Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: 1K3 on January 31, 2006, 11:59:41 PM
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I think i just found the "Holly Grail" for Fw-190
Im not subrcribed yet but imo i think im "good enough" to fly the 190 against the top .0000000001 percent of players in AH:)
Fw-190 tactics: 190A-4 to D-9
ripped from http://www.airwarfare.com/tactics/tactics_fwtactics.htm
Tactics by Hunde_3.JG51 (Kyrule)
NOTE: These are edited so it applies to Aces High 2
The Basics
Use wingman and friendlies, I can't emphasize this enough. The 190 is NOT a lone wolf plane but is an excellent 4 vs. 4 (or more) plane. Often you can simply out-run pursuers and let your buddies pick them off of you. As long as energy is equal or to your advantage, speed and high speed handling will keep you alive. If you don't have advantage, work to at least even it out then 9disengage.
Always keep in mind that almost every plane will out-turn you in sustained turns, and almost every plane will out-climb you in sustained climbs. Never think you can out-turn someone, unless flying at very high speeds but this is more for defensive than offensive value. Never rely on climb either, with the Dora it is more acceptable.
If you do try to climb away, do so at higher speeds than in most planes. The 190A likes to climb at around 350 or so km/h, don't climb below that speed. Remember also that above 2,000m your climb will start to fall off even more, though speed will increase. The 190 seems to like it around 1,500m and below, and between 4,500m and 6,000m.
Gain altitude whenever you can. Engage with an advantage, disengage if you lose it or get jumped. Split-s works great as climbing will get you shot and other planes will out-turn you. Keep the fight at high speed where your plane handles as good as anyone's, if not better.
The Setup
Find your opponent first and stalk him. Don't fly straight at him as soon as you see him. Try to determine where he is heading and sneak in on him. Try to imagine what he sees and where his blind spots are. When diving in on him get as low as possible to stay out of sight, but don't sacrifice your speed advantage.
Know other planes strengths, where they are faster and where you are faster. For example, drag a Mustang to the deck or up to 5,000m or so, in between 1,000m and 4,000m (and above 6,500m) he will be stronger. Knowing where planes are stronger takes alot of time and testing, but it is very useful if you want to employ tactics properly, especially if you want to disengage.
When attacking an opponent do not follow unless they are making gentle turns. If you are lining him up and he banks hard, simply break off and climb away. He has now lost energy and you have increased your advantage. Try to force him to evade and bleed energy. Not great for Hollywood movies but very effective at gaining an advantage.
Use high yo-yo's when making high speed attacks at slower opponents. Make your attack, pull up sharply, flip over on your back, look straight up (down at your opponent), wait until he flies beneath you, then dive down on him again.
The kill
Fire at very close range, don't fire from far off and alert your opponent prematurely during your attack run. In some, more manoeuvrable planes you want to scare them and force them to manoeuvre, not in the 190. Be accurate.
Learn high speed gunnery, it is much different than TnB gunnery. Learn to anticipate more while your opponent is manoeuvring rather than following. I recommend setting up a QMB with a couple A-5's against a bunch of Hurricanes. This will teach you about gunnery at high speed against a slower opponent.
Use rudder corrections alot, it is part of high speed gunnery. If your opponent changes direction at the last moment you can kick your rudder at the last second and get a burst on him. This takes practice but with time it will be done unconsciously and will make you a much better shooter. And after awhile you will not even notice "the bar," (ammo counter) I swear.
like to trim the nose down a good bit from start, I fly the 190 at high speed more often than not and I don't need the nose pulling up on me, this can really effect your gunnery if not accounted for, especially flying at 600-700km/h.
Head-ons are acceptable in the FW-190A, maybe the only plane in the game where this is the case. You should come out the victor in a head-on attack because of your excellent firepower and engine durability. More importantly your opponent often will be less than willing to go head-on and will take evasive action, so you simply climb up and use his manoeuvre against him. When going head-on I usually aim slightly high because the bullets/rounds will drop and because I want to force him down or to the side. This is one case where it is good to fire from farther out, don't worry about wasting ammo you have plenty.
Et Cetera
Evasive manoeuvres can be very effective at high speed. You should be going fast anyway, but if not dive, jink, and gain speed. Severe manoeuvres when an opponent is behind you, even to the point of blackout as long as you are aware of angle the blackout is induced at, can be effective because if he wants to follow chances are he will blackout also. Try to ride the edge and not black-out, this takes experience. If blacked-out make subtle manoeuvres because you will often still have minor control of your aircraft.
I prefer to set convergence for cannons at 500m (475 yards), the rounds/bullets leave your aircraft at a much flatter angle than say at 200m, keeping them more level in your gunsight and making deflection shooting easier. At 200m your rounds actually leave the aircraft at a slight downward angle, you don't need four cannons to hit in the same spot anyway. 500m also gives you a bigger hitbox, or more "spread."
Look for the 109's. Focke Wulfs and 109's compliment each-other well. These two planes have different fighting styles and strengths and combining the two can only make both of you more effective.
