward
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The P51 (RAF) story I know of specificly stated that the pilots talked about using the 1st position flaps for combat but were forbidded to use it by the CO. The pilot did use it to beat a 109G when caught in a prolonged, low, slow, circle fight. The fact that he boasts it, means it was exceptional.
So it was feasible and useful in some conditions. Modeling flaps to be used in extreme conditions is extremely hard with no good data. In terms of structural limitations the pilot notes list speeds of deployment, but those speeds are at 1G. Pulling 6G at 300 mph with flaps out is an entirely different condition. If flap use was that important and effective you'd see a lot more WWII planes designed to use them and find records of intructions of use in combat as standard practice. Engineers and pilots were not dumb and eager to survive.
Bozon
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I always fly the G-14 with gondolas. Three reasons for this:
1) the MGs are worthless in mid-range (d400) snapshots, typical in AH.
2) the MGs are useless in bringing down bombers.
3) wing-mounted and converged at d400 means you have a little more room for error to the left and right of the pipper than you would with just nose-mounted guns.
AH should bring the G-10 back as a slightly lighter version of the G-14.
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I know I'm gonna catch flak for this but IMHO all the LW are garbage in this game, the ballistics are horrible and the FM's are way off as well. I admire all the ppl that up them and fly em because there really really tough to fly and get kills in. I was just wondering why the so called best WWII fighter the FW190 is easily defeated by just about any allied AC in the game. Heck even Chuck Yeager was quoted as saying that in his opinion the 190 was superior to the pony in many ways, and that his pilots had to rely on superior skills and tactics when fighting them. I know its kinda hard to model planes exactly as they were in real life, but in WWII there were arguably 4 planes that were renowned for being the best fighters. 2 were allied and 2 were German, the P51 was arguably #1 with the FW190 coming in 2nd, then the Corsair and the ME109... In real life it may be hard to tell a difference as to which would be #1, but in our game I wouldn't put any of the LW planes in the top 10-15, it would definately be behind every US and british plane in the set, THIS IS JUST MY OPINION, but I'm sure allot of other players would agree with me
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ME109...
You do know it's the Bf-109 right?
There are secrets to flying the LW planes,if you stick around long enough someone might share them with you.Just because you cannot fly LW doesn't mean the rest of us cannot.The FW-190's outclimb British planes any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
But this is just my Opinion.
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yeah yeah I know its a BF109, but they were also called ME-109's as well (most US pilots called them all ME's, I'm not sure where the BF came from though, the ME just stood for Mescherschmitt or however you spell it... I have flown the 109's and 190's before, and have gotten training by some of the better sticks in them and I still think they suck, I've seen the "tricks" they have and I am not impressed at all... Some people have success in them, my guess is they are picking stupid dweebs that don't know how to pull a 30 degree turn... I'm not saying they sucked in real life, just in this game I don't believe they are modelled correctly, especially for 2 of the so called "best" fighters in WWII.. If they are modelled correctly then I see why germany lost the war lol
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The jets were labled ME i believe.
I'm not sure where the BF came from
"Bayerische Flugzeugwerke (BFW / Bavarian Aircraft Company)".
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However, even on internal Messerschmitt documents they terms "bf" and "me" 109 are interchanged. There's even a document that has 2 separate fields and one says "me109" the other says "bf109".
Either is correct. Neither is wrong.
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just because a plane can outclimb the other doen't make it better in any way, thats like saying the KI84 is better than the P47 just because it can outclimb it, what you have to do is look at the plane all around, take all its characteristics into play, top speed, acceleration, ballistics, turning abilitly, how it handles in a stall, weapon loadout, roll rate, use of flaps, etc... etc... while some of the german AC excell in 1 or 2 of those, they stink at the rest which IMO make it a bad AC, take an american plane like a 38 or pony and they may not excell at any, but they are good or descent at all of the qualities. Which I DON'T believe was the case in real life, the US pilots were saying that the German AC were awesome, but somehow in our game they can only climb ??? and if you slow em down they turn into bricks ???
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I would listen too Eric Hartmann before i listened to Chuck Yeager.1 has way more experience than the other.No one said you have to fly LW,you can leave that too me.
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I'm not bashing the LW planes in real life, if I asked Eric Hartmann he would tell me that the 109G6 is probably the best because I believe thats what he mostly flew, but for an american P51 pilot to say that the FW190 was a much better plane has to say something about the FM in our game... If Eric Hartman had our neudered 109's he wouldn't have had many kills lol I just got done reading a book about eric hartman, and most of his kills came from shooting C47's in the begininng of the war, he was involved later on in allot of dogfights and if I remember correctly was shot down 3 times, but in his book he describes outturning and out maneuvering planes such as Lags and even pony's towards the end of the war... Also if US pilots hadn't been put on rotation then some of them would have had 100+ kills recorded, and its also being claimed that the German aces inflated there kills, i.e. recorded kills that wernt kills. I do not know if thats true or not, but it is being widely discussed
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Originally posted by Iceman24
If they (109/190) are modelled correctly then I see why germany lost the war lol
Luftwaffe lost the air battle because of (in AH terms) gang-banging hordes of Pursuit Fighter Series and castle armored bombers.
Elite Staffels who flown 109s and 190s had no problem dealing with US planes except the NUMBERS and REINFORCEMENTS (back-ups).
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I do not know if thats true or not, but it is being widely discussed
You are venturing into unknown territory.Things were way different in 1939,and there was a high level of Chivalry amongst the pilots.When you are a Fighter pilot anything that is of the enemy's country and is flying near you must be shot down.Don't believe everything you read,find 2 other books on Mr.Hartmann and see if they say the same thing before you base your findings on just 1 book.
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Originally posted by Iceman24
Which I DON'T believe was the case in real life, the US pilots were saying that the German AC were awesome, but somehow in our game they can only climb ??? and if you slow em down they turn into bricks ???
Because AH is not real war. AH players and real WW2 pilots have absolutely different goals.
We want to have furball, or increase our scores, or just have fun. WW2 pilots did their job.
For example, FW was really awesome plane for bomber interception. It was designed for this purpose, and in the reality of WW2 US pilots had little to set against 190. After radar warning FW's had enough time and climb rate to get into position of advantage, and wonderful speed in dive and weapons allowed them to attack bombers regardless of covering P51's or 38's. Obviously, US pilots considered 190's superior fighter because it was very difficult for them to protect bombers against FW's.
But in Eastern front where most of the fights were low alt furballs or escort of attackers like IL2's on 1000-2000 meters altitude FW wasn't considered as serious threat. It wasn't impressive at all.
To see how good or bad planes were in real life we have to look into type of the missions they were designed for and how they accomplished them.
Obviously, the best fighter in AH is that which was created for missions like we have in MA - mostly low alt furball on the low speeds. FWr wasn't intended for such type of fight.
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The FW's were also very successful at getting into England and dropping they're bombs, before the RAF could even up any aircraft the FW's were already on they're way back to France.The FW's made a very good ground at5tackplatform.
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For example, FW was really awesome plane for bomber interception. It was designed for this purpose...
No it wasn't.
... and in the reality of WW2 US pilots had little to set against 190. After radar warning FW's had enough time and climb rate to get into position of advantage, and wonderful speed in dive and weapons allowed them to attack bombers regardless of covering P51's or 38's. Obviously, US pilots considered 190's superior fighter because it was very difficult for them to protect bombers against FW's.
190s were considered as superior fighters way before they ever thought of using them as interceptor aircraft, fighting Spitfires over the Channel, renowned for "great maneuverability".
But in Eastern front where most of the fights were low alt furballs or escort of attackers like IL2's on 1000-2000 meters altitude FW wasn't considered as serious threat. It wasn't impressive at all. To see how good or bad planes were in real life we have to look into type of the missions they were designed for and how they accomplished them.
It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out what's wrong in a plane, nor does it take a history teacher. The Fw190s and 109s are plagued with inherent stability issues, while its most significant opponents are totally free of any maneuvering troubles.
Obviously, the best fighter in AH is that which was created for missions like we have in MA - mostly low alt furball on the low speeds. FWr wasn't intended for such type of fight.
Neither was the P-51 or the P-47. And yet both dominate the Fw190 in a deck-alt fight where none of the three fighters were designed for. As a matter of fact the P-51 or P-47 dominates a lot of things in low-speed maneuvering.
