Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: dizman on January 24, 2006, 09:52:50 PM
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(http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW/do335c.jpg)
Yes, the arrow. One of the fastest piston powered fighters EVER! It has a push pull prop system. Even has an ejection seat. The arrow had one 30 mm cannon and 2 15mm mg's. this plane even helped to test out the air to ground guided missiles. It never saw any combat but does that really matter?
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Yes it really matters.
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Yes. Sorry.
If not then imagine how much fun you could have with some of the stuff at http://www.luft46.com
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it was the fastest production fighter of WWII. this point has been beaten into me in this forum. apperently the bearcat was faster, but it wasnt in WWII.
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All I can think every time I look at a picture of the Do335 is how spectacularly bad the cockpit visibility would be in it.
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(http://www.web-birds.com/permann/he162.jpg)
Well then how bout the He-162? The peoples fighter. It had twin 20 mm cannons and an ejection seat. It has also been recorded as seeing actual combat at the last 3 months of the war. Max speed was 525 Mph.
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the salamander would be bas azzzzz!
it supposedly was faster then the 262, and very manueverable.
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Saw a picture and a blurb about the Arrow in December's Flypast
magazine. Apparently the International Flugzeug Museum is building
a replica using alot of original parts. According to the picture caption,
it's based by Schwenningen in south Germany.
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someone once asked "but why did the salamander need an ejection seat?"
i then showed him a picture of the aircraft and said "that's why." pointing at the engine placement.
this guy responds "so just because it goes fast?"
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Originally posted by SMIDSY
it was the fastest production fighter of WWII. this point has been beaten into me in this forum. apperently the bearcat was faster, but it wasnt in WWII.
P-51H was faster...And did fly limited combat sorties in last week of war.
P-47M was faster too.
I see the Do 335 as a fast, but largely useless aircraft inasmuch as the Me 262 was operational. And I agree with Karnak, how does one see out of the thing?
My regards,
Widewing
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Same way you look out of a Lamborghini, look straight and hope nothing catches you.
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I have seen luft 46 before and always find it interesting that (at least in theory) the Germans were so far ahead in aircraft design
A-10 ...whoops I mean Junkers Ground Attack Project (http://www.luft46.com/ksart/ksjga-7.jpg)
F86 / Mig15 <---- Focke-Wulf Fw "Super TL" (http://www.luft46.com/ksart/ksstl-1.jpg)
Osprey <--- Wesserflug We P.1003/1 (http://www.luft46.com/ksart/kswsf-4.jpg)
EDIT: As I understand it, the reason there are similarities is because the allies captured a lot of there research and such...
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Originally posted by Widewing
P-51H was faster...And did fly limited combat sorties in last week of war.
P-47M was faster too.
I see the Do 335 as a fast, but largely useless aircraft inasmuch as the Me 262 was operational. And I agree with Karnak, how does one see out of the thing?
My regards,
Widewing
SHUT UP!! LALALALALALALA!! I CANT HEAR YOU!!
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Osprey has gotta be the coolest looking aircraft of WW2
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Consider that the jet program was plagued with problems, and that a reliable jet engine wasn't easily produced. In fact the Me262 got sub-par engines in construction. They turned it into a dog and a sitting duck against allied fighters. Had it been built with the more powerful prototype engines it would have been much more capable, but these simply were too hard to manufacture on the scale required, so weaker engines were used.
That's why you have Ta152s, 190D-12s and the like, Do335s, and many other fast movers with props. Jets weren't reliable enough or plentiful enough.
As for "luft '46" -- I tire of most of the fawning over it. Not that you are, but others gush and gush saying that the Germans of WW2 designed the world we see today, that in fact the F22 is based directly on a luft'46 plan! (and other BS like that). Fact of the matter is this: These guys were being arrested if they didn't produce. They were being forced to design. They were sometimes sent to concentration camps if they did poorly (which is certain death, honestly). There was no rest for them. They were spewing out trash left and right, regardless of how retarded the idea was. This (for one) allowed some literally insane ideas, but also meant that they had to figure out basic things.
Things such as: What is the best way to put a jet engine in a plane? Well as you see a lot of the luft'46 designs have a short stubby body and an engine inline in the center.
That does not mean that the F86 or the Mig15 used this design as a starting point. It means that the best, basic design for a light weight fighter is 1 engine (2 were too heavy, and didn't produce enough power - yet) in the centerline (and if you had 2, lost 1, you didn't have horrible handling this way, see P80, mig15 configurations), with a small body and raked wings.
