Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Reschke on February 03, 2006, 03:39:40 PM
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Just a few parts I am going to get with tax money for a new system. I finally get to reclaim my computer since the wife's embroidery business is doing so well. I don't need a monitor or speakers since I have headphones and my existing speakers are staying with her computer for now.
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1 Thermaltake Tsunami VA3000BWA Black Aluminum ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail $108.99
1 ASUS A8N-SLI Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail $118.00
1 BFG Tech BFGR78256GTOC Geforce 7800GT 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail $319.99
1 Thermaltake Silent Purepower W0014RU ATX 480W Power Supply - Retail $59.00
1 AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ Manchester 1GHz FSB Socket 939 Dual Core Processor Model ADA4200BVBOX - Retail $358.00
1 CORSAIR XMS 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered Dual Channel Kit System Memory Model Twinx2048-3200c2pt - Retail $233.00
2 Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 ST3120813AS 120GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM $85.00 x 2 $170.00
1 Logitech Cordless Desktop MX3100 967513-0403 2-Tone PS/2 RF Wireless Standard Keyboard Mouse Included - Retail $113.99
2 PLEXTOR Beige SATA DVD Burner Model PX-716SA/SW - Retail $119.99 x 2 = $239.98
1 Creative Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS SB0350 7.1 Channels PCI Interface Sound Card - OEM $75.00
Total = $1,795.95
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Why not get an Opteron 165 and overclock it, say yourself about $100
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IMHO everything looks good except the mouse.
Wireless mouse = batteries = go out at the worst time = Plus saw the mouse and special batteries seem to be requiered = ?????
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Only change I'd make is drop 1 of the Seagates for a Western Digital Raptor SATA drive. Split it into 3 partitions. One for Operating System, one for your swap file, and one for game installs. It is a noticable difference, twice as fast as the Seagates. Keep the second Seagate for storage and big software that doesn't need the performance (office, whatever else).
I'd drop the wireless keyboard & mouse. That's just personal preference though. I hate needing extra batteries, and I refuse to have a mouse weighed down by them... but I'm a twitch gamer at heart.'''
Maybe, depending on the price gap, jump to the 512mb version of that video card.
That's it though, that machine will be really fast as you've got it spec'd :)
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IMHO you're definately on the right track and thinking price/performance along the same lines that I do, but I'd make a few small changes.
I'd get one larger drive instead of multiple smaller ones. Cut the failure rate in half and no worries about getting RAID working. I've done the RAID thing and it's fast, but probably not worth it. 300 gig SATA is a pretty good price/capacity point right now.
Also do some research into the dual core cpus and your favorite games. Some people are reporting weird problems with certain games with any dual core cpu, so they end up having to disable one core in bios to run some games. Since this is for gaming only and most games only use one cpu, consider spending the same amount of money (or less) on a higher clock speed single core cpu.
I'd get one dual-layer DVD recorder, and a second cheaper cd/DVD drive since it's unlikely you'll ever burn 2 DVDs at once. You also specified beige drives... There are equivalent black drives matching your case for the same price out there, so shop around.
I'd use some of the money saved on getting only one DVD-R drive and single-core cpu on a soundblaster X-Fi card instead of an audigy2.
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Dual core systems and nVidia are having an AH issue at the moment, but one guy in Tech Support says his is running fine. Still, some people, including Skuzzy, have admitted major problems with dual core/nVidia cards.
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Dual core, nVidia + Windows 2000 works flawlessy.
Problem is the change they made in the XP thread handler, it loses track of threads when switching from one core to another.
Mine has been running SWEEEET. (Windows 2000)
Ditch the Corsair 2x1Gb and go for Mushkin instead. Couldn't get the Corsair 2x1Gb kit to work on my system at CAS2 only 2.5 .
The Mushkin 2x1Gb kit (blue heat spreader - HP I think) dropped in and worked perfect 1st time. (Was cheaper also).
