Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: FiLtH on February 04, 2006, 02:14:20 AM
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We did a run on hangers tonight. We bombed so poorly we dropped down and strafed them down , out of frustration, due to our incompetence.
To our surprise the popped back up in about 30 seconds to 1 minute. My feelings on this, is that the AvA is supposed to be more like the war than the MA. I think...
1.Hanger strength should require 10k-15k lbs per hanger to kill.
2. Hangers should stay down for 1 hour.
This would make it so to be effective, bombers must attack in large groups. Also, it would make fighters really want to protect the bases. And by it being down as long as it took to plan, travel to, bomb and rtb, would seem a little more worth the trip to the bomber guys.
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ok then mr fun policeman let me ask you this please? did B17s et al attack front line fighter bases? That job was mostly reserved for jabos and occasionally B25/26 A20/26. keep in mind that one sortie from the boofers could shut down the arena for the night. I think the set up is correct. you did your mishun you got your pointzes and the furball continued. or was it your intent to have your fun at the expense of 90% of the players? I would agree that perhaps we should turn strat on for those that appreciate the fine art of HE destruction on an industrial scale. However if we are going to do that we need to activate wurzburg for the axis and gimme something with 30mm and lots of them too. we'll see how many sorties you fly into the sacred cartoonland with JG54 decked out as ZG-1. :D
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Originally posted by storch
keep in mind that one sortie from the boofers could shut down the arena for the night.
This is particularly so on our current map. The influx of new players is very welcome, but some naturally bring with them a sense that they're supposed to win the war by resetting the arena. This past week I have noticed a lot of radar bombing. Granted that in The Real War it would have been a good thing to do that, in the arena it ends up detracting from playability because people have difficulty finding fights.
Having said that, the 30-second hanger regeneration does surprise me. Must remember to check it out later.
My brain hurts.
- oldman
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I think we need to realize that this isnt the AvA furball arena. They give your the MA for that, especially when there is an FT in it. They have a Dueling arena for 1 on 1 or squad on squad fights. The AvA arena should be kept as realistic as possible.
When we flew Boston missions for the past couple weeks in formation knowing full well we were dogmeat, dont you think maybe we realized we were doing so to promote the arena, and to fly like in ww2?
Flying between A15 and A46 on the deck, continuously is just making it a fyrball arena. As far as Im concerned, if you lose a base, because you were furballing instead of defending, its your loss. There are enough arenas given to the horde of "Im paying good money, I wanna have fast cheap fun" crowd. Let this one play out.
PS the formations we had going lastnight...nobody would have had a chance...no matter what gun.
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Originally posted by FiLtH
When we flew Boston missions for the past couple weeks in formation knowing full well we were dogmeat, dont you think maybe we realized we were doing so to promote the arena, and to fly like in ww2?
Flying between A15 and A46 on the deck, continuously is just making it a fyrball arena. As far as Im concerned, if you lose a base, because you were furballing instead of defending, its your loss. There are enough arenas given to the horde of "Im paying good money, I wanna have fast cheap fun" crowd. Let this one play out.
The bomber attacks have generated some of the best fights in this setup, and everyone involved appreciates the bomber pilots' efforts. In the spirit of your observation that this arena is supposed to be realistic, though, I'm not sure what it is that you expect to achieve with any bomber raid in 1942. Certainly you shouldn't be expecting to conquer Europe - that won't come for a couple more years (...er...a week or so?), and it won't be achieved by airpower acting alone. Being able to capture bases in this era is not realistic at all; on the other hand, bomber interception and fighter v fighter combat is very realistic.
All of which is to ask, I guess: what does a bomber pilot expect to achieve in a historic arena?
- oldman
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Originally posted by Oldman731
Certainly you shouldn't be expecting to conquer Europe - that won't come for a couple more years (...er...a week or so?), and it won't be achieved by airpower acting alone. Being able to capture bases in this era is not realistic at all; on the other hand, bomber interception and fighter v fighter combat is very realistic.
All of which is to ask, I guess: what does a bomber pilot expect to achieve in a historic arena?
- oldman
I'd have to agree with you.
Base capture in 42 did not happen until June 1944 that would be
Operation Overlord (for those who are history impaired that would be the invasion of Normandy or D-Day):aok
(http://www.paperlessarchives.com/DDAY1.JPG)
(http://www.paperlessarchives.com/DDAY2.JPG)
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Originally posted by gear
I'd have to agree with you.