This does NOT mean that the Germans designed all planes with that configuration, as many luft'46 lovers claim (and some shows on "History Channel"), but rather it means that the Germans were practical and realized there was only one simple way to design a jet fighter with the understanding they had at the time. Now Germans were a bit ahead with their jet aircraft design, so they had a (small) headstart on the other powers. The other powers, however, found out the same thing the Germans did and learned the same principles, so they realized the same thing.
It's logic, not mimicry. You tell a man that 2 and 2 is 4 and he might just copy you. You teach a man that 1 and 1 is 2, then ask him what 2 and 2 is, he should say 4, coming to this conclusion on his own. The rest of the world came to their own conclusions, they didn't copy luft'46 designs.
Sorry, off the soapbox now. :furious
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Originally posted by Mustaine
the salamander would be bas azzzzz!
it supposedly was faster then the 262, and very manueverable.
I was verbally beaten up for suggesting we get it at 1/2 me262 perks sometime last year :) Was quickly pointed out it's supposed to out turn, out climb, & out accelerate the 262. Downside is substantially less firepower (still more than enough for me). One version with 2x20mm and iirc around 120 rpg. The other version packed 2x30mm w/ 60rpg.
Would probably end up costing 400+ perks... but the whines when people ripped off the wooden wings on the merge would be priceless :)
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Dang krusty, you get just a little outta hand there. All i'm sayin is that we need another jet or extremley fast prop plane in the game. Maybe a DO-335, maybe a He-162. How bout some wasserfals.
(http://www.cloudster.com/RealHardware/Wasserfal/wasserfal22a.jpg)
They would be fun to control from the ground. Maybe...omg a Bf-109Z! (http://www.unrealaircraft.com/hybrid/images/H109_z.jpeg)
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"Dang krusty, you get just a little outta hand there"
yes, I got on a soap box, and I'm sorry, but I stepped off the box at the end of my post :P
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:huh
Mental Note Dont Mention Luft46 Around Krusty........
You did see the end of my post there right Krusty....?
EDIT: As I understand it, the reason there are similarities is because the allies captured a lot of there research and such...
Man I knew that someone would bite but not that hard
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Originally posted by SMIDSY
. apperently the bearcat was faster, but it wasnt in WWII.
Tell that to the guys who were in VF-19 who took delivery of their Bearcats in May 1945 and operationally deployed on USS Langley when it sailed for the Pacific on 1 August 1945. Guess they were in World War v.2.5?
BTW, VF-18 was also equipped with Bearcats.
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Originally posted by dizman
Well then how bout the He-162? The peoples fighter. It had twin 20 mm cannons and an ejection seat. It has also been recorded as seeing actual combat at the last 3 months of the war. Max speed was 525 Mph.
Ejecting looks like certain death, might as well take cyanide instead of being sucked into the engine.
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"Tell that to the guys who were in VF-19 who took delivery of their Bearcats in May 1945 ..."
And to the family of Major Borsodi who plowed his Lockheed P-80 into the ground at Burtonwood airbase (England) in January 1945!
(side note: German radio announced the type of aircraft that had crashed and personal information on the pilot within the hour it happened)
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There's a difference between loading the planes on a ship and sailing from California for the weeks-long-trip to the front lines, and actually "seeing combat".
The bearcats were in transit. En route. They were NOT active, by my reckoning.
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Indeed, the Bearcats did not see combat.
OTOH, VF-19 was operational.
To see someone then say the Bearcat "wasnt in WWII" is ludicrous.
Squadrons were training in Bearcats in May of 1945.
At that same time if ONE...not a squadron...just ONE Nazi experimental wunder plane managed to get into the air and get engaged...win or lose... we'd allow it in the game.
This despite the fact that at that time just about any Nazi plane that made it into the air was flying in a "hostile environment" and likely to be engaged whether the aircraft was "operational" or not. They had no "safe" place to train or test aircraft. Their entire airspace was patrolled by Allied aircraft.
Seems like we walk the knife-edge of a double standard in these discussions.
Too bad VF-19 didn't do it's transition work from CV's off Okinawa in May of 1945, eh?
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Originally posted by Toad
At that same time if ONE...not a squadron...just ONE Nazi experimental wunder plane managed to get into the air and get engaged...win or lose... we'd allow it in the game.
Actually, not so. HT has specified that the plane must have been delivered to squad/group levels, at least. Has to have seen action, been a production model, and been delivered to at least the basic unit size. Just a heads-up.
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Didn't know that, thanks. I hope he sticks to that.
I'm sure it's going to make a lot of Nazi Wunderplane hopefuls dispair however.