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820146425
$229.99 - $35 rebate = $194.99
Timings - 2-3-2-6
If your into overclocking its also possible to drop it to CAS2.5 loosen the timings and get it to DDR500 speeds. (see the reviews in the newegg link)
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Trade in the corsair memory for Patriot PDP with XBL technology and save a good chunk of change their! Same performance and warranty at a way better price! I've been using it and I have actually seen better overclock times with it than with the Corsair, Kingston and Mushkin. Also keep the multiple hdd's and do as Indy stated. you may have a better chance for failure but at least you can have all your info backed up in case one drive craters and if you only have 1 drive that goes bad itll cost ya a lot more for data recovery on that drive than it would for all three drives to begin with. I also recommend getting the AMD processor! Asus would also have to be my first choice in motherboards followed by Abit and then Gigabyte. The AMD processor has better performance, is easier to cool and overclock and youll save enough money that you can put towards another drive or more ram! Ditch the logitech mouse keyboard combo and get a Razer Copperhead or Diamondback mouse and just get you a logitech wireless or wired keyboard. Of course this is all just a recommendation and the final verdict will depend on you and what you really want!:aok
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Personally I like my wireless keyboard and mouse right now. The one I am looking at doesn't need replacement batteries like AA. Its a Lithium Ion and may need replacement in a few years but since 99% of this stuff is all junk inside of 5 years now I may stick with that. I had a Razer mouse way back when they first came out and loved it. I didn't know they were still in business; but then I haven't really checked either.
As for the motherboard its a toss up between Asus and Gigabyte for me. No real troubles with either of them but its been a couple of years since I built so now is the time to start looking for that 2-3 year upgrade cycle. My last one was on the tail end of the A64 skt 754 chips and so far its worked flawlessly. The only hiccup is a little over heat issue caused by my case and thats because of those d*** wide HDD cables. I can't wait to roll into SATA.
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As someone said earlier, drop the 2 drives and go for 1 Raptor. Ive had a raid0 setup with 7200 rpm drives , and to me my raptor feels about the same as far as performance goes if not better . As far as the corsair goes , mine has been really good to me , it will run a 265 fsb with relaxed timmings .(2.5/4/4/11) It does need some extra volts thou to be stable, default is 2.65v for xms. @2.85 its fine and corsair warrantees to 2.9. GL
38
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Coolermaster TAC 101 silver
ASUS A8NE
AMD 3700+
SB Audigy 2 ZS
2 GB OCZ Platinum
Seasonic 430 powersupply
Seagate Barricuda 250
LG DVD burner
Logitech G5 gaming mouse
Gforce 7800GT CO
Kept my IBM PS2 keyboard and my samsung 900NF monitor, bought an acer 17 lcd and a cheap logitech keyboard to go with my old pc to the kids.
I have had it a week or so. If I was to do it again I would seriosly consider the optitron 165. 120 more but great Overclock apperently. And I would go for a bigger seasonic. The next one up has a dedicated Video card powerline that I would have liked to have.
The highlight of the thing is the mouse, case and powersupply. The gaming mouse is just increadable. The case-PS combo is very nice and quite and runs cool from what I can see.
Jsut got my new chair and the desk is on order.
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Coolermaster TAC-101 case
(http://www.shopbot.com.au/i/2004/8/7602_160.jpg)
Thermaltake Tsunami series case
(http://www.overclockercafe.com/Reviews/cases/Tt_Tsunami/pics/1001.jpg)
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Originally posted by 38ruk
As someone said earlier, drop the 2 drives and go for 1 Raptor. Ive had a raid0 setup with 7200 rpm drives , and to me my raptor feels about the same as far as performance goes if not better . As far as the corsair goes , mine has been really good to me , it will run a 265 fsb with relaxed timmings .(2.5/4/4/11) It does need some extra volts thou to be stable, default is 2.65v for xms. @2.85 its fine and corsair warrantees to 2.9. GL 38
Raptors rock. They're twice as fast as any other SATA drives on the market. Tom's Hardware has a good explanation as to why, but I'd have to dig up the link. There's more to it than just being 10k RPM. I've done comparisons head to head using the exact same machine, only swapping the HD's, and the load times were considerably faster in World of Warcraft, The Movies, Doom 3, and everything else I threw at it. In fact, it makes it a frustrating experience when I'm gaming on my laptop.
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I will look into those Raptor drives. The only reason I went with the Seagates is based on my past usage of them. I haven't used many WD drives but have liked the ones I used in the past.
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I have had it a week or so. If I was to do it again I would seriosly consider the optitron 165. 120 more but great Overclock apperently
Have you tried to clock that 3700? Mine is stable @ 3003MHZ (273X11) . But i run AH @ 2915 (265X11) until my new ram comes in , with this corsair i have to use a 5/6th divider to get there . But at allittle over 800mhz the overclock on the 3700+ san deigo (2200mhz stock) has suprised me. I'd say this is a great overclocking chip. Now i am on water , but on air i ran it 24/7 @ 2805 (255X11) with out any core voltage added . My 2 cents 38
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Ya they are very simular cases. I considered the Thermatake.
I havent looked at OCing my 3700 yet.
Did I mention I love the mouse?
