Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on September 08, 2000, 02:20:00 PM
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(http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/Blaming_Guns.jpg)
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With apologies to Jeff Foxworthy!
You MAY be a Democrat IF...
...you're more worried about guns in the hands of law-abiding American citzens than U.S. nuclear secrets in the hands of the Chinese.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Good one Toad
Do your part, vote 'em out !!
Eagler
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good one, Rip (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Is this your van?
[This message has been edited by mietla (edited 09-14-2000).]
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As someone looking in from the outside:
What is the problem with you guys? Don't you think the proliferation of guns in your society has something to do with your high murder rate? I've heard arguments about self-protection, protecting your children etc etc, but because guns are so common in the states, people have begun to accept them. Crminals routinely use them. In Britain, use of firearms is frowned upon by the crim. fraternity; especially if used against our unarmed police.
I can understand people having a hunting rifle, thats fair enough - but why all the hand guns? It's sick.
And the truck sticker is the most inane, outright stupid thing I've seen for a long time (and I watch Jerry Springer).
[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 09-16-2000).]
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Unfortunately, for many Americans it's a matter of not seeing the forest for the trees. Guns will remain an American addiction for many years to come.
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Originally posted by Dowding:
What is the problem with you guys? Don't you think the proliferation of guns in your society has something to do with your high murder rate? [This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 09-16-2000).]
IMHO, the problem is that we simply don't punish violent criminals in the way they deserve. Recent news highlighted that about 45% of criminals imprisioned in Tennessee (just a random example) last year were REPEAT OFFENDERS.
Today the local headlines are full of a rape/attempted murder case where the victim survived despite a slashed juglar vein. The perpetrator had been PREVIOUSLY convicted of rape and paroled. Now he's back in the slammer and they are trying for a 30 year sentence.
BZZZZZZZZZZT! Wrong answer! He lost his turn on the wheel of life, in my book. Try again next time! The human gene pool is full to overflowing; we wouldn't miss him a bit.
It really isn't the guns. Guns are just a tool. Far, far more are used for sporting recreational purposes than are used for crime.
We just can't bring ourselves to believe that PEOPLE can be bad...it must be some inanimate object that made them do it.
Barf!
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So atomic weapons are fine for personal use too?
Inanimate objects, our steely friends that go boom.
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Originally posted by Pongo:
So atomic weapons are fine for personal use too?
Inanimate objects, our steely friends that go boom.
pongo,
Don't worry. The US will still protect your country. Canada the government dedicated to schizophrenia. Linked to the British Crown yet fights amongst themselves about speaking French. (http://smilecwm.tripod.com/cwm/eek2.gif) (http://smilecwm.tripod.com/cwm/silly.gif) (http://smilecwm.tripod.com/net/ukliam2.gif)
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Dont you worry. The guns your teenagers kill eachother with dont do anything to defend my country.
Your country couldnt stop slavery for 100 years for political reasons. Couldnt protect the civil rights of a big chunk of your population for another 100 for the same reason. Now you cant do any thing about the rediculous proliferation of guns for exactly the same reason.
Please forgive us for having two languages for the same reason. Alot of our voters like French. Let em have it.
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I saw Canadian Bacon! You canucks will be the reason for the US's down fall! You already had John Candy assainated!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
- Jig
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John was a great Canuck patriot. But his loss was not in vain. He was just part of the first wave...We will not stop till we have given Americans a scence of humor!
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Originally posted by Pongo:
So atomic weapons are fine for personal use too?
Inanimate objects, our steely friends that go boom.
No, Pongo, you overlook the obvious.
Atomic weapons are tools, just like a hammer or a handgun. They can be used correctly or incorrectly.
Fortunately for us all, they have essentially made "total war" (as a technical term) a thing of the past. (Let us pray.)
They are neither good nor bad in and of themselves. Their use by man is what determines their resulting nature.
That is what all the liberal arguments for or against anything seem to center on.
It's not MAN that is good or bad, but the environment he lives in or the tools he picks up that determine man's nature.
Hogwash.
