Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Gunslinger on January 24, 2006, 06:04:26 PM
-
When is this situation at the border going to get past "playing the race card" and "pandering for votes" to serious legitimate action?
http://www.dailybulletin.com/news/ci_3430815
Armed standoff along U.S. border
By Sara A. Carter and Kenneth Todd Ruiz, Staff Writers
Inland Valley Daily Bulletin
Mexican soldiers and civilian smugglers had an armed standoff with nearly 30 U.S. law enforcement officials on the Rio Grande in Texas Monday afternoon, according to Texas police and the FBI.
Mexican military Humvees were towing what appeared to be thousands of pounds of marijuana across the border into the United States, said Chief Deputy Mike Doyal, of the Hudspeth County Sheriff's Department.
Mexican Army troops had several mounted machine guns on the ground more than 200 yards inside the U.S. border -- near Neely's Crossing, about 50 miles east of El Paso -- when Border Patrol agents called for backup. Hudspeth County deputies and Texas Highway patrol officers arrived shortly afterward, Doyal said.
"It's been so bred into everyone not to start an international incident with Mexico that it's been going on for years," Doyal said. "When you're up against mounted machine guns, what can you do? Who wants to pull the trigger first? Certainly not us."
An FBI spokeswoman confirmed the incident happened at 2:15 p.m. Pacific Time.
"Bad guys in three vehicles ended up on the border," said Andrea Simmons, a spokeswoman with the FBI's El Paso office. "People with Humvees, who appeared to be with the Mexican Army, were involved with the three vehicles in getting them back across."
Simmons said the FBI was not involved and referred inquiries to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
ICE did not return calls seeking comment.
Doyal said deputies captured one vehicle in the incident, a Cadillac Escalade reportedly stolen from El Paso, and found 1,477 pounds of marijuana inside. The Mexican soldiers set fire to one of the Humvees stuck in the river, he said.
Doyal's deputies faced a similar incident on Nov. 17, when agents from the Fort Hancock border patrol station in Texas called the sheriff's department for backup after confronting more than six fully armed men dressed in Mexican military uniforms. The men -- who were carrying machine guns and driving military vehicles -- were trying to bring more than three tons of marijuana across the Rio Grande, Doyal said.
Doyal said such incidents are common at Neely's Crossing, which is near Fort Hancock, Texas, and across from the Mexican state of Chihuahua.
"It happens quite often here," he said.
Deputies and border patrol agents are not equipped for combat, he added.
"Our government has to do something," he said. "It's not the immigrants coming over for jobs we're worried about. It's the smugglers, Mexican military and the national threat to our borders that we're worried about."
Citing a Jan. 15 story in the Daily Bulletin, Reps. David Dreier, R-Glendora, and Duncan Hunter, R-San Diego, last week asked the House Judiciary Committee, Department of Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, the House Homeland Security Committee and the House International Relations Committee to investigate the incursions. The story focused on a Department of Homeland Security document reporting 216 incursions by Mexican soldiers during the past 10 years and a map with the seal of the president's Office of National Drug Control Policy, both of which were given to the newspaper.
Requests by Dreier, chairman of the House Rules Committee, and Hunter were made in jointly signed letters.
On Wednesday, Chertoff played down the reports of border incursions by the Mexican military. He suggested many of the incursions could have been mistakes, blaming bad navigation by military personnel or attributing the incursions to criminals dressed in military garb.
Mexican officials last week denied any incursions made by their military.
But border agents interviewed over the past year have discussed confrontations those they believe to be Mexican military personnel.
"We're sitting ducks," said a border agent speaking on condition of anonymity. "The government has our hands tied."
Also here:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,182650,00.html
(http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/incursion.jpg)
Here's a video http://bareknucklepolitics.com/?p=689
Seriously! When are we going to get some politicians to grow some testicular fortituded and deal with this issue? There's nothing racist about creating secure borders.
Politically speaking if the democrats want to sweep the next election this is one issue that could help galvonize the center. It would mean they'd have to quit pandering to hispanic groups (just like the republicans do now) who play the race card in order for nothing to get done.
This is beyond illegal workers, this is a flat out invasion by a foreign military (small in scale now) supporting drug runners and murderous thugs.
-
Originally posted by Gunslinger
this is a flat out invasion by a foreign military
next time use your nukes! ;)
-
What worries me is that if juan valdez and his frito bandito's can just walze into the USA then whats stopping the haji's?
-
Originally posted by fartwinkle
What worries me is that if juan valdez and his frito bandito's can just walze into the USA then whats stopping the haji's?
Yup. The government knows all about it. They listen to their phone calls.
And, do nothing.
Oh yes indeedy, we're soooo much safer.
Wonder when AQ's gonna hire the mexican army to bring in a 1400 pound load of anthrax?
-
Put a electric fence up that will teach them
(http://www.nationalist.org/images/cartoons/2004/amnesty.jpeg)
-
Originally posted by RAIDER14
Put a electric fence up that will teach them
wire cutters?
nothing says deterrence like heads on pikes.
have the SF ambush a few mexican patrols, with minimal training and equipment it would be like plinking rats.
-
We don't need a fence. We need armed patrols that will SHOOT.
Word'll get around.
Put up a fence and still not shoot.. pointless. They'll dig under, climb over or cut through it.
-
Start arming our customs patrols with ATR's. Plus it wouldnt hurt to stick some M1's here and there
-
Originally posted by Meatwad
Start arming our customs patrols with ATR's. Plus it wouldnt hurt to stick some M1's here and there
Fight Fire with fire. Isn't this our military's main JOB? Defending our borders. If the mexican military is being bought off by smuglers and escorting them accross the border there needs to be a strong presence on the border.
THem suckers cross the border call in som apachees/cobras to take them out.
This isn't about somone in malibu hiring Juan to be their gardener or wal-mart's contract cleaners.
I see these people as a direct threat, even more so now that they are hiring military to help them out. Worse is where's the uproar about this? We sell Mexico Humvees with mountd Machine guns to escort drug runners accross our borders?
-
I've said it before and I'll say it again.
I am 100% for invading Mexico, smashing that little gnat with a sledgehammer and turning ol'Mexico into our 51st state
It would cost us financially at first yes. But the long time benifits would far outweigh any initial financial loss.
It would be the next great tourist and retirement state.
Course Texas probably wouldnt like it because it would then become the countries 3rd largest state instead of only the second:p
-
Mine the border, some claymores here and there, pungee pits, etc etc.
-
If their running drugs then they will keep doing it until you kill them, start killing them and they might get the, a few combat troops should do the trick don't you think?
-
Hey heres a partial solution.