The 190s, are pigs. Against any plane that outruns a 190, it has no chance at all. The 190 doesn't just 'have a large turning radius' - it refuses to turn at all. Nothing more to say of this.
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There are "issues" with the flight models of various aircraft. I could list a bunch of them, and they're not all German, but it seems kind of pointless. The Fw190s and Bf109s certainly seem to under perform in terms of handling and controlability at their performance edges. There are other aircraft that seem to have negative performance attributes too.
Some aircraft have "issues" that benefit them as well.
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Originally posted by Vad
For example, FW was really awesome plane for bomber interception. It was designed for this purpose, and in the reality of WW2 US pilots had little to set against 190. After radar warning FW's had enough time and climb rate to get into position of advantage, and wonderful speed in dive and weapons allowed them to attack bombers regardless of covering P51's or 38's. Obviously, US pilots considered 190's superior fighter because it was very difficult for them to protect bombers against FW's.
But in Eastern front where most of the fights were low alt furballs or escort of attackers like IL2's on 1000-2000 meters altitude FW wasn't considered as serious threat. It wasn't impressive at all.
paragraph 1: Fw-190 was an AIR SUPERIORITY fighter. It was designed to counter spits in the channel front and they did well.
paragraph 2: 190 was fast in lo alt, they stayed superrior against the LaGGs, leand lease planes, and I-16s until the arrival of La-5 :)
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The 190 doesn't just 'have a large turning radius' - it refuses to turn at all. Nothing more to say of this.
I really don't have a problem turning at low alts maybe because i set my hardeck at 10-K.So no i don't have low alt turning problems because i don't get caught low in a 190.
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
I really don't have a problem turning at low alts maybe because i set my hardeck at 10-K.So no i don't have low alt turning problems because i don't get caught low in a 190.
Probably don't fight very much either, do you?
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Probably don't fight very much either, do you?
You don't even play this game any more,so why you tryin too get in where you don't fit in?
Your right about 1 thing,when i'm in my 190 it's not much of a fight for them at all,usually 2-3 moves and they are toast.
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Lol.
move 1 : find a plane fighting multiple friendlies
move 2 : cherrypick said plane
move 3 : gloat about you 1337 sk1llz on the BBS.
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In regards to flap use by Mustang pilots:
"Kit" Carson of the 357th FG "If you're jumped, remember in the P-51 you've got (other than the Spitfire) the best defensive fighter in the business. Reef it in with full power and manoeuvring flaps ..."
Bob Welden of the 354th FG "... I finally got my sights on him from above by applying thirty degrees of flaps and full RPM."
Ed Heller of the 352nd FG "When I finally dumped flaps to decrease my turning radius ..."
Jim Starnes of the 339th FG "Since I was using maximum power and ten degrees of flaps to assist in my turn, I was easily outturning the FW-190 ahead of me."
Dick Asbury of the 363rd FG "I also lowered about twenty degrees of flaps. The use of flaps decreased the airplane's stalling speed and thus allowed greater maneuverability at lower speeds."
Bob Goebel of the 31st FG "Then I did something I didn't like to do: I put down 10 degrees of flaps. Putting the flaps down enabled me to turn tighter, but it reduced me speed."
"Bud" Anderson of the 357th FG "Instead of cobbing it like before and sailing on by him, I decide to turn hard left inside him, knowing that if I lose speed and don't make it I probably won't get home. I pull back on the throttle slightly, put down 10 degrees of flaps, and haul back on the stick just as hard as I can."
A lot of P-51 pilots used their flaps when needed. Some of these guys thought this was the greatest thing since sliced bread, and others preffered to just BnZ. The only information given in the P-51's pilot manual is airspeed limitations for flap useage. It doesn't give any flap G restrictions, and makes no mention of them in the prohibited maneuvers, accelerations limitations, or operating flight limits.
AH has it modeled correctly - they are there to use. The obvious drawback is that you have to slow down to do so which makes you vulnerable to attack.
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Oh, and with regard to Yeager's opinion of the 190, his actual quote is: "The Focke-Wulf 190 was the only one in the same league with the Mustang." This being based on the captured German and Japanese aircraft he flew at Wright field. Another quote from Chuck: "Regarding the fighters themselves, I flew the P-47, P-38, Bf 109, Fw 190, Spitfire and several other lesser known types, and the P-51D was by far the best war machine"
Not quite "the 190 was superior to the pony in many ways, and that his pilots had to rely on superior skills and tactics when fighting them"
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Move:1-Vertical after merge
Move:2-Reverse onto target
Move:3-Shoot target from sky
Cherry picking is for BK's and dweebs,which one are you?
when they start furballing at 15-K again then maybe i will cherry pick.
You should really read the entire thread before speaking out of turn.
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
Move:1-Vertical after merge
Move:2-Reverse onto target
Move:3-Shoot target from sky
Cherry picking is for BK's and dweebs,which one are you?
when they start furballing at 15-K again then maybe i will cherry pick.
You should really read the entire thread before speaking out of turn.
well. first urchin is a very good pilot in any plane, and have seen some first class flying in the LW variety from him.......i had a great film of him once on the deck, out numbered, and winning.
not sure is a fair statement about the bk's...just the other night i ran into them at about 4-5k...they were in 190's.
so what is your fighing alt 10-20k. what are you attacking bombers, and heavy attack planes? just curious as to what makes you so good, maybe you could post a film so that we all might learn.
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
You don't even play this game any more,so why you tryin too get in where you don't fit in?
Not online I don't very often, but I still pay my fee and keep my account open. My last flight online was earlier this month in the AvA. I bagged a Yak-9T, Hurri IIc and La-5FN while flying the Bf109G-2. I doubt I climbed above 5,000ft though, so I obviously lack your skill.
You don't fight much because it is hard to find people who will stay above your hard deck. Heck, it is hard to find people above it at all sometimes.
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He's just trying to start a fight with the BKs to destract everybody from his timid flying. Carry on Auto, proclaim your greatness and how you PWN everyone screaming in at 50K;)
BTW did you use to go by tedstrkr or 1hunglo? You sure remind me of them.
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if you want to see how good the 109 can be, go to the Allied vs Axis arena this week
it is BOB right now with a rolling planeset
you can't appreciate the 109, nor most other planes in the choas called the MA
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Originally posted by Urchin
Lol.
move 1 : find a plane fighting multiple friendlies
move 2 : cherrypick said plane
move 3 : gloat about you 1337 sk1llz on the BBS.
That's about the size of it today.
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Learn to shoot 30mm's and some ACM. Problem solved. The plane sucks, but it can be fought in.
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I am curious to see what the flaps will do when Hitech releases the next update with the 109 flaps deploying at the proper speeds. I do not think they are going to be super flaps like the 51 has but they will make some difference.
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morpheus, REALLY on the next update 109 will be allowed faster deploying flaps?
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maybe you could post a film so that we all might learn.
I have no way of posting them or else i would.
Yes i do fly above 10-K too 15-K there is so much more room too manuver up there,and that's one of the strong points of the 190.
The comment about the BK's was just to get there pretty pink panties in a bunch,and just cuz i can.
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Originally posted by bagrat
morpheus, REALLY on the next update 109 will be allowed faster deploying flaps?
Thats what Pyro said in the big thread on LW that NathBDP started. I am curious to see if they stick to the LW charts or not...
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well, very good news, glad to read it. ty
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
The comment about the BK's was just to get there pretty pink panties in a bunch,and just cuz i can.
I don't think it worked bud, but thanks for playing. Oh, and we wear blue panties, hence the name.
So which one are you, 1hunglo or tedstrkr?
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I dont even regard AutoMouth as even a half good stick, so if he wants to call me a cherry picker more power to him. :aok
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I must say, the 109 does seem to have alot of problems. The G14 does have mainly top speed problems... I myself love to BnZ, thats my favorite style by far, the old 109s were great BnZing machines, but the new ones are junk. I've pretty much always flew anything that loops well, the 109s, Spit14, Ki-84(My favorite), the P-38 ect, but the 109s now have such turning problems that there almost impossable to aim even in the vertical. They have great climb and zoom climb, but that lack of turn rate really hurts.
It is said that the 109 had some turning problems in the later models do to the lack of wing area, with an increase of almost 2,000 pounds and no increase of wing area will destroy your turn rate, easly! Though the huge increase in engine power helped, it didn't seem to help enough.
