Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: mars01 on January 30, 2006, 08:43:53 AM
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We'll guys you have hit a winner with BOB and Rolling Plane Set.
I feel like I'm cheating when I fly for the brits and for that reason I have been flying alot of LW and it has been great! The LW planes just barely match up to the spits and hurries and now that the playing field has been leveled a little with tht RPS it is a lot better.
There have been some great fights, especially when it was spits and hurries 1 series and 109E. Talk about having to work the planes on both sides. I was suprised how well the 109 matched up, but a well flow hurri or spit is deadly in the right hands no matter what.
Last night I logged in and saw 70 people in AVA. WTG.
Although I would never want to see RPS hit the MA, I think it is spot on in the AvA and works great. I really got a sense of time frame and immersion, especially since I am in the middle of Pete Townsends Battle of Brittian and the war is finally starting in ernest.
What I find the funniest and most suprising is that most of the ffights that I have been on have always been over England. You would think with the better planes the Brtis would always be pushing over France, but that is not the case. Even when the LW is outnumbered.
Any way WTG guys! It is a great change of pace from the Fun Police and horde monkeys just padding score in the MA. I hope AvA continues to be a place where the fight is at.
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rps?
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Rolling Plane Set.....................
Over time historical planes are added to represent the passing of months/years.
Start with spit 1 and hurri 1 and progress to spit5 and hurri2 etc...
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rotating plane set=rps
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The reason the fights are over england is because my allied brothers arent very good at teamwork and are a littlle passive... But Im working on them...
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Is landgrabbing enabled?
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Toad, i think land grabbing is enabled but no one has a C-47 to carry the troops into battle :)
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Excellent! I will check it out!
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Taod hey bud,
As always, this arena is really affected by the guys in there. So if you get a bunch of guys that are just there for teh land then yeah it sucks. But luckly for me I guess I have not seen anyone trying to land grab and there have been a lot of fun fights.
LOL hey Jam,
Yeah I noticed some of that. LOL sometimes it was the only reason I got away in my Franz lol.
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1st time I went in there it was bore-n-zoom by 110 and 109 adnauseum. I figured that might be the case, it sucked. Figured I would try one more time in next few days.
2nd time I went in there it was great. Was fighting teufel and chance4 and they were aggressive. It was a real fight. They were both on me like flies on batfink. Chance4 is an excellent 109 pilot, I was pleasantly surprised.
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AvA is fun....unforunately when I've logged on lucky to have 13 people there.
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I'm really enjoying it. It's fun to see how the LW planes shine when used in their historic matchups. It was awesome to see 50 players in the AvA last weekend, and then 70 this weekend.
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Yes its growing weekly. I wonder if they plan to do a Pacific campaign next?
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Originally posted by Hajo
AvA is fun....unforunately when I've logged on lucky to have 13 people there.
When? At 3am? :D
Last night at 8pm (a Sunday of all days) I logged in with close to 70 pilots. :aok
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70 pilots?! Heck, maybe I'll reup my account to fly in the CT. I always liked it in there but not enough pilots.
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do they still do the thrusday night squad nites?
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MGD was in the MA last night just as our squad night was starting. He invited us to hit the AvA for a fight, and we joined the nightmares and friends for a great night of flying.
As for hitting France...did that. I think we hit them with most of the Allies that were logged in, was a huge fight, died smiling :)
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Hmmmmmmmm.........
Well I got to admit. I wasn't gonna bother with it. Been there done that kinda thing. Squadies said hey come try it. (BUNCH O BULLIES IS WHAT THEY ARE THINK NwBie PUT EM UP TO IT)
So tried it.
Amazed! Actually got some good high alt 20k+ engagements and some mid and low alt turn and burn!
And the spit and hurri pilots were good! Had some great fights! Some good bomber intercepts also. Dang Bostons are fast.
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Last I checked, there was no strat. YAWN.
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Can't think of a higher recommendation. :)
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thing is, the old CT was great too.
funny how a name change has drawn such a crowd. hope it continues.
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This is BoB. Wasn't that also the most popular CT setup? That and Fin/Rus? Wonder why.
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funny how a name change has drawn such a crowd. hope it continues.
Name change had nothing to do with why there are more people there and everything to do with RPS. RPS is why I am there. The playing field is a bit more level. I am curious to see what happens at the end, when it goes back to most planes available.thing is, the old CT was great too.