190D's contemporaties
D9 vs P51.
This is going to be a really tight match here. Both planes had nearly identical extreme edge performance during heavy manoeuvring and they seem to be very closely matched. The mustang has an edge in turn rate still I think but now the D9 has an advantage in acceleration, which is very useful during E fighting at close ranges. This matches up very well with many of the historical accounts. My money is on the D9 because of the superior acceleration, and maybe because I simply fly it more. The main thing here is to avoid sustained turns with the mustang and try to keep the fight in the vertical, though not necessarily by looping mind you. Don't forget the scissors, when all else fails you can usually force an overshoot or horizontal parity if you fly it right.
D9 vs La7.
Here's another tough match with the advantage overall being with the La7, unless the D9 pilot is very very good. The skill level to fly both planes is markedly different, so the average D9 jock is going to be outclassed by the average La7 jock simply because the La7 is much more of a point and shoot aircraft. This is where it's important to be really familiar with the D9 and to know it's fine edge, because the only way to beat an La7 is to either BnZ with altitude advantage, or E fight him on that exact fine edge. The La7 climb rate should be the same as the D9, E retention is going to be better, La7 turn rate obviously extremely better and SL speed is nearly the same so outrunning the La is going to be risky at close range. The only definite advantage the D9 has over the La7 is dive speed (and hopefully now dive acceleration) but while diving is great, by itself it doesn't win fights. A smart La7 driver is going to break off his dive before you do and hover at a higher altitude, so use caution before hitting lightspeed in the dive. You might be able to get down faster, but he might be waiting for you to come back up.
D9 vs Spitfire
This one is finally fixed and imho is no contest, the D9 is going to outfly the Spit (flame away! :)). The easy way to defeat the spit is to stay faster and stay in the vertical...it's not a strong vertical dogfighter anymore and this is where the D9 is going to shine. Naturally avoid turning with the spit unless at very high speeds but even then I prefer to spend the energy climbing rather than burn it turning around. Think not only of relative E state when flying the 190, but also of total E state...if relative E states aren't going to change, then make moves that help your total E state instead of lowering it. You will stay the same with your enemy, but increase your E state and safety margin compared to everyone else. Sustained climb rate is in the D9's favour, but again remember the steep-climb, this is particularly effective against the spitfire. Be cautioned way up high though...the spit really did have a great high altitude climb and the D9 is still not the best high altitude performer.
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More useful info
The only thing I would add is that when I see tracers I immediately apply full negative elevator (fully press forward on the stick). The 190 has good elevator response and this is usually enough to throw off your attackers aim long enough for you to perform your half-roll and dive. I like to very gently turn/jink during my dives just in case he is following close. The dive followed by a reversal (another half-roll and pull-out) is effective. Your only concern with this manoeuvre is that you have sufficient altitude and that you don't perform your reversal so late as to build speed past your critical limit.
Another manoeuvre that can be effective when you don't have as much altitude and speed but have clouds nearby is a steep diving, fairly tight corkscrew. It is extremely difficult for anyone to hit you when performing this manoeuvre but you have to be careful with the stick. Again, this is effective when clouds are nearby, when you pull out of the corkscrew you may be vulnerable but the idea is to finish the manoeuvre in a cloud or very close to one.
Also, if you have a plane that you cannot shake that handles as well as yours at most speeds (P-51, P-47, etc), even after you performed other manoeuvres, you can try a harsh, desperate manoeuvre that induces blackout. Just remember that even when blacked out you often still have minor control on your plane so don't just sit there, use gentle inputs on the stick to keep from being a static target. Also, be very aware of the angle that you induce blackout and where this will lead, you don't want to blackout when descending at anything but the slightest of angle. This is dangerous and you need alot of speed but if someone is stuck to you then it might be enough to save you or buy you time as they simply cannot follow without blacking out themselves. It sounds desperate, and it is, but it should not be
It is best to shoot then climb/extend away. Don't follow him into turns unless they are very gentle. P-47 pilots often adhered to the rule that any turn greater than 90 degrees was unacceptable, and this holds true for the 190 as well IMO. I find a straight zoom climb followed by a Hammerhead preferable to a gentle combat/climbing turn unless there are others about who you do not hold a significant energy advantage over. In this case a longer extension/climb followed by a combat turn is probably your best bet.
For the reasons I mentioned above it is easy to see why the 190 is a(n) excellent plane to use when you have a wingman or wingmen, but it is not the best 1 vs. 1 plane unless you have a decent altitude/energy advantage. The utilisation of the hammerhead can be useful in low combatant encounters as well. If all else fails the 190 has excellent escapability with its great high speed handling, roll-rate, and speed at sea-level. If jumped by an opponent with a severe advantage a split-s into a dive works well as he will bleed his energy turning around (or require a much larger area/radius to perform his split-s), and if he is stuck to your 6 o'clock a split-s, into a jinking high speed dive, followed by another split-s (or variations of it) can be helpful in eliminating his advantage and supplying you with the needed space to simply out-run your opponent. Never simply fly straight in these manoeuvres, keep moving but do it gently so you do not bleed speed while performing them but rather you build it. Don't be predictable. If someone is behind you, the last thing you want to do is climb (presenting an easy target), and most planes will out-turn you, so your best bet is to dive/split-s and build speed quickly where you can use your high speed handling, roll-rate, and level speed to your advantage.