As said above, I've also read that the Germans main problem was the Allies numbers, and in the end thats how they were destoyed, a country the size of Texas can't take on two of the largest countries in the world for very long (Russia and US). The US started detaching the bomber escorts from the bombers, when the German intercepters would up from there bases the escorts would often leave the bombers and attack the fighter, even after the Germans would halt there attack. They were in the end almost purly hunted down till there was almost nothing let.
What gets me is there was actully still enough aircraft to defend Germany, they were actully running more out of people then anything else.
So basicly, I'd have to say the 109's and 190s really are having trouble keeping up, this isn't anything new, lots of people have talked about this and HTC has even said they'ed fix some of it like the G14's top speed. But your best bet for now is either switch to another ride, wait for the new patch and hope, or go to a different game like Target Ware (http://www.Targetware.net) ! There modeling and engine control is very realistic, take off is a little touchy but it's still a beta.
Edward
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"if I asked Eric Hartmann he would tell me that the 109G6 is probably the best because I believe thats what he mostly flew"
ill cry one for the allies..if hartmann and company had spits in the beginning of the war with their skill and tactics i doubt the brits would have lasted very long..JMO..spits are labeled easy mode for a reason, they are exceptional aircraft. imagine hartmann and his wingman being able to engage low cons without fear of being outurned? the 109 and 190 were designed to engage with alt and speed and and wingman tactics.. something the brits had none of early war...i know im mixing AH with reality but I think alot of this debate in AH stems from vets flying axis planes and still being at a disadvantage even with the skill set they possess. trust me if the top ftr squads all upped in spit 16's. lalas. etc. all the time the dessimation would launch a million threads on bbs..the skill set of AH pilots is a huge gap unfortunately. I think Hitech does a fair job of controlling this through plane models and perks, thus the nonperked la7 and spit 16..u perk either one and i think alot of newbs would be severely frustrated and cancel their account. Just ranting here..flame away.
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Originally posted by Morpheus
I am curious to see what the flaps will do when Hitech releases the next update with the 109 flaps deploying at the proper speeds. I do not think they are going to be super flaps like the 51 has but they will make some difference.
My crystal ball forsee a crying fest when flaps do not turn the 109 into the uber plane some expect it to be.
Bozon
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The issue isn't whether or not the 109 was a good fighter in WWII and how it matched to the US planes. The issue is whether or not the new 109 models in the game are worth their salt against the other planes IN THE GAME. Frankly, I used to love the old G10, if you flew it right it could turn well, you could climb like a rocket, and it was great if you could get your oponent into a vertical scissors or use slashing attacks.
The new models have horrible visibility which is matched by planes such as the fm2. The k4 has some serious stability issues, and although it can climb, as it loses speed it gets real heavy real quick which is something the old g10 didn't do. I love lobbin taters so the loss of gondolas wasn't a factor, but it sure hindered the F model in my opinion. That old F was a sweet ride and could match the old spit 5 in turns. Now it seems to be a shell of what it used to be being underpowered, under gunned, and suffering from the same stability issues.
I see some guys still fly the 109s with some frequency, but I mega kill sprees from guys like Nath, Wetrat, Apar, etc with the old g10, where now it doesn't seem so commonplace. Something has definetely crippled those models in comparison to the other planes in the game. Just my take on it.
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"morpheus, REALLY on the next update 109 will be allowed faster deploying flaps?"
Why? They were handcranked and not very fast to deploy in the first place?
"My crystal ball forsee a crying fest when flaps do not turn the 109 into the uber plane some expect it to be."
Of course, that would simply be too much for some people. Imagine the amount of crying if it would. :p
-C+
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im sorry, but i love the G14, beside known issues with it, top speed and flaps, it flies great. It can turn ok, not great, but ok. it is not a spit. when i flew the K4, it zoomed great, and the 30mm makes for a nice explosion, when i hit with it. I just dont think you can expect to turn low and slow in a furball with spits and expect to win them all. against lesser sticks, sure, but when you meet a semi compentant guy in a spit, you may be in over your head.
all this crap about brining G10 back is useless, quit crying, enjoy the 2 planes ya got. they are beauties.
this is from a P38 junkie who is slowly converting.:aok
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good for you killinU. the allied stuff is just way too easy to fly and not as much to me. and you are absolutely right on those counts.
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The flaps were handcranked with some 8 (?) revolutions on the wheel from fully up to down.
So if the flaps are "fixed", they will deploy slower.
But they should be deployable at higher speeds, as already pointed out in the 109 Flaps thread.
Good and bad...
But, - I rather like the 109 in AH anyway ;)
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Originally posted by Charge
"morpheus, REALLY on the next update 109 will be allowed faster deploying flaps?"
Why? They were handcranked and not very fast to deploy in the first place?
-C+
Make up your mind. Question or statement. :)
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When I find my piloting skills starting to atrophy, I start flying the 109. I figure if I can get kills in a 109 then I can get kills in anything.
The trick to the 109 is to think of it as a bolt-action gun; fire quick bursts and save your ammo. The MGs are useless so your real measure of ammo will be the cannon rounds. For all models, I bring 100% fuel and a drop tank, because you never know how far you'll have to go to find something to shoot down. Its also a good idea to map your elevator trim to your stick to avoid loss of elevator control at high speed, and to increase turn rate a bit at speed. Remember: WEP on when nose up, WEP off when nose down. If you get slow enough that you can deploy flaps, you're probably going to get whacked by a Spitfire or N1k, but you have a pretty good chance against a Mustang or Spit XIV, depending on attitudes, positions, relative speeds, and pilot skill. Mustangs are particularly vulnerable to overshooting their targets, so as the 'stang flies past, you can hit WEP and get off a quick shot before he gets out of range. Don't forget to use rudder to correct for engine torque.
109F: Short range fighter, works best without gondolas, best forward visibility of the group but can't see out the back very well. You can expect to get snuck up on from behind quite a bit if you don't kick rudder to clear your baffles from time to time. Only fire at or under d400.
109G2: Leave the gondolas at home. Fly it like a 109F. Its a nimble little plane. Great roll rate at speed but will stiffen up if speed gets over 300 or so. As with the 109F, only fire at or under d400.
109G6: Engine torque will really mess with the stability, particularly when using WEP. It'll want to snap to the left unless you apply counter stick and/or rudder. You can consider gondolas, but if you do then you might be better off in a G14. Rear visibility is improved. If you have a problem controlling your speed, then take the G6 over the G14 as it is slightly slower and less likely to nose-plant into the ground if you get stuck in an extended dive. Just remember that if you're bringing gondies then you can expect to pay a weight penalty.
109G14: Gondolas make great counter-balances to the engine torque and also improve your lethality. You'll pay a bit with loss of top-end speed, but I consider this a good thing since the 109 will stiffen as you get fast. Gondolas also improve the cone of fire so you have a little leeway to the left and right of the pipper. You're not going to outrun a Mustang, Typhoon, 190D, or LA-7 anyway (depending on starting speeds and rate of descent), but you still have a shot at destroying them before they destroy you so don't be afraid to engage. The 109 motor has a lot of pull to it with WEP, so it can accellerate a bit better than a Mustang. Its a good idea to use tracers, for two reasons. One, bullet drop-off takes some getting use to, and two, if you find that your quarry is out-running you, you can use the nose MGs to "tickle" your target into turning and allowing you to close the gap, then finish him with your cannons. He won't be able to distinguish MG rounds from cannon rounds.
109K: I haven't flown this one much. I never had much luck with the 30mm when it was a G10 due to my poor marksmanship. I do remember it being nose-heavy so I assume that carried over with the introduction of the K model.
Ok, that's enough to get you started.
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Sry Morph.
They were handcranked and not very fast to deploy in the first place!
I doubt if any plane of that era had "fast" flaps but I think a handcrank is the slowest way of deploying them. At least if you can rotate the wheel only 90 deg at a time.
That is my impression of the matter. I wouldn't mind if I'm wrong in this particular matter... :D
-C+
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Just to pop back to the ME vs Bf thing for a minute...
Just saw something about this recetly, so it's fresh in my mind.
Bf (someone else already posted the correct German) was a derivation of the name of the original design house, which employed Willy Messerschmitt (who designed the 109). Problem was, she was designed and offered to the German govt in the mid 1930's, and ole' Willy was NOT in good favor at that time.
The 109 actually won a design competition, but Willy was forbidden from building them. Only his competitors were granted production licenses.
