Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Sloehand on February 06, 2006, 06:01:50 PM
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I posted this to HiTech in the Technical forum, but thought I'd apraise the community at large.
I was just killed in a Tiger on an enemy base after scoring exactly 40 full kills plus some number of assists. The Tiger cost around 61 perkies, when I checked in hangar, my points were listed as (-59.59).
Now I did not expect to recover all points for the Tiger (and I know spawn camping is a sin), but 40 kills on a base where I was overwhelmed by enemy GV's should not give me a net of 1.41 points. If I haven't misunderstood the indicated points, then this is so wrong on so many levels.
Is this normal? I don't think so as I've killed only 7 or 8 panzers in a Tiger before and gotten two or three times that many points. So what happened? Any ideas?
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It is normal and not a bug.
HiTech
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LOL Spawn a tiger @ 42 points. Never start engine. Squaddie hollers for help. Despawn. Lost tiger. Lost 43 points.
No idea how the system works.
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Originally posted by hitech
It is normal and not a bug.
HiTech
Well, can you explain the reasoning? I've gotten more points in a Tiger from much fewer kills.
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i believe that the cost of buying one doesnt relate to the cost of losing one.
you pay the price indicated to have the right to use one, then lose whatever cost is at the time of death.
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IMO, spawncamping shouldn't net a .01 of a perk.
Karaya
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
i believe that the cost of buying one doesnt relate to the cost of losing one.
you pay the price indicated to have the right to use one, then lose whatever cost is at the time of death.
That while not a bug IMO just plain isnt right
You should only loose what ever it cost when you got it.
And the pendulem wings both ways.
You buy a tiger at say 45 perks and your country #s go up causing the perk price to rise to say 70, You should still only loose 45. NOT 70
By the same token you buy a Tiger for 45 perks and your country number drops causing the perk value to drop to say 20 and you get killed, you still should loose 45 perks NOT 25
Whatever you guy it at should be the amount you loose it at.
The way it is now is just plain wrong
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lolz perks.
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Tiger is worth 5 ENY, Panzer is worth 30 ENY. If you kill a Panzer with a Tiger that would be worth 5 divided by 30 which equals .16667 perks. There is also the "Perk Bonus" value, which is fluid and depends on the difference in numbers between the countries rosters. So lets say when the above kill was made the Tiger's country had the most people on, and the "Perk Bonus" was .79
So:
(5/30)*.79=.131667 perks
Lets say you killed 40 panzers under those conditions. .131667*40= a whopping 5.26 perks.
But you likely didnt kill all panzers, and the higher the ENY value of the vehicle you killed, the less perks you would earn.
Thats basically how it works. It depends on the ENY values, and what your countries perk bonus is at the time.
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and then dying makes u lose perkies...
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Yea, forgot about that....
So that previous 5.26 perks times the 'death/crashed penalty' (.25) would be 1.3166 perks
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In other words, no matter how many kills you made, you were on an enemy base at the end of your run and you DIED, which is the lowest score mulitplier there is. You're lucky you were on the plus side of the board at all. 99% of the time, you'd have LOST points on that run. Be happy with what you got.
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ohhh someone just got PWNED with MATH! BURN!
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5 / 35 * 40 = small numer
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The Tiger is a perkie money pit, bring on the Wirbelwind. :aok
(http://www.wargamer.com/Hosted/Panzer/flak06.jpg)
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Well, based on the point scoring formula everyone described, the score may have been correct... and stupid. I don't care where you die or what the ENY is (most of us have complained about that at one time or another), killing the enemy (alot) should have a more reasonable reward attached or it invalidates the whole system of scoring. 1.41 points for 40 kills is not IMO anywhere near the planet Earth in being reasonable. The formula is badly scewed and should be changed. Won't be, but should.
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... it invalidates the whole system of scoring.
Nonsense.
If you want to earn high or maximum perk points then you must up aircraft / vehicles with a high ENY value and kill things with a low ENY value and land your kills.
It's explained thoroughly in the AH2 help file.
As Mudr explained the Tiger has ENY of 5. You wouldn't have earned that many perks even if you landed your kills. You think there might be some encouragement built into the perk system for folks to fly higher ENY aircraft / vehicles?
I mean 40 kills or so in a PIV would have been something. In a Tiger, especially with vehicle supplies, it's really no big thing.
My ex-squad mate Bradys5 once landed 50+ kills in an M8. Do the math on that...
:p
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Originally posted by Sloehand
killing the enemy (alot) should have a more reasonable reward
Try this perspective -
In the UK you can hire some guns & beaters & spend a day on the moors, maybe bagging 10-20 game. Set u back ~ £400 ish.
You've killed 40 gvs for virtually nothing and virtual points.
The reward is in the killing (mwuahahaha).
Stop bean counting & enjoy.
(Of course u can't eat a panzer tho') :)
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Originally posted by Sloehand
Well, based on the point scoring formula everyone described, the score may have been correct... and stupid. I don't care where you die or what the ENY is (most of us have complained about that at one time or another), killing the enemy (alot) should have a more reasonable reward attached or it invalidates the whole system of scoring. 1.41 points for 40 kills is not IMO anywhere near the planet Earth in being reasonable. The formula is badly scewed and should be changed. Won't be, but should.
it is stupid to be penalized for deaths?
someone mentioned in this thread what i think bears repeating
So that previous 5.26 perks times the 'death/crashed penalty' (.25) would be 1.3166 perks
try flying with a p51, getting 3 kills, then dying, and see how many perks you earn. should you earn things dying? if so why bother even trying to land ever? just make air spawns and when we are out of ammo we can auger, then pop back @ 10k right away in a new plane. high score of the night gets to put his initials on the startup screen for the next day.