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Dowding there's a reason the people who founded my country left your country. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I don't want or need people telling me "what's fair" for me to own.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 09-17-2000).]
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Well said, funked.
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Dowding,
keep your socialist disease to yourself please. We do not need it here, thank you very much.
BTW, if you are wondering about my "credentials" on socialism, I lived it for most of my life and saw it first hand. I'll take Black Plague any day of the week instead.
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mietla
Heh, you capitalistic exploiting opressing pigdog!
Ya know, capitalism and socialism aren't mutually exclusive.
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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime
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Originally posted by StSanta:
mietla
Ya know, capitalism and socialism aren't mutually exclusive.
Oh yes they are. Capitalism means a personal freedom and prosperity, socialism and or communism (don't tell me you can stop at the socialism) means a destruction of a nation for decades.
You let the government to do "the good", and you can kiss you freedom goodbye. It tears me apart to see the Good Old US of A to slowly turn commie.
Don't get me going on that.
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You let the government to do "the good", and you can kiss you freedom goodbye. It tears me apart to see the Good Old US of A to slowly turn commie.
Don't get me going on that.[/B]
Oh yeah Brother, preach it! <S>
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Originally posted by StSanta:
mietla
Heh, you capitalistic exploiting opressing pigdog!
And you know something StSanta, nothing feels better that oppressing some poor guy before breakfast. Try it sometime, you'll like it.
I just love the Capitalism and my ability to oppress people left and right.
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Britain might have changed just a little in 300 years. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Britain founded your little country anyway, back when we had one of the largest empires on Earth. People shouldn't be disparaging of their roots, anyway. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
And besides we gave democracy a foothold in modern government (for our sins). And that's a word you americans a quite liberal with. Oh, and no country can really claim to be whiter than white - to do so is pure, unadulterated naivety. America has done some pretty nasty things in the past, on a par with anything you might level at us brits. I don't want to go into that - its pointless.
BTW - by conforming to your country's laws you are already being 'told what to do' surely?
Socialist disease? Jeez, you obviously align yourself with the McCarthy school of thought, mietla. Nationalism has had some pretty horrific effects too you know (and continues to). If you are from a former Eastern Bloc country - sure that was a terrible situation, no-one can credibly deny that. But look at how blacks were (openly) treated in America just 30 years ago. I think to a black person in Birmingham, Alabama in the 60s, Black Death would be a more attractive alternative too.
America turning commie? Socialism leads to communism? Thats utter crap and you know it!!!! It's comparable to saying than patriotism leads to nationalism which leads to faschism. Patriotism is something that America is very proud of and has been since its inception - but this hasn't led to fascism. Or has it, you tell me?
You should be more afraid of big business and the grip it has over government - when money becomes more important than anything democracy hold dear.
I hope your last comment is a (breath-takingly unfunny) joke mietla. Or do you agree with oppressing minorities? What are your thoughts on the black rights movement? Just a bunch of jumped up cupcakes, eh?
Oh, and well said StSanta. Well, kinda. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 09-18-2000).]
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Originally posted by Dowding:
You should be more afraid of big business and the grip it has over government - when money becomes more important than anything democracy hold dear.
The government is what I'm afraid of. Whatever you say about the big business, they can't force you to buy their stuff, the government can. They can't set an arbitrary price, the government can. They can't away take half of your income, the government can. They can't put you in jail if you refuse, the governmant can.
I just boggles my mind when people are willing to give the government a power to control the "big business".
Or do you agree with oppressing minorities? What are your thoughts on the black rights movement? Just a bunch of jumped up cupcakes, eh?
[/b]
Why did you think it was appropriate to bring racism here? Very typical for a leftie, out of arguments, call the opponent a bigot, a racist, a gay hater, or the best one "close minded".
I do not look at people at black and white (neither does our Constitution).
[This message has been edited by mietla (edited 09-18-2000).]
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Originally posted by mietla:
I just love the Capitalism and my ability to oppress people left and right.
YOU did right this? And what is racism is if not a form of oppression? Or is one form of oppression more acceptable than another? Please tell me, I really want to know.