Flood the rio grande with agent orange:aok
-
Fly helicopters with food stamps hanging from them they will most likely follow the helicopter
-
It's going to take another 911 before politicians take the border seriously. Then, the border will be guarded and people will be shot if they try to get across illegally.
-
Originally posted by RAIDER14
Fly helicopters with food stamps hanging from them they will most likely follow the helicopter
:rofl :rofl Thats too funny
-
It's a diversion for the Canadians.
-
american politicians will do nothing to upset the hispanic voters, but when the americans start shooting people on the border then the govt will get excited and arrest the americans for violating the mexicans civil rights.
something has happened already, forget whole story , but some rancher lost his farm and went to jail for stopping some illegals on his land, the ACLU sued him.
-
Originally posted by john9001
american politicians will do nothing to upset the hispanic voters, but when the americans start shooting people on the border then the govt will get excited and arrest the americans for violating the mexicans civil rights.
something has happened already, forget whole story , but some rancher lost his farm and went to jail for stopping some illegals on his land, the ACLU sued him.
John that's were we the voters need to step in. One day our country may in fact be a majority Mexican country but it's not there yet. The Metcha's of the world don't have the power to give California and Texas back to Mexico YET. Unless the voters of America take action know I fear it may soon be too late.
I'm thrilled that some of you think a foreign military presence on American soil is just so funny.
-
You should see what they are smuggling in from Oregon! In broad daylight the nerve of them!
-
the government isnt doing anything about it, and if a citizen happens to catch a couple members of the mexican army on our side of the border, off on their own and shoots them down like dogs, they will more then likely go to jail.
:noid
-
Hmm, I see mexicans with guns, I hear americans, and clearly I see a fence in between them... Just what is that video proof of?
Now I'm all for some border drama in the south, but this video is rather inconclusive.
-
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Hey heres a partial solution.
Flood the rio grande with agent orange:aok
I like your thinking. A+ and promotion to antifoliage minister.
-
Originally posted by nirvana
I like your thinking. A+ and promotion to antifoliage minister.
well it would kill the landscaping industry if all the workers have the plant touch of death.
-
Well well....this certainly deserves a closer look.
Is the assumption here that the mexican militry is actively smuggling weed into the lower 48?
-
Originally posted by Pooh21
well it would kill the landscaping industry if all the workers have the plant touch of death.
get some exercise and do your own landscaping.
;)
-
the landlord won't let me turn the shrubbery into toperiary hentai tentacle monsters.
-
Get something that kills the weed as it comes over the boarder...
-
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
I've said it before and I'll say it again.
I am 100% for invading Mexico, smashing that little gnat with a sledgehammer and turning ol'Mexico into our 51st state
It would cost us financially at first yes. But the long time benifits would far outweigh any initial financial loss.
It would be the next great tourist and retirement state.
Course Texas probably wouldnt like it because it would then become the countries 3rd largest state instead of only the second:p
Perfect solution.
Damn, this is why Bush is a horrid president. Well this and some other junk, but still, it is his job to make sure our borders are secure.
-
The border ought to resemble the nice DMZ playground we have between North and South Korea.
Enough is enough.
-
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
I've said it before and I'll say it again.
I am 100% for invading Mexico, smashing that little gnat with a sledgehammer and turning ol'Mexico into our 51st state
It would cost us financially at first yes. But the long time benifits would far outweigh any initial financial loss.
It would be the next great tourist and retirement state.
Course Texas probably wouldnt like it because it would then become the countries 3rd largest state instead of only the second:p
Actually, I think Kinky Freidman is already planning an invasion after the Peoples Rupublic Army of Texas army gets formed under the leadership of General Ted Nugent. After we claim Mexico as a part of Texas, we'll seceed from the USA.
-
I like Americans of mexican decent for the most part..
For the most part I don't like illegal alien criminals.
lazs
-
On Wednesday, Chertoff played down the reports of border incursions by the Mexican military. He suggested many of the incursions could have been mistakes, blaming bad navigation by military personnel or attributing the incursions to criminals dressed in military garb.
:rofl What a friggen moron. Maps must be at a premium. Sure............I`m sure that noone noticed that little thing called the Rio Grande when they crossed it. Bad navigation my white boody. :)
-
Originally posted by Waffle BAS
After we claim Mexico as a part of Texas, we'll seceed from the USA.
We don`t have to Waff, we were never legaly in. :)
-
MEXICO... the " U.S.A.'s eternal cockroach "........
-
Mexico becomes the 51st state, we can finally get our factories and jobs back that went there years ago
-
Originally posted by RAIDER14
Put a electric fence up that will teach them
Well, there was a great story about some new-rich guy building a cottage in some village near Moscow.
Locals were stealing construction materials, fence and guards didn't help: old village houses all around had new windows, brick constructions etc. Nothing helped.
Then he decided to make an electric fence. Theft stopped.
But the whole village got electric heating for free in winter, they got 24/7 street illumination and electrically-heated greenhouses. The rich guy's electricity bill was several times more then the price of stolen materials.
-
Mexican military Humvees were towing what appeared to be thousands of pounds of marijuana across the border into the United States
what`s the problem here?
-
Originally posted by Jackal1
:rofl What a friggen moron. Maps must be at a premium. Sure............I`m sure that noone noticed that little thing called the Rio Grande when they crossed it. Bad navigation my white boody. :)
You mean like these maps Jackal?
MEXICO CITY (Jan. 25) - A Mexican government commission said Tuesday it will distribute at least 70,000 maps showing highways, rescue beacons and water tanks in the Arizona desert to curb the death toll among illegal border crossers.
The National Human Rights Commission, a government-funded agency with independent powers, denied the maps - similar to a comic-style guide booklet Mexico distributed last year - would encourage illegal immigration.
Officials said the maps would help guide those in trouble find rescue beacons and areas with cell phone reception. The maps will also show the distance a person can walk in the desert in a single day.
"We are not trying in any way to encourage or promote migration," said Mauricio Farah, one of the commission's national inspectors. "The only thing we are trying to do is warn them of the risks they face and where to get water, so they don't die."
Russ Knocke, a spokesman for the U.S. Homeland Security Department, questioned whether the maps would keep those crossing the border safer.
"It is not helpful for anyone, no matter how well intended they might be, to produce road maps that lead aliens into the desolate and dangerous areas along the border, and potentially invite criminal activity, human exploitation and personal risk," he said.
And some advocates of greater immigration control were irritated by the map announcement.
"What's next? Are they going to buy them bus tickets to Chicago?" said Mark Krikorian, executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies, a Washington-based think tank. "It's clearly a bad thing for Mexico to be encouraging illegal immigration."
