Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: leonid on January 18, 2001, 12:43:00 AM
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ProGun(conservative): Basically just like guns a lot, whether that means shooting, hunting, or collecting.
AntiGun(liberal): Intense dislike for the kind of people that enjoy owning, and using guns.
If anyone says otherwise, they're just kidding themselves, or at the very least merely justifying these two very basic - and real - reasons.
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WOW! Who would have guessed that all of the gun/antigun arguments on this bbs could be dismissed with two single sentance descriptions?!
Not me.
AKDejaVu
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Be sarcastic all you like, Dejavu. It's still the truth (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Ermm.. you need to look up the definition of "truth"... then look up the definition of "subjective"... then look up the definition of "obtuse".
AKDejaVu
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I own two handguns...one collectible, one for shootin'. I inherited them both recently, and they've both been sitting in my closet doing nothing. I may take a class to learn how to handle them, and take one to a shooting range sometime, but I can't imagine doing it as a regular hobby. As for hunting, I don't have anything against someone going out and shooting a deer for meat, but I wouldn't be caught dead shooting an animal...I'd have a tough time doing that. I'm Pro Gun.
My mother wouldn't go near a gun...she'd just plain be afraid of the thing. She's Pro Gun.
Your entire post was just opinion and argumentative (the last sentance added that)...I kind of liked it, but you're broad generalization is wrong (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
SOB
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So you're saying most pro gunners are pro gunners because of their intense love and devotion to the American constitution?
I think leonid has the overall point pretty well - we support/fight that which appeals/appalls (to) us. That the gun debate is a bit more complicated is also true (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
But at least some of the people involved in the debate are motivated by what leonid described (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://www.geocities.com/nirfurian/stSanta.jpg)
"I am the light at the end of your sorry little tunnel." - A. Eldricht
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Thank you, StSanta. Finally, a man of reason.
And people, I seriously believe that when you get rid of all the hype, and legal issues what's left are those two points of view. One is based on self interest, and the other on bigotry. And while I may be wrong to think that the only opinions concerning the gun issue are of the above, it's probably much closer to the truth to say that what keeps people from any sort of common ground over guns are generally derived from the above two statements.
Most people are driven by very simple things that when analyzed are usually less than flattering. It takes intellect's ability to justify or obfuscate to make our opinions feel more right, and therefore valid.
[This message has been edited by leonid (edited 01-18-2001).]
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Note that in Leonid's example one group simply enjoys a basically private personal experience. The other group has a negative reaction to someone else enjoying something.
(I do not necessarily agree with the hypothesis itself or the stereotypes with which it was presented. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) )
[This message has been edited by Toad (edited 01-18-2001).]
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Hehe. Toad, what was the whole point of your post, then???
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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As stated above, I think its a much more complicated issue, but I do agree that your statement may be part of the whole ball of wax.
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ProGun(conservative): Like the smell of gunpowder.
AntiGun(liberal): dislike the smell of gunpowder.
Eagler
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ProGun(conservative): Basically just like guns a lot, whether that means shooting, hunting, or collecting.
AntiGun(liberal): Intense dislike for the kind of people that enjoy owning, and using guns.
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Excellent paraphrase! methinks someone watched last nights episode of "West Wing" (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
By the way I really like the show even though it is "almost" 100% bleeding heart liberal in it's content (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Did you catch the episode where Bartlet trashed the conservative talk show host with the biblical passages?
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OhNooo
smile awhile
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I'm liberal. I'm not anti-gun. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
I've considered buying one several times, but just have not been able to justify it.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Sisu
-Karnak
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I can't believe the original post is being portrayed as anything but an overly simplistic more inacurate than not generalization.
I own guns, and I know alot of people that own guns. SOME of those people I am not comfortable with having guns, others I am completely fine with it. Strange, but I usually feel the same way about them behind the wheel of a car.
Most anti-gun mentality is based upon the fact that guns will eventually get into the wrong hands. Its guns in the hands of people that DON'T fit into the first category that have a tendancy to fuel the second category.
Category one people: Think about how often you used your gun to rob a liquor store. Think about how often you used your shotgun to drive by someone's house and shoot them while they were out front. Think about how often you've started firing at random targets in a crowd. Now think about who the anti-gun people really dislike.
AKDejaVu
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not a flame but i am a hard core liberal and a nra cerified instructor ( didnt join the nra as i dissagree with almost all their political positions. ) firearmes are a unremovable fact in the u.s.a. i am for reason to be used in firearmes but have a inate distrust of our or anyone elses government controling firearms dont know the answer really dont think there is one .
but noone can have mine.
i like the conservatives am deadly serious about that one. ( and i wont register them either )
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i don't like or use guns i could really care less about em either way - but i would never restrict the rights of anyone else - i fully support the right to own guns just dont really care for em myself - you say i am kidding myself???
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Okay, back to another question regarding this article below, Do guns kill people, or do people kill people?
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/azstar/20010117/lo/gun_maker_sellers_sued_over_pizza_hut_killings_1.html (http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/azstar/20010117/lo/gun_maker_sellers_sued_over_pizza_hut_killings_1.html)
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The real bottom line is that no matter what there are no "facts" for either arguments. All there is are opinions, either pro or con, each has good reasons and each believes they are right, so the bottom line is this argument/discussion cannot and will not ever be "won" by either side, all You can do is express Your opinions. However as long as people DO express their opinions one way or the other there will always be change...see what Im saying you may not win an argument but you can get a change. and with that change there will be as much bickering and opinions as before the change, thus is the cycle.. I know thats off topic but its good to think about when you cant figure out why some "idiot" doesent see that he is "wrong".
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OH NO!!! Mr.Bill found me out!!!
Yeah, it was last night's episode of West Wing that I got that from. Really rang when I heard it. When you generalize there will never be consensus, but when there is respect and trust, compromise is usually close behind.
And, yeah, I saw that one where the Prez puts that christian right talk show host in her place. Wow. I need to remember to look up Leviticus to get the good stuff ...
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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is the west wing any good? (not to hijack thread but im not going to make another to ask)
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Originally posted by TheWobble:
is the west wing any good? (not to hijack thread but im not going to make another to ask)
Hey, no problem, Wobble. My wife started watching it, and it wasn't too long before I started to as well. The program focuses around a liberal administration, but that last episode was cool, because it showed the stupidity, and the good, inherent in both parties. I like it, but it does have a left wing shwing to it.
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hmm sounds nice, I was never much of a series follower, but since the sopranos came out I have become one, sounds interesting.
<puts shotgun down>
you may have thread back
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<puts shotgun down>
you may have thread back
LOL!! <leonid finishes laughing, then calmly places the tachi back under the desk>
Now there's a good series, Sopranos. My wife and I watched the previous season shows on rented videos, and were so impressed we're going to add HBO to our cable service.
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The point? It should be obvious.
What are liberals supposed to stand for?
Intolerance of and bigotry against anyone who doesn't think they way they do?
[This message has been edited by Toad (edited 01-25-2001).]
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What are conservatives supposed to stand for?
Tolerance of bigotry against anyone who doesn't look/speak/think the they way they do?
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Check the first post Dowding.
Who's doing what to whom in Leonid's opinion?
The "gun lovers" are simply minding their own business. They are not the ones trying to force others to change and accept their opinions as the one true way.
[This message has been edited by Toad (edited 01-26-2001).]
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keen observation toad..what does this tell us?