You're right, big business doesn't put you in jail. But it does give politicians 'incentives' to do its bidding - it has massive control over our lives - getting legislation passed for its own good. Its not as simple as people buying products - they control so much in our lives.
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If you want less of it....tax it.
If you want more of it....subsidize it.
If you want it to be totally ineffective and unworkable...let government do it.
If you want it to work...let somebody make a profit doing it in a competitive market place.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by Dowding:
YOU did right this? And what is racism is if not a form of oppression?
I said nothing about race. I was being sarcastic, and I was referring to the oppresion of a common guy the the "capitalist system" mentioned by StSanta.
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Sorry, perhaps I mis-understood then - what you wrote wasn't too clear.
Racism is a form of oppression, especially when institutionalized.
[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 09-18-2000).]
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Originally posted by Dowding:
Racism is a form of oppression, especially when institutionalized.
I agree. And it is sad that our government keeps making and enforcing racist laws.
[This message has been edited by mietla (edited 09-18-2000).]
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Good. I misunderstood what you are saying, which is easy to do when you can't get instant clarification. Which laws are racist?
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I can think of one law that is not racist but rather discrimenation, although its a state-by-state law.
That would be Gov't forcing employers to hire employees NOT based on whether they can perform the job well, or whether they are qualified, but rather on the color of their skin. That one still makes me shrug.
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Originally posted by Dowding:
Good. I misunderstood what you are saying, which is easy to do when you can't get instant clarification. Which laws are racist?
So called affirmative action for instance. As a matter of fact any law that enumerates people by the color of their skin is racist by definition. All laws should be by a definition applicable to all citizens, ragardless of their attributes. Enumeration is redundant and exclusive.
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Originally posted by Dowding:
Britain might have changed just a little in 300 years. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Britain founded your little country anyway, back when we had one of the largest empires on Earth. People shouldn't be disparaging of their roots, anyway. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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It seems to me the US was founded by the people who LEFT your country both by force and choice. Lets not EVEN think about Australia shall we. And BTW we did it WITHOUT your permission too. Seems your country objected and LOST.
Yep and you very well oppressed the Majority population of India, other countries in the far and middle east, not to mention Ireland and Scotland. The advantages you brought to those poor peoples with your weapons and military were simply so wonderful you had to spread it around even if it killed them.
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And besides we gave democracy a foothold in modern government (for our sins). And that's a word you americans a quite liberal with. Oh, and no country can really claim to be whiter than white - to do so is pure, unadulterated naivety. America has done some pretty nasty things in the past, on a par with anything you might level at us brits. I don't want to go into that - its pointless. [/b]
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Aren't you a bit behind on releasing some terrorists or some such stuff. Don't you have a few murderers left in prison or have you turned them all loose yet? Perhaps another massacre of mourners in a cemetary will provide some more "victims" of British society that can be released from custody. How about that poor aged gentleman serving a life term in your prison for defending himself from burglars that were IN HIS HOUSE. We won't EVEN mention the Crusades and the slaughter of those nasty heathens will we.
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BTW - by conforming to your country's laws you are already being 'told what to do' surely? [/b]
OUR country governs with the CONSENT of the governed. We started out that way. We did not have to hold the KING up and by FORCE of weapons cause the government to recognise our rights. BTW wasn't posession of waepons outlawed for the general population at the time of the Magna Carta?
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Socialist disease? Jeez, you obviously align yourself with the McCarthy school of thought, mietla. Nationalism has had some pretty horrific effects too you know (and continues to). If you are from a former Eastern Bloc country - sure that was a terrible situation, no-one can credibly deny that. But look at how blacks were (openly) treated in America just 30 years ago. I think to a black person in Birmingham, Alabama in the 60s, Black Death would be a more attractive alternative too.[/b]
You know, I don't recall seeing any blacks in photos of your parlaiment lately but I know you have a segment of your population that IS black. I recall seeing a documentary on blacks in England. They felt oppression there too. It seems it wasn't quite as out in the open there as it WAS here but I haven't seen any moves by your government to make sure all peoples have equal rights there. Unless of course you call the forcefull governing of Ireland and Scotland spreading equal rights around British style. Wasn't that based on some such trivial thing like religion or something????