The comic booklet for migrants was distributed by the government in early 2005 and warned of the perils of crossing illegally into the United States, while offering tips to stay safe.
The booklet, of which about 1.5 million were printed, enraged some advocates of stricter immigration policies in the United States who argue that it encouraged illegal migration.
Farah said his commission was simply trying to prevent deaths and estimated that around 500 Mexicans died trying to cross the border in 2005. Many die in the desert, where summer temperatures soar above 100 degrees, and many drown while attempting to cross the Rio Grande river.
The commission plans to hang the poster-size maps in March in places where migrants will see them, such as migrant-aid groups, the commission's offices and in Mexican border towns.
They were designed by the Tucson, Ariz.-based rights group Humane Borders, which operates some of the desert water stations. The group previously distributed about 100 posters in the Mexican border town of Sasabe.
The Rev. Robin Hoover, president of Humane Borders, said maps are needed in southern Mexico so migrants can weigh the risks before leaving home.
Some of the posters have warnings, such as "Don't go. There isn't enough water," but officials conceded many migrants were unlikely to heed the advice.
Knocke said the United States had increased personnel and surveillance along the border to discourage illegal crossings and immigrant smugglers.
"Our message should be clear: we are securing our borders and we're dramatically increasing the likelihood of apprehensions," he said.
Farah said migration "is a human right" and that "the United States should be grateful" the commission is doing something to curb the death toll, because "hundreds of thousands of Mexicans help maintain their economy."
Mexicans working in the United States are a huge source of revenue for Mexico, sending home more than $16 billion in remittances in 2004, Mexico's second largest source of foreign currency after oil exports according to the country's central bank.
Associated Press writer Lara Jakes Jordan in Washington contributed to this report.
01/24/06 18:24 EST
Wait. "Farah said migration "is a human right" and that "the United States should be grateful" the commission is doing something to curb the death toll, because "hundreds of thousands of Mexicans help maintain their economy."
SINCE WHEN DO LEECHES HELP KEEP BLOOD IN YOUR BODY?? THEY SEND 16 BILLION DOLLARS BACK TO THEIR FAMILIES IN MEXICO EVERY YEAR SO
THEY CAN TRY TO CROSS THE BORDER AND TAKE MORE JOBS FROM US. Maintain our economy? Please, help us maintain it some more. Just start robbing the banks. Its faster.
-
"We are not trying in any way to encourage or promote migration," said Mauricio Farah
so it is called "migration" now? is he insuating mexicans are not human, but some instinctive animal like a bird?
-
Again I think this is somewhat linked but seperate at the same time from the immigration issue. These drugs are a problem by themselves. When Mexican mercenaries get invovled it escelates ten fold.
I did find it humerous with a tint if pride when the article said the drug runners were fended off by two Texas state troopers.
-
We are allowed to shoot trespassers on our property, why can we not shoot trespassers on our land paid for by our tax dollars?
-SW
-
Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
We are allowed to shoot trespessers on our property, why can we not shoot trespessers on our land paid for by our tax dollars?
-SW
That's a good question! Why not beef up the border patrol with volunteer citizens brigade and such? Kinda like volunteer fire fighters. Put out the call And I'd bet you'd get a half million applications. Kind of like the minute men but deputized to act instead of call.
-
Originally posted by Gunslinger
That's a good question! Why not beef up the border patrol with volunteer citizens brigade and such? Kinda like volunteer fire fighters. Put out the call And I'd bet you'd get a half million applications. Kind of like the minute men but deputized to act instead of call.
It's been done...
Arizona Border Watch (http://www.azborderwatch.blogspot.com/)
Careful.. the pics are not suitable for those with a weak stomach.
-
I'm all for shooting illegal aliens as they cross.
The ACLU would never have it, though.
-
Originally posted by texace
I'm all for shooting illegal aliens as they cross.
The ACLU would never have it, though.
Well Im all for giving the ACLU illegal alien status.
then w can shoot them too:aok
-
Originally posted by Hangtime
It's been done...
Arizona Border Watch (http://www.azborderwatch.blogspot.com/)
Careful.. the pics are not suitable for those with a weak stomach.
Interesting pics.
Only problem I have with stuff like that is is dooesnt happen often enough.
Shows what can happen if you try to come in illegally.
Had he tried to come in legally he today might just be healthy legal immigrant happily operating his leafblower somewhere
-
A Mexican government commission said Tuesday it will distribute at least 70,000 maps showing highways, rescue beacons and water tanks in the Arizona desert to curb the death toll among illegal border crossers.
So... did it occur to anybody else to print up just as many fake maps and have them distributed? Not that I'm advocating killing people... just running them in endless circles...
-
Originally posted by indy007
So... did it occur to anybody else to print up just as many fake maps and have them distributed? Not that I'm advocating killing people... just running them in endless circles...
while their at it they could use thos maps to find the water tanks, and shoot holes into em (not illegal to shoot watertanksis it? orrrr
empty em and refill them with seawater.
I advocate killing em.
Come in legally or die
-
Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
We are allowed to shoot trespassers on our property, why can we not shoot trespassers on our land paid for by our tax dollars?
-SW
Where EVER did you get the idea that it is legal to shoot a trespasser? The fact is, it is absolutely ILLEGAL to shoot a mere trespasser, unless you are reasonably in fear of death or grievous bodily harm to you or a person near you.
By the way, I agree that we need to secure the border, but please don't spread this kind of crap around. Some poor schmuck might believe it's ok to shoot somebody in his farmyard, get arrested and convicted of murder due to this kind of irresponsible talk.
-
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
while their at it they could use thos maps to find the water tanks, and shoot holes into em (not illegal to shoot watertanksis it? orrrr
empty em and refill them with seawater.
I advocate killing em.
Come in legally or die
Not bad... way cheaper too. A couple boxes of .308 round, a slew of plastic drums, or even a crate full of laxatives. vs 100,000+ maps...
-
Originally posted by Gunslinger
I did find it humerous with a tint if pride when the article said the drug runners were fended off by two Texas state troopers.
i see youve never had a texas dps pull his gun on you. to this day i havent figured out how he got that 105mm recoiless rifle in that little holster
-
Originally posted by Waffle BAS
Actually, I think Kinky Freidman is already planning an invasion after the Peoples Rupublic Army of Texas army gets formed under the leadership of General Ted Nugent. After we claim Mexico as a part of Texas, we'll seceed from the USA.
Im in.
As a now minority in this state of Texico i want to know a few things 1st though.....
1. Is this a american money thing? Or am I gonna get paid in peso's?
2. Can I get welfare being a minority? reparations of any sort?
3. Can I sue the government for being unduely mentally strained over the fact that I am a minority now?
4. Will Tex-Mex food still be legal?
And last but not least can we PLEASE do something about all these friggin convoys of 85 Chevy luv trucks being towed back to Mexico in convoys of like 15 on I-35?