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Updated to this. I am probably going to go with a different mothoerboard and an FX-55 chip. I have had a little boost to the yearly salary pop up here that is going to make this a much easier purchase. I am thinking about buying the motherboard and processor today since they are running a special on those as a combo. If you buy the processor today they are tossing in the motherboard for free.
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1 Thermaltake Tsunami VA3000BWA Black Aluminum ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail $104.99
1 ASUS A8N-SLI Premium Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
$166.99
1 BFG Tech BFGR78256GTOC Geforce 7800GT 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail $319.99
1 Thermaltake Silent Purepower W0014RU ATX 480W Power Supply - Retail
$59.00
1 AMD Athlon 64 FX55 San Diego 1GHz FSB Socket 939 Processor Model ADAFX55BNBOX - Retail $811.00
1 mushkin High-Performance 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered System Memory Model 991434 - Retail $229.99
1 Western Digital Raptor WD740GD 74GB 10,000 RPM Serial ATA150 Hard Drive - OEM $155.00
1 Logitech Cordless Desktop MX3100 967513-0403 2-Tone PS/2 RF Wireless Standard Keyboard Mouse Included - Retail $113.99
1 PLEXTOR Beige SATA DVD Burner Model PX-716SA/SW - Retail $119.99
1 LITE-ON Black IDE DVD-ROM Drive Model SOHD-16P9SV - Retail $19.99
1 Creative Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS SB0350 7.1 Channels PCI Interface Sound Card - OEM $75.00
$2,175.93
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http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/athlon64-fx57_8.html
There is a good benchmark graph for the amd 64's. The fx-55 is a good performer , althought the 4000+ isnt that far behind in most games , i beleive the 4000+ is about half the price of the fx 55 thou . All in all the 55 is great cpu , im sure you will be happy with your new build . 38
Edit , the x-fi extreme music is a nice upgrade over the audigy2. I paid 129 for mine a month ago, you might want to check the price difference between the A2zs, and xfi . I had a standard audigy2 , and the x-fi really performs much better . 38
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IMHO ..........
Wireless keyboard and mouse could be a BIG mistake. Known several people that had them and everyone of em in the end hated em.
The batteries thing was just part of it.
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I like that build... everything except for the wireless keyboard & mouse :) Just personal preference though. Everything else looks great. I'm a big fan of the WD Raptors and Mushkin ram. I've had great customer service from Mushkin on all 2 occasions I needed it in the last 6 years. Had a stick fail, ran memtest, emailed the results, had a new stick in my mailbox the very next morning. Only Skuzzy has rivalled them in getting my problem fixed immediately :)
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Well I haven't had any problems with the current Logitech wireless combo I have now. I like having fewer wires cluttering up my desk area especially with two boys (9 and 2 1/2) and a wife that likes to toss crap on the desk.
As for the Raptors I am purely going with what was suggested here. I would have liked going with the 3.0 Gb SATA drives but with the recommendations I got here that sent me to them and the Mushkin. On the CPU side I just couldn't pass that deal up today. My wife is gonna kill me but that mobo/CPU combo lands here at the office by Monday and my bonus package for sales last year should hit within the next month. Thats one reason I went ahead and tossed the money down on that board and CPU.
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There is a new raptor drive out now that is better/faster/larger than the older 74 gig ones. Get that one instead.
As long as you're spending $800+ on the cpu, get the 512 meg version of the 7800 GTX.
Get an x-fi sound card instead of the audigy2.
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Well if your wife is gunna kill ya anyways , might as well go all out ! Get the 150 raptor , X-fi sound, a 512 GTX would be nice . While your at it get 2Xraptors (Raid) and 2Xgtx's (SLI) , Really make it worth the argument hehe 38
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Well as I said I got a killer deal with the CPU/Motherboard combo. Go here to check it out.
http://promotions.newegg.com/AMD/AMD_Nvidia/020706/index.html
On the SLi I don't play anything that needs it and I doubt I ever will. Should I decide to go that route then I can pick up one cheaper in a year or so and make it happen.
They didn't have that big Raptor when I started down this road. Now I can step in and order that one as well.
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I agree with Reschke, rather than get 2 SLI based vid cards, get the best one you can. Later, when the price drops on that card, you can pick up a clone and throw it in.
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Im not running sli either, for basically the same reasons . It nice to know down the road that there is always an option to add another . Thats a good deal from newegg.
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I am now very leery of BFG vid cards. Their overclocked 6800 GT caused me intermittent boot problems (boot failures) which, over 6 months, grew so bad that the machines won't start at all. I wrote to BFG, and they admitted that their cards are known to cause this problem on some computers. They also admitted that they didn't know what was causing the problem, and that I was stuck with it til they figured it out. Not bloody likely.