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America turning commie? Socialism leads to communism? Thats utter crap and you know it!!!! It's comparable to saying than patriotism leads to nationalism which leads to faschism. Patriotism is something that America is very proud of and has been since its inception - but this hasn't led to fascism. Or has it, you tell me? [/b]
The funny thing about several of the socialist organizations that are in the US. They seem to have as a main tenent the overthrow of the ELECTED government of the US. That seems to make them a little bit of a threat to me.
Yes patriotism IS a strength of the US. It can also be a detriment. There have been many who avowed patriotism and freedom then used the same breath to deny others their liberty. They want to be more free than others I suppose. Perhaps like the "royals" in your country seem to have more priveledges than do the "common" folks there. Now they are special by sonmething called "divine right" correct?
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You should be more afraid of big business and the grip it has over government - when money becomes more important than anything democracy hold dear. [/b]
Now tell me about this petroleum problem the oil companies have in Britain right now. You say the country just about ground to a halt??? Is that not an example of business power in Britain????? Just who IS in charge there? BP??? Texaco????
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I hope your last comment is a (breath-takingly unfunny) joke mietla. Or do you agree with oppressing minorities? What are your thoughts on the black rights movement? Just a bunch of jumped up cupcakes, eh? [/b]
Here's a clue Dowding. IT WAS SARCASM. Duh.
Tell me again how the "empire" was so great and that it did it all while respecting the rights of the native people in the area. Oh and by the way, I suppose you are going to tell me Britain did NOT profit from buying slaves in Africa, sailing slave ships and selling slaves. I think most of the ancestors of the blacks in this country were transported here in "good British Ships" were they not? This doesn't even mention the press ships where "good British subjects" "enlisted volunteer sailors" in American ports and on the high seas. Ordinarily that MIGHT be considered kidnapping and piracy but not if done by the "crown" right?
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Oh, and well said StSanta. Well, kinda. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) [/b]
StSanta is welcome to his opinion, it has no bearing on reality but he IS welcome to it. He can take it out and play with it all he wants. It is merely noise and we recognise it as SARCASM.
Please Dowding, don't throw stones, you'll break all the glass in the walls of your house.
To others in the UK, I submit my apology for what you MAY have construed as an attack on your country. I do not dislike the UK. I just dislike UK subjects who feel they were given some right to criticise other countries for the same or lesser problems they themselves have.
Mav
[This message has been edited by Maverick (edited 09-18-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Maverick (edited 09-18-2000).]
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Looking back on my post I can see how it could be taken the wrong way. In your anger you seem to have overlooked one of the comments I made in my post - a quite deliberate comment to avoid someone replying in the way you did.
It concerns the 'whiter than white' and the British doing things comparable to anything the US has done. What part of that didn't you understand? I was in no way saying that Britain was superior to America or that I live in some kind of Utopia. I don't think either things are true. Sure, Britain did some terrible things in the past that are now shameful, BUT SO DID THE US. My point was that it was infact POINTLESS to compare the past actions of countries and come out with a 'winner' in the high moral stakes. It is impossible to do that objectively.
Some of the things in your post make my blood boil at the ignorance you show, especially in relation to what I had written (which I thought made my thoughts clear - obviously not).
I'm reluctant to go through your post with a fine comb.
You don't seem to have much information about the UK with much truth in it. Northern Island and Scotland (oh, and Wales - your knowledge of the UK doesn't quite stretch to knowing the countries that make up the UK, does it?) all have devolved governments, meaning assemblies of their own. What's this crap about 'forceful' government of Scotland? Watched Brave Heart a few too many times have we? Give me one example of when the MODERN British government has used force of arms in Scotland. As for ethnic minorities in government - there are some, not sure whether the demographic proportions are fulfilled though. Equal opportunities are very much part of the modern UK government, and have to be as our part of the EU (and the rest of the developed world).