-
Originally posted by rshubert
Where EVER did you get the idea that it is legal to shoot a trespasser? The fact is, it is absolutely ILLEGAL to shoot a mere trespasser, unless you are reasonably in fear of death or grievous bodily harm to you or a person near you.
By the way, I agree that we need to secure the border, but please don't spread this kind of crap around. Some poor schmuck might believe it's ok to shoot somebody in his farmyard, get arrested and convicted of murder due to this kind of irresponsible talk.
If you kill them, there's no way to determine that they weren't intending to do bodily harm.
-SW
-
Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
If you kill them, there's no way to determine that they weren't intending to do bodily harm.
-SW
I've had this conversation before here. In Texas it is perfectly legal to shoot somone on your property at night who is trespassing.
-
Originally posted by Gunslinger
I've had this conversation before here. In Texas it is perfectly legal to shoot somone on your property at night who is trespassing.
Damn...I thought it was perfectly legal in Texas to shoot anyone who lived longer than 2 years in a Blue State.
-
where the hell do I apply for a Texas Visa?
-
Originally posted by rshubert
Where EVER did you get the idea that it is legal to shoot a trespasser? The fact is, it is absolutely ILLEGAL to shoot a mere trespasser, unless you are reasonably in fear of death or grievous bodily harm to you or a person near you.
By the way, I agree that we need to secure the border, but please don't spread this kind of crap around. Some poor schmuck might believe it's ok to shoot somebody in his farmyard, get arrested and convicted of murder due to this kind of irresponsible talk.
So what is the law on armed foriegn soldiers on American Soil?
-
Originally posted by Hangtime
where the hell do I apply for a Texas Visa?
Ask Vicente:D
-
Originally posted by Hangtime
where the hell do I apply for a Texas Visa?
Come on over. I`ll put my "Aight" stamp on it. :)
-
See Rule #4, #5
-
Originally posted by NUKE
It's going to take another 911 before politicians take the border seriously. Then, the border will be guarded and people will be shot if they try to get across illegally.
I have to agree with that NUKE. If people can come across the border from Mexico, carrying drugs who's to say a terrorist cant do it, carrying a bomb?
-
culero lays done a lethal dose of SMACK!
S m Ac K!
wtg culero :lol
-
I dont mind Mexican folks commin over making an honest livin as long as they do it legaly. I also dont have a problem with Mexican folks commin over making contributions to the communities they live in by becomming part of the community and being involved in the political end of running a community.
I do however have a problem with Mexicans commin over illeagaly, taking advantage of the healthcare system we have, having babies and getting the free "in" to stayin on my buck.
I also have issues with mandatory teaching of Spanish in schools. I wont go into detail, cause it will take to long. Bottom line to me is that in Texas and the rest of America, American English is the common language. When in Rome do as the Romans do. I do not feel that my children or myself should have to learn a foreign language to cater to folks that want to make Texas their new home. They can learn American English just like everyone else.
-
Originally posted by culero
See Rule #4, #5
Believe me when I say...........
Legal=No prblem
Illegal=BIG problem
And that goes for ANYONE. I don't give a rip where your from. Canada , Mexico , England , Russia , France. Makes me NO friggin difference where people come from to live in the U.S. if it is done LEGALLY.
I'm sick of paying for Julio and his band of banditos coming to this state making a living and not paying a DAMN thing. Send it home. Get sent back by the INS only to come back 2 weeks later.
SCREW EM. They get a free pass on everything this state and country has to offer and lots of people just look over it. No big deal. "Oh they are here to help there families" I hear all that bleeding heart crap.
Fox is out to do whatever the frik he wants to and our government and wussy *** legal system with its ACLU whinning B.S. is WEARING ME OUT !!!
If they are bringing drugs here with armored vehicles then blast them across the River. I don't give a frik.
If some "Whitey" is bringing in illegals then BLAST HIS SORRY *** TO.
It's high time people in this country stop trying to say the "Politically" correct thing so they dont hurt someones feelings. This illegal alien problem is out of control. It's a danger. Anyone who thinks its not only needs to look to not so long ago when things were crumbling in N.Y. City.
Culero ,
I get the feeling you may be Mexican AMERICAN. No offense to Mexican Americans was meant. AMERICANS being the key there. Legal Immigrants. People who went thru the pain to get here and do things RIGHT. Mexican , Afican American , whatever , come here legally , and we are good to go.
-
Nah, Redtop, I'm a gringo named Myers with nothing but names like Steele, Callis, etc in my geneaology - I'm a bastard mix of UK and Irish blood. My wife's a Siciian WOP. I ain't got that kinda dog in this fight.
And, you might be surprised to know you and I happen to be on pretty much the same page. You were one of the very few folks making *some* sense in this thread, my pot-shot wasn't aimed at you.
I've just lived on the border almost all my life, in a community that's mostly Mexican in its roots. I'm as much against illegal activity as anyone here, and just as willing to take strong action against it. I just don't loathe an entire culture because it has its share of bad apples (yanno, just like any other culture does). These are people I know, many of whom I admire. I take insults to friends personally.
Thing is, although I'm OK with hitting smugglers hard, especially armed ones, IMO its our fault they exist. Eliminate their business model by ending the drug prohibition and we can put 'em out of business - remember the alocohol bootlegging industry? Black markets exist to supply illegal demand, and can't without it.
I've met a lot of "wetbacks" in my time, and most of 'em would make fine neighbors and community members, completely willing to work and pay their fair share if given opportunity. That doesn't mean I want to condone illegal immigration, but I refuse to scorn these people. The solution is a political problem, not a personal one. Dehumanizing people because they want to earn a living is ignorant.
culero
-
:aok Culero
Well Said
-
It's not a 'political' problem. It's OUR problem.
Tossing the problem to a corrupt theiving government to solve is no solution.
Tell me.. how do you stop looting when the 'law' can't?
-
Originally posted by Hangtime
Tell me.. how do you stop looting when the 'law' can't?
Shoot first and ask questions later. Its obvious that if there is looting the talk part is over with.
-
Originally posted by Hangtime
It's not a 'political' problem. It's OUR problem.
Tossing the problem to a corrupt theiving government to solve is no solution.
Tell me.. how do you stop looting when the 'law' can't?
I agree its our problem, its just political in nature.
As to how to stop looting, if you live in Texas this is the applicable law:
§ 9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY. (a) A person
in lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is
justified in using force against another when and to the degree the
actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to
prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful
interference with the property.