Ultimately, the 109 proved itself a superior aircraft (of it's day) and Willy Messerschmitt came to be highly favored. It was then suggested that the name of the organization be changed to Messerschmitt.
As I recall, both Bf and Me were considered acceptable and interchangeable, and remain so to this day.
Maybe an erroneous detail somewhere, but I'm pretty certain that's the gist of it.
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One thing you have to remember C, is that regardless of how fast they can deploy, the speeds at which they are "allowed" to deploy at are far from correct.
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So, if they are corrected:
1: They deploy very much slower than they do
2: They deploy, to some certain extent, at speeds they do not right now.
Correct?
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Originally posted by Angus
But, - I rather like the 109 in AH anyway ;)
For someone who likes the 109 you sure don't fly it much in the MA.
You keep saying how "great" the 109s feel and yet you have only couple of kills in them per tour more deaths than kills actually. You keep saying how "sweet" the 109s are and you barely fly it.
You fly a sortie or two in a 109 per tour so that you can keep saying your a Spit/109-guy (your own words) here in the BBS...and keep repeating that "109 is sweet, 109 is sweet..."?
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Originally posted by gofaster
When I find my piloting skills starting to atrophy, I start flying the 109. I figure if I can get kills[SNIP]
Gofaster I think you haven't flown the 109s since the update. Your information might be outdated. My take:
-109F has no gondies, its view is just as bad (worse?) as the rest of the 109s after their face lift.
-109g2: only reason to take it is the gondolas now (which differentiates the F4/G2, however)
-109g6: rear view now sucks, has standard canopy. For that matter, front view sucks too. The torque is no more a problem on the G6 than the G14 and K4, that is if you're low and slow with flaps out and trying a nose high spiral you'll be flopping big time, but then so will all 109s at this point, nothing new here. That's not engine related, that's plane related instability.
G14: Well it currently sucks. It's basically the G6 we used to have, and not much faster. I've got a few bomber formations under my belt in a G14 but still nothing spectacular.
K4: sucks. period. flops about, horribly unstable, at a worse rate than the old G10 did. The stats might be the same but some bug was introduced where the plane can't remain in level flight without autopilot [/hyperbole]
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Originally posted by storch
good for you killinU. the allied stuff is just way too easy to fly and not as much to me. and you are absolutely right on those counts.
Try the Mossie, P-40B or Spit I and you'll find that not all Allied aircraft are quite so easy.
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I've only flown the F, G2, and G6 a couple of times this month, none with gondies. Most of my 109 time has been the G14 with gondies. I haven't flown the K at all.
The F's forward visibility is better than the others because the front paning isn't as thick (less armour up front). The G6 has the clear-glass armour headrest but same canopy, so the rear-view is a bit better than the F and G2. G2 is the worst for visibility, both front and back.
Right now, I think the G14 is probably the best all-around fighter in the 109 line.
If only the G10 came back as it was...
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Try the Mossie, P-40B or Spit I and you'll find that not all Allied aircraft are quite so easy.
He does have a Point there.
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I have flown only 109K last 3 tours. It feels like g10 before to me, i never used gondolas in g10 anyway. All the time 30mm nose cannon.
I do dogfite low and slow in 109K, but not in multibogey situation. It is best to use 109 vertical fight like everyone here knows.
I use flaps only on top of zoom or spiral to turn nose down faster and to have better controll doing that at low speed.
I use manual elevtrimm all the time: to get in dive and out of dive. It easily dives over 500mph even 540mph.
30mm cannon is close range weapon, mostly because you cannot afford spray and pray with 65 rounds.
puujiiko o
btw, how does spit flaps work in AH? In RL those were on/off airbrakes.
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i'll take our spit 1 and hurri 1 and the mossy over any of our 109s/190s... I actually like the mossy and the hurr 1's, I especially like the P40E to go playing around in... most ppl don't like the early hurri/spit because of the .303's, just bring your convergance in to 200 or less and they work descent, and I fly 38's mainly so switching over to the mossy ain't no thang, I really like the 4 hizookas in the nose :)
Krusty I agree with everything you said, there basically just flying bricks in my mind, only descent at 1 thing and not even great at that which is bnzing, I'll take a 38,pony, corsair, or jug any day of the week for that job over any LW AC we have. I used to like to fly the F model around, but like you guys have said, something happened to em and they just feel real sluggish all the time, maybe its just me and I'm getting used to other planes now, but I used to fly the Dora quite a bit as well as the 109F model and they just feel all wrong now. If you don't come in with a 10k alt advantage then you better hope the enemy plane is a dweeb... I will retract and say that I do like the 110's, those planes are fun :) but you can keep the rest until there FM's are fixed. The views really don't bother me as much as they feel like flyin rocks now.
On the subject of hand cranked flaps... I could care less if a midgit climbs out onto the wing and lowers em as long as they will actually lower, I don't care if it takes 10 seconds or 30 seconds they really need to be deployable. But as it is now, the flaps only increase your turning ability by a small amount right now at slow speeds, but I would be willing to bet they would be greatly used like the pony when at higher speeds to create overshoots and turn way better at say 230mph
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Although it might sound like I'm trying to be a smart*** I have a serious question to ask. If the 109 is so "porked" how come guys like stang, apar and Nath have no problems fighting with it on the deck against spits and such? I have film after film of those guys tearing it up on the deck. I use the following as examples because they're squadies and I see a lot of their films. Maybe it simply comes down to some of us needing to practice with it more in a dogfighting fashion than in the BnZ mode you always see it in. Flying in the MA is a totally different animal than the DA/TA. I think many of us have success in the MA picking, ganging and fighting noobs but when we're forced to push ourselfs it can be a total different story. Not to say you all aren't very good sticks but I know from personnal experience that the more time I spend in the MA and not in the TA/DA the sloppier my flying feels. I think many of us feel we outgrow the TA/DA. I know whenever I was in the DA fighting any of the above 3, sure enough they were mixing up with spits and zeros on the deck.
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Originally posted by SuperDud
I have film after film of those guys tearing it up on the deck. I use the following as examples because they're squadies and I see a lot of their films.
Am sure you do, but they are home made videos and they don't inlcude 109s :O
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zOMG!!!! Teh seekcrits owt!#
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Originally posted by SuperDud
zOMG!!!! Teh seekcrits owt!#
brrrrrrrrooouuuuuum, open wide supa, here comes the airplane. vrrrroooooooouuuuummm
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hey the Fw-190 needs to be fixed too!:aok
190s had combat flaps too (can only be deployed below 300 mph)
(search the aircraft/vehicle forum for more info)
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Again, I'm just saying that what they were isn't what they are now. They have gotten a bit worse, from visibility and stability to acceleration. Like super said, the old g10 was fun to furball with when you figured out how to do the slashing attacks, I'd rather have an fm2 than the current k4, when before the update, I would take the g10 over a 51D.
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Originally posted by Howitzer
Again, I'm just saying that what they were isn't what they are now. They have gotten a bit worse, from visibility and stability to acceleration. ... I'd rather have an fm2 than the current k4, when before the update, I would take the g10 over a 51D.
The K4 IS the old G10 with limited gun options. You may say 30mm option sucks but the plane is the same. Same goes for the rest of the 109s save the G14 which is new. The man himself said so. Last time they had an FM change if I'm not mistaken was the switch from AHI to AHII.
Please stop these ridiculous 2.6 claims and concentrate on what was wrong with the 109s since version II. That was when the stability issues showed up. Keeping this up just makes it sound like a whine.
Bozon
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Originally posted by bozon
The K4 IS the old G10 with limited gun options. You may say 30mm option sucks but the plane is the same. Same goes for the rest of the 109s save the G14 which is new. The man himself said so. Last time they had an FM change if I'm not mistaken was the switch from AHI to AHII.
Please stop these ridiculous 2.6 claims and concentrate on what was wrong with the 109s since version II. That was when the stability issues showed up. Keeping this up just makes it sound like a whine.
Bozon
I never said the gun package sucked, I like the plain 30. What I'm saying is that the k4 now and the g10 when it left don't feel the same and they don't look the same from the cockpit view. Call it ridiculous or call it a whine, I really don't care, but I'm saying (along with quite a few others) that it feels like it changed.
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I dont think the 109 fm changed. However i do think it will be nice to see the following changes - some hinted by htc allready.