I'm not trying to start a fight with ya bat, but I don't agree with this one either.
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Toad and Stringer.....great fight tonight
Hope to see you back in the arena again! :D
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Duke. You kept both of us busy. Excellent flying.
Did you use a Jedi mind trick on our bullets? You know, the old "this isn't the Spitfire you are looking for..." thing?
Lotsa fun; I don't usually fly LW stuff, so I have a lot to learn.
Flew with Beemer a bit in the MA after that. I have to say the fights were much better in the AvA overall. Mindset of the players mostly, I believe.
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Originally posted by mars01
Name change had nothing to do with why there are more people there and everything to do with RPS. RPS is why I am there. The playing field is a bit more level. I am curious to see what happens at the end, when it goes back to most planes available. I'm not trying to start a fight with ya bat, but I don't agree with this one either.
thats fine mars, and i can see the difference between a tard post and a genuine one. IMO, you just had to be there at the right time with the right people flying and it was still the best fights in the game.
you've always been a large cut above the flamers, i respect you as much as i did before any of the nonsense started.
we can agree to disagree about the old CT, no? :)
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I also flew in AvA and I was quite surprised of the popularity and the different style of fighting too. Mostly people there have good spirit and a lot of
was going on - probably much like early MA days.
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Originally posted by wrag
Well I got to admit. I wasn't gonna bother with it. Been there done that kinda thing. Squadies said hey come try it. (BUNCH O BULLIES IS WHAT THEY ARE THINK NwBie PUT EM UP TO IT)
YOU ARE ADDICTED!!!!!!! :D
Say thank you, wrag! (eheheheheh, we did it Newb)
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Originally posted by DipStick
1st time I went in there it was bore-n-zoom by 110 and 109 adnauseum. I figured that might be the case, it sucked. Figured I would try one more time in next few days.
2nd time I went in there it was great. Was fighting teufel and chance4 and they were aggressive. It was a real fight. They were both on me like flies on batfink. Chance4 is an excellent 109 pilot, I was pleasantly surprised.
ya is hit or miss...have had a few great fights...but have had more than a few episodes of bore n zoom, and running to a mob, where they all can b n z. on the whole fun though.
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Yah, Pluck, upon reflection I feel this is going to be the problem with AvA.
In just about any matchup, one side has turners and one side has B&Z planes. Thus the style of fighting is pretty much dictated by the plane set in use.
As we see here, the LW's advantage is in B&Z; it's natural that they're going to use that advantage. The Allied advantage is in turnfighting. They are going to attempt to capitalize on that.
Same in the Pac, mostly. the IJN/A turns, the US mostly B&Z's.
These are generalizations but it's mostly true.
Properly fought though, a B&Z plane dictates the fight. As long as it stays fast and executes properly, they're mostly untouchable unless and until someone comes in above them.
So, while I enjoyed playing last night, I fear the limitations produced by B&Z may be a problem.
While it's probably anathema to the devotees, it might be better to enable a full RPS on both sides. I think it would make for better fights.
Just my .02, based on the idea that I think B&Z side vs Turner Side will get old pretty quick. I could be wrong.
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Well, the introduction of mid-late war U.S. planes should erode the B'n'Z advantage for the LW, shouldn't it?
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Originally posted by Gianlupo
Well, the introduction of mid-late war U.S. planes should erode the B'n'Z advantage for the LW, shouldn't it?
Yep, and what does that leave for the LW planes when they cannot turnfight nor B'n'Z? ;)
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Eventual defeat I would think.
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Exactly, Have.
I'll keep playing it for now as I think it's better than the fights in the MA.
I think that eventually something must change. For this to thrive I think players on both sides will want to have both the B&Z AND the Turnfite option available in the hangar.
It seems with the "historical" planesets one side or the other always has an advantage that dictates the fight.
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Originally posted by Gianlupo
Well, the introduction of mid-late war U.S. planes should erode the B'n'Z advantage for the LW, shouldn't it?
Waiting for 44 to see what happens when the RAF gets -
Spit XIV
Spit XVI
Tempest
XIV and Temp should be really interesting as people don't have to worry about losing perks.
Might get to see exactly what they can do.
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Originally posted by Toad
Exactly, Have.
I'll keep playing it for now as I think it's better than the fights in the MA.