Northern Island. Don't get me started on that. It's a very complicated place, and can't be summed up with 'British government stretches muscles against people'. The population of NI is deeply divided; there are catholic/protestant and Loyalist/Republican tensions at work, and neither factions are mutually exclusive.
NI terrorism. Who do you think was supplying a great majority of the arms to the IRA in the first place? It was some of your comrades, with a romantic notion that the tiny (no, TINY) minority proportion of NI were somehow fighting against a tyranical crown. No doubt harking back to the days of the US rebellion. I've got news for you. They weren't. They are now a bunch of drug-pushing gangsters who want to hold onto that power.
As for releasing prisoners, they are on probation - do something wrong and they are put back inside. For good. They are released as part of the Good Friday Agreement - reconciliation is the keyword here.
Regarding the black issue in the States - it was in reply to mietla's post about wanting black death rather than socialism. I was trying to make the point (obviously failing) that the alternative to socialism can be equally bad - ie capitalism and how it didn't work for the black population in the states. This wasn't some anti-american comment, and I agree, ethnic minorities in the UK get a raw deal a lot of the time; I'd already stated that I wasn't comparing the sins of Britain with those of the US. So why did you decide to a historical atrocity trawl? I could cite as many examples of US disgrace - BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT I'M TRYING TO DO. You seem to look at what Britain did 100-1000 years ago against a modern background. What is unacceptable and criminal now, was not only allowed back then, but was the everyday norm. Like witch-burning, slavery, anti-semitism etc. Everyone was doing it. Empire building was what the old world was all about - French, Spanish, Dutch, all the European nations. Thankfully, times have changed.
As for slavery, we are as guilty as you are, and I wasn't trying to say otherwise.
Big Business. I was talking about big business EVERYWHERE including the UK; thanks for the example of the oil companies here. I certainly think it is more of a threat to freedom than the much extolled 'Big Brother' theories.
Coming back to sarcasm, the part of StSanta's post I was congratulating was the part about socialism; the first part is obviously a jest and I am insulted that you take me for such a fool that I would not realise this.
The first paragraph of my post was meant to be SARCASTIC - the 'little country' part wasn't a serious put down of your country, I did leave kindergarten many years ago, believe it or not.
As for mietla's post - I just angrily jumped on it without thinking what was written, sort of what I think you may have done. Let me apologize to mietla again.
Sure there are socialist organisations in the US trying to overthrow the government, like there are hyper-patriotic gun-toting neo-nazis who want a return to segregation. They are generally called extremists, and I'm sure that the average patriotic american citizen would want them labelled as a representation of their opinion. In the same way, the average socialist would not want extreme organisation's representing them.
Why did you construe everything I said as an attack on the States?
BTW, the Royal Family is there for show only and has no real power anymore. We just keep it to make money out of foreign visitors and to be a little different.
[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 09-18-2000).]
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Dowding,
I went back over your post that I used in my post. I did that to see if I misunderstood what you were saying. Your brand of dry humor at times leaves me way behind.
I still do not see where you were being anything but serious in most of your post. I took the "little country" as it was intended, a jibe and a non serious comment, after all you used the smileys in it.
The "whiter than white" phrase is not one I was able to take into the context I think you meant.
yep I am sure I am somewhat ignorant of your country. All I know about it is from history books and the media. I tried to reply to your post on a point by point basis. I was rather angered by YOUR post. I felt YOU didn't have a grasp on the US either. I did think you were using your post to support a sense of shall we say "superiority". It seemed to me, in reading your post that you were saying Britain was bad in the past and shouldn't be judged by it but you were using this oportunity to do just that to the US.
On a final note. I don't buy the comment that things are that "complicated" in Britain and in Europe and that I don't understand anything that is going on. Murder is still murder irregardles of the murderer's political beliefs. The crime should not be pardoned over them either. Believe it or not, I think things are "complicated" here and you don't have a clue either. Does that make us even now? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Mav
[This message has been edited by Maverick (edited 09-19-2000).]