1) flap deployment speed upped for 109s
2) g14 performance improved
3) 200 rounds of 20mm for G6 and G14 engine mg151
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hmm..... yes.........quite. and shiggity shiggity shwaah
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Ok, then lets stop with this nonsense of Nath, Wetrat and some others having *very* good results using the 109K-4. Do I have to dig out Citabria (if I'm not wrong) with his 10:1 K/D with the C.202 to demonstrate .... nothing? Do I have to dig out the miserable K/D ratios of the two new UFO Spitfires to demonstrate they are porked a/c? Numbers mean nothing. Here we are talking of the average pilot. And the average pilot find Spitfires, Ponies and Jugs flying on rails, while 109s and 190s are, IMO, too demanding at the edges of the flight envelope. The fact that I'm above average with the 109K-K or the 205 (in the past) mean nothing. It only means I spend too much hours in them, trying to learn how to fly and fight and manage their (in)stability ..... phewwww :rolleyes:
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"One thing you have to remember C, is that regardless of how fast they can deploy, the speeds at which they are "allowed" to deploy at are far from correct."
I think I missed the point totally. Was the original meaning of "faster deploying flaps" that they should deploy in faster speeds? I thought it meant that the deploying speed should be increased, not the speed they deploy in.
Sry 'bout that. :confused:
The wrong speeds in which the 109 flaps can deploy has been clear to me so long that I simply didn't understand that there was any doubt of it. I thought that HTC simply had a reason to limit the "deploying speeds" due to some strange functionality in their flight model but after P51 etc. got their flaps fixed I started waiting it to happen to other planes too.
-C+
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wait... so you guys are saying that a high wing loaded high hp plane doesn't seem to turn as well as the low wing loaded planes in the game and that acceleration and climb are only as good as other planes with the same hp and weight?
Then... to top it off... we are finding that a cramped little cockpit with a palte of armor at the back and a gazillion braces in the canopy is not giving you that "bubble top view"???
This is obviously part of the conspiracy against luftwhiners rearing it's ugly biggoted head...
It is like... Like saying that by the end of the war... the 109 was... dated!
Have they not heard of Hartman?
Don't they realize how snazzy and menacing the LW uniform is on virtual pile its?
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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"wait... so you guys are saying that a high wing loaded high hp plane doesn't seem to turn as well as the low wing loaded planes in the game and that acceleration and climb are only as good as other planes with the same hp and weight? "
Ooops. We must be wrong. I never came to think about it from those crushing facts point of view. :lol
-C+
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With G10 i could catch a pony . With K i cant, pony is faster.
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Originally posted by Angus
So, if they are corrected:
1: They deploy very much slower than they do
2: They deploy, to some certain extent, at speeds they do not right now.
Correct?
The speed in which they are lowered should remain the same. I do not believe there was a call to change this. I don't think anyone here, not me anyways, said that they were going to slow down the actually time it takes to lower the flaps.
Rather, they will be allowed or should be allowed in AH to deploy at a much faster MPH than they currently do.
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I've seen the flaps on a Spit deployed on a runway and they come down like a guillotine, not so in AH. Also gear is either instantly up or down in AH which kind of irks me when my I'm being out turned by F4U's with everything hanging out. My point is, not sure if actual time for some events are in the code.
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109's are fine ,it's just that the other planes have now closed the gap,more spits to contend with. I fly the 109g2 as my primary plane ,I have some fair success in it ,I would check my stats in it but I dont know how to check them.I think the g2 handles best of all the 109's while it doesnt have the climb rate of the k4 it is only 300fpm slower but does corner considerbly better,the f4 isnt quit as nimble as it was before the update,G14 is great when slow,seems to be a little more stable than the rest to me,but lacks the overall ease of flying that the g2 delivers.I've discovered that lots of throttle management and flap useage in the g2 seems to help me.Overall I think the g2 came through the remake a little less marred than the rest of the 09's.The k4 is awsome in the vertical and ussually can climb its way outta trouble.My aim isnt the greatest so the 30mm cannon and me just dont get along to well.G6 has no obvious strength that I can tell,slow,stiff,wont roll.HMM sounds like my ol squerril dog.Anyway just my take on the 109's.
CRETON
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I heard that 109G-14 is lighter than previous 109G-6. Is that true? If yes 109G-14 feels heavier than 109G-6 in overall manuverability:huh
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A lot of people say the K model is the G-10 in this thread and other thread's.I feel that the K is better than the G-10 in all aspects.The G-14,you have to have no gondola's and keep it fast as if it were a G-2.I find i really don't deploy flaps as much in the K as in the old 109's,there's no need too it pretty much fly's itself.
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
Move:1-Vertical after merge
Move:2-Reverse onto target
Move:3-Shoot target from sky
Cherry picking is for BK's and dweebs,which one are you?
when they start furballing at 15-K again then maybe i will cherry pick.
You should really read the entire thread before speaking out of turn.
I've read the entire thread.
Let's see....10k hard deck and 3 moves. Wow Ted, I'm impressed!!! You must show me those moves sometime... I'm in the TA after 9 PM eastern several nights a week.
In the meanwhile, ask Urchin to demonstrate his 190 skills. Maybe you can locate NathBDP, he could demonstrate the 190A-8; but you'll have to come down a bit as I don't think I've ever seen Nath above 3k in a 190.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Widewing
Wow Ted, I'm impressed!!!
Widewing
My thoughts exactly WW :rofl
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I try to fly every fighter there is in this game at least 5 hours a month per plane.I have been doing that for going on 5 years now.I feel confident with my ability's against anyone,afterall it is a GAME.
I know for sure i don't ever have to worry about suprdud,he couldn't shoot me down if widewing did it for him!
WORD [/SIZE]
:rofl :rofl :rofl
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Your probably right, then again we'll never know because I never get to your "hard deck":aok
You sure talk a good game, but by the very description of your flying I think that's all it is..talk. I bet you would shoot me down, as you scream in from 20k and I'm on the deck fighting 2-3 other guys.
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Your probably right, then again we'll never know because I never get to your "hard deck"
HAHAHAHAHA LOL hard decks are for radishs that can't fight LOLH.
I try to fly every fighter there is in this game at least 5 hours a month per plane.
hahahah as if there were neough time in a month hahaha
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believe what you will,but i know what my skills are and so do alot of others that found out the hard way.
Superpud i cleared up the Cherry picking in the other thread,if i was a gang cherry picker i'de be a BK or a well you get the point.
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lol your skills? wanna show me your skills?
Edit: Btw, its always the one hating on the other guy because he put himself in a chitty situation and got killed low'n slow otd. You wanna talk watermelon about all the BK's behind a shade acct on the BB like a tough guy, go for it. Ted.
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Originally posted by bozon
The K4 IS the old G10 with limited gun options. You may say 30mm option sucks but the plane is the same. Same goes for the rest of the 109s save the G14 which is new. The man himself said so. Last time they had an FM change if I'm not mistaken was the switch from AHI to AHII.
If thats the case then they inadvertently changed it without realising it.
As someone who has flown untill the last week or so 109s almost exclusively that if something changes, even a small change Im gonna notice.
And I did notice.
Something is definately different.
Either that or they souped up even more the other planes
Or maybe its just the poorer visability out of them thats making the difference.
but something whether intentional or by accident has definatly been changed.
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
believe what you will,but i know what my skills are and so do alot of others that found out the hard way.
I'll take that challenge, and just to make it fair to you I will give you a 5K advantage, but the fight will be at 1K not 15K.
if i was a gang cherry picker i'de be a BK or a well you get the point.
Not likely. Despite the fact that we let hub in the squad, we do have standards that you could never meet, and they dont involve 1337 flying skillz.
Sooo, you gonna back up your talk?
PS: what is your ingame name so we can marvel at your prowess by looking at your score?
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Auto I too would fight you any time you'd like. But that would mean revealing what your game name is and we both know that's not happening what with all the times you've been ridiculed in the past. It's kind of sad really. Just like in the past you talk of your "skillz" and when someone challenged you on it, you decline claiming one thing or another so I really don't care what you say because that's all it is, talk. So don't bother with it unless you want to back it up. I to could go on and on about my mad skillz and claim you wouldn't be a challenge, etc. Would it be true? In this case, probably. But until it's happened who knows? So just save yourself the time and effort and:
A) Put up
B) Shut up
It's really that simple. I have nothing else to say to you unless you'd like to back up your claims. If not, oh well I won't lose any sleep over it.