I think that eventually something must change. For this to thrive I think players on both sides will want to have both the B&Z AND the Turnfite option available in the hangar.
It seems with the "historical" planesets one side or the other always has an advantage that dictates the fight.
I see your point (in this post and previous ones) Toad. But, this match-up of different styles with the BnZ Luftwaffies dominating will evolve during the course of the war. But it has quite a lot to do with "total immersion" as Mars mentioned.
I started this AvA "Tour" as a German and only switch sides when the #'s get out of hand. Right now we have the advantage with the 190A-5. But this will soon change (I'll stay German) as the Spit 9, 14, and 16 get involved. Not to mention the Tiffy, Tempest, Ponies and Jugs that will show up soon to. With these, there will be no more running for the 109s and 190s.
Might be frustrating for the Brits right now, but things will soon change. Heck...I hope that we Germans get out-numbered in '44 and '45 to give the feel of desperation.
There have also been great altitude fights. I know that this is the bane of some furballers' existence (having to climb for 10-15 minutes), but it's worth it to see some of these planes perform at their best altitudes.
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Originally posted by kamilyun
Might be frustrating for the Brits right now,
Frustration is the key. Who really wants to be a punching bag for anyone for very long?
Like I said, I'll stick with it a while as finding a decent fight in the MA is nigh on to impossible lately. You do get decent fights AvA but the frustration factor may prove to be a serious negative.
We should ask ourselves again: so why didn't the CT ever thrive for any long period?
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Also, I'm amazed at the performance of the A-5 when in it's proper environment with contemporary planes. It flies with impunity against the Hurri IIc and Spit V.
I don't think anyone can make the case that Luftwaffe planes are porked. MA style of play is just not conducive to their strengths as mid to hi-alt performers.
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Originally posted by Toad
Frustration is the key. Who really wants to be a punching bag for anyone for very long?
Like I said, I'll stick with it a while as finding a decent fight in the MA is nigh on to impossible lately. You do get decent fights AvA but the frustration factor may prove to be a serious negative.
We should ask ourselves again: so why didn't the CT ever thrive for any long period?
Well, I think the fact that the plane set changes every 3 days is good and the Brits have some good planes to look forward to.
The AvA just takes a slightly different mindset. It really does involve some emotion (can I say that? :) ) in that you really do feel the frustration and desparation of the Brits in the BoB. Outnumbered, out-classed, but hung on by the skin of their teeth. That has to be accepted and appreciated when choosing to fly for the Brits in the early war.
It will turn soon. Hopefully the Germans fields will be under vulch (that's how many 262s got killed, right?) and I'll get killed more often trying to land kills in a Ta152 or D9. But I accept that and know that that's just what happened in 44 and 45.
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Ultimately the game is about fun. This is the first time this setup has been run. The whole idea was to create the dissimilar matchups that actually occured IRL - if it stops being fun and people stop playing it, then changes will be made to the setup. And I'm sure something completely different will get run after this month as we'll all need a break from Spits and 109s and 190s. :)
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Originally posted by Toad
We should ask ourselves again: so why didn't the CT ever thrive for any long period?
Strat.
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I hope this great idea stays for forever, I can't wait to re-sub and dedicated practically 90% my AH life to AvA.
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Originally posted by Toad
Frustration is the key. Who really wants to be a punching bag for anyone for very long?
Like I said, I'll stick with it a while as finding a decent fight in the MA is nigh on to impossible lately. You do get decent fights AvA but the frustration factor may prove to be a serious negative.
We should ask ourselves again: so why didn't the CT ever thrive for any long period?
You really want to start the "why did the CT die" argument again? That horse has been dead a long time. Leave the poor thing alone.
There were too many reasons to list, and many of them have been corrected. Many more still are waiting. Apparently enough have been fixed to allow a group to enjoy the arena again. As long as we keep the baseline we have now, and can continue to improve the areas that need work, there is no reason why the AvA arena cannot be more popular than the CT ever was in AH1.
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RGR that BAT - For the record the nonsense was never targeted at you. You unfortunately got entangled in it and we couldn't risk blowing it's cover by telling you. None of us wanted you to get wrapped up in it, we all saw you as a friend and hoped you would have seen the humor and have laughed it off. A lot of us are hoping this will eventually happen.
bud.