(b) A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible,
movable property by another is justified in using force against the
other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force
is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the
property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit
after the dispossession and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the other had no
claim of right when he dispossessed the actor; or
(2) the other accomplished the dispossession by using
force, threat, or fraud against the actor.
Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1,
1994.
§ 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the
other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or
recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to
protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.
Clear enough?
culero
-
Sounds like it's time to deliver bullets to the illegal ailen tresspassers intent upon looting our jobs, our economy and our healthcare system.
-
See Rule #5
-
Hang,
We don't play here in Texas.......:)
-
See Rule #4
-
Deleted.
Rules #4 & 7.
-
culero... the average wetback is not a bad guy.... just a criminal.
He is commiting a criminal act. My girlfriend is of mexican decent.. her family did it the right way and she doesn't have a lot of sympathy for wetbacks.
I see lots of mexicans that are here illegally and... they have been so long that.... heck... hardly seems fair that they should have to go back.
There are people who pulled armed robberies 20 years ago that are nice guys... hardly seems fair that they should go to jail once caught.
Maybe we should have a system of laws based on if you are a nice guy or not?
lazs
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Hmm, I see mexicans with guns, I hear americans, and clearly I see a fence in between them... Just what is that video proof of?
That rednecks are stupid.
-
are rednecks more stupid than say... wetbacks? colored people? Can you have a redneck who isn't a white guy?
lazs
-
I know a bunch of white, hispanic, african american, and asian rednecks.
Welcome to Texas.
-
Originally posted by lazs2
culero... the average wetback is not a bad guy.... just a criminal.
He is commiting a criminal act. My girlfriend is of mexican decent.. her family did it the right way and she doesn't have a lot of sympathy for wetbacks.
I see lots of mexicans that are here illegally and... they have been so long that.... heck... hardly seems fair that they should have to go back.
There are people who pulled armed robberies 20 years ago that are nice guys... hardly seems fair that they should go to jail once caught.
Maybe we should have a system of laws based on if you are a nice guy or not?
lazs
lazs perhaps you misunderstand me. Actually, I agree with everything you've said here. I just don't agree with others who seem to harbor some sick animus toward these folks. My view is that we should identify them and enforce applicable law, and also do a better job of interdicting the illegal entries. I just see no reason to loathe them since I understand and have compassion for their motivations.
culero
-
In my naive 16 year old mind, anyone who crosses the border illegally then starts to rob hard working tax payers because they want to live the American dream, are thieves and should be treated as such. People that "steal" jobs that supposedly no one wants to do anyway, people that are willing to kill resources. They are stealing yours, mine, and everyone else that pays texes money. I have no problem with anyone coming in legally that work hard and do the right things. The second you start hopping over here stealing healthcare, living off welfare, and tax money, you need to get the hell out. I don't care about race, creed, colour, religion etc.
One question I ask, who's the illegal alien, pilgrim?
-
Originally posted by culero
lazs perhaps you misunderstand me. Actually, I agree with everything you've said here. I just don't agree with others who seem to harbor some sick animus toward these folks. My view is that we should identify them and enforce applicable law, and also do a better job of interdicting the illegal entries. I just see no reason to loathe them since I understand and have compassion for their motivations.
culero
bzzzzrrrrrtt.
Wrong answer. They KNOW they are breaking the law crossing the border, yes? They KNOW they are putting LEGAL ailens outta work because they will work cheaper. They KNOW the score. And they are willfully breaking our laws.
Nope, sorry. Yer Apologistic Reasoning is just enabling more lawbreaking. That's a national border, they are violating it. We are at war, that should be a shooting offense; right off the bat.
-
Hang we're at war with terrorists not Mexico, so your reasoning is off base.
Again, as I replied to lazs, I support enforcing the law. The penalty for illegal immigration, however, doesn't include summary execution. Sorry to disappoint you.
I am not apologizing for anything. I'm trying to alleviate ignorance.
culero
-
Disagree. Sounds like your making excuses for them to break the law. Texas Law's pretty specific regarding shooting trespassers... and the president is envoking war powers acts to enable loss of LEGAL citizens due process guarantees under the constsitution. Is there any doubt that terrorists AND mexicans can penetrate the border?
Where in hell's the even-handed application of law here? You violate the border, yer invading US territory. *BANG*
End of story.
You don't want yer mexican pals to get shot? Tell 'em to get a damn visa and come in the 'front' door. Sneaking in thru the back door is trespassing, and is liable to get yer bellybutton shot in my neighborhood. Closing the border means CLOSE THE DAMN BORDER.
-
Originally posted by Gunslinger
Fight Fire with fire. Isn't this our military's main JOB? Defending our borders. If the mexican military is being bought off by smuglers and escorting them accross the border there needs to be a strong presence on the border.
THem suckers cross the border call in som apachees/cobras to take them out.
This isn't about somone in malibu hiring Juan to be their gardener or wal-mart's contract cleaners.
I see these people as a direct threat, even more so now that they are hiring military to help them out. Worse is where's the uproar about this? We sell Mexico Humvees with mountd Machine guns to escort drug runners accross our borders?
Yep stage Apaches every 200 miles along border arm Border patrol with 113's w heavy quad 50's. Notify the Mexican if they do not wish for US troops to invade thier country to halt these crossings destroy any that cross and after a certain amount of time(to allow the Mexican goverment time to fix the problem) the send the BIG RED 1 south to mexico city.
-
Two tons of pot found inside Mexico-U.S. border tunnel (http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/mexico/tijuana/20060126-9999-7n26tunnel.html)
Investigators discovered a sophisticated cross-border tunnel yesterday extending about a half-mile and found about 2 tons of marijuana on the Mexican end.
The tunnel begins about 85 feet below a small warehouse about 175 yards south of the U.S. border. The other end is in an apparently vacant industrial building in Otay Mesa.
Late last night, authorities were still pulling marijuana out of the tunnel, which is outfitted with electricity and a ventilation system. The building is in an industrial neighborhood near Tijuana's airport.
(http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20060126/images/news_tunnel.jpg)
Hmmm if they can sneak 2 tons of pot in a sofisticated tunnel just think what else they can smuggle accross.
-
Nice thing about working at a university and handling some of the distance learning classes is listening the things some of the professors teaching the classes say.
One prof said something that kinda scared me. He said that terrorist are just plain stupid. I agree and in most most cases who doesnt.?He then went on to say that there is one group that a terrorist could link up with and anything and everything they needed they could get into the US. He said so far that there wasnt any evidance that they have yet hooked up with said individuals but it is only a matter of time.
-
Originally posted by Wolf14
Nice thing about working at a university and handling some of the distance learning classes is listening the things some of the professors teaching the classes say.