Oh and why are you bothering to reply to the boards. I can't imagine you have a lot of time for it seeing how you spend 5 hours every month in every aircraft. You better get on it;)
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I have a hard deck. It's called dirt.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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I really doubt he will reveal his in game name, or put up and fight.
Guys like him, with big mouths and too much time on their hands always talk far better than they can fight. And are the reason I find lately that, shooting drones down in Lomac is a helluva lot more fun and challenging than engaging cannon fodder with a big mouth attached to it.
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Originally posted by Urchin
Lol.
move 1 : find a plane fighting multiple friendlies
move 2 : cherrypick said plane
move 3 : gloat about you 1337 sk1llz on the BBS.
You noticed that too? lmao
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"I've seen the flaps on a Spit deployed on a runway and they come down like a guillotine, not so in AH."
I'm not sure if they are operated by pressurized air or hydraulic fluid. If they are pneumatic their operation may be slower airborne because of the opposing airpressure on the flap.
If they are hydraulic their operation is not hindered very much airborne if the pump is strong enough.
Maybe there is a film of a Spit flown by Mark Hanna where the deployment speed of flaps could be seen. (I mean how fast the flap deploys here :) )
-C+
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Hard deck, hard deck ... hmmmm ... I havent heard about that term since the times of Warbirds 1 and the DocDoom guide to the "Butcher Bird" ...
Online arenas have been changing a lot during all these years. Today, flying a 190A, you can be chased down by almost all the planes in the set.
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
I have a hard deck. It's called dirt.
-- Todd/Leviathn
I can't find the dirt through the trees. They have a long reach...
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I read all this, so out of curiousity I went to the main arean and booked out a K4. The result was two quick kills with only 16 30 mm cannon shells used. It would have been three except for the that verdammt tree which got in the way and killed me. Now I'm a crap pilot who is usually only cannon fodder to everyone else including trees. But suddenly I was an ace.
They key is obviously no fancy stuff when flying the K4. Dive down and when the bogey fills the windscreen fire. One hit and it goes down. If you get too fast. The bloody thing won't turn. If you get too slow you get killed. If you try to turn you get killed.
I think I could be very successful in a K4 as long as I stuck to BnZ.
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Charge I agree with what your saying but my main point re this thread and fast/slow deployment is that I dunno what events like flap and gear deployment are actually coded in AH to mimick RL.
Gear is either instantaneously up or down, flaps like on the on the Ki84 take a while to deploy, the only change in my time was to the 3 stabs on the E key to get you rolling down the runway immediately which was removed in one of the updates.
I've no idea how long it takes to restart a hot engine once airborne but you can still do that instantaneously.
So how fast/slow 109 flap deployment is in RL is a moot point, imho.
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:rofl :rofl :rofl
Too bad i,m not the fly near the ground type,1 fay you will realize that having alot of space to fight is way more fun and i know that 1 of you won't come up there let alone 3 of ya,cuz thats what it seems too take.
But i'm glad i got a rise out of all of you ,after all that's what my objective was and i am so good at it.
Superpud,i have forgotten more about this game than you know.
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
Superpud,i have forgotten more about this game than you know.
And yet he's still better than you at it. How is that?
-- Todd/Leviathn
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1 fay you will realize that having alot of space to fight is way more fun and i know that 1 of you won't come up there let alone 3 of ya,cuz thats what it seems too take.
One day you'll realize that you're the one being laughed at. But not before you learn how to spell.
I'm not sure what's funnier. The fact that you think you are just that good, or the fact that you really do suck as bad as your attempted flames. Regardless, after several names both on the BBS and in game and all your smack talking, you still couldnt fight your way out of a wet paper bag. It's also cute you haven't let on to your old names yet. LOL is that because you've lived in GVs for how long?
L33t Spawn camper meet's "Cherry picking BK's".
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I love how you BK studmuffinz think nobody but yourselve's is good at this game and nobody can learn and master ACM like you guys can,oh dear lord i am so worried now.And i'm so worried that you and your girlfriends don't care about me,whatever am i too do,oh no the communtiy,the GAME oh i am so doomed now.
Really get a life guys it;s just a GAME......
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
Really get a life guys it;s just a GAME......
I agree, it is just a game. So why are you inviting comparisons of skill and thumping your chest about how long you've played or how much you know? That's juvenile.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Mr. AutoPilot's mastery of teh ACMz extends no further than stick-to-belly turns and WEP dive-running.
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
I love how you BK studmuffinz think nobody but yourselve's is good at this game and nobody can learn and master ACM like you guys can,oh dear lord i am so worried now.
We never said other people cant learn ACM, we said you specifically.
I will be glad to climb up to any alt you want, alone, you just give me the time, the plane you want me to fly, and what your name is so I can find you.
So, once again the ball is in your court, are you going to back up your talk or are you going to hide?
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ahh the blue velvet safety squad busy marking their territory for the males to find them. yes it's true AP they are the legends in their own minds. I hear they are pretty good at chinese checkers too.
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I would PWN you at Chinese Checkers Storch!!1!
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Originally posted by wetrat
Mr. AutoPilot's mastery of teh ACMz extends no further than stick-to-belly turns and WEP dive-running.
you mean there is more? :)
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Really get a life guys it;s just a GAME......
You're exactly right. What makes the BK's better than you'll ever be is none of them log in with the tramendous chip on their shoulder that you've got.
I dont know what's worse. That chip you've got, or the fact that you call this "just a game" when we all know it means far more than just that to you. Its sad really, you're only fooling yourself man.
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ahh the blue velvet safety squad busy marking their territory for the males to find them. yes it's true AP they are the legends in their own minds. I hear they are pretty good at chinese checkers too.
HAHAHA look who jumps on the bandwagon of lame, another Perch Monkey.
It's like shooting fish in a barrel. Whats your hard deck Storch BwahhhaaahahahahahaLOLHROTFF hahahahahhahahahahahahhahaha:lol :rofl :rofl :lol :rofl
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Morph I thought you had to work? If not come get some Pitts time. I'll be at the del puerto de air at noon.
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Originally posted by mars01
HAHAHA look who jumps on the bandwagon of lame, another Perch Monkey.
It's like shooting fish in a barrel. Whats your hard deck Storch BwahhhaaahahahahahaLOLHROTFF hahahahahhahahahahahahhahaha:lol :rofl :rofl :lol :rofl
funny, I didn't know you were literate. Well back to current topic. I recall you being the easiest of the safety squad members to kill. Your deficit to me is what 8-10 fold? Here's some disquieting news for you. when I look up "sucks" in "The New Lexicon Webster's Dictonary of the English Language" the only entry is your photograph. you should write or send smoke signals or something and ask them to up date the photo. It was evidently taken when you were much younger. apparently you have been sucking since your youth.
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funny, I didn't know you were literate. Well back to current topic. I recall you being the easiest of the safety squad members to kill. Your deficit to me is what 8-10 fold? Here's some disquieting news for you. when I look up "sucks" in "The New Lexicon Webster's Dictonary of the English Language" the only entry is your photograph. you should write or send smoke signals or something and ask them to up date the photo. It was evidently taken when you were much younger. apparently you have been sucking since your youth.
Oh please only you would really believe this crap any way. Who the heck cares to count. All ten if that number is correct were cherries any 1 Vs 1 between the two of us, you lost. That is all that really counts.
I don't need to puff myself up because I cherried someone, I guess you do. I felt bad for your squaddies tho. There they were sluggin it out on the deck with the rest of us while you were climbing to you perch. LOL then you would make one or two passes, blow your advantage and run away. Mad skillz I say LOLH. You came in with more alt then brains in every engagement.
Every time you lost the advantage you ran like the three pigs from the big bad wolf. Again mad skillzz. You should fly the Air races, I'm sure you would be good at it, that is mostly what you do in CT, race to your ack. bwahhahahahaa:rofl
BTW - if you want I'll dig up the films. And if you feel that good, lets go to the DA some time and see if you can put up, cause we sure know you can't shut up lolh.
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Originally posted by mars01
Morph I thought you had to work? If not come get some Pitts time. I'll be at the del puerto de air at noon.
LOL i was just at circuit city 5 minutes away from the air port buying a new copy of lock-on. I was going to give you a ring but figured you were working. DOH.
Whatcha doin tomorrow? It just so happens that I am free until 2:30. :D
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FK!