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Dowding,
I'm trying to figure out where this became a "who's country is worse" contest here.
The nearest I can figure its when you cited your country as an example of how nice it can be with bans on guns.
I believe you later used the term "whiter than white". It seems to me that you feel others are not allowed to feel this way about their country... only yours.
The truth is, every country has its own set of problems to deal with. I don't know of a single country that has it all figured out yet. Somehow, through all of that... non-US citizens still find the time to figure out our country's problems for us.
Please... clean up the dog-crap in your own back yard before you start criticizing someone else's.
AKDejaVu
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Let me say it again, just to be clear. I was NOT saying that Britain has some superiority over the States - I was trying to say that you CAN'T say 'my country is better than yours'. It makes no sense to do so.
I was referring to the 'capitalism being better than socialism' remark made by mietla when citing the black rights movement - I took the US as example here because the US is seen as one of the most capitalist states on the planet. That is all. I was not making the UK to be some sort of utopia in comparison to the states; to do so is simplistic in the extreme.
AK - I don't believe the UK is 'whiter than white' - if you think I do then perhaps you should re-read my post again. Surely saying, and I quote from my post, "no country can really claim to be whiter than white" clearly illustrates my thoughts on the issue? Do you think that I don't include the UK in that statement? Give me some credit...
Let me just interpret what you're saying here, AK. Basically you think that no-one has the right to give their views, just because they don't happen to live in your country? I thought you would welcome some objective views on what is clearly an emotive subject. As I have said elsewhere, the US has been active for many years in influencing the views in other nations. And before you jump down my throat and accuse me of slating your country, so has Britain.
Gun control is not an issue in Britain, and I just thought people might be interested in how it works over here. What a mistake to make, and I'm sorry you can't seem to accept that guns aren't such a problem issue somewhere in the world.
On a final note, Maverick, the situation in NI IS very, very complicated. It's the reason it has taken 70 years and 3000 deaths to come to some sort of compromise. It wasn't just the incompetence of politicians that has led to the troubles - if it was a simple problem, a simple solution would have been found a long time ago. I, myself, have doubts about releasing convicted murderers early - but the current situation is a compromise. The vast majority of people want peace, not at any price, but peace nonetheless.
Sure it's a complicated issue over there Maverick - that I realise. And I'm no expert. But that stupid car sticker annoyed me and just seemed to trivialise the whole issue.
Anyway, it looks like we cleared up some mutual misunderstanding, mav. Nuff said. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 09-19-2000).]
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What is the problem with you guys?don't you think the proliferation of guns in your society has something to do with your high murder rate? I've heard arguments about self-protection, protecting your children etc etc, but because guns are so common in the states, people have begun to accept them. Crminals routinely use them. In Britain, use of firearms is frowned upon by the crim. fraternity; especially if used against our unarmed police.
This is what I was refering to by "whiter than white" dowding. This is what started this little pissing contest (well before mietla's remarks).
Does your country have criminals? What do those criminals do? Do those criminals hurt or steal from people? Or is there some kind of honor system amongst your criminals that prevents them from actually doing harm to a person or their property. You come off soundling like your criminals have higher morals than our citizens.
Like I said before... clean up the crap in your own backyard first.
AKDejaVu
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Sure we have crime, hence the part that says "crim. fraternity".
I said what I said because its true - armed crime is very highly punished in this country - and as such criminals would rather commit a crime unarmed than armed - they get a lighter sentence that way. That was my point - it wasn't opinion, it was fact. As for the acceptance of guns - that is also true. Sorry if you don't like it.
"You come off sounding like your criminals have higher morals than our citizens." I never said that, and it is clearly fundamentally flawed; a criminal by definition has been ostracized a community and therefore cannot be viewed to be morally superior relative to the citizens. And besides, I'm sure our crminals are just as slimy as yours. A criminal is a criminal wherever you are, I should think.
You haven't answered any of the points made in my last post. Especially to the part about why I made the original comments; being pissed off about the sticker and wanting to give my opinion based on where I come from. What are your thoughts on the picture, AK?