Base capture in 42 did not happen until opperation Sea Lion(for those who are history impaired that would be the invasion of Normandy or D-Day):aok
Man, I must be really history impaired...I always thought that Sealion
was the code name for the German invasion of England that never
happened and that Operation Overlord was for the Normandy invasion.
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Originally posted by Rino
Man, I must be really history impaired...I always thought that Sealion
was the code name for the German invasion of England that never
happened and that Operation Overlord was for the Normandy invasion.
I think you are most probably, definately correct. :)
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Yeh iwas thinking axsis frame of mind.thx for the corretion
:aok
http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/wwii/dday/omaha.aspx (http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/wwii/dday/omaha.aspx)
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I have no interest in capturing any territory in the AvA. I want the dates to reflect ownership.
What are the bombers to be used for, it there are no targets worth hitting though. What are the penalties for letting bombers reach an airbase, if hangers regen in 1 minute? Radar? Yaaayyy.
The fun of bombing is getting there, and getting the bombs out..and saying there, we made it in now lets get out. But if the bombs have no real effect...then the bomb crews will have no interest.
Then you wont have a true ww2 airwar. You have a historically setup fighter combat arena. One that mainly flies between A46 and A15, to allow the quickest dogfights, usually between 7k and the deck with a few exceptions.
I love to fly fighters. But at times I enjoy bombing missions. But I want them to mean something. If Im gonna be a chewtoy, I want to have a chance at peeing in their Cheerios if we get thru, and making them feel like "Next time we better stop them!".
If both sides would plan missions, the bomber and intercept of it...alot of fun could be had. Unfortunately there are too many folks that want to do as little as possible, and soak up as much of their style of fun, while squashing other's types of fun to make it work on a regular basis.
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At least enable strat so there is a reward for battling a formation of buffs through the swarms of fighters and flak besides a thank you and pat on the back.
Wouldn't disable anything, just keep fights closer to home for a while as there is a temporary shortage of fuel and ammo. Flak and troops dont really matter in this setup.
Would also give the interceptors a little added incentive to claw their way up after those 25-35K buff formations. :)
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A lot of words to express a simple whine. Succinctly put:
“It’s no fun to bomb if I can’t cause grief, waaaa”
Just tryin to help :cool:
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Why do MA players post here?
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I think KONG's post covers that as well. :D if you mean KONG he's an AvA regular and a long time member of JG54. :aok
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Originally posted by storch
ok then mr fun policeman let me ask you this please? did B17s et al attack front line fighter bases? That job was mostly reserved for jabos and occasionally B25/26 A20/26. keep in mind that one sortie from the boofers could shut down the arena for the night. I think the set up is correct. you did your mishun you got your pointzes and the furball continued. or was it your intent to have your fun at the expense of 90% of the players? I would agree that perhaps we should turn strat on for those that appreciate the fine art of HE destruction on an industrial scale. However if we are going to do that we need to activate wurzburg for the axis and gimme something with 30mm and lots of them too. we'll see how many sorties you fly into the sacred cartoonland with JG54 decked out as ZG-1. :D
:p w00t
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I guess Im in company that prefers the type of arcade combat that you could just as easily setup head to head rather than taking advantage of the many players we could organize in here.
Id pay extra to have an arena that catered to the style I prefer, and let the rest play in the MA-ish type arenas. Unfortunately that would probably be overrun in time by the masses who prefer 5 minute transits to battle, unrestricted flight, and nothing to bar their die/spawn/die play.
It may sound arrogant, but its the product of frustration. Frustration of those without imagination, or patience to make the game feel more real.
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Originally posted by FiLtH
Why do MA players post here?
Who's the MA'er posting in here?:confused:
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Originally posted by FiLtH
I guess Im in company that prefers the type of arcade combat that you could just as easily setup head to head rather than taking advantage of the many players we could organize in here.
Id pay extra to have an arena that catered to the style I prefer, and let the rest play in the MA-ish type arenas. Unfortunately that would probably be overrun in time by the masses who prefer 5 minute transits to battle, unrestricted flight, and nothing to bar their die/spawn/die play.
It may sound arrogant, but its the product of frustration. Frustration of those without imagination, or patience to make the game feel more real.