The machines have been returned for credit, and I am now awaiting a third from a different manufacturer with a different vid. card maker. Incidentally, the machines had different motherboards. Both had ABIT AMD 64, one with the VIA and one with nVidea NForce chip, so it wasn't a motherboard problem as I originally had thought.
Anyhoo.. if you get intermittent boot failures that increase in frequency, troubleshoot the BFG vid card first (or get one from another manufacturer to begin with).
eh?
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I have the same card in my system now and haven't had any issues related to that card.
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Small comment: I *HATE* cases that hide the front from my access. By that I mean I *LOATHE* them with all my might. When I want to open my CD drive I don't want to have to swing open a stupid door/flap/panel to do it!!!!
Same goes for power buttons and/or floppy drives (which I currently don't have installed) and front panel access.
It's a gaming rig, not a beauty pageant contestant. Get a case that actually lets you get to the stuff you need to get to.
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Originally posted by Krusty
Small comment: I *HATE* cases that hide the front from my access. By that I mean I *LOATHE* them with all my might. When I want to open my CD drive I don't want to have to swing open a stupid door/flap/panel to do it!!!!
Same goes for power buttons and/or floppy drives (which I currently don't have installed) and front panel access.
It's a gaming rig, not a beauty pageant contestant. Get a case that actually lets you get to the stuff you need to get to.
I have a front door on my case , you make it sound like you have to use a combination to get into it lol.
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Originally posted by Krusty
Small comment: I *HATE* cases that hide the front from my access. By that I mean I *LOATHE* them with all my might. When I want to open my CD drive I don't want to have to swing open a stupid door/flap/panel to do it!!!!
Same goes for power buttons and/or floppy drives (which I currently don't have installed) and front panel access.
It's a gaming rig, not a beauty pageant contestant. Get a case that actually lets you get to the stuff you need to get to.
Translation krusty hates so its bad .:D
but seiously krusty some people like the look .Its all a matter of taste.
Me personaly i have a plane black box.
Bronk
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reschke I am happy that the BFG 6800GT isn't causing you any problems. For me, it was a continuous, worsening nightmare that lasted six months and messed up two computers. None of the replacements that BFG sent worked any better.
FWIW I have a Thermaltake case with a swinging front door. It's a gaming rig, and a gaming case for me, because on the front of the door is an LED readout of your ambient temperature, an alarm which turns the fluorescent blue readout to red if the temp goes above your preset values, and one knob at either side of the readout so that you can turn on and adjust two additional fans to cool the unit down if you see the temperature creeping up. You can read these data and calibrate while you are playing Aces High. Those Thermaltake cases are fabulous.
:aok
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Like I said, small comment :)
Take it or leave it :aok
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Gotta have the door on my case. I have a 2 year old son that likes to push to many buttons on stuff just for the hell of it and I learned my lesson with some Euro coins in a CDRW and floppy drive that he thought they should go inside of. So it has a locking front now and the next one will as well. But I do appreciate your comment. I used to think like you about the case.
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Originally posted by Krusty
Small comment: I *HATE* cases that hide the front from my access. By that I mean I *LOATHE* them with all my might. When I want to open my CD drive I don't want to have to swing open a stupid door/flap/panel to do it!!!!
Same goes for power buttons and/or floppy drives (which I currently don't have installed) and front panel access.
It's a gaming rig, not a beauty pageant contestant. Get a case that actually lets you get to the stuff you need to get to.
Like someone has already said I like the locking door!!!!!
Just takes an additional second perhaps to open it.
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Reschke, you didn't mention kids lol! Fair 'nuff, your need for a PC to keep working supercedes my practical need and want to get to my CD drives (lol)
Ugh... I thought it was bad when floppy disk metal cover plates kept ripping off in an old PC once, I can't imagine coin stuck in CD-ROMs!!!
Although, I have taken them apart before, it's just not very fun.
Speaking of cases I'm curious... I tried looking for a case with good cooling options back when I upgraded, but had to settle. I know that some P4 cases have a side vent over the chip, so that direct air can be sucked in. I removed the duct, added a 80mm fan, and replaced the duct (personal supercharger, if you will) but I was wondering if cases for AMD chips like the one you mentioned have similar vents/slots to let more air in.
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Yes they do. In fact that is one reason I picked that case. Take a look at the black case in that picture and that is it. It arrived here today along with my brand new FX-55 and mobo. Now everything else is going to come rolling in over the next month or so due to having won the war but lost the all at once battle with the wife.