One prof said something that kinda scared me. He said that terrorist are just plain stupid. I agree and in most most cases who doesnt.?He then went on to say that there is one group that a terrorist could link up with and anything and everything they needed they could get into the US. He said so far that there wasnt any evidance that they have yet hooked up with said individuals but it is only a matter of time.
That's pretty much how I feel about the subject. It's not so much the pot, it's the other crap they could easily sneak over as well. Who knows, dozens of sleeper cells could have allready got accross.
-
Originally posted by Gunslinger
The tunnel begins about 85 feet below a small warehouse about 175 yards south of the U.S. border. The other end is in an apparently vacant industrial building in Otay Mesa.
(http://www.monzell.com/images/buckwheat.jpg)
-
culero... I thnk that you are on the wrong track... I don't think anyone here despises hard working mexicans or mexicans in general or... has a loathing for illegals who cross to feed their families but.... everyone wants the law upheld..
I think that the people who "loathe" simply loathe the scope of the problem... It is so large and so costly and so dangerous that it is the problem that they loathe.. The individual mexican wetbacks, be they "good people" or hardened criminals... are just a part of the huge problem that everyone realizes must stop..
It is admirable that you feel sympathy for the "good ones" certainly you must despise the real thugs tho as much as any of us? How do we enforce such a law using the current border?
Nope... tighten up the border and convict and imprison employers for a mandatory year sentance.. then...
Selectively let the "good guys" in to work.
lazs
-
Again, lazs, if you think I don't agree you simply misunderstand me. I'm all for tightening up the border, enforcing the law, and especially going after the employers of illegal aliens since IMO they are what attracts illegals here in such abundance.
I believe you've also misunderstood the folks I was chastising here. For example, see Hangtime's last reply to me. Can there be any doubt after what he said? Do you believe the penalty for non-violent offenses of the law should be summary execution? Can there be any doubt that someone who espouses that isn't speaking from a position of hatred?
culero
-
There's been reports of (and I'm not kidding either) CHINESE soldiers working with the Mexican soldiers up near the border, the Border patrol have tried to keep this quiet but they can't keep a lid on it forever.
-
I think the numbers of undocumented, unscreened and unaccounted for people illegally crossing the border here in California presents a clear and present danger to the security of the United States- Enough said
-
culero.. the problem is that you have no idea if the people crossing are the good guys or... like the guys you ran into yesterday.... ready to whip out guns after they run for cover and shoot. They are crossing a countryies border illegaly for who knows what reason.
I think that the people here are just mad at the scope of the problem.. I think once the problem is trimmed down to a manageable level there would be room for, and...... reason for... compassion but...
I agree that those upholding the law will have to allways assume that people that are breaking the law may harm them because.... they may be bad guys... they may be REAL BAD guys... they all look the same tho. You can't tell the good from the bad till you check em out at gunpoint.
lazs
-
Build an electric fence and mine it, just like the Berlin wall, this has to stop, who knows who is sneaking in ?
As I said earlier, this presents a clear and present danger to the security of the Unites States, take politics out of this, stop looking for votes from certain racial groups and do something to protect EVERY American/resident Alien.
Automate the Agriculture business too, that wil wipe out a vast majority of undocumented workers, this has to stop guys, I mean, how can anyone know who and WHAT is being brought over the border?
-
Originally posted by culero
Again, lazs, if you think I don't agree you simply misunderstand me. I'm all for tightening up the border, enforcing the law, and especially going after the employers of illegal aliens since IMO they are what attracts illegals here in such abundance.
I believe you've also misunderstood the folks I was chastising here. For example, see Hangtime's last reply to me. Can there be any doubt after what he said? Do you believe the penalty for non-violent offenses of the law should be summary execution? Can there be any doubt that someone who espouses that isn't speaking from a position of hatred?
culero
"can there be any doubt?"
Not 'hatred', Culero.. it's RESOLVE.
Most folks that have had to fire a weapon in service to their nation in hostile conditions understand the difference between 'hatred' and 'resolve'.
We need resolve, not hatred; to solve this problem.. no room for religious or racial overtones, and I resent your 'spin' the situation with liberal pansie catch-phrases like 'hatred'.
Resolve.
-
Originally posted by lazs2
snip
You can't tell the good from the bad till you check em out at gunpoint.
lazs
Agreed. That doesn't mean the gun must be smoking and the suspect perforated.
culero
-
Originally posted by Hangtime
[Bsnip
We need resolve, not hatred; to solve this problem.. no room for religious or racial overtones, and I resent your 'spin' the situation with liberal pansie catch-phrases like 'hatred'.
Resolve. [/B]
Resolve does not involve murder, which is exactly what you are advocating. That's why I've derived that your opinion can only be the result of hatred. Its not spin, its fact.
I find it ironic that you claim to support enforcement of the law, and now that you're challenged you choose to attempt to deflect the argument by associating your BS with combat veterans. Yet, what you are saying we should do is clearly a severe violation of the law, and is patently contrary to the principles of the Constitution that our veterans have fought and died for to defend. Shame on you.
culero
-
Originally posted by weaselsan
Damn...I thought it was perfectly legal in Texas to shoot anyone who lived longer than 2 years in a Blue State.
And I thought it was perfectly legal to shoot anyone in Texas because "He needed kill'n"
In which case the illegal immigrants fit right in
-
Originally posted by dmf
I have to agree with that NUKE. If people can come across the border from Mexico, carrying drugs who's to say a terrorist cant do it, carrying a bomb?
Jut another reason why I think we should shoot em on sight
-
Originally posted by RedTop
Believe me when I say...........
Legal=No prblem
Illegal=BIG problem
And that goes for ANYONE. I don't give a rip where your from. Canada , Mexico , England , Russia , France. Makes me NO friggin difference where people come from to live in the U.S. if it is done LEGALLY.
I'm sick of paying for Julio and his band of banditos coming to this state making a living and not paying a DAMN thing. Send it home. Get sent back by the INS only to come back 2 weeks later.
SCREW EM. They get a free pass on everything this state and country has to offer and lots of people just look over it. No big deal. "Oh they are here to help there families" I hear all that bleeding heart crap.
Fox is out to do whatever the frik he wants to and our government and wussy *** legal system with its ACLU whinning B.S. is WEARING ME OUT !!!
If they are bringing drugs here with armored vehicles then blast them across the River. I don't give a frik.
If some "Whitey" is bringing in illegals then BLAST HIS SORRY *** TO.
It's high time people in this country stop trying to say the "Politically" correct thing so they dont hurt someones feelings. This illegal alien problem is out of control. It's a danger. Anyone who thinks its not only needs to look to not so long ago when things were crumbling in N.Y. City.