A lot of words to express a simple idea:
“I am superior to all that don’t think like me.”
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I think all Filth is saying is to have some sort of incentive to even take a bomber up. Base capture may be a little much but have some sort of reward for doing so. I find it fun to intercept or escort buffs but no one is going to take them if it doesn't even make the slightest difference. Causing grief? Anyone can do that by shooting another player down. Maybe we should disable all damage and we could fly around like in the TA. You know when you got a kill when you see the hit sprites. No need to cause all of this 'grief' by blowing the guys plane up.
I don't want a formation of 20 bombers coming in and leveling all my bases either but I'm sure there can be a compromise.
Talk about some unprovoked flames... geez.
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So...don't hit the hangers.
Take out the ord and fuel this would stop the bombers and jabos as well as limit the range due to low fuel at said bases.You can also blind them by taking out the radar.So the hangers are not the only worth while targets.:aok
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Shoot me down I am resurrected immediately. Bomb down hanger it comes right back up.
Call it grief parity.
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Sound like a loop to me lol
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Originally posted by KONG1
Shoot me down I am resurrected immediately. Bomb down hanger it comes right back up.
Call it grief parity.
That's why I mentioned a compromise. Still unprovoked flames for a mere suggestion. The RPS was shot down the first million times it was brought up but here we are playing it.
Something can be discussed and not written in stone.
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Im just trying to get a reason to go out and bomb, and a reason for the defenders to bother going after them.
What better way than to make the effects of bombing do something to bump up the passion?
Lastnight we had B17s attack a town. I gave our location on ch200, and tried to play it up a bit. Although there were 11 enemy up...only 3-4 of them bothered attacking us. If the bombers could close bases for an extended period of time, Im willing to bet, less would be dogfighting at the Pas de Calais, and instead be hunting us down. I want those guys across the channel to HATE us for what we do to their bases. I want them to come up and fight us.
We just need to change our thinking from the MA style to this, which imo is something fun. Sorry if I came across as "My way, or the highway", but I have a low tolerance for banging my head on the wall.
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You were 30k 70 miles from the main fighting. You want people to shoot at ya fly where the action is.
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The main fighting? See thats where we dont see eye to eye on this arena. To me the battle should be where the offending force intrudes on the defenders airspace. To you, its the shortest distance between bases. We just dont see this in the same light, so lets leave it at that.
BTW ..I alerted you guys 1/2hr before we upped...also said at one point, we'd be a few more minutes so if you need fuel, you better rtb and refuel. Gave our exact location as well. On the second flight our shoesize. And we were 20k both missions.
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I agree completely, I was the “offending force intruding” English air space along with several others. Why weren’t you defending?
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no one is going to climb to 30k to be targets for your 350mph buffieness until we get 30mm that evens out the lame buffieguns. try coming in at 20k and 250mph that is a more realistic bomber altitude and speed as it was during the war years.
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Didnt I say we were 20k? And we are traveling at 45 manifold. Our speed is somewhere around 250. Its fine if you dont want to engage us. I want to organize with willing people..dont like twisting arms.
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Flith -
Don't let the twits drag you down....just keep organizing missions...and come to the MA and holler that you're gonna do it... :) I'll be there...Those JG54 and 1/2 guys are good targets. They are real vocal when they get popped too.... I like it! lol!
Honestly, some incintive for destrutcion of a base is a good idea. If light bombers suprised a base and destroyed all the planes on the ground...well that base would be outta commision. Since you can reup continuously, killing FHS should have some impact.
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Originally posted by Waffle BAS
Flith -
Don't let the twits drag you down....just keep organizing missions...and come to the MA and holler that you're gonna do it... :) I'll be there...Those JG54 and 1/2 guys are good targets. They are real vocal when they get popped too.... I like it! lol!
Honestly, some incintive for destrutcion of a base is a good idea. If light bombers suprised a base and destroyed all the planes on the ground...well that base would be outta commision. Since you can reup continuously, killing FHS should have some impact.
That remark makes me home sick... for waxxing people with that tpye of attiude.:aok
I'm a former Jg54 squady and thier an orginized group.If you ever flown with them you'ld know that.but if ypur on the rieciving end you'll know that too.
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Mr Filth, besides being egocentric and confused about the use of apostrophes, you also seem confused about your own feelings.