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Originally posted by Krusty
Actually, not so. HT has specified that the plane must have been delivered to squad/group levels, at least. Has to have seen action, been a production model, and been delivered to at least the basic unit size. Just a heads-up.
Going by that the Meteor Mk I would not qualify. It did reach a full squadron in service, but it was never a production version.
The Meteor Mk III does meet that requirement though. It saw combat, it was in full squadron service and it was a production aircraft.
The Meteor Mk III is the only Allied "Wonder Weapon" that I can think of that does meet those requirements.
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Originally posted by Krusty
Actually, not so. HT has specified that the plane must have been delivered to squad/group levels, at least. Has to have seen action, been a production model, and been delivered to at least the basic unit size. Just a heads-up.
By this criteria the P-51H qualifies. They were in squadron service, were flying combat patrols (no enemy encountered) as of August 10, 1945 and were production models.
Am I suggesting that HTC should add the P-51H? No, not until after the plane set has been filled with aircraft that saw heavy service. However, I don't think you can rule out aircraft that were in service, in combat ready squadrons simply because they didn't encounter enemy aircraft or were a couple of days away from flying combat sorties. Strong arguments can be made for the F7F-2N, F8F-1, Meteor III and the He 162 as being legitimate war-time aircraft. That said, I still don't see any justification for adding these until the full spectrum of well used aircraft are added. Just about anyone could list more than two dozen types that should be added before we get to the fringe planes.
Of course, each new type added is a huge undertaking by HTC, so my guess is that we'll never see the above mentioned aircraft.
My regards,
Widewing
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No more wunderwaffe or allied super planes please...
There are plenty of wholes in the plane set that have yet to be filled...
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HE-162 had low endurance time
HE-162 (http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/2072/He162.html)
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Actually the He162 saw combat, so it fits the criteria :P
EDIT: Not that I'm disagreeing. I agree with most of what's been said.
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As crazy as this may sound to some of you, the He-162 wasn't made for long term flight(GASPH)! Now talkin about airplanes that we should have that were used alot during the war, well.......
Mig-3
Gladiator
Swordfish
P-39
FW-200
Sherman Tank
B-29(of Course)
Ki-43
Il-4
He-111
Ju-52(i'm not crazy)
Thats about all I can think of off the top of my head.
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Originally posted by dizman
As crazy as this may sound to some of you, the He-162 wasn't made for long term flight(GASPH)! Now talkin about airplanes that we should have that were used alot during the war, well.......
Mig-3
Gladiator
Swordfish
P-39
FW-200
Sherman Tank
B-29(of Course)
Ki-43
Il-4
He-111
Ju-52(i'm not crazy)
Thats about all I can think of off the top of my head.
nice list. would like to add a Beaufighter though, with torp capability. would fill a nice niche attack/torp carrying capability as well as giving the allies an early war attack aircraft for PTO, ETO and MTO
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To stay off topic, I believe we will receive a submarine shortly. I've heard one of the HTC members (might've been Skuzzy) his grandfather was a submariner so they're interested in it.
These are but rumours, but I found this one rather tempting :)
Btw, here are is a picture of the pilot's view from the Do-335;
(http://www.pacific-fighters.com/ss/Do-335A-1_Cockpit_011.jpg)
(from a game called Pacific-Fighters)
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Man I love Cockpits with lots of gauges and gadgets. I think after HTC makes ToD they should make a sercet planes over Europe type thing for those who want to fly and hold these planes that would never or see little combat.
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I really don't think pilots of the Do-335 would've had a bad sight, it's like the Ju-88, you can see from it just fine too
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So, they finally got the DO-335 in pacific fighters eh? Sweetness. I gotta reinstall that game now.
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XF-11 would be nice.
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i just want a PBY dammit!!!:D
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Don't forget the B-29 :D
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Originally posted by frank3
To stay off topic, I believe we will receive a submarine shortly. I've heard one of the HTC members (might've been Skuzzy) his grandfather was a submariner so they're interested in it.
i believe it was Pyro's Grandfather, though i could be wrong.
that's form an OLD interview i read on the interent by Pyro... i think it was from 2001.... though i can not find it, and i may be wrong.
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I'd like a real REASON to have the Sunderland or PBY or Condor (dream, dream). Maybe even a Grumman Duck? :rofl
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Salamander would be far from uber tho -- postwar testing at Edwards found it to be a MONSTER to control. Experienced test pilots found it highly unstable in flight -- and in this regard, it was a miserable failure since it was designed as a "peoples fighter" you could use with suboptimally trained newbie pilots.
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it would be nice to launch a bomber from a CV. a PBY maybe