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As to the TnB Vs the BnZ - Well I guess it is just pilot mentality. But for the majority Toad is right.
I often fly the LW as TnB as I have seen others do as well. I will start this way cause it is more fun for everyone, myself included. Of course when you run into an exceptional TnB pilot you are going to die after a great fight or you will need to extend and start a BnZ attack.
I do notice when the "I can only BnZ" or "I won't take any risks" crowd are in there the arena is no better than the MA. Luckly out of all the times I have been in the AVA the last two weeks, I only ran into this crowd early evening last night. You can always tell who they are cause even with the numbers thay are climbing to 15k rather than fighting.
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the nonsense i refer to is nothing to do with the moat. if you reread the post, its clear that, despite certain disapointments, i was as impressed and ammused by it as anyone.
to those who did consider me as friends i have never had a problem. some never did. mores the pity, they might be missing out :D
S! mars.
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Originally posted by Sable
Ultimately the game is about fun. This is the first time this setup has been run. The whole idea was to create the dissimilar matchups that actually occured IRL - if it stops being fun and people stop playing it, then changes will be made to the setup. And I'm sure something completely different will get run after this month as we'll all need a break from Spits and 109s and 190s. :)
Right. If you don't have fun in the AvA during "Sable's RPS" ;), try the MA or some of the special events that are run weekly.
However, after the ETO-RPS, I'll guess the setup will have 109's and 190's - but against La-5's and Yak's and the Lend-lease planes - IF we'll try the new terrain by Kanttori & BlauK (classic Fin/Rus setup but with a whole new map!). But the next setup hasn't been decided yet. :)
And while I'm replying here in this thread: the land grab is enabled, but there are only M3's available, and then there's the channel... The map will change to Rhine in the last half of 1944, I hope that the M3's will be disabled at that time..
I'm actually looking forward to when the Allies have some of the better planes (I've flown both sides now, but usually the Axis - since they've had the lower numbers and that's where my friends&/squadmates fly). I've learned more during the last 10 days in the AvA than I have during the last 2 years in MA... Which is a merit to all the pilots in the AvA. :)
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Originally posted by mars01
Name change had nothing to do with why there are more people there and everything to do with RPS. RPS is why I am there. The playing field is a bit more level. I am curious to see what happens at the end, when it goes back to most planes available. I'm not trying to start a fight with ya bat, but I don't agree with this one either.
I cant see the AvA getting away from the RPS. Wouldnt make any sense.
The "old CT" was great. The old AH 1 CT. The AH2 CT was a dead horse that wouldnt respond to the countless beatings we gave it.
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The AH2 CT was a dead horse that wouldnt respond to the countless beatings we gave it.
Whatever it was that made more people come in and play is not the point.
More people are playing in the CT so lets keep them in there.
I am all for the new ways so let's keep up the good work and maybe if it is at all possible can we get the Winter Fin-Rus map for a setup once.
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I just have to agree. The AvA is fantastic.
The fights are great. Good sportmanship. Fantatic plane matchups. Its a whole different ball game to fight axies vs allies then to fight a enemy that files the same planes as you and your wingman.
Ofcourse the Axies BnZ as they should, thats their advantage. But the awsome thing is that they aint timid. They are there to fight.
Whats great with the BoB map is that it doesnt need high number of players to generate good fights. As long as there is 10 people online there are good fights there.
For me when I feel like dogfighting there is now only one arena and thats the AvA. When I feel like Jaboing and taking bases I go to the MA, I do enjoy that as well.
Two distinctivly different experiences which is great as it gives AH much more veriaty.
WTG!!!
Tex
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Originally posted by TexMurphy
I just have to agree. The AvA is fantastic.
The fights are great. Good sportmanship. Fantatic plane matchups. Its a whole different ball game to fight axies vs allies then to fight a enemy that files the same planes as you and your wingman.
Ofcourse the Axies BnZ as they should, thats their advantage. But the awsome thing is that they aint timid. They are there to fight.
Whats great with the BoB map is that it doesnt need high number of players to generate good fights. As long as there is 10 people online there are good fights there.
For me when I feel like dogfighting there is now only one arena and thats the AvA. When I feel like Jaboing and taking bases I go to the MA, I do enjoy that as well.
Two distinctivly different experiences which is great as it gives AH much more veriaty.
WTG!!!