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Originally posted by Mustaine
should you earn things dying? if so why bother even trying to land ever? just make air spawns and when we are out of ammo we can auger, then pop back @ 10k right away in a new plane. high score of the night gets to put his initials on the startup screen for the next day.
This might be cool. Skuzzy, how hard would it be to implement?
- oldman
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The scoring is ok with me.
the only thing I dont think is right is upping in a Perked whatever at say 30 perks then dying and loosing 40 perks
Smaee thing if you ap a perked whatever at 30 perks and die and loose only 20 perks.
Whatever you buy it at should be whatever you loose it at minus whatever score you have aquired
the way it is now you are either punished or punished less severely depending on circumstances you have no control over. which is how many players your side has in comparison to the other sides.
Which to me doesnt seem right
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HiTech has stated many times dred that the takeoff cost is the final cost you pay if you die. it does not flucuate, if you have film of it doing that, i'd email HTC. a few times i thought it did something like that was because the roster was not refreshed on my FE.... try that always before taking up a perk ride. goto roster, and refresh, then goto hangar to see cost.
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I'll haveto recheck that out then. But there are alot of times If I take a perked item and it seems that it cost me more then its advertised price LOL
As for filming it.
There are alot of things I'd love to film and send if I could get the film viewer to work right.
Half the time if I want to view a certain portion of a film it seems to hang up in my machine and I just give up and turn it off out of disgust
Maybe Im just all thumbs with it but to me it doesnt seem very user friendly
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DRED: It works exatly as you describe it should. I.E. Price is fixed at spawn time.
HiTech
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No offense, but I asked about that a while back, and you said the same thing.
I'd been losing the price at time of death/bail rather than at spawn (e.g. spawn 262 for 150pp, -220pp @ death).
I can't try and see for myself now, though, so ignore this if it's really been fixed since.
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many times i have upped a perk ride at cost x=100 then got some kills and then died in perk ride and have lost x=100+ perks going to have to test this with film to confirm.
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Originally posted by hitech
DRED: It works exatly as you describe it should. I.E. Price is fixed at spawn time.
HiTech
Respectfully ... I beg to differ.
Many times I have lost more perks, for a Tiger, than what was orginally displayed in the hanger ... also, with multiple kills, which should have helped offset the initial cost, which in turn would lower the lost perk amount to be less than what I paid for it.
That is why I NEVER take a Tiger into the field ... If I get pinged ... its on pavement and I can tower out without losing more perks than what I paid.
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Perk rides are charged at time of lose not what they were when you upped the perk ride. So if your side vastly outnumbers the other side your perk ride cost more plus, as you should know, you score less perks.
So...if your perk ride cost 50 perks and sides were fairly even all's well but your in it for say 40 min taking you into prime time when your side outnumbers all others. That perk ride is now 75 + perkies if you get killed and you suffer further by not collecting great perks in return for the ENY ballencer.
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Originally posted by LYNX
Perk rides are charged at time of lose not what they were when you upped the perk ride. So if your side vastly outnumbers the other side your perk ride cost more plus, as you should know, you score less perks.
So...if your perk ride cost 50 perks and sides were fairly even all's well but your in it for say 40 min taking you into prime time when your side outnumbers all others. That perk ride is now 75 + perkies if you get killed and you suffer further by not collecting great perks in return for the ENY ballencer.
Thats what I was saying but.
Thats not what HT just said.
Originally posted by hitech
DRED: It works exatly as you describe it should. I.E. Price is fixed at spawn time.
HiTech
Now, who ya gonna beleive?
Me?
OR Hitech?
;)
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Thats what I was saying but.
Thats not what HT just said.
Now, who ya gonna beleive?
Me?
OR Hitech?
;)
Umm not in my world. I'v upped Tigers and at time of death they have cost more.....even with a bunch of kills.
With all due respect HTC better check Gv's out. Can't say I have noticed the same in planes just Tigers.
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It works as I say it does. Have verified it more than once. But some people do not wait to see what the real cost is (i.e. wait for roster to populate) before they take off so how much they loose is not what was displayed on there client when they spawned. The cost is based on the real population on the server at spawn time.
And as to verifing GV's again, Im not going to, I did verify it the very last time this exat topic was started about only 1 point for a tiger after killing lots of gv's. Go search the bug fourm and you will see the outcome.
HiTech
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Pardon me HITECH,but that makes no sense at all,that people dont wait for the roster to populate.It is continually changing,and from the time you click N,E,S,W,it probably wouldnt change more than 5-10 people at the very extrmem and thats including server burps that dump people just as you spawned which would be a very rare circumstance. I lost a 262 that cost 308 points at take off and lost a total of 368 unpon death.If what you say is true than I would lose more points because more people came into the arena after I upped my 262.
Jus ttrying to figure it out as well.
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Originally posted by VIC
If what you say is true than I would lose more points because more people came into the arena after I upped my 262.
....or lose less.