Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Mugzeee on February 01, 2006, 11:52:00 AM
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How common was it for WWII fighters to loadout without tracer rounds?
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not sure if they did or not, or how usual it was, I do know that they only put a tracer round about every 10 rounds or so, ( not exactly sure on 10 but it's more spacing then we have in the game ) I think AH2 uses 1 tracer every 2-3 rounds or so
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From what I have read it was not common to go without tracers. However, I did read about a pilot in the Pacific theatre that didn't use them as he found the zero would turn once they saw the tracers so removing them made the nme pilot think you were shooting off.
Cheers,
ICU2
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Originally posted by Iceman24
not sure if they did or not, or how usual it was, I do know that they only put a tracer round about every 10 rounds or so, ( not exactly sure on 10 but it's more spacing then we have in the game ) I think AH2 uses 1 tracer every 2-3 rounds or so
AH uses the standard 1 every 5 rounds.
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There's a quote from a WWII pilot in Shaw's book that says something to the effect of "We were ordered to remove all tracer ammo and our results were amazing." So it would seem that at least some squadrons went without tracer ammo. Also, I recall reading that some aircraft would only put tracer rounds in the last 10 percent of their ammo - so that they would know when they were almost out... a practice that was stopped once the enemy figured out what it meant.
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Standard ammo load was a tracer every 5th round.
That changed in later war where they almost always fired API which negated the need for the tracer.
I believe standard load out early war was AP AP Incd Incd Tracer.
I have talked to several pilots though that have said they "convinced" there armourer to remove the tracers as the tracers gave them away if they missed. It's all moot anyways though if the enemy sees the muzzle flashes, but for sneaking up, a miss meant evasion by the tracers alert.
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From what I read, tracers also have a different weight and ballistics when compared the the AP or Incd round. If you relied on tracers to find your target (unless it was close range) you'd still miss with the rounds that caused the real damage.
This is one thing AH models real well... remove tracers, after a 2 week adjustment period you'll have dramtic, positive results.
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Originally posted by Delirium
From what I read, tracers also have a different weight and ballistics when compared the the AP or Incd round. If you relied on tracers to find your target (unless it was close range) you'd still miss with the rounds that caused the real damage.
This is one thing AH models real well... remove tracers, after a 2 week adjustment period you'll have dramtic, positive results.
Could it be that some of the positive result is in part due the the fact that we get a few more moments of firing time, before the bandit gets more agressively evasive?
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Del,
The tracers we use today infantry weapons are real rounds, they just have a coating on them that causes them to "glow" Glow is the only word I can comeup with. Were WW2 rounds different? Tracers are great for "walking your fire" and incidently letting stupid guys like me see that I was going to run into the path of fire during a live fire exercise.
I do not use tracers to aim , I like they way they look so I keep em on, and they get guys in LaLas to turn when they are running 800 out from me:D
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More info..
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=94383&highlight=lynch
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Excuse my ignorance here, or if this has been answered somewhere else. But, does an Aces High virtual tracer-round do damage when it strikes a virtual plane. Eg - do all rounds fired (from the same gun/type) do the same damage even if it was a tracer, =OR= does an AH virtual tracer not much appreaciable damage???
So if it didnt have the samer damage factor (Df), and if as people point out 1 in 5 rounds are tracers, is your bullet-stream on average 20% less effective than with the tracer rounds turned off??
Maybe this accounts for part of the improvement people see in AH when they select that option?
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excellent thread! i look forward to further info...as for ah with every angle covered in viewpoint results are mixed..ive had equal success with them on or off depending on the plane and how i choose to fly..im a terrible shot though as i am a codger who refuses to wear glasses...
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Originally posted by Bodhi
the tracers gave them away if they missed.
Thats why I don't use them. The main reason anyhow.
I've also noticed that since I stopped loading tracers my hit percentage has gone from around 6% up to about 10%...
When I load tracer because I'm filming for a video or something my hit numbers go right back down to 6% again....
It takes some getting used to, but I'll never go back to tracers (except for films, so you can see when I'm shooting)
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Originally posted by Mugzeee
Could it be that some of the positive result is in part due the the fact that we get a few more moments of firing time, before the bandit gets more agressively evasive?
Good point Mugzee.
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Originally posted by ICU2
From what I have read it was not common to go without tracers. However, I did read about a pilot in the Pacific theatre that didn't use them as he found the zero would turn once they saw the tracers so removing them made the nme pilot think you were shooting off.
Cheers,
ICU2
good post, but im pretty sure they *were* shooting off target with tracers or not if the enemy pilot didnt feel the hits on the a/c.
do you mean the enemy pilot would not be laerted when you were shooting off but coming quite close to hitting?
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I happen to be reading a book about Francis Garbreski right now. He stated that the tracer rounds gave a false trajectory many times because the material that burned seperated from the actual round. In the book he states he ordered his armourer to load only the last 100 rounds or so in each gun as tracer. That was just to warn him he was low on ammo.
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Having your tracers on or off is neither here, nor there as far as sneaking up on your opponent and "getting a few more moments firing time" unless your target isnt listening to the game sounds.
If you sneak up and get me it isnt because you had your tracers off. it is because I either had tunnelvision in whatever it was I was doing, or I was afk, or I didnt have my headset on.
Because tracers or no tracers, unless your firing long range,(600+) I can hear your engine and your guns firing and usually I can hear your engine long before I hear your guns firing.