Culero ,
I get the feeling you may be Mexican AMERICAN. No offense to Mexican Americans was meant. AMERICANS being the key there. Legal Immigrants. People who went thru the pain to get here and do things RIGHT. Mexican , Afican American , whatever , come here legally , and we are good to go.
(http://www.picpop.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10446/applause.gif)
-
Originally posted by culero
I've met a lot of "wetbacks" in my time, and most of 'em would make fine neighbors and community members, completely willing to work and pay their fair share if given opportunity. That doesn't mean I want to condone illegal immigration, but I refuse to scorn these people. The solution is a political problem, not a personal one. Dehumanizing people because they want to earn a living is ignorant.
culero
Fine then let them enter this country LEGALLY.
Any illegal as far as Im concerned I dont care what country they are from. If caught in the act of sneaking across the borders I am all in favor of shooting on site.
So long as it remains the joke of a situation it is. Nothing will change
The best solution politically with Mexico as I see it is to literally make Mexico our 51st state.
Yes by force if need be. Let our Donald Trumps and other entrepreneurs go in and build the place up then th Mexican people wont need or want to leave the area
That is the only way I see it stopping.
-
I married an americanized Mexican. Great lady. Most of her relatives excluding her sisters and brothers live in Mexico or are here Illegally.
I think the real threat is not the external incursions by a foreign neighbor, but the hapless leadership of our nation that goes back tens of years, and us citizens for allowing it to happen. Our government is currently allowing all of our jobs to be exported to foreign nations all over the world. Being an executive for the hospitality industry. I can tell you that the majority of the man power in this industry is of latin descent. They exist in midlevel managment right down to entry level positions. The majority of them I would imagine are illegal since the last ammnesty. The problem with all this is us as a nation have allowed this. Our elected officials who are self serving and incompitent, have lulled us to sleep aqnd pacified us with false ideals. Our economy is based soley on promisary notes that mean nothing.
What we stand for as a nation means nothing we have become a first world nation with a third world culture. Think about it what do we stand for? We stand for "American Idol", Spoiled over paid athletes, "Survivor" and over exposed music industry/ cinema celebrities. We have been blinded by all this media nonsense and have lost our soul as a nation. every year our children become less intelligent, the selfish rich become richer, and the poor are desperate. Our nation suffers national disater after disater, and the media makes us turn a blind eye. The tv and print tells you what to think and what to feel. STOP NOW! Make a STAND! Be vocal, Vote. Vote independent! No more alleigance to party lines. Vote your concience. I do not want illegals crossing my borders and pay for their problems. The problem is within not on the border. This nation will never be safe until we as a nation of one stand up and face our internal problems first! :furious If you listen real hard you can hear a lone fiddle playing in the distance, and the smell of smoke in the air. :mad:
Uber.
-
Originally posted by lazs2
are rednecks more stupid than say... wetbacks? colored people? Can you have a redneck who isn't a white guy?
lazs
ALL people, are colored people.
Must be. I've yet to see a clear one;)
-
Originally posted by culero
Resolve does not involve murder, which is exactly what you are advocating. That's why I've derived that your opinion can only be the result of hatred. Its not spin, its fact.
I find it ironic that you claim to support enforcement of the law, and now that you're challenged you choose to attempt to deflect the argument by associating your BS with combat veterans. Yet, what you are saying we should do is clearly a severe violation of the law, and is patently contrary to the principles of the Constitution that our veterans have fought and died for to defend. Shame on you.
culero
Horsepucky. You quoted chapter and verse on Texas trespassing. I pointed out that the nation IS at war. It's also fact that the current military, border patrol, state and local police & sheriffs can't stop the traffic with the current rules of engagement. Ask THEM, they'll tell yah what WILL stop it.
Whats needed is dead border invaders. Not touchy-feely permissive and enabling 'give the lawbreakers a break' BS.. THAT AIN'T worked, it WON'T work and as long as liberal whiney pansies let 'em get away with busting the borders we're gonna have a massive hole in our southern security cordon.. a hole easily big enough for a death dealing blow to one of our cities to come waltzing in though with the next 40 man group of border invaders.
Lastly, I KNOW what I am, and it ain't a 'racist' and I'm not expousing racial or religious hatred. I'm expousing NATIONAL DEFENSE. As a veteran, I've some understanding of what the decison process is for pulling a trigger in defense of your fellow americans, and THAT is what I'm talking about.
You can take yer 'hatered' label and fold it up till it's all sharp pointy corners and pound it up yer backside; cause that's where it came from to begin with.
-
Originally posted by uberhun
If you listen real hard you can hear a lone fiddle playing in the distance, and the smell of smoke in the air.
Uber.
Nothing to worry about . It`s not who you think it is. It`s just Cheech tuning up while burning a doob. :)
-
OK cuelo... let's get this part out in the open then... you have a legal American wife of mexican decent who has family that is here illegaly...
I have a girlfriend in the same situation... my grand daughter is a 50/50..
Here is where we differ. Illegal is illegal. I went to a birthday party this weekend that was a VFW event (very few whites) 300 or so. great time. there were legals and, I suppose..... illegals there.
Now.. Every American of mexican decent I know thinks illegals are scum unless...
unless they are relatives.
It don't work that way and, deep down, they know it. You should know it. You don't get to pick and choose what illegals we will suffer..... neither do I nor do our wives/girlfriends.
You cross a countries border at night with gun totong criminals and murderes and theives and drug dealers and you take a chance on getting shot.... No, "don't shoot him he is my cousins brother in law by a former marriage" crap. The rules are for everyone.
lazs
-
And the rules of the human condition (i.e. those who are family and friends are humans, others are not) can't be ignored in trying to find a reasonable and effective way to control of the problem.
You'll find just as many people complaining about illegal immigrants, then winking about the fact that the foundation and drywall on their new house saved them a bundle of cash, since they used illegal immigrants.
Sorry if what I'm going to type has already been said by others, but here goes:
1. All immigration is a federal government issue and responsibility. All employment, drivers licensing, welfare, housing, healthcare, law enforcement/justice industry, etc. are state or local events and responsibility. The federal government is the culprit here by making states and localities bear the economic burden by not simply doing its job effectively. Move about half the Homeland Security people standing around doing nothing at airports to the southern border. There might be enough people to stand around doing nothing 6 feet apart along the entire Mexican border.
It's a national responsibility that affects some states more than others, yet the federal government has no incentive to stop it because of point 2.
2. You might want to cover your eyes and ignore this: cold-hearted economic studies show that illegal imigrants have a net positive effect on the economy. Yup. You add up all the social costs, subtract them from the economic gain, and the net effect is positive. Subsequent generations improve in economic status, which means more spending by them.