Tex
Yep most that fly in the AvA are there to fight. The game the game scorehorror types are still over in the MA.
And the whiner tend to remain in the MA and the super trash talkers are elsewhere as well.
It's NICE!!!!
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[size=10]Oh, I was wrong![/size]
^ The blank lines above are there so that you can position the above text in your browser window the way you want it, and then print it off to have framed to hang on your wall!
I'm only just posting here, partly because I was away when this thread was going on.
Yep, I am on record as saying that RPS would never happen in AH. Clearly I was wrong, but I've never been so delighted to be wrong! I owe hitech a lunch, but that would be difficult to organise (a long way for him to come) so I might just have to restart my account instead! What sort of lunch can be had for $14.95 in Grapevine?!
How's this new arena working out? It sounds like it would appeal to me, as indeed the CT did, before it became a mini MA. But an RPS would not appeal to Nopoop, and making an arena which more closely resembles the real WW2 would not appeal to Lazs, so I don't suppose those guys will be around....
...but I can see why. Nopoop, Lazs and myself were old WarBirds veterans. When the Axis v Allies thing was tried out there, nearly everyone thought it was going to be the best thing since sliced bread, myself included. It was, after all, the only time the entire subscribership migrated away from the MA, which itself became obsolete, despite various player initiatives to have it reinstated when the full extent of Axis v Allies suckage was realised, months later. But who would have thought that it would be a leading factor in the demise of the game? It wasn't the axis v. allies setup that sucked so much as the plane match ups. As in AH, not every plane type built and flown in WW2 was modelled in WB, so it was difficult to provide a balanced plane set. IIRC, for this reason some planes were introduced to the RPS ahead of their actual deployment in the WW2 chronology. In the early days, the 190A4 would appear on Day4 of a 21 day cycle. Good news for me, as I always sucked at TnB (I took a WB holiday on Days1-3 LOL), besides which the amount of ammo lost to netlag in WB would be proportional to the square of your geographical distance from the server. :mad: I needed manly cannon rounds! :) Or .50 cals at least...
Well then some wise arse came along and pointed out that the sequence of plane deployments was not historically accurate, and so this had to change. They were hell bent on realism, to the extent that some people forgot it was a game, and then it was no fun at all. The 190A4 no longer appeared on Day4 but came much later. At any one time in the RPS, one side would always have the upper hand, or the avion du jour as we knew it in Europe. The Americans knew it as an aircraft's day in the sun.
And this led to the other major problem with an RPS: Side switching. As soon as the axis had got their avion du jour, a whole swathe of scorepotatos would switch to that side so they could have the best plane. As soon as that plane got trumped by a new allied wonderplane, they'd all switch back. I campaigned vociferously for the sides to be locked at the start of a tour, but nothing happened until much later, when a small concession was made - the minimum time between side switches went from 15 mins to 1 hour.
There was a brief period of balance (2 days) when the Spit IX came out to rival the 190A4, but then it was allies all the way. By the end of the war, the allies had jabo bombers which, having released their bombs, became excellent fighters - F6F, F4U - and which could operate from the CV with 2x1000lb bombs. The best CV based jabo the axis had was the zeke, with a 50kg bomb.
So guess what happened? Time after time, the axis would get trounced in the last days of the tour. It just wasn't funny. The allies had heavy bombers that could operate at 25K (B17, B24); the axis had the ju88 which would wheeze and wallow at 12K, plus a few jap bombers with an unimpressive payload. One squad night, I flew an easymode™ P51D and scored 27 kills without even being pinged once - it really was that easy.
Will this new arena hold the interest of its user base? There is no doubt in my mind that the MAsses will want the best/easiest/fastest planes all the time, which is why the P51/La7/Spit usage was out of all proportion to the rest of the planeset when I was around. Will the sides be locked? If not, expect to see major side switching as each new plane comes out - unless matching planes are released into the RPS on the same day, which is not how it was in WW2, of course.
I'd like to try this out, and you'll all have fun, whupping my arse! But not just yet. For one thing, I want to give it a few weeks to see if its popularity holds. If not, then it would be toodle pip, again. I'm afraid I have no interest in what the MA had become last time I was there, c08/2004.
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Yup I love it aswell! As do my brother!
Like Wrag said, most super trash talkers stay in the MA which makes the AvA even better. Question is for how long they will stay out?