Tomorrow is Pitts DAY as well! I'll be down at the airport at 11:00. Warm up the beast and fly at noon. If you can get there by then come on down. Call me in the morning.
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Nice.
I'll bring my G-String! ERrr I mean G-suit. :eek:
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
BLAH BLAH BLAH
Originally posted by SuperDud
A) Put up
B) Shut up
Until you pick option A, anything you say is meaningless. Anyone can come on here and proclaim there greatness. It means nothing. It is a game as you keep stating, and yet there you sit trying to sound like you are the tuffest pileit ever. Go ahead and make fun of my name. I freely made my own name of superdud to begin with :lol. Do you think I care what people say or think? Oh and here's a few for the future too: Supertard, megadud, subpardud etc etc. At least I'm not afraid for people to know my game name:aok
So carry on, hide behind your bbs name, talk a good game and if that day comes where you feel "brave" enough to fight me 1vs1 let me know.
Oh and 1 last thing, I know I'm not getting worked up. I'm just enjoying myself watching some clueless guy make a fool of himself. If it's true that you've forgotten more than I know then I think you better relearn it because you forgot all the important stuff. BTW who's to say I haven't been playing for 5 years also? Just because SuperDud's only been around a little over a year doesn't mean I haven't;)
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Give it up guys. He is too 1337 to lower himself to an arranged duel with mere dweebs like us.
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Originally posted by SuperDud
If it's true that you've forgotten more than I know then I think you better relearn it because you forgot all the important stuff.
Pwned.
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I am the least skilled of the BK's..
I have killed autopilot at least a dozen times for every time he killed me in the past under his old handle which...
He will never use again due to the shame he (rightly) feels.
pathetic really.... leave him alone you guys.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Ya know 4 or 5 nerds sayin the same thing doesn't make it true.
But keep up the free entertainment.
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
Ya know 4 or 5 nerds sayin the same thing doesn't make it true.
But keep up the free entertainment.
Welp I guess your counting is worse than your spelling, it's more like 9-10 nerds. But thanks for playing. And boy for all that trash you talked, you sure backed out quick:eek: Why don't you teach me? Why don't you show me, like you've shown "many others" LMAO!!!:rofl I know if some punk was calling me out, I'd definatly put him in his place, I guess you just have a kind heart huh?
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what are you quoting to be 1337 flying skills?
JMFJ
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
There are secrets to flying the LW planes,if you stick around long enough someone might share them with you.Just because you cannot fly LW doesn't mean the rest of us cannot.The FW-190's outclimb British planes any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
Originally posted by AutoPilot No one said you have to fly LW,you can leave that too me.
Originally posted by AutoPilot
I feel confident with my ability's against anyone.....
Originally posted by AutoPilot
believe what you will,but i know what my skills are and so do alot of others that found out the hard way.
ya, you talk alot about your skills, so it is important to you. if you are so confident with your ability's why not take those who question them up to their challenge. seems the minute someone questions your "skillz" you start name calling, or excusing yourself. your right it is a game, so what do you have to lose?
btw, you can put me down for nerd #11....does that make it true now?
-vast (not hiding behind shade)
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
Ya know 4 or 5 nerds sayin the same thing doesn't make it true.
But keep up the free entertainment.
So you are declining my invitation to back up your boasts?
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
Ya know 4 or 5 nerds sayin the same thing doesn't make it true.
But keep up the free entertainment.
You called us out, and it sounds like both morpheus and superdud have answered your call in this thread. Yet, you won't even give them your ingame CPID to back up your wild claims and your fearlessness. So lets quit beating around the bush, you didn't think anyone would answer, but they did and now you are hung out to dry.
Just go ahead and run away, I don't think its possible for anyone to think any less of you. :aok
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Originally posted by SuperDud
I know if some punk was calling me out, I'd definatly put him in his place, I guess you just have a kind heart huh?
I'm punk and I'm calling you out, supersuck.
ROE: we'll bail on runway and use 0.45. Loser gets to smack Autopilot and cut off his oxygen supply, winner gets to ridicule both.
PS
I just got PM from Autopilot. He forfeits due to the size of DA map. Appereantly there's no room to perform 'extension' manouver.
Oh well...
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you sure backed out quick
Did you know that i was typing all that on purpose just to get a rise out of you?I forgot your still kinda new,we call that trolling round deeze partz.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by storch
funny, I didn't know you were literate. Well back to current topic. I recall you being the easiest of the safety squad members to kill. Your deficit to me is what 8-10 fold? Here's some disquieting news for you. when I look up "sucks" in "The New Lexicon Webster's Dictonary of the English Language" the only entry is your photograph. you should write or send smoke signals or something and ask them to up date the photo. It was evidently taken when you were much younger. apparently you have been sucking since your youth.
Storch, I enjoy your retorts normally, but this one I found to be lame and below my expectations that I've set for you.
Why you hate me so much? I like you...
You remember how excited I was when I saw that picture of you naked holding that bowl of jello. :)
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that's what makes horse races interesting I suppose. I liked that one very much myself and had great joy thinking of that mars01 guy being kicked into the bosom of his war god by the likes of l'il ol' me while he was in the midst of so many other blue velvet safety miscreants. the icing is his remark that "those were cherry picks and who the hell cares to count". hey mars01 change ur handle to venus02 because you are about as warlike as a menstruating richard simmons.
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
Did you know that i was typing all that on purpose just to get a rise out of you?I forgot your still kinda new,we call that trolling round deeze partz.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
Did you know that i was typing all that on purpose just to get you to look like a fool. You see, normally when you "troll" you make the other person look dumb... not yourself. When everyone is laughing at you, you are no longer the troll, you are the joke. Just a free tip for you:aok
I think Howi nailed it. For some reason you thought we'd all be impressed with all the talk. But when we called you on it, you realized you'd be smacked around and then changed it to a "trolling thread". Keep back pedaling, maybe the next excuse will be a good one.
Oh and I've got film of your awesome 1,2,3 combo you stated earlier. It's hilarious to watch you pull this L33T manuever and the guy you try to pull it on matches you step for step with ease.
And I guess you have troubles reading as to me being new so here it is once again:
Originally posted by SuperDud
BTW who's to say I haven't been playing for 5 years also? Just because SuperDud's only been around a little over a year doesn't mean I haven't;)
Is it getting through yet? Who's to say I haven't been around since AW, then WB and finally here?
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Who's to say I haven't been around since AW, then WB and finally here?
I remember when you and the other Megadweeb was up in the TA talkin bout "What an immelman?" "What's that buzzing noise?"
Now your just makin stuff up Puddzie
Really does anyone that responds too this thread understand that i really don't care what you type.I never will care what you type.I just like firing up a fat arse Joint and reading the rantz you people go through on here,some of ya even come on here and write books about how your right and the other guy is wrong,and trust me it's way better to read all this High oh yea.
this BBs reminds me of the time i was held in jail overnight over some speeding tickets,there was like 20 other's in there i knew a couple of them but anyway they asked me what they was holding me for, i say speeding tickets,ALL 20 of them instantly was a lawyer tellin me how i was cool not too worry as if they had passed a BAR exam.That is what this game reminds me of so much i'm tellin ya,1/2 the PEOPLE in the GAME and BBs are all of the sudden Aeronautical Engineer's.Just really crax me up iz all.
Keep up the good work fella'z i need more free entertainment.:aok
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
I remember when you and the other Megadweeb was up in the TA talkin bout "What an immelman?" "What's that buzzing noise?"
Now your just makin stuff up Puddzie
And you know that wasn't me making fun of you even back then how? Maybe I was bringing a friend into a game I've played for many years. Your advice was aweful and Inyo and myself would laugh so hard listening to you go on and on about how to fly horribly, I still got the film and it's great. I asked you that because what you think is an immel is going 3K straight up and then rolling over and diving. Even back then I was making fun of you LMAO!#!# You have been fun to talk to 1hunglo errr i mean ted errrr i mean whoever you are now but I'm done. Everytime I bring up a valid point you skirt around it, say something dumb and then call me a name. You sure do have this trolling thing down:rolleyes: And seeing how many times youve been PNG you might not want to use the word you used in my above quote. Many men and women don't like it, even if it is misspelled. Yes that is misspelled just so you know. With your seeming lack of education you might think thats how it's spelled.