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Alienware is a good choice (http://www.alienware.com/)
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Originally posted by RAIDER14
Alienware is a good choice (http://www.alienware.com/)
Holy price gouging batman . They have nice systems , but they cost an arm and a leg .
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Yeah for something comparable to what I priced at Newegg I would pay over $1000 more going with someone like Alienware or another company like them. I remember a guy buying an alienware when I was building computers for a living and he brought it into the store for some late night gaming and my system built by me was nearly $2000 cheaper (this was 6+ years ago) and faster in every benchmark. Same exact Intel based system in my computer as his.
Thanks but no thanks. I can troubleshoot my own hardware and software conflicts a hell of a lot easier than waiting for some jacknut in India who doesn't speak coherent english to tell me to clear the cookies and reboot.
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Just as a warning from my recent shopping experience. Alot of the reviews I read on these motherboards with the onboard SATA are saying that Windows XP doesnt recognize the SATA drives if you are doing a first time install. You have to download a BIOS update to get Windows to recognize the SATA drives. I'd recommend you check reviews on your board, and if necessary go to the manufacturer website and look for an available update before beginning the install, and setup a boot disk and flash it before anything else. Maybe yours wont need it, but check first! Save you alot of headaches during the setup. I'd also check for updated LAN drivers, and have them ready. I've seen several boards that have flaky drivers on the motherboard driver CD.
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They usually come with floopy disk with SATA drivers on.
When the Windows setup screen 1st appears press F6.
You'll be asked to put the drivers disk in.
Installs OK from there.
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ASUS A8NE was fine.
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Originally posted by wrag
IMHO ..........
Wireless keyboard and mouse could be a BIG mistake. Known several people that had them and everyone of em in the end hated em.
The batteries thing was just part of it.
Logitec makes a great wireless mouse and keyboard combo.
It uses bluetoothe technology works great throughtout the whole house.
Bluetoothe is the only way to go. Besides, you just place the mouse in its cradle each night to recharge the batteries.
Rechargeable batteries solve many problems. :)
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Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
I'd also check for updated LAN drivers, and have them ready. I've seen several boards that have flaky drivers on the motherboard driver CD.
I have an ASUS P5P800 (or maybe a 800E or something) with a built-in gigabit lan, which is listed as a Yukon brand gigabit port. This port was causing full-sysyem freeze-ups, like the screen just locks on the frame it last showed. The system fans all went to idle. I checked the temps (left the case open) when this happened and the vid card was boiling hot, CPU barely even warm. Had to hard boot every time. There was talk of many different causes for this on many different forums, but only ONE forum suggested it was the LAN port.
I had originally installed the CD-ROM provided drivers for this Yukon gigabit port. I used windows update several times and updated it again and again (maybe 3 times in a 3-4 month period). The lockups got WORSE. So when I read about possible driver problems I went back to the ones on the CD-ROM. The problem is, I had been having problems since I installed it.
I popped in my spare PCI 100MB lan card and went into BIOS and disabled the onboard LAN, and VIOLA no more problems. Shoddy hardware, no set of drivers worked on it, not even the ones included on the mobo disc!!
So if you get ASUS do NOT repeat NOT use the Yukon gigabit lan, if it has one included. I don't know how common it is, or if it's rare, but a word from one that has already suffered extensively on the matter: Use a dif lan card.
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I have always avoided the onboard stuff. Always buy a card and turn off the onboard stuff!!!
Wish the manufactureing people would offer bare MB without all the onboard stuff. Way too often the onboard stuff doesn't work right or is too slow.
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Originally posted by wrag
I have always avoided the onboard stuff. Always buy a card and turn off the onboard stuff!!!
Wish the manufactureing people would offer bare MB without all the onboard stuff. Way too often the onboard stuff doesn't work right or is too slow.
Yup, getting ridiculous amount of onboard stuff nowadays.
I just think it's an excuse to fit a $5 chip on the board and bump the price by $50.
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Agreed with wrag and kev!
If I wanted a crappy-arse interated video, sound, network, modem, and gameport mobo I'd but a $300 E-machine and replace it every 4 months.
Any one item goes bad (and they will) and the entire system is shot.
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I have noticed over the last few years that it is getting harder and harder to locate any motherboards without something onboard like sound and/or LAN. I wish they would go back and at least offer some boards without those items integrated. It sure would cause less headaches in my opinion. At least back in the days when sound, LAN and video could be purchase separately instead of already integrated on the motherboard you could at least troubleshoot things without disabling stuff in the BIOS.