Reminds me of the scene in the original movie "Rollerball" When James Cahn is talking to his new team mates and he tells one guy who thinks he's a hotshot to skate around and try to take him out.
so the Cahn is talking while the guy is skating around and figures hes gonna sneak up on cahn and instead ends up on his arse.
and Cahn says
"Oh and ears, they're pretty important too"
Tracers, while may help in your gunnery. will not help you sneak up on someone if they are paying attention to not only what they see in the game, but what they hear in the game.
You would be much more effecting sneaking up on someone by diving down with your engine off and waiting till 200 out to fire then you are turning tracers off
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With tracers on, I find myself watching the tracers and almost trying to match the stream with the target -- i almost dont see the gunsight eeven when I'm trying to. Since I've had them off, I am subconciously watching the reticule and actually aiming . I've seen a big jump in hit%, and my first burst is more on target too.
Dred, you make a good point -- but I dont think most people have adjusted their sounds as extremely as you have. I turn engine down, and I'll hear enemies sometimes -- but usally they're too far into range for the sound to ahve been the give away. Less savvy players may not have adjusted sounds from default at all -- and those are the ones most likely to be surprised anyway, since SA is one of the harder things to pick up. So, tracers off definitely gives more time to adjust aim in general, at least in my experience.And, with a half to 1 sec burst kill time,. even a little dealy in reaction can give a kill -- tracesr are much more attention grabbing than an airplane sound...
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I love traces because you can see why you missed a easy target..did you ever not use tracers and think how in the world did I miss that guy!!
The other night I had traces on and missed a guy and knew why I missed him...compared to not having them on and pulling my hair out thinking how did I miss him!!(i.e. he cheats thats why I missed him..nott):O
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My misses are from insufficient lead 90% of the time...its usually a prtty good guess even with tracers off.
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I can't hear engines at all, unless they're inside d100 in a HO/flyby (friendly or enemy). They just make no sound. Often folks don't make gun noises either unless very close. I only notice these on near-misses (where I'm almost shot down, or they are). Other times they are not audible to me.
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tracers off is great for taking a long shot like D800 with a 38 or a 110 or something, allot of times a la7 that is D800 in front will just keep steady and try an extend thats when you pop him. I've also noticed that if you turn your tracers on, planes looking out there 6 view can see your stream and almost maneuver around it... Tracers also mess up my view of the target, when I have them on I can focus on an actual piece of the plane even while firing I can still see it... My accuracy actually drops just a little when I turn them off, but my k/d ratio go's way up, and I seem to do an all around better job of shooting. I leave em off, works really really well in field guns :)
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Actually the only sounds I have adjusted are the ones in the 262 cause I find the airflow noise in that gives me an ear ache in both ears and in a tank so I can hear my engine better.
Other then that the sounds are as they came
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Having your tracers on or off is neither here, nor there as far as sneaking up on your opponent and "getting a few more moments firing time" unless your target isnt listening to the game sounds.
If you sneak up and get me it isnt because you had your tracers off. it is because I either had tunnelvision in whatever it was I was doing, or I was afk, or I didnt have my headset on.
Because tracers or no tracers, unless your firing long range,(600+) I can hear your engine and your guns firing and usually I can hear your engine long before I hear your guns firing.
Reminds me of the scene in the original movie "Rollerball" When James Cahn is talking to his new team mates and he tells one guy who thinks he's a hotshot to skate around and try to take him out.
so the Cahn is talking while the guy is skating around and figures hes gonna sneak up on cahn and instead ends up on his arse.
and Cahn says
"Oh and ears, they're pretty important too"
Tracers, while may help in your gunnery. will not help you sneak up on someone if they are paying attention to not only what they see in the game, but what they hear in the game.
You would be much more effecting sneaking up on someone by diving down with your engine off and waiting till 200 out to fire then you are turning tracers off
I should have worded it differently.
This is you dread. But you cant speak for the countless players that i have shot down do to the fact that the didnt start evading right away because they wasnt paying attention and didnt realize anyone was shooting at them untill it was too late. No it wont help you "Sneak" up..but in my own experience it has caused them to hold still just for a few more fractions of a seconds longer than if i was flinging fireworks around them. I know i have gotten more kills since not using tracers..and my hit percentile will prolly go up due to the nme being a more steady target.
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Originally posted by Kaw1000
I love traces because you can see why you missed a easy target..did you ever not use tracers and think how in the world did I miss that guy!!
The other night I had traces on and missed a guy and knew why I missed him...compared to not having them on and pulling my hair out thinking how did I miss him!!(i.e. he cheats thats why I missed him..nott):O
Kind of a built in anger management devise eh KAW? :)
I like your thinking.
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Originally posted by Iceman24
tracers off is great for taking a long shot like D800 with a 38 or a 110 or something, allot of times a la7 that is D800 in front will just keep steady and try an extend thats when you pop him. I've also noticed that if you turn your tracers on, planes looking out there 6 view can see your stream and almost maneuver around it... Tracers also mess up my view of the target, when I have them on I can focus on an actual piece of the plane even while firing I can still see it... My accuracy actually drops just a little when I turn them off, but my k/d ratio go's way up, and I seem to do an all around better job of shooting. I leave em off, works really really well in field guns :)
I think you are in the majority here Ice. ;)
This is the phenom of "My aim is better with tracers off syndrome" I dont think the aim is any better..i just think the end result is better. Less evasive = more hits= more kills= better K/D= Gamey! :D....i like it