[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 09-19-2000).]
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Dowding,
I agree, we have cleared up a few points. I have another question though.
Why does the sticker "piss you off"? Is it not permissable to piss off a liberal? Is it the fact that guns can be purchased that pisses you off? Should non liberals be prohibited from purchasing a gun? I'm missing something here. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/confused.gif)
Mav
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Oh yes they are. Capitalism means a personal freedom and prosperity, socialism and or communism (don't tell me you can stop at the socialism) means a destruction of a nation for decades.
Socialism is not communism. Examining the word socialism, you'll find that it has several definitions, one that is in direct contrast with the idea of capitalism (i.e state ownership of property), and one that is not.
This one goes straight against capitalism:
socialism
n 1: a political theory advocating state ownership of industry
2: an economic system based on state ownership of capital [syn: socialist economy] [ant: capitalism]
The following one does not, as it does not state state ownership of capital or industry:
Socialism \So"cial*ism\, n. [Cf. F. socialisme.]
A theory or system of social reform which contemplates a complete reconstruction of society, with a more just and equitable distribution of property and labor.
I.e take a capitalist base, and add redistribution of wealth to a small or big degree. The question is how large this redistribution of wealth can be before it upsets the capitalistic system to such a degree that it cannot function.
I got plenty of freedom, as much as you do, yet I live in a comparatively socialistic country.
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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"Trespassers will be shot. Survivors will be shot again"
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I said what I said because its true - armed crime is very highly punished in this country - and as such criminals would rather commit a crime unarmed than armed
Ah.. but you didn't say that. Of course, you are now. But this is part of the ever evolving justification for everything.
So.. wich is it.. the fact that you have tighter gun control? Or the fact that you have stricter laws against criminals to use guns? Oh.. wait.. now you can say "both". The truth is, criminals are criminals no matter where you go or what tools you give them. They'll murder, steal, rape and destroy. Saying its worse if they use a firearm is like saying its ok if they only use a knife.
I'm looking at your original post here Dowding. Not the mutation it has become since then. You know.. the one were you talk about the criminal fraternity (brotherhood?) uniting in a comon anti-firearm belief? Do they lobby?
Especially to the part about why I made the original comments; being pissed off about the sticker and wanting to give my opinion based on where I come from.
Pissed off? Guess that was a totally unbiased opinion then?
The bumper sticker has nothing to do with you or your country. I fail to see why you should have any right to "get pissed off" about it. Your country is different than ours. Its time that you and yours learned to accept that.
AKDejaVu
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I may have not said that, but that is what I meant - I obviously didn't make it clear enough, and for that I apologize.
Both.
As for 'common belief' - I guess it is, criminals generally want to avoid hefty sentences when the plan goes wrong. Common sense, I guess.
In case you haven't noticed, we have had run-ins with nutters who massacre kids without remorse. It just doesn't sit very well with me when people trivialise an issue just for a cheap laugh. And besides, it's the 'women needs a man, like a ....' style of humour - it's always seemed unoriginal to me.That's all.
Mav. - you are reading more than I think you can, into what I said. The 'piss off a liberal' thing was not what I was referring to.
Well said, StSanta, couldn't have put better myself.
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OK Dowling, but a word of advice...
Getting pissed off about a bumper sticker is about as silly as trying to sum of life on a 4"x12" peice of plastic.
Bumper stickers in and of themselves, are disqualifed from every being taken seriously.
AKDejaVu
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Depends whats on the bumper sticker, surely?
Racist, right-wing remarks, for instance would not simply be ignored by people.
Anyway, I can't be arsed with this discussion anymore, so thx for discussion. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Maverick, you said:
"Canada the government dedicated to schizophrenia. Linked to the British Crown yet fights amongst themselves about speaking French. "
Read a book please, geez.
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Squadron Leader, Igloo.
C/O RCAF 411 Squadron - County of York (http://www.trueorigins.net/411rcaf)
"Problems cannot be solved with the same awareness that created them" - Albert Einstein[/i]