As for diving in on opponent I prefer a fast, fairly sharp dive to a point slightly above and directly behind my opponent, from there I use a shallow dive to attack point. I dive sharply at the beginning so I can get down and out of sight. If you use a shallow dive and remain high above him you will likely be spotted.
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Not a flame but - As its the D9 you must be talking about 1944.
I don't think the IX will get much use (if any) once the XVI/XIV becomes available in 1944.
At alt the XIV is far superior to the D9
Up to about 20k the XVI has around the 3rd best climbrate in the game, behind the K4 and the XIV.
I think someone else worked out it has the 2nd best acceleration, La7 only just shading it.
Wouldn't advise a climb unless the D9 has a lot more 'e' than the XVI, and wouldnt advise a climb against a Spit XIV period.
Best bet is to stay fast, but then you have to deal with the Tempests (fastest prop plane in the game).
A good 1944 RAF flight will hopefully have mix of XIV, XVI and Tempests.
Pref XIV's top cover, Temps around 18k initally, XVI slightly below them.
XIV to deal with high alt cons, Temps to chase down and turn cons, XVI to mop up.
Personally the only plane I will be worried about is the 262, but as long as I see him 1st, I'll be OK.
1944 going to be very interesting.
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"1944 going to be very interesting."
Oh yes, especially for those flying 190A8s. :aok
-C+
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I think i just found the "Holly Grail" for Fw-190
No quite those 'tips' are for IL2 and maybe about 5 or 6 versions ago...
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Sounds like timidity to me. The 190's can be flow much more aggressively than that and still survive.
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You should come out the victor in a head-on attack because of your excellent firepower and engine durability
Although I'm not used in HO this characteristic seems a bit lessened in AH2;
IMHO the FW in AH2 is a big radiator with wings. Every single hit is constantly attracted by the radiator. One ping and your oil begin to leak down; and I can accept this in HO, but it seems to happen even with enemy firing at your six.
Maybe its only a luftwhiner's impression?:rolleyes:
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Fw-190 tips (a must read if you want to survive 1944-1945...)
Engage when the enemy aint looking, flee when the enemy is looking.
Tex.
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no offense but if you fly like that in the AvA you will never get any kills and it will be no fun fighting you. the 190s should hold their own if flown to it's advantages. even against the highly overmodelled woobie planes.
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Originally posted by Grits
Sounds like timidity to me. The 190's can be flow much more aggressively than that and still survive.
yup, it can be flown more aggresively.
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A very important element to success is suprice... Ive learned that in my Jug... I fly it extreamly agressivly and I engage in both turn and E fights with it... people dont take my commitment to the fight seriously and hence under estimate me...
Imho flying the 190 agressivly would be very successfull as 95% of your enemies will expect you to BnZ and flee if it gets remotely hot. Hence my sarcastic comment a few posts up.
Tex
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Originally posted by Grits
Sounds like timidity to me. The 190's can be flow much more aggressively than that and still survive.
(Looks sideways at Grits.)
- oldman
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Originally posted by Oldman731
(Looks sideways at Grits.)
Well...except for the A-8. :)
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Originally posted by Grits
Well...except for the A-8. :)
.squelch grits :)
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LMAO, I saw Soda was the last to post in this thread and I already knew what you posted. :)
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Originally posted by IK3
Im not subrcribed yet but imo i think im "good enough" to fly the 190 against the top .0000000001 percent of players in AH:)
IK3, son, don't take offence at what I'm about to say... I just want you to avoid a burning disappointment when you'll subscribe... raise that percentage... raise it a lot!
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Most of that advice can be applied to any fighter in the ETO, you fly to survive, as part of a team. Dont climb in an area with enemy fighters above you, extend out first, dont get caught in low level furballs unless you want to die, and keep your attacks to single passes. Dont follow an e/a down to the deck just to get a kill. Keep enough alt for an escape if things go badly. Learn that real victory is returning to base, its not about bragging about how many kills you got. Guys that fly with the intention of being ace of aces in the 1st 10 missions are going to be getting letters to their virtual loved ones "we regret to inform you..."
A lot of the talk always quickly degenerates to "1 vs 1" scenarios. CT isnt the DA, so I wouldnt put too much stock in most of that stuff. If you get shot, more than likely you didnt even see it coming.
As far as HOing, I would not advise that as a habit in any fighter. The 1st time it goes badly your "avatar" will be KIA or a out with a bad wound. Its not like the Arenas where you can just say "oh well" and re roll < which is what HOers do.
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Well said Squire,you should charge for advice like that.:aok