Originally posted by AutoPilot
Really does anyone that responds too this thread understand that i really don't care what you type.I never will care what you type.I just like firing up a fat arse Joint and reading the rantz you people go through on here,some of ya even come on here and write books about how your right and the other guy is wrong,and trust me it's way better to read all this High oh yea.
this BBs reminds me of the time i was held in jail overnight over some speeding tickets,there was like 20 other's in there i knew a couple of them but anyway they asked me what they was holding me for, i say speeding tickets,ALL 20 of them instantly was a lawyer tellin me how i was cool not too worry as if they had passed a BAR exam.That is what this game reminds me of so much i'm tellin ya,1/2 the PEOPLE in the GAME and BBs are all of the sudden Aeronautical Engineer's.Just really crax me up iz all.
Smoking and going to jail, yeah you sound like a winner lol. What YOU don't understand is all of us are making fun of you. You are the free entertainment. So far we've learned you have no clue on how to play this game, no clue who I am also we've learned you can't spell, have been in jail and smoke a lot. WTG!
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:huh
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I've been in jail (never charged) and used to smoke a lot... but I actually am teh winnar. Jail + weed doesn't = retard like autopilot. Just to clarify :cool:
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Originally posted by wetrat
I've been in jail (never charged) and used to smoke a lot... but I actually am teh winnar. Jail + weed doesn't = retard like autopilot. Just to clarify :cool:
I stand corrected wetrat lolol. Maybe he was also dropped on his head???
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LOL Autopilot backed out of the challenge, I think we can just mark it official. Laugh, smoke, go to jail... doesn't matter anymore cus you RAN AWAY.
PWN!
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If Eric Hartman had our neudered 109's he wouldn't have had many kills lol I just got done reading a book about eric hartman, and most of his kills came from shooting C47's in the begininng of the war,
Couple discrepancies in that statement.
1) Hartmann wasnt even a combat pilot in the beginning of the war. His first kill came on Dec 5th '42 and was an Il-2 and was his 19th sortie. (according to his first log book) This was more than a year after Germany invaded the Soviet Union. Invasion started on June 22nd 1941. So none of Hartmann's kills came during the first few days of that invasion when so many Soviet planes were destroyed on the ground.
2) According to his first log book which covers his first 150 kills (2nd log book was taken from him by the Soviets and has never been seen again by the West):
Il-2: 6 kills
MiG-1: 1 kill
Lagg- 3: 7 kills
Boston: 1 kill
U-2: 2 kills
I-16: 1 kill
Airacobra: 22 kills
R-5: 1 kill
La-5: 86 kills
Yak-7: 8 kills
Yak-1: 8 kills
Pe-2: 5 kills
La-7: 2 kills
As we can see from his first log book the vast majority of his kills were fighter type aircraft. We will probably never know the exact numbers/types of kills on his last 202 kills unless his 2nd log book shows up.
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Back in August, AutoPilot, aka Ted Stryker, aka 1hunglo was upset when Silat was selected to the Trainer's Corps and he was passed over. TC asked for an opinion on adding Silat and to a man, every trainer agreed that Silat was an outstanding choice, a huge asset to the group. AutoPilot was unhappy and you can read his comments here. (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=157939)
This thread only confirms TC's judgement that AutoPilot, aka Ted Stryker, aka 1hunglo was unsuited for the position. Being a good Trainer is all about attitude, being patient, and being willing to donate your time helping others learn enough to enjoy the game and maybe even get good at it. It's not about self and it's not about status and it's surely not about slapping around noobs for ego gratification. It's about being a responsible representative of both HTC and the community of players. Trainers are often the first person(s) a new player encounters and the attitude displayed by the Trainers will make a lasting impression on a new player, both for good or for bad. I for one am damn glad that this character was passed over as his attitude is unacceptable as a subscriber, much less someone who will influence noobs. I'm very much disappointed by this sorry display of bad form.
My regards,
Widewing
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that's what makes horse races interesting I suppose. I liked that one very much myself and had great joy thinking of that mars01 guy being kicked into the bosom of his war god by the likes of l'il ol' me while he was in the midst of so many other blue velvet safety miscreants. the icing is his remark that "those were cherry picks and who the hell cares to count". hey mars01 change ur handle to venus02 because you are about as warlike as a menstruating richard simmons.
The remark about who cares to count as in, why would I care how many times I killed a skilless dweeb like you. You aren't even good enough that killing you means anything to me. Killing you is nothing more than killiing any other newb no skill dweeb.
I guess you probably went to bed jerking it thinking you had some skillz cause your count was up LOLH. Any noob can cherry pick.
I respected the rest of your squad for fighting it out like men co alt with us. You on the other hand had to climb every time rather than help your squaddies and rely on your skill you used your alt which didn't even help you that much LOLH.
I have a great film of that night, you blazing in from behind me, you overshooting with your skill and me rolling in behind you and killing your arse as you try to climb away. LOLH yeah you got mad skills. I'll dig it up for you and the rest of the BBs. It'll be good for a laugh at you.
Any time that night where it was me against you, and even when you had the alt advantage, I killed you.
Anytime you killed me I was saddled up with two or more of your squaddies and you wer number 3 or 4 coming in with the cherry. You may think what you do takes some skill, but everyone who has run into you knows better.
Hell I could care less what you write here, if anyone has any questions about me PM me or shoot me a message in the MA, I'll be more than happy to go the DA.
So storchy, name the date and time and I'll come slaugther you, if you have the balls to back up the mouth... I won't hold my breath tho since I already know you are all talk and no walk. I've seen you fly it aint pretty. :aok
BTW you can't even troll well.:rolleyes: :rofl
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Storch has BK on the brain.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Hmmm...
How about open new thread Autopilot vs BK`s???
I would like to see comments about 109`s in AH much more than your "personal conversation" which has nothing to do with 109`s:)
puujiiko o
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Originally posted by -pjk--
Hmmm...
How about open new thread Autopilot vs BK`s???
I would like to see comments about 109`s in AH much more than your "personal conversation" which has nothing to do with 109`s:)
puujiiko o
The 109 horse has been beaten to death.. it's just a bag of mush by now. Autopilot isn't quite there yet... he's just in intensive care right now.
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I like cheese. do you like cheese too?
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Originally posted by Glasses
I like cheese. do you like cheese too?
I like pork!
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Originally posted by Widewing
Back in August, AutoPilot, aka Ted Stryker, aka 1hunglo was upset when Silat was selected to the Trainer's Corps and he was passed over. TC asked for an opinion on adding Silat and to a man, every trainer agreed that Silat was an outstanding choice, a huge asset to the group. AutoPilot was unhappy and you can read his comments here. (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=157939)
This thread only confirms TC's judgement that AutoPilot, aka Ted Stryker, aka 1hunglo was unsuited for the position. Being a good Trainer is all about attitude, being patient, and being willing to donate your time helping others learn enough to enjoy the game and maybe even get good at it. It's not about self and it's not about status and it's surely not about slapping around noobs for ego gratification. It's about being a responsible representative of both HTC and the community of players. Trainers are often the first person(s) a new player encounters and the attitude displayed by the Trainers will make a lasting impression on a new player, both for good or for bad. I for one am damn glad that this character was passed over as his attitude is unacceptable as a subscriber, much less someone who will influence noobs. I'm very much disappointed by this sorry display of bad form.
My regards,
Widewing
wow that is funny stuff.
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lol, pwn.
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Originally posted by Widewing
Back in August, AutoPilot, aka Ted Stryker, aka 1hunglo was upset when Silat was selected to the Trainer's Corps and he was passed over. TC asked for an opinion on adding Silat and to a man, every trainer agreed that Silat was an outstanding choice, a huge asset to the group. AutoPilot was unhappy and you can read his comments here. (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=157939)
This thread only confirms TC's judgement that AutoPilot, aka Ted Stryker, aka 1hunglo was unsuited for the position. Being a good Trainer is all about attitude, being patient, and being willing to donate your time helping others learn enough to enjoy the game and maybe even get good at it. It's not about self and it's not about status and it's surely not about slapping around noobs for ego gratification. It's about being a responsible representative of both HTC and the community of players. Trainers are often the first person(s) a new player encounters and the attitude displayed by the Trainers will make a lasting impression on a new player, both for good or for bad. I for one am damn glad that this character was passed over as his attitude is unacceptable as a subscriber, much less someone who will influence noobs. I'm very much disappointed by this sorry display of bad form.
My regards,
Widewing
Speaks volumes for me, and not that surprising =)