Illegal immigrants hold 19% of jobs in farming, 17% in cleaning and 11% to 12% in food preparation and construction. There is no evidence at all that legal residents holding those jobs have suffered reduced wages in those industries which are on the bottom rung of the income ladder.
They simply spend money to live like everyone else and consumption is king in the US economy, and construction is vital. Now... Only the federal government cares about the national economy. State and local governments don't give a hoot about the national economy. It makes you wonder if there is an intentional lack of action to stemming the tide?
3. Setting up machine gun nests and claymores along border sounds macho, but until the federal government allocates the available resources properly to enforce laws against hiring, there is little chance of seeing any solution. When the economy starts taking some lumps later on this year, the flow will slow a little, but not because of the feds doing anything about it.
-
Originally posted by Hangtime
It's been done...
Arizona Border Watch (http://www.azborderwatch.blogspot.com/)
Careful.. the pics are not suitable for those with a weak stomach.
Very tough stuff. Some where there are families who will never know what happened to their kin. Mind you now, I am not getting lefty soft. Darn shame some people feel driven to take such risk.
-
Originally posted by Rolex
And the rules of the human condition (i.e. those who are family and friends are humans, others are not) can't be ignored in trying to find a reasonable and effective way to control of the problem.
You'll find just as many people complaining about illegal immigrants, then winking about the fact that the foundation and drywall on their new house saved them a bundle of cash, since they used illegal immigrants.
Sorry if what I'm going to type has already been said by others, but here goes:
1. All immigration is a federal government issue and responsibility. All employment, drivers licensing, welfare, housing, healthcare, law enforcement/justice industry, etc. are state or local events and responsibility. The federal government is the culprit here by making states and localities bear the economic burden by not simply doing its job effectively. Move about half the Homeland Security people standing around doing nothing at airports to the southern border. There might be enough people to stand around doing nothing 6 feet apart along the entire Mexican border.
It's a national responsibility that affects some states more than others, yet the federal government has no incentive to stop it because of point 2.
2. You might want to cover your eyes and ignore this: cold-hearted economic studies show that illegal imigrants have a net positive effect on the economy. Yup. You add up all the social costs, subtract them from the economic gain, and the net effect is positive. Subsequent generations improve in economic status, which means more spending by them.
Illegal immigrants hold 19% of jobs in farming, 17% in cleaning and 11% to 12% in food preparation and construction. There is no evidence at all that legal residents holding those jobs have suffered reduced wages in those industries which are on the bottom rung of the income ladder.
They simply spend money to live like everyone else and consumption is king in the US economy, and construction is vital. Now... Only the federal government cares about the national economy. State and local governments don't give a hoot about the national economy. It makes you wonder if there is an intentional lack of action to stemming the tide?
3. Setting up machine gun nests and claymores along border sounds macho, but until the federal government allocates the available resources properly to enforce laws against hiring, there is little chance of seeing any solution. When the economy starts taking some lumps later on this year, the flow will slow a little, but not because of the feds doing anything about it.
Yeah but they're mexicans! :mad:
-
The feds have stopped enforcing the immigration act of 86 the last couple of years, I think I read that no fines have been levied for two years.
You start hitting employers with big fines and the flow will slow.
shamus
-
I don't believe that the studies are accurate rolex. I believe that what isn't factored in is...
Crime.. drugs and gangs and the cost of such a burden.
lack of progress... When the first brassero programs shut down and minimum wage and conditions were impossed... it took 25 mexicans on a tomato sorter... after that... the new sorters were laser and it took at most...3 mexicans.. Farm equipment will evolve to take out non skilled labor if it has incentive.
housing..... The study is old and by someone who doesn't understant construction.... by far... the largest cost these days in housing is the infrastrucure and fees (permits, sewer and water hook ups, streets curb gutter and sidewalk, lighting and landscaping, city improvement fees etc,) and.... material. The sub standard work done by illegal labor is simply tollerated since they are worked... well.... illegaly... they are not paid for overtime nor or they allowed the safety equipment or tools that normal workers would have....
We also accept a level of workmanship and finished product in our housing that would be laughed at 25 years ago... not to cut corners so much as... the actual craftsmanship does not exist.
In the trades I still know contractors... the illegals are unteachable for the most part. If they are any good... they end up being paid the same as workers in the past were paid and they do about the same level and quantity of work.
I believe that your study only covers (if it is like the ones I have seen) what work gets done and what money is put into the economy vs how much of a burden on the illegals put on the infrastructure in medical and such... the theory being that they pay into a lot of programs but never get anything back (SS, unemployment etc)
Even that can't last.... rolex... you might just want to bite your tongue and let the anti illegals rant as... them ranting is what is keeping the illegals on the defensive and keeping them from demanding an even bigger piece of the social welfare pie.
The net effect tho is that we need to shut down any illegal activity for our own good. It doesn't get better and it doesn't stay the same... it only get's worse
lazs
-
Its getting to a point with the technology we have that the product is going to outproduce the ability for people to buy it. The guy who used to run a machine to create the product is out of a job, and can no longer buy the product. Its like anti-Ford stuff. I would think in the long run it would be better to keep unskilled labor in a job, than to force them into other ways to make a living.
-
in the case of illegals and farm work... it is better to create the machines to do the harvesting and decrease the price of food. You also need to get rid of the illegals so that they don't drain your infrastructre.
In the case of construction... it is probly wiser to pay for highly skilled workers to turn out a good product. The cost of one in ten roofs leaking is not bearable for instance... the cost to repair new houses is skyrocketing with whole walls being removed to repair water damage from leaks or... replace entire weather walls when stucco is done badly... none of the stucco for instance will last it's expected lifespan when done by unskilled labor.
It is a net loss for everyone. You can shut down the border and import people on visas if you still need a pool of unskilled workers.
lazs
-
I used to have a nice paying job putting siding on new homes. Until the illegal Mexican crews showed up. American siding crews were paid $1.20 to $1.45 per sq foot of the house, the illegal Mexican crews were being paid .80 a foot. Even considering that the framing contractor has to hire a punch carpenter for $15 an hour to fix their screw ups, they still come out way ahead.
I used to make $25 an hour to either hang the siding on the home or to do the cutting. (I could, still can actually, cut an arch out of a 4 x 8 sheet of masonite with a circular saw and you cant tell that it wasnt made that way at the factory) Now I work for 8 - 10 dollars an hour, when I can find work. Don't tell me the illegals dont have an adverse affect on American workers cuz I just wont buy it.
I dont have anything against any one who wants to come to America LEGALLY. Any one who crosses our borders ILLEGALLY should be deported asap.