“Its fine if you dont want to engage us”
“I want those guys across the channel to HATE us”
?
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Originally posted by storch
ok then mr fun policeman let me ask you this please? did B17s et al attack front line fighter bases? That job was mostly reserved for jabos and occasionally B25/26 A20/26. keep in mind that one sortie from the boofers could shut down the arena for the night. I think the set up is correct. you did your mishun you got your pointzes and the furball continued. or was it your intent to have your fun at the expense of 90% of the players? I would agree that perhaps we should turn strat on for those that appreciate the fine art of HE destruction on an industrial scale. However if we are going to do that we need to activate wurzburg for the axis and gimme something with 30mm and lots of them too. we'll see how many sorties you fly into the sacred cartoonland with JG54 decked out as ZG-1. :D
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/bassetleader/ww273.jpg)[/URL]
Darn don't you hate it when they take photos. The early B17 runs were also against airfields. Note that this an B-17E.
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Kong frankly I dont really know you...so your opinion, though appreciated...doesnt really matter to me. So feel free to say what you want lad.
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hence why I wrote mostly as opposed to having said never. that wouldn't be a far east operation would it? IIRC the B-17E didn't see much use against the LW did it?
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Originally posted by wonton
Talk about some unprovoked flames... geez.
some just do not want to discuss things , they rather make themselves look like a Lemming, wonton..........
TC
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Originally posted by TequilaChaser
some just do not want to discuss things , they rather make themselves look like a Lemming, wonton..........
TC
yep
No worries Filth. Your post is being discussed elsewhere:aok
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Originally posted by FiLtH
appreciated...doesnt really matter to me
Make up your mind already:)
I re-read this whole thread looking for flames, all I can find is waffle calling somebody “twit” and TC calling wonton “lemming”. I don’t know, maybe “mr fun police” is a flame. All seems rather tame to me.
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Edit: It's being discussed by the proper folks now, moving on.
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Originally posted by Fencer51
Darn don't you hate it when they take photos. The early B17 runs were also against airfields. Note that this an B-17E.
Heh. I'm pretty sure that that's a photo of the strike on the FW plant at Marienburg on October 9, 1943.
- oldman
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Out of the first 27 missions that the 8th flew in 1942, 10 involved attacks on airfields in france (and only 3 of those 10 were carried out with Bostons, the rest were made with B-17s and B-24s).
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Originally posted by Oldman731
Heh. I'm pretty sure that that's a photo of the strike on the FW plant at Marienburg on October 9, 1943.
- oldman
Heh Heh yep.
The first big raid by the 8th Air Force was on a Focke Wulf plant at Marienburg. Coming back, the Germans were up in full force and we lost at least 80 ships-800 men, many of them pals.
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Originally posted by wonton
It's being discussed by the proper folks now
I am relieved to know that the PROPER “folks” are discussing this. I’m sure their thoughts will be more CORRECT than the INFERIOR ones expressed in this forum. :aok
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Originally posted by KONG1
I am relieved to know that the PROPER “folks” are discussing this. I’m sure their thoughts will be more CORRECT than the INFERIOR ones expressed in this forum. :aok
Good to hear, Kong!
- oldman (I'm glad I'm a Beta. I wouldn't want to be an Alpha.)
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Originally posted by KONG1
I am relieved to know that the PROPER “folks” are discussing this. I’m sure their thoughts will be more CORRECT than the INFERIOR ones expressed in this forum. :aok
Now you're getting it.
And what the hell is wrong with an Alpha Oldman?????????:furious
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Field hangars now have a downtime of 60 minutes. It also takes 25 troops to capture a field. :)
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Originally posted by Mister Fork
Field hangars now have a downtime of 60 minutes. It also takes 25 troops to capture a field. :)
Nice, let's see how it plays out.
Thanks staffers.
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Can the hardness be upped a bit on the hangers? 2 players in b17s could really wipe out the front in no time, especially if they augered and re-upped, with no regard to rtb. Could hangers be hardened to 10,000-15,000?
And yes thank you!!
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I was on Filth's raid last night and we were at 20k and 45 manifold.
Also, when I bomb solo, I usually come in at 18k or so.
I'm not sure who u see at 30k, but it was not me or Filth's organized raids.
Plus, if I fly higher I won't get to shoot down storch :)